Directv HD-DVR simply blows

[Outlineboy]

This is old news I'm sure. I've had Directv and Tivo for many many years and loved them both. I recently went HD and had no choice but to get stuck with the Directv HR21-700. I miss TIVO SO badly I can't even put it into words.

I mean, can this platform suck any more? Not having the buffering on the dual tuners???!! No wish lists? The searching stinks... The navigation as a whole is awful ! No shortcut to To Do list !

It's the dual tuner buffering that riles me the most. When I first hooked up I pushed the down arrow button for ten minutes before I realized it's not there. Are they going to update that?!

Are there any software updates planned?

The only good thing about this experience is that the HDTV picture is really nice! :up:

But I am SO SO disappointed with DTV DVR. I want my TIVO back!!!!

End of 2009? That doesn't help me now.

[JimSpence]

What receiver are you using for HD? I ask because I believe the R15 is an SD DVR receiver.

You can find info about the R15 here.
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106

[Outlineboy]

What receiver are you using for HD? I ask because I believe the R15 is an SD DVR receiver.

You can find info about the R15 here.
http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=106


I messed up.... was thinking of something totally different (that's how frustrated I am)

I have a DTV HR21-700. That's what sucks.

[stevel]

I have the HR21-700 and I like it. I also have a HR10-250. There are new features being added on a monthly basis, though "dual live buffers" are not planned anytime soon. There are ways around that. The HR21 has nice features the TiVos don't have, such as boolean keyword searches and networking. The interface is much faster than TiVo's, too. Yes, it is different and takes some adjustment.

[Outlineboy]

I have the HR21-700 and I like it. I also have a HR10-250. There are new features being added on a monthly basis, though "dual live buffers" are not planned anytime soon. There are ways around that. The HR21 has nice features the TiVos don't have, such as boolean keyword searches and networking. The interface is much faster than TiVo's, too. Yes, it is different and takes some adjustment.
I'm slowly getting used to finding my way around, but there is still WAY too much lacking compared to the TIVO platform.

Watching football today really makes me miss the dual buffering. How is there any way around that, other than recording one of the channels??

[stevel]

Recording one of the channels is the way. In a way it's like TiVo that if there's something you really want to see, record it - don't depend on the live buffer which can get switched out from under you without notice.

There's a lot on the HR21 that's lacking on TiVos. Personally, I find both interfaces usable, but I've spent a lot of time with the HR2x. My wife prefers the TiVo interface, but she has not taken the time to learn the HR21. The TiVo was difficult for her at first too, but now she's a wizard.

[Citivas]

I am not a hater or apologist for either platform, but personally I have always found the suggestion of recording one of the shows as a DLB "work-around" weak. It's not like that idea didn't occur to a vast majority of the people who miss DLB. Clearly they don't consider it comparable. In my experience having suffered through some of the epic DLB debates over on DBSTalk, you are either a DLB lover or you are not. That isn't to see if you aren't that you didn't use it once in a while. But the people who suggest the record-one-show work-around clearly didn't rely on the unique way that DLB works as much as those who really miss it. I'm not going to bother trying to explain the differences because about 100 pages of posts at DBSTalk didn't convince any of the non-believers on either side so one post won't here. My only point is for those who loved DLB the work-around is not even remotely a comparable substitute. To me it is just better to accept it as a clearly missing feature of the HR2X series versus TiVo, along with the 50 SP limitation (I like the apologists "work-around" for that one even more -- get a another box!). That doesn't make one box or the other better because there are bunch of features on the HR2X missing from the TiVo. It's just different. Better or worse becomes a subjective decision of individual users based on their priorities. If you're priority is HD (beyond the locals on OTA) then you need an HR2x for now and that trumps your need for DLB.

[lazymannow]

The interface is much faster than TiVo's, too. Yes, it is different and takes some adjustment.

The interface faster.............You got to be kidding

NO WAY

[bigpuma]

The interface faster.............You got to be kidding

NO WAY

Go to the season pass manager and make a few changes then go to the prioritizer and make a few changes. Tell me which is much much faster.

[Texish]

There is no question that the interface is faster on the HR21. However that's little consolation when it consistently misses recordings. There is nothing more aggravating than looking forward to watching a show, only to hit play and see the black screen of nothing. That happens to me at least 3 or 4 times a month.

Even after rebooting, it still does this. I didn't miss one recording in almost 8 years of Tivo. And that is in essence the main functionality of a DVR. With the HR21, I now have to go manually check to see when a program starts recording, if it is actually recording. If not, then I have to stop what I'm doing and go to live tv. Stop the recording. Change channels. Change it back to the correct channel. And hit record again. All because the HR21 is a POS. Give me Tivo any day of the year.

And don't tell me to get another one. This is my 3rd HR21. They all have the same problem. I'm just biding my time until the new Directivo comes out. I was going to leave Directv in May (when my lease is up). But now I will stay until the new Directivo is released. The new Directivo can't get here fast enough for me. I hope it isn't late.

[Mark W]

My first DVR was a DTivo. I have had one since 2001. So I am biased towards Tivo, but the HR-21 has a lot of nice things that DTivos don't have. I like that it doesn't have any please wait situations. In the DTivos, just playing a program off the Now Playing list causes Please Wait situations. As said above, making Priority changes in the season pass list is really a joke. Having ANYTHING take several minutes on a DVR is ridiculous.

When I use the HR-21, I really miss DLB. I still do find some things unintuitive in the interface too.

[Rodney]

Go to the season pass manager and make a few changes then go to the prioritizer and make a few changes. Tell me which is much much faster.

Go to the guide and you can see what is coming up on the station you highlight later that day much easier on the TiVo. And you can see what "was" on earlier that you missed, in case you are looking for a specific show. I hate the guide in the HR2x.

Plus the deal with trying to search for shows on stations you actually get. Don't tell me that they have fixed that yet, 'cause they haven't.
For myself, I cannot wait for the new TiVo option from DirecTV!!! Even if that is just the HR10-250 with mpeg4 support, I will love that much better than the HR2x from DirecTV.

[bengalfreak]

Go to the season pass manager and make a few changes then go to the prioritizer and make a few changes. Tell me which is much much faster.

Of course its faster. When you limit the number of season passes and the OS can just plug in a hard number of times to perform the loop, its going to be faster. But that is not an advantage when you create such a big draw back as only a certain number of SP's..

[mp11]

Go to the season pass manager and make a few changes then go to the prioritizer and make a few changes. Tell me which is much much faster.

Ever tried editing your channel list on a HR20/21? I have to push so many buttons my finger gets tired. Rediculous. And the "to do list" used to be easy. Just press the yellow button. But not anymore. :mad:

[tucsonbill]

.... In a way it's like TiVo that if there's something you really want to see, record it - don't depend on the live buffer which can get switched out from under you without notice.... My wife prefers the TiVo interface, but she has not taken the time to learn the HR21...Just had to respond -- I started with ReplayTV in (heck don't even remember when). Still have two operating. Bought two HR10-250s two years ago. added an HR-21 last year. Through all of this my wife has steadfastly refused to learn to use anything but trickplays. (Oh she can play something I've set up to record for her, but she refuses to acknowledge the "record" button on any of the DVRs.) Don't understand, and never will, though I love her dearly. If you REALLY want it RECORD it!

[iaflyer]

I've had the HR21 for a while now and just don't like it. My wife doesn't like it either.

My complaints:

The interface looks like someone from Walmart designed it.
It misses recordings on occasion, (in 7 years, my other Tivos never missed one)
"VOD" is useless - just a page to appear to offer VOD. All it is, is a scheduler. Get rid of it.
Menus are slow.
Remote is unfriendly, and require hard button presses (and no, I am not old).
No wishlists.
Only 50 SP - I don't watch a lot of TV, but I like having a variety of shows available. I only put in SP from my old tivo and I'm around 44 now, with this fall not scheduled yet.

[coachO]

Outlineboy, I think your comment, echoed by many, is the reason D* is going back with Tivo.

I only put up with the HR20 because I view it as a HD adapter to my HR10-250. The new Tivo can not get here soon enough for me.

[stevel]

"VOD" is useless - just a page to appear to offer VOD. All it is, is a scheduler.

Not so. VOD downloads shows over the network connection. I have used this and it works very nicely. There are thousands of shows available through VOD which are not transmitted over the satellite.

If you don't have the HR2x networked, then VOD is not available to you (nor are some other nice features.)

[Citivas]

Not so. VOD downloads shows over the network connection. I have used this and it works very nicely. There are thousands of shows available through VOD which are not transmitted over the satellite.

If you don't have the HR2x networked, then VOD is not available to you (nor are some other nice features.)

Really -- thousands not available on any of the channels? Where do you find all these. When I have browsed it it seems like it is mostly stuff that has played on the various channels they have sometime within the last month or so. They all list the channels they corrospond to and I haven't noticed thousands of things not available on the regular channels.

That said, I have found a loophole that has helped us get some more kids programming. While they don't let you take things that had been on Showtime or Starz if you don't pay for that package already, the same restriction doesn't apply to Boomarang, even though you normally have to pay for the extra family pack. So we have used VOD for that. It was also great during the Olympics for getting nice capsure-sized versions of the major events each night.

[Citivas]

I've had the HR21 for a while now and just don't like it. My wife doesn't like it either.

My complaints:

The interface looks like someone from Walmart designed it.
It misses recordings on occasion, (in 7 years, my other Tivos never missed one)
"VOD" is useless - just a page to appear to offer VOD. All it is, is a scheduler. Get rid of it.
Menus are slow.
Remote is unfriendly, and require hard button presses (and no, I am not old).
No wishlists.
Only 50 SP - I don't watch a lot of TV, but I like having a variety of shows available. I only put in SP from my old tivo and I'm around 44 now, with this fall not scheduled yet.

Missed Recordings. Yes, but there are a bunch of people with HR2x who will tell you they have never missed a show and there are plenty with 10-250's who will tell you it misses shows all the time. So this is just the luck of the draw and not really an advantage for either platform. For me, my first 6 months of instablity with the HR20 was the worst consumer electronics experience OF MY LIFE. It was a disaster. Totally useless. But now it has been more stable than the 10-250 which never has totally recovered from the firmware updates that cause shows to occasionally drop off the to-do list unless carefully monitored every night (a "known issue"). It has been refreshing since I got the HR22 to not have to worry about that (so far, fingers crossed).

VOD. I find it minorly useful. It has some kids shows I don't otherwise get and PPV that has fallen off the life rotation and we've use it to get programs that we hadn't recorded previously for various reasons. And it is great for special events like the Olympics. Still, I consider it a minor feature at best.

Almost everyone agrees the menus and general speed of the HR2x is much faster than the 10-250 which is notoriously slow, so I am not sure where this is coming from. My guess is you are really seeing the poor responsiveness of the remote . I find that it takes longer sometimes to page down, etc., just because the remote is so unresponsive. I agree with you, the remote sucks compared to the TiVo one. Mine got a lot better when I gave up using the RF mode but its still not the IDEO-designed, award-winning TiVo one by a mile.

50 SP limit. Agreed. This totally blows. And the apologists who excuse this feature limitation are annoying. It is a weak excuse to blame the slow TiVo SP management on the lack of this limitation as justification for the limit. I would rather have a slower response and more SP's. It's easy for those who don't need 50 to dismiss it but they obviously aren't the market for this feature so really its none of their business.

On the plus side, once you get used to them all the color-coded shortcut buttons on the HR2x remote are very useful time saves. And ultimately the HR2x has a lot more trickplay options than the TiVo. I have come to really like the feature where I tick off a # of multiple 30 second skips and just sit back and wait for the show to resume without having to watch for when I need to push play again. It is great to be able to setup a season pass just by hitting record twice from the grid or in a live show. I can review 1 to-do list and see what will and won't record without having the toggle back-and-forth between the to-do and the to-do history screens. Etc. They are just different...

[TyroneShoes]

...
Almost everyone agrees the menus and general speed of the HR2x is much faster than the 10-250 which is notoriously slow, so I am not sure where this is coming from. My guess is you are really seeing the poor responsiveness of the remote . I find that it takes longer sometimes to page down, etc., just because the remote is so unresponsive. I agree with you, the remote sucks compared to the TiVo one. Mine got a lot better when I gave up using the RF mode but its still not the IDEO-designed, award-winning TiVo one by a mile.

50 SP limit. Agreed. This totally blows...

On the plus side, once you get used to them all the color-coded shortcut buttons on the HR2x remote are very useful time saves. And ultimately the HR2x has a lot more trickplay options than the TiVo. I have come to really like the feature where I tick off a # of multiple 30 second skips and just sit back and wait for the show to resume without having to watch for when I need to push play again. It is great to be able to setup a season pass just by hitting record twice from the grid or in a live show. I can review 1 to-do list and see what will and won't record without having the toggle back-and-forth between the to-do and the to-do history screens. Etc. They are just different...Great post.

I question the part about an unresponsive remote, tho. This is not the first time I've seen that complaint, but I've never had any issues with the remote other than the lame "press and hold" features like slo-mo (WHICH DEFINITELY SUCKS AND NEEDS TO BE COMPLETELY RETHOUGHT AND REIMPLEMENTED). You say yours got better AFTER turning RF off, which makes me wonder if those complaining don't all have local RF interference issues from lighting dimmers or security systems. My remote is as responsive as it gets, in either RF or IR mode.

Just as a point of note, I recorded a program on my HR10 from the EPG the other night, and it took 4 full minutes for the "please wait" screen to go away. This might have something to do with having no phone connected to it, old software, sure, but as John Wayne once said, "it's gettin' to be re-god-damned-diculous". Not that surprisingly, if you carve a Tivo down to 3 SPs and 2 WLs and 15 hours of recordings, it gets very, very peppy. Obviously the Tivo software was crafted in the era of 9 GB HDDs and 100 WLs or SPs was unthinkable for a "personal" video recorder in 1997.

And my first PVR was indeed one of those 14-hour original Tivos in 1998. While I have never been as emotionally blown away by technology as I was then (and this from a Macintosh-fervent Kool-Aid drinking Apple evangelist at the time, so that's saying a lot) it also had 3 huge flaws that made it not nearly as beloved as my Replays. There was a PQ hit, it interfaced horribly with DISH network, and the tiny HDD made having no capacity meter nearly an unworkable situation.

But here's the point, and I apologize for getting there the long way around: After no Tivo for 5 years, moving to the SD Dtivo was no bed of roses either, so there is an adjustment period for anything. I eventually became as supportive of the SD DTivo as anyone, and still think the HR10 was in it's day the most advanced and sophisticated piece of home theatre gear I had ever seen by far, but it took going through that learning curve even though I had a history of operating Tivos. The HR2x has a learning curve also, but IMHO it is definitely worth the effort to forge ahead and to not simply moan and whine about how its not Tivo, its not what you might be used to, and its not the way YOU would have designed it. (not "you", Citivas, but the general "you".)

I'm not saying shut up and settle, because I don't consider the HR2x a downgrade, overall (each has its warts and its bright spots) and so settling is not an issue. I'm only saying it pays to have an open mind and give it a chance, which I think will pay off.

[rlj5242]

Compare the HR2x series to the Dishplayer and see which one sucked more. The Dishplayer was the only DVR to have a class action lawsuit brought by its users. Thank goodness I left Dish before being given one of their replacement DVRs.

I'm with Tyrone on DVR speed. I set up the MNF game last night on the HR10. It took at least 10 minutes to set up the pregame, game and extend the recording 30 minutes to account for an overtime. The same steps on my HR20 would take less than 1 minute total.

I have not had any issues with the remote either but I used it for about an hour. I immediately programmed my Harmony 880 to control all of my DVRs.

I just had an HR22 installed to replace my GXCEBOT. After a few weeks of the new TV season, the HR10 may be retired as well.

-Robert

[stevel]

Regarding VOD - yes, all of those shows have been on regular channels at some time in the past, but possibly years ago and may not be currently repeated, so it is not just a "scheduler". As soon as you add one of the VOD shows to the queue, it starts downloading and you can watch it within minutes (if your Internet connection is fast enough.) I've also found "special" short programs that don't appear to have been regular broadcasts.

I have not had a problem with missed recordings nor with the remote, though like others, I use a Harmony remote for daily use. Over the past month or so, my HR10 has frozen three times, missing recordings, and the HR21 has been flawless..

[Charlutz]

I'd just like to point out that the OP is a new HR2x user and most of the replies are from veterans. It's been hashed and rehashed many times. The two machines are different and anyone that's taken the time to use both knows what the differences are. When moving from the tivo to the Hr2x, you will miss some things and that will disappoint you, but you will not yet have learned the things that the HR2x does better. They exist. Learn them, and then bitch if you still don't like it. Just realize you could cut and paste millions of posts that were already made by posters before you, as well as the replies.

I like my Hr2x. I miss some tivo features, especially DLB during football season. But the HD 8 game split screen is phenomenal. As is the working caller ID and other features tivo never got right. It's technology. It will be replaced in a very short time and given directv's history, they'll give me the new box for free or give me credits to offset the cost. So I spend my time worrying about other things.

[Citivas]

Regarding VOD - yes, all of those shows have been on regular channels at some time in the past, but possibly years ago and may not be currently repeated, so it is not just a "scheduler".

Are you sure about that -- i.e. shows having not been on the channels for years? My impression is it only has stuff that was on within the last month or two and when you see a bunch of episodes its because they were recently repeated on those channels. If it really was years worth of shows, why is it a seemingly arbitrary subset of the series?

[pretzelbag]

Ever tried editing your channel list on a HR20/21? I have to push so many buttons my finger gets tired. Rediculous. And the "to do list" used to be easy. Just press the yellow button. But not anymore. :mad:

I've had my HR21 for a month now and I still cannot figure out how to remove channels I don't get from the guide or the "search for recording" function. It keeps asking me if I want to record shows on channels I don't get -- recordings that will obviously not occur.

And pressing the Guide button brings up hundreds of channels I don't get, and don't ever want to get. But I see them there...over and over and over again.

Don't tell me I can use a "favorites" channel list -- I already use those for (surprise!) my groups of favorite channels, not "all the channels in my subscribed package which by the way DirecTV should already know I get".

In this regard, my old HR10-250 crushes the HR21 every day, every way.

(In fact, it's a good thing the HR21 is often faster than the HR10, because I've gotta page through 3x as many channels on the HR21 to see what's showing on the channels in my package.)

-pretzelbag.

[JimSpence]

Hopefully a future upgrade to the HR2x units will allow you to edit the actual Channels You Get list. I'd like to see them add a list for use by the search functions and leave the two other favorites for that purpose.

[Jon J]

I've had my HR21 for a month now and I still cannot figure out how to remove channels I don't get from the guide

You can't. You have two Favorites lists for that.

Don't tell me I can use a "favorites" channel list -- I already use those for (surprise!) my groups of favorite channels, not "all the channels in my subscribed package which by the way DirecTV should already know I get".


You have identified a shortcoming for which there is no current solution. Not using a favorites list to partially solve your problem is your decision.

You might try visiting DBSTalk.com where you will find others with this same complaint and a larger universe of persons using the HRxx receivers.

[parzec]

The HR21 Box is pretty and I like all to ports on the back. That is really the only good thing I can say about it. The interface and color scheme looks like it was based on an AMIGA 1000 platform -- it would have been cool in 1988, but that was 20 years ago. The menus and guide navagation are s-l-o-w. I was so unimpressed with the HR21 that I suspended my DTV account two months ago and will probably keep it suspended until the new Tivo box/software is released. Yes, it is that bad.

[shibby191]

Are you sure about that -- i.e. shows having not been on the channels for years? My impression is it only has stuff that was on within the last month or two and when you see a bunch of episodes its because they were recently repeated on those channels. If it really was years worth of shows, why is it a seemingly arbitrary subset of the series?

I personally don't go to the VOD all that much but one cool thing I found a while back was "behind the scenes" mini episodes of Dirty Jobs and Mythbusters, the things usually found on the Discovery channel web site. I thought that was pretty cool. Also found lots of concerts on the Concert channel or VH1 channel. But I haven't checked in a few months so no idea what is there now. Personally I have enough shows to watch so I don't check VOD all that much.

[shibby191]

I've had my HR21 for a month now and I still cannot figure out how to remove channels I don't get from the guide or the "search for recording" function. It keeps asking me if I want to record shows on channels I don't get -- recordings that will obviously not occur.

And pressing the Guide button brings up hundreds of channels I don't get, and don't ever want to get. But I see them there...over and over and over again.

Don't tell me I can use a "favorites" channel list -- I already use those for (surprise!) my groups of favorite channels, not "all the channels in my subscribed package which by the way DirecTV should already know I get".


For the most part Channels I Get works now. Only things I see "wrong" are in the 600s (the RSNs, due to all the recent and ongoing moves) and Showtime. Other then that it's pretty darn accurate for me. For you perhaps it's not and you should report the channels that aren't right over at DBSTalk. DirecTV has a thread they monitor for this and frankly there haven't been a whole lot of posts in the past couple months since they have mostly got it working. If people don't report the exact channels that are wrong they can't fix it. ;)

By the way, the reason it never worked in the past is when they turned it on the Tivo's choked on the new data stream (remember that a couple years ago) which then led to the recent Tivo update (as well as even old Ultimate TV's got an update). Still, I do which you could edit the CIG list like you could on a Tivo, or allow searches to go off a favorite list instead.

Also the boolean search parameters where you can actually limit the search to a specific channel or channel range also helps if this is an issue for you, and is very nice even if it's not. For example many have created searches for all season premiers happening on channels 2-50 so that it will only look at their locals. There is a thread on DBSTalk for people talking about what various searches they have done.

[RS4]

You can't. You have two Favorites lists for that.



You have identified a shortcoming for which there is no current solution. Not using a favorites list to partially solve your problem is your decision.

You might try visiting DBSTalk.com where you will find others with this same complaint and a larger universe of persons using the HRxx receivers.

Sorta reminds me of how rushed to market this box was without anyone bothering to find out what was already in the marketplace and what people really wanted. Just like the 50-SP list, DLB, and the PIG feature that can't be turned off, D* is now living with these poor decisions. It's no wonder they have come to their senses and finally decided to offer an alternative.

[JimSpence]

...It's no wonder they have come to their senses and finally decided to offer an alternative.Let's just hope that they have seen the light and the lessons learned will be incorporated into the new box.

[Jon J]

Let's just hope that they have seen the light and the lessons learned will be incorporated into the new box.Is it a pipe dream that some have proposed that TiVo software may actually be ported to the HRxx's?

[Texceo]

I love the Picture in Guide feature. I also hope they add the space remaing meter on the new Tivo unit. If they dont it will be like leaving the Dual Live Buffer out of the DTV unit.

I have 4 new HD DTV DVR units and still have 2 of the old DTV HD Tivo DVR units and 1 SD DTV Tivo DVR. I have NEVER had a problem with any of my units. The new DTV HD units are much faster and have a MUCH better HD picture then the old HD DTV Tivo unit. The only thing i miss about the Tivo unit is the DLB feature.

[Bob_Newhart]

I just hope the new HD Tivo comes with the peanut remote. The DTV remote is top heavy and fugly.

[Syzygy]

On the white D* remote, the obnoxious ACTIVE button is only 2 mm below the Pause button and gets pressed by accident in the dark, leading to a 3-5 second interruption while unwanted "active" content is loaded.

The only thing I miss about the Tivo unit is
• a user-friendly remote (where you don't have to press so hard, the trick-play buttons are in the middle, the Exit/Clear button doesn't change functions if you press it late, repeating starts after 1s -- not 3s -- and there's no fargin Active button),
• a logical UI,
• searching that finds all matches (not just some),
• autorecording that excludes channels you don't want,
• being allowed more than 50 SPs,
• the LiveTV button (and the down arrow that goes with it),
• quick access to the To Do list,
• no PIG (more room) or a way to automatically shut up the PIG while I'm using the UI...

The new DTV HD units are much faster.Only if you don't have many Series Links. If you have more than 20 it's slow, and if you have more than 40 it's beastly.

[Jebberwocky!]

I normally view over a HR20-100 but I was kicked out of my family room so I went to watch in my bedroom where I was dismayed to remember that the Tivo buffer isn't very long. Say what you want to but I would rather have a long buffer for 1 channel than shorter ones for two channels.

The best solution for lack of DB is to have multiple units ;)

[Jebberwocky!]

Only if you don't have many Series Links. If you have more than 20 it's slow, and if you have more than 40 it's beastly.

Not my experience - the HR2X's are so much faster then my TIVO's and I have three (HR2X) of them filled up near the max.

I do not miss the days of trying to set up a season pass on my DTivo and then having to wait 5 minutes for the machine to catch up.

[iaflyer]

Missed Recordings. Yes, but there are a bunch of people with HR2x who will tell you they have never missed a show and there are plenty with 10-250's who will tell you it misses shows all the time. Maybe I was lucky with my HR10, but it just didn't miss shows. Also, no blank recordings either. A glance at DBStalk.com indicates blank recordings are a current issue (at least last time I looked). I will say that if the HR21 ends up missing or recording nothing for new network shows that only air once (The Office, Survivor, etc) my wife's going to say, "whats the point of this thing if it doesn't work all the time?" I'll agree with her.

VOD. I find it minorly useful. It has some kids shows I don't otherwise get and PPV that has fallen off the life rotation and we've use it to get programs that we hadn't recorded previously for various reasons. And it is great for special events like the Olympics. Still, I consider it a minor feature at best.I'll have to move the network cable - I currently have the PS3 attached to the network (it's just a cabling issue). I misunderstood how VOD worked, but the shows on it didn't seem particularly appealing - nothing like a Comcast VOD which I've seen at a friend's house.

Almost everyone agrees the menus and general speed of the HR2x is much faster than the 10-250 which is notoriously slow, so I am not sure where this is coming from. My guess is you are really seeing the poor responsiveness of the remote . I find that it takes longer sometimes to page down, etc., just because the remote is so unresponsive. I agree with you, the remote sucks compared to the TiVo one. Mine got a lot better when I gave up using the RF mode but its still not the IDEO-designed, award-winning TiVo one by a mile.The menus do seem a touch faster, and certainly faster for things like recording a show. It could the a remote issue - but the end result is, I push a button, and it takes a second for the HR21 to respond. I don't care if it's the remote, the UI, or that the machine is busy doing something. It's bad enough I think I didn't push it hard enough, so I push again... In that respect, the HR21 is slower than the Tivo.

50 SP limit. Agreed. This totally blows. And the apologists who excuse this feature limitation are annoying. It is a weak excuse to blame the slow TiVo SP management on the lack of this limitation as justification for the limit. I would rather have a slower response and more SP's. It's easy for those who don't need 50 to dismiss it but they obviously aren't the market for this feature so really its none of their business.Like I said, we're close to the 50SP and we're not excessive watchers - we just like a variety of shows available, which is what a DVR is for right? It's just poor planning on DirecTV's part. 640K? Who will ever need more than that! :rolleyes:

On the plus side, once you get used to them all the color-coded shortcut buttons on the HR2x remote are very useful time saves. And ultimately the HR2x has a lot more trickplay options than the TiVo. I have come to really like the feature where I tick off a # of multiple 30 second skips and just sit back and wait for the show to resume without having to watch for when I need to push play again. It is great to be able to setup a season pass just by hitting record twice from the grid or in a live show. I can review 1 to-do list and see what will and won't record without having the toggle back-and-forth between the to-do and the to-do history screens. Etc. They are just different...True - we're used the Tivo since 2001, so there is a learning curve, but the Tivo's UI was well done. I really think DirecTV did a disservice to it's customers by dropping Tivo. I have every expectation that Tivo would have a great box that would blow away the HR21 if DirecTV would of let them. I forget how many years since the HR10 came out, but imagine if all those years of development went into the latest DirecTV box - it could possibly be awesome.

Some things like the 30 second slip, where it catches how many times you hit it, and goes that far ahead is nice, but the Tivo system was better. Hit the 30sec skip once, and boom, you're 30 seconds ahead, immediately. Not at the end of commericals? Hit it again, boom. I could skip the 3 minutes of commercials faster with the Tivo than the HR21, even with storing the button pushes.

There are some feature of the HR21 that are nice:

RF remote
Easy to decipher capacity meter
Once touch recording or series pass.
Being able to view pictures or video from my network server, but the Series2 Tivo could do this if I understand correctly.

I really can't think of any features I like more on the HR21. I don't like the PIP while in the guide of menus because I rarely watch live TV. I'm either watching a show or in the UI doing something. There are some things on the HR21 I really don't like, like how everytime I get into the list of recorded shows, it's at the top. I spend a lot of time paging down to the bottom. The VOD might be useful, I'll give it another try. I want to like it, but after knowing what a real Tivo unit is like, it's hard to accept a second-rate box.

[shibby191]

The only thing I miss about the Tivo unit is
• a user-friendly remote (where you don't have to press so hard, the trick-play buttons are in the middle, the Exit/Clear button doesn't change functions if you press it late, repeating starts after 1s -- not 3s -- and there's no fargin Active button),

I won't comment much on the remote. First thing I ever do is program it into my universal remote and dump the original into my remote graveyard box never to see the light of day again unless I replace my universal.

• a logical UI,[

Seems logical to me. Took me about a week but I figured out where everything is. This one I've never understood. Everything in the UI is very easy to use, just different then Tivo. But then UI is a personal preference. I'm just not married to any UI, don't care what it looks like.

• the LiveTV button (and the down arrow that goes with it),

Exit button gets you to Live TV from any menu if that's what you're looking for.

• no PIG (more room) or a way to automatically shut up the PIG while I'm using the UI...

PIG is certainly a hate it or love it feature. But I'm sure you'll see the PIG on the new HD DirecTivo. Why? Because pretty much every single receiver and DVR out there has a PIG except the stand alone Tivo's. Even the Comcast Tivo has a PIG. It's just a standard feature that's expected. But it would be nice to have an option to turn it off.

Only if you don't have many Series Links. If you have more than 20 it's slow, and if you have more than 40 it's beastly.

Huh? I've never seen that before nor seen anyone complain about it before. I've got 2 HD DVRs with more then 40 and it's just as fast as when they were new with none. If there is anything that's a difference is the HR20/21/22 are super fast while the DirecTivo's were "please wait a moment" all the time for minutes on end. Certainly any new DirecTivo should be much faster due to faster hardware. One can hope anyway.

[1999cobra]

I have two HR20's and I just bought an HR22 yesterday 09/26/08 I haven't installed it yet - But I can tell you I am completely happy with my HR20's a few issues here and there but honestly nothing to bitch about.

I don't sweat little nuisances as long as they fix them within a reasonable amount of time. Loosing TV signal completely would obviously be a big problem but that has only happened as a result of weather and never due to equipment failure...

I think people need to lighten up - as compared to Comcasts CS and equipment - D* is like Nirvana

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=140858

[Cabinwood]

I am truly trying to be objective here. I have 3 HR21's for about a month or so now. They have had to come and replace one of them after about two weeks. I could watch it live just fine, but all recordings were jumbled, even ones that I had previously watched ok. I guess the hard drive went?

I've had a number of problems with the others --

I have had two of them re-boot for no reason a number of times, both while watching live tv and while watching a recorded program.

It's not an issue now that new shows have started, but even though I told it "first run only", it was constantly recording old shows from last year.

I still really really miss the dual buffers:confused: After so long with having the dual buffers on my HDTivo's, it's very hard to do without them.

I am constantly having to turn off those blue lights. I have a HR21 in my bedroom and that thing lights up the room. I have no idea why it keeps coming back on full force :rolleyes:

I will say, though, the picture is lovely :up:

[stevel]

The lights will come back on a reboot.

I have had no problems at all with my two HR2x boxes.