TiVo Storage Upgrade IDE to Compact Flash

[bugmenever]

I have an original 30-hr Philips Series 1 TiVo that has been unaltered. After eight years of faithful operation it was acting kinda flaky the other day. Without going into all the details, I'd like to finally replace the drive in my unit.

I'm a programmer and general electronics nerd, so I think I can handle the upgrade easily enough, but I was wondering if anyone had used an IDE to Compact Flash adapter as their TiVo's primary storage? Something like this: http://*******.com/5pyd9o

Now I know CF can be slow, but you can also get pretty fast versions. I haven't done any comparisons yet, but I think that some decent, modern CF would favorably compare in read/write speed to an eight year old 30GB IDE drive.

Before I go any further, I thought I'd check here and see if anyone else has tried this.

[tivoupgrade]

I have an original 30-hr Philips Series 1 TiVo that has been unaltered. After eight years of faithful operation it was acting kinda flaky the other day. Without going into all the details, I'd like to finally replace the drive in my unit.

I'm a programmer and general electronics nerd, so I think I can handle the upgrade easily enough, but I was wondering if anyone had used an IDE to Compact Flash adapter as their TiVo's primary storage? Something like this: http://*******.com/5pyd9o

Now I know CF can be slow, but you can also get pretty fast versions. I haven't done any comparisons yet, but I think that some decent, modern CF would favorably compare in read/write speed to an eight year old 30GB IDE drive.

Before I go any further, I thought I'd check here and see if anyone else has tried this.

You are not going to find a CF card even close to being large enough to even try that. Solid State Drives are a possibility, but they are much more expensive than conventional disk drives. Pretty sure those are all SATA-based and a converter won't work in a Series1, anyway.

Obviously, the value is subjective, but even if it did work, I doubt there would be any merit to doing that; why would you spend several hundred dollars on a solid state device that is the size of your original hard drive, vs < $100 for one that is five times its original size?

[bugmenever]

Actually, you can get 32GB CF cards. Check out newegg. Prices start at $68.

They are IDE to CF (you can get SATA also). The link I originally posted was blocked.
http://*******.com/5pyd9o (replace *'s with tiny url no space) and you will see. IDE to CF adapter for $5.

Size isn't really that big of an issue. Sure I can get a bigger hard drive for the same price, but if I can reduce noise, heat and power consumption I don't really care because I never had issues with only 30 hours of storage.

A lack of space isn't my motivation for upgrading. It's more because I believe my existing drive is beginning to fail.

[richsadams]

Sounds like an interesting project...and I'd like to hear more if you can get it to work. But I have to agree that it's a bit of a stretch unless you're the type that just likes to fool around with stuff to see if it works. It seems like the time and money spent getting it to work wouldn't be worth it.

If your TiVo is of any real use you can probably find a replacement IDE drive for $20 or $30 these days...although no matter what it'll probably be larger. Or if you're not interested in HD, I'd just pick up a used or refurb Series1 (like this one) (http://cgi.ebay.com/Philips-Series-1-TiVo-Recorder-PTV100_W0QQitemZ140270822200QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item14027082 2200&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A134%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) or Series2 (like this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/TiVo-TCD540040-Series-2-DVR-Recorder-40-Hours_W0QQitemZ130264490565QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item130264490 565&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A134%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1307) ) for $15 or $20 from ebay. I'd offer up our Series1 which still works fine, but even though it's just sitting on a closet shelf, I have some weird sentimental attachment to it for some reason. :rolleyes:

[bugmenever]

My current TiVo didn't cost me anything, I won it through the "Great TiVo Giveaway" where I wrote an essay of 1,000 words or less. It's about the only thing I've ever won :)

I'm really not interested in another TiVo because this one also has a lifetime subscription.

Sadly, I'd love an HD TiVo but I'm in an area serviced by Comcast and their rates are astronomical, so I'm not even considering digital cable. I'm kinda waiting to see what happens with AT&T Uverse which is supposed to be turned on in my area "before Christmas."

I will say that between Amazon, Hulu, Joost and ABC.com I can get almost all of the TV programming I would want without any cable/dish at all, just DSL.

I thought it might be an interesting project to try the CF card thing just to see if it worked. Seems like set-top boxes are a good application of flash memory. I was just curious if anyone else had tried it first. A 32GB CF card is cool, but I really don't have much use for one if it didn't work in TiVo :)

[ForrestB]

I've read that most general purpose CF cards are designed for infrequent use - and the memory will wear out faster than a hard drive. I think it would be an interesting experiment to determine if this info is correct.

[Worf]

It may work on a series 1 TiVo (they don't use anything but PIO mode to access the drives), but I think the series 2 and such do start using the UDMA modes. CF cards don't support UDMA (except the ultra-fast ones), and even such, most UDMA implements on CF cards are broken that they may not work as a regular drive unless forced into PIO mode. This may or may not affect the TiVo.

The CF-SATA adapters have the same issue. If the TiVo requires UDMA to work, then a CF won't work at all - PIO is too slow.

CF may not be a good idea anyhow (or an SSD) because the TiVo is continually reading/writing tot he drive. Flash memory has a limited lifetime, and while most of them (especially SSDs) will last as long as a normal hard disk for typical use, a TiVo will rapidly accellerate the demise of flash media.

Either way though, TiVo is designed to work with regular hard drives. Using a CF card, if compatible with TiVo in working with the UMDA modes also, won't really improve the TiVo much, other than possibly making the UI "snappier".

[stamasd]

Worf makes some very good points here. I have used before CF cards with IDE adapters (for instance in a webpal based web server (http://webpal.bigbrd.com/) - this isn't my site, just where I got the instructions from), but the situation there is very different. The device isn't continuously writing to CF.

[bugmenever]

Hmm, I guess I'm going to have to use a regular ol' hard drive.

I knew that flash memory had limited write cycles, but I was certain that I heard a trusted podcast recently that said there was nothing to worry about. I had to look up the transcript and I was partially right: you don't need to worry about wearing out flash memory for typical use, but if you want to use it for non-stop reads/writes you're setting yourself up for trouble.

[richsadams]

I'm really not interested in another TiVo because this one also has a lifetime subscription.Oops, missed that it was lifetime. Replacing the drive would be the best bet then. You can also buy a new TiVo from TiVo and transfer the lifetime service but IIRC there's an additional charge although they have special freebie/upgrade offers now and then...worth a call if you want something new. But if you're happy with what you have, I'd just pop a new hard drive in using winMFS (http://mfslive.org) (I think you can use it with older models) or Instant Cake (http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm) and enjoy!