Heroes "Dual" - OAD 12/15/08 ***Spoilers***

[EvilMidniteBombr]

It appears that Arthur really is dead. But when Nathan woke up, I didn't see Arthur's body.

Sylar was better in this story. Back to being truly evil.

It's good to see that Peter has his ability back, but started over from scratch.

Oh, one more thing.

PRESIDENT WARF!!

[Shaunnick]

PRESIDENT WARF!!

LOL It's Worf. It was nice seeing Michael Dorn. I think it even funnier that they have another Star Trek tie in though.

[brott]

It appears that Arthur really is dead. But when Nathan woke up, I didn't see Arthur's body.

I don't believe we say the Marine's body either.

[Shakhari]

Peter was able to fly himself and Nathan to safety ... which means that Nathan was completely able to save himself without Peter taking the injection. Peter wimped out.

Hiro still has no powers, but Ando does ... that will be an interesting change to their dynamic.

I'd be surprised if Meredith is really dead. I mean, she controls fire without getting burned and we're supposed to believe she died in a fire?

And Mohinder is cured by being bathed in toxic chemicals. Isn't that the cliche of how so many superheroes get their powers in the first place?

[BriGuy20]

I'd be surprised if Meredith is really dead. I mean, she controls fire without getting burned and we're supposed to believe she died in a fire?

She may not have died DIRECTLY from the fire, but perhaps from the effects (lack of oxygen/place collapses on her). If she doesn't die, though, I could see her turning into a bad guy and going after HRG. You never can be sure someone is dead in Heroes.

Pretty meh episode for me. I'm honestly looking forward to Medium more than Heroes returning.

[jeepair]

Peter was able to fly himself and Nathan to safety ... which means that Nathan was completely able to save himself without Peter taking the injection. Peter wimped out.

And Mohinder is cured by being bathed in toxic chemicals. Isn't that the cliche of how so many superheroes get their powers in the first place?


I assumed Peter received all of his previous powers back and he just used flight to escape instead of something else.

As to Mohinder, I'm assuming the juice which spilled around him contained the drug and it entered his body via the cuts he had.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I have a hunch Nathan's not alone in there.

If he's in there at all any more...

[Sirius Black]

I have a hunch Nathan's not alone in there.

If he's in there at all any more...

Sounds like a Medium-Heroes crossover episode is forthcoming? The spirit of <unknown person X> is inhabiting the body of Sen. Petreli.

;)

[WinBear]

What was the deal with the shot of Usutu (the African seer) standing there looking alive and healthy along with all the other heroes at the end? Didn't Arthur rip his head off?

[Rob Helmerichs]

Sounds like a Medium-Heroes crossover episode is forthcoming? The spirit of <unknown person X> is inhabiting the body of Sen. Petreli.
Well, there's no reason Arthur couldn't have picked up the ability to project his consciousness into other bodies.

The real question in my mind is, is there anything of Nathan left? Has he been evicted, is he a passenger, or is he a co-conspirator?

[jlb]

Sulu, Worf, who's next........Maybe Kirk as some crazy lawyer.....

Good episode. I'm looking forward to Volume 4, though it looks like it might remind me a little too much of the Fugitive.

Feb 2.......ugh!!!!!!

[trausch]

Well, there's no reason Arthur couldn't have picked up the ability to project his consciousness into other bodies.

The real question in my mind is, is there anything of Nathan left? Has he been evicted, is he a passenger, or is he a co-conspirator?

I believe future Peter had this ability not present Peter. Arthur stole all the abilities from present Peter. So unless present Peter absorbed it from future Peter during one of their meetings, Arthur should not have the ability.

Many Star Trek Crossovers.....

Sylar = Young Spoke
Hiro's Dad = Sulu
US President = Worf

The producers of Heroes sure know who their fan base is. It would be nice if they brought in some additional eye Candy. How about 7 of 9 or T' Pol. I wonder how they have held up during the last few years.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I believe future Peter had this ability not present Peter. Arthur stole all the abilities from present Peter. So unless present Peter absorbed it from future Peter during one of their meetings, Arthur should not have the ability.
But Peter isn't Arthur's only source of abilities. And it's not entirely unprecedented for more than one person to have the same ability.

[nick1817]

I'm glad this is wrapped up, and think next seasons story arc might be a little bit simpler, and probably will be better

[Rob Helmerichs]

I'm glad this is wrapped up, and think next seasons story arc might be a little bit simpler, and probably will be better
Actually, there's still a whole story-arc left this season!

I'm not sure how much of it will be old-regime and how much new-regime, though, but we should at least start seeing the effects of the change.

[bobcarn]

I enjoyed this episode. It had a lot of action and some good moments. It stretched, and broke, some boundaries of believability, even considering that it's science fiction, but was still fun.

I still don't like the flip-flopping the characters do, like Nathan being a bad guy. And the thought that it might be Arthur or someone else in there doesn't help (the stories get convoluted enough). Also, the cliche where government goes around rounding up people in secret (where the plot is headed) has been overplayed a lot in media.

Nice touch though to have a black President.

[brott]

How about 7 of 9 or T' Pol. I wonder how they have held up during the last few years.

Jeri Ryan (7 of 9) has been on a number of different TV series as a star or in a recurring role since Star Trek: Voyager .. Not to mention the news surrounding her ex-husband :eek:

Jolene Blalock has not been as busy, but she's not as old, either.

[That Don Guy]

Looks like somebody wasn't paying attention in physics class when they were talking about relativity. There are three problems with "if you move really fast, you go back in time":

1. According to Einstein, the amount of energy required just to move at the speed of light is infinite. (That's why only light moves at the speed of light.)

2. When you move faster than light, you don't actually move backwards in time; you are able to see things in what was your past, and you might actually start reversing your aging. Otherwise, how could light itself have a velocity?

3. Even if you could go back in time by moving very fast, the instant you started moving backwards in time, you would reach a point in space-time where you were, say, 1 millimeter away from your present position. One of two things would happen; either your atoms would intersect, causing a considerable amount of energy to be released, or you would "bump into yourself" and stop moving.

Speaking of space and time, from where (and when) did Hiro get the formula right before returning to the present (and tearing it up) at the end?

-- Don

[astrohip]

I enjoyed most of this episode (for a change!), but felt very let-down at the end. I felt it built & built toward a finale, but then when it ended, it was... just over. No WOW feeling. Almost like it was missing a closing scene/finale. Not sure what I expected, but whatever I wanted, I didn't get it.

One thing for sure, waaaay too many story lines. They really need to simplify the plots.

Next story ("Fugitives") looks ok. I'll probably start watching again (I keep saying 'I'm outa here'), but my patience factor will be much lower.

[bobcarn]

Looks like somebody wasn't paying attention in physics class when they were talking about relativity. There are three problems with "if you move really fast, you go back in time":

1. According to Einstein, the amount of energy required just to move at the speed of light is infinite. (That's why only light moves at the speed of light.)

2. When you move faster than light, you don't actually move backwards in time; you are able to see things in what was your past, and you might actually start reversing your aging. Otherwise, how could light itself have a velocity?

3. Even if you could go back in time by moving very fast, the instant you started moving backwards in time, you would reach a point in space-time where you were, say, 1 millimeter away from your present position. One of two things would happen; either your atoms would intersect, causing a considerable amount of energy to be released, or you would "bump into yourself" and stop moving.

Speaking of space and time, from where (and when) did Hiro get the formula right before returning to the present (and tearing it up) at the end?

-- Don

The most glaring problem with Daphne moving back in time during last night's episode is that assuming that, by moving faster than light, she was able to go backwards in time, how did she move forward again? ;)

[Test]

I believe future Peter had this ability not present Peter. Arthur stole all the abilities from present Peter. So unless present Peter absorbed it from future Peter during one of their meetings, Arthur should not have the ability.

Many Star Trek Crossovers.....

Sylar = Young Spoke
Hiro's Dad = Sulu
US President = Worf

The producers of Heroes sure know who their fan base is. It would be nice if they brought in some additional eye Candy. How about 7 of 9 or T' Pol. I wonder how they have held up during the last few years.

Uhura was the grandmother of the kid that can talk to machines.

[dsmoot]

The most glaring problem with Daphne moving back in time during last night's episode is that assuming that, by moving faster than light, she was able to go backwards in time, how did she move forward again? ;)

Well duh, she just runs backwords;)

[Sirius Black]

The whole going back in time by going really, really fast around the Earth to change the future worked for Superman, it can work for Daphne too.

[jlb]

Looks like somebody wasn't paying attention in physics class when they were talking about relativity. There are three problems with "if you move really fast, you go back in time":

1. According to Einstein, the amount of energy required just to move at the speed of light is infinite. (That's why only light moves at the speed of light.)

2. When you move faster than light, you don't actually move backwards in time; you are able to see things in what was your past, and you might actually start reversing your aging. Otherwise, how could light itself have a velocity?

3. Even if you could go back in time by moving very fast, the instant you started moving backwards in time, you would reach a point in space-time where you were, say, 1 millimeter away from your present position. One of two things would happen; either your atoms would intersect, causing a considerable amount of energy to be released, or you would "bump into yourself" and stop moving.

Speaking of space and time, from where (and when) did Hiro get the formula right before returning to the present (and tearing it up) at the end?

-- Don

Heavy!

[rgr]

The most glaring problem with Daphne moving back in time during last night's episode is that assuming that, by moving faster than light, she was able to go backwards in time, how did she move forward again? ;)As we learned in Star Trek:TOS: moving really fast around the sun in one direction moves you back in time, the other direction moves you forward. So Daphne going to the building is back in time and from the building is forward in time. Really quite simple. Or it could be that her will had something to do with it, as they implied in the acquisition of powers discussion with Ando.

And as to keepin this in some sort of compliance with the physical laws of reality as we know them: buuwaahaahaaahaaahaa, wheeeheheeeheeee, whoohohohoooohhhooo.

[Sirius Black]

Heavy!

there's that word again - "heavy." Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull? ...

[Shakhari]

Nathan is apparently every bit as stupid as Peter is. He seems to have ratted out all the other supers, without mentioning that he's one of them ... does he really expect that nobody is going to remember that he was in the hospital with radiation burns after a nuclear event above New York, after which he made a miraculous recovery, only to get shot in front of cameras several months later, and once again make a miraculous recovery? He's always been a public figure, somebody is eventually going to notice.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

LOL It's Worf. It was nice seeing Michael Dorn. I think it even funnier that they have another Star Trek tie in though.Yeah, I did it to tweek the Trekkies.

I assumed Peter received all of his previous powers back and he just used flight to escape instead of something else.I assumed the opposite. He used flight because that was the only power he had mimicked after taking the drug. Otherwise why wouldn't he just teleport both of them out?

What was the deal with the shot of Usutu (the African seer) standing there looking alive and healthy along with all the other heroes at the end? Didn't Arthur rip his head off?I'm assuming he was Jedi.


Speaking of space and time, from where (and when) did Hiro get the formula right before returning to the present (and tearing it up) at the end?

-- DonDaphne took Pikachu to Pinehurst and they stole the formula from not-Niki.

Uhura was the grandmother of the kid that can talk to machines.We've seen George Takai, Malcolm McDowell, Nichelle Nichols, Dominic Keating and now Michael Dorn. Zachary Quinto is in the new movie coming out in '09. Those are the only actors that I can recall that have been in a Star Trek movie or TV show. There may have been others. There have been ST references all throughout the show. My favorite had to have been Sulu's license plate on his limo in season 2 (i think).

[Sirius Black]

Daphne took Pikachu to Pinehurst and they stole the formula from not-Niki.



ok, this made me chuckle... Who is Pikachu, in this case?

[EvilMidniteBombr]

ok, this made me chuckle... Who is Pikachu, in this case?Pikachu is what not-Niki called Hiro when he and Daphne showed up to take the formula.

[Craigbob]

Pikachu is what not-Niki called Hiro when he and Daphne showed up to take the formula.

I loved that line and Hiro's response to it.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

I loved that line and Hiro's response to it.
Me too! Probably one of the funniest lines on that show in a long time.

[loubob57]

We've seen George Takai, Malcolm McDowell, Nichelle Nichols, Dominic Keating and now Michael Dorn. Zachary Quinto is in the new movie coming out in '09. Those are the only actors that I can recall that have been in a Star Trek movie or TV show. There may have been others. There have been ST references all throughout the show. My favorite had to have been Sulu's license plate on his limo in season 2 (i think).

One other reference I liked was from Dr. Strangelove - The catalog number for the Kensei sword was CRM-114 which was the designation of the comm discriminator in the B-52. I just learned it was also referenced in A Clockwork Orange which is probably the more direct tie in with Malcom McDowell.

[unicorngoddess]

I thought this was a great conclusion to this volume. I'm hoping that they tied up all these wildcards and we won't be seeing some of these people in the next volume. Hopefully Sylar is gone for good this time. I enjoyed seeing the little game that he played but I think we've gone as far as we can go with Sylar. I thought it was stupid that HRG released the puppet master guy with Sylar on the loose. I would think that's the LAST power I would want Sylar to have!

I'm also confused how Daphne could travel both forwards AND backwards in time. When she did it the first time, she had to wait there to catch up to current time...so wouldn't she have aged 16 years by the time she caught back up with the present?

[Church AV Guy]

Well, Heroes has again had a big build-up culminating in an unsatisfactory conclusion. On a show where noone really dies, is Syler dead? Even Usutu, who I thought surely was dead seemed to be alive at the end of this episode. This show seems to be all setup with no payoff.

The only thing I can think of that REALLY happened was the burning down of both the Pinehearst and Primatech facilities.

If that really is Nathan, then he is a much bigger hypocrite than Peter.

The title was Duel. Who exactly was dueling? A duel is only between two parties, isn't it?

[Rob Helmerichs]

The title was Duel. Who exactly was dueling? A duel is only between two parties, isn't it?
The title was Dual.

[brott]

I thought this was a great conclusion to this volume. I'm hoping that they tied up all these wildcards and we won't be seeing some of these people in the next volume. Hopefully Sylar is gone for good this time. I enjoyed seeing the little game that he played but I think we've gone as far as we can go with Sylar.

I doubt Sylar is gone .. We can probably assume that the stake Claire put into Sylar's neck will be destroyed in the fire (along with Sylar's body) .. But, once that happens Sylar could reassemble ..

Now, the antithesis of that is that Adam Monroe being vaporized by Arthur, but given that this is Heroes, can be we be 100% certain that Adam is actually dead?

[Church AV Guy]

The title was Dual.
Well, that's what I get for not going back and making sure.

:ooops:o

[rgr]

I'm also confused how Daphne could travel both forwards AND backwards in time. When she did it the first time, she had to wait there to catch up to current time...so wouldn't she have aged 16 years by the time she caught back up with the present?That's why she took Ando with her.

[Sir_Q]

What was Ando doing when we had a glimpse of him using his power before.

[EvilMidniteBombr]

I thought it was fire but it could have been red lightning . It was definitely red.

[Craigbob]

What was Ando doing when we had a glimpse of him using his power before.

I'm thinking he was helping Hiro get his powers back. I'd have to DL the episode and watch that scene again to see if there were any words wxchanged between Ando and Hiro.

[JETarpon]

Or Hiro already had his powers back, and Ando was just giving him a power boost for some reason.

[BitbyBlit]

Looks like somebody wasn't paying attention in physics class when they were talking about relativity. There are three problems with "if you move really fast, you go back in time":

1. According to Einstein, the amount of energy required just to move at the speed of light is infinite. (That's why only light moves at the speed of light.)

2. When you move faster than light, you don't actually move backwards in time; you are able to see things in what was your past, and you might actually start reversing your aging. Otherwise, how could light itself have a velocity?

3. Even if you could go back in time by moving very fast, the instant you started moving backwards in time, you would reach a point in space-time where you were, say, 1 millimeter away from your present position. One of two things would happen; either your atoms would intersect, causing a considerable amount of energy to be released, or you would "bump into yourself" and stop moving.

Speaking of space and time, from where (and when) did Hiro get the formula right before returning to the present (and tearing it up) at the end?

-- Don

Technically it's the amount of energy required to accelerate an object with a mass that is infinite. That's why tachyons, which travel faster than light, haven't been ruled out yet. For them, an infinite amount of energy is needed to slow down to the speed of light. But yeah, Superman and Speedette still both violated that rule.

However, the other two aren't problems. If one could theoretically skip over the light barrier, then that would allow one to move backward in time. Time actually does slow down as one approaches the speed of light (relative to a given observer). It is not just a matter of "catching up to the light", and going faster than light is not simply "getting ahead of the light". So it is more than simply being able to see the light of the past. In fact, we can already see the light of the past today simply by looking at the stars.

Also, you wouldn't run into yourself because you would be moving forward in space. If an outside observer could see you, they would see two of you moving toward each other (one running forward, the other running backward), and merging into one. But there would be no collision because as you approached the speed of light, your length along the direction of travel would approach 0 (relative to the observer).

And that is even assuming an outside observer could observe the you going faster than light. Most likely being in such a state would put you "out of phase" with matter on the other side of the light barrier, so you would not be able to interact in any meaningful way.

[BitbyBlit]

The most glaring problem with Daphne moving back in time during last night's episode is that assuming that, by moving faster than light, she was able to go backwards in time, how did she move forward again? ;)

Actually, going forward is easy (relatively speaking). We know how to do this today, but are simply limited by energy and other factors such as the maximum possible acceleration under which humans could survive. Given that Daphne is not bound by these same restrictions, however, she simply needed to accelerate to just before the speed of light, and time would pass faster in the outside world than in her own.

[DrZoidberg42]

I'm also confused how Daphne could travel both forwards AND backwards in time. When she did it the first time, she had to wait there to catch up to current time...so wouldn't she have aged 16 years by the time she caught back up with the present?

We do not know she HAD to wait to catch up. She may have just been WTF and was just watching, and then was noticed. Also Ando seems to super charge or enhance abilities. The next level of superspeed may be to go forward and back in time. I mean the next level of Matt's power is the ability to make people see things and lock someone in their own head-pretty different from reading minds.

[allan]

I assumed Peter received all of his previous powers back and he just used flight to escape instead of something else.

It's not really clear whether Peter has all his old powers or not. Until I see otherwise, I'll ASSume that he's a blank slate, except for flying. Though, I'm sure he'll gain more powers again.

[IndyJones1023]

I am so sick of Sylar being bad, then good, then bad again. Same for Nathan. Bad, good, bad. Daphne, bad then good. Mohinder. Good then bad, now what? What the hell is going on? This show is sucking wind badly.

[TiVoJedi]

Did anyone else notice Meredith called Sylar Skyler? Talk about not memorizing the script or knowing who the characters are on the show...

[kjnorman]

The most glaring problem with Daphne moving back in time during last night's episode is that assuming that, by moving faster than light, she was able to go backwards in time, how did she move forward again? ;)

She just runs very very slowly!

[catcard]

The title was Dual.

When I remembered that that was the title, it made me think (as someone else in this thread mentioned) that Arthur had moved into Nathan's body - so therefore they were a dual entity? He just did not seem like the old Nathan - very dark all of a sudden.

[busyba]

Actually, going forward is easy (relatively speaking). We know how to do this today, but are simply limited by energy and other factors such as the maximum possible acceleration under which humans could survive. Given that Daphne is not bound by these same restrictions, however,

You know, it just occured to me that it would have been really funny if Daphne got the power to move really fast, but didn't have the physical capability to withstand the acceleration. She'd just turn to mush the first time out.

Of course, the writers would have had to have named her Icarus instead. :D

[scandia101]

The title was Dual.

The title was (is) Duality ;)

[catcard]

The title was (is) Duality ;)

No the program guide data said "Duality" but the screen title at the beginning of the episode said "Dual"

[allan]

No the program guide data said "Duality" but the screen title at the beginning of the episode said "Dual"

This is two confusing. :D

[scandia101]

No the program guide data said "Duality" but the screen title at the beginning of the episode said "Dual"

I stand corrected.

[JohnB1000]

I've pretty much enjoyed Heroes this year and was looking forward to this last episode but ended up pretty disappointed. I thought it was very flat and the resolution was simply uninteresting. I had high expectations after the last couple of weeks but I'm not even convinced I'll bother next time around now.

[mrpantstm]

A weak ending to a weak season. And the next season doesn't look to promising either.

[wprager]

Putting the physics of Superman and Voyage Home aside, how did Ando and Hiro move with Daphne? She may be very fast but can she carry a grown man while traveling FTL?

As for African Isaac, I thought that destroying the formula was like hitting the reset button.

[Rob Helmerichs]

A weak ending to a weak season. And the next season doesn't look to promising either.
The season's only half over...

[morac]

The season's only half over...

Only if the SAG doesn't go on strike. ;)

[Rob Helmerichs]

Only if the SAG doesn't go on strike. ;)
http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2008_12_16.html#016362

If true, good news for us; bad news for them.

[IndyJones1023]

The season's only half over...

Yeah, but even their advertising said "next season on Heroes."

[MasterCephus]

Yeah, but even their advertising said "next season on Heroes."

They were calling the half season's "Volumes", but who knows what language they are using now.

I thought this season was the weakest of the 3, but still Heroes is better (IMO) TV than most television these days. I think it will be an interesting concept next season. It'll be a cool dynamic change for Hiro/Ando and we'll see who actually becomes the sidekick in that pair.

I am not sure that Nathan is taken over by anyone...if you remember before Nathan left the jungle, he seemed to have become a believer in Arthur's plan. It seems his line of thought now is that if everyone can't have special powers, then no one needs to have special powers.

I think it will be cool to see how they make the next Volume, who ends up being on the good side and is on the bad side.

Quick thought...wasn't a future that Peter saw have the government rounding up people with special powers? I see a future episode in the future :)

[hapdrastic]

So I guess this takes care of almost all of the "too powerful" characters on the show - at least if they actually permanently killed/depowered the people they said they killed/depowered.

Sylar's dead - glass spike through the head + fire should be enough to kill him...who knows.
Arthur's dead - Haitian + bullet to the head, same as Sylar
Hiro's depowered - no time travel
Most of the "Level 5" baddies were killed off as well, combo of Sylar + being dumb

We also, potentially, have a reset on Peter, which means he loses some of his "too powerful" powers, like time travel.

So there's only one power "absorber" left (Peter), and only one time-traveler (Daphne+Ando - hopefully they won't fall back on that too often). That should mean they get back on track with non-time-travel stories and are left with less gaping plot holes ("why didn't Peter just use power X").

Time will tell.

[BitbyBlit]

You know, it just occured to me that it would have been really funny if Daphne got the power to move really fast, but didn't have the physical capability to withstand the acceleration. She'd just turn to mush the first time out.

That's why you need to be very careful when asking a genie (or other wish-granting being) to give you powers. :D

[busyba]

That's why you need to be very careful when asking a genie (or other wish-granting being) to give you powers. :D

I read a great short story online many years ago about an engineer who found a genie and managed to avoid all the traditional "wish pitfalls" through a very careful application of wishes.

The first wish, of course, was for an infinite amount of wishes.

The next few wishes instituted a very rigorous checks-and-balances system by which the genie would be forced to give full disclosure on the potential negative consequences of a given wish and verify a confirmation of the wish before granting it.

It was a pretty cool story... I wonder if I would be able to find it again.

[NJChris]

I didn't have a problem with Daphne moving through time.

I *did* have a problem with HRG releasing the captive guys on level 5. Then they say "why shouldn't we kill you?" and he says because Sylar is in the building and trapped everyone. The puppet guy backs off, then HRG tells them to go kill Sylar.

So they are afraid to kill HRG because Sylar is in the house. But they are okay with going after Sylar (individually) to kill him. HUH?????? Why did they not kill HRG???

[KungFuCow]

I doubt Sylar is gone .. We can probably assume that the stake Claire put into Sylar's neck will be destroyed in the fire (along with Sylar's body) .. But, once that happens Sylar could reassemble ..

Now, the antithesis of that is that Adam Monroe being vaporized by Arthur, but given that this is Heroes, can be we be 100% certain that Adam is actually dead?

It looked like glass she stuck in his head. Its gonna have to get pretty hot to melt that.

[Church AV Guy]

It looked like glass she stuck in his head. Its gonna have to get pretty hot to melt that.
I was thinking the same thing. Sylar would likely be burned to ash before the glass melted (except maybe his bones). I really doubt he could come back from that.

Ma Patrelli's dream had the scene from the hallway. In the dream, Claire was beheaded and everything was in chaos. I guess that was changed. The dream and the way it played out were very similar though.

They have been rather inconsistent with the way they portray temporal causality. We see in this episode that Hiro was the one who tore the sheet with the formula on it in half, so when he opened the safe years later, only one half of the formula was there, torn the exact way he had left it. That was good, but in other instances, not so good. When someone goes back in time and alters all of the circumstances that were his history, thus nullifying it, where does he have to go back to? Wouldn't he be adrift in time?

Last year, Peter left a girlfriend in a future, and then destroyed the virus so that future never happened. So... what happened to her?

I'll never know, because they'll never tell us.

[mrpantstm]

The season's only half over...

A weak ending to a weak chapter than? ;)

[scandia101]

A weak ending to a weak chapter than? ;)

Than what?:p
Although, it is nice to see that somebody knows the word 'than' even exists.;)

[classicX]

So now we have:

Ando + Hiro (if he gets his powers back): Stop time allover the city at once.
Ando + Peter: Absorb all abilities in the city at once.
Ando + Sprague-like power: The world blows up, like in the paintings?

Ando's power is pretty useless by itself, unless he can use it to either a) give normal people abilities, or b) use it purely as a weapon against people with or without abilities alike.

Secondly - I'm surprised no one has mentioned the X-Men theme.

[busyba]

I read a great short story online many years ago about an engineer who found a genie and managed to avoid all the traditional "wish pitfalls" through a very careful application of wishes.

The first wish, of course, was for an infinite amount of wishes.

The next few wishes instituted a very rigorous checks-and-balances system by which the genie would be forced to give full disclosure on the potential negative consequences of a given wish and verify a confirmation of the wish before granting it.

It was a pretty cool story... I wonder if I would be able to find it again.

Okay, I found it. I hadn't read it online, I had read it in an actual book (apparently, I used to do that once upon a time :)). It was in "Penn & Teller's How to Play in Traffic". Here's an online excerpt of that story:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1572972939/ref=sib_sip_pdp_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=genie%20nodded&p=S06B&checkSum=MWhl7dIXgL%2FepGKnn8mJ6aVYfpKiE0cqMK0Sng5Emz4%3D#

[Rob Helmerichs]

Secondly - I'm surprised no one has mentioned the X-Men theme.
Well, after the first couple hundred times it was mentioned during the early episodes of Season 1, people probably just got tired of it... ;)

[Sirius Black]

Well, after the first couple hundred times it was mentioned during the early episodes of Season 1, people probably just got tired of it... ;)

Theme as in music or theme as in story content?

[Rob Helmerichs]

Theme as in music or theme as in story content?
I was assuming story content, since I'm not aware of any X-Men musical theme...

[Sirius Black]

I was assuming story content, since I'm not aware of any X-Men musical theme...

In that case I'd have to re-watch the episode. Other than the fact that this is a show about mutants and X-Men is a comic about mutants, I didn't see anything else they have in common in this episode. Was it something from one of the x-men movies?

[Rob Helmerichs]

In that case I'd have to re-watch the episode. Other than the fact that this is a show about mutants and X-Men is a comic about mutants, I didn't see anything else they have in common in this episode. Was it something from one of the x-men movies?
Virtually every storyline the show has ever had has been a major X-Men storyline at one time or another. And most of the big themes of the show have been X-Men big themes.

That was probably due in the show's early days to the fact that once you have the same basic scenario, certain stories become obvious (the show's creators were absurdly proud of the fact that they knew little or nothing about comics, so they were probably just reinventing the wheel). But the main writers the last couple of seasons have been comic book people for the most part, so one has to assume that they just see the X-Men as an obvious source for easy ideas...

[TAsunder]

Was there a lot of time travel in X-men? I know in comics in general it happens quite a bit, but I don't remember it in X-men. Then again, I was very spotty in my readership. Or are you just talking about the "bad guy plot" stuff like giving people powers and what not?

[WinBear]

Was there a lot of time travel in X-men? I know in comics in general it happens quite a bit, but I don't remember it in X-men. Then again, I was very spotty in my readership. Or are you just talking about the "bad guy plot" stuff like giving people powers and what not?

Of course, the X-Men has had multiple temporal incursions. The earliest I recall was when "adult Kitty Pryde" went back to right after she joined the X-Men to warn them about the Sentinels. Now, there are multiple characters from multiple conflicting futures. Scott and Jean had a son in this timeline, and a daughter in this one type deals.

[cheesesteak]

Just about every character in this show is an idiot.

[hanumang]

(the show's creators were absurdly proud of the fact that they knew little or nothing about comics, so they were probably just reinventing the wheel).

Wow, I didn't know this. I assumed that Tim Kring (or did you mean someone else?) was a comic, er, graphic novel fan.

After all, there are so many in-jokes (character/place names, primarily) relating to Marveldom. Or has Marvel always paid to get those name drops? I know they sponsor the show now, but don't recall how things worked in Season 1

[Rob Helmerichs]

After all, there are so many in-jokes (character/place names, primarily) relating to Marveldom. Or has Marvel always paid to get those name drops? I know they sponsor the show now, but don't recall how things worked in Season 1
That's a more recent development. Jeph Loeb, one of Marvel's top writers, has been the head writer on Heroes for the past year or so (until he was recently fired). You'll find that the Marvel comics prominently featured on Heroes were ones written by Jeph Loeb.

But Kring knew nothing about comics, and seemed a bit stung by the notion that he should, and by accusations that his stories were just old X-Men stories done not so well. That may be why he brought Loeb (and some other guys with better geek cred) on board.

Ironically, it didn't really help the show. In the sense that it seems to have badly hurt the show. The geeks don't seem to have caught on either with the geeks or with the general public, which is why they're now gone, and non-comic-book-guy Bryan Fuller (a key part of the show's early success, until he left to push some daisies) is reportedly coming back.

[Hunter Green]

Sylar was better in this story. Back to being truly evil.
Yes to Sylar being evil. But I found his whole lockdown thread to be rambling and boring, an unwelcome interruption in the other things going on. Do I dare hope that Merideth exploding the building around his glass-in-the-neck-impaired body could really let us be rid of him?

Peter was able to fly himself and Nathan to safety ... which means that Nathan was completely able to save himself without Peter taking the injection. Peter wimped out.
They could at least have had Nathan thumped in the head and dazed or something if they wanted to explain Peter getting a flying power out of desperation. It felt weak.

What was the deal with the shot of Usutu (the African seer) standing there looking alive and healthy along with all the other heroes at the end? Didn't Arthur rip his head off?
I hope it was just a vision.

As for African Isaac, I thought that destroying the formula was like hitting the reset button.
Maybe if it had been destroyed in the past, but Hiro blew both chances at that. It was destroyed only in the present.

Now, the antithesis of that is that Adam Monroe being vaporized by Arthur, but given that this is Heroes, can be we be 100% certain that Adam is actually dead?
When that happened, Adam's power wasn't active, wasn't even just in remission, it was gone.

[Rob Helmerichs]

When that happened, Adam's power wasn't active, wasn't even just in remission, it was gone.
That is a highly logical suggestion.

You see the problem, of course. ;)

[Hunter Green]

What was I thinking?

[Rob Helmerichs]

What was I thinking?
You kids today, with your rock and roll and your obsession with logic!




Oh, what a world that would be!

[classicX]

When Sylar locked down the building, I kept thinking that it was like Saw.

But I've never seen the film, so I don't know how similar it was.

Why did the building immediately open up when Claire "killed" Sylar? Are we to believe that he was holding the lights off and doors closed by sheer force of will? Even for someone that powerful, it's a stretch.

[morac]

Why did the building immediately open up when Claire "killed" Sylar? Are we to believe that he was holding the lights off and doors closed by sheer force of will? Even for someone that powerful, it's a stretch.

Now that you mention it that is kind of silly, but he wouldn't have to hold all the windows closed, he'd just have to keep the facility thinking it was in lock down and then let the facility do the rest.

[Hunter Green]

Or that he was secretly holding some kind of dead-man switch that he'd wired into the building. Which actually wouldn't be too ridiculous since we know Sylar has a knack for figuring things out, so I could buy that he could make such a thing... at least within the plausability of this show. If we'd seen such a thing I'd've felt better about it.

Except of course Sylar wouldn't want it to be beneficial for people to kill him.

Damn, there's that logic stuff again.

[Thaed]

Sure, they've done X-men a bit, but the whole persecute-the-mutants thing was absolutely driven into the ground by X-men. It's one of the reasons I stopped reading comics 20 years ago. Unless they come at that angle from a perspective I'm not imagining, we're going to get a run-from-the-government show every week. That will be too much for me and I'll cancel my season pass.

[allan]

Sure, they've done X-men a bit, but the whole persecute-the-mutants thing was absolutely driven into the ground by X-men. It's one of the reasons I stopped reading comics 20 years ago. Unless they come at that angle from a perspective I'm not imagining, we're going to get a run-from-the-government show every week. That will be too much for me and I'll cancel my season pass.

Prior to the end of S3, I didn't really think about the X-Men that much. Yes, most of the Heroes were mutants, and both series had some time-travel (but so have a lot of other shows/comics). But with the government persecution angle, I not only think "X-Men"; I think "X-Men rip-off".

[morac]

Prior to the end of S3, I didn't really think about the X-Men that much. Yes, most of the Heroes were mutants, and both series had some time-travel (but so have a lot of other shows/comics). But with the government persecution angle, I not only think "X-Men"; I think "X-Men rip-off".

If the government starts sending out giant robots to capture the heroes, then I'll think it's an X-Men rip off. :D

[sean67854]

I read a great short story online many years ago about an engineer who found a genie and managed to avoid all the traditional "wish pitfalls" through a very careful application of wishes.

The first wish, of course, was for an infinite amount of wishes.

The next few wishes instituted a very rigorous checks-and-balances system by which the genie would be forced to give full disclosure on the potential negative consequences of a given wish and verify a confirmation of the wish before granting it.

It was a pretty cool story... I wonder if I would be able to find it again.

I don't have a definitive answer for you but that sounds a lot like a Robert Asprin story, maybe part of the M.Y.T.H. series?

[busyba]

I don't have a definitive answer for you but that sounds a lot like a Robert Asprin story, maybe part of the M.Y.T.H. series?

Actually, I followed myself up with another post further down where I say I found it:

Okay, I found it. I hadn't read it online, I had read it in an actual book (apparently, I used to do that once upon a time :)). It was in "Penn & Teller's How to Play in Traffic". Here's an online excerpt of that story:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1572972939/ref=sib_sip_pdp_pg?ie=UTF8&keywords=genie%20nodded&p=S06B&checkSum=MWhl7dIXgL%2FepGKnn8mJ6aVYfpKiE0cqMK0Sng5Emz4%3D#