Teleworld Paid Program in Now Playing

[DaveLessnau]

Well, this seems to be new. This morning, I went to Now Playing and found a "Teleworld Paid Program" sitting at the top of the list. It had some weird four color circle icon next to it. I know TiVo gets some of its information from these types of things. But, this is the first I've ever seen the actual program sitting there. I see from the nifty "Similar Threads" box here that this kind of thing has been happening with the Series3. Is this a fine, new benefit we Series2 owners get from the latest software update? Is there any way to turn it off (besides turning off the Discovery Channel (I've got to write them a message about this, too))?

[etz]

yea, my S2 has the Teleworld garbage in the NP too. I didn't like it one bit, but I assumed it was some sort of one-time mistake and so I just deleted it it and went about my business. Let's hope it doesnt happen on a regular basis.

[wmcbrine]

I deleted it, and it didn't even appear in the Recently Deleted folder.

[esjones]

I just got a refurb TiVo HD this week (my second TiVo) and was surprised to see this program on the Now Playing list. At first, I assumed that it was some Series 3 platform "feature" I hadn't heard about. I'm glad there is already a discussion going on here! Now I know (a) that this is most likely some sort of aberration; and (b) that it's safe to just delete the darned thing......

[DaveLessnau]

Since this thing came across on Discovery, I emailed them a comment letting them know I was removing their channel from my system and letting them know they should talk to TiVo if they don't like it. Maybe I was a lost cause from the point of view of their standard advertisements. But, still, they had product placement ads that now have one fewer set of eyeballs (Ford trucks on "Dirty Jobs").

[funkyjunkman]

My Tivo S2 recorded this as well. It looks like a bunch of promos that Tivo normally records and splices into the main page ads. I will also assume it's a one-time screwup.

[Bierboy]

My S3 had it as well...just deleted w/o checking it. Assuming it was a one-time screwup by somebody.

[alyssa]

I received this program too. I've got two S3 running 9.4-01 and both of them have the program in question.
I checked in the todo list/recording history page & do not see a listing for the recording. My recording started at 3:33am est.
I am currently an opt-in for privacy policy. I've also signed up for the "your opinion counts' survey thingy.
eta "tivo adviser' is the words I was looking for.

I can only hope it's a one time screw up-

[ZeoTiVo]

Since this thing came across on Discovery, I emailed them a comment letting them know I was removing their channel from my system and letting them know they should talk to TiVo if they don't like it. Maybe I was a lost cause from the point of view of their standard advertisements. But, still, they had product placement ads that now have one fewer set of eyeballs (Ford trucks on "Dirty Jobs").

kind of extreme for what may well be a glitch. I highly doubt TiVo is going to start landing shows like teleworld in the now playing list on purpose.

[rckstrang]

kind of extreme for what may well be a glitch. I highly doubt TiVo is going to start landing shows like teleworld in the now playing list on purpose.

I agree. All you have to do is uncheck the channel on your channel list.

I hope it was just a glitch. It happened to me as well with all they symptons everyone else mentioned. No mention of it in the To Do List history. Very odd.

[alyssa]

I sent a quick PM to tivopony asking him to address this. I included a link to this thread so hopefully he'll post an explanation.
I too am thinking 'glitch'.

[matt@thehickmans]

This is a new and unwanted form of spam. If TiVo wants to do this, they should stick it under "showcases".

I did give the OK to be a TiVo advisor. I hope that didn't mean I gave a blanket OK for this kind of thing. If so, how do I opt out?

[ZeoTiVo]

This is a new and unwanted form of spam. If TiVo wants to do this, they should stick it under "showcases".

I did give the OK to be a TiVo advisor. I hope that didn't mean I gave a blanket OK for this kind of thing. If so, how do I opt out?

again, this is likely a glitch and not expected behavior. The teleworld has actually been recorded by your DVR for as long as you have had it. The recording goes into TiVo's operating system space and does not take up any of your recording space nor should it ever appear in now playing.
various parts of the teleworld recording show up under the showcase as say TV guides video of what to watch this week or the american express ad or new Film trailer.


The TiVo advisor thing likely has nothing to do with it at all.

[pdhenry]

This is a new and unwanted form of spam. If TiVo wants to do this, they should stick it under "showcases". ;)

I got it too. I actually FF'd through it to see if there was anything interesting (there wasn't, but if you're a Shanan fan there's a few minutes of her playing with Rhapsody).

[FourOhFour]

This is a new and unwanted form of spam. If TiVo wants to do this, they should stick it under "showcases".

I did give the OK to be a TiVo advisor. I hope that didn't mean I gave a blanket OK for this kind of thing. If so, how do I opt out?

It's probably a bug. The Teleworld Paid Program is something the TiVo records every so often (nightly? weekly? I don't remember), and contains the stuff that appears in the showcases. There's another one that contains encoded guide data so you don't have to download so much over the phone.

I have no idea why it'd suddenly start appearing in Now Playing. I also have no idea why they have a special icon for it if it isn't supposed to appear.

http://img.skitch.com/20080911-8s9t8g334dp8rrxh622agrdx95.preview.jpg (http://skitch.com/fourohfour/ispr/slingplayer-my-slingbox)
Click for full size (http://skitch.com/fourohfour/ispr/slingplayer-my-slingbox) - Uploaded with plasq (http://plasq.com)'s Skitch (http://skitch.com)

[matt@thehickmans]

So this is where the showcase videos come from. I did a FF through the program before deleting it and it does look like something that could be divided up into the promos TiVo puts in showcases, Rhapsody, 90210, Sons of Anarchy all had pieces I would expect to see in showcase.

[RoyK]

I got it on two out of three of my S2 boxes also. I noticed when I did my weekly cancellation of recordings upcoming teleworld programs the other day that one of them was marked with that strange icon and wondered what it was. I canceled the recording as I always do but it recorded in spite of that.

Those who know my feelings about TiVo's spamming don't need me to comment further than to say it better have been a glitch......

[LoREvanescence]

Well, I didn't get this on my S3. But my parents DirectTV got it, all I can think of is it was some kind of glitch.

[Toni]

Got it on all three of my S2 boxes this morning. Chiming in with my hope that this is a one-time error, and I hope someone "official" checks into the thread soon with further info.

[DaveLessnau]

I'd hope it was just a one-time mistake. But, since the show has it's own icon next to it (I don't recall seeing it on anything else, before), that makes me think it's another "feature."

[TiVoPony]

Hey guys, we're very much aware of this and it was just a one time glitch. Very sorry about it, you may delete that recording!

The team is off now to tweak the processes in place so that this doesn't happen again.

Thanks,
Pony

[Toni]

Thanks for the update, Pony.

[DaveLessnau]

Looks like I was wrong. Thanks for the update.

[tewcewl]

I was just about to write in about this. I knew what it was and assumed it was a glitch. But now I know which channel airs it! :)

Still, was kinda interesting to see a new icon on my TiVo this morning.

Dave, why were you complaining about the Discovery Channel airing this? Many stations go off-line in the late evening and air paid programs. This is no different.

[scandia101]

I was hoping this was a new way to get people to look at ads that they'd normally ignore - for two reasons.
1. More eyes on the ads means more money for TiVo
2. All of the whining about it that would be done here, would be very entertaining.

I saw this thread and checked my Tivos. I thought I got left out because my 240 didn't have it and then my 540 didn't have it and then I checked the DT and there it was. I was included afterall.:)

[DaveLessnau]

I was just about to write in about this. I knew what it was and assumed it was a glitch. But now I know which channel airs it! :)

Still, was kinda interesting to see a new icon on my TiVo this morning.

Dave, why were you complaining about the Discovery Channel airing this? Many stations go off-line in the late evening and air paid programs. This is no different.

I wasn't blaming Discovery. I just let them know that I was removing the channel from my setup because of the broadcast that came across their channel (as a consumer, I don't know the mechanics of how these things work -- I just see the broadcast as coming across the Discovery Channel). If they care, then I'm leaving it up to them to sort it out with TiVo or Cox or whomever. Since no one particularly cares what I think about TiVo pushing advertisements on us, I'm leaving it to the people with big bucks at stake to work it out.

In general terms (not just related to this event), I just wanted to make sure the financially interested parties knew about the problem so they could think about whether:

- the money Discovery makes by carrying the Teleworld program is enough to cover the loss of eyeballs from upset consumers, and

- the money TiVo makes from pushing advertisements at us is enough to cover the loss they see from trying to handle the flak from knee-biters like me and important entities (i.e., money-sources) like Discovery.

[esjones]

Since this thing came across on Discovery, I emailed them a comment letting them know I was removing their channel from my system and letting them know they should talk to TiVo if they don't like it. Maybe I was a lost cause from the point of view of their standard advertisements. But, still, they had product placement ads that now have one fewer set of eyeballs (Ford trucks on "Dirty Jobs").

Dave, what is your objection to product placements, or to Discovery Channel selling time to TiVo in the wee small hours of the morning? :confused:

[Test]

Weird, but now it makes sense. I was setting up a wishlist search a few days ago and I saw that I had one made for "TELEWORLD" I didn't know what it was or why it was there, so I searched for upcoming showings and saw two for today. They were something like 3:30 and 4:00 am. I chose to record them, one did it just like a regular show the second one I chose to record and it said record as planned, so I cancelled the recording and set it to record again. Totally forgot about it till today, I saw two shows in a TELEWORLD folder, I watched them, saw all the tivo stuff and remembered I set up this wishlist after I saw some other thread here about it. So I guess that was the screw up? Are they suppose to be "Record as planned" or not?

I did the same thing just now and there are two more showings set for 9/18 and they are both record as planned.

[flyersfan]

ISince no one particularly cares what I think about TiVo pushing advertisements on us, I'm leaving it to the people with big bucks at stake to work it out.



Utterly ridiculous. Advertising has been part of the Tivo from day 1, and with over 1200 posts & membership here since 2000 you obviously know this by now. They didn't make you watch the ad, they didn't take away any of your recording space to get the ad, and Pony already acknowledged it was a mistake for it to show up in the Now Playing list.

It's ludicrous agendas like yours that give DVR consumers a bad name. I hope the networks don't only hear from extremists like you.

[vstone]

...The recording goes into TiVo's operating system space and does not take up any of your recording space nor should it ever appear in now playing.
...
This program was over 1GB, so I doubt it was in the OS partition. Although anything can and will happen with computer programming, I'm a liitle worried that this particular event could happen. It may be a sign of a very flexible SW design, a very poor software design, or a purposeful capability that's never been exercised before.

contents:
8 minutes of 90210 propagada
pedegg commercial
goduster commercial
balkin aid relief foundation commercial for land rover
another landrover commercial
yet another land rover commercial
6 minutes of Sons of Anarchy propaganda
Tivo wireless adapter ad
Tivo - Rhapsody ad
3 more minutes on 90210

No I didn't sit theu thsi stuff.

Did not show up on my S2, which DSC disabled.

[rocko]

This program was over 1GB, so I doubt it was in the OS partition. Although anything can and will happen with computer programming, I'm a liitle worried that this particular event could happen. It may be a sign of a very flexible SW design, a very poor software design, or a purposeful capability that's never been exercised before.

contents:
8 minutes of 90210 propagada
pedegg commercial
goduster commercial
balkin aid relief foundation commercial for land rover
another landrover commercial
yet another land rover commercial
6 minutes of Sons of Anarchy propaganda
Tivo wireless adapter ad
Tivo - Rhapsody ad
3 more minutes on 90210

No I didn't sit theu thsi stuff.

Did not show up on my S2, which DSC disabled.

Like TiVoPony said, this was a mistake. There is no good reason to remove Discovery from your channel lineup - unless you just don't want it for other reasons.

[steve614]

My Tivos didn't record this.

Either because

my guide data doesn't actually say Teleworld Paid Program.

There was no video signal (bad reception on the channel that carries it).

I have suggestions turned off.


I wonder which? If I had to guess, it would be because of no video signal.

[westside_guy]

I seem to recall that I used to get these semi-regularly back when I was a participant in one of their beta software programs.

Er, I mean I heard from this guy, who was one of their beta testers, that he would see this in his "Now Playing" list somewhat regularly. Yeah, that's it.

Anyway, even without TivoPony's confirmation... I'd write this off as a glitch.

[sieglinde]

I got it and thought it was weird and maybe a just an ad for 90202 or whatever the zip code is because I watched about the first 10 seconds of it.

My delete works great. Didn't bother me.

[Rob Helmerichs]

The sky is falling!

No, wait.

WOLF!!

(Or is the sky just falling?)

[tough joe]

Ok - my vote is to stop beating this dead horse. Pony said it was a glitch. Good enough for me. It is a computer after all - we should all be lucky its not running Windows!

[DaveLessnau]

Utterly ridiculous. Advertising has been part of the Tivo from day 1, and with over 1200 posts & membership here since 2000 you obviously know this by now. They didn't make you watch the ad, they didn't take away any of your recording space to get the ad, and Pony already acknowledged it was a mistake for it to show up in the Now Playing list.

It's ludicrous agendas like yours that give DVR consumers a bad name. I hope the networks don't only hear from extremists like you.

LOL!

[classicsat]

Enhanced content does not get recorded into the OS partition, it goes in the normal recording partitions, just in space TiVo reserves for that purpose.

The noise the likes of DaveLessnau makes makes no dent in the big picture if they boycott the channels that are contracted to air the paid content, or the TiVo product itself, or the advertisers that choose to advertise on the service.

[RoyK]

Enhanced content
another euphemism for spam

does not get recorded into the OS partition, it goes in the normal recording partitions, just in space TiVo reserves for that purpose.

In other words TiVo uses disk space which reduces the amount of space the customer has to record his programs. IOW he buys a piece of equipment but in order to use it he must agree to give some of it back whether or not he wants spam recorded on it. (yeah I know - they tell you -- big of them)


The noise the likes of DaveLessnau makes makes no dent in the big picture if they boycott the channels that are contracted to air the paid content, or the TiVo product itself, or the advertisers that choose to advertise on the service.

There I also disagree. Additionally the 'noise' is seen by prospective customers and I know personally several who have been influenced in the negative after reading about TiVo advertising and seeing it in person.

[Da Goon]

In other words TiVo uses disk space which reduces the amount of space the customer has to record his programs. IOW he buys a piece of equipment but in order to use it he must agree to give some of it back whether or not he wants spam recorded on it. (yeah I know - they tell you -- big of them)

where's the "crying" smily when you need it

welcome to 21st century capitalist america

[haymoose]

My wife watched the whole thing, now I'll bet we keep getting them. If this is a new marketing thing, PLEASE TiVo just have one of my TiVo's record it rather than all three? Also, If this is a new way to pay the bills, can i just pay more up front to keep this crap off?

[RoyK]

My wife watched the whole thing, now I'll bet we keep getting them. If this is a new marketing thing, PLEASE TiVo just have one of my TiVo's record it rather than all three? Also, If this is a new way to pay the bills, can i just pay more up front to keep this crap off?

I believe TiVoPony when he said it was a 'glitch' aka screwup. I can't believe they are dumb enough to do that on purpose.

[DaveLessnau]

Since the thread has already degenerated into name-calling, I guess this little parable I wrote won't make things any worse:

A Parable

A person was having trouble finding his regular dairy products and was also interested in finding some new, fresh dairy products. His busy schedule wouldn't allow him to visit the various dairy farms to which he had access and get and prepare the products before they went bad. Plus, he really didn't enjoy one of the unfortunate by-products of a dairy farm that was in overabundance on his visits: cow poo. So, he hired a start-up dairy delivery company that met all his needs to get those products to him "his way." Heck, the company was so grateful for the business, it allowed him to buy a lifetime subscription which, amortized over the years, was a great investment for him, but, in the long term, probably a mistake for them.

For several years, he was extremely happy (he even bought stock in the delivery company). But, then, he started getting updates to his delivery method that weren't all to his liking: the poo was coming back. At first, it was just a small gold-starred, hermetically-sealed, poo-containing present placed between him and his milk box. When he asked about this, everyone ridiculed him and told him that poo had always been part of the delivery company's business and that it was necessary to distribute the poo or the company and the dairy farmers, themselves, would go out of business. Besides, he didn't have to open the present and it didn't take any space from his products since it was really sitting over in his compost heap and that it was just a holographic image pointing to the compost heap that he was seeing. Being a reasonable person, he decided that was ok.

After a while of ignoring the little presents, he started to also get little green-thumbed notes in his egg-cartons and milk bottles. They asked him to let the delivery company know if he wanted a particular variety of poo that was related to the kind of product he was looking at. If he let them know, they'd be happy to deliver this poo straight to him. When he asked about this, everyone once again ridiculed him and told him about poo-delivery and day-one and business models. Apparently, gold-starred poo presents weren't profitable enough, so they were adding these green-thumbed notes. Besides, he could just ignore them if he didn't want the poo.

Again, after a while, he started finding little sealed sections of poo at the bottom of his milk bottles. Ditto on the ridicule, day-one, business models, and not having to open the section.

Then, one day, as he was trying to quickly skim through his supply of cheese to see if any of it was worth consuming, the products themselves emitted a huge yellow box of Norton poo that prevented him from seeing his very own products. After the same ridicule and song and dance by the "community," the delivery company noted that this was actually a mistake. Some cows had snuck in and thought they were getting people to "EAT MOR CHIKIN" and had made a mistake.

Finally, one day, he went out to his milk box to get his daily delivery and found an amalgamation of loose poo sitting in the box right in amongst his normal products. This particular pile o' poo had a pretty, never-seen-before, four-colored tag next to it and a nice label saying which particular dairy farm it came from. This time, as well as enduring the standard ad hominem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem) attacks and party-line story, he wrote a note to the dairy farm on the note saying he was stopping delivery of all their products because he didn't like poo in his produce. He could tolerate it in his compost heap, but not in his very own milk box. As he was tired of the slings and arrows and it was the dairy farm and the delivery company with the money at risk, he was leaving it to them to sort it out. Of course, once again, this poo delivery turned out to be a mistake. Some gremlins had snuck in and mis-delivered the poo, so the dairy delivery customer was once more told he was fool to have brought the whole thing up.

[Marcusceti]

Glitch... /whew

The thing that bothered me was that I already had the Teleworld thing thumbs-downed, I was under the impression that thumbs-down programs won't record.

Ah well, it's gone now.

[vstone]

Like TiVoPony said, this was a mistake. There is no good reason to remove Discovery from your channel lineup - unless you just don't want it for other reasons.I don't argue that it is a mistake. DSC is removed from my S2 because I record the HD version on my S3. However, it was not obvious to me before that, other than using the Tivo site, that the Tivo could or would be instructed to record 1.29 GB of data that I had not requested.

[sinanju]

In other words TiVo uses disk space which reduces the amount of space the customer has to record his programs. IOW he buys a piece of equipment but in order to use it he must agree to give some of it back whether or not he wants spam recorded on it. (yeah I know - they tell you -- big of them)

I'll bet my lucky nickle that your TiVo's system information screen, from actual examination of the disk, is reporting more available recording space than you paid for based on the text on the outside of the box.

If so, are you prepared to send a proportionate amount of money to TiVo for the extra capacity?

[mattack]

My Tivos didn't record this.

Either because

You left out another option -- you already had a program scheduled for that time.

[greggt007]

the conspiracy theorist in me thinks this is a sign of things to come...it will become my yahoo inbox, delete 10 things in my NPL to watch one show i'm interested in. oh well, i didnt get tivo to evade the marketing machine or nothing.
it also seemed weird the beginning mentioned, basically, "this is from tivo for tivo users".

and if they realized the mistake, why not remove it from our systems? surely they have that capability

[ZeoTiVo]

At first, it was just a small gold-starred, hermetically-sealed, poo-containing present .

this thread is certainly full of poo. On that I can agree.
I would say it was wrapped in tinfoil and shaped like hats though.

[CuriousMark]

and if they realized the mistake, why not remove it from our systems? surely they have that capability
No, I doubt they have the capability. That is just absurd.

Here is speculation that is a bit less fanciful.

The TiVo probably has an internal switch to display or not display this content for use in troubleshooting and development of their software. This one time the switch was mistakenly turned on.

There is probably a new hire in dire fear of his/her job because they didn't catch that they weren't supposed to fiddle with a setting they didn't understand or because their work instruction wasn't clear on how to set up the recording command.

Now doesn't that make a lot more sense than a master scheme to bury you in paid programming?

[carguy84]

The team is off now to tweak the processes in place so that this doesn't happen again. Until the next time it happens *again* when a station pays us enough money.
I fixed your quote.

[kb7oeb]

I don't get Discovery channel because I use an antenna. I did not get this recording in NPL even though Teleword is run on the local ION station.

I like the Simon says icon, wonder what its supposed to mean.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Now doesn't that make a lot more sense than a master scheme to bury you in paid programming?
Don't hang out much on the internet, do you? :D

[RoyK]

Don't hang out much on the internet, do you? :D
I wasn't aware we were discussing the internet.

[DaveLessnau]

The sky is falling!

No, wait.

WOLF!!

(Or is the sky just falling?)

I just want to point out that those analogies need some work. Chicken Little was hit on the head with an acorn and extrapolated that into "the sky is falling!" In this case, we're hit on the head with an acorn, then hit on the head with another acorn, and then another one, and we're saying that if we aren't careful, that whole tree full of acorns is going to land on our heads. Of course, even that falls short since "acorn abatement" wasn't one of the reasons Chicken Little was sitting under the tree in the first place.

For the wolf bit, the boy who cried wolf was lying when he did so (he wanted attention). I didn't make this stuff up and certainly don't want the attention. Something was wrong so I reported it. With our 20-20 hindsight, it seems the reason something was wrong might be different from what I expected (though, my original post makes no inference as to that). But, that still doesn't imply that I made this stuff up. Plus, we can't know why something was wrong if we don't report it in the first place.

Now, of course, you could be using the analogies in their most generic sense: don't forecast disaster from isolated instances and don't report a disaster when there isn't one. But, the analogies carry far more baggage than that and should be used accordingly.

[ZeoTiVo]

Now, of course, you could be using the analogies in their most generic sense: don't forecast disaster from isolated instances and don't report a disaster when there isn't one. But, the analogies carry far more baggage than that and should be used accordingly.

umm, many in this thread, yourself included in a long parable, were taking this case of teleworld showing up in now playing as perhaps being a new way to show us ads. Even though teleworld was well known behind the scene mechanism as explained by many and a representative of TiVo also publicly stated it was a glitch that would be corrected you, and others, kept on with it is much more than that and we need to rally the troops and contact stakeholders, etc..

who was taking things beyond the context they should have again?


PS -your very first post was indeed fine and factual. It was the posts that came after it that went off to tinfoil land. As Rob Helmerichs points out, that is par for the Internet so no surprises there.

[classicsat]

another euphemism for spam
[quote]
Not really. You sign up for them as part of signing up for the TiVo service.

In other words TiVo uses disk space which reduces the amount of space the customer has to record his programs. IOW he buys a piece of equipment but in order to use it he must agree to give some of it back whether or not he wants spam recorded on it. (yeah I know - they tell you -- big of them)

It doesn't take away space the user was promised access to for their programming.

[quote[
There I also disagree. Additionally the 'noise' is seen by prospective customers and I know personally several who have been influenced in the negative after reading about TiVo advertising and seeing it in person.

Key word "influenced"

But they never have used the TiVo day to day, to realize the advertising presented the way it is may be a decent compromise.

[rainwater]

I find all of the conspiracy theories in this thread hilarious. Obviously, TiVo and its advertisers do not want this material in the Now Playing list. Unless it is accompanied by the promotional material and direct links (to the season passes, amazon unbox, etc), these ads do not give the advertiser very much value (no one is going to watch 30 minutes of random ads). Its obviously a mistake as the teleworld program is usually hidden (I am guessing some type of debug flag was set).

[DaveLessnau]

umm, many in this thread, yourself included in a long parable, were taking this case of teleworld showing up in now playing as perhaps being a new way to show us ads.

It's not like there's a super-secret conspiracy at TiVo. TiVo needs money. Ads make money. TiVo has a history of adding ads to make money. All of that is known and understandable.

Thus, if there's a new form of ad (with it's own icon) on my TiVo shortly following the 9.3.1 update, it sure seems reasonable to follow that logic chain, above, and assume that TiVo is trying something new to increase its revenue. This is not a conspiracy theory. It's not a blame thing. It's just business.

The problem is that many of us bought TiVos to mitigate our exposure to ads. We don't like ads. Thus, having our TiVos show us new forms of ads violates one of the reasons we bought the TiVo in the first place. So, we complain. TiVo learns from this and does a juggling act to maximize its revenue from ads and subscriptions while minimizing its loss from handling complaints about ads and loss of subscribers. This, too, is not a conspiracy. It's not tinfoil hat-wearing. It's part of a feedback process inherent in the business. How else would TiVo find it's boundaries if no one complained? Yet, every single time someone performs this function, he's denigrated. Personally (moving backwards in this thread, I see "master scheme," "tinfoil," "hats," "the likes of DaveLessnau," "the sky is falling," "wolf," and the prize winning, hilariously ad hominem "you obviously know this," "ludicrous agendas like yours," and "extremists like you").

Even though teleworld was well known behind the scene mechanism as explained by many and a representative of TiVo also publicly stated it was a glitch that would be corrected you, and others, kept on with it is much more than that and we need to rally the troops and contact stakeholders, etc..

This thread isn't about the behind-the-scenes version of Teleworld. It's about Teleworld appearing in our Now Playing list. And, since Teleworld is just a broadcast and TiVo handles its recording in some special way in software, then, once again, it sure seems reasonable to me to assume that since I recently got a software update to 9.3.1, TiVo must have changed how the software handles Teleworld. It's not like they can put a "Hidden" tag on the broadcast, itself, and someone just forgot this time.

Yes. TiVo admitted a mistake and they're fixing it. That's good. However, no one in this thread has ever tried to "rally the troops and contact stakeholders." The only person who has ever brought up the stakeholders is me. And, all I did was mention that I had contacted them because I'm tired of playing monkey in the middle. I certainly wish I hadn't brought that up since it was basically an invite to drop into ad hominem attacks (which happened very shortly thereafter).

As Rob Helmerichs points out...

I don't have a big problem with Rob's post. I just think the analogies have too much baggage to be useful. The use of metaphor and analogy is a reasonable method of argument.

[wmcbrine]

it also seemed weird the beginning mentioned, basically, "this is from tivo for tivo users".No, it's not weird. It has always said that. You have to understand, this is a regular TV program that airs in the middle of the night on a regular channel. Anyone (TiVo owner or not) could tune in, and think "WTF is this?". That notice explains it.

Again, this has been happening every night for many years. It's just that the recording of the program itself is normally hidden from the NPL. You're meant to see it cut up into its individual segments, via Showcases. Viewed that way, you don't see the notice.

[classicsat]

The problem is that many of us bought TiVos to mitigate our exposure to ads. We don't like ads. Thus, having our TiVos show us new forms of ads violates one of the reasons we bought the TiVo in the first place.

But TiVo never promised, nor marketed their system as an advertising avoidance machine. It is not their fault that you may be getting some advertising.


This thread isn't about the behind-the-scenes version of Teleworld.

But it has been noted by some, that advertising on the TiVo, specifically the Teleworld program at all (regardless if it accidentally appears in the NPL) is a problem to them

It's about Teleworld appearing in our Now Playing list.

Which, as explained was a one time accident which should not happen again.

And, since Teleworld is just a broadcast and TiVo handles its recording in some special way in software, then, once again, it sure seems reasonable to me to assume that since I recently got a software update to 9.3.1, TiVo must have changed how the software handles Teleworld. It's not like they can put a "Hidden" tag on the broadcast, itself, and someone just forgot this time.

That is what happened though. And you didn't accept that
when it was first posted. You wen on about Teleworld as a whole being some sort of problem.


Yes. TiVo admitted a mistake and they're fixing it. That's good. However, no one in this thread has ever tried to "rally the troops and contact stakeholders." The only person who has ever brought up the stakeholders is me.

What stakeholders would that be? It wouldn't be me (or most members here), I am a just lowly TiVo subscriber.
I lost no time, money, or service over the SNAFU.

I am sure those with a real financial interest in the matter have been properly informed.

[morac]

I like the Simon says icon, wonder what its supposed to mean.

I was actually wondering about this myself. The Teleworld programs are never supposed to show up in the NPL, so why have a special icon for them at all?

[ZeoTiVo]

Thus, if there's a new form of ad (with it's own icon) on my TiVo shortly following the 9.3.1 update, it sure seems reasonable to follow that logic chain, above, and assume that TiVo is trying something new to increase its revenue. This is not a conspiracy theory. It's not a blame thing. It's just business.
any one who viewed the teleworld with a realistic expectation of what ads TiVo my try on the DVR would know it would never be used as is for advertising purposes.

Anyone who would follow the logic chain of Tivo creating revenue through ads would see that deliberately creating recordings of ads and putting them in our now playing list would lose subscribers so fast there would be no stakeholders left in a very short timeframe. It is just illogical to think that was some new deliberate advertising feature, especially after a TiVo rep lets us know it was a one time goof.


so I stand by this thread turned essentially to poo wrapped like a tinfoil hat

[59er]

I just thought the new icon was cool.

[ZeoTiVo]

I just thought the new icon was cool.

well there was that :) always fun to see what the developers do when no one is usally watching

[pdhenry]

Sort of makes you wonder what the icon is for, if no one is ever supposed to see it... :)

[alansh]

If you search on the Teleworld program, the icon shows up on the entry.

Anyway, to sum up:
Tivo buys infomercial time late at night, currently on Discovery and Ion though other networks have been used in the past. This is used to distribute the video clips used in the Showcase and yellow star items.

Your Tivo automatically records the "Teleworld Paid Program". The video goes into space reserved for it, so you don't get more recording space if it doesn't record.

The segments are broken up by your Tivo and associated with the appropriate Showcase and menu items.

You can defeat the recording by scheduling another recording at the same time, though there's little advantage to doing so. You don't get extra recording space, and the ads will still be in the menu, just without the video clips.

Apparently this particular showing wasn't flagged correctly, so it recorded as a normal program. Because this was recorded this way, it may have gone into the regular recording space rather than the reserved space. Just delete it and forget about it.

Tivo also used to do an "Advanced Paid Program" which actually contained guide data, encoded as white and black bars. (Example here (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=984048#post984048)). They did this to shorten dial-up calls; with many (if not most) people using the internet now to get their guide data, it's probably not worth it.

[steve614]

where's the "crying" smily when you need it


Here ya go. :)

http://i36.tinypic.com/2nvyu15.jpg

[steve614]

You left out another option -- you already had a program scheduled for that time.

Hardly. I (almost) never record things overnight.

ETA: Maybe it only affected people w/ Discovery Channel ?

[Bierboy]

Here ya go. :)

http://i36.tinypic.com/2nvyu15.jpg

I like this one better...

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k137/Bierboy/Emoticons/Crying.gif

[a473497]

I saw the Teleworld show and gave it three thumbs up then set it to "Keep until I delete"

This morning I got up and my Tivo was full of shows featuring one guy with a really bad british/australian/jamaican hybrid accent selling all kinds of wonderful stuff and some guy that looks like Al from the Tool Time show selling household cleaning products (orange stuff, purple stuff and white powder all of which I think he sampled by snorting them.)

Where oh where was this feature when the Miss Cleo ads were on?

LOL

[kb7oeb]

Tivo also used to do an "Advanced Paid Program" which actually contained guide data, encoded as white and black bars. (Example here (http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=984048#post984048)). They did this to shorten dial-up calls; with many (if not most) people using the internet now to get their guide data, it's probably not worth it.

The thread said they got about 30MB out of it, doesn't sound worth it now.

[lrhorer]

This program was over 1GB, so I doubt it was in the OS partition.
There isn't an "OS partition" on the Tivo. There are two boot partitions, one inactive and the other active. The active partition contains the kernel and isn't mounted at all . There are two root partitions, also one active and one inactive. The active root partition is mounted read-only. It contains the OS applications and configurations. Finally there is a partition mounted read-write as /var, where log files, temporary files, etc. are placed. No programs go in any of these areas.

There is also a section of the MFS file system set aside for things like ads, teleworld programming, messages, etc. This is not ordinarily available to normal programs.

[ozbone]

"Glitch" ? I seriously doubt that.
Was it a "glitch" that it was automatically recorded ?
Or was it a "glitch" that they let it out of the bag prematurely ?
This STINKS

[ZeoTiVo]

"Glitch" ? I seriously doubt that.
Was it a "glitch" that it was automatically recorded ?
Or was it a "glitch" that they let it out of the bag prematurely ?
This STINKS

careful, such shouting might misadjust the tinfoil hat.

Did you read the thread ?

[astrohip]

I saw the Teleworld show and gave it three thumbs up then set it to "Keep until I delete"

Great first post! LOL!

"Glitch" ? I seriously doubt that.
Was it a "glitch" that it was automatically recorded ?
Or was it a "glitch" that they let it out of the bag prematurely ?
This STINKS
Meds wearing off, eh?

[steve614]

Was it a "glitch" that it was automatically recorded ?
Or was it a "glitch" that they let it out of the bag prematurely ?


It's the "slippery slope" some people are afraid of.
A new way for Tivo to deliver us ads. Have something recorded automatically without user input.
Tivo could be testing this with the Teleworld program and in the future, they could buy more air time for specialized ads.
Why do you think they have a "special" icon for it?

/ tin-foil hat readjusted. ;)

[ZeoTiVo]

Why do you think they have a "special" icon for it?

/ tin-foil hat readjusted. ;)

for any that might read that seriously ;)
aside from the fact that icon has been around for years and the way they record and store the teleworld on the drive and then hide it from now playing has also been around for years - yah it could be some new thing - not.

[lrhorer]

/ tin-foil hat readjusted. ;)
I took mine off years ago when I took a job as one of the people handling the mind control machines. :D:D

[RobertJ]

But TiVo never promised, nor marketed their system as an advertising avoidance machine.

Tivo also never marketed its product as an advertisement delivery machine. That is what it is becoming.

It marketed its product as "TV your way." Not "TV your way... now with more ads!"

It is not their fault that you may be getting some advertising.

Huh? Tivo is now pumping more and more advertising intentionally at users. It now uses (1) pop-up ads when fast forwarding during commercials, (2) far more prominent advertisements on the main Tivo menu, and (3) has even been inserting paid advertisements into the "now playing" list under particular folders. Please don't tell me that this isn't Tivo's "fault."

I'm willing to accept TivoPony's explanation that this latest Teleworld situation was a one-time glitch. However, it's hardly a stretch to think that the Tivo company (particularly under its latest management team) would choose to start pumping advertisements into the Now Playing list. This is only a small change from what it is already doing.

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm willing to accept TivoPony's explanation that this latest Teleworld situation was a one-time glitch. However, it's hardly a stretch to think that the Tivo company (particularly under its latest management team) would choose to start pumping advertisements into the Now Playing list. This is only a small change from what it is already doing.

it would be a HUGE change and TiVo would lose tons of subscribers over it. big difference between line items on menus (annoying as thay may be) and recording long form ads into now playing.

This thread just keeps staying silly.

[RoyK]

it would be a HUGE change and TiVo would lose tons of subscribers over it. big difference between line items on menus (annoying as thay may be) and recording long form ads into now playing.

This thread just keeps staying silly.

Oh? Really? Lets see.
Now: Go to TiVo Central. See a line saying "You Need The Speed of Norton 2009" Click it. See the flaming ad.

Ad in now playing:

See a line saying: "You Need The Speed of Norton 2009" (or whatever) Click it. See the flaming ad.

Only difference is where the link is located. Not such a huge difference. They both suck.

[BlackBetty]

They both suck.

I'm perfectly fine with TiVo's current advertisments. If you are so unhappy with it, then cancel and buy another brand of DVR. Simple solution. Ads are here to stay, either get used to it or move on.

[RoyK]

I'm perfectly fine with TiVo's current advertisments. If you are so unhappy with it, then cancel and buy another brand of DVR. Simple solution. Ads are here to stay, either get used to it or move on.

That's like saying if you are unhappy with the government get used to it or move on. That doesn't make sense either.

[morac]

That's like saying if you are unhappy with the government get used to it or move on. That doesn't make sense either.

Are you seriously equating the Government to TiVo? http://planetsmilies.net/shocked-smiley-9444.gif

Last time I checked I could cancel my TiVo service without having to move to a foreign country (or even move at all)

[ZeoTiVo]

Oh? Really? Lets see.
Now: Go to TiVo Central. See a line saying "You Need The Speed of Norton 2009" Click it. See the flaming ad.

Ad in now playing:

See a line saying: "You Need The Speed of Norton 2009" (or whatever) Click it. See the flaming ad.

Only difference is where the link is located. Not such a huge difference. They both suck.

if you can not or refuse to see the difference between a bucnh of various line item ads in menus and recording a full length ad and placing that where it talkes up user recording space then there really is no point in replying.

[RobertJ]

it would be a HUGE change and TiVo would lose tons of subscribers over it. big difference between line items on menus (annoying as thay may be) and recording long form ads into now playing.

How is this a "huge" change? Tivo already displays advertisements (with prerecorded video) in the subfolders of Now Playing. For example, under my folder for The Colbert Report, I now have an advertisement that reads "GREATEST LIVING EXPLORER PT.1"

The only difference is that latest "glitch" was in the main menu of Now Playing, and it's apparently a longer show. It's entirely plausible that Tivo would do something like this.

The current management of Tivo doesn't seem to have any reservations about making business decisions that upset its viewers. If a decision will be more profitable than the anticipated loss of subscribers, they'll do it. (Hence the flood of recent advertisements.)

[morac]

While I'm asking questions, is the reserved space for TiVo's advertisement videos a permanently fixed size or can TiVo Inc. expand and contract it at will?

It might be adjustable, but the Teleworld program has always been 30 minutes (actually a little less). It is repeated several times during the week, but the TiVo will only record it once per week. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe the TiVo will store the latest 2 episodes (one for the current week's showcases and one next week's showcases). So it's taking up at most an hour's worth of space, but that space isn't counted toward user programming so you aren't losing any of the hours as listed on the System Info screen.

I am curious as to what would happen if a user gets both Discovery Channel HD and Discovery Channel, but deselects the SD version. I'm not sure if Teleworld would be recorded off the DSC-HD or not. An HD recording would take up more space than a SD recording.

Of note, Teleworld also plays on ION affiliates (at least it does in my area), so it might just choose to record off that channel instead.

[RoyK]

if you can not or refuse to see the difference between a bucnh of various line item ads in menus and recording a full length ad and placing that where it talkes up user recording space then there really is no point in replying.

No real difference if the recording is flagged similarly to a suggestion and deleted first if space is needed. It then isn't really taking away from user space now is it?

[samo]

if you can not or refuse to see the difference between a bucnh of various line item ads in menus and recording a full length ad and placing that where it talkes up user recording space then there really is no point in replying.
"Line in the sand" is different for everybody. Some people had it at yellow star, some people will be happy to have ads all over the place as long as TiVo makes money. Most people who haven't drop TiVo because of ads already will probably take ads in user's space with the comment that it doesn't bother them at all because they can always delete them with one click.
For me the "line in the sand" has been crossed long time ago, and I will never buy another TiVo again unless new DTV TiVo will not use ads as present series 3 do.

[alansh]

My "line in the sand" is having to wait for an ad to complete before I can do something -- forced to watch an ad before watching a program, or having the FF disabled during a recorded ad.

The current system of ads is fine with me, as I can just ignore them without them interfering with what I'm doing. The second biggest complaint about Tivo is that subscriptions cost too much, and the ads help keep the subscription prices down.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that this glitch was just a glitch -- if nothing else, TiVo is probably having to comp the advertisers because their ads didn't get the proper exposure. If they were genuinely testing a new ad delivery, it would have had a better description than "Teleworld Paid Program".

[ZeoTiVo]

No real difference if the recording is flagged similarly to a suggestion and deleted first if space is needed. It then isn't really taking away from user space now is it?

Wow, oddly you gave the very defense some would try here if such a thing happened. Also of course the icon is different so it could be recognized from that as well. I am sure I would be pointing that out if it was part of the facts as well.

Still... recording ads just to show up in now playing like any other show title would cross a whole bunch of people's line. I stand by my predicition it would hurt TiVo deeply and would be something they would be nuts to do.

[RoyK]

Wow, oddly you gave the very defense some would try here if such a thing happened. Also of course the icon is different so it could be recognized from that as well. I am sure I would be pointing that out if it was part of the facts as well.

Still... recording ads just to show up in now playing like any other show title would cross a whole bunch of people's line. I stand by my predicition it would hurt TiVo deeply and would be something they would be nuts to do.

I stated what the TiVo ad defenders would most certainly say, yes. And Icons are just artwork they can easily change.

I understand about crossing the lines in the sand. Thing is, it seems, that lines drawn in sand aren't stable. Your own has already shifted at least once.

But ads in the NPL would just be one further step down the supposedly non-existant slope....

[ZeoTiVo]

I stated what the TiVo ad defenders would most certainly say, yes. And Icons are just artwork they can easily change.

I understand about crossing the lines in the sand. Thing is, it seems, that lines drawn in sand aren't stable. Your own has already shifted at least once.

But ads in the NPL would just be one further step down the supposedly non-existant slope....


My line has not changed- I distinctly said the line item ads in now playing cross my line as I have to do something different with the remote. I am annoyed with them and have communicated such clearly to TiVo through proper channels. It did not cross my line enough to make me want to ditch TiVo and I do not post about the annoyance ad nauseum on the forums either.

actual ads recorded off TV and placed in now playing without any input by the DVR owner/user - that is a huge step, not just another step, and it would be a step into TiVo incs. grave. The main reason I do not go with this slippery slope argument. Could there be more line item ads on TiVo? Sure. Might they find the need to keep more than 30 minutes worth of video for ads tucked away on the TiVo somewhere? Sure. As long as the line item ads do not make me use the remote differently and prices do not go up then I am fine with them and always have been.

[RoyK]

My line has not changed- I distinctly said the line item ads in now playing cross my line as I have to do something different with the remote. I am annoyed with them and have communicated such clearly to TiVo through proper channels. It did not cross my line enough to make me want to ditch TiVo and I do not post about the annoyance ad nauseum on the forums either.

actual ads recorded off TV and placed in now playing without any input by the DVR owner/user - that is a huge step, not just another step, and it would be a step into TiVo incs. grave. The main reason I do not go with this slippery slope argument. Could there be more line item ads on TiVo? Sure. Might they find the need to keep more than 30 minutes worth of video for ads tucked away on the TiVo somewhere? Sure. As long as the line item ads do not make me use the remote differently and prices do not go up then I am fine with them and always have been.

I get it. TiVo did cross the line but you are ok with it but that doesn't mean your line has moved. But you are not OK with ads in NPL even if they don't make you use your remote differently. But if you have to use your remote differently you are not ok with it except the ads now in the NPL make you use the remote differently but that's OK....

Did I get that right?

[ZeoTiVo]

I get it. TiVo did cross the line but you are ok with it but that doesn't mean your line has moved. But you are not OK with ads in NPL even if they don't make you use your remote differently. But if you have to use your remote differently you are not ok with it except the ads now in the NPL make you use the remote differently but that's OK....

Did I get that right?

it is RECORDED ads showing up in now playing LIKE ANY OTHER SHOW WOULD that would be very bad.

An easy to distinguish line item ad in some now playing folder list of shows and that any video for that line item ad, that if I clicked on it, comes from the long standing teleworld recording is indeed different. Went a bit over my line as I have to press up arrow after skip to end but I have done that maybe 10 times in the last two months. So I tell TiVo directly I do not like it, also I never said I would give up my TiVo DVRs for such a small aggravation and I do not post about line item ads ad nauseum to the point people wonder why I have a TiVo anyway if it annoys me so much. :rolleyes:

[RoyK]

it is RECORDED ads showing up in now playing LIKE ANY OTHER SHOW WOULD that would be very bad.

An easy to distinguish line item ad in some now playing folder list of shows and that any video for that line item ad, that if I clicked on it, comes from the long standing teleworld recording is indeed different. Went a bit over my line as I have to press up arrow after skip to end but I have done that maybe 10 times in the last two months. So I tell TiVo directly I do not like it, also I never said I would give up my TiVo DVRs for such a small aggravation and I do not post about line item ads ad nauseum to the point people wonder why I have a TiVo anyway if it annoys me so much. :rolleyes:

Its becoming more clear. Its ok if there are ads in the NPL if something distinguishes them as ads and they are recorded on the "reserved" section of the HD. Those are perfectly acceptable. Same ad saying the same thing and displaying the same thing but recorded somewhere else is not ok. Its horrible.

Also you cannot understand why people (me) who detest the ads and feel that they cheapen an otherwise great thing (depending on what version of the software is running) complain about it in threads about complaints about ads. If the complaints upset your digestive tract, then why do you read the threads?

[ZeoTiVo]

Its becoming more clear. Its ok if there are ads in the NPL if something distinguishes them as ads and they are recorded on the "reserved" section of the HD. Those are perfectly acceptable. Same ad saying the same thing and displaying the same thing but recorded somewhere else is not ok. Its horrible.

Also you cannot understand why people (me) who detest the ads and feel that they cheapen an otherwise great thing (depending on what version of the software is running) complain about it in threads about complaints about ads. If the complaints upset your digestive tract, then why do you read the threads?

I had said it was not worth replying and indeed should have simply not replied after that. I also never said I did not understand why you complain a lot - just that you complain a lot without doing something to fix what is upsetting you which leads me to believe you just like complaining about it and thus back to my original supposition that replying would be worthless.

[RoyK]

...and thus back to my original supposition that replying would be worthless.

Your reply is noted.;)

[ZeoTiVo]

Your reply is noted.;)

oh and a postscript - this was not a thread complaining about ads - but wondering why teleworld showed up in now playing - which has been noted as a one time glitch.

Others turned it into "yet another thread complaining about ads" and you happily shoveled onto the pile.

[timr_42]

it is RECORDED ads showing up in now playing LIKE ANY OTHER SHOW WOULD that would be very bad.




It showed up on one of my three S2's. The problem was that that S2 is very very full. It did delete a couple of shows making room for this. I've never been one to jump on the bandwagon of ads as I have always took the "ignore" it if I don't care.

In this case, Tivo removed a couple of my older shows for the TW program. That P***ed me off a bunch!!

[ZeoTiVo]

It showed up on one of my three S2's. The problem was that that S2 is very very full. It did delete a couple of shows making room for this. I've never been one to jump on the bandwagon of ads as I have always took the "ignore" it if I don't care.

In this case, Tivo removed a couple of my older shows for the TW program. That P***ed me off a bunch!!

yep - that is the kind of behavior a line item ad does not do and what makes this glitch very different and something TiVo would be nuts to even contemplate

[carguy84]

It is just illogical to think that was some new deliberate advertising feature
Illogical to us, but we're talking about a company with a sinking bottom line. I think today proved just how illogical businesses can be in the decisions they make.

I stand by my original assessment, Tivo meant to do this, because someone in Tech said this thread would get to 6 pages if they did it and someone else said, no, it will only get to 4 pages.

Stay tuned, as I hear their next "glitch" is going to make you confirm you'd like to fast forward ala when you try to do anything in Vista. Over under on that thread is 12 pages.

[ZeoTiVo]

Illogical to us, but we're talking about a company with a sinking bottom line. .actually their bottom line is inching upward. If they do pull off a delivered DirectTV TiVo next year they might just havea positive year.

[samo]

If they do pull off a delivered DirectTV TiVo next year they might just have a positive year.
I don't know. After fiasco with Comcast TiVo I certainly not going to be first in line to try new HD DirecTiVo. By the time time HD DirecTiVo rolls out, HR20 line will be very mature (it is mature and stable even now and has more useful features than series 3). How many people who are used for years to DTV UI and features would want to jump to TiVo is a big unknown. TiVo will have to do something more than kids zone or amazon downloads to win me over. And ads are not going to be the feature I'm waiting for either.

[ZeoTiVo]

I don't know. well sure it is a big MAY on a positive year for Tivo bottom line and I do not have access to numbers to crunch so no idea where the line is on directTV subs.
After fiasco with Comcast TiVo I certainly not going to be first in line to try new HD DirecTiVo. the bulk of the problems with Comcast trial is they insisted on using cruddy underpowered hardware they already had and then the whole upgrade had to install over the wire in OCAP mode. TiVo had very little to work with. DirectTV is a known quantity and Tivo has done one HD box for them already and now knows about mpeg4 on the TiVo HD. I think a new DirectTV HD TiVo will go a whole lot smoother.

By the time time HD DirecTiVo rolls out, HR20 line will be very mature (it is mature and stable even now and has more useful features than series 3). How many people who are used for years to DTV UI and features would want to jump to TiVo is a big unknown. in specific terms sure the number is unknown - but 2 million people have used a TiVo interface on directTV and many of those dropping DirectTV TiVo powered units did so reluctently. Many would go back. Throw it into the new subscriber deals as well and then subs would really pick up. I forsee the return to DirectTV TiVo as a good thing for all.
TiVo will have to do something more than kids zone or amazon downloads to win me over. And ads are not going to be the feature I'm waiting for either.

Ads will be at whatever level DirecTV has them now, which I do not know.

What features would you look for in a DirectTV TiVo?

[samo]

What features would you look for in a DirectTV TiVo?
Nothing major, but whole bunch of little things that make using DirecTv receivers a better experience (for me) and makes me hate my R10s once in while. For example:
1. GUI. I like PIP. I hate semi-transparent guide. Always did. I like normal grid guide and ability to set recordings right on a grid by one click (2 clicks for repeat recordings - equivalent of season pass).
2. I like and always wanted FSI. I also like predictability of what show will disappear first with first in - first out approach.
3. I like CID. Don't have to run to the phone to check who's calling.
4. Absolutely love color buttons on remote for one click special functions. Also mini-guide is a great feature.
5. RF remote - need I say anymore?
6. Guide option that groups channels. For example I can select between all channels, movie channels, sport channels, news channels, etc by just clicking option on guide screen.
7. Much longer buffer. Great for news. Don't have to record them but always have latest 1.5 hours of news on one of my DVRs.
I could probably come up with more, but you got the flavor. These are little things that TiVo doesn't have and just about every other DVR does. TiVo goes after kids zones and Internet downloads type of stuff and forgets about improving features that are nice to have for just recording and watching TV.
It is hard sometimes for people who never used anything but TiVo to switch to new DVR and get used to new GUI, but it is even harder to use TiVo and non-TiVo DVR at the same time. I have no problems switching from Dish to DirecTv DVRs but just about every time I use my R10s, I need to remind myself that TiVo doesn't do this or that. And I have been using TiVo GUI since 1999.
Imagine how frustrating it could be for somebody who never used TiVo before?

[ZeoTiVo]

"1. GUI. I like PIP. I hate semi-transparent guide. Always did. I like normal grid guide and ability to set recordings right on a grid by one click (2 clicks for repeat recordings - equivalent of season pass)."
I have always been in the never understood PIP group. I tried it out a long time ago and just never got the utility of it. Main reason I like a dual tuner DVR is I can flip between two things and have a buffer on both - I think that is unique to TiVo(the buffer on both) The gudie for TiVo could have icon for scheduled to record and so forth - but I can click on anything on standalone and get to the season pass setup screen - I do not do that enough to want a two button shortcut myself.

"2. I like and always wanted FSI. I also like predictability of what show will disappear first with first in - first out approach. "
I now put large drives in and never had a use for an FSI as a result. certainly it is one of the most asked for features. My Standalone is oldest recording on the chopping block will go. I do have room though so I rarely concern myself as any show that is deleted by TiVo is really old anyway. I have some Christmas specials we never watched and are still hanging out


"3. I like CID. Don't have to run to the phone to check who's calling."
I keep thinking I should do the PROM replace just so I can add this as a hack on my standalones. I think this is a feature that could sell some TiVo DVrs.
"4. Absolutely love color buttons on remote for one click special functions. Also mini-guide is a great feature.
5. RF remote - need I say anymore?"
Nope, but I would add you can use many types of universal remotes and even turn the TiVo peanut into an RF if you want.

"6. Guide option that groups channels. For example I can select between all channels, movie channels, sport channels, news channels, etc by just clicking option on guide screen."
TiVo can sort by categories as well - it just does it by shows versus channel.

"7. Much longer buffer. Great for news. Don't have to record them but always have latest 1.5 hours of news on one of my DVRs."
Longer buffer would be cool. With the advent of the TiVo HD XL they really should have like an hour long HD buffer size whihc would translate to really long for SD content.

"I could probably come up with more, but you got the flavor. These are little things that TiVo doesn't have and just about every other DVR does. TiVo goes after kids zones and Internet downloads type of stuff and forgets about improving features that are nice to have for just recording and watching TV."
true for you but TiVo is out to sell DVRs and already has a rep for being very useable - all that you mention above are deeper items that do not really sell a DVR to a first time buyer. Except for maybe CID on the TV, that people could understand no matter their DVR experience.

"It is hard sometimes for people who never used anything but TiVo to switch to new DVR and get used to new GUI, but it is even harder to use TiVo and non-TiVo DVR at the same time. I have no problems switching from Dish to DirecTv DVRs but just about every time I use my R10s, I need to remind myself that TiVo doesn't do this or that. And I have been using TiVo GUI since 1999.
Imagine how frustrating it could be for somebody who never used TiVo before?"
again that is your experience, my wife is not a tech gadget geek and if something is not intuitive enough to just pick up in 10 minutes she has no use in taking time to learn it. I setup our first TiVo DVR (240 model) on a weeknight and had a couple of season passes I setup. I came home from work the next day and she had setup 3 different day time shows as season passes. That to me is the useability most people are looking for.

So I doubt what you mention above will be a stumbling block for new TiVo users and indeed talk to most people about deeper DVR process and design and they glaze over. Once they know they can setup recordings and watch them easily - then it is the easy to graps features - like downloads of movies or You Tube or copying shows to a PC or another TiVo that make them more interested. Of course up till now that has not been the feature set on a DirectTiVo so it will be interesting to see how they market a TiVo "upgrade" for DirectTV users. Year 1 of the new box will see a lot of current and returning DirecTiVo users come on board though.

[classicsat]

I think when they say "PIP, they mean PIG (Picture In Guide), where the picture is playing in a corner when you browse the guide or other menus.

What will go is very predictable; Recently Deleted>Suggestions>(!) recordings, oldest first.

CallerID is easy.

For a DirecTV receiver (which it essentially will be), it might be specced to have an RF remote, which is not hard or expensive to do (I have done it myself). It just needs additional FCC testing.

[skiguy32]

Ok I did a search for "Teleworld Paid Program" and it lead for to this thread so here's my problem: About every morning @3-4am on Discovery Channel there is a program called "Teleworld Paid Program" that I do not ask my tivo to record, I do not have a season pass for it or anything but it automatically records anyway but here's the weird part that I don't understand, It's NOT showing up in the now playing section or anywhere on my tivo that I know of so where is this crazy program being stored at? How do I find it and prevent it from recording? I don't even know what it is! Also, ever once in awhile I have this program called "Break.com" that DOES show up in the now playing list but I don't know where it's coming from and how I get rid of it! My tivo is wirelessly connected to the internet so maybe it's got some kind of freaky virius ,I don't know what to do!

[mattack]

READ THE WHOLE THREAD. I'm almost certain this is described.

1) it does NOT take up any space on your Tivo that was promised to you. e.g. a "100 hour" Tivo still has 100 hours of space for your recordings.
2) it does NOT override any of your recordings
3) it doesn't show up in Now Playing -- it shows up e.g. as star items because they 'break up' the video it records into separate items based upon when those various ads are scheduled to run on the Tivo.
(They USED to also contain guide data encoded as video.. I don't think they've been doing that for many years.)

[morac]

The break.com video is a Web video which you must have subscribed to at some point either on the TiVo web site or the box itself. You'll need to cancel this from the VOD menu on older boxes or the manage web videos menu on the Premiere.

[Series3Sub]

This is essentially an open feed for TiVo boxes. It is used to record the video commercials that are found in the Showcases area of the TiVo or are accessible from the banner at the bottom of the Now Playing screen (on S2 & S3 anyway). I am unaware of any way to prevent the recording, but as stated in previous posts, this should not prevent a recording you have set for the same time nor take away any of your HDD capacity for recordings, unlike TiVo Suggestion that do even though Suggestions only record if you have the capacity and no other preferred recordings will be missed.

So, in other words, this is nothing to lose any sleep over NOR even ever have to think about as it is what it is and does not prevent your box from recording programs scheduled at the same time.

[dswallow]

After all the years of confusion it causes to see "TeleWorld" in the title of a recording that wasn't purposefully scheduled by the TiVo owner, I really wonder why TiVo doesn't get the name of the programming block changed to something more descriptive like "TiVo Video Update".

[mattack]

Well, most people aren't awake to see it record.. plus, IIRC, it does put info on the screen saying something about it being a special recording for the tivo..

[dswallow]

Well, most people aren't awake to see it record.. plus, IIRC, it does put info on the screen saying something about it being a special recording for the tivo..

Actually it was something I just noticed a coupe days ago; just happened to be up and wandering past and wondered what was recording. Having the Series 3 original units, I have the front panel display, and it simply says "TeleWorld Paid Programming" on the front panel display. I didn't turn on the TV to see what may have been shown there, if anything... been a while, actually, since I even ever noticed the TeleWorld stuff.

[Series3Sub]

After all the years of confusion it causes to see "TeleWorld" in the title of a recording that wasn't purposefully scheduled by the TiVo owner, I really wonder why TiVo doesn't get the name of the programming block changed to something more descriptive like "TiVo Video Update".

I agree. A better title would be like TiVo Showcase Videos. Yes, I was up at 4AM one day, a long time ago, and I too saw the Teleworld Paid Programming on my beautiful S3 OLED. I promptly stopped the recording thinking it was crap, but then found out its true purpose: sort of crap. I am OTA only on the S3 so I get the feed from my local ION OTA affiliate. Of course, Teleworld was the original, legal corporate name of the TiVo moniker. I believe some time ago they changed it to TiVo Inc.