Verzion, cable companies disagree over the future of set-top boxes

[morac]

See the article at ars technica (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080911-verizon-big-cable-in-tussle-over-future-of-set-top-boxes.html).

Both Verizon and the NTCA (http://www.ncta.com/) believe there should be an "all-provider" solution to allow consumers to use their own devices instead of a service provided one. The NTCA believes Tru2Way is the solution, but Verizon has stated that Tru2Way won't work on their system since they don't use the same VOD/PPV system as the cable companies. Verizon uses IPTV. Verizon and Intel both want a mandatory ether-net port on Tru2Way compliant devices.

NCTA boss Kyle McSlarrow stated that Tru2Way will indeed work on other systems as long they include a box that supports that service. "That is, a DirecTV set-top for DirecTV service, a Verizon set-top with Verizon service, or an AT&T set-top for AT&T service."

Verizon basically said that was stupid (though not in those words). Verizon stated that "a two-way solution that permits interactivity only in conjunction with a provider’s unique set-top box—particularly when the traditional cable incumbents would not need a set-top box for the same level of functionality—is no solution at all."

So Verizon wants a solution that would allow you to buy a device (say a TiVo) that would work with any service, be it cable, FIOS, U-Verse or Direct-TV. This would be the end of the set top box everywhere. The cable industry doesn't want to do that.

I'd like to see a TiVo that could work with any service so I agree with Verizon.

[dylanemcgregor]

I'd like to see a TiVo that could work with any service so I agree with Verizon.

+ a google

[cableguy763]

I'd also like for the sat companies and verizon to have to open up their systems to work with a tivo or cablecard like device like cable does.

[classicsat]

I think "requiring" box manufacturers to include IPTV compatibility is not just right. If a box manufacturer wants to make just a one way or a two-way cable only box, that is their business, especially with Tru2way very close, and nothing (I know of anyways) on the horizon for standards for 3rd party IPTV and satellite boxes.

On the other hand, the other standards (IPTV, satellite) should be there for a 3rd party box manufacturer build to, if they want to, and the obligation for providers to use the standards and allow 3rd party boxes.

[morac]

I'd also like for the sat companies and verizon to have to open up their systems to work with a tivo or cablecard like device like cable does.

Verizon says they want to support it, but that the current Tru2Way spec isn't fully compatible with their system.


I think "requiring" box manufacturers to include IPTV compatibility is not just right. If a box manufacturer wants to make just a one way or a two-way cable only box, that is their business, especially with Tru2way very close, and nothing (I know of anyways) on the horizon for standards for 3rd party IPTV and satellite boxes.

I think the point is to make boxes "future proof". I don't think they want IPTV compatibility to be required, only that the interface required for IPTV be in the specifications. After all it would be update to Verizon to write the Tru2Way code to actually do IPTV.

It's a lot easier to throw in a mandatory ethernet or USB port in now and add support for a IPTV later via software than it is to magically add an ethernet port to devices that have already been sold. :) Ethernet or USB ports are pretty cheap so they shouldn't add much to the cost to a product.

The Blu-Ray standard is a very good example of something that wasn't designed to be future proof. The original Blu-Ray standard did not require an ethernet port or storage. The Playstation 3 included both which is why it was very easy to upgrade it from Blu-Ray Profile 1.0 to Profile 2.0. If an ethernet port and storage was mandated as part of the original spec, all devices could have been updated instead of just the PS3.

A better example could be the CableCARD spec itself. If the CableCARD 1.0 had mandated a transmitter be in the hardware even without specifying how it would be used, then the TiVo HD models wouldn't require a tuning adapter to work with SDV. It would only require a software update.

[classicsat]

My point, basically, is not to hold back True2Way because it doesn't work with FIOS. It is long enough coming. Maybe have a True2Way Mark 2 in a few years, which may specify IPTV capability in a Tru2Way host.

Verizon and the other IPTV providers should make up their own organization, to develop a standard 3rd party boxes can use to weork with their services.

[mattack]

So Verizon wants a solution that would allow you to buy a device (say a TiVo) that would work with any service, be it cable, FIOS, U-Verse or Direct-TV. This would be the end of the set top box everywhere. The cable industry doesn't want to do that.

I'd like to see a TiVo that could work with any service so I agree with Verizon.

If the satellite companies didn't have *a waiver* from the CableCard requirement, then we would likely already have devices that work with OTA, cable, & small-dish satellite.
(It would "just" have another set of tuners, similar to the existing analog, ATSC, QAM tuners already extant... though such a theoretical box would presumably be obsolete as far as satellite as they're supposedly going MPEG-4.. that's something I have to confirm.. the HD & Home Theater podcast said they were going MPEG-4 soon.. but a friend with DirecTV has heard nothing about it.)

[wmcbrine]

My point, basically, is not to hold back True2Way because it doesn't work with FIOS.Can we instead hold it back because it's misconceived from top to bottom, and sucks in every way?

though such a theoretical box would presumably be obsolete as far as satellite as they're supposedly going MPEG-4..The Series 3 and TiVo HD were prepared for MPEG-4 from the beginning (at least in hardware -- the YouTube app marked the first time the software was ready).

that's something I have to confirm.. the HD & Home Theater podcast said they were going MPEG-4 soon.. but a friend with DirecTV has heard nothing about it.Um, they've been MPEG-4 for, what, over a year now? All the new HD channels are MPEG-4. They still have a few old MPEG-2 HDs, but they're turning them off, starting almost immediately. (SD channels are staying MPEG-2 for now.)

[lrhorer]

Can we instead hold it back because it's misconceived from top to bottom, and sucks in every way?
Are you kidding? That's the short definition of FCC. Why would they hold it back?

In all seriousness, it is definitely a mouse built by committee, but it doesn't quite suck in every way. Just several ways.

[lrhorer]

I'd also like for the sat companies and verizon to have to open up their systems to work with a tivo or cablecard like device like cable does.
Well, what I would like is for a group of independent electronics engineers to have gotten together 20 years ago, taken the suggestions of the CATV companies, 3rd party equipment manufacturers, CATV equipment manufactuers, and consumers, kept what they felt was economically and technically prudent, discarded the rest, and then produced a full-fledged, flexible specification for a 2-way separable security system. Then I would liked the FCC to have approved the spec and enacted laws requiring compliance by the year 2000 for all broadcasters, no matter what the medium.

[classicsat]

If the satellite companies didn't have *a waiver* from the CableCard requirement, then we would likely already have devices that work with OTA, cable, & small-dish satellite.

Probably. They would be premium devices though.

If satellite were open, and the open receiver market did catch on, the majority of devices would probably be non DVR straight satellite only receivers.

And given time, some of of those box manufacturers would make their own DVRs, HD receivers (with ATSC), and include MPEG4. Note the state of the FTA satellite receiver market (despite being primarily used be TV pirates these days). I figure add $50 to the sale price of them, you have the real market value of them.

If Cablecard caught on like it should have, you'd see the same for 3rd party cable boxes.


(It would "just" have another set of tuners, similar to the existing analog, ATSC, QAM tuners already extant... though such a theoretical box would presumably be obsolete as far as satellite as they're supposedly going MPEG-4..

They'd have to be fore-thinking, or have a short development cycle.

[classicsat]

It would be impossible, given differences in technology over time, apart from having a "Back box" which input the source and output raw A/V, which is next thing to having an STB from the provider anyways.

For satellite, if DirecTV were forced to be fully DVB compliant, Motorola were told no to Digicipher as a complete system, they could have had a removable card for satellite, like they do in Europe.

They couple have passed a law back before digital, that any digital communications or entertainment delivery system had to be open to 3rd party consumer hardware, before they even started.