pissed at Tivo

[Knave]

Yeah so this is really because of my own stupidity for not reading the fine print last year, but it's also a case of "we got your money and there's nothing you can do about it"...

I transferred my Series2 lifetime over to a new HDTivo that I bought last year. I put my Series2 on a shelf and forgot about it...until I saw a $13 charge on my credit card bill. Apparently they decided I wanted to continue paying for service on a Tivo that hadn't called in for 12 months. They customer service rep agreed that my old Tivo hadn't phoned home in a year, but said tough luck on the refund.

In my mind, Tivo had a reputation as one of the "nice companies" ... now I realize it's just a marketing gimmick.

------------------

Between hulu.com and netflix, I've been using my Tivo much less. I'm seriously considering dropping the whole mess & ebaying my box at this point. Well at least they didn't dig up my front yard and cut a bunch of wires on the side of my house like Time Warner did when I got cable installed...

[magnus]

Ok but you did agree to it. So, not sure why you're pissed at Tivo. When I did the transfer like you did.... the Tivo CSR was VERY upfront about that. I thanked them for the free service and put an outlook reminder for 2 weeks before the year was up. Then I let a friend of mine have the unit. They got the year and then decided to get their own service.

[moonscape]

i'm surprised the CSR, seeing it hadn't called in for a year, didn't just reverse the charge and cancel your subscription.

even though you agreed, they were within their rights, that's tight. really tight.

that's a case when i'd definitely ask for a supervisor. as a customer, i'd be looking for some common sense on this on the part of tivo.

[steve614]

Call Tivo back and ask to cancel again. Tell them you no longer want the service and that you will be disputing the charge with your CC company.
See if that changes their tune.

[ThaddeusMcP]

so to that same logic if u don't use your phone for a month the phone company should comp that? TiVo won't know about your one with with over 10,000,000 Dvrs in the field. Get over it

[Phantom Gremlin]

Is there a double standard here from TiVo?

Isn't it true that if I own a "lifetime" box and it doesn't call in for a year, that TiVo considers the box "dead"?

So, by that same logic, why isn't the OP's box "dead"?

[janry]

Yeah so this is really because of my own stupidity for not reading the fine print last year, ...

Exactly. I did one of the lifetime transfers last year. I read the fine print. It was a PITA, but I called and cancelled service on the old unit before the year was up. Not sure why you are pissed at TiVo since admit your stupidity. This isn't a nanny state yet.

[magnus]

The OP could have called back in a month once the transfer was actually done and got the box turned off right then and there.

[dtobey]

This exact same thing happened to me. Sure, I must have agreed to this somehow, but I didn't remember the fine print, and ALL the evidence leads to a misunderstanding. Any reasonable company would have seen that.

Another issue is that their website is misleading. When you log in and check your account, which I did as soon as I discovered the credit card charges, you'll see that the "names" you give to your TiVo machines actually go with the license, not the unit. Yet, the web site is so misleading it makes it look like the names are with the units. So, when I logged in, it looked as if they never switched the subscription once the one free year was up(I had used the "one free year when you transfer your lifetime to the Series 3 promotion").

So I called to complain about the charges and the fact that they never swapped my subscriptions. They insisted the database is correct because the serial numbers matched the machine. But honestly, who memorizes their TiVo serial numbers? I named my second TiVo "Series 3" or something like that, but when the subscriptions swapped after the year was up, the name went with the subscription, and therefore, the names swapped.

So, even though I must have agreed to the subscription charges and therefore technically on the hook for several months of unused service, they never admitted that their database was misleading. It's still wrong, by the way. You would have thought they'd correct this problem with their web site once it was brought to their attention.

[ah30k]

What the heck is going on in this forum lately. It seems like there are a flood of new members with one or two posts flaming TiVo when it is the poster that is clearly the confused one? The flood seems to be much more than one would expect from random frustrated customers here and there.

[berkshires]

Is there a double standard here from TiVo?

Isn't it true that if I own a "lifetime" box and it doesn't call in for a year, that TiVo considers the box "dead"?

So, by that same logic, why isn't the OP's box "dead"?

Six months.

[ah30k]

Y...Apparently they decided I wanted to continue paying for service on a Tivo that hadn't called in for 12 months. NO, you decided you wanted to continue because you never canceled.

TiVo is not in the mind reading business.

[ah30k]

Is there a double standard here from TiVo?

Isn't it true that if I own a "lifetime" box and it doesn't call in for a year, that TiVo considers the box "dead"?

So, by that same logic, why isn't the OP's box "dead"?Only from a multi-unit discount perspective (to prevent fraud). If you expect a company to proactively go out and stop reveue streams for customers who they think might not want their service, I'd hate to you have you running my business.

[ewilts]

In this case, both sides can be considered right.

The OP should not have been charged by TiVo. Common sense dictates that since an S2 is useless without a subscription, and the S2 is no longer calling in, that it's no longer in service. If there's an email address on file on the account, TiVo should have had a system in place to do an automatic email (say 30 days in advance) to the OP saying the subscription was about to expire and would be automatically canceled (or renewed) if there was no action by the OP.

The OP could also have taken responsibility for deciding to cancel himself, like many of us did. I remembered to cancel my S2 contract before it ran out.

TiVo, the company, was within its legal rights. However, sometimes common sense should trump legal rights.

What TiVo did was legally correct, but just stupid.

[gthassell]

Try sending a PM to TiVoJerry. He may be able to help you.

Worst case, you are no worse off than you are now.

[killzone]

Sorry guys, the OP is correct here. If the Tivo service is set to auto bill after the year is up, they should be sending out an invoice prior to the charge.

Just ask yourselves, is the autobill a convenience for the end user or a means to rip off people who forgot to cancel before the free year is up? If it's the former, then simply crediting for the month that clearly no service was rendered, should not be a big deal for Tivo.

[ah30k]

Sorry guys, the OP is correct here. Killzone said so, end of discussion. Mod please close thread.

[ZeoTiVo]

Is there a double standard here from TiVo?

Isn't it true that if I own a "lifetime" box and it doesn't call in for a year, that TiVo considers the box "dead"?

So, by that same logic, why isn't the OP's box "dead"?

no double standard - The lifetime sub is not discontinued. The lifetime sub is simply not allowed to count anymore toward an MSD rate on other boxes. All that is also in the TOS. fi you hook the box up to start using it again, at worst all you have to do is call TiVo and the box will show activated again.

Should TiVo stop subs on all boxes that stop calling in? at what point do the stop it? I have some 6.95 a month subs still and at on point the old box did not call in for 4 months until I got another box to put in its place. I had no desire for TiVo to stop that sub.


When has TiVo ever sent out an invoice for a sub that is already in place.

to the OP - push back if the 12$ or principle is important to you. Posting here will do little to help.

[rainbow]

well, at least you originally had the option to transfer your lifetime of series 2 to a new set. some of us would be extremely happy if we had been offered that option at all.

[berkshires]

If the lifetime sub doesn't call in after six months your whole account gets rearranged so you start paying $12.95 on some tivo and $9.95 on all your other tivos, incl. ones that used to be $6.95.

[Knave]

Exactly. I did one of the lifetime transfers last year. I read the fine print. It was a PITA, but I called and cancelled service on the old unit before the year was up. Not sure why you are pissed at TiVo since admit your stupidity. This isn't a nanny state yet.

Here's my one rebuttal.

I have never paid Tivo a monthly fee since I purchased my first unit. I used my credit card to pay for my TivoHD + the lifetime transfer fee. I never gave Tivo permission to keep my credit card on file or to charge against it again -- I suppose in today's online-everything marketplace this is UNFORTUNATELY just assumed.

As for the one poster who said that it would be so hard for Tivo to keep track of this record with 10,000,000,000 DVRS in the field... they sure don't have trouble emailing me when they've got some new marketing campaign. A *DECENT* company would email me when my account changes status from no-billing to auto-billing.

[ah30k]

I never gave Tivo permission to keep my credit card on file or to charge against it again .I'll bet TiVo can show you where you did exactly that.

[ZeoTiVo]

I never gave Tivo permission to keep my credit card on file or to charge against it again --

A *DECENT* company would email me when my account changes status from no-billing to auto-billing.

You gave TiVo permission when you accepted the lifetime transfer offer that included the one year of free service on the old DVR. I clearly read in that offer that it would go to a monthly sub at the end of the year.

actually Tivo probably shows a bill for every month and then a credit right after it. Might even be on your credit card bills.

Yes, best customer experience would be that TiVo contacted you and gave you a heads up to cancel - but that clearly was not part of the deal you agreed to. The deal clearly stated that the old DVR would automatically revert to a regular monthly sub at the end of the year.

Speculate away on the reasons TiVo structured the deal that way, the cynic in me also says 'because they make more money that way, duh' but at the end of it all- that is the deal you agreed to

[scandia101]

For once in your life, take responsibility for yourself.
I couldn't imagine going through life not paying attention to the world around me or to what I'm doing and acting like a victim all the time because I just didn't care to know what the facts were.

[ZeoTiVo]

For once in your life, take responsibility for yourself.

hey I was just replying to the guy, sorry I did not tell him you were being sarcastic the first time around.

[rainbow]

hey I was just replying to the guy, sorry I did not tell him you were being sarcastic the first time around.

I think Scandia101 was replying to the OP - that that person stop blaming others for their non-attentativeness to the details @ the time they did the lifetime transfer. ;)

[berkshires]

For once in your life, take responsibility for yourself.
I couldn't imagine going through life not paying attention to the world around me or to what I'm doing and acting like a victim all the time because I just didn't care to know what the facts were.

He did...

Yeah so this is really because of my own stupidity for not reading the fine print last year

[TexasGrillChef]

Yeah so this is really because of my own stupidity for not reading the fine print last year, but it's also a case of "we got your money and there's nothing you can do about it"...

I transferred my Series2 lifetime over to a new HDTivo that I bought last year. I put my Series2 on a shelf and forgot about it...until I saw a $13 charge on my credit card bill. Apparently they decided I wanted to continue paying for service on a Tivo that hadn't called in for 12 months. They customer service rep agreed that my old Tivo hadn't phoned home in a year, but said tough luck on the refund.

In my mind, Tivo had a reputation as one of the "nice companies" ... now I realize it's just a marketing gimmick.

------------------

Between hulu.com and netflix, I've been using my Tivo much less. I'm seriously considering dropping the whole mess & ebaying my box at this point. Well at least they didn't dig up my front yard and cut a bunch of wires on the side of my house like Time Warner did when I got cable installed...

Put in a Dispute to your Credit Card company for the charge. They will charge back TiVo. When you dispute the charge to yoru credit card company explain to them what you tried to get TiVo to do & the fact you hadn't used this service on your TiVo in over a year.

The Credit Card company WILL give you credit and WILL charge TiVo back.

All of this is perfectly legal, and is outlined in your Credit Card User Agreement. AND BY FEDERAL CREDIT CARD law.

You can dispute any charge on your credit card bill, even for services or products that you tried to return and they refused to return and were 100% satisfied.

Thats the only way you can get it done. However, is it worth $13 to do so?
If you have "CAPITOL ONE" as your credit card company. It is as easy as clicking on a link and doing it all online.

TGC

[steve614]

well, at least you originally had the option to transfer your lifetime of series 2 to a new set. some of us would be extremely happy if we had been offered that option at all.

The last time Tivo offered the lifetime transfer for a S2 deal (IIRC around the time the original S3s came out), your lifetime sub had to be older than 4 yrs (mine was only 3 yrs. then :().

[nirisahn]

I don't know of any company that does anything differently. When a cable package is up, they just start billing regular price. They don't warn you that you're package ends the next month. Same with a cell phone. They don't let you know when you're contract ends. In fact, there are a lot of services that auto-renew unless you let them know otherwise, and they don't warn you that you're coming to the end of your contract term.

Call customer service again, be really nice and polite and ask them if they'll refund the charge on the cancelled subscription. Keep bumping it up the ladder, and stay nice and polite. I've generally found that I can almost always get customer service people to do what I want by always staying polite, but insistent. Sometimes you have to give up for the day and try again the next day and hope you get a different CSR.

[magnus]

That's just not right. They agreed to the terms and Tivo fulfilled their end if things.

Put in a Dispute to your Credit Card company for the charge. They will charge back TiVo. When you dispute the charge to yoru credit card company explain to them what you tried to get TiVo to do & the fact you hadn't used this service on your TiVo in over a year.

The Credit Card company WILL give you credit and WILL charge TiVo back.

All of this is perfectly legal, and is outlined in your Credit Card User Agreement. AND BY FEDERAL CREDIT CARD law.

You can dispute any charge on your credit card bill, even for services or products that you tried to return and they refused to return and were 100% satisfied.

Thats the only way you can get it done. However, is it worth $13 to do so?
If you have "CAPITOL ONE" as your credit card company. It is as easy as clicking on a link and doing it all online.

TGC

[jrm01]

I don't know of any company that does anything differently. When a cable package is up, they just start billing regular price. They don't warn you that you're package ends the next month. Same with a cell phone. They don't let you know when you're contract ends. In fact, there are a lot of services that auto-renew unless you let them know otherwise, and they don't warn you that you're coming to the end of your contract term.

.

Several years ago I ordered the Comcast Tiple-Play with all channels for $159 per month. On the 13th month I noticed that my bill had gone up to $209. I called to cancel and the said they would allow me to continue for one more year at the old rate. I put a reminder in my Outlook calandar for 12 months hence. The next year it was to go up to $219 per month. I called to cancel and they said: OK, one more year at the old rate. They were going to autorenew if I hadn't watched for it.

[lacsap]

Just want to thank the OP for the post - I looked at my account and saw that my S2DT was about to go to a month-to-month after the 1 year service from the lifetime to HD transfer. In my situation the S2DT was not on the shelf, still in use. Got another year prepay MSD.

[SueAnn]

A *DECENT* company would email me when my account changes status from no-billing to auto-billing.

You were never a "no" billing customer you just has a $0 balance.

Are you the same person who calls in during month 13 when accepting 12 months no interest and complain about the interest on your account?

[berkshires]

I don't know of any company that does anything differently.

...

Call customer service again, be really nice and polite and ask them if they'll refund the charge on the cancelled subscription. Keep bumping it up the ladder, and stay nice and polite. I've generally found that I can almost always get customer service people to do what I want by always staying polite, but insistent. Sometimes you have to give up for the day and try again the next day and hope you get a different CSR.

It is a good general lesson to remember that most situations like this need to be tracked by the customer. Politeness often helps, and trying another CSR often helps.

[Knave]

For once in your life, take responsibility for yourself.
I couldn't imagine going through life not paying attention to the world around me or to what I'm doing and acting like a victim all the time because I just didn't care to know what the facts were.

Wow, I haven't logged into the forum for a week or so, so I missed this jewel of a reply.

Scandia: I'm very sorry if your dog died this morning and put you in such a bad mood. If that's not the case, try to take life a bit less seriously & you're heart will thank you (low blood pressure == longer life!).

[magnus]

And some just don't take things seriously enough.... maybe that's why you're in this predicament to begin with.

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

When I transferred my lifetimed S1 to my S3, I informed the CSR that my S1 died, and I refuse to allow my credit card to be billed once the free year on my S1 ended. Unfortunately, they did charge, and my wife (who pays the bills) asked me after about 10 months why there were two TiVo charges.

Long story short, it took me quite some time, and a few calls, but the final call to TiVo's headquarters finally got things taken care of. The first CSR told me they would take care of everything, the second CSR told me that it is TiVo's normal policy to continue to charge a "dead" TiVo until the customer notices. I told the final "Supervisor CSR" (I forget the actual title) to go back and play any recordings they have to see I'm being honest.

They finally credited my account.

[samo]

the second CSR told me that it is TiVo's normal policy to continue to charge a "dead" TiVo until the customer notices
It is a time proven scam that has been used by subscription services for all kinds of things (record clubs, book clubs, magazines, etc). Get a first one for some small amount or free and then if you forget to cancel they bill your credit card until you notice. In TiVo's case it also helps to show on a quarterly reports that they lost less subs than the actual number. Win-win situation even if it pisses the customer.

[magnus]

Always ask for a case number.

When I transferred my lifetimed S1 to my S3, I informed the CSR that my S1 died, and I refuse to allow my credit card to be billed once the free year on my S1 ended. Unfortunately, they did charge, and my wife (who pays the bills) asked me after about 10 months why there were two TiVo charges.

Long story short, it took me quite some time, and a few calls, but the final call to TiVo's headquarters finally got things taken care of. The first CSR told me they would take care of everything, the second CSR told me that it is TiVo's normal policy to continue to charge a "dead" TiVo until the customer notices. I told the final "Supervisor CSR" (I forget the actual title) to go back and play any recordings they have to see I'm being honest.

They finally credited my account.

[lazaino]

When I upgraded to the HD and gave my S1 to my mom, I tried to do the upgrade without putting a CC on it, but they would hear nothing of that so I gave them a previously stolen card number with a date in the future. When we noticed that charge on the card on file for the HD account they rather quickly gave refunded the money. They rarely check anything but the checksum on a card that won't be charged for a year and that worked perfectly for this.

Ira

[DCIFRTHS]

Yeah so this is really because of my own stupidity for not reading the fine print last year, but it's also a case of "we got your money and there's nothing you can do about it"...

I transferred my Series2 lifetime over to a new HDTivo that I bought last year. I put my Series2 on a shelf and forgot about it...until I saw a $13 charge on my credit card bill. Apparently they decided I wanted to continue paying for service on a Tivo that hadn't called in for 12 months. They customer service rep agreed that my old Tivo hadn't phoned home in a year, but said tough luck on the refund.

In my mind, Tivo had a reputation as one of the "nice companies" ... now I realize it's just a marketing gimmick. ...

Is the $13.00 the only charge you will be receiving, or are you locked into another year of service?

[jrm01]

When I upgraded to the HD and gave my S1 to my mom, I tried to do the upgrade without putting a CC on it, but they would hear nothing of that so I gave them a previously stolen card number with a date in the future. When we noticed that charge on the card on file for the HD account they rather quickly gave refunded the money. They rarely check anything but the checksum on a card that won't be charged for a year and that worked perfectly for this.

Ira

Great solution. I wonder how many laws (even in CA) you broke in doing that.

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

Always ask for a case number.

Trust me, I referenced my case throughout the multiple discussions. They never questioned or doubted me when I said I've called before.

[Adam1115]

so to that same logic if u don't use your phone for a month the phone company should comp that? TiVo won't know about your one with with over 10,000,000 Dvrs in the field. Get over it

That's not the 'same logic'.

If the OP had canceled his telephone service because he was getting new better telephone service, but they told him he'd keep is existing line for FREE for a year since he was paying so much for the new phone service. He never used it, and obviously intended to cancel it since he hadn't ever used it once, but they billed him automatically. Then he called since they billed him AHEAD for a month and they refused to refund it.