Tivo becoming a rip off

[ms21117]

I was a TIVO devotee (if that's a word) until this week...now tIVO has become a rip off...here are the facts..I have a series 1, antenna, lifetime service. I've nursed this baby for 5 0r 6 years..no problems..in 2.09, digital arrives and I'm told my series 1 won't work and Tivo has decided not to write the 15 lines or so of code so my series 1 can "see" the digital channels (which I have converted back to analog thru a converter box (the one recommended on the TIVO site..)..so after much batteling, tivo agrees to sell me a SERIES 2 which they say will work and transfer my lifetime service to that box...I'm not real happy about this, but i pay the $ and get the box...needless to say it doesn't work...many tech calls later..still won't work..so i call and ask them to transfer the service back to my Series 1 (takes them 1 min to do) while I decide what I want to do, I'll probably end up buying (for $199) a HD Tivo that they are "sure" will work...many calls later, they can't transfer it back to my Series 1 and then to whatever new one I decide on because the "system" won't allow it (so says the supervisor)...so I now have a series 2 (that doesn't work) which i will return; and a series 1 that doesn't have service....alll because TIVO chose not to write the code for Series 1 boxes......does anyone have contacts higher in TIVO that one might contact???? Thanks!

[MikeMar]

1 - please use paragraphs
2 - define "won't work"
will it not boot up
not get a signal
can't record
smells funny
?

[Langree]

1 - please use paragraphs
2 - define "won't work"
will it not boot up
not get a signal
can't record
smells funny
?

What he said.

and $199 for a THD is a lot less then I paid.

[sinanju]

Somewhere, someone is complaining that their crystal radio, that they paid good money for, won't get XM or Sirius and they can't figure out their new fangled radio.

[mattack]

I was a TIVO devotee (if that's a word) until this week...now tIVO has become a rip off...here are the facts..I have a series 1, antenna, lifetime service. I've nursed this baby for 5 0r 6 years..no problems..in 2.09, digital arrives and I'm told my series 1 won't work and Tivo has decided not to write the 15 lines or so of code

Umm, you got "5 or 6 years" out of the lifetime service. That's pretty good, IMHO.

Other people have mentioned that there was some sort of deal for people who ONLY got OTA.

(BTW, even though I have cable, the digital transition is largely why I took advantage of the two "transfer lifetime" opportunities.. though in retrospect, the S3 offer ended up being kind of a bad deal to me... though I do like the S3's OLED faceplate.)

[wmcbrine]

3 - don't double post this

[newskilz]

Hopefully in your case, you can get someone to fix things for you. Curious as to why you didn't pay a little extra $ and get the TiVo HD with built in dual tuners? Assuming that you are truly on antenna only, the HD w/lifetime transfer would be $400. Antenna TiVo upgrade offers (http://www3.tivo.com/form-apps/show.do?pg=/setupandsupport/digitaltrans/digitaltrans.html) Or did they hook you up with a better deal for the lifetime transfer?

Not wanting to fork over the money is understandable, one reason why I still have my perfectly fine and working S1 (Ssssshhhh, don't let it hear that, it's been working without a hitch for 7 years now)

Well... ok. My personal thinking would have been just keep the series 1 with the converter box tuning for you. You are only missing the sub-channels, and they are largely things like weather radar, live cams, more news (like there isn't enough already), etc. So what would you be missing anyway?? My thinking is keep the S1 or go for the TiVo HD or HD XL, why stop with something that is still sorta out dated like the S2 if you are trying to upgrade in the first place?

I guess I don't get it myself. I can get all the main channels OTA with no problems, crystal clear and have plenty of recording space since I'm not locked into the whole HD recording, where it records in one quality mode only; MAX! The IR blasters work perfectly fine for me.

So my question is if I may, if the S1 was working fine, why upgrade to just an S2?

Ah, for the days when the TiVo could do over the air, cable, and satellite, or a mix of them. :( At least we should be getting a satellite TiVo next year, even if it is "only through DirecTV".

I am just curious, thus my questions that have been my own thoughts concerning my S1, so I hope you see it that way and know that I wasn't in any way trying to attack you personally, even though I am asking all these questions. :) Again, hope all works out for you. I'd think they would have to fix things right since you are not getting the promised products and services with your purchase agreement.

[ms21117]

wow..feels like we are a little defensive...maybe...in answer to your questions- won't work means won't recognize the digital sub channels; I only went to a series 2 because the Tivo tech people said that's what i needed to do; my definition of "Lifetime Service"is Lifetime...maybe I'm crazy; lastly, Tivo used to be a great cutting edge company, great customer service, reasonable to deal with, no problems...until now...does anyone know #'s of anyone higher in the Tivo company?? Thanks

[Langree]

At least you're being reasonable.


:rolleyes:

[bicker]

4 - Unsubscribe from the TiVo service. That'll show 'em!

[MikeMar]

wow..feels like we are a little defensive...maybe...in answer to your questions- won't work means won't recognize the digital sub channels; I only went to a series 2 because the Tivo tech people said that's what i needed to do; my definition of "Lifetime Service"is Lifetime...maybe I'm crazy; lastly, Tivo used to be a great cutting edge company, great customer service, reasonable to deal with, no problems...until now...does anyone know #'s of anyone higher in the Tivo company?? Thanks

1 - paragraphs please!

2 - can you see the digital sub channels WITHOUT the tivo box?
trying to trouble shoot here and make sure it's the Tivo that is not working.

Can you bring it to a friends house and try there, help determine if it's the Tivo box or your setup.

You did the whole guided setup right?

[ZeoTiVo]

wow..feels like we are a little defensive...maybe...in answer to your questions- won't work means won't recognize the digital sub channels; I only went to a series 2 because the Tivo tech people said that's what i needed to do; my definition of "Lifetime Service"is Lifetime...maybe I'm crazy; lastly, Tivo used to be a great cutting edge company, great customer service, reasonable to deal with, no problems...until now...does anyone know #'s of anyone higher in the Tivo company?? Thanks

What antenna and convertor are you using on the Series 2?

personally, if it was me I would have gone for a Tivo HD with the transfer of lifetime. The TiVo HD has MUCH better picture quality and can also record the many HD shows out on OTA as well. Very limiting to keep trying old tech on a new digital system.

[jlb]

Happy Friday!

[WhiskeyTango]

my definition of "Lifetime Service"is Lifetime...maybe I'm crazy;

Not crazy, just ill informed. Lifetime Service is the lifetime of the box, not you. You can't just transfer the service willy nilly. They likely only allowed the transfer because S1's subbed before a certain date are given a 1 time transfer. Since you used that to move to the S2, you are out of luck. If the box is not doing what it is supposed to, Tivo should take it back and replace it with a working unit.

Also, if you provide some more info on your setup, there are people here willing to try to help you if you really want it. If you want to just come here and throw stones, expect more "defensive" posts.

[classicsat]

Which Series 2 did they give you? You do know they probably cannot supply antenna capable ones anymore.

TiVo is a good deal, if you know what to get.

BTW, TiVo did offer Product Lifetime transfers to the HD models in the past , and may have some deal for OTA users. It is not their fault you failed to take them up on any of those offers.

[Jonathan_S]

my definition of "Lifetime Service"is Lifetime...Which means you didn't read or didn't agree with the definition TiVo printed on the Series 1 box and included literature. If you've had your TiVo for 5 or 6 years, then you got it 2 or 3 years after TiVo clarified that the 'lifetime' was the lifetime of the subcribed TiVo and not the lifetime of the TiVo's owner.

[for lifetime service purshased pre Jan-21, 2000 TiVo agreed that the wording might be confusing and TiVo offered a those owners a perminate "grandfathered" deal for one time free transfer of service to a new TiVo.]

[ToddNeedsTiVo]

Have the TiVo-branded Series 2 units received their software updates to officially control the CECBs yet? My mother currently uses one OTA only, and I'd like to see how it behaves with the converter box.

[wmcbrine]

won't work means won't recognize the digital sub channelsThat still doesn't quite explain it. Did you have the 9.3.1 TiVo software on it? That's the first version of the software for the Series 2 that handles subchannels. It wouldn't come with a new Series 2 -- you'd have to wait a day or two for it to be downloaded. Also, subchannels still won't work on a 2DT, even with 9.3.1 (but neither will any OTA channels). Hopefully TiVo had more sense than to direct you to a 2DT, but those are the only new Series 2's they still sell.

Next, did you have it hooked up to an analog/digital converter box? You haven't mentioned that. The Series 2 can't tune digital OTA on its own, regardless of the software version. But you can get a coupon-eligible converter box for under $20 after coupon. (You get the coupon from the government.) Not all models are supported by the TiVo; see here for the list (http://www3.tivo.com/form-apps/show.do?pg=/setupandsupport/digitaltrans/digitaltrans.html#digitalTransitionConverterBoxes). I see now that you did mention this.

[ms21117]

as it all turns out - the series 2 thay have now won't work w antenna (the older ones w/ 540 numbers do). Tivo is taking back the series 2 they sent.

Lifetime service should not end simply because Tivo chooses not to write the code so that Series 1 machines can read the digital subchannels (yes, they can be seen by the TV set, but not the Tivo box)

The software updates for the series 2 needs to be the 9.___ C; which may work on the older 540 series models, but not on any others.

I still hold my position, maybe others on this site were not w/ Tivo in the "good old days" when they were reasonable to deal with..but, that's just my opinion and shows what can happen when a monopoly like situation is in existance....

[classicsat]

They are getting the update right now. Both mine have it, one from the Priority list, the other on its own, just the other day.

[classicsat]

Lifetime service should not end simply because Tivo chooses not to write the code so that Series 1 machines can read the digital subchannels (yes, they can be seen by the TV set, but not the Tivo box)

It doesn't. It just means that TiVo won't work with Antenna anymore. As long as that box physically works (despite not being compatible with a new source), its Product Lifetime is still good.

The software updates for the series 2 needs to be the 9.___ C; which may work on the older 540 series models, but not on any others.


The update is 9.3.1, and is going to all Series 2 TiVos.
It is just that only those originally antenna capable will have the "Antenna with box" option added to guided setup.


I still hold my position, maybe others on this site were not w/ Tivo in the "good old days" when they were reasonable to deal with..but, that's just my opinion and shows what can happen when a monopoly like situation is in existance....

TiVo isn't a Monopoly. There are plenty of other DVR solutions out there. You made your money on that box. TiVo owes you nothing.

[ZeoTiVo]

as it all turns out - the series 2 thay have now won't work w antenna (the older ones w/ 540 numbers do). Tivo is taking back the series 2 they sent.

Lifetime service should not end simply because Tivo chooses not to write the code so that Series 1 machines can read the digital subchannels (yes, they can be seen by the TV set, but not the Tivo box).
they did not end nor change the functionality on the series 1. It still does everything it did when you got the lifetime.
The outside technology changed - no more analog channels on OTA.
TiVo very reasonably tried to update you to a box that could do digital OTA but the CSR goofed up. That is the change that has happened. TiVo had to outsource CSR as opposed to the in house folks they had in early days with far fewer things to keep track of.

You got some bad first advice, so try again. Perhaps if you find your own 540 or 240 model TiVo will transfer lifetime to that? frankly many companies would have just said you have to buy our new model TiVo HD and not even added some code to the series 2. So I think TiVo is still being very reasonable in what they are trying to do to help out OTA folks and you just had a bad first round of it.

[parzec]

I think the OP is reasonable in his expectaions insofar as Tivo should be able to transfer the Lifetime back to the Series 1 without question. Personally, I am disappointed with the attitude so many Tivo Groupees take when Tivo screws over a customer. I love Tivo, but tire of the appologists always defending every negative action Tivo takes against a customer.

[ZeoTiVo]

I think the OP is reasonable in his expectaions insofar as Tivo should be able to transfer the Lifetime back to the Series 1 without question. Personally, I am disappointed with the attitude so many Tivo Groupees take when Tivo screws over a customer. I love Tivo, but tire of the appologists always defending every negative action Tivo takes against a customer.


umm - it was said that TiVo screwed up the first time - in a pretty clueless way i would add - and of course they need to get the OP back to a useable lifetime on his series 1 while he figures out next step. no one has defended that at all - who would defend TiVo sending a DVR that can not accept OTA as a fix for trying to do digital OTA. :rolleyes:

The OP also thinks TiVo should enable the series 1 for digital OTA and some here, myself included, think it unreasonable to expect that.

If it was me they had done that to, I would be getting TiVo to transfer my lifetime to a Tivo HD they sold me for 199$ as a way to make up for the first round of nonsense.

[parzec]

Zeo, I agree with all you said in the above post. To clarify my position: I noticed at the biginning of this thread that people seemed rude, sarcastic, and pugnacious instead of acknowledging the obvious wrong done to the poster regarding the lifetime transfer. TGIF.

[ZeoTiVo]

Zeo, I agree with all you said in the above post. To clarify my position: I noticed at the biginning of this thread that people seemed rude, sarcastic, and pugnacious instead of acknowledging the obvious wrong done to the poster regarding the lifetime transfer. TGIF.

cool, I can see where you are coming from on that.

[TechDreamer]

Tivo is letting us transfer Series 1 Lifetime to a Series 2 ? Did I miss the news ?

[steve614]

No, from what I gather, a clueless CSR offered a deal to the OP for a lifetime x-fer from his S1 that he uses OTA to an S2 that doesn't do OTA.

D'OH !!

Edit: Or did you just forget to put the 'wink' smiley? :D

[restart88]

Somewhere, someone is complaining that their crystal radio, that they paid good money for, won't get XM or Sirius and they can't figure out their new fangled radio.

Mine works just fine. You just have to add a jack to receive the feed. :p

I think the OP has a right to gripe. All he wanted is his old unit to be turned back on while awaiting a replacement for an apparently defective unit they sent. That's not too much to ask for from a long time Tivo subscriber.

[bicker]

Lifetime service should not end simply because Tivo chooses not to write the code so that Series 1 machines can read the digital subchannelsIt doesn't. The box does what you bought it for. The problem is that you no longer live in an area where you need it to do that. That's on you, not on the people who sold that box sometime in the past.

With respect, it sounds like you have unreasonable expectations.

[bicker]

I think the OP is reasonable in his expectaions insofar as Tivo should be able to transfer the Lifetime back to the Series 1 without question. Personally, I am disappointed with the attitude so many Tivo Groupees take when Tivo screws over a customer. I love Tivo, but tire of the appologists always defending every negative action Tivo takes against a customer.I think the enmity you've expressed towards folks who take a reasonable perspective with regard to how customers should be treated is the source of the problem. They're not "apologists" and it is a direct PERSONAL insult for you to assert that, labeling THEM rather than the what they're saying. That contribution is wholly and completely inappropriate for an online forum, and again, like I said, the source of the problem. You owe everyone a big apology.

I think a lot of consumers get blinded by a sense that everything should be biased in the consumer's favor. They forget that many people in this country are investors and business owners, and therefore, to protect those interest, the law is that there should be fairness for both sides in a business transaction, an equal balance, rather than blind and exclusive bias towards consumers.

[ms21117]

Wow...I must admit I am surprised at the "rude, sarcastic, and pugnacious " responses I have rec'd (thanks Parzek)...It feels like I hit a hot button...

It clarifies a lot that Zeo said they outsourced their CSR....never a good thing and explains a lot. Some of the responses here sound like they may be from Tivo employees defending their turf...

As to bicker and some others...personal attacks...you've got to be kidding. ..Tivo screwed up, I pointed it out, you personally attacked....I have a strong desire to say "grow up" but that would be a personal attack so I won't...

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned this chapter is closed, I forked over the money for the HD model that will receive antenna (hopefully)...and for any employees responding here...pls take CS back in house..........

[bradleys]

ms21117 - Consumer electronics all have a "usable lifetime". You have gotten a lifetime well beyond the norm with your series 1. Good for you...

I guess the reason I and others do not feel so sorry for you is that your expectations are unrealistic and you seem, in your post anyway, very uncompromising. After reading your post, my first thought was "that poor CSR agent!"

1- The series 1 is no longer a supported platform for upgrades - done.
2 -The Series 2 is not a good investment because it is already an old platform.
3- The TIVO HD is a different animal and comes with its own advantages and challenges.

I hope you enjoy your new system, but if TIVO is no longer appealing to you there are other options.

[bicker]

As to bicker and some others...personal attacks...you've got to be kidding. ..Not at all. Read what I wrote, with regard to what I was actually referring to.

Tivo screwed up, I pointed it out, you personally attacked...Uh, bud. What are you talking about? I posted, "4 - Unsubscribe from the TiVo service. That'll show 'em!" In what frame of perspective is that a personal attack? The comments of mine that you were replying to were in reference to the messages other folks posted in response to your messages.

If you've come to an online forum to have folks kowtow in agreement with you, then you should reconsider. This is a healthy discussion forum, where people both agree and disagree with each other.

[Adam1115]

as it all turns out - the series 2 thay have now won't work w antenna (the older ones w/ 540 numbers do). Tivo is taking back the series 2 they sent.

Lifetime service should not end simply because Tivo chooses not to write the code so that Series 1 machines can read the digital subchannels (yes, they can be seen by the TV set, but not the Tivo box)

The software updates for the series 2 needs to be the 9.___ C; which may work on the older 540 series models, but not on any others.

I still hold my position, maybe others on this site were not w/ Tivo in the "good old days" when they were reasonable to deal with..but, that's just my opinion and shows what can happen when a monopoly like situation is in existance....

It's not TiVo's fault that the government made it illegal for them to continue selling the Series 2 as an NTSC OTA receiver, even though they could make it control a converter box. It's also not their responsibility to reprogram old models to support new technologies. You also have no idea that it would only be 15 lines of code. And it's very unlikely that there are a lot of OTA only users, meaning the box may not be able to control both a OTA converter and a cable box.

But TiVo shouldn't have sold you a Series 2 and it sounds like they are taking it back.

They are getting the update right now. Both mine have it, one from the Priority list, the other on its own, just the other day.

You don't have a newer series 2 sold in the past year that doesn't support OTA at all. Those boxes will not get the update.

I think the OP is reasonable in his expectaions insofar as Tivo should be able to transfer the Lifetime back to the Series 1 without question. Personally, I am disappointed with the attitude so many Tivo Groupees take when Tivo screws over a customer. I love Tivo, but tire of the appologists always defending every negative action Tivo takes against a customer.

The OP said TiVo is taking back the Series 2, so problem solved.

[classicsat]

All Series 2s, DTs and 542 models, are in fact getting the update, for whatever reason. They simple will not have the "antenna with box" option added.

[ZeoTiVo]

It clarifies a lot that Zeo said they outsourced their CSR....never a good thing and explains a lot. Some of the responses here sound like they may be from Tivo employees defending their turf... there are 3 TiVo employees who post here, none in this thread so far, and they are clearly posting as TiVo employees. So the posts here are just people and their opinions.
Anyway, as far as I'm concerned this chapter is closed, I forked over the money for the HD model that will receive antenna (hopefully)...and for any employees responding here...pls take CS back in house..........

I have TiVo HD and bought a 30$ antenna from Circuit City that picks up some of the channels. The setup works great. Check out http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx for info to help with a digital antenna.