Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles - 12/15/08 - Earthlings Welcome Here [Text View]

DouglasPHill

12-16-2008, 08:10 AM

Rob Helmerichs

12-16-2008, 08:25 AM

Actually liked learning where in the world Riley came from.
??? We already knew that...

loubob57

12-16-2008, 08:26 AM

How could Sarah be stupid enough to get shot like that? She's been in way too many similar situations to let somebody pull a gun on her.

heySkippy

12-16-2008, 08:28 AM

Definitely the lamest episode of the season. The only bright spot is the slim chance that Riley is dead and won't be back in February.

Jeeters

12-16-2008, 09:42 AM

??? We already that...All we 'knew' (more like 'presumed') was that she was from the future. We didn't know how she met Jesse and how she got to the present time (by herself? with Jesse?), nor any idea of what her life in the future was like (i.e., was she also in the resistance with jesse, etc.)

I enjoyed this episode.

Interesting that the "UFOs" shown are extremely similar to some supposedly actual UFO sightings (http://www.nowpublic.com/ufo_another_similar_detailed_ufo_caught_on_camera_whats_goin g_on).

http://ufostoday.com/images/capitolaufo.jpg

Rob Helmerichs

12-16-2008, 10:03 AM

All we 'knew' (more like 'presumed') was that she was from the future. We didn't know how she met Jesse and how she got to the present time (by herself? with Jesse?), nor any idea of what her life in the future was like (i.e., was she also in the resistance with jesse, etc.)
Right, but that's not what he said... "Actually liked learning where in the world Riley came from," which we already knew. This just elaborated.

Cainebj

12-16-2008, 12:45 PM

Sirius Black

12-16-2008, 12:53 PM

Just WHO exactly is Riley supposed to be keeping John Connor from?

My first guess would be Cameron but the only other (logical) alternative is Sarah. The motives of both Riley and what's her name are very murky at this point.

Not the best episode to end the half-way point of the season with.

ElJay

12-16-2008, 01:01 PM

I was just getting back into this show after catching up on a backlog of episodes, and now they had to air this turd... Wow. What a huge waste of time, other than the previously mentioned and very ambiguous "her" reference.

KungFuCow

12-16-2008, 01:39 PM

I noticed that Fox is moving the show to it's kiss of death night, Friday.. So long T:TSCC, its been nice knowing you.

Shakhari

12-16-2008, 01:41 PM

I noticed that Fox is moving the show to it's kiss of death night, Friday.. So long T:TSCC, its been nice knowing you.

Can I get a BURN IN HELL FOX? Amen.

jlb

12-16-2008, 01:47 PM

I noticed that Fox is moving the show to it's kiss of death night, Friday.. So long T:TSCC, its been nice knowing you.

Can I get a BURN IN HELL FOX? Amen.

Maybe.....just maybe.....the move, which pairs it with Dollhouse, may actually work well for both series.

Who knows.

Anyways, I just saw/heard Lena Headley speaking in her natural accent for the first time.....Makes her even hawter....

http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=tscc&ep=1225479015902

EvilMidniteBombr

12-16-2008, 02:12 PM

So what are the "UFO"s supposed to be? Prototypes of the Hunter/Killers?

The he/she was just creepy. He/she did not make a very convincing man at all. Were we to assume that he'd had a sex change when he started hiding?

I liked this episode a whole lot more than the one where Cameron was sneaking off to the library (or wherever it was) to read up on her history.

FlugPoP

12-16-2008, 05:00 PM

First time saying this but this episode sucked.

ElJay

12-16-2008, 05:09 PM

Interesting, in the 2-minute recap on the Fox site (http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=tscc&ep=1229384884022), they make it very clear who Riley is here to keep from John:
Cameron

Church AV Guy

12-16-2008, 05:32 PM

I admit
- I generally fast forward through the Riley subplot
(and a couple of others)
- BUT -
I did accidentally catch one bit of dialogue and I guess if I didn't fast forward I might know the answer...

SO -

The dialogue in question was Riley being told to keep "her" away from John...

Just WHO exactly is Riley supposed to be keeping John Connor from?
In a previous episode Jesse told Riley to keep John away from Cameron because his association with that machine could endanger everything. She didn't say "that machine." She used a different slang term, but there was no doubt who she was talking about.

MickeS

12-17-2008, 01:45 AM

Odd episode, had some good parts. Actually liked learning where in the world Riley came from. The end was bogus and confusing. Way too much information on man who acted like a woman; don't need political statements in the show.
Political statements? I didn't notice anything about politics.

I liked this episode, but it was one of the weaker ones. I actually didn't think Riley was from the future, I thought she was from present time and that somehow she was recruited by Jesse. I was shocked when they revealed her to be the girl in the beginning.

Mars Rocket

12-17-2008, 02:06 AM

In a previous episode Jesse told Riley to keep John away from Cameron because his association with that machine could endanger everything. She didn't say "that machine." She used a different slang term, but there was no doubt who she was talking about.

Yeah, and she said that John wouldn't listen to anybody else and that he would only talk to her (Cameron) in the future. I suspect that this is more evidence that the future that Jesse comes from is different from the one Derek comes from.

DouglasPHill

12-17-2008, 05:52 AM

Political statements? I didn't notice anything about politics.

Bad choice of words on my part. I felt the episode gave way too much time to man/woman and even said out loud to my wife, "ok, enough of this they need to move on" I felt the ep was trying to make some socially correct point about this.

Odds Bodkins

12-17-2008, 07:55 AM

jones07

12-17-2008, 09:12 AM

Weak season final.

Hope Fox shocks me and green lights a 3rd season. My gut tells me.........

Timbeau

12-17-2008, 09:17 AM

Interesting, in the 2-minute recap on the Fox site (http://www.fox.com/fod/play.php?sh=tscc&ep=1229384884022), they make it very clear who Riley is here to keep from John:

I wish I'd seen this site before watching the episode, I could have saved the other 40 minutes I wasted on the episode. Wow, was that a slow moving episode.

Rob Helmerichs

12-17-2008, 09:39 AM

Weak season final.
It's not the season finale. They're only halfway through the season.

MickeS

12-17-2008, 10:36 AM

Riley has pretty much killed this show for me. I liked her better when she was just a regular kid, trying to do regular things. Now, it's a different direction every week with no overall sense of moving forward.
I too liked it better when she was just an "outsider". Same with Ellison. A show like this needs the "everyman" to ground it in at least a somewhat plausible version of the reality we live in.

Rob Helmerichs

12-17-2008, 10:47 AM

I too liked it better when she was just an "outsider".
Yeah, but she was never just an outsider...there was always something about her that caused a lot of speculation as to who she really was and what she was really up to.

jones07

12-17-2008, 11:42 AM

It's not the season finale. They're only halfway through the season.

Happy to read I was mistaken.

Don't know how I got the idea this was the finale. :o

MickeS

12-17-2008, 11:48 AM

Happy to read I was mistaken.

Don't know how I got the idea this was the finale. :o

Because they called it the "fall finale" in the promos.

danieljanderson

12-18-2008, 07:03 AM

I think agent Ellison is going inadvertently, make John Henry think it it equal or better than humans. That will be the why of Skynet taking over.

Just a guess.

WinBear

12-18-2008, 08:43 AM

I think Ellison needs to make John Henry think about Man being god to the machines.

heySkippy

12-18-2008, 09:02 AM

Asimov's 3 Laws would be a good start.

busyba

12-18-2008, 01:12 PM

Asimov's 3 Laws would be a good start.

Agreed... too bad he wants to go with the Ten Commandments instead. :)

Hunter Green

12-18-2008, 01:13 PM

busyba

12-18-2008, 01:17 PM

Did anyone else get the sense that the Asian woman, in bringing Riley to the "present", had already been there before and knew her way around? As if she'd gone to the past, then returned, found Riley, and brought her back? Or is she just familiar with the time because of remembering it from her youth, where Riley is too young to, and that's why she was the one guiding Riley through it? (Because Kyle said no one goes back... but it would hardly be the first thing Kyle said that has changed.)

Well, something odd is certainly going on... I mean they come to our time with not even the clothes on their backs so they have to go and shoplift some sweatpants and sweatshirts (you'd think they would have taken the tags off at least :)), immediately after which they check into a luxury hotel?! WTF?

AlphaDelta

12-18-2008, 02:55 PM

The problem with "teaching" John Henry Asimov's 3 laws or the Ten Commandments is that they're essentially stored in RAM, subject to change, or removal. They need to be in ROM (i.e. built-in) so they must be followed.

Mars Rocket

12-18-2008, 04:03 PM

I think agent Ellison is going inadvertently, make John Henry think it it equal or better than humans. That will be the why of Skynet taking over.

He's certainly not going to help the situation by falling back on religion to define the ideals of ethics and morality. No doubt John Henry has been given access to human media and information; with Ellison being handed to him as an exemplar of the human race I wouldn't doubt he would assume he was better than us. He'd probably conclude in short order that humans were insane.

That being said, this brings up a question I've always had about the Terminator mythology: why do the machines want to wipe out humanity? What's in it for them if they succeed? Are they angry about deforestation? The terminators themselves are always kind of stupid*; it would be interesting to actually talk to Skynet and find out what its motivations were.

* My wife says the terminators are like teenage boys - they have only one thing on their mind (killing, but still...)

Rob Helmerichs

12-18-2008, 04:18 PM

He's certainly not going to help the situation by falling back on religion to define the ideals of ethics and morality.
Yeah, that sure worked out well for the Cylons! :D

zalusky

12-18-2008, 04:50 PM

Well, something odd is certainly going on... I mean they come to our time with not even the clothes on their backs so they have to go and shoplift some sweatpants and sweatshirts (you'd think they would have taken the tags off at least :)), immediately after which they check into a luxury hotel?! WTF?

On the other hand they come from the future with lots of news resources. They could simply lookup lottery numbers, horse races, stock prices,... and go place a bet to get enough basic cash to get around with.

Mars Rocket

12-18-2008, 05:05 PM

On the other hand they come from the future with lots of news resources. They could simply lookup lottery numbers, horse races, stock prices,... and go place a bet to get enough basic cash to get around with.

I just figured there was an established network of future people that have been here since the '80s storing money and providing help for others. It would only take one person to make a ton of money.

Church AV Guy

12-18-2008, 05:10 PM

That being said, this brings up a question I've always had about the Terminator mythology: why do the machines want to wipe out humanity? What's in it for them if they succeed? Are they angry about deforestation? The terminators themselves are always kind of stupid*; it would be interesting to actually talk to Skynet and find out what its motivations were.

* My wife says the terminators are like teenage boys - they have only one thing on their mind (killing, but still...)
If I remember correctly, in the first movie, Kyle said that very quickly after becoming intelligent, Skynet determined that the only real threat to its existenance was humanity. He also said that Skynet had been destroyed before John had sent him back, so it was correct. Humans turned it off.

Of course, he also said no one else was going back (in time from where he had come from). That statement was violated in the second terminator movie, and everything terminator-esque since. Maybe that was what he was told before he left and he had been lied to.

Mars Rocket

12-18-2008, 05:27 PM

If I remember correctly, in the first movie, Kyle said that very quickly after becoming intelligent, Skynet determined that the only real threat to its existenance was humanity. He also said that Skynet had been destroyed before John had sent him back, so it was correct. Humans turned it off.

So it just woke up paranoid? I don't remember the bit about it being destroyed. Who sent back the original Terminator if not Skynet? I think I have it on DVD somewhere - maybe it's time to bust it out and watch it again.

busyba

12-18-2008, 05:27 PM

Are we supposed to infer from the final moments that Sarah is being abducted by aliens? Will there be a televised probing? :)

busyba

12-18-2008, 05:29 PM

So it just woke up paranoid? I don't remember the bit about it being destroyed. Who sent back the original Terminator if not Skynet? I think I have it on DVD somewhere - maybe it's time to bust it out and watch it again.

IIRC, Skynet sent back Arnold because it was sensing imminent defeat in its own time. Then they defeated Skynet, realized what it had done and sent Kyle back to save Sarah.

Hunter Green

12-19-2008, 11:09 AM

Of course, he also said no one else was going back (in time from where he had come from). That statement was violated in the second terminator movie, and everything terminator-esque since.
And if Fox doesn't save us all by cancelling the show, by a few years from now, everyone in this decade will turn out to be from the future...

MickeS

12-19-2008, 01:11 PM

Basically, humans are not content to only destroy Skynet in ONE timeline, they have to do it in every possible timeline. :)

Church AV Guy

12-19-2008, 01:19 PM

IIRC, Skynet sent back Arnold because it was sensing imminent defeat in its own time. Then they defeated Skynet, realized what it had done and sent Kyle back to save Sarah.
That's the way I remember it. Their defence grid had been smashed and this was a last ditch effort to survive.

Are we supposed to infer from the final moments that Sarah is being abducted by aliens? Will there be a televised probing?
We have seen these "flying things" earlier on when they showed (get this) flashbacks from people when they were in the future. (What tense is that?) This was a proto-syknet device, not aliens.

classicX

12-19-2008, 01:20 PM

It would only take one person to make a ton of money.

Or one Trip-8 to become a fantastically rich real estate tycoon just to hide in a wall.

Anubys

12-19-2008, 10:25 PM

crap...my DVR rebooted 5 minutes into the show so I missed the whole Riley backstory...when the show came back, Riley was covered in mud and taking a shower...

sorry for being a pain, can someone tell me what I missed?

not sure how John Henry is supposed to "learn" something like Faith...

logic88

12-20-2008, 05:14 PM

I've always found the TWOP recaps to be pretty good.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/terminator_the_sarah_connor_ch/earthlings_welcome_here_1.php?page=1

MickeS

12-20-2008, 05:59 PM

Or you can watch it on hulu.com or fox.com.

I've always found the TWOP recaps to be pretty good.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/terminator_the_sarah_connor_ch/earthlings_welcome_here_1.php?page=1

I've always found them to be pretty desperate in their attempts to be funny for no real reason.

Anubys

12-20-2008, 07:29 PM

smak

12-20-2008, 11:47 PM

MickeS

12-21-2008, 12:08 AM

I noticed an asian looking woman in the Terminator:Salvation trailer that looked like the girl on this show. Probably not the same actress, but is the character supposed to be big in future Terminator lore?

-smak-

That's Moon Bloodgood in "Terminator Salvation", playing a different character.

Moon Bloodgood must like time travel characters. ;)

spciesla

12-21-2008, 02:23 AM

What's the significance of "John Henry"? Anything beyond being a "Steel Driving Man"?

Rob Helmerichs

12-21-2008, 07:17 AM

What's the significance of "John Henry"? Anything beyond being a "Steel Driving Man"?
Well, he was born a slave and became a hero who took on The Man and freed his people...

Which is a bit heavy-handed and clever-cute, but I guess the risk to Weaver that somebody in the show might recognize the significance and figure out what she's up to is outweighed by the probability that most people in the audience won't figure out the significance and ask why nobody on the show has figured out the significance! :D

(And let's face it, Ellison of all people should know who John Henry is, and given his experiences with machines who will take over the world in the future and Weaver's sometimes robotic behavior, should have figured it out long ago. The clue train has run him over and backed up for another pass several times...)

Bierboy

12-21-2008, 10:40 AM

I noticed that Fox is moving the show to it's kiss of death night, Friday.. So long T:TSCC, its been nice knowing you.

This has been well-publicized now for a couple months....you been in a cave? :D

Mars Rocket

12-21-2008, 11:30 AM

Well, he was born a slave and became a hero who took on The Man and freed his people...

He was trying to save his people's jobs, not free them. They were in danger of being replaced with a machine so he challenged it and won, but then died. I'm not clear on how the legend can be mapped to the TSCC storyline.

ovr8ted

12-21-2008, 11:37 AM

Just so I am clear on this ep:

1) SkyNet is really an alien race

2) Ellison knows exactly what is going and is playing dumb

3) The Asian chick can go back and forth future/present/past at will

;) Got it!

Ment

12-21-2008, 01:04 PM

He was trying to save his people's jobs, not free them. They were in danger of being replaced with a machine so he challenged it and won, but then died. I'm not clear on how the legend can be mapped to the TSCC storyline.

Ellison/Humans are John Henry. Even if they beat the machine they can't stop 'progress' Judgment Day. Weaver is telling us that we should make a machine with a 'soul'; one that doesn't have to be in opposition to the human race because that is a timeline we already know.

Thaed

12-21-2008, 04:40 PM

I didn't get the space stuff in this one either. I also thought the transgender aspect was developed to the point where it seemed like something personal from one of the writers. This episode felt very much like X-files.

EvilMidniteBombr

12-21-2008, 07:33 PM

alpacaboy

12-21-2008, 07:40 PM

What space stuff? What aliens?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/69/AvPvtT.jpg/250px-AvPvtT.jpg

?

classicX

12-22-2008, 08:02 AM

Jeeters

12-22-2008, 10:25 AM

What are you talking about?Glad it wasn't just me wondering. :confused: :)

wmcbrine

12-22-2008, 12:28 PM

Of course, he also said no one else was going back (in time from where he had come from). That statement was violated in the second terminator movie, and everything terminator-esque since. Maybe that was what he was told before he left and he had been lied to.I think it was the truth at the time he left, but the timeline has changed.

wmcbrine

12-22-2008, 12:55 PM

Interesting that the "UFOs" shown are extremely similar to some supposedly actual UFO sightings (http://www.nowpublic.com/ufo_another_similar_detailed_ufo_caught_on_camera_whats_goin g_on).It's not a coincidence. (http://screenrant.com/sarah-connor-chronicles-california-drones-mystery-brusimm-4647/)

MickeS

12-22-2008, 04:29 PM

It's not a coincidence. (http://screenrant.com/sarah-connor-chronicles-california-drones-mystery-brusimm-4647/)

I immediately knew that they referenced those images in the show, but I did not make the connection to the writer's strike. I bet that's what happened here, at least it makes a lot of sense.

Einselen

12-22-2008, 04:45 PM

So the idea is FOX doctored the pictures and put them on CL in order to promote the show/episode but then the writers strike happened so this episode was delayed until now?

aindik

12-31-2008, 11:40 AM

From that same blog post:
UPDATE 12/24/08: The prosecution would appear to have been wrong! I’ve been in communication with Josh Friedman, the Executive Producer and creator of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles and it would seem that the mysteries of the California Drones will continue to be a mystery for the time being. Josh wrote the following to me:
Bruce–
The drone/CARET materials are not viral marketing for our show. Fox knows nothing about them. I’ve been interested in the drone images for some time and, as I am wont to do, found a way to work areas of interest into the show. Our drone image at the end is a kissing cousin of the others but is of our own design. I don’t want anyone out there who chooses to believe in the drone sightings to feel in any way that their inclusion in TSCC invalidates their point of view. Likewise, any one who believes they are a hoax should not use their inclusion in the show as confirmation of that theory. Simply something in the zeitgeist that I was (and still am) fascinated by. Whether this settles the issue or only serves to incite others who want to use it for their own ends is beyond my control.
Josh Friedman
Executive Producer, Creator, TSCC

DevdogAZ

12-31-2008, 01:06 PM

I've always found the TWOP recaps to be pretty good.

http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/terminator_the_sarah_connor_ch/earthlings_welcome_here_1.php?page=1
I've always found that the recaps are so long that you could watch the episode faster than you could read them.
I didn't get the space stuff in this one either. I also thought the transgender aspect was developed to the point where it seemed like something personal from one of the writers. This episode felt very much like X-files.
I don't get the problem with the transgender issue. S/he was simply a guy trying to hide and avoid being killed. There was a logical reason for it within the story. There was nothing preachy, nor was there any evidence that s/he had a sex change or that s/he was happy to have made the change. It was simply a disguise.

I didn't notice anything about space or aliens either. :confused:

aindik

12-31-2008, 01:16 PM

I didn't notice anything about space or aliens either. :confused:

Other than the fact that much of the episode took place at a UFO convention?

aindik

12-31-2008, 01:20 PM

BTW, I just watched the entire series in the past week. Loving it, though I prefer the advancement of the larger plot to the "person on the list of the week" aspects. Sad to see it might not be back (heh) after the next 9 eps.

DevdogAZ

12-31-2008, 02:29 PM

Other than the fact that much of the episode took place at a UFO convention?
Yeah. I thought the fact that there was a UFO convention was very tangential. It just so happened that the information Sarah was looking for was being bantied about on the net among UFO believers, but didn't have anything to do with the UFOs themselves, as far as I could tell. Sarah was simply looking for the metal with the unique properties that the s/he had been blogging about.

aindik

12-31-2008, 02:39 PM

Yeah. I thought the fact that there was a UFO convention was very tangential. It just so happened that the information Sarah was looking for was being bantied about on the net among UFO believers, but didn't have anything to do with the UFOs themselves, as far as I could tell. Sarah was simply looking for the metal with the unique properties that the s/he had been blogging about.

That's the point. The alien stuff had nothing to do with what Sarah wanted, yet, the complaint was, we spent so much time hearing about it. To which, a reply "what alien stuff?" doesn't really make sense. There was plenty of (irrelevant) alien stuff (and irrelevant transgender stuff), which was what people are complaining about.

MickeS

12-31-2008, 02:53 PM

From that same blog post:

Thanks for posting that. I don't know if that makes me disappointed or relieved. :)

DevdogAZ

12-31-2008, 05:40 PM

That's the point. The alien stuff had nothing to do with what Sarah wanted, yet, the complaint was, we spent so much time hearing about it. To which, a reply "what alien stuff?" doesn't really make sense. There was plenty of (irrelevant) alien stuff (and irrelevant transgender stuff), which was what people are complaining about.
I guess I didn't think there was much of either. It was simply a way for the writers to stage the story, IMO. Did you get annoyed that there was so much "school" stuff when one of the episodes had John and Riley spending a significant amount of time at school? Did you get annoyed that there was so much "Mexican" stuff when one of the episodes took place almost entirely in Mexico? That's how I view the UFO convention in this episode.

Church AV Guy

12-31-2008, 05:54 PM

I am a little annoyed that there is so much John and Riley stuff when the show is "The Sarah Connor Chronicles."

busyba

01-01-2009, 01:23 PM

I didn't notice anything about space or aliens either. :confused:
Other than the fact that much of the episode took place at a UFO convention?

Of course in reality, UFO conventions don't actually have anything to do with space or aliens. They just think they do. ;)

busyba

01-01-2009, 01:25 PM

Did you get annoyed that there was so much "Mexican" stuff when one of the episodes took place almost entirely in Mexico?

I did. DEY TERK DER JERBS!!!!

MickeS

01-01-2009, 02:06 PM

Of course in reality, UFO conventions don't actually have anything to do with space or aliens. They just think they do. ;)

That's really how I took it. UFO = unidentified flying object, I don't think there was more to it than that. I don't remember any mention of alien or spacecraft. I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that the UFOs at the end were early Skynet Hunter Killer Vehicle prototypes.

EvilMidniteBombr

01-02-2009, 12:02 PM

I assumed (wrongly perhaps) that the UFOs at the end were early Skynet Hunter Killer Vehicle prototypes.
That's what I'm sayin' (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6923723#post6923723)!

So what are the "UFO"s supposed to be? Prototypes of the Hunter/Killers?I think we'll see (if they continue this story line) that the public thinks they are UFO's/spaceships from Mars but actually are prototypes of the HK's.