Tiv0 - we're done. Your loss.

[Nellie]

So the world is going digital. Fine.

I have been a Tivo customer, devotee and advocate since their service was introduced to me (3-4 yrs ago +/-) and before they had any competition (DVR).

I called to disconnect one of my two Tivo accounts earlier in the year, as the box was malfunctioning (a Tivo box). I was convinced by a zealous customer service agent to maintain the 2nd acct as they would send me a "deeply reduced price" replacement box that had added capability (tape two shows at once--wow!)

Come to find out this feature is rendered useless in the new all-digital world we are entering.

Talked to three Tivo customer service reps at Tivo today to find out that none of them are empowered by the company to recognize that the relationship with me -- a longtime, loyal customer, is more important than a 30 day return period; or is empowered to do whatever is necessary (very little, in fact) to maintaining me as a devoted customer and keep me from moving over to the competition.

I am deeply disappointed, but also warn senior management and, more importantly, I warn share-holders that this company is doomed for failure. While they might have at one time, they no longer "own the market" (DVR), and letting customers like me go without a fight is a clear signal that the competition has the edge.

[Turtleboy]

What exactly do you want?

[SueAnn]

My Series 2 will work just fine after the change ...

[aadam101]

So the world is going digital. Fine.

I have been a Tivo customer, devotee and advocate since their service was introduced to me (3-4 yrs ago +/-) and before they had any competition (DVR).

I called to disconnect one of my two Tivo accounts earlier in the year, as the box was malfunctioning (a Tivo box). I was convinced by a zealous customer service agent to maintain the 2nd acct as they would send me a "deeply reduced price" replacement box that had added capability (tape two shows at once--wow!)

Come to find out this feature is rendered useless in the new all-digital world we are entering.

Talked to three Tivo customer service reps at Tivo today to find out that none of them are empowered by the company to recognize that the relationship with me -- a longtime, loyal customer, is more important than a 30 day return period; or is empowered to do whatever is necessary (very little, in fact) to maintaining me as a devoted customer and keep me from moving over to the competition.

I am deeply disappointed, but also warn senior management and, more importantly, I warn share-holders that this company is doomed for failure. While they might have at one time, they no longer "own the market" (DVR), and letting customers like me go without a fight is a clear signal that the competition has the edge.

What are you talking about? Why is your Tivo not going to work?

[lafos]

You had a TiVo, they gave you a discount on a dual tuner unit, and if both tuners don't work, TiVo betrayed you?

[gastrof]

I think this person is a total Nellie.

[westside_guy]

Come to find out this feature is rendered useless in the new all-digital world we are entering.

You either don't understand the digital transition, or you are not giving us the entire story. If you're talking about the February switch to digital broadcast television - it won't affect cable users in the least.

Some cable companies appear to be taking advantage of the lack of understanding regarding this government-mandated transition by planning other unrelated changes to their networks at the same time, then telling customers some vague statements about "the digital transition". However any change your cable company is making that will affect your ability to use a Tivo has nothing to do with the switch to digital broadcast television, nor does it have anything to do with Tivo - it's your cable company playing you.

[ah30k]

I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

[Da Goon]

wwwwwwwwwwwhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[aadam101]

I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

Not Tivo's fault. Maybe OP should write to his congressman.

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

OP joins the TCF just to make that post? Wow...the phrase, "Get a life" comes to mind.

[lofar]

LOL. post of the year. How about trying to actually fix your problem on this forum instead of bitching about tivo? There are hundreds of knowledgable people on this forum that could help you.

ps. Love my Tivo's and if you think cable co dvr's are competition for tivo you couldn't be more wrong. There's no comparison. It's like VHS vs DVD.

[steve614]

It's like VHS vs DVD.

Not to nit-pick but that is comparing an analog device to a digital one.
It's more like comparing a Cadillac to a Pinto. ;)

[Nellie]

I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

Indeed, this is exactly what I am talking about. Forgive me all for not explaining it in a way that works with your geekier brains (that's a compliment to you).

[Nellie]

Not to nit-pick but that is comparing an analog device to a digital one.
It's more like comparing a Cadillac to a Pinto. ;)


Have no idea what you are talking about. Another user of this forum captured my problem like this:

I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

[Nellie]

LOL. post of the year. How about trying to actually fix your problem on this forum instead of bitching about tivo? There are hundreds of knowledgable people on this forum that could help you.

ps. Love my Tivo's and if you think cable co dvr's are competition for tivo you couldn't be more wrong. There's no comparison. It's like VHS vs DVD.

I don't agree. We have a DVR on our HD TV and it has cool functionality that Tivo doesn't, including function as a dual tuner. As an avid Tivo fan, though, I wanted to keep my other two boxes. Not anymore.

[Nellie]

You either don't understand the digital transition, or you are not giving us the entire story. If you're talking about the February switch to digital broadcast television - it won't affect cable users in the least.

Some cable companies appear to be taking advantage of the lack of understanding regarding this government-mandated transition by planning other unrelated changes to their networks at the same time, then telling customers some vague statements about "the digital transition". However any change your cable company is making that will affect your ability to use a Tivo has nothing to do with the switch to digital broadcast television, nor does it have anything to do with Tivo - it's your cable company playing you.


This guy gets it:
I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

[Nellie]

What exactly do you want?

Refund on the dual tuner box, refund on my monthly charge for that second box that kept me as a 2 tuner cutomer, as they knew it would revert to a single tuner box.

Why, do you work for Tivo?

[Nellie]

LOL. post of the year. How about trying to actually fix your problem on this forum instead of bitching about tivo? There are hundreds of knowledgable people on this forum that could help you.

ps. Love my Tivo's and if you think cable co dvr's are competition for tivo you couldn't be more wrong. There's no comparison. It's like VHS vs DVD.

LOL right backatcha. Spent more than 4 hours with Tivo trying to fix the problem, AND get them to understand the importance of maintaining the relationship with a loyal and avid fan of Tivo. To no avail. Time to break up.

[Nellie]

You had a TiVo, they gave you a discount on a dual tuner unit, and if both tuners don't work, TiVo betrayed you?

If they sold me a dual tuner that will be rendered a single tuner, they owe me a refund and they can have it back. How it that confusing?

[Nellie]

Not to nit-pick but that is comparing an analog device to a digital one.
It's more like comparing a Cadillac to a Pinto. ;)

ah, remember the pinto!

[Nellie]

I think this person is a total Nellie.

Terrifically helpful, thanks. BTW, Nellie is the name of my precious dog.

[Nellie]

My Series 2 will work just fine after the change ...

Tivo tells me mine will not. This person explained it well:

Originally Posted by ah30k
I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

[Nellie]

You either don't understand the digital transition, or you are not giving us the entire story. If you're talking about the February switch to digital broadcast television - it won't affect cable users in the least.

Some cable companies appear to be taking advantage of the lack of understanding regarding this government-mandated transition by planning other unrelated changes to their networks at the same time, then telling customers some vague statements about "the digital transition". However any change your cable company is making that will affect your ability to use a Tivo has nothing to do with the switch to digital broadcast television, nor does it have anything to do with Tivo - it's your cable company playing you.


Explained by someone else on this Forum like this:

Originally Posted by ah30k
I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

[Nellie]

OP joins the TCF just to make that post? Wow...the phrase, "Get a life" comes to mind.

In point of fact, "OP" joined the TCF to find an outlet for her frustration (and has found many others elsewhere who share it). My mistake, clearly this is Tivo Lovers Central, and no one here seems to "get'" the basic tenets behind customer service and customer loyalty. It would cost Tivo about $100 to fix this problem (take back my box, refund a few months of montly service for this box). How much have they made off of me during my years as a customer, including but not limited to the dozens (hundreds?) of Tivo customers who came on board as I sang it's praises? It's the relationsip they are losing. Priceless.

[Nellie]

Not Tivo's fault. Maybe OP should write to his congressman.

Tivo didn't see this coming? I am quite sure they did (and one the CS agents with whom I spoke said they were getting lots of calls like mine).

[aadam101]

Why complain now? Why not do your research BEFORE you bought the box and saved yourself all of this frustration. I would NEVER spend more than $100 on any kind of electronic device without doing some internet research first.

[lrhorer]

So the world is going digital. Fine.
News flash: Time marches on. Old technology becomes obsolete.

I have been a Tivo customer, devotee and advocate since their service was introduced to me (3-4 yrs ago +/-) and before they had any competition (DVR).
Although TiVo was the first DVR, they have had plenty of competition since shortly after they were first introduced back in 1998. ReplayTV, MythTV, and others all were competing DVRs.

I called to disconnect one of my two Tivo accounts earlier in the year, as the box was malfunctioning (a Tivo box). I was convinced by a zealous customer service agent to maintain the 2nd acct as they would send me a "deeply reduced price" replacement box that had added capability (tape two shows at once--wow!)
Which they did, yes? Said box has provided you with service, and will continue to do so, yes? Said box would continue to provide you with service even after the 2009 conversion, yes? The only loss of functionality of the unit will be the lack of an active secondary tuner after the conversion to digital, yes? The only reason the unit will fail to meet your expectations is because you failed to do your homework, yes?

Come to find out this feature is rendered useless in the new all-digital world we are entering.
Through no fault of TiVo's. And yet, even though you will then have a unit which will function quite as well as the unit you originally purchased, now it is a reason to dump TiVo? What if TiVo had offered you a single tuner unit for the same price? Would you have turned it down?

[Nellie]

Why complain now? Why not do your research BEFORE you bought the box and saved yourself all of this frustration. I would NEVER spend more than $100 on any kind of electronic device without doing some internet research first.

The box was $69, the few months of monthly fees brings it up to $100. I am not the expert; Tivo is. I have a full time job and life, no time to research if what Tivo is telling me they are selling me is, in fact, what they are selling me.

[samo]

Refund on the dual tuner box, refund on my monthly charge for that second box that kept me as a 2 tuner cutomer, as they knew it would revert to a single tuner box.
While I'm not a biggest fan of TiVo CS, to me it makes perfect sense to let you you go away pissed off. If they take your box back and refund your money, they will lose your sub anyhow. Why should they lose another $100 by refunding your money? You will move to competition regardless. Might as well keep your money.

[Nellie]

News flash: Time marches on. Old technology becomes obsolete. Really?!?!? I should expect technology to become obsolete with a 6 month period? If I am being given a "deal" on something that will become obsolete, tell me when I purchase it. Then it is my decision.

[QUOTE=Nellie;6984971]I have been a Tivo customer, devotee and advocate since their service was introduced to me (3-4 yrs ago +/-) and before they had any competition (DVR).
Although TiVo was the first DVR, they have had plenty of competition since shortly after they were first introduced back in 1998. ReplayTV, MythTV, and others all were competing DVRs. But I have chosen to remain loyal to Tivo all this time, nonetheless. Buys me nothing, it seems.


Through no fault of TiVo's. And yet, even though you will then have a unit which will function quite as well as the unit you originally purchased, now it is a reason to dump TiVo? What if TiVo had offered you a single tuner unit for the same price? Would you have turned it down? Yes, I would have turned it down.

[Nellie]

While I'm not a biggest fan of TiVo CS, to me it makes perfect sense to let you you go away pissed off. If they take your box back and refund your money, they will lose your sub anyhow. Why should they lose another $100 by refunding your money? You will move to competition regardless. Might as well keep your money.

Correcting your assumptions: I will not move to the competition regardless. Silly me, I'm waiting by the phone for a call from Tivo asking how to make this right. It'll be cheap, easy for all of us, and you all can move on to jump all over someone else! :)

[lrhorer]

LOL right backatcha. Spent more than 4 hours with Tivo trying to fix the problem, AND get them to understand the importance of maintaining the relationship with a loyal and avid fan of Tivo. To no avail. Time to break up.
What problem? So far, you haven't described a problem, and as far as I can tell, you don't have one, and won't until February, if then. If you were on the phone with TiVo for four hours, I can only surmise it was because you were as vague and whinny without ever getting properly to the point as you are here.

To the rest, anyone with one good eye and half a brain figured out at least 4 years ago that SD and analog video were soon to go the way of the dinosaur, and everyone knows when an obsolescence event is on the horizon, vendors will offer large discounts on their remaining inventory. That's why all true "loyal and avid fan[s] of Tivo" waited with baited breath and fidgeting feet for the introduction of the S3 TiVo over 2 years ago, and why S2 units can be had on e-bay for a song.

You were given a good deal on an end-of-life product which will still remain largely functional even after a federally mandated obsolescence event. You took this deal apparently because you did not do even the minimum amount of research one should undertake before spending a good little chunk of money. What are you expecting? Sympathy? We have little or none. Agreement? Not on your life. Some sort grass roots movement in support of your position? Don't be absurd.

From your statement, Tivo has lost you as a customer. Well, that makes one. I'm not going to hold my breath to wait for the count to hit two.

[Nellie]

What problem? So far, you haven't described a problem, and as far as I can tell, you don't have one, and won't until February. If you were on the phone with TiVo for four hours, I can only surmise it was because you were as vague and whinny without ever getting properly to the point as you are here.

To the rest, anyone with one good eye and half a brain figured out at least 4 years ago that SD and analog video were soon to go the way of the dinosaur, and everyone knows when an obsolescence event is on the horizon, vendors will offer large discounts on their remaining inventory. That's why all true "loyal and avid fan[s] of Tivo" waited with baited breath and fidgeting feet for the introduction of the S3 TiVo over 2 years ago, and why S2 units can be had on e-bay for a song.

You were given a good deal on an end-of-life product which will still remain largely functional even after a federally mandated obsolescence event. You took this deal apparently because you did not do even the minimum amount of research one should undertake before spending a good little chunk of money. What are you expecting? Sympathy? We have little or none. Agreement? Not on your life. Some sort grass roots movement in support of your position? Don't be absurd.

From your statement, Tivo has lost you as a customer. Well, that makes one. I'm not going to hold my breath to wait for the count to hit two.


Harsh! Glad the world is made up of a variety of people, some more understanding than others. What a world we would live everyone took your attitude. Bye bye.

[lrhorer]

I don't agree. We have a DVR on our HD TV and it has cool functionality that Tivo doesn't, including function as a dual tuner.
If this is an OTA DVR, then it will suffer precisely the same failure in February as the TiVo. If it is not an OTA DVR, then it is a CATV (or FIOS) based DVR, in which case the February transition will not affect you or your TiVo. Either way your silly rant is just so much hot air.

[lrhorer]

Really?!?!? I should expect technology to become obsolete with a 6 month period?
The Series II line of DVRs is nearly 6 years old. The S2 DT is over 4 years old, and 1 full series and 3 models obsolete. The transition to digital OTA broadcasting was announced at least 3 years ago.

If I am being given a "deal" on something that will become obsolete, tell me when I purchase it. Then it is my decision.
I frequently purchase end-of-life and discontinued products in an effort to save money. I have never once that I recall been informed of the fact without my inquiring first. It is certainly not the common practice of any vendor or CE manufacturer of which I know. I fail to see any reason why Tivo should be called to task for not having gone to this trouble, especially since it was so obvious. Now, had you asked concerning it's functionality and the CSR had lied, it would have been a slightly different matter.

Yes, I would have turned it down.
Then it being a mater of concern at the time, you should have inquired at the time.

[aadam101]

I bought a TV in 2005. Best Buy didn't tell me it won't work after February. I think I'll go return it.

[lafos]

The box was $69, the few months of monthly fees brings it up to $100. I am not the expert; Tivo is. I have a full time job and life, no time to research if what Tivo is telling me they are selling me is, in fact, what they are selling me.

You will be a bit hit among snake-oil salespeople.

[janry]

I bought a new car 4 years ago. They didn't tell me cars sold today would have aux. input jacks. Now, they won't refund my $43,000 and all the gas I've put in it. Bastards!

[samo]

Correcting your assumptions: I will not move to the competition regardless. Silly me, I'm waiting by the phone for a call from Tivo asking how to make this right. It'll be cheap, easy for all of us, and you all can move on to jump all over someone else!
Let me try to make it simple for you. You set the price tag on your loyalty yourself at $100. TiVo doesn't think that you are worth that much and rejected your offer. This is a free country - you are free to lower your asking price and try again or you can try to find another buyer (like calling your cable company and asking them to pay you $100 not to switch to satellite).

[jjberger2134]

I really do not understand what the OP problem is. If you describe your problem (source of programming and setup) there are people here that will really try to help you.

Is the OP using OTA or FIOS or some other method to recieve TV transmission?

If I read correctly, TiVo replaced a non-functioning out of warranty box for $69 - sounds like a great deal to me. They could of easily told you at that point to purchase a new product at full price. They helped you out there and did recognize you as a good customer.

Finally, in the worst case, the dual tuner box will revert to a single tuner, which is what the OP had in the first place. So not only did TiVo "fix" (by replacing) the non functioning box for $69 they also gave the OP dual tuner functionality for the past 6+ months all at no additional monthly fee.

And it is not TiVo's fault that the world is going digital. Should they refund $100 to every customer they ever had that does not have a S3 or HD Model? Not to be rude, but why should you be so special? Also, not to be rude, TiVo has been selling models capable of handling the dual tuner in this "digital" world for some time now. Why did you not insist on a HD model 6+ months ago when you replaced your broken analog box?

If you are using FIOS you should be upset with them for not transmitting any analog stations. If you are using OTA, you should be upset with the government.

[maharg18]

Nellie, please just tell us, what TV service do you currently use?

[dylanemcgregor]

I have to defend the OP a little bit, because I don't think her expectations are totally unreasonable (not the refund part, but a little more disclosure by Tivo when giving the offer about what the DT Tivo can do).

My parents are in the same boat kind-of, about a year and a half ago they bought a DT to replace their single tuner. The single tuner worked fine, but they thought having two tuners would be nice, and they don't have HD and have no plans on getting it, so they didn't even consider getting a Tivo HD. I don't know how much research they did, they did a fair amount of research before buying their first S1, but after that one worked fine I don't think they have felt the same need to spend weeks reading before buying a new model. Even if they did do their research though, I think it would be very easy to miss this because so many people (both here and in professional reviews) kept repeating that the "digital transition" had nothing to do with cable subscribers and hence they had nothing to worry about. While this may be technically true, it ignores the fact that most cable companies have been planning on making a total digital transition, and many are doing so around the same time as the OTA cut-off.

In my parents case they received notice that the switch will be happening in the first half of the year. So they spent ~$400 for less than two years of digital tuner use (a feature I'm guessing they have used 3 times in that period). Not a huge deal for them, but an annoyance nevertheless.

[berkshires]

You got a replacement for a failing TiVo which will have at least the functionality* of the failing TiVo for a very reasonable $69. You continued service, for the same cost you were always paying on the failing TiVo.

Are you really that angry or are you just extra angry because you weren't told by the seller upfront about the possible loss of the extra functionality after 6 months?

If you look at what you really got, don't you feel you got a decent deal on the replacement regardless?


* your DT will have faster transfer rates than your old unit, as one example of a continuing advantage. Did your HD size change?

[dianebrat]

The box was $69, the few months of monthly fees brings it up to $100. I am not the expert; Tivo is. I have a full time job and life, no time to research if what Tivo is telling me they are selling me is, in fact, what they are selling me.

And IMNSHO life is too short to get in a snit about $100 mistake, I've made far bigger. *cough* *samsung UMPC* *cough*

Part of any reasonable consumer electronics experience you will have since the world moves so fast is to make at least a stab at doing some research, and there are plenty of resources.

While you're not saying it, others have started to, the answer wasn't the S2DT for $69, but to have spent some more for the TivoHD which *IS* completely dual tuner capable in the Cable, FIOS, and OTA world. A single tuner DVR for $69? that doesnt even cover the cost of the components.

So even if you just use the subscription fees as your education, you can take advantage of that with your new knowledge that the TivoHD solves your issue.

The fact that it was earlier this year means there was plenty of data on this issue, the OTA transition WAS public knowledge already.

This is not Tivo's fault, even if you are in a pro-Tivo forum this should be apparent.

Diane

[Pixel]

Tivo tells me mine will not. This person explained it well:

Originally Posted by ah30k
I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

But that's if you use one of those digital TV adaptor boxes that the Government was passing coupons out for. *That* will render a S2DT a single tuner unit.

What can anyone expect? That machine is several years old. In terms of design if nothing else.

Why not get a HD unit instead of that S2DT? The HD will work as you want. Put a couple of cable cards in it and your good to go. Two tuners at your call.

That assumes you're getting your signal from a traditional cable company. Since I don't have either of them, I'm not aware of how Verizon Fios or AT&T U-Verse would or could work with a cable card. I could get U-Verse but won't for several reasons, the two biggest that connecting to my TiVos would be complicated and their internet access is slower than Time Warner Cable. I cannot get FIOS.

[Pixel]

[QUOTE=lrhorer;6985338]News flash: Time marches on. Old technology becomes obsolete. Really?!?!? I should expect technology to become obsolete with a 6 month period? If I am being given a "deal" on something that will become obsolete, tell me when I purchase it. Then it is my decision.

Yes, I would have turned it down.


You bought something already obsolete. I bought mine over 2 years ago and it had been for sale for maybe a year before.

Even so, at my address it will continue to function as designed for as long as Time Warner continues to offer SD channels. For as long as they do, the S2DT will tune two channels at a time.

I have a stack of old electronics. All still work. But all are obsolete. I've had computers that still functioned, but are no longer being used. They are obsolete. They are on that stack. Would you want to use an IBM XT? Or upgrade to a AT? Of course not. And they all cost real money. They gave the service they were bought for and are now effectively used up.

Instead of venting your spleen over this S2DT, why not offer TiVo to return it and pay the difference for an HD unit? Even if you don't have an HD TV, it will function as you require, two tuners, with cable cards.

[Pixel]

If you are using FIOS you should be upset with them for not transmitting any analog stations. If you are using OTA, you should be upset with the government.

If the OP really is using OTA, then an HD unit is still a good choice. I use my HD with the "digital" antenna TiVo sells on their website. It'll record two different channels simultaneously just fine with it.

I think the OP (like a great many people) wants a brand new Cadillac at the price of a used Chevy from someone's corner lot.

[TonyTheTiger]

Wow. 45 posts attacking/defending this and no-one knows if the OP will actually be affected by the transition yet!

In my experience, few TiVo owners are satisfied with JUST an OTA source for all their programming. Most have at least cable as well.

The OP mentions that "we have a DVR on our HDTV". Is this a cable box? Satellite?

As has been stated previously, no-one is really in a position to comment without knowing the full story. I do, however, feel you may be over-reacting a little, but I understand the need to vent. Remember that if you post a rant on a forum, especially one dedicated to the very thing you're ranting about, you will get negative (to you) comments!

[magnus]

Or how about what service were they using when they got the DT?


Nellie, please just tell us, what TV service do you currently use?

[steve614]

Have no idea what you are talking about. Another user of this forum captured my problem like this:
I was responding to a comment posted by lofar.

In point of fact, "OP" joined the TCF to find an outlet for her frustration (and has found many others elsewhere who share it). My mistake, clearly this is Tivo Lovers Central, and no one here seems to "get'" the basic tenets behind customer service and customer loyalty. It would cost Tivo about $100 to fix this problem (take back my box, refund a few months of montly service for this box). How much have they made off of me during my years as a customer, including but not limited to the dozens (hundreds?) of Tivo customers who came on board as I sang it's praises? It's the relationsip they are losing. Priceless.

You're right. This is a Tivo lovers forum. The fact that it's named "Tivo Community" should have clued you in.
I'm sure some will agree that Tivo Customer Service could be better, but in your situation, I think they went 'above and beyond'.
Your original Tivo was a single tuner, no? When your cable provider decides to switch to all digital, the *new* box will become a single tuner, so you're not really losing anything.
In fact, you gained a unit that is a bit faster than the ST models, and has a built-in ethernet port. It probably has more recording space as well.

[magnus]

I'm one of those people, the content is not what it's cracked up to be. Directv and others charge way too much for the 5 extra channels that I want to watch.

With Netflix, Amazon, Jaman, CinemaNow and others offering content the way people will watch TV will change.


In my experience, few TiVo owners are satisfied with JUST an OTA source for all their programming. Most have at least cable as well.

[berkshires]

As has been stated previously, no-one is really in a position to comment without knowing the full story.

You do it this way...

You got a replacement for a failing TiVo which will have at least the functionality* of the failing TiVo for a very reasonable $69. You continued service, for the same cost you were always paying on the failing TiVo.

Are you really that angry or are you just extra angry because you weren't told by the seller upfront about the possible loss of the extra functionality after 6 months?

If you look at what you really got, don't you feel you got a decent deal on the replacement regardless?


* your DT will have faster transfer rates than your old unit, as one example of a continuing advantage. Did your HD size change?

No matter what the answers to the unknowns, the post works.

[magnus]

This is probably the best advice for the OP.




You bought something already obsolete. I bought mine over 2 years ago and it had been for sale for maybe a year before.

Even so, at my address it will continue to function as designed for as long as Time Warner continues to offer SD channels. For as long as they do, the S2DT will tune two channels at a time.

I have a stack of old electronics. All still work. But all are obsolete. I've had computers that still functioned, but are no longer being used. They are obsolete. They are on that stack. Would you want to use an IBM XT? Or upgrade to a AT? Of course not. And they all cost real money. They gave the service they were bought for and are now effectively used up.

Instead of venting your spleen over this S2DT, why not offer TiVo to return it and pay the difference for an HD unit? Even if you don't have an HD TV, it will function as you require, two tuners, with cable cards.

[Nellie]

I bought a TV in 2005. Best Buy didn't tell me it won't work after February. I think I'll go return it.

Please - six months is different than fours years.

[magnus]

Where does one draw that line? Why does the consumer not take any responsibility in this? It's always easier to point the finger at others. It sounds like the problem is that YOU did not do the research before purchasing.

Please - six months is different than fours years.

[Nellie]

I bought a new car 4 years ago. They didn't tell me cars sold today would have aux. input jacks. Now, they won't refund my $43,000 and all the gas I've put in it. Bastards!

six months does not equal 4 years -- what is it with you people? I am not stupid, I simply have different expectations about customer service AND TIME, it appears. My family drives a '99 Subaru and a '04 VW -- no complaints within 6 months of buying either of being sold a bill of goods.

[David Platt]

I'm not understanding why you think they should refund the cost of the subscription between when you got the replacement TiVo and now. Why should they give you those months for free when they provided a usable service to you?

[Nellie]

I have to defend the OP a little bit, because I don't think her expectations are totally unreasonable (not the refund part, but a little more disclosure by Tivo when giving the offer about what the DT Tivo can do).

My parents are in the same boat kind-of, about a year and a half ago they bought a DT to replace their single tuner. The single tuner worked fine, but they thought having two tuners would be nice, and they don't have HD and have no plans on getting it, so they didn't even consider getting a Tivo HD. I don't know how much research they did, they did a fair amount of research before buying their first S1, but after that one worked fine I don't think they have felt the same need to spend weeks reading before buying a new model. Even if they did do their research though, I think it would be very easy to miss this because so many people (both here and in professional reviews) kept repeating that the "digital transition" had nothing to do with cable subscribers and hence they had nothing to worry about. While this may be technically true, it ignores the fact that most cable companies have been planning on making a total digital transition, and many are doing so around the same time as the OTA cut-off.

In my parents case they received notice that the switch will be happening in the first half of the year. So they spent ~$400 for less than two years of digital tuner use (a feature I'm guessing they have used 3 times in that period). Not a huge deal for them, but an annoyance nevertheless.

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways, including that I had every reason to trust Tivo to stear me in the right direction; researching my second box didn't seem necessary (few have as much knowledge about the Tivo boxes and the differences between them as those on this Forum seem to have).

[magnus]

What is it with YOU? You don't think that you need to take responsibility for YOUR action?

The Tivo that you have still works and will continue to work even after 17 FEB 2009. It will either work as dual tuner (analog cable) or single tuner (digital cable and satellite).

If you were to be honest, what service did you have when you got the DT? Was it analog cable? What TV service do you have now?

six months does not equal 4 years -- what is it with you people? I am not stupid, I simply have different expectations about customer service AND TIME, it appears. My family drives a '99 Subaru and a '04 VW -- no complaints within 6 months of buying either of being sold a bill of goods.

[magnus]

Why don't you just sell the Tivo on ebay? Then you could move on from Tivo, since you're done and all.

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways, including that I had every reason to trust Tivo to stear me in the right direction; researching my second box didn't seem necessary (few have as much knowledge about the Tivo boxes and the differences between them as those on this Forum seem to have).

[janry]

six months does not equal 4 years -- what is it with you people? I am not stupid, I simply have different expectations about customer service AND TIME, it appears. My family drives a '99 Subaru and a '04 VW -- no complaints within 6 months of buying either of being sold a bill of goods.

It's an exageration. Especially since you think TiVo owes you for services rendered. That was like my gasoline remark. I'm sorry things have to be explained to you in simple terms. Maybe you are what you say you aren't.

[berkshires]

I'm not understanding why you think they should refund the cost of the subscription between when you got the replacement TiVo and now. Why should they give you those months for free when they provided a usable service to you?

Because she feels she was roped into something unfairly by not being told about what will happen next month, and so she feels due a full refund since she would not otherwise have taken the box&service, but would have just cancelled the old second unit.

[SueAnn]

I don't agree. We have a DVR on our HD TV and it has cool functionality that Tivo doesn't, including function as a dual tuner. As an avid Tivo fan, though, I wanted to keep my other two boxes. Not anymore.

I have Tivo on my HD TV that does just this ... and I bought it last year and paid FULL price to replace my aging Series 1.

[SueAnn]

Please - six months is different than fours years.

I can buy something today and it can be outdated tomorrow.
Does the person at the grocery store monitor every items expiration date for you upon checkout?

[TonyTheTiger]

...and STILL no answers to the basic questions!

[magnus]

Yep, they seem to be able to answer or argue everything else but not the basic one. :D

...and STILL no answers to the basic questions!

[nrc]

I am deeply disappointed, but also warn senior management and, more importantly, I warn share-holders that this company is doomed for failure. While they might have at one time, they no longer "own the market" (DVR), and letting customers like me go without a fight is a clear signal that the competition has the edge.

TiVo? Doomed to fail? Nobody has ever suggested such a thing before!

[GARY COOPER]

I can buy something today and it can be outdated tomorrow.
Does the person at the grocery store monitor every items expiration date for you upon checkout?


NO But pharmacy will ..:)

[SueAnn]

NO But pharmacy will ..:)

Whoooaaaa... nearly 5 years and you come out to say this ????

The pharmacist may check the prescriptions but I'll bet the items over the counter don't get checked.

[freeze12]

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways, including that I had every reason to trust Tivo to stear me in the right direction; researching my second box didn't seem necessary (few have as much knowledge about the Tivo boxes and the differences between them as those on this Forum seem to have).

Nellie...Take the box and throw it in the garbage were it & most old Tivo box's belong and forget about it as life is too short to worry about something stupid and trivial as Tivo!

[Pixel]

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways, including that I had every reason to trust Tivo to stear me in the right direction; researching my second box didn't seem necessary (few have as much knowledge about the Tivo boxes and the differences between them as those on this Forum seem to have).

So this is the bottom line - you can't take care of yourself, you need other people to take care of you. The digital transition has been widely publicized. But you're clueless about how it actually works. You've demonstrated no comprehension about how all this works.

The part about if you have cable, you don't have to worry, is true to the extent that the cable company continues offering SD service on their system. Anyone hooked up to that service won't have to worry about a thing. So long as the SD remains.

You, I'm afraid, are in need of a nanny. Someone to protect you from yourself.

You've made many posts but not once have you identified how you get your video service. Is it cable? U-Verse? FIOS? OTA? Something beamed in from the mothership? If you don't understand where the signal comes from, why did you buy anything at all? You have much to be responsible for, but in typical entitlement fashion, won't. You have a duty to yourself to at least check around a little bit on the things you buy.

If I were running TiVo, at this point I wouldn't pick up the phone when your name popped up on the caller ID screen. They've held up their end of the deal. How about you hold up yours?

[Adam1115]

Refund on the dual tuner box, refund on my monthly charge for that second box that kept me as a 2 tuner cutomer, as they knew it would revert to a single tuner box.

Why, do you work for Tivo?

How do you expect TiVo to forsee what your cable company might do in the future? My cable company (Comcast) still offers 80 channels in analog and it works perfectly fine with the DT.

It isn't their fault that your cable company discontinued analog service.

But they do make a box that will receive digital and record two shows at once, the TiVo HD. Maybe you should call TiVo and see if they'll give you (another) discounted upgrade based on your situation?

But if your serious, you should be able to get a good chunk of your money back. The DT's sell on ebay for $75-$100....

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

But if your serious, you should be able to get a good chunk of your money back. The DT's sell on ebay for $75-$100....

Then who will reimburse her for the time she spent selling it on eBay?

[SueAnn]

Then who will reimburse her for the time she spent selling it on eBay?

The person who buys it on eBay ! :D

[Budget_HT]

My observations:

Cable Scenario - our Comcast cable service will, in less than a year, be modified as follows:

Analog channels 2-30 will remain available as analog indefinitely, meaning folks subscribing to Limited Basic service will be fine without the need for a converter box (no change from today).

Digital high definition (HD) and standard defintion (SD) channels normally available via antenna over the air (OTA) will be broadcast over cable using QAM without encryption and with PSIP channel mapping data that provides their OTA equivalent channel numbers for tuning and display (no change from today). This also works for Limited Basic subscribers without the need for a cable box IF their TV has a built-in QAM digital tuner.

Analog channels 31-99 are being converted to digital and the analog channels will be discontinued. Folks subscribing today to Expanded Basic (which includes these channels) will be provided with a very simple converter box, the first 2 (or 5 in some areas) will be free, the others about $2 per month (Definitely a change from today, enabling recovery of numerous channel slots that can each carry one analog channel, 10 equivalent SD digital channels or 2-3 high definition channels).

Pay HD and SD digital channels, encrypted and broadcast using QAM in the channel range of 70-125 and appearing in the guide as channel numbers 200+ will still require a cable box, as today (no change here).

So a non-HD TiVo with two tuners using our cable system will have the following reduction in functionality: Both tuners still work as before, one with cable box and one directly from the cable, but the one working directly from cable will only tune channels 2-30.


FiOS Scenario

I don't know whether FiOS offers any analog channels that can be received by a TV without a set top box. Someone with FiOS knowledge/experience should be able to explain this scenario.


OTA Scenario

The dual tuner TiVo was not designed for antenna (OTA) reception at all, and is described as such in all documentation that I have seen.

[Adam1115]

Then who will reimburse her for the time she spent selling it on eBay?

huh...? :confused:

[Adam1115]

If this is an OTA DVR, then it will suffer precisely the same failure in February as the TiVo.

I really do not understand what the OP problem is. If you describe your problem (source of programming and setup) there are people here that will really try to help you.

Is the OP using OTA or FIOS or some other method to recieve TV transmission?

If the OP really is using OTA, then an HD unit is still a good choice. I use my HD with the "digital" antenna TiVo sells on their website. It'll record two different channels simultaneously just fine with it.

If you guys are going to attack the OP, you might want to make sure you know what you're talking about.

The Series2 DT does not, has not, and will not ever support OTA.

And if the OP HAD dual tuner functionality and doesn't now, it's logical to assume the OP has cable.

IF it were purchased for use with satellite I can see where the OP was mislead, as it would never support dual tuners....

[Clusty]

We still don't know whether or not the OP will be affected by the transition. I'm guessing he won't by his reluctance to answer our questions about if he has Cable or uses OTA signals.

[lew]

FiOS Scenario

I don't know whether FiOS offers any analog channels that can be received by a TV without a set top box. Someone with FiOS knowledge/experience should be able to explain this scenario.



FiOS is 100% digital. A TV set with a QAM (digital) tuner can receive a limited number of stations without a STB.

[TolloNodre]

It isn't their fault that your cable company discontinued analog service.


Exactly.

I don't understand all the vitriol directed at TiVo for a decision made by their local cable system. :confused:

[magnus]

All true, I guess the question is was the OP stupid enough to think that the DT would tune anything other than analog cable (as a dual tuner).

Of course, it never did OTA but it could do satellite. So, I guess it goes back to what source did they have to begin with. If it was analog cable and their provider changed then how the hell could it be Tivos fault.

If you guys are going to attack the OP, you might want to make sure you know what you're talking about.

The Series2 DT does not, has not, and will not ever support OTA.

And if the OP HAD dual tuner functionality and doesn't now, it's logical to assume the OP has cable.

IF it were purchased for use with satellite I can see where the OP was mislead, as it would never support dual tuners....

[MickeS]

How do you expect TiVo to forsee what your cable company might do in the future? My cable company (Comcast) still offers 80 channels in analog and it works perfectly fine with the DT.

It isn't their fault that your cable company discontinued analog service.

Exactly! TiVo did nothing wrong. It's the cable company that changed their service. The OP should direct the anger and frustration there. Or just accept it and move on.

[aadam101]

Please - six months is different than fours years.

It was a $500 TV. Your Tivo was $69. I think it's about the same.

[micfun]

Hi I purchased a series 2 with a lifetime subscription used on craigslist. I registered it with Tivo and started it up and it worked fine for 2 days.Now it won't respond to anything. Tivo said its frozen and will sell me a refurbished one for $149 and transfer the lifetime to the new box....I think they turned off my box to get money.Are they scamming me? Are there any tricks to turn it back on thank you... Micfun

[Clusty]

Hi I purchased a series 2 with a lifetime subscription used on craigslist. I registered it with Tivo and started it up and it worked fine for 2 days.Now it won't respond to anything. Tivo said its frozen and will sell me a refurbished one for $149 and transfer the lifetime to the new box....I think they turned off my box to get money.Are they scamming me? Are there any tricks to turn it back on thank you... Micfun

TiVo can't turn your box off. However, you'd be best to post a new thread with your problem here. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=4)

[micfun]

Hi I purchased a series 2 with a lifetime subscription used on craigslist. I registered it with Tivo and started it up and it worked fine for 2 days.Now it won't respond to anything. Tivo said its frozen and will sell me a refurbished one for $149 and transfer the lifetime to the new box....I think they turned off my box to get money.Are they scamming me? Are there any tricks to turn it back on thank you... Micfun

[riddick21]

Would you like french cries with your waaahburger?

[CrashHD]

I am not stupid,

Who told you that?

If they sold me a dual tuner that will be rendered a single tuner, they owe me a refund and they can have it back. How it that confusing?
Tivo did nothing to you or your dvr. Your dual tuner still works with analog cable, as it always has. It is not tivo's responsibility to provide you with analog cable. To my knowledgel, Tivo has never sold anyone an analog dvr along with a promise that the same dvr will someday also do digital. Neither Tivo, nor anyone else, for that matter, owes you a damn thing.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[usnret]

The horse is dead and gone. Forget about it.

[alansh]

With respect to satellite, however, the DT could never use its second tuner anyway -- it can only control one "box", be it cable or satellite. The second input has always had to be in-the-clear analog cable.

The OP also didn't mention if the new TiVo was an hours upgrade. The $69 is on the low side of what you'd pay for a new hard drive anyway.

[ZeoTiVo]

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways, including that I had every reason to trust Tivo to stear me in the right direction; researching my second box didn't seem necessary (few have as much knowledge about the Tivo boxes and the differences between them as those on this Forum seem to have).

OK, so you did not research and are now looking for an outlet for your frustration at not doing what you should have upfront. I have 4 kids that give me plenty of that and none of us here are wanting your frustration for not doing what you should have done.

You are like the 3rd person this week that is trying to make their problems our problems as opposed to simply asking for some advice. You want to bad mouth TiVo because you feel they wronged you, then fine you are free to post away. But why be so shocked when you get replies pointing out that it is your money and ultimately your responsibility to figure out what you should spend it on.

[mamosley]

Indeed, this is exactly what I am talking about. Forgive me all for not explaining it in a way that works with your geekier brains (that's a compliment to you).

Not trying to be mean or anything but are you also calling your tv manufacturers to complain that your current tv's as are will no longer work with an antenna? When they initially offered the discount on the s2 did you inquire if you could get that discount applied to a tivo hd due to the impending digital cut over? Every now and again I get customers complain to me the sales rep didnt ask them if they had x home phone or b alarm because they are not compatible with our service. I mean if you go buy a car are you expecting the sales person to ask you if the car will fit your garage? Personally when I am looking for a product or service whether or not I purchase is based on my needs and I never expect a sales person or customer service rep to be clairvoyant.

[moonscape]

all this upset over $69 - a great deal to have a working tivo?

i'm most puzzled how your declaration that you work full-time and don't have time to research is compatible with spending 4 hours on the phone to 'fix' this problem w/ tivo (i.e. negotiate a refund.)

honestly, i don't mean to be disrespectful when i suggest taking a deep breath and perhaps looking around for misplaced perspective.

[DCIFRTHS]

I bought a TV in 2005. Best Buy didn't tell me it won't work after February. I think I'll go return it.

The government already fined them for not properly displaying what the down side to analog devices was going to be.

[DCIFRTHS]

I have to defend the OP a little bit, because I don't think her expectations are totally unreasonable (not the refund part, but a little more disclosure by Tivo when giving the offer about what the DT Tivo can do). ...

Agreed. My take on this forum is this:

Many times I visit this forum, and read posts that criticize TiVo for one reason or another. Some of them are legitimate gripes while others are based on nothing more than an angered subscriber with no leg to stand on.

What troubles me the most is that instead of responding to the post with a logical, informative answer, it seems that 9 out of 10 of the responses do nothing but tell the poster what an idiot he/she is, and to go away because we don't need your business.

TiVo is doing a good enough job of driving their subscribers away (a topic for another thread). The thing I can't seem to understand is why some of TiVo's most devoted fans would actually perpetuate that suicidal trend, and not attempt to assist the angered poster :confused:

If I was new to TiVo, and came to this forum for help, I would probably never post because I would be concerned that many of the "regulars" who belittle, attack, and are generally nasty would do that same to me when all I did was come here to get help - or maybe even blow off a little steam.

[DCIFRTHS]

OK, so you did not research and are now looking for an outlet for your frustration at not doing what you should have upfront. I have 4 kids that give me plenty of that and none of us here are wanting your frustration for not doing what you should have done.

You are like the 3rd person this week that is trying to make their problems our problems as opposed to simply asking for some advice. You want to bad mouth TiVo because you feel they wronged you, then fine you are free to post away. But why be so shocked when you get replies pointing out that it is your money and ultimately your responsibility to figure out what you should spend it on.

With all due respect TiVo absolutely should have told this customer that, in six months, the box would not work as expected because the government was mandating a change in the way signals are broadcast. Retail stores were required to do it, why should TiVo be exempt?

Honestly, I always thought that TiVo was above this way of doing business. Unfortunately, a lot has changed over the past year or two.

[ZeoTiVo]

With all due respect TiVo absolutely should have told this customer that, in six months, the box would not work as expected because the government was mandating a change in the way signals are broadcast. Retail stores were required to do it, why should TiVo be exempt?

Honestly, I always thought that TiVo was above this way of doing business. Unfortunately, a lot has changed over the past year or two.
umm, perhpas because the OP was NOT doing OTA and the thread became confused over that. The OP was doing cable and it does not sound like the OP ever asked any questions about digital or analog and the DT box.

Now you should note that I never said TiVo was in the clear on this. It would have been a much better if the CSR could have figured out what the OP was truly needing. However even in this thread it has become confused what the OP really needed and that is mainly because the OP has a full time and a life and can not find the time to fully figure out what he needs. Short of mind reading or sending someone to the OPs house to figure out what was really going on I think it would be very hard for TiVo to figure it out in this case. I also submit that we have no way of knowing how the call really went, given the OPs disposition to not dig into the info, the fact the OP had a series 2 to begin with and wanted a cheap replacement I would have started off talking about a series 2 DT as well.

[DCIFRTHS]

umm, perhpas because the OP was NOT doing OTA and the thread became confused over that. The OP was doing cable and it does not sound like the OP ever asked any questions about digital or analog and the DT box.

It also sounds like the TiVo rep didn't ask any questions either. All he/she did was save the cancellation, and get the credit for that. In most cases, a "save" results in extra money for the agency hired to do the saves. That is a big incentive toward nondisclosure.

Now you should note that I never said TiVo was in the clear on this. It would have been a much better if the CSR could have figured out what the OP was truly needing. However even in this thread it has become confused what the OP really needed and that is mainly because the OP has a full time and a life and can not find the time to fully figure out what he needs. Short of mind reading or sending someone to the OPs house to figure out what was really going on I think it would be very hard for TiVo to figure it out in this case. I also submit that we have no way of knowing how the call really went, given the OPs disposition to not dig into the info, the fact the OP had a series 2 to begin with and wanted a cheap replacement I would have started off talking about a series 2 DT as well.

I do know that you are not saying TiVo was as helpful as they should/could have been. It is also possible that the OP was told that she would only get 6 months of dual channel recording, and mis-represented herself here in the forum. By the way, I believe the original poster stated that she was a "she". Sometimes little things do slip by even the most capable veterans here... I say this only to illustrate how easy it is to miss details sometimes - the same way that a non-technical person might miss some of the details too...

One important thing to remember is that the many of the people here are overwhelmed by today's technology. Hooking up a TiVo, and getting it to work properly (the way you want it to) is not something that all people can do - nor do they have the time or interest to invest in learning how. If I had no knowledge of how TV signals worked, and TiVo - the compnay that makes the device I am buying - told me that I could now record two channels for $100, I'd be happy too. I would become very unhappy, very quickly, if the "... for six months." part was left out.

Most of us on this forum are enthusiasts, and we know more than the average person about what technology lives inside our CE devices. A little respect, and even tolerance, would go a long way in making this forum a nicer place to visit. That is my main point for responding to this thread.

[TriBruin]

Agreed. My take on this forum is this:

Many times I visit this forum, and read posts that criticize TiVo for one reason or another. Some of them are legitimate gripes while others are based on nothing more than an angered subscriber with no leg to stand on.

What troubles me the most is that instead of responding to the post with a logical, informative answer, it seems that 9 out of 10 of the responses do nothing but tell the poster what an idiot he/she is, and to go away because we don't need your business.

TiVo is doing a good enough job of driving their subscribers away (a topic for another thread). The thing I can't seem to understand is why some of TiVo's most devoted fans would actually perpetuate that suicidal trend, and not attempt to assist the angered poster :confused:

If I was new to TiVo, and came to this forum for help, I would probably never post because I would be concerned that many of the "regulars" who belittle, attack, and are generally nasty would do that same to me when all I did was come here to get help - or maybe even blow off a little steam.

I think you will find that people with legitimate gripes AND present these gripes in a logical and thoughtful manner will get the most helpful responses.

Start a with a title "Tiv0 - we're done. Your loss" and provide almost no information about the situation or why you are upset. You are going to get a lot of "unhelpful" responses. The OP did ask for help, they just wanted to vent. Some posters even tried to ask what the problem was in an attempt to help and still got no response. With that attitude you are not going to see much sympathy.

[MickeS]

It also sounds like the TiVo rep didn't ask any questions either. All he/she did was save the cancellation, and get the credit for that. In most cases, a "save" results in extra money for the agency hired to do the saves. That is a big incentive toward nondisclosure.

What the hell are you talking about? TiVo could not have known that the OPs cable company would shut down analog, no matter how you spin it.

And anyone who starts a thread as antagonistic as the OP gets met with the same.

Who would be surprised if the TiVo CSR actually offered to sell the OP a TiVoHD and the OP got furious because it was too expensive and demanded something cheaper, since she only used analog anyway? Not me...

[chip_r]

Agreed. My take on this forum is this:

Many times I visit this forum, and read posts that criticize TiVo for one reason or another. Some of them are legitimate gripes while others are based on nothing more than an angered subscriber with no leg to stand on.

What troubles me the most is that instead of responding to the post with a logical, informative answer, it seems that 9 out of 10 of the responses do nothing but tell the poster what an idiot he/she is, and to go away because we don't need your business.

TiVo is doing a good enough job of driving their subscribers away (a topic for another thread). The thing I can't seem to understand is why some of TiVo's most devoted fans would actually perpetuate that suicidal trend, and not attempt to assist the angered poster :confused:

If I was new to TiVo, and came to this forum for help, I would probably never post because I would be concerned that many of the "regulars" who belittle, attack, and are generally nasty would do that same to me when all I did was come here to get help - or maybe even blow off a little steam.Generally logical informative answers require a complete question that includes the facts. Missing facts from the OP aside, the 9 of 10 posters simply are in the group of "angered subscriber with no leg to stand on". Some responders are being witty, some are over-reacting to a rant, and some are simply saying "huh?".

I very much disagree with your concern about the "regulars". On the whole, I've found the forum to be very useful. Yes, even when asking clear, intelligent questions I've received the entire spectrum of sarcastic, witty, what planet did you come from, wrong, and dead-on correct answers in the same thread. It simply shows the diversity of the users, not the nature of the forum. I'd expect no less.

If the OP ever reads the responses to her thread, possibly she can distill the overall flavor and see that her expectations might be out of line with the experience of other TiVo users. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Adam1115]

With all due respect TiVo absolutely should have told this customer that, in six months, the box would not work as expected because the government was mandating a change in the way signals are broadcast. Retail stores were required to do it, why should TiVo be exempt?

Honestly, I always thought that TiVo was above this way of doing business. Unfortunately, a lot has changed over the past year or two.

The TiVo Series 2 DT does not, has not, and will not support OTA. IT DOESN'T SUPPORT OTA.

The box is cable or satellite ONLY. It is not affected in ANY way by the February analog switch.

[ZeoTiVo]

It also sounds like the TiVo rep didn't ask any questions either. All he/she did was save the cancellation, and get the credit for that. In most cases, a "save" results in extra money for the agency hired to do the saves. That is a big incentive toward nondisclosure. I would say that is very distinctly possible.

A little respect, and even tolerance, would go a long way in making this forum a nicer place to visit. That is my main point for responding to this thread.
yes, I would love it if the OP came on the board and said they had a problem they wanted some feedback on. How wonderful it would be if people new to any situation, showed a little respect and did some listening and learning first before getting into laying their frustration on us. The OP hit a bad week perhaps as I may well have other weeks gone by the trhead or let them know some facts. But this week we just seemed to have a string of people who wanted to shove their frustration and rant on us before they even got through typing the subject line.

[Nellie]

Happy day -- it wasn't only a dream. I received calls from Tivo on all three of my contact numbers this morning (home, work and cell). Falling all over themselves to make this right. I am a valued customer, as I thought I was. They want to hold on to my business AND make this small refund to retain me.

Thanks to the couple of you who "got it."

Thanks also to those couple of you on this forum who were as startled as I was by the vitriolic nature of so many of the posts in response to mine. You might want to take a look at what that's all about...

Goodbye to all. Nellie has left the building.

[DAccardi]

Happy day -- it wasn't only a dream. I received calls from Tivo on all three of my contact numbers this morning (home, work and cell). Falling all over themselves to make this right. I am a valued customer, as I thought I was. They want to hold on to my business AND make this small refund to retain me.

Thanks to the couple of you who "got it."

Thanks also to those couple of you on this forum who were as startled as I was by the vitriolic nature of so many of the posts in response to mine. You might want to take a look at what that's all about...

Goodbye to all. Nellie has left the building.


I call your bluff, they never called back and even if they did, you said it yourself they're doomed so you have a box that will in simple terms, self destruct soon. Full of contradictions you are.

[Kablemodem]

Unless they gave you an HD TiVo, you still won't be able to record OTA broadcasts on your Series 2 TiVo.

[jrm01]

Unless they gave you an HD TiVo, you still won't be able to record OTA broadcasts on your Series 2 TiVo.

She had a S2DT and I believe that Adam whispered something about them not doing OTA, so I don't think she was doing OTA.

[MickeS]

She had a S2DT and I believe that Adam whispered something about them not doing OTA, so I don't think she was doing OTA.

I guess TiVo convinced the cable company to restore their analog signal into her house. Either that, or they sold her a TiVoHD.

[jrm01]

Nellie is going to win this argument, no one is going to stop her. Unless, that is, Kieth Jackson joins this forum.:D

[chris401]

What an entertaining thread!

I too want to share my thoughts, but given that the OP has left the building, let's shut this one down as it is no longer serving a purpose (pot/kettle/black, however, as I am bumping this by commenting myself).

I will attest to what was stated by many: this is a great community full of helpful people willing to answer any questions if you only take the time to ask.

[steve614]

I would just like to comment, IMHO if the OP had come here with a ''help me please, suggestions???'' in the thread title and then just explained what happened with her in her post, this thread would have been completely opposite from what it was.
We couldn't have helped her with her situation anyway. At least the OP realized she had to contact Tivo directly.
She may be telling the truth about Tivo trying to keep her as a customer. I've read of similar situations before.

[ZeoTiVo]

Thanks also to those couple of you on this forum who were as startled as I was by the vitriolic nature of so many of the posts in response to mine. You might want to take a look at what that's all about...

Goodbye to all. Nellie has left the building.

nice - the OP comes in leaves a nasty subject line bashing the company that ending up helping her so much. :rolleyes:

this is my personal favorite tactic - come in post a rant bashing the main topic of the forum for typically no reason and then take the high rode like everyone else is somehow wrong for not liking the rant the OP starts off with.
oh and then acting all vindicated somehow when TiVo does what it would have done all along anyway.

[magnus]

It's just a simple case of he/she who b**ches enough. You do that enough and sometimes you'll get more than your entitled to, just like the OP.

[MickeS]

It's just a simple case of he/she who b**ches enough. You do that enough and sometimes you'll get more than your entitled to, just like the OP.

We have no idea what she got though. The final triumphant post is as vague and lacking in detail as the first.

[yunlin12]

This reminded me of a marketing opportunity that Tivo has. If this has been done, my apologies.

Tivo knows what program line up each Tivo is using, right? So can't Tivo send out a message to all S1/S2 OTA users, that they will lose the OTA in Feb 2009, and should upgrade to the Tivo HD, and offer them a good upgrade deal?

[ClubrhythmEnt]

Why don't you just sell the Tivo on ebay? Then you could move on from Tivo, since you're done and all.

I take exception to the suggestion. People selling legacy TiVo and DirecTiVo units on eBay is just another process that is adding to the perception that DirecTV and Tivo are still selling legacy equipment when both companies have not been doing so for some time in preparation for the digital switch.

In a similar situation DirecTV began telling dealers to warn customers about their own switch (to the new HD satellites) at least two years ago but rouge dealers and eBay gray or black market sellers have continued to sell units like the HR10-250 and blatantly lie or omit the information that when the switch is complete 50% of the functionality of this unit will be lost. I just checked on eBay before writing this post and there are at least 50 of them for sale and a couple of them are listed as brand new with no mention of the loss of HD channels.

In my case I live in an area where I can only receive 1 HD channel OTA so I will be limited to SD satellite only after the change and many of my customers are in the same boat.

As to the OP's issue all I can say is that I certainly see both sides of the issue. In my example of the HR10-250 my thought was shame on TiVo (ha ha)for making such a reliable DVR that I did not need to replace it before the whole technology by which HD video is compressed advanced to MPEG4. :)

For the OP I guess it matters to me when they purchased the unit, what they were told, and who sold it to them. Blaming TiVo for someone other than TiVo selling you a legacy piece of equipment is not really fair. However when someone activates a legacy piece of equipment with DirecTV or TiVo I strongly feel they should have always always always informed the customer about the loss of HD channels when the switch was complete. DirecTV only recently started doing this and I hear everyday that so and so just bought a DVR from XYZ Satellite (a DirecTV dealer) and no one said anything about half of the box not working soon BEFORE they agreed to a service contract. There is a bit of legal misrepresentation going on here it is just not completely clear who bears what percentage of guilt.

DirecTV's hands have certainly not been clean in the past. I have it on good authority that when Murdock acquired controlling stock one of the first things he did was look for ways to free DirecTV from TiVo lifetime subscriptions. His legal reasoning was vague...something about the subscription follows the original Tivo box and not the customer. His business reasoning was that TiVo customers who lost their lifetime sub would be infuriated with TiVo (whom he disliked profusely...well actually just its CEO) and would then switch to DirecTV's newly released in-house DVR and henceforth all DVR fees from these customers would then be paid to DirecTV. Whenever a lifetime subscriber would call to activate new equipment they would quietly delete the lifetime sub and add the DVR fee (this happened to me). It took threats of a class action lawsuit by several customers who caught on to stop this dead in its tracks. As a result it never made the news and most customers never heard about it. Thank God Murdock is gone...Tivo is back and customer service has most definitely improved!

I feel at this point that the majority of corporate America is so devoid of ethics that unless groups like Consumers Union investigate and pursue these companies for use of such tactics they will continue to fleece their customers infinitum. But does that apply to this situation with the OP or not? Is this a "trick" or is the consumer uneducated? We may never know.

Not everyone is as tech savvy as the frequenters to this board and I try to remember that before I flame anyone. I simply pretend my 92 year old Grandmother is asking the question and I tend to have little more patients. She still can't understand the amazing technology that allows her to make the newscaster stop talking while she gets up for a glass of water. I told her it’s just the “Pah-ooze-eh” button and it’s French or something. :D

[magnus]

You've got to be kidding there is nothing to take exception to. The DT and the HR10-250 both still serve a purpose. Some people actually prefer the HR10-250 to the crap DVRs that Directv is putting out. And the DT works perfectly as a dual tuner if you have analog cable.

The suggestion makes total sense and does nothing to deter from what Tivo or Directv are doing, you're reading too much into it.

Don't you think there is still a market for the single tuner Tivo? How about satellite users that for some reason do not want a Directv/Dish DVR?

[jrm01]

This reminded me of a marketing opportunity that Tivo has. If this has been done, my apologies.

Tivo knows what program line up each Tivo is using, right? So can't Tivo send out a message to all S1/S2 OTA users, that they will lose the OTA in Feb 2009, and should upgrade to the Tivo HD, and offer them a good upgrade deal?

They did that for S1 owners who were using OTA.

[DCIFRTHS]

What the hell are you talking about? ...

See. This is the type of response that turns people off.

[DCIFRTHS]

Generally logical informative answers require a complete question that includes the facts. Missing facts from the OP aside, the 9 of 10 posters simply are in the group of "angered subscriber with no leg to stand on". Some responders are being witty, some are over-reacting to a rant, and some are simply saying "huh?".

Right from the start you believe that 9 out of 10 posters are an "angered subscriber with no leg to stand on". Not the best of greetings in my book.


I very much disagree with your concern about the "regulars". On the whole, I've found the forum to be very useful. Yes, even when asking clear, intelligent questions I've received the entire spectrum of sarcastic, witty, what planet did you come from, wrong, and dead-on correct answers in the same thread. It simply shows the diversity of the users, not the nature of the forum. I'd expect no less.

We disagree, and that's fine by me. All I can add is that I used to really enjoy browsing this forum. It started to bring me down when I noticed that many first time posters apologized before they even got their question typed on the page. The same tired one liners, sarcasm and "search is your friend" type answers turn me off.


If the OP ever reads the responses to her thread, possibly she can distill the overall flavor and see that her expectations might be out of line with the experience of other TiVo users. Nothing more, nothing less.

I am not interested in the OP's responses. I reacted, and posted here because of the sarcasm, and abrasive responses that were posted to the OP's question.

[DCIFRTHS]

The TiVo Series 2 DT does not, has not, and will not support OTA. IT DOESN'T SUPPORT OTA.

The box is cable or satellite ONLY. It is not affected in ANY way by the February analog switch.


You state an obvious point, and I stand corrected with regard to the post you responded to. Unfortunately, I almost skipped right over your second post (quoted above). Maybe next time, you can do more to make your post stand out from the crowd ;)

[DCIFRTHS]

What an entertaining thread!

I too want to share my thoughts, but given that the OP has left the building, let's shut this one down as it is no longer serving a purpose (pot/kettle/black, however, as I am bumping this by commenting myself).

I will attest to what was stated by many: this is a great community full of helpful people willing to answer any questions if you only take the time to ask.


Yes: There are many great posters here that are willing to bend over backward to help other members out.

Yes: People should ask their questions in a calm respectful manner.

Yes: It bothers me when a poster gets attacked - don't confuse "attacked" with "called out" - when a more lighthearted response could get the same information.

Some people do not know forum etiquette. Pointing them to an FAQ, instead of attacking them for it, would be the more productive response.

[DCIFRTHS]

... Start a with a title "Tiv0 - we're done. Your loss" and provide almost no information about the situation or why you are upset. You are going to get a lot of "unhelpful" responses. The OP did ask for help, they just wanted to vent. Some posters even tried to ask what the problem was in an attempt to help and still got no response. With that attitude you are not going to see much sympathy.

Sympathy is not the goal here. My point is that the "unhelpful" responses you refer to are usually unnecessary, and serve two negative purposes:

(1) They perpetuate the thread.

(2) They allow the author of the "unhelpful" post to release some stress or prove how witty they are. Which is just as bad as what the original poster did.

IMO, the OP is already pissed off, and the best way to get rid of a rant is to just not respond to it. It will quickly fade away. Especially if it has no merit.

[chip_r]

Right from the start you believe that 9 out of 10 posters are an "angered subscriber with no leg to stand on". Not the best of greetings in my book.Yes, most responders believed she was out there. Some sort of reasonable behavior should be expected of any visitor in any situation. At least the ones over 18 years old ...

Funny story here ...

My daughter had a friend visit one day (her first time) and soon after arriving helped herself to the fridge, dug around and complained that the yogurt wasn't the brand she liked. Yes, just a kid and we shrugged it off but still bad visitor behavior.

Possibly because the yogurt was the wrong brand, the forum should have shrugged the OP off.

We never invited the kid back :)

[jkalnin]

My TivoHD doesn't get PPV or OnDemand. When the new Tivos come out I fully expect Tivo to give me a free upgrade and transfer my lifetime over to the new free box. Otherwise, I'll come here and complain and make a lot of noise. Thanks to those of you who "get it". The rest of you are mean, I'm outty.

[ZeoTiVo]

So the world is going digital. Fine.

I have been a Tivo customer, devotee and advocate since their service was introduced to me (3-4 yrs ago +/-) and before they had any competition (DVR).

I called to disconnect one of my two Tivo accounts earlier in the year, as the box was malfunctioning (a Tivo box). I was convinced by a zealous customer service agent to maintain the 2nd acct as they would send me a "deeply reduced price" replacement box that had added capability (tape two shows at once--wow!)

Come to find out this feature is rendered useless in the new all-digital world we are entering.

Talked to three Tivo customer service reps at Tivo today to find out that none of them are empowered by the company to recognize that the relationship with me -- a longtime, loyal customer, is more important than a 30 day return period; or is empowered to do whatever is necessary (very little, in fact) to maintaining me as a devoted customer and keep me from moving over to the competition.

I am deeply disappointed, but also warn senior management and, more importantly, I warn share-holders that this company is doomed for failure. While they might have at one time, they no longer "own the market" (DVR), and letting customers like me go without a fight is a clear signal that the competition has the edge.


I am not interested in the OP's responses. I reacted, and posted here because of the sarcasm, and abrasive responses that were posted to the OP's question.
show me the question in the OP!?

The person had a faulty single tuner Series 2. Did she care enough then to do a simple Google on faulty TiVo - find this place and get many helpful responses on fixing it? No. She took the option of calling TiVo. TiVo gave them a better box that had dual tuners (DT) at a deep discount. The other option was probably fix the first one for 150$. Ok- they took it
then the cable company went all digital (we assume) and the DT was rendered a single tuner again. Still the person had their box fixed, had more hard drive space, had a direct ethernet jack all for less than half of what TiVo normally charges for a repair.
Does she ask if this is good or bad? Nope, now motivated to put out a public rant to feel better by "HURTING" TiVo she finds this forum and unloads a rant that shows she really did not know what she was bitching about. If she wants to go there, then I have no sunny rainbows for her. She gets storm clouds and can either adjust her attitude towards the forum or go take her whiny self someplace else.
The fact that TiVo wanted to retain their customer and did what they needed to was beside my point in replying like I did. If my kids had behaved in such a manner they would get storm clouds as well and be expected to change their attitude.

[MickeS]

See. This is the type of response that turns people off.

Pretend "the hell" isn't there. I was honestly baffled that anyone could say it was in any way TiVos responsibility 6 months after the purchase to correct a problem that was caused by the cable company shutting off analog service, and that they could not reasonably have anticipated.

[MickeS]

show me the question in the OP!?

The person had a faulty single tuner Series 2. Did she care enough then to do a simple Google on faulty TiVo - find this place and get many helpful responses on fixing it? No. She took the option of calling TiVo. TiVo gave them a better box that had dual tuners (DT) at a deep discount. The other option was probably fix the first one for 150$. Ok- they took it
then the cable company went all digital (we assume) and the DT was rendered a single tuner again. Still the person had their box fixed, had more hard drive space, had a direct ethernet jack all for less than half of what TiVo normally charges for a repair.
Does she ask if this is good or bad? Nope, now motivated to put out a public rant to feel better by "HURTING" TiVo she finds this forum and unloads a rant that shows she really did not know what she was bitching about. If she wants to go there, then I have no sunny rainbows for her. She gets storm clouds and can either adjust her attitude towards the forum or go take her whiny self someplace else.
The fact that TiVo wanted to retain their customer and did what they needed to was beside my point in replying like I did. If my kids had behaved in such a manner they would get storm clouds as well and be expected to change their attitude.

Well said.

[ZeoTiVo]

It started to bring me down when I noticed that many first time posters apologized before they even got their question typed on the page. The same tired one liners, sarcasm and "search is your friend" type answers turn me off.
and do those that "apologize" or start off in some other other way that is civilized get the sarcasm or "same back at ya" replies? Hmmm.........

[dianebrat]

I do give the OP a lot of credit for coming back and continuing the fruitless discussion as opposed to the usual new user rant single post carpet bombing, never to return.

[ZeoTiVo]

I don't agree. We have a DVR on our HD TV and it has cool functionality that Tivo doesn't, including function as a dual tuner. As an avid Tivo fan, though, I wanted to keep my other two boxes. Not anymore.

Refund on the dual tuner box, refund on my monthly charge for that second box that kept me as a 2 tuner cutomer, as they knew it would revert to a single tuner box.

Why, do you work for Tivo?

LOL right backatcha. Spent more than 4 hours with Tivo trying to fix the problem, AND get them to understand the importance of maintaining the relationship with a loyal and avid fan of Tivo. To no avail. Time to break up.

If they sold me a dual tuner that will be rendered a single tuner, they owe me a refund and they can have it back. How it that confusing?

In point of fact, "OP" joined the TCF to find an outlet for her frustration (and has found many others elsewhere who share it). My mistake, clearly this is Tivo Lovers Central, and no one here seems to "get'" the basic tenets behind customer service and customer loyalty. It would cost Tivo about $100 to fix this problem (take back my box, refund a few months of montly service for this box). How much have they made off of me during my years as a customer, including but not limited to the dozens (hundreds?) of Tivo customers who came on board as I sang it's praises? It's the relationsip they are losing. Priceless.

The box was $69, the few months of monthly fees brings it up to $100. I am not the expert; Tivo is. I have a full time job and life, no time to research if what Tivo is telling me they are selling me is, in fact, what they are selling me.
emphasis added by me..
the OP wanted to be branded an avid Tivo fan and loyal customer. yet she never once mentioned getting a Tivo HD to do what her 'cool' cable company DVR did nor did she even want to spend much money. Why do so many people equate loyal customer to someone wanting a handout from the company versus paying fair value for a product they consider good?

Frankly the discussion was fruitless because the OP kept coming back but never bothered to comprehend what others were telling her because of her full life or whatever.

I am indeed loosing interest in this pointless continuation of a silly start to a thread as well but people just keep saying the silliest things as if the OP is the victim of something other than herself :rolleyes:

[ThreeSoFar'sBro]

This is definitely an early favorite for "Most Frustrating Thread of the Year."

[justapixel]

Heh. The "long time" TiVo owner "tapes" shows. :)

I was convinced by a zealous customer service agent to maintain the 2nd acct as they would send me a "deeply reduced price" replacement box that had added capability (tape two shows at once--wow!)

I thought everybody behaved very well in response to her extremely negative attitude. I expected flames and didn't see them. Good job. :)

[TexasGrillChef]

Not to nit-pick but that is comparing an analog device to a digital one.
It's more like comparing a Cadillac to a Pinto. ;)

Whys that? I loved my pinto when I was 16.... I even blew it up! Seriously!

It was alot more fun than my mom's Cadillac! LOL

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

Indeed, this is exactly what I am talking about. Forgive me all for not explaining it in a way that works with your geekier brains (that's a compliment to you).

I understood.... Thing of it is.. the digital switch over isn't TiVo's fault.
Nor is it their fault if you choose Verizon, or any other cable service that has dropped or will be dropping analog cable service.

TiVo has in fact released 3 TiVo's that ARE Digital ready. They are called the S3, HD, & HDXL.

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

Refund on the dual tuner box, refund on my monthly charge for that second box that kept me as a 2 tuner cutomer, as they knew it would revert to a single tuner box.

Why, do you work for Tivo?

Do you want a refund on your NON-HD TV set too? I mean TV makers like Sony, Toshiba, RCA, LG, Samsung, Etc... all new that HD/Digital was coming for the last 10 years... & that analog was going to be phased out. So I guess you should try and return your TV too. Because they neglected to tell you 10 years ago that in 2009 we would be going digital & that you would need a tuner box, or be on a cable/sat service to continue watching TV.

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

Tivo tells me mine will not. This person explained it well:

Originally Posted by ah30k
I think that what he is saying is that the S2-DT will only work in "dual" mode if there are analog channels present.

If Verizon is all digital and you need a STB to tune then the S2 is rendered into a single tuner box.

Nellie,

Are you using OTA, or cable? If your on cable your S2 DT will continue to work until your cable company DROPS analog service. Currently the soonest any of the cable companies will start dropping analog cable service is in 2010.

So the ONLY analog service that is going away is, OTA in February. Unless your on Verizon, & verizon isn't really a cable company. It's Fios.

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

Tivo didn't see this coming? I am quite sure they did (and one the CS agents with whom I spoke said they were getting lots of calls like mine).

Yes, TiVo saw this coming. That is why they came out with THREE Digital/HD TiVos... the S3, HD, HDXL.

Now the CSR you ORIGINALLY spoke with, SHOULD have offered you a S3 or HD unit. That is where TiVo made the mistake.

TGC

[TexasGrillChef]

The box was $69, the few months of monthly fees brings it up to $100. I am not the expert; Tivo is. I have a full time job and life, no time to research if what Tivo is telling me they are selling me is, in fact, what they are selling me.

Hey Give me a call I have some swamp land in florida to sell. I also have the phone number of my brother he sells cars too....

Uh.... I have a life, I have a job, I have a family, & I have sick mother with cancer to take care of as well. I still have time to research EVERYTHING I buy that is over $200.

Ever heard the term "Caveat emptor" --- (Buyer Beware).....

If you don't do the research... before you buy.. you have no one to blame but yourself.

TGC

[lrhorer]

I have to defend the OP a little bit, because I don't think her expectations are totally unreasonable
It's pretty hard to be totally unreasonable. There is very little reasonableness in the OP's posts, however.

Even if they did do their research though, I think it would be very easy to miss this because so many people (both here and in professional reviews) kept repeating that the "digital transition" had nothing to do with cable subscribers and hence they had nothing to worry about. While this may be technically true, it ignores the fact that most cable companies have been planning on making a total digital transition, and many are doing so around the same time as the OTA cut-off.
This is false, which is one of the big problems we are having with the OP's posts. Very few, if any, CATV companies are switching to all digital with the February transition. Most are continuing to deliver analog services for another year or more. This is what makes the OP's rant so puzzling. She is claiming her TiVo will be forced into single tuner mode, and we are having difficulty seeing how this is the case. Since she ignores our requests to clarify her situation, and as such we can't readily address her situation.

In my parents case they received notice that the switch will be happening in the first half of the year.
Most CATV companies are not planning to switch until 2010, if then. Unless her provider is one of the early conversions and she had mentioned this to Tivo, there is no way the CSR would have known.

[lrhorer]

Uh.... I have a life, I have a job, I have a family, & I have sick mother with cancer to take care of as well. I still have time to research EVERYTHING I buy that is over $200.
Exactly. Then she calls me "harsh" for basically telling her she needs to grow up and take responsibility for herself. She should visit some of us like you and some of the rest of us with real problems. Then she'll know what "harsh" is.

I'm not sure what it will take for her to realize we all have jobs and lives, yet as responsible adults we take the time to do our research, and then take responsibility for our own failures if our research falls short. This particular bit of research would not have taken ten minutes - she coule have done it online while she had TiVo on the phone - assuming she has broadband internet service.

Ever heard the term "Caveat emptor" --- (Buyer Beware).....
Apparently not.

If you don't do the research... before you buy.. you have no one to blame but yourself.
Oooh, TGC, but that's so harsh!... Not.

[lrhorer]

Wow. 45 posts attacking/defending this and no-one knows if the OP will actually be affected by the transition yet!
I know, and the OP refuses to answer. 'Best I can tell, she won't be.

[lrhorer]

The OT thanks you. You nailed it in a number of ways,
He did not "nail it" at all, since the post was factually incorrect. The same seems to be true of your posts, but since you seem totally disinclined to clarify your issue, there is little we can do other than point out you are whining and encourage you to stop.[/QUOTE]

[ZeoTiVo]

He did not "nail it" at all, since the post was factually incorrect. The same seems to be true of your posts, but since you seem totally disinclined to clarify your issue, there is little we can do other than point out you are whining and encourage you to stop.[/QUOTE]

unfortunately, I no longer think this was a real case but a troll posting

[lrhorer]

unfortunately, I no longer think this was a real case but a troll posting
I suspect that, myself, but regardless, we need to address the false aspects of the postings in order to help prevent FUD.

[dianebrat]

It was alot more fun than my mom's Cadillac! LOL
TGC

I understood....
TGC

TGC

Nellie..
TGC

Yes....TGC

....
TGC

Dude, multiquote is your friend here, it would have been a lot easier for us to read. just saying...

Diane