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View Full Version : Recording 2 shows at once - February 17


lef11
01-01-2009, 03:58 PM
Okay, I'm confused. Comcast is my provider and I own a Series 2. The Series 2 allows me to record two shows at once (one analog/one digital). Come February 17, does this mean I can only use one of the tuners and the other one is useless? Please help.

dianebrat
01-01-2009, 04:18 PM
You're on cable, nothing will change on Feb 17th

bkdtv
01-01-2009, 05:18 PM
The analog shutoff applies only to off-air signals, not cable signals.

Nothing will change so long as your cable provider retains their analog channels. Verizon FiOS shut off all analog signals in all markets and Comcast did something similar in a few markets. This has nothing to do with the shutoff, however; it was done for the express purpose of creating capacity for more channels. Each analog channel consumes the same space as 2-3 [digital] HDTV channels.

nlrushing
01-02-2009, 12:53 PM
now i am also confused, prob already was :)- regardless i was under the impression that come feb 17 when all channels supposedly go digital, that i would lose the functionality of my series 2 dual tuner unit, i have been unhappily trying to decide whether to bite the bullet and get the hd tuner or the series 3 hd unit in order to keep dual tuner availability. don't really want to -already have 2 tivos (all i needed) with lifetime service and wasnt sure what to do. are you telling me that i will still be able to have dual functionality if all channels are digital, the tivo clearly says gets one digital and one analog or 2 analog signals, but not 2 digital signals. i also highly dread an install with my already nightmare history with charter cable of cablecards, so if not necessary i would rather not upgrade if not needed to keep the dual tuner, i have become hopelessly dependent on this feature. your thoughts?

rocko
01-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Like others have said - the Feb. deadline applies to over-the-air broadcasts only. Your dual-tuner functionality will remain unchanged until such time that Charter decides to stop providing analog cable broadcasts. When that will happen only Charter knows. Contact them if you continue to be worried.

Turtleboy
01-02-2009, 01:42 PM
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/consumerist/2008/12/dtvflowchart.jpg

lew
01-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Turtleboy posted a very good flowchart BUT some cable systems are going digital only for any new stations that area added. Some cable systems may (wrongly) use the OTA changeover as an excuse to drop more analog channels.

I don't know how many cable systems will join FiOS in going digital only but you may see fewer analog stations. Although your cable system may not go to "digital only" the real question is if the stations you record will be digital only.

Dancar
01-02-2009, 02:04 PM
The February 17 event applies only to over-the-air broadcasts, not cable.

Cable providers will eventually convert their transmissions to digital, but they are free to set their own time table for this.

For example, in Seattle, after months of advertizing that Comcast customers "don't need to do anything" in February, they recently announced than in MARCH '09, channels 30-99 would be moved to the digital encrypted ban. This means that these channels would only be viewable by TVs and DVRs using cable boxes, cable cards, or DTA (sort of a simple cable box for basic cable only).

This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos which don't use cable cards, but it depends on what your cable company is doing and on what schedule.

I still have a Series I TiVo, and unless the TiVo is able to able to switch channels on the DTA, the old TiVo will become almost useless for recording.

scandia101
01-02-2009, 02:31 PM
are you telling me that i will still be able to have dual functionality if all channels are digital, the tivo clearly says gets one digital and one analog or 2 analog signals, but not 2 digital signals. your thoughts?

My first thought is that it's amazing how people can still get this wrong after being given the correct information.

Nothing is changing with your cable unless your cable company has sent you information that says it's changing. It will still be a mix of analog and digital channels for you to record from. The only thing changing is signal that your local stations send out over the air for people to receive through an antenna. That has been an analog signal, but that signal is being shut off in February. TV stations will be broadcasting in digital only. The signal for those channels that you get from the cable company will not change.

gastrof
01-02-2009, 03:02 PM
...This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos which don't use cable cards, but it depends on what your cable company is doing and on what schedule.

No Series 2 uses cable cards, but they do work with cable boxes, and such boxes will still be available for the Series 2 TiVos to control. They will therefore still be able to get the channels available to you on your cable service.

I still have a Series I TiVo, and unless the TiVo is able to able to switch channels on the DTA, the old TiVo will become almost useless for recording.

I've heard that the cheapo mini-cable boxes being used by some cable companies who go all-digital do use remote codes the Series 1 TiVos know.

If yours doesn't, likely a "real" cable box would be available that the TiVo CAN control.

There are also ways of making a Series 1 work with an OTA digital converter box.

nlrushing
01-02-2009, 06:50 PM
thanks so much, that is helpful to know, the part i didnt understand is that i didnt realize that it didnt mean that cable companies were not necessarily going to an all digital format. i thought i read on this forum previously that my dual tuner would lose its ability to receive dual signal when all of this comes about soon. i get a pretty awesome picture on my hdtv even without paying hd fees to charter, so if i am staying dual and spoiled by tivo then i see no need to pay them more money for new tivo boxes and subs, or to charter for cable cards. thanks again for your replies.

scandia101
01-02-2009, 07:21 PM
...This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos which don't use cable cards,


No Series 2 uses cable cards,
:rolleyes:
That's what he said.

WayneCarter
01-02-2009, 08:50 PM
thanks so much, that is helpful to know, the part i didnt understand is that i didnt realize that it didnt mean that cable companies were not necessarily going to an all digital format. i thought i read on this forum previously that my dual tuner would lose its ability to receive dual signal when all of this comes about soon. i get a pretty awesome picture on my hdtv even without paying hd fees to charter, so if i am staying dual and spoiled by tivo then i see no need to pay them more money for new tivo boxes and subs, or to charter for cable cards. thanks again for your replies.Most cable providers already transmit much of their content in digital format (channels that require use of a cable box are now usually transmitted in digital form).

Some cable providers still transmit "low tier" channels in analog form so it can be viewed by "legacy" equipment (non-digital TVs, VCRs, S1 and S2 TiVos, etc). But transmitting content in analog uses considerably more bandwidth than if the same content were to be transmitted in digital form - so there has been, and will doubtless continue to be, a reduction in the amount of content transmitted in analog form. The key point is that the "Feb changeover" will have no direct effect on cable subscribers - if your cable service currently provides channel "X" as analog, it is very likely that "X" will still be available as analog in March.

Your cable provider will undoubtedly continue to gradually shift content from analog to digital, so "X" will become available only as digital at some point, but the decision to transition content to digital will be made by individual cable providers based on their assessment of their local market conditions.

steve614
01-03-2009, 09:29 AM
Haven't I read somewhere that Cable Co's have a deadline sometime around 2012?
Or can they continue to broadcast analog indefinitely, if they so choose?

CurlingSteve
01-03-2009, 02:58 PM
If this is right...
http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/devlin/15959
... cable companies MUST support analog until 2012, beyond that it up to them.
But I'd bet that doesn't mean every channel.
My cable company has already moved several channels (but not the local stations so far) to digital/requires box or cablecard.

nlrushing
01-03-2009, 05:34 PM
so the answer to the orignal post and my confusion is that things won't change for us specifically in February 2009, but the transfer to all digital has begun and we need to decide whether to deal with it sooner or later if we want to retain the dual tuner functionality and have the ability to shop for the best deal when found... correct? even if some channels are still offered in analog the choices may dwindle to nothing i am interested in without much notice. please correct me if i am wrong, it may be best to prepare to make the upgrade anyway. i assume the cable company will send me a confusing letter with some jargon abount why my bill is going up again before they go all digital and maybe i will be ready for the switch by then. thanks...

pdhenry
01-03-2009, 06:12 PM
There's no guarantee that your cable company will ever abandon analog transmission.

scandia101
01-03-2009, 06:41 PM
If this is right...
http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/devlin/15959
... cable companies MUST support analog until 2012, beyond that it up to them.
But I'd bet that doesn't mean every channel.
My cable company has already moved several channels (but not the local stations so far) to digital/requires box or cablecard.

"cable companies MUST support analog until 2012" only means that their boxes have to have analog outputs that older TVs can use. Their entire lineups can go digital at any time.

WayneCarter
01-03-2009, 07:10 PM
so the answer to the orignal post and my confusion is that things won't change for us specifically in February 2009, but the transfer to all digital has begun and we need to decide whether to deal with it sooner or later if we want to retain the dual tuner functionality and have the ability to shop for the best deal when found... correct? even if some channels are still offered in analog the choices may dwindle to nothing i am interested in without much notice. please correct me if i am wrong, it may be best to prepare to make the upgrade anyway. i assume the cable company will send me a confusing letter with some jargon abount why my bill is going up again before they go all digital and maybe i will be ready for the switch by then. thanks...Correct

FWIW Our cable provider recently moved several channels to digital-only - they included a letter with the bill explaining the upcoming changes. So you might want to read the "filler" included with the bills.

steve614
01-03-2009, 08:33 PM
If this is right...
http://tech.yahoo.com/blog/devlin/15959
... cable companies MUST support analog until 2012, beyond that it up to them.
But I'd bet that doesn't mean every channel.
My cable company has already moved several channels (but not the local stations so far) to digital/requires box or cablecard.

"cable companies MUST support analog until 2012" only means that their boxes have to have analog outputs that older TVs can use. Their entire lineups can go digital at any time.

Ahh, that's what I was thinking of. Not a deadline, more like an expiration date. :)

gastrof
01-03-2009, 09:30 PM
:rolleyes:
That's what he said.


Actually, what he said was "This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos which don't use cable cards", which could be taken as meaning some Series 2s do, and this "would have implications" for the ones that don't.

It also left out of the picture entirely that Series 2s not using cable cards hardly leaves them out in the cold, since they never did use cable cards and will continue to be able to use cable boxes.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Stephen Tu
01-03-2009, 09:33 PM
You guys are confused and giving out misinformation on the "analog until 2012" thing.

The situation is this:
- If a cable company wants to go completely digital, no analogs, it can, at any date.
- If it maintains an analog tier, until 2012 it must provide "dual carriage must-carry" for local stations; it must give analog customers a way to receive all local stations. In practice that means they will continue to provide analog local channels. The rule is so that the cable company can't kick off local stations who are using the "must-carry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must_carry)" rule to force the cable company to retransmit their signals. The cable companies didn't want to be forced to carry both the digital & analog versions, but the FCC forces them to do so until 2012, after which they can drop the analog if they want. This is mainly an issue for small independent stations; large network affiliates have their own retransmission agreements that override must-carry rules, the cable companies want to carry them since their customers demand it.

The rule is to maintain access to local broadcast networks. It has practically nothing to do with "analog output for older TVs", cable boxes have that simply by market necessity as there are a zillion TVs out there that don't have HDMI inputs.

scandia101
01-04-2009, 01:34 AM
Actually, what he said was "This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos which don't use cable cards", which could be taken as meaning some Series 2s do, and this "would have implications" for the ones that don't.

You're absolutely right, some people could misinterpret it that way.

"This would have implications for Series 2 TiVos that don't use cable cards" would be the way to say that some don't use cablecards, which implies that some do.

That always introduces a restrictive clause.
Which can introduce a restrictive or a nonrestrictive clause, but is generally used only for nonrestrictive clauses.

javabird
01-09-2009, 11:11 PM
The cable companies can convert to digital at any time, as long as they ensure existing subscribers have the equipment to view it. So, in Seattle where Comcast is switching over to digital soon, they are giving out free DTA boxes to analog subscribers.

The FCC states: (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-276576A1.pdf)

By statute, cable operators must make local broadcasters’ primary video and program-related material viewable by all of their subscribers. The FCC’s ruling today allows cable operators to comply with the viewability requirement by choosing to either: (1) carry the digital signal in
analog format, or (2) carry the signal only in digital format, provided that all subscribers have the necessary equipment to view the broadcast content. The viewability requirements extend to February 2012 with the Commission committing to review them during the last year of this
period in light of the state of technology and the marketplace.