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View Full Version : I'd like my lifetime service refunded and purchase price on my Series 1 refunded, pls


AntennaRocks
12-14-2008, 05:33 PM
Hey,

I have a Series 1 we use for OTA recording from the antenna - mostly just one channel - PBS. After the digital switch, I'd like to get the new schedule and just leave the Tivo on that one channel and record the shows for the kids. It would be nice to have the Tivo change the channels on the converter box as well.

If Tivo can't manage to send the OTA schedule to me in February - then what?
I guess at that point it would be pretty clear to me that Tivo lifetime service is really "lie" fetime service -- and you can't really trust Tivo...

I've heard about these "upgrades" - but they all involve additional cost -- one of the reasons we went with a lifetime subscription in the first place. How about this? I'd be happy for Tivo to refund my full purchase price and 'lifetime' service agreement cost. After that, then we could talk about whether or not I would choose Tivo again for my entertainment system.

wmcbrine
12-14-2008, 06:43 PM
For heaven's sake, it's a Series 1. How long have you had it already? I doubt that you haven't gotten your money's worth. And TiVo has always characterized the "lifetime" service as the lifetime of the box, not the customer. It could be reasonably argued that the Series 1 has reached the end of its lifetime with the digital transition, if it didn't pass it long ago.

Now, I do wonder why TiVo felt they had to abandon the Series 1, to such an extent that they can't even provide updates for daylight saving time until an end user hacks it for them, much less add support for digital subchannels, which ought to be an easy fix. I agree with you: they should do it. But, to say that you deserve a full refund if they don't is silly.

tgmii
12-14-2008, 07:04 PM
If you put one of the digital converter boxes, which the government is subsidizing, and you should be able to get for $20 or less, you should be ok. Especially in your one channel scenario.

As far as the argument for EOL of the box, if Tivo has said "Life of the box", I think thats about said it... they should support codes for the converter boxes, etc. My series 1 is sitting in bottom of my closet, its soul (lifetime sub), ascended to my HD, so I'm not in the same situation.. but your solution is solvable with very little effort or expense.

I think Tivo has served the community well, so "trusting" Tivo is a given at this point.

Tom

wmcbrine
12-14-2008, 07:12 PM
No, tgmii, I don't think a box will be enough. He already knows about that, but he's complaining that the guide data won't work -- because it will all be for ATSC subchannels, which the S1 doesn't understand with its current software. I think some people have come up with workarounds, but they're not complete solutions.

Adam1115
12-14-2008, 07:18 PM
The government is the one mandating that Analog OTA be shut down, not TiVo.

Why do you think it's TiVo's fault...? My VCR won't work after the cutover either, but I'm not pissed off at Sony...

wmcbrine
12-14-2008, 07:24 PM
The transition was planned and known even before the first TiVo came out, IIRC (though not the exact date). Anyone who manufactured NTSC-only equipment after that time knew that it would become obsolete at some point.

lafos
12-14-2008, 07:26 PM
And some vendors are still selling analog-only tuners and TVs.

kb7oeb
12-14-2008, 07:47 PM
In the one channel scenario configure the series 1 for cable and connect the converter box and remove all the channels except pbs, you will at least have guide data for that one channel.

mr.unnatural
12-14-2008, 08:19 PM
My VCR won't work after the cutover either, but I'm not pissed off at Sony...
You're the first person I've run across in a long time that actually admits to still using a VCR.:D

Adam1115
12-14-2008, 08:36 PM
You're the first person I've run across in a long time that actually admits to still using a VCR.:D

Well..... the other thing is that my VCR is newer than a series 1, but I bet a lot of people still use them? I don't have time to convert all of those tapes to DVD...

jeepguy_1980
12-14-2008, 08:45 PM
The digital transition was mandated in 1997 and it was to be in full effect by Dec 31, 2006. But it was delayed until Feb 2009. Since you bought your box after 1997, you knew it wasn't going to last past 2006, yet it's still working. So in reality, you should have to back pay TiVo for the 14 months of service your box got.

Turtleboy
12-14-2008, 08:47 PM
I want a pony.

magnus
12-14-2008, 10:08 PM
Technically, your Tivo would still work and Tivo would have had no way to have know in 1999/2000 that this would happen. And it could tune to local channels with ATT Uverse settings or some other guide data setting that is close. Obviously, you would not get any of the sub-channels but the main channels could be tuned to.



Hey,

I have a Series 1 we use for OTA recording from the antenna - mostly just one channel - PBS. After the digital switch, I'd like to get the new schedule and just leave the Tivo on that one channel and record the shows for the kids. It would be nice to have the Tivo change the channels on the converter box as well.

If Tivo can't manage to send the OTA schedule to me in February - then what?
I guess at that point it would be pretty clear to me that Tivo lifetime service is really "lie" fetime service -- and you can't really trust Tivo...

I've heard about these "upgrades" - but they all involve additional cost -- one of the reasons we went with a lifetime subscription in the first place. How about this? I'd be happy for Tivo to refund my full purchase price and 'lifetime' service agreement cost. After that, then we could talk about whether or not I would choose Tivo again for my entertainment system.

magnus
12-14-2008, 10:21 PM
I think the easiest way Tivo could do this would be to:

1) Create a OTA HD lineup for S1 boxes (with 3 digit channel codes). This would be a server side fix and would not require code changes.

2) Channels would be mapped to the order of
331 = 33-1
332 = 33-2
333 = 33-3

3) The boxes that currently work with the S1 would not be updated. Meaning that you would have to find an RCA box (and any others that are currently supported) for example to make this work.





Now, I do wonder why TiVo felt they had to abandon the Series 1, to such an extent that they can't even provide updates for daylight saving time until an end user hacks it for them, much less add support for digital subchannels, which ought to be an easy fix. I agree with you: they should do it. But, to say that you deserve a full refund if they don't is silly.

wmcbrine
12-14-2008, 10:27 PM
The digital transition was mandated in 1997 and it was to be in full effect by Dec 31, 2006. But it was delayed until Feb 2009. Since you bought your box after 1997, you knew it wasn't going to last past 2006, yet it's still working. So in reality, you should have to back pay TiVo for the 14 months of service your box got.:rolleyes:

I'd expect manufacturers to be aware of the transition (since it's their business), but not most consumers (until recently), unless they were educated by the manufacturers. Which they weren't. So I do hold the manufacturers accountable for that... just not much, in the case of something as old as a Series 1.

cdeckert219
12-14-2008, 11:32 PM
I want a pony.

+1 :D

steve614
12-14-2008, 11:38 PM
The OP has a Series 1 with lifetime.
When was the lifetime purchased?
Could it be eligible for the one time transfer to a new unit (assuming Tivo still honors that)?
I forgot what the cutoff date was.
The OP might not know about this.

newskilz
12-15-2008, 02:00 AM
The OP has a Series 1 with lifetime.
When was the lifetime purchased?
Could it be eligible for the one time transfer to a new unit (assuming Tivo still honors that)?
I forgot what the cutoff date was.
The OP might not know about this.

IIRC 1/21/2000 was the cut off date for the lifetime transfer at free or significant savings.

Further more, I myself am using a Phillips S1 with lifetime and currently enjoying all of the normal shows via a converter box. It is true that without a lot of hacking, which I at this point do not want to try, you cannot get any sub-channels. However, you are not getting them now, so there is no loss there, and also what sub-channels do you really want anyway, most of the ones I get are just radar screens or live web cams and such? With the converter box, your S1 can continue to function and operate just like if it were still using analog over-the-air reception, the only difference is you are using an external tuner with IR blasters to control the tuner instead of the tuner in the box. And it will continue to operate just like it originally did way after the total switch over to digital broadcasting in Feb 2009.

Part of what makes the converter box work is telling your TiVo that you are using a cable box, and the trick is finding a cable company in your area that has the same line up for the broadcasting channels so that channel 5 is really digital broadcast 5 etc. In this way, you can continue to get your scheduling info and watch any channel you get now on your S1 (assuming of course all of your local stations have to switch to digital)

If there are any left, you can apply for and get the government coupon for a converter box, and then go buy one with a total out of pocket around $20? There are several threads on this site concerning various converter box models and how to use them with S1 and S2 models.

Anyway, if you want to for $20 or so, and say 30 minutes of your time, you can get a converter box and record any show you want from any of the main channels until the S1 blows up, or the government changes things again. Effectively upgrading your S1 to be compatible with current technology, albeit unofficially and unsupported, but no hacking required unless as mentioned earlier you want to get sub-channels for some reason.

Sorry if long winded, I went through the same thing and decided for now, it was way more cost effective to pay $20 and keep my S1 usable and keep all current usability than to pay for a new box. At some point obviously I'll want to upgrade but this way I have the choice as to when... and right now that when is not here- when I decide the price is right to buy and hopefully they offer a reasonable (In my mind) lifetime transfer fee, ie less than I can buy a NEW lifetime service at.

I hope I was able to help some at least. Feel free to PM me if you think I can help you any more.

On a side note: Personally,and this is obviously just my opinion; why are some people saying what they are saying? How is TiVo at fault at all for the S1 product becoming outdated? You buy a car or computer that becomes outdated and is understood as such when you buy it. Same for any product really, so not sure where anyone gets the idea at all that TiVo or some other company should have to keep supporting and upgrading a box made 5 years ago (or whenever the last S1 was made) The box did not become useless 6 months after purchase, but rather many years after the projected lifetime of the product. You bought product lifetime,as I did presumably, to make the long term cost cheaper for the box, eliminating any further service fees. And in TiVo's thinking you've gotten a great deal out of it because it is still working way beyond the projected time it was to work, and definitely past it's warrantly period. Reality is TiVo doesn't owe you or anyone else anything simply because you have been using the product for many years now and so if they were to do some sort of "refund" on the purchase it would have to be prorated out, which would mean no money to refund, just like a tire that was bought new and now has no tread left- it prorates to no money refunded. TiVo can't as a company keep all past units up to speed at minimal cost, it would make them bankrupt. They need to move newer units in order to make money, just like a car company. And so far that I've seen, TiVo has made several efforts to help those move on up to newer and better boxes by offering special prices and such;though I for one just haven't bit the bullet yet and put up that much money. Now, again this is just my personal thoughts and opinions, not trying to flame anyone or make anyone mad, just stating my viewpoint. Otherwise I'm trying to be helpful here.

classicsat
12-15-2008, 08:12 AM
I think the easiest way Tivo could do this would be to:

1) Create a OTA HD lineup for S1 boxes (with 3 digit channel codes). This would be a server side fix and would not require code changes.


It has been said already, by myself and Tivojerry even, that TiVo does not want to pull server side shenanigans to make Series 1s work with convertor boxes. Their solution is to offer upgrades to a TiVo HD, although not a free upgrade.

lew
12-15-2008, 08:40 AM
Tivo has a special offer for series 1 customers who are using an antenna. I don't know what that offer is so I don't know if the tivo is treating the OP fairly.

Some of the previous posters have it reversed. Tivo has known for years the analog tuners would not be workable after the digital switch was thrown. Tivo had plenty of time to support an external convertor box. Conceptually this is isn't different then supporting a cable or satellite box. A few posters mentioned how tivo could make a server side change, and support at least some external converters.

Tivo has decided it's not cost effective to support the number of customers in this position. I don't think the OP is entitled to a full refund but I think the OP is entitled to have his LS transferred for free and a deeply discounted refurbished box.

tgmii
12-15-2008, 09:02 AM
I agree with lew.

My earlier point was... tivo will record what comes in the inputs, the rest is blaster code support, and the channel mapping (which I wasn't aware of, but can't imagine is that difficult).

wmcbrine
12-15-2008, 09:40 AM
... what sub-channels do you really want anyway, most of the ones I get are just radar screens or live web cams and such?The OP mentioned PBS, which is one place where you can often find useful content on subchannels. The PBS affiliates make much better use of subchannel capability than the other channels do, at least around here. (The downside of which is, they bit-starve their HD. But someone watching a downconverted signal through a CECB and TiVo won't notice that.)

Part of what makes the converter box work is telling your TiVo that you are using a cable box, and the trick is finding a cable company in your area that has the same line up for the broadcasting channels so that channel 5 is really digital broadcast 5 etc.Yeah... good luck with that. You'll probably find that some channels line up, and some don't.

How is TiVo at fault at all for the S1 product becoming outdated? You buy a car or computer that becomes outdated and is understood as such when you buy it.Cars and computers don't have arbitrary cut-off dates. Old ones still work today. Cars are generally abandoned due to too much wear and tear, and computers because something better comes along. But I still drive a 1992 car, and I have a computer from 1978 that still works.

But yeah, TiVo's own projected "lifetime" for the Series 1 units has been met. Maybe they should've built them more poorly, so they'd have actually broken down by now. ;)

txporter
12-15-2008, 12:41 PM
Series1 will continue to work fine after the cut-over if connected to analog cable...

This is like complaining that your VCR won't play DVDs. The format is changing and not because Tivo decided to change it. There are always points in time when wholesale cut-overs happen.

Jason

lew
12-15-2008, 12:52 PM
This is like complaining that your VCR won't play DVDs. The format is changing and not because Tivo decided to change it. There are always points in time when wholesale cut-overs happen.

Jason

A series 1 unit can use an I/R blaster to change the channel on an external box. A series 1 unit can record the output from said external box. Tivo has decided it's not worth the time/money it would take to make it happen.

I think your comparison is not only wrong but somewhat condescending.

Offering OTA series 1 customers some kind of upgrade deal may make more sense then spending the $$$ to support external boxes with series 1.

Part of the $$ we pay tivo (monthly or a one time payment for LS) is to include software revisions, for issues like this.

The OP hasn't posted the details of the deal tivo offered him. I don't know if the OP is being unreasonable or if tivo is being unreasonable.

Adam1115
12-15-2008, 01:57 PM
So if when the series 1 launched in 1999, they put a warning that said "In TEN YEARS the government will switch to digital TV and you won't be able to record OTA with this box." You wouldn't have bought it?

ciper
12-15-2008, 04:54 PM
The sticking point is that a relatively simple change would allow the S1 to control the STB's. A couple different hacks already exist as noted in this thread.

Some of you assume the only S1s still running are lifetime. I can promise you there are still plenty of S1 units paying their bill. In fact although not related to this issuethere are quite a large number of them in the UK which still pay for service.

wmcbrine
12-15-2008, 05:45 PM
Some of you assume the only S1s still running are lifetime.I haven't seen anyone assume that. In my case, I was only referring to the OP, who does have it.

Dancar
12-15-2008, 05:59 PM
Series1 will continue to work fine after the cut-over if connected to analog cable...

This is like complaining that your VCR won't play DVDs. The format is changing and not because Tivo decided to change it. There are always points in time when wholesale cut-overs happen.

Jason

Not exactly. Your VCR will continue to be able to play tapes until it wears out. You can even record shows after February if you get the converter with the government coupon.

A Series 1 will NOT work properly with cable once the cable company switches to digital. Unlike OTA broadcasters, they are not mandated to do this on a schedule, and many of them have been advertising "if you subscribe to our service, you don't have to do anything for the switch."

But in some cases this is misleading. In the Seattle area, after months of heavy "Subscribe to Comcast and don't worry about it" advertising, they have announced that sometime in 2009 channels 30-99 will move to the digital band. This means that Series 1 TiVos will not be able to function like a TiVo without the unreliable infrared dongle - and I don't even know yet if that will work even WITH the dongle.

I'm hoping that TiVo will offer free Livetime Service transfers for all still-functioning Series 1 machines to replacement QAM-equipped models.

lafos
12-15-2008, 06:17 PM
But what about us Betamax and HD DVD adopters?

Seriously, when I pick a technology, I have come to realize that it isn't forever. That may cause some increased costs down the road, but can you surf the web with a slide rule?

s2krazy
12-15-2008, 06:31 PM
I think at best, the OP might have a case for a pro-rated adjustment. Tivo should refund him $2.00.

j/k

I am retiring my S1 because I dropped my phone line. I know I can hack it to use a LAN but that cost is more than it's worth on such an old box (with original HDs and no lifetime sub). It's going to be relegated to the third bedroom to use as a simple dumb "VCR"

magnus
12-15-2008, 09:38 PM
And yet it would be better than doing nothing... and would not require a lot of changes.

It's kind of funny how you shoot it down as "shenanigans" and yet it would work.

It has been said already, by myself and Tivojerry even, that TiVo does not want to pull server side shenanigans to make Series 1s work with convertor boxes. Their solution is to offer upgrades to a TiVo HD, although not a free upgrade.

lafos
12-16-2008, 02:49 AM
And yet it would be better than doing nothing... and would not require a lot of changes.

How many active S1's are there? The last new one was sold in 2002 (I think, since I bought a 140 S2 in 2002). Would the resources be better spent where they can have the biggest overall impact?

ciper
12-16-2008, 02:55 AM
How many active S1's are there? The last new one was sold in 2002 (I think, since I bought a 140 S2 in 2002). Would the resources be better spent where they can have the biggest overall impact?
I doubt many can argue that Youtube is more important than the Digital Set Top boxes!!!

swezey
12-16-2008, 02:56 AM
I think we should all hug....:D

magnus
12-16-2008, 05:27 AM
How difficult could it be to take the OTA settings for the series 3s and remap them as I suggested?

Yes, I would prefer to see cooperative scheduling with my S2 and S3 Tivos but if they're just going to use the time to add more advertising... then I would think it better to make this change.


How many active S1's are there? The last new one was sold in 2002 (I think, since I bought a 140 S2 in 2002). Would the resources be better spent where they can have the biggest overall impact?

Okeemike
12-16-2008, 05:47 AM
..... but can you surf the web with a slide rule?


No, but wouldn't be cool?

ggieseke
12-16-2008, 07:05 AM
How difficult could it be to take the OTA settings for the series 3s and remap them as I suggested?


Since there's a beta out there for S1s regarding Suggestions, I asked the Powers That Be over at TiVo that very question yesterday. No answer yet but I'm hoping...

magnus
12-16-2008, 07:19 AM
And if they're actually making code changes to the S1 then they might as well do it right (instead of the the server side "shenanigans" :) ).

Since there's a beta out there for S1s regarding Suggestions, I asked the Powers That Be over at TiVo that very question yesterday. No answer yet but I'm hoping...

lew
12-16-2008, 12:03 PM
How difficult could it be to take the OTA settings for the series 3s and remap them as I suggested?

Yes, I would prefer to see cooperative scheduling with my S2 and S3 Tivos but if they're just going to use the time to add more advertising... then I would think it better to make this change.

I'll speculate there aren't that many S1 customers that get their programming OTA. Assume those customers are scattered through out the country. I don't know how much it costs for every different guide data system tivo has to set up but tivo may be setting up many different lineups with only a handful of customers for each lineup.

magnus
12-16-2008, 06:13 PM
And Tivo really would not have any way to know because all the people using OTA and S1s are probably using a workaround to do so. So, they probably have their Tivo getting guide data for cable/satellite and only really using a handful of channels. There's really no way to know how many boxes this really affects.

I'll speculate there aren't that many S1 customers that get their programming OTA. Assume those customers are scattered through out the country. I don't know how much it costs for every different guide data system tivo has to set up but tivo may be setting up many different lineups with only a handful of customers for each lineup.

newskilz
12-17-2008, 12:47 AM
Sorry a little late getting back here...

The OP mentioned PBS, which is one place where you can often find useful content on subchannels. The PBS affiliates make much better use of subchannel capability than the other channels do, at least around here. (The downside of which is, they bit-starve their HD. But someone watching a downconverted signal through a CECB and TiVo won't notice that.)

I somewhat thought that may be the case. However they never mentioned wanting to get the sub-channels but rather just PBS in general so I assumed at least that meant continuing to get the programming they are getting now, which is not sub-channels.

(In reference to finding guide data via a local cable company) Yeah... good luck with that. You'll probably find that some channels line up, and some don't.

Well, as I can see your view point, there are many who have used this exact method including myself with perfect match ups. However, I will also say that I can see how this method would be much more likely to do when not in a remote area and at least somewhat close to a metropolitan area.

Cars and computers don't have arbitrary cut-off dates. Old ones still work today. Cars are generally abandoned due to too much wear and tear, and computers because something better comes along. But I still drive a 1992 car, and I have a computer from 1978 that still works.

:rolleyes: Yes it is true that cars and computers don't have "cut off dates" and they still work. So does the S1 we are talking about, it still functions as built, but you just won't be able to run any of the current technology on it; and in this case it's digital tv. Just like you could use a Commodore 64 but you wouldn't be able to run anywhere near any current games on it. Same difference to me to compare S1 and technology and cars/computers-they may still be able to do what they were designed to do, but cannot do something they weren't designed to do. Like your 1992 car it does fine for getting you around, but it likely doesn't have modern safety equipment like air bags or abs? I was just trying to say.... Out of curiosity: Is this 1978 computer an Apple computer or what? And do you actually use it for anything useful other than saying it still runs? Just wondering, 'cause my brother has several original Apple computers and they run, but he can't do anything with them really.

But yeah, TiVo's own projected "lifetime" for the Series 1 units has been met. Maybe they should've built them more poorly, so they'd have actually broken down by now. ;)

Too late now!!!! Good for me at least though! Uh oh, now I've done it, hope my S1 didn't hear that.

scandia101
12-17-2008, 01:31 AM
I'd like my lifetime service refunded and purchase price on my Series 1 refunded, pls

I want a free TiVo and free service for 6 - 10 years too.

classicsat
12-17-2008, 08:49 AM
And yet it would be better than doing nothing... and would not require a lot of changes.

It's kind of funny how you shoot it down as "shenanigans" and yet it would work.

I am not saying it cannot be done, just TiVo doesn't want to do it. They want full "antenna with box" support, and being it won't happen for Series 1s, there will be no support at all.

lew
12-17-2008, 08:52 AM
I want a free TiVo and free service for 6 - 10 years too.

Does anyone know what hardware/service deal tivo is offering those (few) customers who have a S1 and are getting their service OTA?

I agree with those posters who think the OPs refund request is unreasonable. I disagree with those posters who think tivo is entitled to fail to support the digital change without compensating those customers. Again the reason for not supporting an external converter is economic not technical.

We really can't intelligently comment on the OPs situation without knowing what tivo is offering him. We know he doesn't like the deal he was offered but he's not sharing the details with us.

swezey
01-09-2009, 08:33 AM
Man we are such a bunch of spoiled whiners... I'll tell you what - go spend 6 months in West Africa like I just did and you'll come back thankful for clean drinking water, inside toilets, air conditioning, basic cable (or ANY TV service for that matter), a phone that works pretty much every time you pick it up, internet access, paved roads and McDonald's hamburgers. Seriously. Get a grip....

ZeoTiVo
01-09-2009, 08:53 AM
Tivo has decided it's not cost effective to support the number of customers in this position. I don't think the OP is entitled to a full refund but I think the OP is entitled to have his LS transferred for free and a deeply discounted refurbished box.
so do my TV makers owe me a deeply discounted flat panel TV because they can not tune the digital OTA? Which, BTW, the Series 1 was NEVER said to be able to do.
This is just nuts. TiVo has offered reasonable upgrade paths to newer equipment. I am happily using my Series 2 DTs now but getting my second TiVo HD shipped to me now as I realize there is an inevitable upgrade cycle in all consumer electronics.
Oh well, off to post on a HP forum about how they owe me a deeply discounted PC to run Vista correctly on. :D

ZeoTiVo
01-09-2009, 08:59 AM
Cars and computers don't have arbitrary cut-off dates. Old ones still work today.

Do you recall when leaded gas was phased out for the public good? Any car that took leaded gas was out of luck after the cut off date imposed by the Govt.

I would much rather TiVo work on the series 4 box that gives us an upgrade path when cable companies go all digital versus figuring out how a DT can record 2 digital streams at once so it stays a dual tuner.

lew
01-09-2009, 09:18 AM
so do my TV makers owe me a deeply discounted flat panel TV because they can not tune the digital OTA? Which, BTW, the Series 1 was NEVER said to be able to do.
This is just nuts. TiVo has offered reasonable upgrade paths to newer equipment. I am happily using my Series 2 DTs now but getting my second TiVo HD shipped to me now as I realize there is an inevitable upgrade cycle in all consumer electronics.
Oh well, off to post on a HP forum about how they owe me a deeply discounted PC to run Vista correctly on. :D

Your TV set will work with a government subsidized converter box. The series 1 has always had the ability to control an external (cable/satellite) converter box.

Evidently tivo decided it wasn't a productive use of the their resources to support external digital boxes for Series 1 units. That's not a technological problem (an old PC won't run Vista) but an economic decision. It looks like tivo has transferred LS, for free, for at least some of those subscribers. That's fair enough. I don't think the OP is entitled to a refund.

Do you recall when leaded gas was phased out for the public good? Any car that took leaded gas was out of luck after the cut off date imposed by the Govt.



Owners of those cars can still purchase lead (or a lead substitute) at any auto parts store. A gas additive. A solution that's very analogous to purchasing an external digital box.

I don't agree with the OP who thinks a full refund is entitled

Southcross
01-09-2009, 09:40 AM
reading this... I'm going to return every PC I purchased in the last 29 years.... I was told by the sales person that "this machine has all the storage I would ever need"... That $3000 machine with the 10MB hard drive... the $2200 machine with the 110MB Hard drive... the $2800 machine with the 540MB HD... so on an so on... hmmm, I need to go find something else to complain about....

OP is flame bait, as well as this thread...

ZeoTiVo
01-09-2009, 10:38 AM
Evidently tivo decided it wasn't a productive use of the their resources to support external digital boxes for Series 1 units. That's not a technological problem (an old PC won't run Vista) but an economic decision. Companies can use customers that spend money with them because they are loyal customers because they like the products and the value, not customers who stay loyal because they get stuff for less than cost from the company.

This is like reading about people who bought into ARM home loans and can not afford the high interest rate that was possible with the product. Why bail them out when the smart person who rented because they could not afford a house is left on the sideline not getting a free handout.
In this case the smart people knew they would have to upgrade their OTA setup and did and are not here whining about how their S1 can not do digital OTA

randyf
01-10-2009, 06:08 PM
Okay, a couple of observations:

1. You can still use a sliderule to do what you paid for it to do 20 yrs ago.
2. A VCR (Beta or VHS ) will still play tapes, record video and even record live TV AFTER the switch is thrown (with a converter box).
3. As far as being mad at Sony for the VCR.. Sony didn't sell you a feature called L I F E T I M E for $300.00
4. TiVo DID know about the upcoming digital transition.

As far as "getting your use " out of a Series 1. That's for each user to decide WHEN he / she has gotten their "use" out of it.

It's been a long time, I agree. But if a person paid for Lifetime service, and the unit still operates it should still be useable. (And let's not forget that early series 1's were in the $500-600 range )

That said. I also don't think it's reasonable to expect a full refund for unit / service since there has clearly been quite a bit of service provided to date. However it wouldn't kill TiVo to offer to either trade the S1 for a S2 refurb, offer to xfer the lifetime service, or some other accommodation..

magnus
01-10-2009, 06:41 PM
They have and the OP never took advantage of it.