basic cable service w/ FIOS until CC install?

[ehagberg]

I think this should be a simple question, and might be directly related to the apparent need to attenuate the FIOS cable signal when used with a Tivo HD, but here goes...

I've got FIOS service that can be hooked up directly to my TV and some channels can be easily tuned by the built-in tuner. If I take the same cable and connect it to my new Tivo HD (waiting to get the CableCard(s) installed), it seems like the Tivo should be able to decode and tune into a number of the channels between 2 and 41 or so... however, all of them result in just a blank gray screen. I've already forced connections enough times to get a 9.4 version of the software installed in the unit now.

Some of the channels in the lower end (2-8 or so) don't ever lock in at all, but simply show up occasionally in the diagnostics screen with a SNR of 34db and a signal strength of 81 or so. Other channels do get locked in, but never show any video or audio. Those channels have a SNR of about 35db and signal strength of about 87-93.

If I hook up an antenna, the tuners have no problem pulling in some local stations.

Has anyone seen this sort of behavior - where "basic cable" without cablecards is completely useless like this? Does it sound like the sort of thing that might be helped by some signal attenuation?

I'd imagine this isn't something that'll magically get fixed if cablecards are installed, right?

Thanks,

-Eric

[V7Goose]

Well, Until the recent switch by FiOS to total digital in my area, I also had the standard analog signals on the first 49 channels. I do know for a fact that my S3 AND my HD TiVo boxes could receive those 49 channels just fine since I did that while waiting for my cable cards. The point is that those channels used to be analog, not digital.

I have not tried to receive them since the recent switch to all digital because it just is not worth having to re-do all the channels I receive to dump the garbage I don't want to ever see after I test!

However, I can tell you one interesting thing I noticed a few months ago when I bought the HD unit. I wanted to test it out without waiting for the FiOS cable cards so I just pulled the cards out of the S3 and did the full setup - all worked great. Now here is the interesting part - I did NOT redo guided setup on the S3 while the cards were out so that I wouldn't have to re-do guided setup when I put the cards back in, but I thought I could still watch the first 49 without them. When I first tried to tune in one of those analog stations I got a blank screen, but after a minute or so the TiVo "found" the station. I assumed this was because it had been using the digital version of the channel through the cable card and needed to remap itself to the analog channel. After finding the channel once, it tunned immediately to it when changing channels after that. When I tried to tune the S3 to one of the digital channels that needed the cable card, Oddly enough, it found most of the non-premium channels the same way! This means that it was not just finding the 49 analog channels, but was also reaching all open digital channels. Turned out that the TiVo could find all of the non-premium digital channels that I can find when I hook the FiOS cable directly to my digital HD TV.

When I pulled the cards out of the HD box to put back in the S3, it functioned exactly the same way.

[ehagberg]

Apparently (maybe this changed during the big realignment done a month or two ago) the channels that you get with the "basic cable" lineup don't map to anything that the Tivo can tune in properly.

I was able to get the channels my TV can tune in by having the Tivo do a channel scan and then pick out the right ones. Of course, since the channels don't map to what the guide data has, you can't do anything other than manual recordings and live TV, but at least it makes it look more likely that the tuners themselves are fine and maybe everything will be OK when I get the cablecards installed.

[V7Goose]

Apparently (maybe this changed during the big realignment done a month or two ago) the channels that you get with the "basic cable" lineup don't map to anything that the Tivo can tune in properly.

I was able to get the channels my TV can tune in by having the Tivo do a channel scan and then pick out the right ones. Of course, since the channels don't map to what the guide data has, you can't do anything other than manual recordings and live TV, but at least it makes it look more likely that the tuners themselves are fine and maybe everything will be OK when I get the cablecards installed.

After I pulled out the cable cards and let TiVo search on it's own to find the channels again when I tuned to each one, it correctly found the right channel for most of the basic lineup (of the ones it found, only a couple odd ones were wrong). The guide data remained accurate.

I suggest you select the channel lineup for your provider as if you had the cable cards installed, say no to any premium channels, then manually try to tune in each channel that should be in the basic package. Start with the main networks to see how long you generally have to wait for it to find each one, then after you have gone through them all, remove the ones that it cannot find from your "Channels I receive" list. This will take a while, but I suspect you will end up with accurate guide data for the non-protected digital channels. Good luck.

[ehagberg]

After I pulled out the cable cards and let TiVo search on it's own to find the channels again when I tuned to each one, it correctly found the right channel for most of the basic lineup (of the ones it found, only a couple odd ones were wrong). The guide data remained accurate.

I suggest you select the channel lineup for your provider as if you had the cable cards installed, say no to any premium channels, then manually try to tune in each channel that should be in the basic package. Start with the main networks to see how long you generally have to wait for it to find each one, then after you have gone through them all, remove the ones that it cannot find from your "Channels I receive" list. This will take a while, but I suspect you will end up with accurate guide data for the non-protected digital channels. Good luck.

I'd say that either you are lucky or it wouldn't work that way anymore since the realignment was done.

I did exactly what you suggest the first time around. _None_ of the channels that my current lineup would give me work without the cablecards. I had to have the Tivo scan for channels and only then did I get any to work - some were identified with call letters, but still don't get guide data assigned.

Or are you suggesting lying to the system and saying I have cablecards even tough I don't and see what happens? I'm not even sure you can get through guided setup w/o cablecards if you tell it you do have them...

[V7Goose]

I'd say that either you are lucky or it wouldn't work that way anymore since the realignment was done.

I did exactly what you suggest the first time around. _None_ of the channels that my current lineup would give me work without the cablecards. I had to have the Tivo scan for channels and only then did I get any to work - some were identified with call letters, but still don't get guide data assigned.

Or are you suggesting lying to the system and saying I have cablecards even tough I don't and see what happens? I'm not even sure you can get through guided setup w/o cablecards if you tell it you do have them...
Yes, that is exactly what I am suggesting. Frankly, I don't do the full guided setup often enough to remember all of the steps, so you could be right that it will choke if the cable cards are not in there. In my case, I DID have the cable cards in there for guided setup, then I removed them and it continued to work on basic channels as I described. It did periodically tell me that I no longer had the cable cards and needed to re-run guided setup, but I just ignored that and it kept working.

[ehagberg]

If you don't have cablecards, saying that you do won't help - it detects that there's nothing in the slots and adjusts accordingly.