should I buy a TiVo HD XL or TiVo HD & upgrade?

[chown]

I've decided to give the horrible Verizon-provided DVR the boot and get a TiVo (maybe even 2). I'm a little torn between the option of buying the XL model and buying the cheaper model to upgrade.

I don't really see a big difference between the 2 and am not at all shy about cracking open the case to swap out the HD. Am I missing something?

[RonDawg]

These are the features of the XL that can be added to a TiVoHD:

1 TB or larger hard drive (will void warranty however)
Glo Remote
HDMI cable

These are the features that cannot be added to the TiVoHD:

THX certification
The ability to keep the factory warranty while having at least 1TB of storage.

It all depends largely if THX and the warranty are important to you.

[socrplyr]

Not really, but you will have to copy the software to the new drive. So that means hooking it up to a computer. It does save a bunch of money doing it that way, but also voids warranties and has a risk of failure. However, another plus is that you don't have to do it right away so you can play with the Tivo first to make sure you like it before you do it. If you care about THX certification the XL is the only way there, but I haven't seen anything that really suggests there is anything different between the versions, or at least anything incredibly noticeable.
Josh

[darksurtur]

Not really, but you will have to copy the software to the new drive. So that means hooking it up to a computer. It does save a bunch of money doing it that way, but also voids warranties and has a risk of failure. However, another plus is that you don't have to do it right away so you can play with the Tivo first to make sure you like it before you do it. If you care about THX certification the XL is the only way there, but I haven't seen anything that really suggests there is anything different between the versions, or at least anything incredibly noticeable.
Josh

THX is just a certification. And from what I gather, rather expensive to get. It's likely that the HD and HDXL have the same exact components, and TiVO just decided not to certify the HD to keep costs down (the HDXL being the premium model, and therefore a better bet to spend money certifying).

[drey]

These are the features of the XL that can be added to a TiVoHD:

1 TB or larger hard drive (will void warranty however)
Glo Remote
HDMI cable

These are the features that cannot be added to the TiVoHD:

THX certification
The ability to keep the factory warranty while having at least 1TB of storage.

It all depends largely if THX and the warranty are important to you.

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service.

If you can live without THX certification, you'll be able to save about $150-200 by buying TiVo HD and upgrading the drive.

[zablock]

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service.

there's no seal or label you have to break to open up the tivo?

[mazman]

there's no seal or label you have to break to open up the tivo?

Nope

[lew]

FROM TIVO'S WEBSITE Please note that removing the cover of the DVR for any reason voids the warranty. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?

Upgrading the HD voids the warranty. Anyone not willing to accept that risk shouldn't upgrade their unit. Posters shouldn't be providing incorrect information.

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service.

If you can live without THX certification, you'll be able to save about $150-200 by buying TiVo HD and upgrading the drive.

there's no seal or label you have to break to open up the tivo?



Nope

It's been posted that the logs that are U/L during the phone call tells tivo the drive was upgraded. At least one poster had a warranty issue.

Replacing the internal drive does void the warranty, the question is if tivo will care if you replace the original drive prior to sending your unit in for service.

Keep in mind the most common problem with tivo is hard drive failure. Many drives come with a 3 year warranty but the drive in a stock tivo is covered by the regular tivo warranty 90 days parts and labor and 1 year parts only.

[jlib]

The TiVo warranty is of minimal value since almost all failures are with the hard drive. TiVo is not going to send you a new drive to replace a failed one but rather they send you a complete refurbished unit, at which point you will have to have the cable cards re-paired which is not too bad if your cable company lets you call in the new info yourself.

I would much rather have an original hard drive as a backup to a manully upgraded one that could be reinstalled as a stop gap while one gets a new replacement drive via drive manufacturers warranty or otherwise.

Most people I know with TiVos have extensive systems and use multifunction remotes so the glow remote is of little value, either. I guess it depends on how long you want to be without your TiVo in case of hard drive failure.

[RonDawg]

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service.

Some folks have posted here that TiVo knows you upgraded the drive when your unit calls the server for its guide data.

One person who posted here supposedly found that out when he tried to do exactly as you did, and TiVo knew about it anyway and did not honor the warranty.

[RonDawg]

The TiVo warranty is of minimal value since almost all failures are with the hard drive.

While the TiVo warranty itself isn't all that great, and while most TiVo failures are hard drive related, there still is the chance that a new TiVo can fail for some other reason.

I personally would at least wait for the 90 day full warranty (parts and labor) to expire before doing anything that would void it. After that, it would be a minimum $50 labor charge anyway, so it might be worth the risk at that time.

[drey]

In my opinion the benefits of upgrading the drive are far greater than virtually useless warranty, which in 99.9% of cases cannot be verified by TiVo.

To give you an example, on my S3 the power supply recently went dead. I called TiVo and they offered to service the unit (even if I had the drive upgraded!). Regardless, they wanted me to ship the unit ($20) plus $50 labor charge. That's the total of $70.

So what was the solution? A quick search on eBay provided me with $30 power supply which took me 1-minute to replace. So was the "warranty" worth it with TiVo? Not a dime.

Take the above as you think is appropriate, but as I mentioned above, upgrading the drive is far more beneficial than worrying about a warranty which is not that great anyway. Except for the poster above, I have never heard about anyone being denied a warranty because their drive "was upgraded" at some point.

[lew]

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service.



In my opinion the benefits of upgrading the drive are far greater than virtually useless warranty, which in 99.9% of cases cannot be verified by TiVo. but as I mentioned above, upgrading the drive is far more beneficial than worrying about a warranty which is not that great anyway. Except for the poster above, I have never heard about anyone being denied a warranty because their drive "was upgraded" at some point.

I agree the warranty, particularly after 90 days, is of limited value but that's not what you mentioned above you claimed adding a new drive shouldn't void the warranty but that is directly contradicted by tivo.

People deserve to have correct information prior to voiding their warranty.

[drey]

I agree the warranty, particularly after 90 days, is of limited value but that's not what you mentioned above you claimed adding a new drive shouldn't void the warranty but that is directly contradicted by tivo.

People deserve to have correct information prior to voiding their warranty.

I was incorrect about that. Although I did say "technically" assuming the old drive goes back in the box.

By the way, just of curiosity, if I remove the cover but dont' replace the drive, will that void the warranty? How will TiVo know? :)

[RonDawg]

People deserve to have correct information prior to voiding their warranty.

+1

[RonDawg]

By the way, just of curiosity, if I remove the cover but dont' replace the drive, will that void the warranty? How will TiVo know? :)

Older TiVo units actually had a seal on them that says "Void if removed or tampered."

The new ones don't, but people usually don't go around opening their TiVo's except to replace the hard drive or power supply.

[ciper]

Adding a new drive technically shouldn't void a warranty as long as you put the old drive back before sending the unit for service

Don't forget that the logs sent with the daily call show the disk space... Tivo does know even if you put the old drive back in.

[Leland Ray]

Can't you just add an external hard drive unit to expand your space. I did that with a charter Moxi unit and it just saw the new drive as part of it's recording space. The only draw back was if you removed it you lost everything. Although the "my DVD expander" is 500GB @ $200, the XL comes with 1TB of space plus a back lit remote that sell for $50 and an HDMI cable.

So for $300 it seems like you get your moneys worth with the XL Unless you can put a 1TB internal drive in the lesser unit at a lower expense.

[RonDawg]

Can't you just add an external hard drive unit to expand your space. I did that with a charter Moxi unit and it just saw the new drive as part of it's recording space. The only draw back was if you removed it you lost everything. Although the "my DVD expander" is 500GB @ $200, the XL comes with 1TB of space plus a back lit remote that sell for $50 and an HDMI cable.

So for $300 it seems like you get your moneys worth with the XL Unless you can put a 1TB internal drive in the lesser unit at a lower expense.

You can, but as you mention it only adds 500 GB to the internal 160 GB of the TiVoHD.

Some folks have also had issues with using an external drive, particularly when the 9.4 software was widely deployed.

1 TB drives can be widely had for around $100 now, such as the Samsung SpinPoint and the WD "Green" Drive. DVR-specific drives such as the Seagate DB35 aren't much more. So as long as you don't add the Glo Remote, and do your own upgrade (as opposed to buying a pre-formatted drive from a vendor) it is possible to get a significant cost savings by DIY.

[bobdole369]

Hate to bring up such an old thread, but I took exception to this post:

FROM TIVO'S WEBSITE Please note that removing the cover of the DVR for any reason voids the warranty. IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH?

Upgrading the HD voids the warranty. Anyone not willing to accept that risk shouldn't upgrade their unit. Posters shouldn't be providing incorrect information.

From a lawyers viewpoint - opening the cover on ANYTHING doesn't void anything at all. If/when the case gets to court the issue would be brought up and the two sides will argue a few points.

In the end what matters is whether or not the additional components added actually contributed to the demise of the unit - and would have to be proven (example - adding a magnetic device directly on top of the hard drive). Or that the actual "opening of the case" - caused the failure - again that would have to be proven. (example - user opened the case - left it open and his child poured kool aid on the circuit).

Simply opening the case and then closing it doesn't end the warranty. Opening the case and adding components doesn't end the warranty unless those components broke the original components.

Now the drones at support will tell you that and log stuff in their database and give you trouble, but if it happens your recourse is to sue, and you'll win. Most will get proper service with persistence and climbing the corporate ladder.

Whether you want to go through all that is up to you, but that Tivo puts that statement on the website is a scare tactic and has no teeth.

[Dssturbo1]

get the Tivo HD. Sears has been having recurring specials on them at $199. Throw in a 1Gb drive for ~$80-110 and enjoy.

or hopefully Tivo and WD will get their corporate communications together and officially release/support the new 1TB My DVR ~$200.

either way get the Tivo HD and save the bucks on the overpriced XL.

[jeffw_00]

1) remember you can double your warranty with your credit card (getting reimbursed for the $50 (or $199) Tivo will charge for a refurbished unit.

2) Get the TivoHD and an external expander from newegg. No warranty issues and still cheaper....
/j

[netringer]

get the Tivo HD. Sears has been having recurring specials on them at $199. ...

I little birdie just told me that loyal current subscribers have buddies at a company called TiVo that may have a deal like that.

[drey]

I little birdie just told me that loyal current subscribers have buddies at a company called TiVo that may have a deal like that.

Is that for a new or refurbished unit?

[bkdtv]

Is that for a new or refurbished unit?For the past month or so, TiVo has offered new TivoHDs for $199 to customers with Series2 DVRs that were looking to upgrade.

[toddvj]

Definitely get the Tivo HD and upgrade. You will save at least $200 doing it that way.

[phantomsax]

I am in the same boat as the original poster. We have had a Humax Series2 with DVD burner for years and loved it, and I was ready to throw the Motorola HD DVR from Time Warner through the wall after we got our 3rd unit in less than a year. I decided to get the TivoHD, and after calling Tivo directly to inquire about service discounts for 2 boxes, etc., they price matched below Amazon for $239.99 plus gave me a discount on our existing plan for the Series2. I wish I had seen this thread first and I would have tried for $199 for a new box.

My plan from the beginning was to add an external 1TB drive and I bought an Antec MX-1 and WD WD10EVCS instead of the overpriced 1TB My DVR Expander, and since I own a computer company and happen to have a distributor account I get things at cost (case, drive, and the better SIIG eSATA cable cost me less than $130 total). Unfortunately before buying it I didn't realize what a chore it was going to be to get the drive to work.

So now I am debating if I should just buy the 1TB My DVR and get hosed, or crack the box open on a 1 week old Tivo and put the 1TB internally. The possibility of the power going out is slim since both the Tivo and external HD are connected to a 2200VA UPS, but it is still possible should the drive get unplugged or something else happen. But I am also not worried about warranty issues if the box doesn't have any stickers or seals. Any comments?

IMHO if you can get the HD XL cheap enough for your budget, I say go for it. 20 Hours is definitely not enough recording time. If you don't mind voiding the warranty and cracking the box, than go for the cheaper HD and upgrade it.

[Adam1115]

Buy the XL, that way if you want to upgrade again down the road you still can.

Buying the HD and upgrading you'll have to rip your TiVo apart again vs. just plugging in a esata drive.

[lrhorer]

My plan from the beginning was to add an external 1TB drive and I bought an Antec MX-1 and WD WD10EVCS instead of the overpriced 1TB My DVR Expander, and since I own a computer company and happen to have a distributor account I get things at cost (case, drive, and the better SIIG eSATA cable cost me less than $130 total). Unfortunately before buying it I didn't realize what a chore it was going to be to get the drive to work.
"Chore"? For someone who owns a computer company? Manually marrying an external drive to an internal drive is trivial, and takes less than a minute, not including boot times for the respective devices, of course. Even copying the internal drive to a larger internal drive is quite easy. It takes quite a bit longer, but one only need start the process and walk away.

BTW, what I did on my TiVo HD was to swap the two SATA cables inside the case, so that the primary drive sits external to the DVR and the secondary drive (if any) sits inside the DVR. Currently I am running the THD with no internal drive whatsoever. This makes maintaining the drive a snap. I can modify, replace, or upgrade the primary drive without ever opening the TiVo again, and it's a lot easier to unplug and move around the Antec MX-1 tnan the TiVo: it's much smaller, lighter, and only has two cables. The TiVo is much larger and bulkier (harder to perch atop a PC) and has 10 separate cables attached. What's more, the eSATA port on the MX-1 plugs directly into the back of my PC, so I don't have to open the PC, either.

So now I am debating if I should just buy the 1TB My DVR and get hosed, or crack the box open on a 1 week old Tivo and put the 1TB internally.
That's a personal decision, whihc depends on what is important to you and how much of a chance you are willing to take on not experiencing trouble. I had no qualms doing it, but OTOH, my first S3 TiVo did have its Ethernet port die just prior to the warranty running out.

But I am also not worried about warranty issues if the box doesn't have any stickers or seals. Any comments?
Lots of people, including me, have done it. Indeed, I frist replaced the 160G drive in my THD with a 320G (why is a long story) and then upgraded again to 500G. OTOH, my first S3 still has a stock 250G drive augmented by a 750G external drive, and my second S3 was purchased from Weaknees as a 1T unit and augmented with an additional 1T drive.

[daveak]

So then would it be possible to run my Series 3 with no internal (provided I set the external as the only drive) and swap drives periodically as I fill them up or want to watch different programming?

[phantomsax]

Irhorer, thanks for the feedback. I was just hoping I could get the extra space I need without cracking the case and just plugging and playing. You are right, it is no big deal, but after working on computers all day, I am one of those who likes to come home and not see a computer at all. The only one I have other than my work laptop is the one connected to my TV that I use once a month so I can watch Hulu on my TV.

I am actually exceptionally spoiled (and apparently lazy) because my laptop has an eSATA port on it so I can just bring the laptop to the DVR instead of the DVR to the laptop, and yet I still don't want to do be bothered.

With having the primary drive externally, don't you worry about the external drive losing power and you losing all your shows, or does it just lock up the Tivo and then you have reboot it should the power or data connection drop on the drive and not the Tivo itself?

BTW, just a side rant, but would it have frickin' killed the designers and engineers to put a front display on the new Tivo HD's? I now have to go out and buy a clock to set ON TOP of the Tivo so my girlfriend can know what time it is (hey, a $10 digital clock will stop the complaining).