Tivo 1 wont make its daily call anymore

[tubular031]

My tivo 1 has a turbo net card in it and has been calling over the net for years now. I can telnet to it and run tivo web on it. When I tell it to make a call it fails and says service not available.

I have rebooted it a couple times and still no go.

this is an OLD skool hdr212 with life time service on it that I bought when tivo first hit the world. i put an 80 gig drive in it with the turbo net maybe 5 or 6 years ago now?

I know the NIC is working and its talking to the net since telnet works and I can ping the internet and hosts inside my firewall. Tivo web is also working.

[KeithB]

You're not alone. :( More and more Series 1 users with TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard are reporting this failure. I've PM'ed TivoPony asking him to review the Series 1 failure messages here. I hope it's something they know about at Tivo and are working to fix. :confused:

[tubular031]

Yea mee too. my tivo ran out of data lastnight. :(

This is tivos way of saying screw you all, give us some money and get a new tivo!

[KeithB]

No, it's not. Believe me.

[dlee0708]

No, it's not. Believe me.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but curious as to what you know that enables you to say that.

[lew]

You're not alone. :( More and more Series 1 users with TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard are reporting this failure. I've PM'ed TivoPony asking him to review the Series 1 failure messages here. I hope it's something they know about at Tivo and are working to fix. :confused:


TivoNet/TurboNet/CacheCard and broadband "phone calls" were never offcially supported by tivo. I wouldn't expect tivo would devote resources solving problems with unsupported hardware/"hacks", particularly for a discontinued model. If the fix is something simple they might do something otherwise go back to a dialup/modem phone call or replace your unit.

Tivo seems to be trying to fix suggestions so they are at least trying to make sure S1 provide promised features.

[tubular031]

otherwise go back to a dialup/modem phone call or replace your unit.


what if your modem does not work or you don't have a phone line? (both true in my case)

If tivo did something like this and does not fix it, i will lose major respect for them. I have pimped tivos for a long time and if they will not stand behind the S1 and fix it for us lifetimers, ill gladly toss my tivo and get a dvr from dish. And my attitude toward tivo will change from support them to let them choke on it..... Please tivo, don't further dig that hole!!! many people are jumping ship on tivos because DVRs are available from all providers now.

[lew]

It's not clear what tivo "did". It's clear that tivo never promised broadband support for S1 units. I would lose all respect for a business that devotes significant resources to "fixing" a problem related to a "hacked" feature for a discontinued unit.

I'd hope if there is an easy fix tivo will fix it.

Go through your manual. Tivo was clear your unit needed a phone line. If your unit is broken (modem) you have to decide if it makes sense to fix it. Lifetime service refers to the lifetime of the box. You were able to "extend" the lifetime of your broken box by using an unsupported/undocumented feature.




what if your modem does not work or you don't have a phone line? (both true in my case)

If tivo did something like this and does not fix it, i will lose major respect for them. I have pimped tivos for a long time and if they will not stand behind the S1 and fix it for us lifetimers, ill gladly toss my tivo and get a dvr from dish. And my attitude toward tivo will change from support them to let them choke on it..... Please tivo, don't further dig that hole!!! many people are jumping ship on tivos because DVRs are available from all providers now.

[KeithB]

I'm not disagreeing with you, but curious as to what you know that enables you to say that.
Because I jokingly suggested this to a Tivo Support agent during a telephone conversation last week, and they seemed genuinely hurt. They care.

I'll also strongly agree and restate something Lew already mentioned:
Series 1 w/networking has never been officially supported by Tivo, Inc. From the very beginning, TivoNet and TurboNet have always been "unofficially" supported, only in the sense they could be used successfully. But Tivo have never officially provided approval or support for it. Period.

[WBragg]

Just would like to point out that whatever broke the S1's ability to download is affecting both modem users and broadband/TurboNet users. So I'm not sure there's a need to argue that broadband connections are unsupported. Surely, the people that still have phone lines and working modems deserve to still get their downloads.

[tubular031]

Someone over at tivo flipped some switch and poof, death to all s1 via the network. They already have to crunch the data for the phone calls (for the RAS network) from s1 devices. Why stop the flow of data to the incomming tcp/ip connections? I would be willing to bet this is Tivos way of making the s1 boxes all but go away. You show me a handful of oldskool $10 modems that last for 8 years with daily usage. There are not many out there. Tivo knows what they are doing. Ill bet me and many others are going to get pissed and jump ship if they dont fix it soon.

The data is there already and all they need to do it turn the delivery back on.

I would like to see some stats of how many s1 s2 and s3 boxes are out there and how they phone home. I would bet you that there are lots of s1 boxes using tcp/ip and tivos plan is to get those users to buy a new one. Till TIVO tells me different that is my story and I am sticking to it.
</rant>

[tubular031]

Just would like to point out that whatever broke the S1's ability to download is affecting both modem users and broadband/TurboNet users. So I'm not sure there's a need to argue that broadband connections are unsupported. Surely, the people that still have phone lines and working modems deserve to still get their downloads.

WORD!! again, tivos way of forcing you to upgrade. just like M$ does when they EOL an OS. At least M$ will let you still run their OS just not support it and release patches for it. my tivo is about useless without the guide.

[Da Goon]

let me ask a sincere question.

how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr? tivo has already lost money on the deal, and the box is just using up their resources. I find it comical how much people feel they are entitled to these days.

[WBragg]

how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr?
Are there no monthly or yearly subbed S1's out there? Is this targeted at Lifetime S1's?

[Da Goon]

Are there no monthly or yearly subbed S1's out there? Is this targeted at Lifetime S1's?

I wasn't implying that anyone was "targeted". I was simply stating how ridiculous (and comical to me) it was whenever someone with a lifetimed S1 starts making "threats" about getting another dvr.

[KeithB]

As if you can't tell by now, my feelings on this are:
1) Something's broken and not working
2) The problem isn't with networking hardware in my TiVo.
3) I honestly don't believe it's anything intentional on Tivo's part.
4) I think it's something:
...a) on their servers
...b) in the network software within Tivo 3.0

That being said, I paid for a lifetime subscription with my Series 1 box, and my Series 1 box is still alive: same Tivo service ID, same motherboard, even the same power supply. So I expect my lifetime subscription :rolleyes: service to still work.

[tubular031]

let me ask a sincere question.

how much do you really think tivo is going to care if someone stops using a lifetimed S1 and switches to another dvr? tivo has already lost money on the deal, and the box is just using up their resources. I find it comical how much people feel they are entitled to these days.

well in my tivo family i have 4 s2 and 2 s1. only 2 of them are lifetime. the others i pay for monthly. so if I walk and take my 4 x13 a month they are losing. Plus if this is for real I will not buy another product from them nor will I tell people to buy them. maybe others are different but there are many out there like me.

As if you can't tell by now, my feelings on this are:
1) Something's broken and not working
2) The problem isn't with networking hardware in my TiVo.
3) I honestly don't believe it's anything intentional on Tivo's part.
4) I think it's something:
...a) on their servers
...b) in the network software within Tivo 3.0

That being said, I paid for a lifetime subscription with my Series 1 box, and my Series 1 box is still alive: same Tivo service ID, same motherboard, even the same power supply. So I expect my lifetime subscription :rolleyes: service to still work.


WORD!!!! I paid for the life of the box and since the box is not dead, they should hold up to their end and give me the life time of the box! O wait that is easy, turn the updates on and then release a os patch to take the system out in xx amount of days... there no more tivo 1s and they can use the argument, its the life of the box and your box is dead...

[chet8888]

Would you guys assume that whatever TIVO did is why my SA-TIVO (with lifetime subscription) is no longer getting Guide data over a serial connection through my computer?

I see it transferring packets and receiving them when I hit "daily call"-- but it eventually says Service Unavailable after about 5 minutes or so.

Using the serial connection has worked flawlessly for years, now it doesn't (with no changes to the computer or TIVO dialing instructions).

Thanks for the help.

[QBiN]

This is affecting both TurboNet and Dial-Up/Modem S1 users. So the argument really has nothing to do with unsupported network features.

TiVo or someone they partner with to provide infrastructure services made a change that is now affecting a large amount of S1 users.

It's clear the change took effect sometime on 12/2 at the earliest. Someone over there knows what happened. They need to rollback whatever change they made.

[KeithB]

It's another day later, and although I understand we're not supposed to bump threads here, this is more than just a bump.

I'd really like to hear something from someone who understands why this service data download failure is occurring. If they're from TiVo, Inc, that would be fantastic. If they're not, I'd still appreciate understanding why my Series 1 no longer downloads service data. :( It certainly appears to be an issue on TiVo's end of the communication that is failing, but not having any visibility to their server-side scripts/programs, I can't even begin to guess :confused: what the issue might really be.

I'm on record here as having used the Wireshark program to observe the exchange between my TiVo and the TiVo servers. It looks like it's failing after my TiVo submits the ZIP archive of service log files to their servers. This is where the communication drops. Eventually, my TiVo times out waiting for a response from the TiVo, Inc. servers, and displays the now-infamous Service Unavailable error message.

I'll further go on record as being entirely willing to work with any Linux or UNIX geeks (term used with all due respect!) at TiVo, Inc. to help document and hopefully resolve this download issue. Seriously.

[dlee0708]

.
.
.
I'm on record here as having used the Wireshark program to observe the exchange between my TiVo and the TiVo servers. It looks like it's failing after my TiVo submits the ZIP archive of service log files to their servers. This is where the communication drops. Eventually, my TiVo times out waiting for a response from the TiVo, Inc. servers, and displays the now-infamous Service Unavailable error message.

I'll further go on record as being entirely willing to work with any Linux or UNIX geeks (term used with all due respect!) at TiVo, Inc. to help document and hopefully resolve this download issue. Seriously.

I am no expert but found a user who says it sounds like the same problem he had with Comcast and he modified a file to cause the Tivo to send a dummy Content-Length header (tried to post the url but this forum seems to want to hide it I guess).

Then I found this link http://www.arielbusiness.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/freeranger/TiVo/HowTo.htm
(search for Getting Guide Data Updates to Work) and it shows how to make the modification in more detail.

Not sure it will work, but its worth a try. As soon as I get to my Mom's Tivo I will try it, but that is gonna be a while.

[dlee0708]

I am no expert but found a user who says it sounds like the same problem he had with Comcast and he modified a file to cause the Tivo to send a dummy Content-Length header (tried to post the url but this forum seems to want to hide it I guess).

Then I found this link http://www.arielbusiness.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/freeranger/TiVo/HowTo.htm
(search for Getting Guide Data Updates to Work) and it shows how to make the modification in more detail.

Not sure it will work, but its worth a try. As soon as I get to my Mom's Tivo I will try it, but that is gonna be a while.

I should have read farther, apparently this no longer works in 3.0 software, but there is a guy who is going to see if he can create a binary patch. Do a google search for daily call failed service not available. Its at the deal database forum.

[nmiller855]

Due to where I have my series 1 located at this time, I only run the phone line to it about once a week & today was the day. The call failed in several different ways during the day but it finally suceeded at 8:08pm tonight.

[KeithB]

...but there is a guy who is going to see if he can create a binary patch. Do a google search for daily call failed service not available. Its at the deal database forum.

Yeah, I happen to know him. ;)

[tubular031]

Due to where I have my series 1 located at this time, I only run the phone line to it about once a week & today was the day. The call failed in several different ways during the day but it finally suceeded at 8:08pm tonight.

really? wonder if tivo is working on the fix finally

[WBragg]

I tested it again a few minutes ago with the same failure. I would say that it is not yet corrected. I tried both a test call and the force daily download.

[KeithB]

I took my Series 1 out of the bedroom last night, because it's completely :eek: useless right now. I'm moving it into my office tonight with a small LCD TV to document the network conversation, and attempt hex-editing the tivoapp program embedded texts from HTTP 1.0 to 1.1.

I certainly hope we hear something soon. The silence is deafening.

[QBiN]

The silence is deafening.

You're not kidding. There has simply been no explanation nor even an acknowledgment from TiVo that there is a problem despite the overwhelming numbers illustrating the obvious.

[dlee0708]

Yeah, I happen to know him. ;)

I was wondering if that was the case, I thought 3 things would be too much of a coincendence (username, Avatar and Tivo user). Good luck on that finding that code to hex edit, we are all pulling for you and would probably be promoted to ruler of the world if you fixed it.

[KeithB]

Good luck on that finding that code to hex edit, we are all pulling for you and would probably be promoted to ruler of the world if you fixed it.
You're too kind. ;) I had to work late this evening, so TiVo hacking isn't on my schedule tonight. :( I believe another user at ddb is already working on it this Thursday evening, though.

[dfeldmanmt]

I just discovered the wife's S1 stopped downloading a week or so ago, same resjlts as documented by others.

Is there any new info or resolution after 12/18 ?

DISH started shutting down service to their early boxes last summer, I guess 8-10 years is all we can expect --irrespective of system lifetime

Thanks

DON

[ervdoggie]

Yeah! What he said!!

Someone over at tivo flipped some switch and poof, death to all s1 via the network. They already have to crunch the data for the phone calls (for the RAS network) from s1 devices. Why stop the flow of data to the incomming tcp/ip connections? I would be willing to bet this is Tivos way of making the s1 boxes all but go away. You show me a handful of oldskool $10 modems that last for 8 years with daily usage. There are not many out there. Tivo knows what they are doing. Ill bet me and many others are going to get pissed and jump ship if they dont fix it soon.

The data is there already and all they need to do it turn the delivery back on.

I would like to see some stats of how many s1 s2 and s3 boxes are out there and how they phone home. I would bet you that there are lots of s1 boxes using tcp/ip and tivos plan is to get those users to buy a new one. Till TIVO tells me different that is my story and I am sticking to it.
</rant>

[ervdoggie]

Okay, so I left Tivo Series 1 alone for a while after switching to a different dial up number. It downloaded the rest of the guide on its own, yet only showed "4" days of programming & saying it was updated. Well, I should have 10-11 days of guide data. Forced another few calls and did a reboot, now 11 days of programming is back.

Today (1/12/09) Tivo is fussing again and calls aren't going through. I called Tivo Tech Support at 877-367-8486. Chose Tech Support from the menu system and then speak to a Tivo Rep and it put me right through once I verified my account details.

The tech I spoke to was pretty good. I of course had this blog in front of me to read, so I shot down all the *triage questions* "your Tivo is Brand "XXX" and made by xxx therefore...." Sure buddy. I pulled all those cards off their table and once his script was done and he knew I was getting guide data just not consistently, he was ready to play ball and work with me.

He was aware of Series 1 dialup issues as of late Nov/Dec 2008 as there was a software update released for all other Tivos but series 1 about that time. Now, as an I.T. Guy of 12 years, that is usually done (and called a patch) when you've changed the infrastructure (back end systems) and now the clients (us) have to now know something different in order to keep working. I think they did something that Series 1 doesn't like.

I asked what are they addressing about the "Nationwide" issue with Tivo Series 1s that are dialing in, specifically with modems? He could find no ticket or issue in their system and could see nothing. (not a good sign Tivo)

I asked they open a case, so they did. I also told him I would post in the Tivo Community forum and have people call in and get a case number. I managed a helpdesk and you can't manage what is not there, let alone know about it. We continued on with the issue.

I told him after 20 dials manually I will get a guide and it will update, so that removes all of their deflection about my "hardware" is made by xxx and my Tivo software XXX and my phone line is XXX issues trying to point to the customer in some way as if its their problem or their Tivo is broken.

No problems on the "client" end is what I asked him to agree with based on our conversation (and he did, since they record the calls). It is on their end or with one of their providers, infrastructure somewhere in the mix to affect this widespread of a customer base. I was informed lots of "outside vendors" are used to provide the Tivo service guide, whatever and there are lots of players that have a piece of their infrastructure to work with (cable/DSL/Phone Company/Provider etc.)

I confirmed my years of experience with him and the fact that it is soo widespread and not localized and all across the country indicates a more "centralized" issue. Not every cable/internet/telephone/DSL company makes a Nationwide change all at one time. That is Infrastructure Support SUICIDE to risk taking your network down at one time and his suggestion is completely not relevant (or someone should be fired!). He finally quieted down on that issue. We keep troubleshooting and agreed that it is NOT the Tivo hardware/customer problem since the issue cropped up November/December 2008 all of a sudden.

Problem still exists, I'm now checking it daily and keeping a log of when it calls on its "own" without my assistance and what the status of the last call was. My last successful call was 1/11/09 4:33am. Next scheduled call is 1/12/09 4:36pm. We'll see.

I think I'll check to see if another post exists to collect the dates and times our Series 1 Tivos are connecting on its "own" without any assistance to see if there is a particular time most success is taking place. Stay tuned...

[Rick Auricchio]

Mine's been doing the same for the past few weeks. I was able to get data by forcing a daily call last week.

I'm on dialup, Series 1 Philips HDR212.

Tonight it said "Service Unavailable." I forced a call and got the same result at 10:07 PST.

[ditch]

STILL no official stance from TiVo~!!!!~!~!~!~!~!!~!~!M KL NJKMB !JHBHKJ~NKLK K"@K @KL!KPO~M###KIM#)KO L~OP{:!P#K~

[tubular031]

I ended up just about steeling a s2 with lifetime on craigslist. had this not happened I would be on the phone with dishnet ordering one of their dvrs. I can not believe tivo would do this. that is not right and its no wonder they are starting to sink...

[johnhartshorn]

Just to add my sob story to the list, my last successful call was on 3 Jan at 10:09PM CST (Forced). 53 calls (Both forced and normal) have all failed in multiple area codes since, including a 212 number that has been very stable. :mad:


John

Phillips Series 1 with lifetime.

[mec1991]

Ervdoggie,

Thanks for your post. I called again (my saga is in the longer thread), got another CSR who also professed to know nothing about the problem, tried to keep to his script but I got annoyed and asked to speak to someone higher up only to be left on hold till I finally said to hell with it and hung up. I wish I had the technical background you and some others have to know what to say to them. :o

TiVo - and I know someone from the company has to have read this forum - this is just not cool. I have never bashed the company and have rolled my eyes at some of the customer service complaints posted here in the past, but this is absurd. It has been going on for over a month now without any sort of acknowledgement from the company.

Just tell us you are aware of the problem and are working on a fix. Trying to hide something doesn't accomplish anything good, it only makes you look bad, no matter the eventual outcome.

[ditch]

Ervdoggie,
Just tell us you are aware of the problem and are working on a fix. Trying to hide something doesn't accomplish anything good, it only makes you look bad, no matter the eventual outcome.

ARE YOU HEARING THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JayBird]

We'd like to believe that people from TiVo read these forums and take note of every problem that crops up, but the truth is, they don't always catch them all. So if you are all waiting for someone at TiVo to discover this issue on this forum, you may be waiting for a long time for this problem to get fixed.

Also it's obvious that, per people's experiences trying to get help with this issue through the regular customer support channels (as discussed in all of the various threads on this issue), that going that route is appears to be a dead end ("we've never heard of that problem... must be a problem with your TiVo...").

Has anybody with this problem sent a PM to TiVoPony, TiVoJerry, and/or TiVoStephen about this issue? They all work for TiVo and tend to assist when problems are brought to their attention.

My Series 1 has been decommissioned at this point, so this issue doesn't affect me, or I would be the one contacting these guys and making sure it gets dealt with properly.

[SleepyBob]

I brought my TiVo 1 back online last month, but could never get through for the calls. I assumed it was Vonage and Charter Phone causing the problem (tried at two houses), but maybe not.

Are any Series 1's able to dial in?

[erniebert]

I just spoke with a tech who asked me to forward him all the message board links and websites that are reporting this issue.
He was very nice, but also stated that he was unaware that there was a huge issue but would love more details and to see how widespread it is.
Can you fine people give me a list of sites/boards reporting this issue and I will forward them to him in a email!! Hopefully he can get this escalated?!?!?!? Just report the sites in this thread and I will keep checking them!!

Ernie

[mec1991]

Are any Series 1's able to dial in?

If you force anywhere from 6 to 10 calls you might get lucky.:(

[dbranco]

Thanks erniebert! Here are a couple others:

"Series 1 Not Downloading Data"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=410172

"Service Unavailable with TurboNet"
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=413018

[mec1991]

Regarding some of the earlier posts in this thread, I honestly do not believe TiVo is the type company who would deliberately do this. (I can see Philips or Sanyo attempting something like this, but that is another story....)

But even if they were the type, they would have to know you cannot get away with behavior like that in the age of the internet. The "good old days" where companies did not have to worry about bad publicity being spread worldwide are long gone.

That having been said, the silence from TiVo is truly deafening.

[johnhartshorn]

Just to add my sob story to the list, my last successful call was on 3 Jan at 10:09PM CST (Forced). 53 calls (Both forced and normal) have all failed in multiple area codes since, including a 212 number that has been very stable. :mad:


John

Phillips Series 1 with lifetime.

Update: I have now had several calls successfully connect and start downloading, but all have ended with "Call interrupted", and I have not gotten to the point of being able to update guide data. The only times I have ever been able to get calls throughis in the wee hours, so I may have to stay up tonight repeatedly forcing calls.

In another thread/forum forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaythread?rootPostID=10412199 some reported being able to temporarily switch to a 800 number, but when I try to get new numbers, it wants to dial out to update the numbers list, and of course gets the same issue.

Does anyone know what the "800" number is, so I can enter it as a pre-fix? I tried capturing the default nunmber TIVO uses, but because it puts a "1" in front of it, my VOIP system errors out before the call is made, and doesn't record it.

Update #2 - After sitting up and babysitting last night (34 forced calls, 31 of which "failed to connect" or "service not answering", I finally finished the download (A total of 142 calls over 5 days, of which 5 successfully downloaded any data). I can now see local numbers to dial, but no 800 number is listed. Froma toll perspective, it doesn't matter, as I am on VOIP, and charged for minutes used regardless of what area code. I would just like a number that works.

John

[dbranco]

GREAT NEWS! Reply from TiVoJerry in this thread!!!

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=410172&page=7

(see post #192)