Ethernet connected TIVO disappears from NPL on other TIVOs

[wtherrell]

I apologize in advance for starting a new thread, but::. I think I saw this on one of the forums but can't find anything using search.
I have 3 Tivos connected to my router, which is connected to cable modem. One Tivo is connected to router via ethernet and the other two wireless. In addition to the frequent wireless Tivo connection dropouts(another problem to address) I am having the following problem.
After new IP address via DHCP the now playing list of the wireless tivo shows the ethernet Tivo in the list. After one or two accesses of the npl the ethernet TIVO disappears from the list. The ethernet connected PC and the pytivo lists continue to appear, as well as the other wireless tivo. Transfers to a wireless tivo from the ethernet tivo continue with no problem. Just can no longer see the ethernet tivo on the npl. Sometimes, renewing the IP through network settings and backing out will cause the ethernet tivo to show up for one or two accesses of the npl but then it goes away again.

What causes this? Is there any known fix for it? It's driving me nuttier than I already am!

Ethernet tivo = THD
wireless tivo 1 = series 2 Pioneer 57-H
wireless tivo 2 = Tivo branded series 2

[wtherrell]

Really? No help at all?

[greg_burns]

Don't know what is the root problem is, but have you considered using static IP addresses for your Tivos?

The best place (IMO) to do that is not on the Tivo itself, but in your router. Assign specific IP addresses to each Tivo's network adapter's MAC addresses. Make sure your specific ones are outside the scope of your DHCP addresses.

[wtherrell]

Don't know what is the root problem is, but have you considered using static IP addresses for your Tivos?

The best place (IMO) to do that is not on the Tivo itself, but in your router. Assign specific IP addresses to each Tivo's network adapter's MAC addresses. Make sure your specific ones are outside the scope of your DHCP addresses.

Thanks, Greg. I'll try giving everything static addresses and see if it gets the the wired Tivo to stay in the NPL like the Wireless ones do. Do I have to do this in both the router and its repeater? Or just the router itself?

[greg_burns]

I would assume just the router is acting as your DHCP server, so just there.

What router do you have? Not all makes/models have the ability to set static IPs unfortunately. My current late model Linksys does not. I've had 3rd party firmware installed on other Linksys's that would allow it though (like DD-WRT (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP)).

[wtherrell]

I would assume just the router is acting as your DHCP server, so just there.

What router do you have? Not all makes/models have the ability to set static IPs unfortunately. My current late model Linksys does not. I've had 3rd party firmware installed on other Linksys's that would allow it though (like DD-WRT (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Static_DHCP)).
Belkin F5D8236-4 N router set on "g". I have the router and a Belkin repeater. I can log on to either one. I could not see any option to assign addresses to specific Mac addresses but will keep looking. When I check the wired Tivo it has received an IP through DHCP and continues to access the internet program guide. Also continues to transfer previously requested shows to the wireless Tivo so I know the connection isn't lost. Just does not show up in the NPL except for first one or two accesses of the NPL. Still shows the PC with pyTivo that is wired into another port on the router. I think I will plug the tivo into the other port and the PC into the port where the Tivo was.

Edit: Just looked at the help file on the router. It says that if I turn off the DHCP server I will need to set an IP address ineach computer on the network. So it looks like I can't assign each computer an address from the router.

[greg_burns]

Doesn't appear that your router is compatible to be flashed with DD-WRT either.

[wtherrell]

Tried turning off DHCP server and entering static IP's from each TIVO. A real PITA. Exactly the same thing happens. The THD shows up for a few minutes and then disappears. I was just staring at the NPL and saw the THD disappear from the NPL. Just winked out.

I think it's the THD that is the problem and there is a little glitch in the software that causes the Beacon to fail somehow on its next pass.

Come, on, TIVO--jump in here.

[wtherrell]

Tried turning off DHCP server and entering static IP's from each TIVO. A real PITA. Exactly the same thing happens. The THD shows up for a few minutes and then disappears. I was just staring at the NPL and saw the THD disappear from the NPL. Just winked out.

I think it's the THD that is the problem and there is a little glitch in the software that causes the Beacon to fail somehow on its next pass.

Come, on, TIVO--jump in here.
OK, just got fall service update v 11 on the THD (12-08-08) and so far the THD remains showing in the other NPL's. Looks as if it was really Tivo software problem after all. I just hope the fix sticks this time.

[infin8007]

How do I get the fall service update?

I have this exact same problem.

[greg_burns]

How do I get the fall service update?

I have this exact same problem.

What software version are you at now? You should have gotten the fall service update a long time ago.

[wtherrell]

How do I get the fall service update?

I have this exact same problem.

Well, it started happening again. Rebooting the THD keeps it in the NPL for several days, then it disappears again. Redoing the settings from the S2 gets it to appear for just long enough to transfer some recordings and then it goes away again. So it's still not fixed.

[jmace57]

FWIW - and if misery likes company - I have had the same thing happen with a series 2 that has (had) been successfully connected for years. All of my other TiVo's are fine...

Jim

[ggieseke]

I don't know if it will help, but go to http://dynamic.tivo.com/developer/tivo_license.asp, accept the agreement, and download the TiVo Connect Automatic Machine Discovery Protocol Specification. It describes exactly how UDP broadcasts on port 2190 work, and the broadcast-based and connection-based discovery methods.

It's interesting reading if nothing else, and may trigger an idea.

[infin8007]

alright, turned off dhcp and set static IP for the ethernet connected tivo mac that disappears and set the same static ip in the tivo itself.
The ip is not conflicted with any other device.

Still no help.

Also notice that the disappearing tivo drops off the "active client list" in my lan status page. (ddwrt micro).

it's like the ethernet connected tivo is stopping saying "hey look at me"
or it's saying "hey only look at me, for x amount of time and dont' look at me any more".

but then again the router also forgets about the ethernet tivo...

but then when I turn on another tivo from reboot, i guess it says
"hey are any other tivo's around?" and it says "yea i'm here, but only for a short period of time.. x seconds" and the other tivo says
"ok after x time, i'll forget about you"

[Yoav]

I'm guessing the router is doing something 'odd'.

The tivo should not drop off the list of 'active clients' given how it should be using the net fairly regularly.

For ****s and giggles, can you either install a different firmware on your router (tomato?) or try using another router? See if things improve? (hmm looks like your router doesn't support tomato or many of the other open firmware things.. sigh). Do you at least have a different router you can toy with? It would be nice to know if it's something wrong with the tivo or something wrong with the router...

[wtherrell]

I'm guessing the router is doing something 'odd'.

The tivo should not drop off the list of 'active clients' given how it should be using the net fairly regularly.

For ****s and giggles, can you either install a different firmware on your router (tomato?) or try using another router? See if things improve? (hmm looks like your router doesn't support tomato or many of the other open firmware things.. sigh). Do you at least have a different router you can toy with? It would be nice to know if it's something wrong with the tivo or something wrong with the router...
Belkin Pre-n does same thing.
Linksys 54G does same thing.

[Yoav]

When the tivo drops off the NPL, do you still see it on your PC via bonjour? Not entirely clear why but it sounds like broadcast udp (the service discovery for bonjour) is no longer being routed to your wired tivo (which would be expected if the router decided it's not really there any more).

(i.e. to show up on NPL on a wireless tivo, when you go to the Now Playing list, the wireless tivo sends out a broadcast on port 53 and waits for the other tivos to reply... )

[greg_burns]

alright, turned off dhcp and set static IP for the ethernet connected tivo mac that disappears and set the same static ip in the tivo itself.

Probably won't matter much but I would leave DHCP on on your router. Also, leave the Tivo set to DHCP as well.

Set a static IP address in the router for the MAC address of your Tivo (that was what installing wwdrt gives you the ability to do). Make sure that IP address is outside of your DHCP range! (if it runs from 192.168.1.100-150 or something, make the static one 192.168.1.99 or whatever.)

[infin8007]

That's pretty much how I had it setup before I turned off dhcp. starting at 20 with max clients 10. tivo is set to to .178. Although I didn't have the mac set to static in the router.

I have no idea of what bonjour is? I could automate my pc to run
a command to say hello to the ethernet tivo to wake it up but i dont know what that command would be?

[infin8007]

Question, when the wireless tivo turns on, all of a sudden the ethernet tivo shows up briefly. However going to NPL doesn't call up the ethernet tivo. Is the problem that NPL isn't sending out the wake up command the same way it does as when it boots up?

[infin8007]

I am running DD-WRT. I've been doing a lot of configuration changes
like putting windows 7 beta on my pc's.. as well as trying to diagnose router
failures with my xbox360.. in the course of all my actions some of my problems got worse and I did some research on what settings in the router actually are, instead of blindly following "how to"'s like setting up a bridge.

Anywho..

I believe the culprit is in my router firmware DD-WRT MICRO 24 sp1
in the first section for SETUP I had STP enabled. Apparently it should be
disabled for comcast.. STP does something like "stopping the packets from looping around" in a network.. but I think it blocks the tivo beacons. I disabled it
and now my tivo's are in the NPL.

The other change I made was to make changes in "DNS Masq" and "dhcp authoritative", disabling them. I suspect it's the STP though.

So good luck!

[infin8007]

Update:

I have found that the
"enable wmm support" in my routers software can block the tivo's
from seeing each other.