Netflix vs Amazon VoD

[yunlin12]

Since Netflix HD streaming came, I thought I ask something no one seems to have asked yet. How does Netflix compete with Amazon VOD on Tivo. I've thought about a few things that matter me:

1) HD: Netflix slightly ahead with a tiny HD collection, with Amazon probably coming soon.

2) Stream vs download: I think I still prefer download, in case my network speed is down due to Comcast broadband issue, download will still give me a good picture, while streaming will get degraded. I'd rather wait for a good picture. This will probably become more relevant when Amazon HD kicks in.

3) A-la-cart vs monthly fee: I just checked how much I spent on Amazon video last year, about 10 movie rentals and 6 TV show seasons. Most of the Tv seasons are catching up to shows that I recently discovered. At about $20/season, and $2-3 per movie rental, I'm spending $140-150/year on Amazon VOD. Netflix $8.99/mon plan would come under that, but if I only use for movie rental + 1-2 Tv seasons, then Amazon's a-la-cart would be a better deal. now that I have two Tivo going with HD, and Comcast having add almost all the HD channels I wanted, my TV is mostly coming from Tivo+Comcast. I think I have to give the edge to Amazon here.

4) rental period: not sure about this. Amazon rental can be kept 30 days before being viewed, then it's gone. Netflix is unlimited, I assume you can rewatch something whenever you want, so edge to Netflix.

5) Library content, I don't think either have an edge as of now. They are both inadequate IMO. As an example, both don't have Dexter season 3 for rental yet.

6) Device support: Netflix got the slight edge here since I also a XBox 360, but rarely used.

7) Need for PC: not a factor for me, I have a laptop in front of my TV, and prefer interface on the laptop, even with Universal swivel search.

Bottom line is that with minimum usage like I have, the deciding factor will come down to who has the best HD content, knowing Amazon is in the pipes, I'll have to wait to see what Amazon can do before I decide to sign up for a monthly plan with Netflix again. This is a good try for them though. What would totally sell me is a real IPTV solution. Whatever I pay for Netflix or Amazon now is peanuts compared to what I pay for cable. With that in mind, what'll end up being their biggest competition for my $ is probably going to be Hulu (or something like that).

[tivoknucklehead]

the main difference is netflix is free and Amazon is PPv if you are a netflix member already

[moyekj]

On quality I think Netflix has Amazon beat. With Netflix SD streams you are getting 480p resolution and many selections are anamorphic widescreen compared to Amazon at 480i and no widescreen.

That being said I think the download model is better in that it provides the usual smooth trickplay functions we are used to on the Tivo and accommodates lower bandwidth connections.

For my case I subscribe to Netflix regardless of Tivo/Netflix relationship so to me it's a net bonus to have Netflix on Tivo without having to pay per view for the instant titles. I would like to see the list of titles available for streaming expand significantly but for now I've got plenty to watch, including the entire set of Star Trek season 1 episodes in HD.

[bkdtv]

Netflix's SD quality is clearly superior to Amazon's if your Internet connection can sustain their 2.2 Mbps stream. Quality on Amazon seems more comparable to the Netflix 1.0 Mbps stream.

It remains to be seen if, or when, Amazon will ever offer MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1 versions of their streams. IMO, Amazon simply cannot compete with Netflix on quality when it limits itself to low-bitrate MPEG-2 streams, which is used to maintain backward compatibility with older Series2 hardware.

[rainwater]

I have to wait over an hour before I can start watching a Unbox movie. Netflix takes about 5 seconds. So I can't say I prefer downloading. Plus, for what little content they have on Netflix, you at least don't have the ridiculous 24 hour watch window.

[cgould]

I have to wait over an hour before I can start watching a Unbox movie. Netflix takes about 5 seconds. So I can't say I prefer downloading. Plus, for what little content they have on Netflix, you at least don't have the ridiculous 24 hour watch window.

EXACTLY.
I canNOT stand the ridiculous 24hour watching window (from the content providers).. this is often impossible for parents trying to watch a movie late at night (over 2 nights) after kids go to bed. I refuse Amazon (non-widescreen etc also notwithstanding) for this.

Netflix lets you resume/play whenever.
Plus, it's free on top of existing account :)

[Stephen Tu]

It's no contest if you are a movie fan. You are only comparing things if you watch < 1 movie per month and not taking advantage of the DVD/BD by mail. Amazon is OK for a casual 10-movie per year renter but for those of us watching 50, 100+ it's not close. And Netflix users get to rely on the physical media until streaming/downloads can catch up in terms of audio quality & selection.

[mikeyts]

Amazon obviously beats Netflix on selection (vis-a-vis recent release films, though it beats them in other areas, like indie, documentary and foreign films), but falls short everywhere else. They've got some interesting deals going on with some of the studios. If you miss recording an episode of House, there are a few different places where you can buy downloads and you can watch it free (with unskippable ad breaks) on Hulu; only on Unbox can you watch it the next day. All other sources have an 8-day waiting period :rolleyes:.

[kosherbacon]

Bottom line is that with minimum usage like I have, the deciding factor will come down to who has the best HD content, knowing Amazon is in the pipes, I'll have to wait to see what Amazon can do before I decide to sign up for a monthly plan with Netflix again. This is a good try for them though. What would totally sell me is a real IPTV solution. Whatever I pay for Netflix or Amazon now is peanuts compared to what I pay for cable. With that in mind, what'll end up being their biggest competition for my $ is probably going to be Hulu (or something like that).

Great review Yunlin. I haven't tried the Netflix service yet (I will as soon as I get home), but the price of free is the deciding factor for me. Of course, I was already paying for my Netflix subscription and my home broadband connection supports the highest quality from Netflix, so my choice was easy.

The selections from both are underwhelming to me, but that will change in the coming years. Streaming HD is here! Hazzah!

[hearncl]

Do either the Netflix or Amazon movies support closed captioning?

[moyekj]

Do either the Netflix or Amazon movies support closed captioning? Nope. Netflix doesn't for sure. Last I checked Amazon didn't either. But at least with Netflix you have the option of getting a DVD/Blu Ray via snail mail with full support for captions.

[ZeoTiVo]

unlimited streaming, DVDs or Blu-rays delivered to my door, take as along as I want to watch whatever. HD streaming and Blu-Ray rentals.

I have not touched UNBOX since it first came out and had the 99cent rentals.

Streaming is the easy license of the future as the studios don't have all those restrictions on streaming. Been a netflix memeber for a long time and I plan to continue. I can not recall the last time a DVD released that i wanted that I could not rent via netflix. I see no new release issues save for streaming is not of entire catalog yet. once they stream new DVDs then we are talking total solution.

I see no contest myself

[Amnesia]

1) HD: Netflix slightly ahead with a tiny HD collection, with Amazon probably coming soon.How can you say Netflix is "slightly" ahead regarding HD?

Netflix has HD. Amazon currently has none. Some to none. To me, that puts Netflix infinitely ahead in the HD category and significantly ahead in general.

The only VoD I can imagine watching in SD are current TV shows or, I suppose, movies that aren't available on DVD.

For everything else, I'd much rather wait for the DVD and I can at least watch it upscaled...

[rainwater]

The only VoD I can imagine watching in SD are current TV shows or, I suppose, movies that aren't available on DVD.


One good thing about Netflix is current TV seasons that they carry are often in HD. Even though it isn't exactly broadcast HD quality, for TV shows it is still very good.

[yunlin12]

How can you say Netflix is "slightly" ahead regarding HD?

Netflix has HD. Amazon currently has none. Some to none. To me, that puts Netflix infinitely ahead in the HD category and significantly ahead in general.

The only VoD I can imagine watching in SD are current TV shows or, I suppose, movies that aren't available on DVD.

For everything else, I'd much rather wait for the DVD and I can at least watch it upscaled...

Sorry this is a personal take from my own perspective. Having 300 movies in HD for Netflix may mathematically be an infinite advantage for Netflix, but it doesn't really do much for me. Well over 90% of my TV viewing from cable is in HD. Something like 30-50% of my video library (physical discs) are HD. In that sense, both Netflix and Amazon are light years away from being a real HD content player in my view.

Edit: just to be clear, I'm an ex-netflix user who is trying to evaluate the new netflix feature to see if there is value for me to come back. my evaluation is how valuable each service is to me, and not simply how good it is, I use this formula (roughly):

how good the service is * how much I use it = overall value to me.

hence the lack of value for Netflix HD, or Amazon search directly from tivo, etc. Both are nice features, but if i don't have use for it for any reason, then it has no value for me.

[yunlin12]

One good thing about Netflix is current TV seasons that they carry are often in HD. Even though it isn't exactly broadcast HD quality, for TV shows it is still very good.

thanks, good thing to know if I ever need to catch up on a TV episode.

[Stephen Tu]

In that sense, both Netflix and Amazon are light years away from being a real HD content player in my view

You are assigning 0 value to the Netflix snail mail service, which makes no sense. Netflix has basically the entire catalog of major Blu-ray discs available to rent, which means they are a real HD content player *now*. They are basically my sole source of HD movie content, as the stuff available through other methods fails me in one or more of the following ways, so I hardly use them at all:
- cost : $6 rentals (xbox/Comcast VOD)
- edited for content/non OAR/otherwise butchered/+ ads (commercial TV)
- lack of selection, old movies (premium movie channels)

The streaming stuff is just a bonus. If you just rent 3 Blu-rays per month you are already ahead of Amazon without using the streaming at all!

[caryrae73]

How long would it take to download an HD movie if Amazon gets HD movies? I have a 3 mbps speed.

[lacsap]

first movie - sound cut out after 30 seconds - maybe a bad transfer

second movie - it keeps stopping after an hour and finally I can not even get to VOD subchoices on tivo.

Amazon unbox worked ever time from day one ... not netflix.

[TexasGrillChef]

Several things I think anyone should look at FIRST when choosing Netflix or Amazon.

1. HOW many movies per month do you watch & How many of those movies do you want in DVD/Blu-ray?

2. Do you allready have a Netflix account anyways? If you allready have a Netflix account it's a no brainer.

In regards to item #1. If your rent on average 3-5 movies/discs per month or less. Amazon might just be cheaper for you.

Who is better? Amazon or Netflix? Honestly?
IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR MOVIE VIEWING HABITS, NEEDS & VALUES.

Whats best for you may NOT be best for me.

I am just glad WE have the OPTION!


TGC

[nrc]

yunlin12, I'm in the same place. I just don't watch enough to make NetFlix a good value. I've spent less than $50 on video rentals of all kinds over the last year - most of that on Amazon.

I'm happy that the NetFlix users have a new feature to enjoy on their TiVos. I'm just disappointed that they didn't integrate it with Swivel Search so I could see what I'm missing without going to my computer and making a separate search.

[Turtleboy]

I just hate the studio imposed Amazon rental terms (which are the same on Apple TV). The expiration within 24 hours after you start watching is a deal killer for me.

[cgould]

thanks, good thing to know if I ever need to catch up on a TV episode.

Yup, very handy, and beats watching on Hulu etc on your PC...

They have the current seasons of CBS main shows online:
CSI, CSI:miami/NY, Numb3rs, NCIS, etc
and, these are in "HD" !
There is also Office, 30 Rock , etc...
tons of other TV not in HD. PBS, other networks etc... check the "television" genres.

My dad just did this exact same catch-up on some episodes he missed earlier, for FREE, on his new TivoHD w/ netflix today (since his cableco crappy DVR failed to record them!) He's happy!

Don't know how soon the new eps show up, but last week's are there...

[mikeyts]

How long would it take to download an HD movie if Amazon gets HD movies? I have a 3 mbps speed.It depends upon what rate they choose for encoding. A steady 3 Mbps translates into 1.35 GB/hour. Microsoft has been using about 7.2 Mbps VC-1 encodings for HD selections in the Xbox Live Video Store, resulting in 6.5 GB files for two hour films, which'd take 4 hours, 49 minutes over a steady 3 Mbps connection. VUDU encodes their normal quality HD as VBR H.264/AVC averaging 4 Mbps (for, supposedly, 1080p24, which is truly remarkable), which'd result in 3.6 GB for a two hour movie. That'd take about 2 hours 40 minutes to download on a sustained 3 Mbps connection. VUDU has special high quality HD ("HDX", which is supposedly comparable to Blu-ray); that's encoded at an average of 10 Mbps--this would be 9 GB for a two hour movie, requiring a minimum of 6 hours, 40 minutes to download with your service.

(The VUDU information comes from posts by VUDUPatrick (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14828236#post14828236)--Patrick Ellis, Senior Product Manager at VUDU).

[mikeyts]

Don't know how soon the new eps show up, but last week's are there...They show up the next day after the night that they air.

For most of the season, CSI: Miami has overlapped two other shows that were more important to me, so I dropped it. I used Netflix WI to watch most of the episodes :). When I first started using Watch Instantly last year on my PC (which I view on the same panel as my TiVo is connected to), I rewatched seasons of a couple of my favorite shows. (It was called "Watch Now" then).

[bferrell]

I disagree, I have Turbo Road Runner, and my unbox movies look much better on both my HD/S3 sets than the Netflix, and I don't like the monthly fee, nor the twitchy fast-forward/rewind on the streaming vids... I'll stick with Unbox.

[Amnesia]

(...) my unbox movies look much better on both my HD/S3 sets than the Netflix (...) I'll stick with Unbox.Your SD pillarboxed (or windowboxed) Amazon Unbox movies look better than the HD Netflix movies?

[ahmed]

I have 4 tivos and one netflix account, would I be able to use my netflix account with all 4 tivos? Sorry if not very related to the thread.

[MickeS]

As for library content, I'd say Amazon easily beats Netflix's streaming offers right now. That's probably the only advantage of Amazon I can think of though, having used both.

[MickeS]

I just hate the studio imposed Amazon rental terms (which are the same on Apple TV). The expiration within 24 hours after you start watching is a deal killer for me.

Yeah, that's a biggie. They should either lower prices and auto-extend rentals (Redbox for example, costs $1/day, and you get it until 9PM the next night, but even if you miss the deadline the next night, that's just another $1), or make the period at least 36 hours. As it is now, renting takes a little too much planning.

[mikeyts]

I have 4 tivos and one netflix account, would I be able to use my netflix account with all 4 tivos? Sorry if not very related to the thread.Yes, as long as they're all TiVo Series3, HD or HD XL models. Netflix allows up to 4 streaming devices registered on an account.

[TexasGrillChef]

I have 4 tivos and one netflix account, would I be able to use my netflix account with all 4 tivos? Sorry if not very related to the thread.

Yes. I have the followng

2 TiVo's
1 Xbox 360
1 Samsung BD-P 2550 Netflix enabled Blu-ray player

TGC

[dolcevita]

Several things I think anyone should look at FIRST when choosing Netflix or Amazon.

1. HOW many movies per month do you watch & How many of those movies do you want in DVD/Blu-ray?

2. Do you allready have a Netflix account anyways? If you allready have a Netflix account it's a no brainer.

In regards to item #1. If your rent on average 3-5 movies/discs per month or less. Amazon might just be cheaper for you.

Who is better? Amazon or Netflix? Honestly?
IT ALL DEPENDS ON YOUR MOVIE VIEWING HABITS, NEEDS & VALUES.

Whats best for you may NOT be best for me.

I am just glad WE have the OPTION!


TGC

I agree with TGC and am glad we have the choice. I was an early subscriber to Netflix, but dropped the service once Amazon UnBox came out.

Here's why - I travel on business every week. Netflix was great, because I could throw a DVD or 2 in my briefcase and always have something to watch on the plane. But I seldom watched more than 1 or 2 movies a month. After Amazon came out with Unbox, I could download a movie the night before a trip...or on the weekend when Amazon would have those cheap rental deals.

Right now, Netflix isn't an option for this usage because my new laptop doesn't have a DVD drive and the streaming service won't do any good on a plane..

But... I'm still interested in Netflix streaming primarily for tv shows. My Tivo HD using OTA has me pretty close to cutting comcast back to basic cable. That cost savings would offset the cost of the Netflix subscription.

So I'll continue to read the early reports and may have to sign up for a Netflix trial over the holidays.

[kosherbacon]

is there a list anywhere of the titles that Netflix has available in HD? I have heard the number 300 bounced around and some isolated named (30 Rock, Heroes) shows, but is there anywhere where the current (and presumably updated) list of HD content available for Netflix streaming? I scoured the Netflix site and found zilch. I have an email in to them, I will let you know if I get a response.

[kosherbacon]

is there a list anywhere of the titles that Netflix has available in HD? I have heard the number 300 bounced around and some isolated named (30 Rock, Heroes) shows, but is there anywhere where the current (and presumably updated) list of HD content available for Netflix streaming? I scoured the Netflix site and found zilch. I have an email in to them, I will let you know if I get a response.

Just answered my own question. The Netflix Blog (http://blog.netflix.com/2008/12/lg-and-samsung-blu-ray-players-stream.html) has a link that works only if you have streaming enabled (http://www.netflix.com/WiHD).

[mikeyts]

Just answered my own question. The Netflix Blog (http://blog.netflix.com/2008/12/lg-and-samsung-blu-ray-players-stream.html) has a link that works only if you have streaming enabled (http://www.netflix.com/WiHD).You might want to use http://www.netflix.com/WiHD?ftr=false --by default, it filters out rated and seen titles. Also note that the list is apparently incomplete, since they're supposed to have over 300 titles and that list contains only 164.

[johnf@home]

unlimited streaming, DVDs or Blu-rays delivered to my door, take as along as I want to watch whatever. HD streaming and Blu-Ray rentals.

I have not touched UNBOX since it first came out and had the 99cent rentals.
I see no contest myself

We got Netflix initially for the catalog of old TV shows - things that weren't worth enough to us to make buying the DVD sets worthwhile, but that we wouldn't mind watching again. That, plus being able to watch when *we* want (way before VOD was available in our neighbourhood), no late fees, etc., made it worthwhile to us. A coupe of years later we reviewed our watching habits and decided to drop the premium movie channels from our TV lineup. That more than paid for the Netflix account, with enough left over to buy our own copies of things we decided we really liked (especially if we could buy cheap used copies from Netflix, which we did for some titles.)

I've never used UNBOX, although aparently I now have a free download of "The Dark Night" if I can't wait until tomorrow when the Blu-Ray gets here (I'm too cheap to pay for overnight shipping) - that was part of an Amazon special Batman Begins/The Dark Night Blu-Ray promotion.

[ZeoTiVo]

that was part of an Amazon special Batman Begins/The Dark Night Blu-Ray promotion.
I should have stated that I rarely buy DVDs/Blu-ray so that drives my desire to rent for one monthly fee greatly.

[Arduinna]

The main issue for me is that I already had a 4 at a time and unlimited streaming membership with Netflix so being able to watch instantly on the tv is just a bonus. Whereas Amazon I have to pay for everything I watch individually. Which is why I've only watched 1 thing and it was part of the free promotion.