Babylon 5, "Endgame", S04E20, OAD 10/13/97 *spoilers*

[gchance]

Guide page: http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/guide/086.html

Wow. :)

Greg

[doom1701]

I can watch this episode over and over again, and still get a little something in my eye when the Apollo shot that last satellite out of the sky.

And yet, every time I watch it, I have to fast forward through the Marcus scenes.

[JMikeD]

And yet, every time I watch it, I have to fast forward through the Marcus scenes.

Same here.

[Hunter Green]

I don't quite have to fast-forward through them, but I can certainly see where you're coming from. It's a paradox. On the one hand, it seems wrong for Marcus to abandon the fight just over something like a girl -- contrary to what we've seen of him before. He can dress it up with talking about saving her nobility, that that's what we were fighting for, that he knew they'd win so he just wanted her to survive to see it; but it all comes down to that he was sweet on her. And I don't see the Marcus we've come to know abandoning duty for that. On the other hand, even though it didn't take anywhere near long enough to make it convincing, it took way too long.

Minor spoiler for cast changes to come in a few episodes:
My wife wonders if the actor behind Marcus was irked that his character sacrificed himself to save someone who ends up leaving the show anyway.

Also... how like JMS to set the "big finale of the war" two episodes before the end of the season, eh?

[Mr_Bester]

....

Minor spoiler for cast changes to come in a few episodes:
My wife wonders if the actor behind Marcus was irked that his character sacrificed himself to save someone who ends up leaving the show anyway.

...
I know JMS was pissed that Marcus was offed when Ivanova didn't come back. Both actors were at a convention here in town and they seemed to get along just fine. It was just after the Amazing Stories where Marcus and Ivanova get back together and they both thought it was out of character for everyone involved.

[busyba]

It was just after the Amazing Stories where Marcus and Ivanova get back together

The what now?

[BeanMeScot]

The what now?

Me :confused: ,too.

[Mr_Bester]

The what now?

JMS wrote 4 stories for the Amazing Stories magazine. That was the only one I didn't get(it was never available near me). And it looks like that was probably ok.

I think there was a G'Kar/Lyta story. I'll have to dig mine out and read the stories again.

edit
Here's a site with some more info...Spoilers may be in here, so be warned
http://abyss.hubbe.net/b5/books/stories.html

[Sirius Black]

Are those "Amazing Stories" considered official canon? Sure JMS wrote them but still, given who is alive and who is dead at the end of this episode, how could either of them be in a story together that takes place after this one? Unlike in other shows, death does seem to be fairly permanent on this show.

[Mr_Bester]

Are those "Amazing Stories" considered official canon? Sure JMS wrote them but still, given who is alive and who is dead at the end of this episode, how could either of them be in a story together that takes place after this one? Unlike in other shows, death does seem to be fairly permanent on this show.

I haven't read the story, but got the synopsis from Claudia Christian in her talk. But....Future Episode Spoiler

in Sleeping in Light, when showing the characters, Marcus shows up on a cryotube screen...edit...also, I think the story takes place after Marcus is "cured" 500yrs later and then he clones Ivanova from a piece of hair on his clothing and they live on some deserted planet or something...that's from memory, so it may not be exactly correct, but Claudia and Jason both thought it was crazy

So, I wouldn't call all of them canon. The lyta/G'Kar and Londo ones I think are considered as canon as the comic books. Which is more canon than some of the novels, but less than some others.(that doesn't help much, does it)

[gchance]

in Sleeping in Light, when showing the characters, Marcus shows up on a cryotube screen...edit...also, I think the story takes place after Marcus is "cured" 500yrs later and then he clones Ivanova from a piece of hair on his clothing and they live on some deserted planet or something...that's from memory, so it may not be exactly correct, but Claudia and Jason both thought it was crazy

I had heard about that one before as well, but I always thought it was a joke JMS had told.

Greg

[tgr131]

Loved Endgame! Ramming Speed! I love JMS' explanation of Ramming Speed:

You are in a space ship, in a vacuum, heading toward target X. You understand that it takes time to transfer energy and movement toward another plane, so you go at X-speed toward that object if you want the option of applying thrusters and angling away from the object before you slam into it.
If, on the other hand, you *want* to hit the object, and you have no interest in holding back your thrusters to allow you to diverge from the target in the amount of space remaining between you and it, you proceed at Y speed, with your thrusters putting out their maximum amount of fuel.

Y = ramming speed.

[tgr131]

May I say that I wish I had joined all of you in rewatching the series? I have enjoyed your discussion, and chimed in occasionally. But with 3 rugrats in soccer, I barely have time for NEW TV, much less the old stuff. But I'm with you in spirit!

[ronsch]

May I say that I wish I had joined all of you in rewatching the series? I have enjoyed your discussion, and chimed in occasionally. But with 3 rugrats in soccer, I barely have time for NEW TV, much less the old stuff. But I'm with you in spirit!

+1

[aintnosin]

I remember when JMS previewed this one at WorldCon (I think it must have been '97). He showed the White Star attack on Mars. My thought was "Holy s***!"

I haven't changed my opinion. Easily the best episode of S4.

[JYoung]

I love Endgame.
It's a slam bang roller coaster ride throughout the entire episode from Marcus taking the White Star to the Martian Surface to the Apollo shooting out the orbital platform.

Sheriden's certainly more goal oriented in using the telepaths for this.
I can see why Franklin was surprised and I'm a little surprised that Lyta went along with it.

I also love the old ISN anchor coming back.