New Time Warner Policy? No SCards in Tivos

[convergent]

I have had Series 2 Tivos for several years and just got a new Tivo HD a couple of days ago. I called and scheduled Time Warner to come and install cable cards. I was told that they had no MCards (Multi-Stream) and that they would be installing two SCards. The technician came today and tried to install them. He seemed to be very experienced and said that he had even installed two SCards in a Tivo last night. After several minutes of error messages, and discussion with Time Warner on the phone, he was routed to Time Warner Cable Card support. He was told by the supervisor there that Time Warner had a new policy (supposedly dictated by Tivo) that they were not to install SCards in Tivos anymore. The guy even disabled the SCards that the technician was trying to install so that they would not work at all. Prior to that, one of them would work, but he couldn't get them paired to both work.

The technician called someone that he said was the owner of his company. He was told that they would try to find an MCard. A half hour later the owner called back and told the technician that the main warehouse for this part of the state didn't have any, and that they'd have to reschedule for someone else to come back with an MCard. The dispatch supervisor is supposed to call me back shortly to arrange for the MCard installation.

Has anyone else heard of this? This supervisor at Time Warner Cable Card support seems to have some weight (I was told he was with a national support group, so this is not a local policy he's talking about but for all of Time Warner), as they were able to get all of this stuff in motion, and disable the cards that were trying to be installed. The technician seemed very surprised by all of this and was very apologetic. He even spent some time explaining that there was some resistance by the technicians to go to the MCards because they actually got paid twice as much to install two SCards as they did to install one MCard. In the end, I wanted an MCard to start with, but was told I couldn't have one... and now I'm being told that is the only thing Time Warner will install.

So now I have an analog only situation with my Tivo HD until this is resolved.

[restart88]

Let me take a shot in the dark here. I'm guessing that Tivo entered into an agreement to have M cards installed exclusively so people wouldn't have the rental issue on 2 cards, except TW Regional didn't bother to have the cards in stock.

I'm not sure about a policy of killing a perfectly good card to (what I assume) prevent an agreement infringement by having 1 card installed while waiting for the proper card to arrive but I can say I've never had good experiences with TW and this seems typical of my own experiences in the past with TW of putting the customer last. That said, my area became Brighthouse and to me they seem light years better! even if they are loosely in a TW relationship.

[convergent]

Well the technician and his manager seem to be wanting to do whatever it takes to make this work, but it seems like Time Warner proper is trying to enforce this new policy. The only thing about it that seemed kind of hard to believe was the idea that Tivo could "mandate" something to Time Warner. I wouldn't think that Time Warner would listen to Tivo on anything like that, and would rather do whatever they want and what is best for them. The bottom line is the difference in what I pay monthly to Time Warner is a small percentage between a cable card and a cable box, compared to the overall monthly fee.

[ikey78]

I scheduled an installation of cable cards for two Tivo HD XL boxes a few weeks ago. I told them I needed either two S cards or one M card for each box.

The tech showed up on time and said he was going to install two S cards in each unit as he had done several times before. He put in the first S card and called in to activate it. He was told that there was a new Time Warner policy that they would only activate M cards. Fortunately he had two M cards and was able to install and activate them without any problems.

I am not sure why they changed to M cards. Perhaps it has something to do with the future deployment of Tuning Adapters. He said they were coming up with a way for us to get all the channels we are missing by the end of January but he was not familiar with the concept of the Tuning Adapter.

All of this relates to TW Southwestern Ohio in the Dayton area. Seem to be missing relatively few channels, presumably due to SDV.

[jbkendrick]

I have spent the last week trying to get a multistream card for my new TiVo HD XL. After several hours on the phone, waiting for techs to show up for the last two days, and each time the tech shows up with single stream cards that don't work.

Comcast, even their supervisors, are playing dumb acting like they don't know what a multstream card is, and only agreeing to send a tech out after I site the FCC regulation. The techs say when they arrive that they can't get the cards, and the single stream cards they have in stock are mostly damaged. They also state that there is nothing on the work order that indicates a multistream is needed, even though the supervisors say they put it in the order.

I'm about ready to return my TiVo and cancel service, and would warn others not to go with TiVo as it seems the major carriers are refusing to support it. You're not alone . . . John

I have had Series 2 Tivos for several years and just got a new Tivo HD a couple of days ago. I called and scheduled Time Warner to come and install cable cards. I was told that they had no MCards (Multi-Stream) and that they would be installing two SCards. The technician came today and tried to install them. He seemed to be very experienced and said that he had even installed two SCards in a Tivo last night. After several minutes of error messages, and discussion with Time Warner on the phone, he was routed to Time Warner Cable Card support. He was told by the supervisor there that Time Warner had a new policy (supposedly dictated by Tivo) that they were not to install SCards in Tivos anymore. The guy even disabled the SCards that the technician was trying to install so that they would not work at all. Prior to that, one of them would work, but he couldn't get them paired to both work.

The technician called someone that he said was the owner of his company. He was told that they would try to find an MCard. A half hour later the owner called back and told the technician that the main warehouse for this part of the state didn't have any, and that they'd have to reschedule for someone else to come back with an MCard. The dispatch supervisor is supposed to call me back shortly to arrange for the MCard installation.

Has anyone else heard of this? This supervisor at Time Warner Cable Card support seems to have some weight (I was told he was with a national support group, so this is not a local policy he's talking about but for all of Time Warner), as they were able to get all of this stuff in motion, and disable the cards that were trying to be installed. The technician seemed very surprised by all of this and was very apologetic. He even spent some time explaining that there was some resistance by the technicians to go to the MCards because they actually got paid twice as much to install two SCards as they did to install one MCard. In the end, I wanted an MCard to start with, but was told I couldn't have one... and now I'm being told that is the only thing Time Warner will install.

So now I have an analog only situation with my Tivo HD until this is resolved.

[convergent]

John... your situation is really completely separate from what this thread is about. For one thing, I'm talking specifically about a Time Warner policy and your situation is with Comcast. I'd ask to keep this thread about the original topic as I'm trying to find out if this really is a new Time Warner policy, or I'm getting jerked around. The policy, if true, is a good thing for Time Warner customers using Tivos, as it would cost less. Clearly all the people I'm dealing with at Time Warner - technician, his tech support, his boss, and TW Cable Card support all know what an MCard is and are talking knowledgeably about it. They are all also well aware of Tivos.

[lafos]

This is very interesting. I'm currently paying for 4 cards, and hesitated to put cards in my two new HDs. But if they are going to m-cards, then I'd be adding about $5/month for them. I couldn't get m-cards about a year ago. I'm also in the Dayton area, and will be calling TWC in the near future.

Are they still making s-cards?

[berkshires]

So are they proposing to put two M-cards in S3s?

[richsadams]

I have spent the last week trying to get a multistream card for my new TiVo HD XL. After several hours on the phone, waiting for techs to show up for the last two days, and each time the tech shows up with single stream cards that don't work.

Comcast, even their supervisors, are playing dumb acting like they don't know what a multstream card is, and only agreeing to send a tech out after I site the FCC regulation. The techs say when they arrive that they can't get the cards, and the single stream cards they have in stock are mostly damaged. They also state that there is nothing on the work order that indicates a multistream is needed, even though the supervisors say they put it in the order.

I'm about ready to return my TiVo and cancel service, and would warn others not to go with TiVo as it seems the major carriers are refusing to support it. You're not alone . . . JohnSee my advice to your dilemma here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6963835#post6963835).

BTW, avoid cross posting, the moderators can get cranky. ;)

[bobrt6676]

I scheduled an installation of cable cards for two Tivo HD XL boxes a few weeks ago. I told them I needed either two S cards or one M card for each box.

The tech showed up on time and said he was going to install two S cards in each unit as he had done several times before. He put in the first S card and called in to activate it. He was told that there was a new Time Warner policy that they would only activate M cards. Fortunately he had two M cards and was able to install and activate them without any problems

I am not sure why they changed to M cards. Perhaps it has something to do with the future deployment of Tuning Adapters. He said they were coming up with a way for us to get all the channels we are missing by the end of January but he was not familiar with the concept of the Tuning Adapter.

All of this relates to TW Southwestern Ohio in the Dayton area. Seem to be missing relatively few channels, presumably due to SDV.

This is great information, I have tried to get an M-card for 6 months but was told they don't carry M-cards only S-cards. This can save me 2.95/mo.:cool:

I count 9 missing channels due to SDV in the Dayton market so far. 769 ESPNU, 772 HMHD, 775 CNNHD, 777 PLDHD, 780 APLHD, 781 SCIHD, 782 ESPN NEWS, 783 GOLFHD, 178 MLBN :(

[szurlo]

I got a TivoHD just before Christmas. I called TWC and asked for 2 S-cards. The installer showed up with one M-card which worked fine after a few hours of tinkering. I just assumed they were out of s-cards or someone just screwed up and sent the installer with an M-card. Now reading this thread I wonder. The CSR I talked to to place the order knew what s-cards were and said I would be getting two s-cards installed.
I just got my first bill and the M-card was $2.54. Works for me.

[convergent]

So are they proposing to put two M-cards in S3s?

No, they are putting one M-Card into "front loading" Tivos. That is what the technician was told is the new Time Warner policy. I guess they are serious about this. When he was here this afternoon, the owner called and told him that the main warehouse which serves about 7 NC counties, including Wake County, was out of M-Cards. He called me a few hours later after leaving and said that the supervisor was driving somewhere to get M-Cards. He called a few minutes ago and said he now has the M-Card and can install it tonight at 8PM if I wish. I have to say that the local team here has handled this very well, and definitely gone the extra mile to a) comply with Time Warner's new policy, and b) to get the customer going as quickly as possible.

The amazing thing is that I asked for an M-card to start with because they charge the same for an S-card and M-card per month, and so I would only need one card instead of two. They said they didn't have M-cards, which apparently was true, and I accepted the alternative. Now I end up getting what I want to start with. I wonder if Tivo really did dictate this to Time Warner... or maybe the mutually figured out it was less trouble and easier to install one card vs. two.

[itsvincer]

I am waiting for delivery of an HD Tivo, so we'll see what happens when I call for my cablecard here w Time Warner Liberty, Orange County NY service.

[ZeoTiVo]

a little over a year ago I treid to get cable cards for my TiVo HD near Charlotte NC and TWC could not get it working and only had S-cards- I finally just went and got an OTA antenna and told TWC to forget about it.

This gives me great hope that they may do lots better this time as I have a TiVo HD on its way from my cashing in year end bonus points. That one will go downstairs and I will definitely like to get some digital goodness on it.

[lafos]

I count 9 missing channels due to SDV in the Dayton market so far. 769 ESPNU, 772 HMHD, 775 CNNHD, 777 PLDHD, 780 APLHD, 781 SCIHD, 782 ESPN NEWS, 783 GOLFHD, 178 MLBN :(

Do you get 702 NBC?

[lowepg]

Gawd.... I had to replace my first s3 HD and it was like pulling teeth to get TWC (Cary, NC) to get the cards installed and provisioned correctly. I'd really hoped they would have gotten their act together by now.

The worst part was explaining to 4 different people on the phone why I needed 2 cards.... I should have just said I have 2 devices I needed cards for.... One dumb CSR after another on the phone.... kinda like the drive-thru lane at McDonalds- dumb as a box of rocks and barely able to speak english.... "Sir, you cant ax for 2 cards for 1 tv, I jus axed my manager and she said the same thing" ARG!

I really wish they would just send cards out and let me call the NOC or whatever to get them provisioned myself....sigh.

[convergent]

Well lowepg, I'm in the same market ast you... Raleigh. I think the techs come from Cary as I'm in Wake County near Lake Wheeler. This poor guy really put a lot of hours in today unnecessarily it seems. He was back at 8pm and spent an hour and a half getting the MCard to work. It took a while to unravel my account because they still had the two disfunctional SCards on it. Then a while to get the card configured... then a good hour trying to get it to show my channels. It seemed like the guy on the other end had to provision nearly every channel... but he said it was a lot of packages that had to be done. But then it only got up to about 250 and no other channels would come in. After a half hour of fiddling, we re-started the Tivo and then no channels would come in on CableCard Test Channels. So they bumped him to that same national support center that originally started this whole MCard journey. The guy there told him two things. First, that there were 120 channels that were switched that I wouldn't get (I don't think I get most of them anyways, but a few I believe I do... I don't have any premium channels), and second... that the original guy on the phone had to close the ticket in order for all the channels to get released. Apparently closing the ticket causes the device to be refreshed. So the tech called back the first guy and told him to close the ticket and then everything started working. So he wasted about 45 minutes unnecessarily.

Now I seem to have it all working, but I've not gone through the Tivo setup again to get all the channels into Guide, and the family wants to watch a movie so that will have to wait. The troubling thing is the tech told me that his boss had him give those two SCards to another tech to go install somewhere else with another customer. Hopefully it wasn't in a Tivo HD, but he didn't say. They do have MCards now as his boss drove up to somewhere and got them this afternoon. I'm just glad I got a tech that cared about it as he stuck with this problem and gave me his personal cellphone number to stay in contact with him as this was getting sorted out this afternoon. He also told me to feel free to call him again if anything isn't working right.

I signed up for the adapter that will allow me to correctly receive the switched channels and hopefully they will become available here soon.

[ikey78]

Do you get 702 NBC?

I get 702 707 722 and 745 in the Dayton market using the M Card.

I can also get all the locals such as 2-1 OTA with an attic antenna and I see no difference in quality or content compared to cable. If a broadcast is in HD OTA eg 2-1 it is the same on the cable equivalent 702. For example, the Today show on NBC is in HD on every day except Saturday. On both 2-1 and 702 it is standard def on Saturday only. Even Sunday is HD. Unclear why they do this and if that is the case in other markets.

[lowepg]

Well lowepg, I'm in the same market ast you... Raleigh.


*snip*

I'm just glad I got a tech that cared about it as he stuck with this problem and gave me his personal cellphone number to stay in contact with him as this was getting sorted out this afternoon.

Yup- the 2 installs I went through (and one neighbors I helped with) had decent field techs- but the folks on the phone were terrible.

Actually, i think all the field people are 3rd party contractors- not TWC employees.... go figure.

The first guy that came out to do my S3 was the best- he actually brought 6 or 7 s-cards. He said, "half these things dont work- Im sick of making extra trips becuase a card failed right out of the packaging"

The 2nd guy never did a TiVo before, but was willing to follow my directions- a relief since his instructions conflicted. I basically printed out some steps right from TiVo and he followed along.... actually took a copy with him on the way out.

It's been a real frustration with TWC. I cant help thinking these stand-alones have just barely caught up to the functionality I had YEARS ago when we had directTV. Other than the PITA of running an extra cable to each tuner- they worked like a charm!

[convergent]

Yeh, the instructions thing is kind of interesting too. I told the guy when he first came with the SCards that the instructions said to get the slot 1 card working first, and then do the same for the second card. He basically ignored what I said and kept putting them both in. Whenever he would take the 2nd card out, the first one seemed to be working, but when he popped in the 2nd one it would get an error and throw him in a loop. He never looked at the Tivo instructions that came with the Tivo HD, and he never listened to me. But in fairness to him, he had installed them before so seemed to know what to expect and wasn't getting it.

[bobrt6676]

Do you get 702 NBC?

Yes, no problems with any local HD feeds.

[steve614]

What I want to know is will this policy force Tivo to update the original S3 to work with M-cards or does TW know the difference?

[esb1981]

You can put two MCards in an S3 in lieu of two SCards.

[netringer]

What I want to know is will this policy force Tivo to update the original S3 to work with M-cards or does TW know the difference?

The original S3 works fine with M-Cards. It just takes two for dual tuner, where the later models only need one.

Am there. Doing that.

[convergent]

What I want to know is will this policy force Tivo to update the original S3 to work with M-cards or does TW know the difference?

It remains to be seen if this is really a new policy or not. If it is, what I was told was it applied to "front loading" Tivos... which would not apply to the original S3.

[George Cifranci]

I have a Tivo Series 3 and in fact one of my two S-Cards went bad and since TW didn't have any more S-Cards they replaced it with an M-Card and it works fine (it just runs in S-Mode). So having 2 M-Cards in a Series 3 should work fine as they would just run in S-Mode.

[steve614]

Of course! Why I thought they ( M cable cards) would not be 'backwards compatible' I don't know. :o

[bowema]

Yup- the 2 installs I went through (and one neighbors I helped with) had decent field techs- but the folks on the phone were terrible.

Actually, i think all the field people are 3rd party contractors- not TWC employees.... go figure.

I must have been talking with the same folks as you, although I am in Fayetteville. This whole Tivo thing has been a bad dream for me. Just as in the movie --> A Christmas Carol, I was visited by 3 TWC ghosts.

1. The Tech from Christmas past, who had no earthly idea what a cable card was or how to install it. Come to find out after questioning him that he was a 3rd party contractor who picked the card up at the dispatchers desk that morning. After he tried several times to install, he disappeared. (with a little help from me :mad:)

several days later...

2. The tech from Christmas present, who was on time and had 2 scards in tow. He knew what the cards were as he had heard how to do it from a friend of a friend of a friend who installed one last year. The problem was this time with the brain on the other end of the phone, who had to axed her supv. what to do. By the time they finished with me, I had only extended channels working. He had to run to another appointment, but called his boss who assured me that he would come out himself that Saturday.

Following Saturday...

3. You Guessed it, the Dispatcher himself from Christmas yet to come who called that Saturday morning and told me they had no cards in the warehouse. After complaining to several Supervisors that day, a mcard showed up at my house the following Saturday with the Dispatcher who vowed to stay until the job was completed. Somehow, several hours later I had most of my channels working.

Now I am faced with the prospect of axeding these same people for a tuning adapter :eek: !!

[convergent]

Well we are at the same point... I need the Tuning Adapter too. From what I've read, the installation is user install and everything else automatically works. I can only hope.

By the way, your Christmas Carol analogy was hilarious.

[mindchaotica]

it is hearing things like this that make me happy i don't have to deal with Time Warner. that and the fact they almost lost Viacom programming. When I hear things like this, it makes me happy I have Comcast.

[convergent]

it is hearing things like this that make me happy i don't have to deal with Time Warner. that and the fact they almost lost Viacom programming. When I hear things like this, it makes me happy I have Comcast.

I'm not sure I follow you on your comment. The thread is talking about them going to MCards, which is a good thing... cheaper for the consumer. And "almost losing" programming had no effect on any consumer at all, unless they chose to get themselves worked up about the possible outcome. If anything, the strong stance and negotiation resulted in possible lower fees if they were able to get a lower price for the Viacom programming. The only negative effect on me is that their support lines were flooded with people calling (why they were calling is beyond me) and I had to wait forever to get connected to have my appointment to get my cable card installed.

[ncbagwell]

I am also in Cary, NC. My S3 is working fine now (and has been for a while) with two S-Cards. My fear is that when we finally get the tuning adapter, it will mess up my S-Cards and I'll have to go through the whole mess again to get M-Cards. Ugh.

One question - did i read it correctly above that since I have an older S3, I will have to get 2 m-cards if I want dual tuner? I bought my S3 about 3 months after they came out.

[ZeoTiVo]

One question - did i read it correctly above that since I have an older S3, I will have to get 2 m-cards if I want dual tuner? I bought my S3 about 3 months after they came out.

no S3 works correctly with one Mcard. They will work fine with 2 Mcards however.

[convergent]

I thought the S3 needed two cards.... be them MCards or SCards. The Tivo HD can use a single MCard or two SCards.

ncbagwell, my understanding is that the channel adapter goes in the coax line for cable coming into the Tivo, and it also has a USB connection. It shouldn't matter whether you have SCards or MCards really from the sounds of it.

[richsadams]

One question - did i read it correctly above that since I have an older S3, I will have to get 2 m-cards if I want dual tuner? I bought my S3 about 3 months after they came out.Your Series3 will continue to work fine with 2 "S" cable cards. As Zeo mentions, your Series3 would work fine if you only had one "M" cable card however your TiVo would only have single-tuner function. All Series3's require two cable cards...they can be "S" or "M" for dual-tuner functionality. TiVo HD's and HDXL's are able to take advantage of one "M" cable card for dual-tuner function.

There are no "older" or "newer" S3's; they are all the same. It appears that the OP meant that Series3's are "older" as compared to "newer" TiVo HD's and TiVo HDXL's.

[richsadams]

no S3 works correctly with one Mcard. They will work fine with 2 Mcards however.Oh wait...I had to re-read your post a couple of times. It's a little confusing (at least to Mike and me). It sounded like you were saying "No, a Series3 will work correctly with one M Card. In fact I think you're saying that Series3's do NOT in fact work correctly with one M Card, however they work fine with 2 "M" cards.

Got it now...phew! ;)

[convergent]

This is like the "who's on first". I think he was saying the Series 3 WOULD work with only one MCard, but it would only give you single tuner capability. The same MCard in a Tivo HD or HD XL would give you dual tuner capability. The original Series 3 needs two cards (either type) for dual tuner and one card (either type) for single tuner.

[richsadams]

This is like the "who's on first". I think he was saying the Series 3 WOULD work with only one MCard, but it would only give you single tuner capability. The same MCard in a Tivo HD or HD XL would give you dual tuner capability. The original Series 3 needs two cards (either type) for dual tuner and one card (either type) for single tuner.Ha, that's what I thought too...but based on Zeo's post here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6969396#post6969396) it seems there may in fact be an issue with trying to use one M cable card in a Series3. I've never tried it, but someone must have somewhere along the way. Okay, I think this horse is no longer on life support. ;)

BTW, Whats on second.