Series 2 Networking and OSX

[drshame]

I can't get my Series 2 Humax Tivo hooked up with my Mac Pro under OSX 10.5..even though it all works fine thru the wireless network under OSX 10.4.

The hardware is not changed. I just boot from a different drive into OSX 10.5.
I've compared setings and they look exactly the same.
Anyone know why 10.5 is so much harder to network than 10.4?

No matter what I try...10.5 networking won't work.

:(

Also, what files, other than Roxio, may be available to allow Tivo Video to play on Quicktime?
I have the mpeg 2 QT Codec and is still doesn;t work!

[Yoav]

I can't get my Series 2 Humax Tivo hooked up with my Mac Pro under OSX 10.5..even though it all works fine thru the wireless network under OSX 10.4.

The hardware is not changed. I just boot from a different drive into OSX 10.5.
I've compared setings and they look exactly the same.
Anyone know why 10.5 is so much harder to network than 10.4?

No matter what I try...10.5 networking won't work.

:(

Also, what files, other than Roxio, may be available to allow Tivo Video to play on Quicktime?
I have the mpeg 2 QT Codec and is still doesn;t work!

Can't answer your 10.5 question.. Works fine and well for me from here. Check if you can ping your tivo from your mac? See if you can connect to 'http://<tivoip>/' etc?

As for playing your files on a mac, you can either download a program that can play mpeg-2 transport streams (the format that tivo stores the movies in). Those include MplayerOSX (http://mplayerosx.sourceforge.net/) and VLC (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/download-macosx.html). Alternatively you can get Perian (http://www.perian.org/) which is a set of quicktime plugins to let quicktime play more formats, and I believe that includes mpeg-2 TS (although I havent tried it myself). I'm not entirely familiar with Roxio's software, but if it doesn't decrypt the file for you, you'll also need to get yourself a copy of 'tivodecode' to decrypt the file first....

Your other option (the one I prefer) is to convert the files you download to a different format that quicktime can play (and that usually takes up a lot less space). I use iTiVo (http://code.google.com/p/itivo/) to download and pyTivoX (http://code.google.com/p/pytivox/) to send movies back since I maintain them, but there is a whole slew of options listed on the tivo blog (http://www.tivoblog.com/archives/2008/02/20/tivo-software-roundup-mac-only/)

[drshame]

I've tried "seeing" the Tivo under 10.5.
Doesn't work.
Must be some kind of extra security.
10.4 works fine...i'll stick to it for a while!

[bedelman]

I've tried "seeing" the Tivo under 10.5.
Doesn't work.
Must be some kind of extra security.
10.4 works fine...i'll stick to it for a while!

Tiger vs. Leopard shouldn't be making any difference in getting it to respond using a browser going to the IP address. The firewall changed a bunch in Leopard -- but that wouldn't be affecting browser access. Is the IP address of your Macintosh vastly different when you boot into Leopard?

[drshame]

Bob..I'll check the I-P address the next time I boot into 10.5.

No matter what I try..it isn't seen by the wireless network.

Under 10.4, it's a quick easy, reliable/repeatable set-up.

Mac Pro, Apple Airport, Tivo Wireless antennas.

[bedelman]

I get you -- and I'm far more complicated with three Airport Expresses, two Airport Extremes (all 802.11n variety), Intel iMac (Leopard), MacPro (Leopard), PowerMac G5 (Tiger), 2 MacBook Pro's (Leopard), and eight TiVo boxes.

One thing is that I use static IP addresses for anything that isn't portable -- but that's just me.

[Yoav]

Bob..I'll check the I-P address the next time I boot into 10.5.

No matter what I try..it isn't seen by the wireless network.

Under 10.4, it's a quick easy, reliable/repeatable set-up.

Mac Pro, Apple Airport, Tivo Wireless antennas.

Ermm silly question: MacOS remembers your wireless networks/passwords.. but if you install 10.5 in a seperate location, you might need to reconfigure your wireless settings.. is the computer able to see other things, just not the tivo?

[westside_guy]

I've had no problems with 10.5 and Series 2 or Series 3 Tivos.

[drshame]

Without telling me any personal secrets..how did you get Tivo to see your Mac under 10.5?

I try the regular way that works under 10.4 and it doesn't work under 10.5 with my Tivo.

Yes..I reset the password on the Tivo under 10.5 and the Mac still won't see it!

:(

[Yoav]

Without telling me any personal secrets..how did you get Tivo to see your Mac under 10.5?

I try the regular way that works under 10.4 and it doesn't work under 10.5 with my Tivo.

Yes..I reset the password on the Tivo under 10.5 and the Mac still won't see it!

:(
How did you "reset the password" on the tivo? There is no password to access the tivo (other than a MAK key, which you can't set).

Are you talking about a wireless security password? If so, that's generally controlled by your router, and is supposed to be the same value on your computer and the tivo and the router..

Unless you're using ad-hoc networking... (are you?)

To answer your specific question: my tivo and my mac are both on my home wireless network. They 'just see each other'. I didn't have to do anything extra.

[westside_guy]

Without telling me any personal secrets..how did you get Tivo to see your Mac under 10.5?

I try the regular way that works under 10.4 and it doesn't work under 10.5 with my Tivo.

Yes..I reset the password on the Tivo under 10.5 and the Mac still won't see it!

:(

I can see my Tivo using the application iTivo.

I can see my Tivo by going through a web browser (Firefox or Safari) to the exact same URL as I used under 10.4.

If you're using an address that looks like "dvr-1234.local" to get at your Tivo, try using the actual numeric address of the Tivo instead. Alternatively, try putting a period after "local" (so instead of "dvr-1234.local" type "dvr-1234.local.").

[bedelman]

...(so instead of "dvr-1234.local" type "dvr-1234.local.").And if you are using an address like that, it's a host reference that uses Bonjour -- and there are a few things that can be causing that not to be working properly...

[drshame]

Under 10.4, my Tivo Humax DVR is seen by my network after going thru the Tivo Network set-up routine and entering my network password into it. I believe I let the network issue my Tivo its' DHCP (?) address.
It works, and my Tivo apps, iTivi, Decode Manager and Toast Tivo to go all work and play together.

Under 10.5, no matter what I do, the network and the Tivo don't connect.
None of the apps work, since the network doesn't see the Tivo. I get a DHCP Server not found error message and a failure to connect message testing the connection on the Tivo side.

I perfom the same network setup on the Tivo as 10.4.11, but the Mac never sees it under 10.5.

Got to be a Mac 10.5 issue since it's almost bulet proof under 10.4.11.

[Yoav]

Under 10.5, no matter what I do, the network and the Tivo don't connect.
None of the apps work, since the network doesn't see the Tivo. I get a DHCP Server not found error message and a failure to connect message testing the connection on the Tivo side.



Ok just making sure I understand what you are saying:
On the tivo, you are selecting the network and using your local wireless network password. Then the tivo is failing to get a DHCP address and failing to use the network?

But this only happens when you have 10.5 on your mac? Not when you have 10.4?

On most home networks, what you have on your mac shouldn't matter for whether your TIVO gets an IP address from DHCP (dhcp is served by your wireless router). In fact, your mac can be OFF and your tivo should still be able to get an IP address via dhcp.

So, there is one exception to the above: If your mac is your dhcp server. This should not be the case (it takes a bunch of configuration on your mac to get that to happen... and it doesn't sound like you did that)...

I think something else is broken. I'm just not clear on what yet...
What is the IP address the tivo gets when it does work? what is the IP address of your mac?

[westside_guy]

Oh, I see. So is Yoav right - your Mac is what's connected to your broadband router, and your Mac is set to share its internet connection to other devices via its wireless?

Do you have other wireless devices that use this shared network? Are they problem-free with 10.5?

Assuming the above is all true... the first thing to do whenever you're diagnosing wireless problems is to first try it TEMPORARILY with no security on the network. No encryption, broadcasting the SSID, see if the Tivo sees the network and can connect to it.

[drshame]

So, after resetting everything up in 10.4.11, I switched start-up volumes to my 10.5.5 partition.

I expected no connectivity, as usual.

It worked!

No idea what changed, but after I reset everything in the old system and got them "talking" , 10.5.5 worked.

I continue to believe Mac Networking is a "black art"...no matter how easy it sounds.

I'll have to see if all my other network'd stuff still works like my Apple TV.

Hope it stays up for a while! Otherwise I may need to find AppleTalk Viagra to "keep it up"!

[drshame]

My Tivo basic Networking is solid UNTIL I try a transfer.
It starts fine, but now the "Lost Connection Bug" is back rearing it's ugly head.
It starts fine...runs for a whole, and losses the signal.
When I check Tivo settings, they all look fine.
When I do a network connect test, the Tivo can't conject because it can;t find the server.
When I do a Tivo restart, or disconnect the Tivo wireless antena, it restarts itself and finds the network fine.
Until I try a transfer again.
100% curable by a Tivo restart.
So far, 100 per cent failure on canceled transfers because of loss of wireless connection.
Could it be some "screensaver" conflict that when the monir goes into scareen saver...networking kicks off too?
But I've still got the transfer app running?

[bedelman]

Is the transfer coming from another TiVo or a computer? You mention the "Tivo wireless antenna" -- so can I assume you're using the TiVo Wireless Adapter? Take a look at the IP address of the TiVo both before and after (after the restart) it drops off the network and see if it's changed.

Have you tried setting a static IP address for the TiVo? It might also be good to know what you're using for a wireless router.

Thanks

[drshame]

Bob here's my set-up which hasn't changed except for the MacOSX version:

Comast High Speed thru their Motorola Surfboard.
Ethernet out to my Apple Airport Wireless.

Mac Pro / Apple Wireless Card

Humax/ Various Other Tivos/ wireless networked using the Tivo USB Antennas.

I'll have to triple check if the Mac is acting as a wireless server too.

The "lease" is set for 365 days, so it's not timing out, imho.

The DHCP Address (?) is NOT changing between episodes....10.0.1.193.

And again, the failure has been 100% fixable by a simple restart of the Tivo.

I still think it's some kind of "handshake" or "flow control" bug. The last time I messed around under 10.4.11 with a static IP, it held a while and then the same thing happened at about the same interval.

I wish Tivo and Apple would cooperate better.

[bedelman]

Do you know which Apple Airport router you're using? Airport Express, Airport Extreme, Airport Base Station (graphite/snow), etc. -- and then which model it might be (802.11b/g/n)? Or could you possibly be using Internet Sharing on your Mac Pro?

For the record, I have several TiVo boxes with several using the TiVo Wireless Adapter along with Apple's Airport router products -- currently two Airport Extremes (802.11n) and three Airport Expresses (802.11n).

My wireless network is secured using WPA2, the wireless network name is not hidden/closed, and I'm not using any access list on the Airport routers. My wireless network name is a single word as well -- and it's a unique name although some rogue neighbor decided to name their wireless network very similar to me! I'm EdelPort and they've done edelport...

If you possibly have any other device creating the network besides the Airport router -- it could explain what you're seeing.

[Yoav]

(edit: nothing to say!)

[bedelman]

Yoav -- I suspect that "Ethernet out to my Apple Airport Wireless." indicates that he has an Apple Airport router of some sort

[Yoav]

Yoav -- I suspect that "Ethernet out to my Apple Airport Wireless." indicates that he has an Apple Airport router of some sort

Oops. I'm seriously tired :) Thanks for catching that... I wonder if there's a 'delete post' .. bah. I somehow managed to read that as an apple wireless card (don't even know if that exists).

[westside_guy]

Anyways, I think I've ranted enough. Save yourself the headache and get a wireless router... All the cool kids are doing it...

It not only saves headaches - it is more secure as well.

[bedelman]

Oops. I'm seriously tired :) Thanks for catching that... I wonder if there's a 'delete post' .. bah. I somehow managed to read that as an apple wireless card (don't even know if that exists).

Oh -- they do exist. That's what you get inside a Mac Pro to allow it to connect to a wireless network for example.

[Yoav]

I assume you've gone through the usual "check if there's a firmware update" for the router?

Also, it might help to change the channel it's using (I think it's referred to as an SSID channel, but I don't have an airport to toy with). There might be a lot of interference on that channel... (it's a number from 2-11 on most routers).

[westside_guy]

And again, the failure has been 100% fixable by a simple restart of the Tivo.

Ah. Then if your network is truly as described, it's likely not a Mac issue.

I had a similar problem with my Series 2 Tivo when I used a Tivo wireless adapter - it would lose its ability to get to the network after a while. My other Series 2 Tivo had a wired network connection, and it never had a problem with its network connection.

Another thing to try when you're seeing this problem - short of power cycling the Tivo - is unplug the Tivo wireless adapter's USB plug from the Tivo, wait maybe 10 seconds, then re-plug it in.

I wish Tivo and Apple would cooperate better.

These are all open standards - it's doubtful Apple has much to do with any perceived lack of cooperation. I run zeroconf (what Apple calls "Bonjour") on x86 Linux without issues between the Linux box and my Macs.

[bedelman]

Another thing to try when you're seeing this problem - short of power cycling the Tivo - is unplug the Tivo wireless adapter's USB plug from the Tivo, wait maybe 10 seconds, then re-plug it in.
He mentions that hot-plugging the TiVo Wireless Adapter does fix it (up until it begins transferring again)
When I do a Tivo restart, or disconnect the Tivo wireless antena, it restarts itself and finds the network fine.
I'm not sure if unplugging the TiVo Wireless Adapter is triggering a restart or not though...

[westside_guy]

He mentions that hot-plugging the TiVo Wireless Adapter does fix it (up until it begins transferring again)

Oh, sorry, I missed that.

I'm not sure if unplugging the TiVo Wireless Adapter is triggering a restart or not though...

I would think unplugging/replugging it forces the particular module for the wireless adapter to reload.

[drshame]

Whenever I pull the plug in the wireless adapter, it forces my Tivo to restart the network connection.
After restarting itself, it re-handshakes with the network and keeps it up for a while.
I do not believe it's ever "lost" the connection on its' own without me trying a series of wireless transfers between my Tivo and my Mac using Tivo Decode Manager or ITivo.
I'll have to try my Tivo to Go Transfer utility more in Toast to see if it loses the network in those wireless transfers too.

Yes, I've moved the Tivo and the wireless antenna away from any other electronics. Yes, I've tried a static IP.

Yes..it still loses the connection on some transfers...and the signal strength at the Tivo is usually "Excellent".

I'm still thinking it's a connection/correction/flow control protocol conflict.

[Yoav]

(my complete utter guess is that you have a borked USB wireless adapter, and when it gets loaded, it drops the connection... but that's a guess with very little info to back it up)

Before you spend a lot of time debugging, make sure you have the latest firmware on your airport. Weird random wireless behavior can sometimes be fixed with that... Also, try changing the channel you're using in case a neighbor and you are fighting it out on that channel.

(doh just realized S2 tivos don't have wired ethernet)...

See if you can find a different USB wireless you can try out?

[bedelman]

...(doh just realized S2 tivos don't have wired ethernet)...

Actually, the Series 2 DT box does have built in Ethernet

Whenever I pull the plug in the wireless adapter, it forces my Tivo to restart the network connection.
After restarting itself, it re-handshakes with the network and keeps it up for a whole.
I do not believe it's ever "lost" the connection on its' own without me trying a series of wireless transfers between my Tivo and my Mac using Tivo Decode Manager or ITivo.
I'll have to try my Tivo to Go Transfer utility more in Toast to see if it loses the network in those wireless transfers too.

Yes, I've moved the Tivo and the wireless antenna away from any other electronics. Yes, I've tried a static IP.

Yes..it still loses the connection on some transfers...and the signal strength at the Tivo is usually "Excellent".

I'm still thinking it's a connection/correction/flow control protocol conflict.

Thanks for the information but does hot-plugging the adapter make the TiVo itself reboot? Or does it only re-initialize the network connection? This is important to know since if the TiVo is restarting, it could indicate that something with regard to the network management has become wedged -- and the TiVo is restarting/rebooting to clear the exception.

One other thing to try is to clear out the cached wireless network information from the TiVo. To do this, go back into the Wireless Network setup screens but do not choose the wireless network from the list. Instead use the "Enter Network Name" button and key in the name of the wireless network using the on-screen "checkerboard".

[drshame]

I've even switched Tivo Wireless antennas from other units in my house that I am not transferring content.

Same problem.

I will try new connection name the next time my signal drops.

Interestingly, the Tivo returns to the exact same network configuration as before the disconnect.
It even sets back to the same 10.0.193 IP addess and 100% of the time, it works after a restart or pull the plug on the wireless antenna.

Again, I'm betting on a flow control or other networking corruption issue.

As far as the failure mode goes, 10.5 seems to be as vulnerable as 10.4.

I am convinced it is a Tivo Wireless Network protocol issue.

Even after the Tivo losses the signal and "Can't find DHCP Servor" ...my wireless Apple TV is still going strong.

And again, a restart gets it all up and running again.

[bedelman]

But when you stated that unplugging and re-plugging the adapter also fixes this -- does that also cause the TiVo to reboot/restart? It makes a significant difference whether hot-plugging fixes the issue by itself -- or whether the TiVo itself needs to restart (or if the hot-plugging causes a restart to occur)

[drshame]

Bob, from my experience fighting this bug for quite a while now, I believe when the connection from the wireless antenna is physically broken, the Tivo cycles a restart to automatically reconnect.
On the other hand, when it "looses" the DHCP Server, it's just lost.
It must be a hidden networking routine when it senses a current draw/usb antenna activation at the port.

Maybe it's just an old Series 2 Bug on my Humax machine.

[bedelman]

Nope -- it is not supposed to trigger a restart of the TiVo box when the wireless adapter is unplugged. I've done this countless times. Sometimes when the network connection is wedged, it will trigger a restart -- which is the TiVo box's way of dealing with some sort of software crash or hang.

I suspect that your network connection has become wedged and the hot-plugging of the adapter makes something blow-up when it tries to re-initialize the connection.

Which wireless Airport router(s) are you using? Any other details would be helpful as well (network "closed"/invisible SSID name, Wireless Security, Access List enabled, etc.)

Did you by any chance try to clear out the wireless network information cached on the TiVo by keying in the network name as I mentioned earlier. This cached information also seems to survive a restart by the way.

- Bob

[Phrehdd]

My set up (presently)

Two Airport Extremes.

I connect the Tivo directly to one of the AE's as well as a PS3.
Then I let it talk wireless N to the other AE.
The other AE has all my computer equipment include NAS direct cable to the AE.

This works well and I can use Toast etc with no problems and is certainly faster than the wireless G offering from Tivo. The AE connected via cable to the Tivo hands out an IP address.

Of recent, we had power outages and when power returned -- within moments everything was up and running with zero issues.

I got that 2 AE set up really for the PS3. It works well for all except streaming very high rate media such as some M2TS - H.264 files (1080p stuff). The Tivo was added as an after thought and it proves and has not failed yet.

- Phrehdd