DIRECTV and TiVo to Launch New HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service

[trausch]

http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=504621

EL SEGUNDO and ALVISO, Calif., Sept. 3 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- DIRECTV, Inc. (Nasdaq: DTV), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, and TiVo Inc. (Nasdaq: TIVO), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), announced today that they have extended their current agreement, which includes the development, marketing and distribution of a new HD DIRECTV DVR featuring the TiVo(R) service, as well as the extension of mutual intellectual property arrangements.

Under the terms of the non-exclusive arrangement, DIRECTV and TiVo will work together to develop a version of the TiVo(R) service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform. The product will support the latest TiVo and DIRECTV features and services, including TiVo's Universal Swivel Search and TiVo KidZone. TiVo will develop the new HD DVR for an expected launch in the second half of 2009.

DIRECTV will continue to develop and offer its own portfolio of industry leading set top boxes as primary offerings to both new and existing customers. This new TiVo box will be offered as an alternative choice to those DIRECTV customers who would like to add TiVo to a full line up of DIRECTV services.

"We have had a very successful history with DIRECTV. Together we brought the TiVo experience to millions of DIRECTV customers and now we look forward to launching a next generation product that uses TiVo's latest features to truly showcase DIRECTV's broad selection of high-definition programming -- all stitched together with the elegance of TiVo's renowned user experience," said Tom Rogers, TiVo's CEO and president. "This agreement demonstrates our continued embrace of mass distribution opportunities in cooperation with major multichannel operators who recognize the value of giving their customers a choice of compelling user experiences."

Like prior products developed by TiVo and DIRECTV, the new HD offering will be marketed and sold by DIRECTV nationally to its entire customer base as part of its growing portfolio of brand name video offerings. Specific consumer pricing and packaging will be announced in conjunction with DIRECTV's launch of the product.

"As the industry's content and technology leader, DIRECTV has a long-standing reputation for developing innovative, advanced products and services, including our highly successful series of DVRs and HD DVRs," said Chase Carey, president and CEO, DIRECTV, Inc. "We will continue to work with TiVo and make this new product available to all new and existing DIRECTV customers who may want to add TiVo on top of our industry leading experience."

DIRECTV and TiVo began their relationship in 2000 with the launch of the first DIRECTV DVR with TiVo service. In April 2006, the companies announced an extension of their commercial and advertising relationship and those commercial and advertising capabilities are further extended, and now include the new HD platform. DIRECTV and TiVo also recently deployed a software update to existing DIRECTV with TiVo boxes, which enables new features like DIRECTV's Remote Booking.

Financial terms of the deal were not disclosed.

About DIRECTV, Inc.

DIRECTV, Inc. (NASDAQ: DTV), the nation's leading satellite television service provider, presents the finest television experience available to more than 17.1 million customers in the United States and is leading the HD revolution with more than 130 HD channels -- more quality HD channels than any other television provider. Each day, DIRECTV subscribers enjoy access to over 265 channels of 100% digital picture and sound, exclusive programming, industry-leading customer satisfaction (which has surpassed all national cable companies for eight years running) and superior technologies that include advanced DVR and HD-DVR services and the most state-of-the-art interactive sports packages available anywhere. For the most up-to-date information on DIRECTV, please visit directv.com.

About TiVo Inc

Founded in 1997, TiVo (NASDAQ: TIVO) pioneered a brand new category of products with the development of the first commercially available digital video recorder (DVR). Sold through leading consumer electronic retailers, TiVo has developed a brand which resonates boldly with consumers as providing a superior television experience. Through agreements with leading satellite and cable providers, TiVo also integrates its DVR service features into the set-top boxes of mass distributors. TiVo's DVR functionality and ease of use, with such features as Season Pass(R) recordings, WishList(R) searches, and TiVo KidZone, have elevated its popularity among consumers and have created a whole new way for viewers to watch television. With a continued investment in its patented technologies, TiVo is revolutionizing the way consumers watch and access home entertainment. Rapidly becoming the focal point of the digital living room, TiVo's DVR is at the center of experiencing new forms of content on the TV, such as broadband delivered video, music and photos. With innovative features such as TiVoToGo(TM) and online scheduling, TiVo is expanding the notion of consumers experiencing "TiVo, TV your way.(R)" The TiVo(R) service is also at the forefront of providing innovative marketing solutions for the television industry, including the Stop||Watch(TM) commercial and program rankings service, a unique platform for advertisers and media companies. The Company is based in Alviso, California.

TiVo, the TiVo logo, Season Pass, WishList, Swivel, Stop||Watch, TiVoToGo, and 'TiVo, TV your way.' are trademarks or registered trademarks of TiVo Inc. or its subsidiaries worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

This release contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. These statements relate to, among other things, the timing and nature of future development and distribution of DIRECTV DVRs with TiVo service, the future availability of interactive advertising capabilities and future negotiations between TiVo and DIRECTV on other product initiatives. Forward-looking statements generally can be identified by the use of forward-looking terminology such as, "believe," "expect," "may," "will," "intend," "estimate," "continue," or similar expressions or the negative of those terms or expressions. Such statements involve risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to vary materially from those expressed in or indicated by the forward-looking statements. Factors that may cause actual results to differ materially include delays in development, competitive service offerings and lack of market acceptance, as well as the other potential factors described under "Risk Factors" in DIRECTV's public reports and TiVo's public reports, including each company's most recent Annual Report on Form 10-K and subsequent current and quarterly reports filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. Each of DIRECTV and TiVo cautions you not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements, which reflect an analysis only and speak only as of the date hereof. Each of DIRECTV and TiVo disclaim any obligation to update these forward-looking statements.

SOURCE TiVo Inc.

[gadgetgrrll]

Amazing news! I'm so glad they finally listened!

[mohanman]

Its too long to read, can someone just tell me will it support tivotogo, and multiroom? those are the most important features to me.
Mo

[Iceblade]

No mention of those specific features.

regs,
Jeff

[shibby191]

Being discussed here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=404044

Good for DirecTV and Tivo.

[newsposter]

so why in the world would they do this if their box is so successful? this means paying tivo more fees etc.

makes no financial sense at all unless tivo did a kickback or something to keep afloat

[dswallow]

so why in the world would they do this if their box is so successful? this means paying tivo more fees etc.

makes no financial sense at all unless tivo did a kickback or something to keep afloat

Because it's still better to offer choices than to force a single solution on everyone.

[Gunnyman]

because Rupert Murdoch isn't running things anymore.

[nrc]

Its too long to read, can someone just tell me will it support tivotogo, and multiroom? those are the most important features to me.
Mo

No mention of those specific features, but there is hope given the statement that "The product will support the latest TiVo and DIRECTV features and services, including TiVo's Universal Swivel Search and TiVo KidZone."

[Combat Medic]

I wonder what the chances are of MRV between a cable card tivo and a DirecTV Tivo are.

[shibby191]

so why in the world would they do this if their box is so successful? this means paying tivo more fees etc.

makes no financial sense at all unless tivo did a kickback or something to keep afloat

Well, tomorrow is the big day for Dish and the patent suit. So DirecTV may have gotten wind that Dish would invest/buy/offer Tivo DVRs and decided it was in their best interest to keep Tivo away from Charlie and do it themselves. Who knows really. The press release does say that DirecTV will keep on with their own line of DVRs so those aren't going away and it seems to indicate that the Tivo software can be loaded onto the current hardware at an extra charge.

[CuriousMark]

Well, tomorrow is the big day for Dish and the patent suit.

It probably won't be that big a day. Oral arguments for an hour and then the judge goes away to decide. At most people will pull tone of voice and body language cues from tomorrow, and that will be about it.

Wait, some big money numbers will get thrown around too. Those probably won't get decided on the spot either, but the numbers may come as a surprise to many.

[Raj]

I wonder what the chances are of MRV between a cable card tivo and a DirecTV Tivo are.

Interesting thought. I wonder what CableLabs would have to say about that.

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement.

[sdchrgrboy]

Interesting thought. I wonder what CableLabs would have to say about that.

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement
.

Where is all the posters who said this would never ever happen. Time to eat some crow

[Scooter]

Interesting thought. I wonder what CableLabs would have to say about that.

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement.

You can have DIRECTV without a phone line these days.

Scooter :)

[packerfan]

Even though I liked the tivo interface when I've had it, I've come to like the directv hd dvrs quite a bit. I've got three of them, all with external hard drives attached for additional storage. I'll have to monitor the situation with tivo, but I don't think I will switch, unless they can provide me with the same features.

[iaflyer]

Incredible! I had given up on DirecTV to have a Tivo interface. I finally had to switch to the HR21, but after using it for a while (a month) I still miss the Tivo.

I was contemplating switching to cable since we already get our internet access from Comcast - but I'll probably stick with DirecTV until late 2009 when this is scheduled to arrive.

[shibby191]

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement.

They haven't had that requirement for a while. Just plug it into the Internet and you're good to go. Or don't plug it into anything. The DirecTivo's required a phone line so they could call back to Tivo.

[bacevedo]

Even though I liked the tivo interface when I've had it, I've come to like the directv hd dvrs quite a bit. I've got three of them, all with external hard drives attached for additional storage. I'll have to monitor the situation with tivo, but I don't think I will switch, unless they can provide me with the same features.

I am in the same boat. I have had an HR20-100 for quite a while. I then got a new Tivo HD and went OTA for about 6 months (suspending my D service). I just recently started up the D service again and am using the HR20. I actually found myself liking the HR20 interface better. I haven't had the issues that others have had (missed recordings, blank recordings, etc.) so I have full trust in it.

However, I will monitor what the new Tivo will be like with D. By the time it comes out, my contract will be up and I should be in a good position to negotiate for one if I decide I want it.

I would equate the HR20 and Tivo "wars" to be like that of PC users vs Mac users. The HR20 is more of PC while the Tivo is more of a Mac. PC users will be just fine with an interface that isn't as "flashy" to get more "geek" tools (i.e. boolean search operators on the HR20, etc.). Mac users want more "form" over function - they want to look good while doing it.

As for stability between Tivo and HR20 - my HR20 has been as stable as my Tivo HD. I see just as many issues posted for both units - they both have problems.

I am still shocked that this announcment was made. I was one that never said never, but am still surprised after all this time that they finally went back. It will be nice to have options when my contract is up.

Now we have to get ready for all of the "Why did DirecTV leave this feature out?" threads that will pop up in about a year. :)

Bryan

[newsposter]

just note without an connection to a dvr you have to do PPV thru the internet, cant use the remote

[JimSpence]

I suggest that a new sub-forum be created to house all of the threads about the new TiVo based DirecTV DVR. :)

[pretzelbag]

I'm just glad to know that I will have a choice from (hopefully no later than) 31 Dec 2009 onward. I have both an HR10-250 and an HR21-100 (as well as a Series 3), and they each have their benefits, so it will be nice to let me choose which one I want for which room/TV/scenario.

I must admit the Series 3 remote kicks the ass of the others -- backlit, best layout for my fingers, etc. I hope that makes it into the 2009 TiVo HD DVR.

-pretzelbag.

[bengalfreak]

Where is all the posters who said this would never ever happen. Time to eat some crow


<--Munching happily.

[JimSpence]

I'm wondering if this might allow some upgrades to HR10-250s. I know that MPEG4 is out of the question, but I'm sure there are other things that could be done to improve this unit.

[skaeight]

I'm pretty happy with my HR20. If this doesn't cost anymore monthly I may consider getting one, but I kind of doubt it at this point (I can almost guarantee they offer this like Comcast is - with an additional monthly fee. Especially if it runs on the same hardware and is just a "software upgrade".) The HR20 is improving all the time, and for the most part "it just works". Maybe if I were to get another HDTV I'd consider it, but that probably won't be happening anytime soon.

It's good for people who like tivo though.

[HofstraJet]

I'll bet that the TiVo units will be premium units that will carry an additional charge.

[Dssturbo1]

Interesting thought. I wonder what CableLabs would have to say about that.

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement.

what phone line requirement??

my hr10-250 ran just fine for 1289 days without a phone line connection. just last week decided to take an update, connected the phone line and went from from 3.1.5e to 6.4a :)

two new hr21 and 3 older dtv receivers are not on a phone line either.

[AJRitz]

Well, tomorrow is the big day for Dish and the patent suit. So DirecTV may have gotten wind that Dish would invest/buy/offer Tivo DVRs and decided it was in their best interest to keep Tivo away from Charlie and do it themselves. Who knows really. The press release does say that DirecTV will keep on with their own line of DVRs so those aren't going away and it seems to indicate that the Tivo software can be loaded onto the current hardware at an extra charge.

What part of the word "non-exclusive" do you not understand? DirecTV may be trying to be first to partner with TiVo, but it's not an either/or for the TiVo folks. They can turn around tomorrow and announce a deal with Dish to provide software for DishDVRs too (though it won't happen, because Charlie doesn't believe in paying for stuff).

[cfryer]

I do enjoy my Series 3 but don't have much love for Comcast. Looking forward to the oppurtunity to move back to Directv. Great news!

[Castaa]

Oh man the timing of this announcement. My HR10-250 just went out on me this weekend. I was just about to start considering the non-TiVO D* options. But still no word on when this new box will be available.

[pretzelbag]

But still no word on when this new box will be available.

From the press release:

"TiVo will develop the new HD DVR for an expected launch in the second half of 2009."

I agree it's not as definitive as one would like, but it's better than nothing. You can assume July 1 or December 31, 2009 based on your optimism or pessimism...personally, since Tivo has worked extensively with DirecTV in the past and still makes very good DVRs for non-D* use, I'd like to think that the timeframe is reasonable. At the very least it's not two companies that have never worked together and which don't currently make DVRs.

On the other hand, the technology industry is littered with devices announced or promised or half-developed but never shipped (see Wired's annual vaporware awards for a trip down memory lane), so until these new TiVos start rolling off the assembly line, nothing is certain.

-pretzelbag.

[sjberra]

Oh man the timing of this announcement. My HR10-250 just went out on me this weekend. I was just about to start considering the non-TiVO D* options. But still no word on when this new box will be available.

Read the press release - at least teh second half of 2009, so 8-9 months from now minimum not counting design and R&D time overruns

[incog-neato]

They were about 2 yrs late with the "Comcast TiVo SOFTWARE upgrade (disaster)" and were many months late with the HR10-250 ...... so don't hold your breath for pre-orders" just yet. :D


Read the press release - at least teh second half of 2009, so 8-9 months from now minimum not counting design and R&D time overruns

[GKevinK]

Even if it's an exclamation that is past it's prime...

WOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!


I've been dragging my feet holding onto my 10-250 and putting off getting the HR-20 as long as I possibly could. This football season DirecTV forced my hand by moving the high definition broadcasts of the NFL Sunday Ticket onto the mpeg4 satellite, but I'm PSYCHED that I'll be able to replace it with a TiVo based DirecTV receiver in 2 years.

Maybe taking the time to mention my TiVo preference each and every time I've had occasion to communicate with DirecTV has finally helped. I even told them that I was forced to upgrade my Comcast service to digital so I could use a TiVo HD because of DirecTV's move away from TiVo.

The future looks much brighter suddenly. :)

[Adam1115]

Interesting thought. I wonder what CableLabs would have to say about that.

I also hope they (DTV) get rid of the phone line requirement.

They would have nothing to say about it.

I can already transfer SD encrypted content to my series2 and HD content to an OTA series3.

The content provider can determine weather or not it can be transferred.

[Charlutz]

Good news. Freedom of choice and market competition is always a good thing. I had two Hr10's and have three Hr20/21s now. I've learned to appreciate the things the 20/21's do better and miss the things the tivo did better. The best part is that directv gave them all to me for free, except for one of the tivos which when I sold it more than covered the $200 it cost me. I've been more than pleased with directv even if they haven't been perfect. I'm looking forward to trying the new box.

[madbeachcat]

I am one of those who said that ship has sailed. Well, I was wrong, and I am happy that it seems some of you (most ) will be getting what you have been wanting. But for me, my HR21 will remain my primary receiver. If the price is low enough to justify the purchase, I may try the ney HD DirecTivo, but no way will I come close to paying a $1000, like the HR10 when it came out.

Plus, it should have some of the new features of the HR21 added to it. An additional $5 a monthj would be OK just to check it out. But if's around $15 extra, no way.

Just my 2 cents.:o

[LlamaLarry]

Where do we sign up to alpha/beta the new units and/or deployment to HR2*? :)

[Cudahy]

Maybe by next spring they'll be beta testing. Wonder if it'll do any good to ask Directv to put me on a first out list?

[T-Wolves]

Fantastic news. As nice as the HR20 boxes are, I've missed my old TiVo systems. I'll switch back to TiVo as soon as they let me. :up:

[BOBCAT]

Down the road, if Directv has a pre-order sign up list, they can put me down for 4!
The only thing that I will miss is some of the recordings that I have on my HR10-250's. Wish that there was some way of transferring them into the new box.
The only time I ever use my hr20's is when there is something in HD that I want to see, which is not too often. They are so aggravating to use.

The best part of the whole deal is that I will be able to take my 2 hr20's down to the E-wast depot and have the pleasure of tossing them into the dump box. Sense I bought them on ebay, will not have to return them.

[sjberra]

Where do we sign up to alpha/beta the new units and/or deployment to HR2*? :)

reread the press release, it states that the Directv DVRS will continue to be the primary units and that the Tivo based units will be available as a alternate choice to existing and new customers. It then goes on to state that the pricing structure has not been determined yet.

[mp11]

reread the press release, it states that the Directv DVRS will continue to be the primary units and that the Tivo based units will be available as a alternate choice to existing and new customers. It then goes on to state that the pricing structure has not been determined yet.


Hopefully Directv doesnt screw people over by requiring a subbed HR series before they can get a Tivo as an additional unit. In other words the Tivo is only available as an addition to thier DVR. That would suck. :(

[sjberra]

Hopefully Directv doesnt screw people over by requiring a subbed HR series before they can get a Tivo as an additional unit. In other words the Tivo is only available as an addition to thier DVR. That would suck. :(

Means nothing to me, want to dump both the TIVO based units and the HR2X based units that I have on my account in favor of a true interface to the HTPC equipment I have.

As far as "screw people over" and "that would suck" is a matter of opinion. Personally I detest the TIVO interface, but again this is personal opinion, if it was the only game in town for the content, then would suffer with it, but it is not so I applaud them for giving a choice, now add the perfect (in my opinion) 3rd choice of a full interface to a HTPC without a USB base interface as what is indicated in the sparse reports on it, then things would be perfect

Just going by what is in the press release, which is the only verifiable piece of information out there, there is a good chance, given the wording of the release that to have a TIVO based unit the end user will be paying a surcharge for it.

[RS4]

Means nothing to me, want to dump both the TIVO based units and the HR2X based units that I have on my account in favor of a true interface to the HTPC equipment I have.

As far as "screw people over" and "that would suck" is a matter of opinion. Personally I detest the TIVO interface, but again this is personal opinion, if it was the only game in town for the content, then would suffer with it, but it is not so I applaud them for giving a choice, now add the perfect (in my opinion) 3rd choice of a full interface to a HTPC without a USB base interface as what is indicated in the sparse reports on it, then things would be perfect

Just going by what is in the press release, which is the only verifiable piece of information out there, there is a good chance, given the wording of the release that to have a TIVO based unit the end user will be paying a surcharge for it.

For someone who says they 'detest' the Tivo interface, you sure seem to spend a lot of time here. I would suggest you look at other forums - perhaps you would find folks more to your line of thinking;)

[orome]

Good news. Once it's in stock and settled down, I'll return to their service.

[bigpuma]

Hopefully Directv doesnt screw people over by requiring a subbed HR series before they can get a Tivo as an additional unit. In other words the Tivo is only available as an addition to thier DVR. That would suck. :(

I can't imagine that being the case. I do see a higher price for the TiVo vs. the HR2x series but I don't see why they would force someone to have an HR2x before getting TiVo.

[dswallow]

I can't imagine that being the case. I do see a higher price for the TiVo vs. the HR2x series but I don't see why they would force someone to have an HR2x before getting TiVo.

You have to understand "the sky is falling" mindset.

[sjberra]

For someone who says they 'detest' the Tivo interface, you sure seem to spend a lot of time here. I would suggest you look at other forums - perhaps you would find folks more to your line of thinking;)

Very interesting comment neighbor, at least I still have DirectTivo units in place (both HD and SD units) and being used plus I have an active account with Directv. You have mentioned you no longer do.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...hlight=comcast

Yes, I recently switched from Direct to Comcast. I had Comcast before for my broadband, so it was very easy to get a Tivo HD and try it out for 30 days. You can't do that with the D* dvrs - as soon as they are in your house, you're stuck with them for 2 years unless you pay a hefty cancellation fee.

[RS4]

Very interesting comment neighbor, at least I still have DirectTivo units in place (both HD and SD units) and being used plus I have an active account with Directv. You have mentioned you no longer do.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...hlight=comcast

I'm not quite sure what my leaving D* in favor of staying with Tivo has to do with the subject. It's quite clear from your posts that you could care less about Tivo. I was merely trying to point out that this is a Tivo community forum, so your suggestion of using a PC as a dvr, along with all your other negative feelings about Tivo might be better received in other forums or message boards.

I've always had a strong interest in the satellite technology, probably stemming back to the early 80's when I bought my first 12 foot C-band dish, and then was a very early customer of D*. I've yet to find anyone with a lower customer number then mine.

Ever since Murdoch took over D*, I felt they started a down-hill spiral where the customer was concerned. I now hope they have reached the bottom, and perhaps will start looking at the customers as an equal partner in the stockholders vs customers relationship.

I think D* has re-energized this relationship with Tivo because they recognized that after 3 years, they had a dvr that was still considered second class by folks who owned or knew about Tivos. D* has stated many times that the client they are after is the very clients they lost when many of us left. Also, D* is now in third place in their growth - a huge drop considering their biggest asset to date is the number of HD channels along with the exclusive sports. We've also seen that Tivo has made a big effort at gaining more access to the internet video streams. It makes perfect sense to me that D* is now renewing this relationship with Tivo. They won't be losing customers because of this and instead will now be a consideration for many folks. Who knows, if they drop that silly commitment, even I might come back at some time.

So, I have always maintained a strong interest in this forum along with the other Tivo forums. And because of my interest in the satellite industry, I probably know more about D* than the majority of people on this forum.

I've felt well-qualified to post responses on this forum and others in this family. I've tried to offer suggestions to those that were considering alternatives, along with encouraging others such as Blankmann to let D* know how upset we were with what they were doing.

The net is that I think we have 2 completely different set of motives. I feel all you offer is negativity towards Tivo, and any suggestions of folks including myself who were trying to let others know how we felt were shot down with great enthusiasm. I on the other hand hope to see Tivo continue to grow, because I feel they are on the right track of of getting broadband video up and running. In the mean time, I'm glad to see D* realize that they are once again strengthening their offerings.

[sjberra]

I'm not quite sure what my leaving D* in favor of staying with Tivo has to do with the subject. It's quite clear from your posts that you could care less about Tivo. I was merely trying to point out that this is a Tivo community forum, so your suggestion of using a PC as a dvr, along with all your other negative feelings about Tivo might be better received in other forums or message boards.

I've always had a strong interest in the satellite technology, probably stemming back to the early 80's when I bought my first 12 foot C-band dish, and then was a very early customer of D*. I've yet to find anyone with a lower customer number then mine.

Ever since Murdoch took over D*, I felt they started a down-hill spiral where the customer was concerned. I now hope they have reached the bottom, and perhaps will start looking at the customers as an equal partner in the stockholders vs customers relationship.

I think D* has re-energized this relationship with Tivo because they recognized that after 3 years, they had a dvr that was still considered second class by folks who owned or knew about Tivos. D* has stated many times that the client they are after is the very clients they lost when many of us left. Also, D* is now in third place in their growth - a huge drop considering their biggest asset to date is the number of HD channels along with the exclusive sports. We've also seen that Tivo has made a big effort at gaining more access to the internet video streams. It makes perfect sense to me that D* is now renewing this relationship with Tivo. They won't be losing customers because of this and instead will now be a consideration for many folks. Who knows, if they drop that silly commitment, even I might come back at some time.

So, I have always maintained a strong interest in this forum along with the other Tivo forums. And because of my interest in the satellite industry, I probably know more about D* than the majority of people on this forum.

I've felt well-qualified to post responses on this forum and others in this family. I've tried to offer suggestions to those that were considering alternatives, along with encouraging others such as Blankmann to let D* know how upset we were with what they were doing.

The net is that I think we have 2 completely different set of motives. I feel all you offer is negativity towards Tivo, and any suggestions of folks including myself who were trying to let others know how we felt were shot down with great enthusiasm. I on the other hand hope to see Tivo continue to grow, because I feel they are on the right track of of getting broadband video up and running. In the mean time, I'm glad to see D* realize that they are once again strengthening their offerings.

Bottom line point neighbor - I still have Directv Tivo units in place and operating, it does not matter if I detest the interface or worship the interface as the almighty powerful TIVO interface.

By the same token - you offer nothing but negativity on any interface that does not have the 4 letter TIVO on it, so what is the difference?

Curious - considering what Directv's financials state, would love to see a validation link to this statement

"D* has stated many times that the client they are after is the very clients they lost when many of us left. "

By way of a valid validation I mean a link to a verifiable site, SEC filings, Directv Website, etc not a 3rd party validation that cannot be proven


Not going into any other detail or your other comments, not worth the effort

[timlinca]

This is great news! I'm switching back as soon as they make the new TiVo available. I'll send my "free" HR21 back with a nice note thanking them for letting me use it for a year and pay them whatever they want for the new TiVo:^)

Tim

[Rowsdower]

I wonder what the chances are of MRV between a cable card tivo and a DirecTV Tivo are.
The number of households with both CableCARDs and DirecTV service must be negligible.

[dswallow]

The number of households with both CableCARDs and DirecTV service must be negligible.

Mostly because neither lets you truly buy programming a la carte; they each want to build up from the basic tier adding subsequent layers on top of each other, so you always end up with significant duplication of channels (and costs) before you get to anything that's really unique to only one service.

[Adam1115]

Mostly because neither lets you truly buy programming a la carte; they each want to build up from the basic tier adding subsequent layers on top of each other, so you always end up with significant duplication of channels (and costs) before you get to anything that's really unique to only one service.

True. For quite awhile I had cable and Dish network.

Even with the $5 surcharge, HBO was still cheaper with Dish. Comcast required you to have digital starter to get HBO.

[94SupraTT]

Where is all the posters who said this would never ever happen. Time to eat some crow

So true.

[Adam1115]

Can you crow eating people give it a rest?

The thing about opinions is that SOMEONE is going to be wrong... Some people thought TiVo might return, some people didn't. So what!

[zalusky]

It's all about mea culpa. I don't have a problem with saying I was wrong to be so absolutely sure.

Some people can't do that.

[Rowsdower]

Can you crow eating people give it a rest?

The thing about opinions is that SOMEONE is going to be wrong... Some people thought TiVo might return, some people didn't. So what!
There are those who simply expressed their opinion that TiVo would never return to DirecTV, and there are those who rudely belittled others for merely suggesting the possibility. It's the latter group that should be eating crow.

[newsposter]

will the new machine bring back the animation that my t60 had..i miss tivo 0!

[psywzrd]

I really hope DirecTV doesn't rape us on these new Tivo boxes. Considering some of us paid $1000 for our HR10-250s that are now rendered almost useless as far as HD programming, it's really not fair that we should have to shell out big bucks to switch back over to Tivo. It's almost as if DirecTV is using this solely as a way to generate revenue. Think about it - they phase out the HR10-250s, get everyone to switch over to their crappy DVR, and then come out with a brand-new, expensive HD Tivo that we have to buy if we want to go back to Tivo (and I definitely do).

I know this is a bit premature since we have no idea what the pricing structure will be but I will not be happy if they charge a lot for these boxes. Lock me in for another two years but subsidize the boxes for me. That's only fair, right?

[madbeachcat]

It's all about mea culpa. I don't have a problem with saying I was wrong to be so absolutely sure.

Some people can't do that.

Why should anyone care about someone else saying they were wrong? Be happy that people here would appear to be getting what they want.

[madbeachcat]

I really hope DirecTV doesn't rape us on these new Tivo boxes. Considering some of us paid $1000 for our HR10-250s that are now rendered almost useless as far as HD programming, it's really not fair that we should have to shell out big bucks to switch back over to Tivo. It's almost as if DirecTV is using this solely as a way to generate revenue. Think about it - they phase out the HR10-250s, get everyone to switch over to their crappy DVR, and then come out with a brand-new, expensive HD Tivo that we have to buy if we want to go back to Tivo (and I definitely do).

I know this is a bit premature since we have no idea what the pricing structure will be but I will not be happy if they charge a lot for these boxes. Lock me in for another two years but subsidize the boxes for me. That's only fair, right?

I've been wrong on this all the way, but I do not think the unit is going to cost a lot more than the HR2X. But I do think there is going to be a $10 to $15 monthly charge. Nothing to back it up, just my feeling.

[JRAllas]

I meant to come on here to say something at the time, but a couple weeks ago I received a phone call from DirecTV. The woman began telling me about the HD service and that it would require me to change DVR's because I have the HR10-250. I told her I absolutely refuse to replace my HR10-250 with any of their new DVR's because all I've heard is complaints and that the reason I switched from Comcast to DirecTV was for the receiver with the built-in Tivo. She seemed very interested in my answer and thanked me for my response. She didn't even try to push their DVR's on me or anything like that. Now it all makes sense. My guess is they've been receiving the same comments from many of their customers.
I find it interesting that no where in the article can I find a reference to DirecTV trying to move away from Tivo and p!ssing off it's customers.

[Rowsdower]

I meant to come on here to say something at the time, but a couple weeks ago I received a phone call from DirecTV. The woman began telling me about the HD service and that it would require me to change DVR's because I have the HR10-250. I told her I absolutely refuse to replace my HR10-250 with any of their new DVR's because all I've heard is complaints and that the reason I switched from Comcast to DirecTV was for the receiver with the built-in Tivo. She seemed very interested in my answer and thanked me for my response. She didn't even try to push their DVR's on me or anything like that. Now it all makes sense. My guess is they've been receiving the same comments from many of their customers.

When I received the call, I informed the representative that "we don't want to give up TiVo." "Oh, no one wants to give up TiVo," she replied (as though she'd heard this many times).

Yes, I'd like to think that customers like us played a role in this decision.

[fasTLane]

They gave up on me after the fourth call. :cool:

[Thehypnotoad]

While this is great news, I just hope that when the new DirecTivo unit finally appears they make it like the HR10-250 and include the off-air tuner(s) in the box and not as an add-on.

[unixadm]

I've been wrong on this all the way, but I do not think the unit is going to cost a lot more than the HR2X. But I do think there is going to be a $10 to $15 monthly charge. Nothing to back it up, just my feeling.

I'd be happy with that! I have grandfathered "lifetime" DVR service on my account, so they can't charge me for DVR service! (and they can't use the excuse that it is a better quality interface since the TiVo interface is what I had purchased the lifetime on initially)

[Cudahy]

I expect a 2 to 5 dollar extra charge. If Directv doesn't care which box we choose as long as we stay with Directv it shouldn't be more than 2 dollars.

[Budget_HT]

I'd be happy with that! I have grandfathered "lifetime" DVR service on my account, so they can't charge me for DVR service! (and they can't use the excuse that it is a better quality interface since the TiVo interface is what I had purchased the lifetime on initially)

What he said!!

[pbmaxx]

Well, I had been considering finally getting dtv hd dvr... Then I flipped off the 360 a moment ago (2:30 am CST) and back to tivo. I had a message... announcing the new TIVO HD and directv. Nothing to specific of course.... but now I will most likely wait and see what happens... Have used the dtv hd dvr at a family members house and just do not care for the interface... Plus the wife luv's tivo's enterface.... and if she's happy..........:D

Funny, I had not been here in a good while so though I'd see what was going on... Not shocked to see ya'll had been talking about it for a while now...

[Citivas]

I'd be happy with that! I have grandfathered "lifetime" DVR service on my account, so they can't charge me for DVR service! (and they can't use the excuse that it is a better quality interface since the TiVo interface is what I had purchased the lifetime on initially)

If you're sure, that's great, but I'm not counting on my lifetime DVR automatically applying to the new TiVo service. It seems like it would be easy to market is as some premium service and say our lifetime was for basic DVR service only. I'm not saying they will, only that I see no legal reason they couldn't. After all, they didn't even have to give us lifetime of the account since the TiVo lifetime service agreements were originally tied to the box and TiVo doesn't honor them still without the original boxes.

[fasTLane]

Well, I had been considering finally getting dtv hd dvr... Then I flipped off the 360 a moment ago (2:30 am CST) and back to tivo. I had a message... announcing the new TIVO HD and directv. Nothing to specific of course.... but now I will most likely wait and see what happens... Have used the dtv hd dvr at a family members house and just do not care for the interface... Plus the wife luv's tivo's enterface.... and if she's happy..........:D
Funny, I had not been here in a good while so though I'd see what was going on... Not shocked to see ya'll had been talking about it for a while now...Well, we just got the same message here and it does say what we already know... but, just seeing it written up there on the big screen gives you that warm feeling, like morning sun coming up all bright and toasty. :)

Ain't it grand? :p

[mp11]

but, just seeing it written up there on the big screen gives you that warm feeling, like morning sun coming up all bright and toasty. :)

Ain't it grand? :p

I associate it more like living inside a hurricane for 2 years then seeing sunlight breaking through. :rolleyes:

[DeWitt]

Sadly it was too late for me. If they had extended the cut off on the MPEG2 channels I probably would have waited.

So.... I bought a Tivo HD and switched to Verizon Fios. Long install process, but so far so good. It's funny, but someone asked me why I switched and I said, same reasons I left Comcast to go to Direct TV, better picture quality, HD, and integrated Tivo.

[mp11]

Sadly it was too late for me. If they had extended the cut off on the MPEG2 channels I probably would have waited.

So.... I bought a Tivo HD and switched to Verizon Fios. Long install process, but so far so good. It's funny, but someone asked me why I switched and I said, same reasons I left Comcast to go to Direct TV, better picture quality, HD, and integrated Tivo.


With the TivoHD you may have better than what we'll get with the new DirecTivo as far as hardware. Hope I'm wrong. :cool:

[mp11]

[QUOTE]I really hope DirecTV doesn't rape us on these new Tivo boxes. Considering some of us paid $1000 for our HR10-250s that are now rendered almost useless as far as HD programming, it's really not fair that we should have to shell out big bucks to switch back over to Tivo.

I really cant see it being $1000. Hopefully they understand that these are different times since then. Look at our economy. Many people are cutting back on unecessary spending. (And yes, a Tivo would fall into that catagory). Lets hope they're wise enough to see the big picture.

[EricG]

Won't the new HD DirecTiVos be leased just like all the other boxes?

[dswallow]

Won't the new HD DirecTiVos be leased just like all the other boxes?

It's not like that means you won't still pay some absurd fee up front. :)

[magnus]

Some would argue that D* is a bigger and unecessary expense.


Look at our economy. Many people are cutting back on unecessary spending. (And yes, a Tivo would fall into that catagory). Lets hope they're wise enough to see the big picture.

[aarong50]

Directv IF you are listening I will switch back to your service if you can get this right. DONT SCREW IT UP!!

[bpratt]

[QUOTE=psywzrd;6661084]

I really cant see it being $1000. Hopefully they understand that these are different times since then. Look at our economy. Many people are cutting back on unecessary spending. (And yes, a Tivo would fall into that catagory). Lets hope they're wise enough to see the big picture.

When the HR10-250 first came out it included a 250 Gig hard drive which were selling at the time for around $600. By the time the new D* Tivo comes out, a 750 Gig drive will probably be around $130.

[fasTLane]

Good observation. Could be a factor. Just saw a 1 Tb Seagate on sale for that price!

[dswallow]

When the HR10-250 first came out it included a 250 Gig hard drive which were selling at the time for around $600. By the time the new D* Tivo comes out, a 750 Gig drive will probably be around $130.
Considering 1TB drives are in the $130/Qty1 range now, in a year, I'd certainly expect them, or larger, to be even cheaper, especially in any sort of quantity.

[mhn2]

When the HR10-250 came out, it was the only HD DVR option from DirecTV, so they could charge what they wanted. Times have changed, and there are many more choices. Hopefully, D* will price the new HD DirecTiVo more reasonably.

[bigpuma]

When the HR10-250 came out, it was the only HD DVR option from DirecTV, so they could charge what they wanted. Times have changed, and there are many more choices. Hopefully, D* will price the new HD DirecTiVo more reasonably.

Not only that but it was the only HD TiVo and one of very few HD DVRs available.

[netringer]

Sadly it was too late for me. If they had extended the cut off on the MPEG2 channels I probably would have waited.

So.... I bought a Tivo HD and switched to Verizon Fios. Long install process, but so far so good. It's funny, but someone asked me why I switched and I said, same reasons I left Comcast to go to Direct TV, better picture quality, HD, and integrated Tivo.

I'm gone from D* forever, too.

They hit me with a commitment I didn't agree to, which was the last straw. I activated an OWNED HR-10-250 and they put me on a two year commitment without telling me. They can DIAF.

Also I will guaran-d*-tee you that the new HD DTivo will not have Tivo2Go, MRV, net features, or anything else I have now.

I'm starting a campaign to cost DirecTV one sub for every dollar of the early termination fee. I have a real good start since I referred 18 new D* subs. I'm unreferring them Who's with me?

[mp11]

[QUOTE]They hit me with a commitment I didn't agree to, which was the last straw. I activated an OWNED HR-10-250 and they put me on a two year commitment without telling me. They can DIAF.

1- They cant do that. The purpose of the 2 year commitment is to subsidize the cost of a receiver they're letting you have for little or nothing.

Also I will guaran-d*-tee you that the new HD DTivo will not have Tivo2Go, MRV, net features, or anything else I have now.

2- You dont know that.

I'm starting a campaign to cost DirecTV one sub for every dollar of the early termination fee. I have a real good start since I referred 18 new D* subs. I'm unreferring them Who's with me?

3- LOL

[netringer]

[QUOTE=netringer;6696331]


1- They cant do that. The purpose of the 2 year commitment is to subsidize the cost of a receiver they're letting you have for little or nothing.


Oh yeah. You would that think as I did.

We'll see how they explain it to the states attorney.

TiVo2Go? MRV? Did they have that the previous DTivos? You know any other sat DVRs that can do it?

BTW, AT&T Uverse now has MRV.

[mp11]

[QUOTE=mp11;6696648]

[QUOTE]TiVo2Go? MRV? Did they have that the previous DTivos? You know any other sat DVRs that can do it?

No. But I believe the new standalone Tivos do. People seem to think that the new DTivo will be based on the earlier DTivos. :rolleyes:

[self]

I have grandfathered "lifetime" DVR service on my account, so they can't charge me for DVR service! (and they can't use the excuse that it is a better quality interface since the TiVo interface is what I had purchased the lifetime on initially)
Better look in the contract you signed about that. Oh, yeah, there isn't one, is there?

My prediction is that it'll be an option on a DTV-produced DVR. You can pay the base fee (or nothing, for those of us with lifetime), or you can pay TiVo extra money for the right to have their UI and ads.

[dswallow]

Better look in the contract you signed about that. Oh, yeah, there isn't one, is there?
Well, actually there is; the terms are part of DirecTV's regular service contracts and you can follow what they've done to clarify things regarding the meaning of lifetime TiVo service. We may not have physically "signed" it, but we have implicitly done so.

It's all moot until there s a real product and real information about service cost.

Some of the absurd claims I've read here and elsewhere about what "might" be the charges are just further panic by people who seem to want to do nothing but be panicked and scared and to do the same to others.

[magnus]

Who really knows what it will be based on? Do the Comcast Tivos have MRV and the other premium features that the SA Tivos have? If they do... then that might be a good indication of what's to come.





No. But I believe the new standalone Tivos do. People seem to think that the new DTivo will be based on the earlier DTivos. :rolleyes:

[JRAllas]

I received a message on my SD DirecTivo receiver that the HD Tivo receiver would be released around mid 2009. No messages on my HR10-250, yet, but I'm looking forward to the new unit.

[JRAllas]

On the other hand, the technology industry is littered with devices announced or promised or half-developed but never shipped (see Wired's annual vaporware awards for a trip down memory lane), so until these new TiVos start rolling off the assembly line, nothing is certain.

-pretzelbag.
You got that right! I'm still waiting for the flying car!

[annenoe]

Well, I for one am happy to see this but will sit back and wait. If they can give me a tivo interface, a box that will record two channels at once, a box that will let me record my OTA, a box that has more than 50 SPs (I've had to delete SPs from my D* DVR), wireless access to my music and photos on my mac, and a box that allows easy space expansion, I think I'll be happy. MRV would be nice but I don't use it enough to be a purchase decision, nor do I use wishlists. But I'm not giving up my Hr10-250 until then. However, I may finally give up my 3rd SD tivo so I can HD on my 3rd TV (for now, I only get HD via live feed so no pause or record).

[JRAllas]

Well, I for one am happy to see this but will sit back and wait. But I'm not giving up my Hr10-250 until then.
I'm not making a move until the new HD DirecTivo is released. The majority of the HD content I watch/record is from local OTA channels, so gradually losing the MPG2 HD channels doesn't bother me. Some of SD satellite channels look pretty good so I have no picture quality issues unless I have the option of choosing between SD and HD broadcast of the same show, in which HD will always win, but I don't cry if I don't have that option. I'm very curious to see how good the new unit is and how easy it will be to switch over to the new unit and still keep the rest of my old SD receivers. I'm sure my dish will have to be replaced. I've waited long enough for DirecTV to realize very few are happy with their DVR's to finally work a deal out with Tivo. My wish seems to have come true. Now we'll see if they're capable of turning it into a nightmare.:)

[Norm3]

I'm thrilled because I hate Directvs HD box. I wanted to switch to Fios but now i'm ready to stay because of the return of tivo.

[Semco]

ok. Been a while. Any news on this front? I'm dying for HD service and I'm tired of my frankenstein directv tuner/ TiVo stand-alone boxes

[shibby191]

No, nothing new. About a month ago the Tivo CEO said it was delayed until next year. Tivo would give no comment at CES about it. A report hear from a user that they emailed and heard back from Tivo PR that they hoped to still have it out by end of this year. DirecTV (once again) made no mention of Tivo at all and no financial analysts asked about it at their recent conference call.

Tivo has their conference call on March 2nd so if there is any new news to be had it will be there.

Honestly it's really not looking that good for a release any time soon with nothing in beta or testing yet and now nobody wants to even talk about it. But time will tell.

[newsposter]

where's earl when you need him :)

[Adam1115]

http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/directv-signup.html

[argicida]

Thanks Adam. A box that does both sure would help me (and probably increase the chance of staying married.)

[TerpEE93]

Beware the 2 year commitment at DirecTV!!! I just broke my contract because the big dish kept losing its azimuth under gusty winds, and it cost me $250...*and* I have to return the receiver to DTV. I would think twice before going down that path again...

[dswallow]

Beware the 2 year commitment at DirecTV!!! I just broke my contract because the big dish kept losing its azimuth under gusty winds, and it cost me $250...*and* I have to return the receiver to DTV. I would think twice before going down that path again...

If it kept moving, it wasn't installed correctly, gusty winds or not. DirecTV should've offered to send out an installer to secure it properly, and if they didn't you should have had cause to get out of the contract with no penalty (translated: DirecTV would've sent out the technician, they wouldn't have let you off with no penalty).

The receivers have been leased -- DirecTV changed to that model exclusively several years ago; you'd have to return them whenever you canceled even if you had fulfilled the contract period already.

[DawnW]

I think I would be on the phone asking for a tech to come out and would keep calling until they agreed not to charge me and to continue service if they can fix the problem.

I just had to call FOUR times today to get something done, but the 4th time I asked for a supervisor and he was able to do what I needed. It took a couple of hours and several, "so what, we don't care" attitudes, but it is now done.

Dawn

Beware the 2 year commitment at DirecTV!!! I just broke my contract because the big dish kept losing its azimuth under gusty winds, and it cost me $250...*and* I have to return the receiver to DTV. I would think twice before going down that path again...

[TerpEE93]

So really, my point was just to go in with eyes open if you choose to do it. Consider that you can go one year at a time (or even month-to-month) with your TiVo and most video service providers, and you own the box, versus a 2 year commit and a lease with DTV... And even with the lease, there is significant outlay for the box ($200 for the HR20-700).

[jcaudle]

Directv is ok...but it can take a week or more to get a technician out. With cable, Cox has a tech out the same day or next day most of the time and wind/snow don't affect your signal. Its a no brainer to get FiOs over either satellite or cable...Tivo works with it....and blazing fast internet with bundled phone.

[nrc]

A report hear from a user that they emailed and heard back from Tivo PR that they hoped to still have it out by end of this year.

That was me, and it was Derrick Nueman, Director of Investor Relations that answered the question.

Honestly it's really not looking that good for a release any time soon with nothing in beta or testing yet and now nobody wants to even talk about it. But time will tell.
Right. I'm sure it won't be out before July, but I'm sure DTV will be happy to talk about it when it's available.

[shibby191]

Right. I'm sure it won't be out before July, but I'm sure DTV will be happy to talk about it when it's available.

Yep. If it will be available for sale within 6 months I'd think Tivo will talk it up at their conference call. If they don't say anything then end of year would be the earliest but even that may be pushing it. Unless this new box is near bug free out of the gate with only a month of beta testing there just isn't enough time to get it out by end of this year.

I only mention the reality of things just because I'd hate for someone to commit to DirecTV thinking the new Tivo is "just around the corner" when in reality it's probably still a year out yet. We all may get a big surprise in 6-9 months but I'd hate to see people make a commitment on something that just frankly doesn't exist yet.

[shibby191]

Directv is ok...but it can take a week or more to get a technician out. With cable, Cox has a tech out the same day or next day most of the time

Must be nice. Cable around here it will usually be a week to get someone out.

and wind/snow don't affect your signal.

Wind and snow don't effect my signal, hasn't for 13 years. If you have a properly peaked and installed dish only the most heavy thunderstorm will knock out your signal. And even then it's back in 5-10 minutes. Last wind storm that knocked out cable, it was down for 2-3 weeks for many people as they strung new lines. Me, I was back in 10 minutes so long as I had power. :D Several people got DirecTV or Dish after that one.

[nrc]

I only mention the reality of things just because I'd hate for someone to commit to DirecTV thinking the new Tivo is "just around the corner" when in reality it's probably still a year out yet. We all may get a big surprise in 6-9 months but I'd hate to see people make a commitment on something that just frankly doesn't exist yet.

Yes, if anyone out there is thinking about subscribing to DTV today based on a TiVo box coming out at some point in the future, that would be foolish. Once they're committed DirecTV has no incentive to give them a deal on the new TiVo unit. They'll be much better off to wait until the unit comes out and make their best deal at that point.

[NickIN]

Yes, if anyone out there is thinking about subscribing to DTV today based on a TiVo box coming out at some point in the future, that would be foolish. Once they're committed DirecTV has no incentive to give them a deal on the new TiVo unit. They'll be much better off to wait until the unit comes out and make their best deal at that point.

Not to mention that when they actually got the TiVo unit DirecTV would start the 2 years over anyway.

[DawnW]

WWYD?

I got my Directv this week. We got the one HD DVR upgrade/lease free with our signing on.

The standard box for our other HD TV will absolutely drive me nuts as I rarely if ever watch live TV and many times DH and I want to watch different shows.

Since the Tivo is looking like a possible 12 more months (or longer), should I just bite the bullet and get another HD DVR for now?

And if I get one, would you trust getting one on Craigslist or would you get it from Costco, paying a little more, but the assurance that if it doesn't work or goes wrong, it can be replaced?

Thanks,

Dawn

[shibby191]

Since the Tivo is looking like a possible 12 more months (or longer), should I just bite the bullet and get another HD DVR for now?

I guess it depends on if you plan to stick with DirecTV. Me, I've been with them 13 years and not going anywhere so 2 year commitments don't bother me at all. Me, I've got 2 of the HD DVRs and just deactivated my last DirecTivo a couple months ago because it drove my wife crazy to use it after using the HR2x's for 2 years. When (if) the new DirecTivo comes out I probably won't give it much of a look unless it's got some must have feature way beyond the HR series, especially since it's going to be more expensive monthly and such.

And if I get one, would you trust getting one on Craigslist or would you get it from Costco, paying a little more, but the assurance that if it doesn't work or goes wrong, it can be replaced?


Personally I would never get a receiver on Craigslist or eBay. But that's just me. But as to your worry about getting it replaced if something goes wrong, well, they are all leased units no matter where you get them with very few exceptions. Unless someone originally paid $500+ to actually buy it then they can't sell it anyway because they have to send it back to DirecTV since it's leased. If you plan to get something used get the serial number and call DirecTV and ask them to check it to see if it's free and clear. Hate for you to buy it and then they can't activate it since the person you bought it from needed to send it back and couldn't sell it.

[DawnW]

Thank you!

I think there is a peace of mind with getting it from Costco.

I am not going anywhere. We had Directv for over 8 years and only stopped when we were told we couldn't get HD. We went to cable and HATED every second of it, so we are most likely going to stick with Directv from now on again. I am hoping that the last several days' hassle with them is over and we can now return to our previous good service and broadcasting through them.

Dawn

I guess it depends on if you plan to stick with DirecTV. Me, I've been with them 13 years and not going anywhere so 2 year commitments don't bother me at all. Me, I've got 2 of the HD DVRs and just deactivated my last DirecTivo a couple months ago because it drove my wife crazy to use it after using the HR2x's for 2 years. When (if) the new DirecTivo comes out I probably won't give it much of a look unless it's got some must have feature way beyond the HR series, especially since it's going to be more expensive monthly and such.



Personally I would never get a receiver on Craigslist or eBay. But that's just me. But as to your worry about getting it replaced if something goes wrong, well, they are all leased units no matter where you get them with very few exceptions. Unless someone originally paid $500+ to actually buy it then they can't sell it anyway because they have to send it back to DirecTV since it's leased. If you plan to get something used get the serial number and call DirecTV and ask them to check it to see if it's free and clear. Hate for you to buy it and then they can't activate it since the person you bought it from needed to send it back and couldn't sell it.

[nrc]

WWYD?

I would stick with cable since I'm fortunate to have service from a provider that outscored DTV in customer satisfaction at a lower cost. If I were in your position I'd assume that the new TiVo will be out in December 2009 and spend my money however that dictates.

At a minimum I'd wait until TiVo's March conference call to see if they have any updates.

[bigpuma]

I would stick with cable since I'm fortunate to have service from a provider that outscored DTV in customer satisfaction at a lower cost. If I were in your position I'd assume that the new TiVo will be out in December 2009 and spend my money however that dictates.

At a minimum I'd wait until TiVo's March conference call to see if they have any updates.

Yeah I think a lot of these decisions come down to what your options are in a given area. If I had a better cable company or if FIOS was available in my area I might look into a TiVo HD. I am not sure if I would base that decision on customer satisfaction surveys though.

[gregftlaud]

i wonder if it will have an ota input

[argicida]

i wonder if it will have an ota input

Tivo would probably prefer that it does but it would hurt DirecTV so I'd bet "no."

[CuriousMark]

Tivo would probably prefer that it does but it would hurt DirecTV so I'd bet "no."

As long as there are areas of the country where they do not provide locals they will need receivers/dvrs that can do OTA. Now congress is trying to push them to eliminate markets without locals, but that will take time, so I put the odds at 50/50 for the moment.

[shibby191]

Tivo would probably prefer that it does but it would hurt DirecTV so I'd bet "no."

Why would it hurt DirecTV, that's just silly. DirecTV offers OTA now for all their HD DVRs so if the Tivo doesn't have OTA built in then I'm sure it will be made to work with the AM21 add-on.

If I had to bet I'd say it would have them built in simply because this is set to be a "premium" product and thus DirecTV isn't going to care much about keeping the cost to a bare minumum.

[nrc]

It's going to be based on a DTV DVR platform so unless DTV has plans for a new model with a built in tuner, I would bet that any OTA support will come via the add-on tuner.

[MattDing]

TiVo released a quarterly investor release today (http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=368436).

The highlight:
Additionally, we continue to work on our new DIRECTV HD DVR. The new HD DVR will include popular TiVo broadband features, and will be immediately accessible to DIRECTV's entire national customer base on day-one of the launch. We have had a very successful history with DIRECTV and those subscribers are some of our most loyal customers. Now, as these customers look to upgrade from standard definition programming, they will have the option to choose the TiVo experience to help them truly get the most out of their high definition viewing experience.

[codespy]

TiVo released a quarterly investor release today (http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=368436).

The highlight:

Good news before I hit the sack. Thanks Matt.

[litzdog911]

TiVo released a quarterly investor release today (http://investor.tivo.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=368436).

The highlight:

Wish they had stated some commitment to a specific launch timeframe.

[newsposter]

so does this mean streaming netfix thru my new tivo?

[NickIN]

so does this mean streaming netfix thru my new tivo?

I'm thinking of all the great features that TiVo provides, this one will conveniently be missing. I don't think there is any way that DirecTV is going to allow Netflix to stream movies essentially for free to their boxes while they are trying to charge $5+ each for the OnDemand movies.

[HiDefGator]

I'm thinking of all the great features that TiVo provides, this one will conveniently be missing. I don't think there is any way that DirecTV is going to allow Netflix to stream movies essentially for free to their boxes while they are trying to charge $5+ each for the OnDemand movies.

I don't see them allowing the DirecTivo's to have netflix either. We'll find out when the beta starts I guess.

[shibby191]

I can do Netflix on the DirecTV DVRs anyway so I could see it either way on the DirecTivo's.

[vphares]

I can do Netflix on the DirecTV DVRs anyway so I could see it either way on the DirecTivo's.

How are you doing Netflix streaming on a DirecTV DVR?

[stevel]

How are you doing Netflix streaming on a DirecTV DVR?

PlayOn (http://www.themediamall.com/playon) Hulu and YouTube too.

[newsposter]

I'm thinking of all the great features that TiVo provides, this one will conveniently be missing. I don't think there is any way that DirecTV is going to allow Netflix to stream movies essentially for free to their boxes while they are trying to charge $5+ each for the OnDemand movies.

i guess i'll have to keep fooling around with tversity then. Got video from the PC working except some issues with xvid.

[sjberra]

I'm thinking of all the great features that TiVo provides, this one will conveniently be missing. I don't think there is any way that DirecTV is going to allow Netflix to stream movies essentially for free to their boxes while they are trying to charge $5+ each for the OnDemand movies.

dont you mean PPV movies? have not been charged to any movie from VOD on the channels that I already recieve. besides with caps being put in place this is going to be an interesting time. Have already disconnected the internet connection from all HR2X boxes and my Media Centers systems.

[NickIN]

dont you mean PPV movies? have not been charged to any movie from VOD on the channels that I already recieve. besides with caps being put in place this is going to be an interesting time. Have already disconnected the internet connection from all HR2X boxes and my Media Centers systems.

You're right. I did mean PPV, but you can download PPV movies via VOD which puts it pretty much in direct competition with streaming from Netflix. I just don't see DirecTV voluntarily opening up their systems to competitors.

[shibby191]

On Tivo's conference call today they didn't mention the new DirecTivo at all and only mentioned DirecTV once. So no new info.

[fasTLane]

On Tivo's conference call today they didn't mention the new DirecTivo at all and only mentioned DirecTV once. So no new info.

"Additionally, we continue to work on our new Direct TV HD DVR. The new HD DVR will include many popular Tivo broadband features and will be immediately accessible to Direct TV's entire national customer base on day one of the launch. We have a very successful history with Direct TV and those subscribers are some of our most loyal customers..." - Thomas Rogers

"And fourth, we will continue to see declines in our Direct TV subscription revenue until our new HD Tivo is offered by Direct TV." - Anna Brunelle

[sjberra]

"Additionally, we continue to work on our new Direct TV HD DVR. The new HD DVR will include many popular Tivo broadband features and will be immediately accessible to Direct TV's entire national customer base on day one of the launch. We have a very successful history with Direct TV and those subscribers are some of our most loyal customers..." - Thomas Rogers

"And fourth, we will continue to see declines in our Direct TV subscription revenue until our new HD Tivo is offered by Direct TV." - Anna Brunelle

and what point are you trying to make? It appears that you just verified what was said - they mentioned it once by name, no meat just marketing hype - aka blue smoke and mirrors. no indication of what year the "day one of launch" will be

[fasTLane]

They didn't mention the new DirecTivo at all? :confused: :rolleyes: :p

[stevel]

They didn't mention the new DirecTivo at all? :confused: :rolleyes: :p
They did and it's the subject of the last half-dozen or so replies here. Admittedly they didn't say much.

[Cutty]

On Tivo's conference call today they didn't mention the new DirecTivo at all and only mentioned DirecTV once. So no new info.

It was an earnings conference call to analysts...You shouldn't expect any type of specific info.

By mentioning it specifically, however, it's safe to say that it's soon. The big takeaway that I noticed was the statement "will be immediately accessible to Direct TV's entire national customer base on day one of the launch." Sounds like they'll be adopting an Apple Computer type strategy where once a new product is announced, it's fully available...Unlike many other companies who announce and rollout way ahead of any reasonable inventory.

[shibby191]

Was not referring to the earnings conference on Monday which was already covered (and while no specifics given the relationship with DirecTV was mentioned a couple times as ramping up by years end, whatever that means).

This was the Deutsche Bank 2009 Media and Telecom Conference on Tuesday (which is why I said "today").

You guys need to keep up. ;)

[fasTLane]

Would love to be a fly on that wall. Got a link? :cool: j/k

[shibby191]

Would love to be a fly on that wall. Got a link? :cool: j/k

My post for "today" was yesterday. The conference call was Tuesday.

Anyway, for those interested there are lots of these thru the year. Just check the investor pages of your favorite companies. For example at the Deutsche Bank conference yesterday DirecTV presented from 12:30 to 1:30 and Tivo presented from 3:00 to 3:30.

http://investor.tivo.com
http://www.directv.com/investor

[bigpuma]

By mentioning it specifically, however, it's safe to say that it's soon. The big takeaway that I noticed was the statement "will be immediately accessible to Direct TV's entire national customer base on day one of the launch." Sounds like they'll be adopting an Apple Computer type strategy where once a new product is announced, it's fully available...

:confused: It was announced months ago.

[newsposter]

so does fully available mean software download for sure?

[NickIN]

so does fully available mean software download for sure?

Part of me sure hopes not, but this made it sound like it. I'm sure the HR2* is fully capable of running TiVo software. But from an aesthetics standpoint, TiVo boxes have always looked better in an equipment rack than anything DirecTV has put out.

[fasTLane]

I am betting the in house box is not able to offer the Tivo dual live tuner function.

[sjberra]

I am betting the in house box is not able to offer the Tivo dual live tuner function.

why not? Would be more willing to be it is a software function rather then hardware, aka it is just how the code for handling the two buffers is setup. Unless you have a link to specifications that show different

[newsposter]

why not? Would be more willing to be it is a software function rather then hardware, aka it is just how the code for handling the two buffers is setup. Unless you have a link to specifications that show different

i had no idea there were links anywhere regarding any definite specs :confused:

ie just because there's no link to something doesnt mean it's not true...if i tell you my kitchen is yellow, will you believe me without a link ;)

[bigpuma]

so does fully available mean software download for sure?

Wouldn't that preclude people who don't have DVRs though. I figured he meant when it becomes available anyone with DirecTV will be able to get it unlike the Comcast TiVo which was rolled out in New England first.

[tivoknucklehead]

PlayOn (http://www.themediamall.com/playon) Hulu and YouTube too.


their website says nothing about Directv DVR support. How does this work?

[sjberra]

i had no idea there were links anywhere regarding any definite specs :confused:

ie just because there's no link to something doesnt mean it's not true...if i tell you my kitchen is yellow, will you believe me without a link ;)

Nope:)

Validation is the life blood of accuracy

[sjberra]

Wouldn't that preclude people who don't have DVRs though. I figured he meant when it becomes available anyone with DirecTV will be able to get it unlike the Comcast TiVo which was rolled out in New England first.


why?, if it becomes available order it, no different then a person wanting to upgrade their reciever to a dvr now.

[bigpuma]

their website says nothing about Directv DVR support. How does this work?

It is very easy. Network you DVR. Download and install Playon. Go to the Pictures music, etc. menu on DVR. Hulu, Netflix, CBS etc. will show up in menus. At least that is how it worked for me.

[bigpuma]

why?, if it becomes available order it, no different then a person wanting to upgrade their reciever to a dvr now.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it won't be a download. I just don't think that is what Tom Rodgers was referring to when he said it would be available to everyone at launch. I don't think his statement indicates either download or new hardware.

[HiDefGator]

Don't get me wrong I am not saying it won't be a download. I just don't think that is what Tom Rodgers was referring to when he said it would be available to everyone at launch. I don't think his statement indicates either download or new hardware.

I agree with you. I believe Rogers was refering to it being available to the entire country at once when it becomes available. This is in contrast to Comcast and Cox that are slowly rolling out area by area.

I don't believe it will be a download option. If that were the case I think someone would have said that clearly. On the other hand I do believe it will be on the standard DVR directv is selling at the time, but preconfigured at the factory. I don't think there will be custom hardware just for the Tivo option.

[stevel]

their website says nothing about Directv DVR support. How does this work?

It does. See http://www.themediamall.com/faq#devices

[tivoknucklehead]

It is very easy. Network you DVR. Download and install Playon. Go to the Pictures music, etc. menu on DVR. Hulu, Netflix, CBS etc. will show up in menus. At least that is how it worked for me.


I'll be damned, it works great. This is awesome

[shibby191]

VERY large thread on DBSTalk discussing the use of PlayOn: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=146003

[nrc]

so does fully available mean software download for sure?

I would bet that it won't be just a download. The information from the agreement that appeared in TiVo's third quarter SEC filing suggests that one of DirecTV's DVRs (existing or new) will be packaged and leased as a DirecTV with TiVo DVR. While the actual statement of work could include a provision for such a download, I don't see much motivation for DirecTV to pay for such a development. They would rather have you pay a fee to get a new DVR and extend your commitment.

I do think it's interesting the Rogers mentioned DTV customers getting TiVo's broadband features. It will be interesting to see just which ones DTV permits.

[fasTLane]

why not? Would be more willing to be it is a software function rather then hardware, aka it is just how the code for handling the two buffers is setup. Unless you have a link to specifications that show different
This forum link could offer a clue as to why not. I don't know. You decide. :o

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=365999

[joed32]

I would bet that it won't be just a download. The information from the agreement that appeared in TiVo's third quarter SEC filing suggests that one of DirecTV's DVRs (existing or new) will be packaged and leased as a DirecTV with TiVo DVR. While the actual statement of work could include a provision for such a download, I don't see much motivation for DirecTV to pay for such a development. They would rather have you pay a fee to get a new DVR and extend your commitment.

I do think it's interesting the Rogers mentioned DTV customers getting TiVo's broadband features. It will be interesting to see just which ones DTV permits.

I agree with you. That will be easier than what they went through with Comcast.

[CuriousMark]

I would bet that it won't be just a download. The information from the agreement that appeared in TiVo's third quarter SEC filing suggests that one of DirecTV's DVRs (existing or new) will be packaged and leased as a DirecTV with TiVo DVR.

Just to confirm your bet, I posted this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7062924#post7062924) in the other thread. Rogers went on record saying that it was not a download.

[shibby191]

The clues to me point to a new DirecTV DVR that can either have it's DVR software on it or the Tivo software on it. So it will be a "download" in that respect, but only on the new receiver. I don't think the Tivo software will be available for download on the current HR20/21/22/23 platform. So perhaps an "HR30" will be made available and will have the option.

[johncoyne]

Yea, Direct TV finally listened because many of us (me included) dropped them like a lead balloon after they decided to end their relationship with TIVO and try and force us to buy their DVR in order to get any new HD channels....well, good luck to them....I switched to Verizon cable and purchased two HD Tivos and am very happy with the service. I would have been happy to remain a Direct TV customer (they still call and want me back, as late as yesterday!) and I tell them the reason I left..."no Tivo, no me".
I still have my Direct TV equipment...any buyers???? Long live Tivo!:)
John, NY

[HiDefGator]

Yea, Direct TV finally listened because many of us (me included) dropped them like a lead balloon after they decided to end their relationship with TIVO ...

I'm more inclined to believe they signed a new deal with Tivo because they needed to keep around a million SD Tivo boxes active and they didn't want to be sued for possible IP infringement. If there was a mass exodus of subscribers over them dropping Tivo you certainly couldn't see it in their reported subscriber counts or churn rate.

[classicsat]

I'm more with Johncoyne. People have been dumping DirecTV for a Series 3/TiVoHD and cable/FIOS/OTA, because having TiVo is more important than the service it is connected to. DirecTV wants to get TiVo back to get the TiVo numbers back, or keep further customers from leaving DirecTV.

IP is not a valid reason. Their last contract included no-sue language, plus since they own the Replay-TV IP, they can just as easily use that without risk of suits from TiVo.

[HiDefGator]

I'm more with Johncoyne. People have been dumping DirecTV for a Series 3/TiVoHD and cable/FIOS/OTA, because having TiVo is more important than the service it is connected to.

Yet with all the dumping, Tivo's subscriber counts are dropping. There are Tivo faithful, but they are not the majority. On the other hand Directv has been signing up 100's of thousands of new HD subscribers each quarter.

[shibby191]

I'm more with Johncoyne. People have been dumping DirecTV for a Series 3/TiVoHD and cable/FIOS/OTA, because having TiVo is more important than the service it is connected to. DirecTV wants to get TiVo back to get the TiVo numbers back, or keep further customers from leaving DirecTV.

IP is not a valid reason. Their last contract included no-sue language, plus since they own the Replay-TV IP, they can just as easily use that without risk of suits from TiVo.

Let's step into reality. People have not been dumping DirecTV in droves. Their sub numbers are up by record numbers and their churn is down by record numbers. Sure, some people have left but most have not. Or if a lot did, more actually signed up then continuing record net growth which frankly is all that matters.

Also nearly 50% of all their subscribers have a DVR now, very few of them Tivo based.

The main basic reason for the new contract is twofold:
1) The old one was expiring and support needed to continue for the few DirecTivo's left. Thus a renewal of the support contract.
2) The new contract renewed the no sue clause that Tivo can't sue DirecTV and also added that DirecTV can't sue Tivo (which became more a concern now that DirecTV owns Replay's patents).

That's pretty much it. They also agreed that DirecTV will pay more in fees to Tivo and DirecTV finally said "ok, sure, build a new box and we'll pass on the fees to the customer" (a common issue with this before was that Tivo wanted more but DirecTV was unwilling to pass the cost on) thus why the new box will cost more to have, as a "premium" product. It's a no lose situation for DirecTV. If the new Tivo box fails, no problem, most of their subs don't use a Tivo box anyway and don't care. If it's a success then they make more money. For Tivo it's a win-lose. Win if it's a success and bad news if it's a failure.

[bigpuma]

I'm more with Johncoyne. People have been dumping DirecTV for a Series 3/TiVoHD and cable/FIOS/OTA, because having TiVo is more important than the service it is connected to. DirecTV wants to get TiVo back to get the TiVo numbers back, or keep further customers from leaving DirecTV.

IP is not a valid reason. Their last contract included no-sue language, plus since they own the Replay-TV IP, they can just as easily use that without risk of suits from TiVo.

If this is true why did churn go down after DirecTV dropped TiVo? Sure it is true they changed their strategy to go after lower risk subscribers but if people were dropping TiVo in droves and you and Johncoyne are suggesting wouldn't you expect the churn to at least go up a little.

[sluciani]

Let's step into reality. People have not been dumping DirecTV in droves. Their sub numbers are up by record numbers and their churn is down by record numbers. Sure, some people have left but most have not. Or if a lot did, more actually signed up then continuing record net growth which frankly is all that matters.

Also nearly 50% of all their subscribers have a DVR now, very few of them Tivo based.

The main basic reason for the new contract is twofold:
1) The old one was expiring and support needed to continue for the few DirecTivo's left. Thus a renewal of the support contract.
2) The new contract renewed the no sue clause that Tivo can't sue DirecTV and also added that DirecTV can't sue Tivo (which became more a concern now that DirecTV [owns the Replay patents.]

That's pretty much it. They also agreed that DirecTV will pay more in fees to Tivo and DirecTV finally said "ok, sure, build a new box and we'll pass on the fees to the customer" (a common issue with this before was that Tivo wanted more but DirecTV was unwilling to pass the cost on) thus why the new box will cost more to have, as a "premium" product. It's a no lose situation for DirecTV. If the new Tivo box fails, no problem, most of their subs don't use a Tivo box anyway and don't care. If it's a success then they make more money. For Tivo it's a win-lose. Win if it's a success and bad news if it's a failure.Ding! Ding! Ding! Couldn't agree more with your facts and assessment of the deal. No lose for DirecTV and very important to TiVo. In 2006, DirecTV subs represented 2/3 of all TiVo subscribers. /steve

[HiDefGator]

the sad part is that by the time they actually start offering the new DTivo there will be less than a million old DTivo's left active to upgrade. And many of the ones left already have an HR20 sitting next to them.

[nrc]

Let's step into reality. People have not been dumping DirecTV in droves. Their sub numbers are up by record numbers and their churn is down by record numbers. Sure, some people have left but most have not. Or if a lot did, more actually signed up then continuing record net growth which frankly is all that matters.

DirecTV's disconnects are also at record numbers. Yes, DirecTV has avoided any obvious impact from dropping TiVo through a combination of a compelling HDTV offering, Sunday Ticket exclusivity, and tightened credit policies. But they can't count on record gross adds from those factors for much longer. DirecTV has a reason associated with each of those 3 million disconnects and only they know how many of them say, "Your DVR sucks."

Also nearly 50% of all their subscribers have a DVR now, very few of them Tivo based.

The main basic reason for the new contract is twofold:
1) The old one was expiring and support needed to continue for the few DirecTivo's left. Thus a renewal of the support contract.

So there are "very few" TiVos left, but they needed to agree to pay TiVo to develop new HD DVR software and pay them substantially higher fees in order to maintain support for those "very few" TiVos? That makes sense. Strike a more expensive deal that will leave you in the exact same position the next time around.

2) The new contract renewed the no sue clause that Tivo can't sue DirecTV and also added that DirecTV can't sue Tivo (which became more a concern now that DirecTV owns Replay's patents).
The latter part is not true. The clause for DirecTV not to sue has been in place since at least the 7th restatement of the agreement in 2006.

http://www.secinfo.com/d14D5a.v3Skd.d.htm

“7.5. DIRECTV Covenant

(a) Covenant. During the Term (and thereafter as set forth in Section 7.5(b)), DIRECTV covenants that neither DIRECTV, Group, nor any of the other DIRECTV Subsidiaries shall assert against TiVo, TiVo’s Subsidiaries, any claim of infringement of any patent or patent application (including any patent(s) which may issue therefrom) owned or controlled by DIRECTV, Group, or any of the other DIRECTV Subsidiaries during the Term (collectively, “DIRECTV Patents”) by any TiVo Covered System...

[sjberra]

I am confused here - if Directv's churn rate is down in record numbers how can they be losing subscribers in record numbers?

Was under the inpression that churn and disconnect is the same thing

[Hersheytx]

No way did Directv loose 3 million subscribers last year.
Heck Dish got hammered because they lost 100K last quarter.
If Directv would have losted that many they would have seen their stock drop down to the level of EchoStar. (pennies a share).

I am a devout TIVO fan. I still have an HDTIVO and SD TIVO hooked up on my account. But I also have three HD DVRs (HR20,21,22) on my account.
And they are not that bad. They do the job and record what I want to watch.

Now would I buy the new HD TIVO coming out this year? YOU BET YA!
WIll I replace everything I have with TIVOs. Probably not. I like a lot of stuff Directv has done. THat is why I became a customer in November of 94.

I remember Cable. I remember the promises. I remember the outages. I remember the bad picture. I remember the customer service from hell. I remember how happy Directv has made my television viewing.
Every year they lead in giving me more for my money. HD programming. More channels. More HD DVR functions. VOD. Heck cable never even cared about me until I left.

I have friends that I got hooked on TIVO and Directv. We all feel that a new TIVO HD Box will sell. But none of us have jumped ship. Sure we miss the Tivo interface. I can still use a Tivo remote in the dark with one hand. Still have a problem with the Directv HD remote. Damn those colored buttons!!!

But lets be honest. It was Directv that started with TIVO. They were the leaders of the pack. Always trying to make things better. So give it a rest on all this hype that we are jumping ship.
If you want to jump, jump. I for one will stick with Directv and get my new HD TIVO later this year.

[dswallow]

I am confused here - if Directv's churn rate is down in record numbers how can they be losing subscribers in record numbers?

Was under the inpression that churn and disconnect is the same thing

From DirecTV 10-K filings:

Average Monthly Subscriber Churn. Average monthly subscriber churn represents the number of subscribers whose service is disconnected, expressed as a percentage of the average total number of subscribers. We calculate average monthly subscriber churn by dividing the average monthly number of disconnected subscribers for the period (total subscribers disconnected, net of reconnects, during the period divided by the number of months in the period) by average subscribers for the period.

As I understand that, it means...

On 11/6/2008 DirecTV reported a US monthly churn rate of 1.64% and 17,320,000 for the period ending 9/30/2008. That's 3,408,576 subscriptions churning over the course of a single year; i.e., 3,408,576 lost subscriptions and had to be replaced by new subscriptions.

[shibby191]

People like to pick out numbers like "x million disconnects" and so forth but let's again look at reality.

Every single one of these business's has 4 numbers:

Disconnects
Gross adds (how many total were added)
Net add/loss of subs (the difference between the two)
Churn (% of subs leaving)

The only number that matters in the end is the Net adds/loss

So to pull numbers out of thin air:
3 million leave
4 million join (gross adds)
This means you had 1 million Net adds.

Churn is the % of your total that left (in simple terms).

So the only numbers that matter to these companies are the net additions and the churn.
Net additions are going really good for DirecTV and have for a few years.
Churn is way down and has been in good shape for a year or two now.

This means that *less* subscribers are leaving as a % of their total and they are adding more new subs.

This is all positive.

I do love how some people always pull out the number that left and concentrate on that one. All these companies have hundreds of thousands if not millions that leave every year. DirecTV has lost millions of subs every year for over a decade. No biggy. This number as a total really doesn't matter. What matters is what % of the total is that number (churn) and how many new people did they get to replace. In these cases DirecTV, unlike Dish and a lot of cable companies, are in great shape. The only ones in good shape in this right now is FIOS, Uverse and DirecTV. Everyone else has negative adds and high churn.

Also very interesting is the 4th quarter, the first quarter where the initial HR20 wave are off commitment had the lowest churn in many years and the highest net adds in a few years as well.

So lets live in reality, not some fantasy land. :D

But hey, believe whatever you want, it's all good.

[HiDefGator]

On 11/6/2008 DirecTV reported a US monthly churn rate of 1.64% and 17,320,000 for the period ending 9/30/2008. That's 3,408,576 subscriptions churning over the course of a single year; i.e., 3,408,576 lost subscriptions and had to be replaced by new subscriptions.

and roughly 500K of those "turn off's" each year were SD Tivo's which is a big number. But we don't know what the natural turn off rate would have been if they were still offering Tivo the entire time. People die, hard drives die, power surges, trees block the line of site, cable makes them a triple play deal, etc.

If they were that concerned about it they sure waited one heck of a long time to get concerned enough to sign a new deal.

[HiDefGator]

So there are "very few" TiVos left, but they needed to agree to pay TiVo to develop new HD DVR software and pay them substantially higher fees in order to maintain support for those "very few" TiVos? That makes sense. Strike a more expensive deal that will leave you in the exact same position the next time around.


But it isn't more expensive for Directv. They will only be paying Tivo this time around for the customers that agree to pay extra for Tivo. That will most likely be in the single digits pecentage wise. And all of the extra payment will come straight from the customers.

[shibby191]

If they were that concerned about it they sure waited one heck of a long time to get concerned enough to sign a new deal.

Exactly, they aren't that concerned about it. The new deal is a no lose situation for DirecTV which probably wasn't the case before according to many reports. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain in this new deal. If Tivo doesn't come thru they haven't lost anything other then some investment money and even that probably isn't all that much since the new box will most likely run either Tivo or DirecTV software, you take your pick, pay more if you want Tivo. Thus there isn't any new hardware that DirecTV is developing beyond what they already were for their own platform.

[sluciani]

DirecTV's disconnects are also at record numbers. Yes, DirecTV has avoided any obvious impact from dropping TiVo through a combination of a compelling HDTV offering, Sunday Ticket exclusivity, and tightened credit policies. But they can't count on record gross adds from those factors for much longer. DirecTV has a reason associated with each of those 3 million disconnects and only they know how many of them say, "Your DVR sucks."The facts tell a different story. Latest numbers reported by DirecTV in February show that churn dropped from 1.64% to 1.47% in the 4th quarter, at the same time they added more US subs (301,000) than they had in 3 years, when the DirecTiVo was their only HD DVR. And bear in mind that unlike 3 years ago, more than 50% of all subscribers now own DVR's.

In 2006, DirecTV's 2,873,000 TiVo subscribers accounted for 2/3 of all TiVo subs, including "lifetimes". Today, by conservative estimates, DirecTV has already shipped over 6,000,000 HR2x DVR's. With churn at a 9 year low, DirecTV's customer satisfaction is as good as it's been at any time DirecTiVo's were the only game in town, so TiVo needs to get this new box out the door ASAP before the window of opportunity closes any more.

I say this because as a TiVo early adopter and user from 1999-2007, IMO, the HR2x is now good enough that once a customer becomes accustomed to using it, the likelihood of that customer swapping it for a DirecTiVo will be extremely low. /steve

[sluciani]

Exactly, they aren't that concerned about it. The new deal is a no lose situation for DirecTV which probably wasn't the case before according to many reports. They have nothing to lose and everything to gain in this new deal. If Tivo doesn't come thru they haven't lost anything other then some investment money and even that probably isn't all that much since the new box will most likely run either Tivo or DirecTV software, you take your pick, pay more if you want Tivo. Thus there isn't any new hardware that DirecTV is developing beyond what they already were for their own platform.Exactly right. They're making the boxes anyway, so no extra $$$ there. And even with the minimum payouts if #'s aren't met, I'm guessing that is not going to be much more than the SAC $$$ they spend to acquire non-TiVo customers.

It's less about retention, IMO, because the # of TiVo users who left because their HR10 can't pick up the MPEG-4 channels is probably no more than a rounding error, given the attractive equipment deals they offered. /steve

[Lowcarb]

It's less about retention, IMO, because the # of TiVo users who left because their HR10 can't pick up the MPEG-4 channels is probably no more than a rounding error, given the attractive equipment deals they offered. /steve

I didn't leave but I haven't upgraded to HD yet either.
Originally line of site to 101W was my issue. Now the new sats make that a minor issue.

I'm holding out for a HD -DVR w/Tivo. I refuse to go to a DirecTV dvr w/o it.

If DirecTV can not deliver on this then I most likely will become a "retention statistic" and go to package deal with Optimum Cable who already provides my internet on cable. Optimum will be happy. DirecTV and Frontier will each lose a customer.
If I have to have a dumb dvr it can be Optimum's as easily as DirecTV's and with Optimum I'd have the option of using Stand Alone Tivo.

[sluciani]

I didn't leave but I haven't upgraded to HD yet either.
Originally line of site to 101W was my issue. Now the new sats make that a minor issue.

I'm holding out for a HD -DVR w/Tivo. I refuse to go to a DirecTV dvr w/o it.

If DirecTV can not deliver on this then I most likely will become a "retention statistic" and go to package deal with Optimum Cable who already provides my internet on cable. Optimum will be happy. DirecTV and Frontier will each lose a customer.
If I have to have a dumb dvr it can be Optimum's as easily as DirecTV's and with Optimum I'd have the option of using Stand Alone Tivo.I give you credit for holding out this long. We're all in Westchester county and my daughter uses an Optimum DVR and my son a FiOS DVR, so I'm very familiar with both. Given a choice between either of those and the HR2x, it's really no contest in my mind. The HR2x is much more feature rich than the Optimum box, especially in the area of search and autorecord (Wish List) capability, and the FiOS DVR only offers 20 hours of HD storage, which wouldn't hold a week of my recordings and my wife's.

I'm curious why a TiVo fan like you would leave for another DVR, assuming channel selection and pricing were comparable? I would understand if you left for a cableco that allowed you to use a TiVoHD or TiVoHD XL, but not simply to steer clear of the HR2x platform.

I use DirecTV, Vonage and FiOS internet, and I pay $167/month for all three. That includes 6 DVR's and one HD box. With a single DVR, it would cost me $137/month, including all taxes and fees. /steve

[fasTLane]

Tivo is my preference too. I still use the Direct crippled version with fewer hd channels but hey, the OTA hd will hold me out until the new wonderbox is delivered. ;)

[HiDefGator]

Tivo is my preference too. I still use the Direct crippled version with fewer hd channels but hey, the OTA hd will hold me out until the new wonderbox is delivered. ;)

You guys impress me with your Tivo loyalty. I had a standalone series one, then SD Dtivo. I bought one of the first HR10's to come off the line. And I'll be the first to admit the HR20 is no Tivo. But giving up the dozens of HD channels that I get today with the HR20 to wait on a real Tivo is something I couldn't do.

[Lowcarb]

I'm curious why a TiVo fan like you would leave for another DVR, assuming channel selection and pricing were comparable? I would understand if you left for a cableco that allowed you to use a TiVoHD or TiVoHD XL, but not simply to steer clear of the HR2x platform.

I use DirecTV, Vonage and FiOS internet, and I pay $167/month for all three. That includes 6 DVR's and one HD box. With a single DVR, it would cost me $137/month, including all taxes and fees. /steve

I probably won't leave for a cableco dvr since that won't be any better, and as you suggest could be worse, than the directv dvr.
If I leave it will be for cableco + Tivo

I'm in the country and do not have the option of service from a major teleco.

BTW I'm equivalently paying :
$62 DirecTV (Total Choice, standard def + 2 DVRs)
$50 OptimumOnline internet
$25 Frontier Communications, local teleco service.
------
$137

I'm paying the same as you and I don't have HD! :eek:

[sluciani]

Tivo is my preference too. I still use the Direct crippled version with fewer hd channels but hey, the OTA hd will hold me out until the new wonderbox is delivered. ;)If it wasn't for the fact that I needed to switch to get the Yankee games in HD (MPEG-4 only) back in 2007, I'd probably have hung onto my four HR10's as well. At the time, my only alternative was switching to Optimum cable and buying four TiVo series 3's at about $600 each, plus $50+/month for TiVo listings on top of Cablevision's fees. Would have cost me a small fortune vs. my DirecTV charges at the time. /steve

[sluciani]

BTW I'm equivalently paying :
$62 DirecTV (Total Choice, standard def + 2 DVRs)
$50 OptimumOnline internet
$25 Frontier Communications, local teleco service.
------
$137

I'm paying the same as you and I don't have HD! :eek:You're paying $10 more for Internet than me. I'm grandfathered in to a $40/month Verizon FiOS deal from 2006. That $10 covers my HD access fee. My $137 is for one box, you've got two, but I also have the D* $6/month protection plan.

The real difference is on the plan and the 6 other boxes. I pay $30/month for 5 more DVR's and one standard HD box. With Cablevision, that would cost almost $60/month. And their equivalent of Total Choice is $20/month more. That's about $600 a year more if I switch, and still no TiVo.

Even more expensive alternative is to spend $200 up front each for TiVoHD's and pay $15 month each ($13 to TiVo plus $2 cablecard). Definitely not worth it for me, now that I'm happy with the HR2x's. /steve

[sjberra]

and roughly 500K of those "turn off's" each year were SD Tivo's which is a big number. But we don't know what the natural turn off rate would have been if they were still offering Tivo the entire time. People die, hard drives die, power surges, trees block the line of site, cable makes them a triple play deal, etc.

If they were that concerned about it they sure waited one heck of a long time to get concerned enough to sign a new deal.

Is there a missing one also - how many of the turn-offs where conversion to HD units, personally in that catagory, upgraded my kids Phillips to a HR2X HD unit. So a SD tivo was turned off

[klm]

I was told if you try to close out your DirecTV account for issues with your old TiVo DVR they put you on a waiting list of sorts for the new release.. Dont know for sure whats really going on behind dtvs closed doors..
__________________

[litzdog911]

I was told if you try to close out your DirecTV account for issues with your old TiVo DVR they put you on a waiting list of sorts for the new release.. Dont know for sure whats really going on behind dtvs closed doors..
__________________

I've never heard that.

[Scopeman]

The only number that matters in the end is the Net adds/loss.

That is completely wrong - your answer implies that the adds and the losses all have the same profitability and cost to DTV.

But we all know that is not correct, because a new add costs a lot in new subscriber discounts, installation, etc. Plus the marketing costs to attract them.

That is why churn rate is a CRITICAL metric that is watched by analysts; it is a representation of a cost in the business (customer acquisition costs) as well as a reflection of what percent of the installed base is higher margin retention customers providing steady revenue streams.

If only NET add/loss mattered then the entire customer base could swap out (100% churn) and there would be no implied problem. Clearly that is not the case.

[shibby191]

That is completely wrong - your answer implies that the adds and the losses all have the same profitability and cost to DTV.

But we all know that is not correct, because a new add costs a lot in new subscriber discounts, installation, etc. Plus the marketing costs to attract them.

That is why churn rate is a CRITICAL metric that is watched by analysts; it is a representation of a cost in the business (customer acquisition costs) as well as a reflection of what percent of the installed base is higher margin retention customers providing steady revenue streams.

If only NET add/loss mattered then the entire customer base could swap out (100% churn) and there would be no implied problem. Clearly that is not the case.

You are certainly correct. And it's another tip of the hat to DirecTV since they have the lowest churn they've had in nearly a decade. :)

[sluciani]

[...] That is why churn rate is a CRITICAL metric that is watched by analysts; [...]Churn is also an indicator of customer dissatisfaction. And yes, DirecTV's churn rate is at a 9-year low... even lower than the period of time DirecTiVo's were the only Direct DVR's available. TiVo needs to get their new box out the door ASAP, IMO, if they hope to make any significant inroads into the DirecTV HD subscriber base.

Given how similar the TiVoHD hardware is to the HR2x platform, I'm frankly surprised that 6 months after the announcement, we still haven't heard anything about a beta. /steve

[sluciani]

TiVo's 4/3/09 10-k filing (http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/xml/download.php?repo=tenk&ipage=6251177&format=PDF) indicates that the new DirecTiVo won't be available until "calendar year" 2010.

Marketwatch story here (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/10-k-tivo-inc/story.aspx?guid={02899020-E40D-41D5-AE9E-B9E626C05B8A}&dist=msr_4). /steve

[shibby191]

TiVo's 4/3/09 10-k filing (http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/xml/download.php?repo=tenk&ipage=6251177&format=PDF) indicates that the new DirecTiVo won't be available until "calendar year" 2010.

Marketwatch story here (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/10-k-tivo-inc/story.aspx?guid={02899020-E40D-41D5-AE9E-B9E626C05B8A}&dist=msr_4). /steve

LOL. Imagine that, I've been saying that for 6 months. Tivo never delivers anything on time. :rolleyes: ;)

[bitmap]

TiVo's 4/3/09 10-k filing (http://ccbn.10kwizard.com/xml/download.php?repo=tenk&ipage=6251177&format=PDF) indicates that the new DirecTiVo won't be available until "calendar year" 2010.

This text from their filing troubles me greatly:
"We have agreed to work with DIRECTV to develop a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled HD DVR platform"

This makes it sound like tivo software running on the existing D*TV hardware.
I think most have heard of the mess that is the Comcast DVR running Tivo code.

Why can't they get that I don't want a D*TV DVR with Tivo,
I want a _TIVO_ with D*TV tuners?

[nrc]

This makes it sound like tivo software running on the existing D*TV hardware.
I think most have heard of the mess that is the Comcast DVR running Tivo code.

That's exactly what the agreement calls for. Except that it may be a new DTV DVR rather than an existing one. In fact, that could be the reason for the delay.

I don't think that you need to worry about the ComCast situation with the new DTiVo. The problem there is that ComCast has taken an underpowered box and asked TiVo to rewrite their interface in Java and put it on top of the existing Comcast software. On top of that they asked them to have it load and install remotely which created even more problems.

The hardware in DTV's DVRs appears to be very comparable to that in the latest TiVo hardware. The devil is in the details, but there's no reason to think that TiVo software won't run just fine. It's also likely that this box will be packaged and sold as a TiVo box and not software downloaded to an existing DTV DVR.

[cramer]

This makes it sound like tivo software running on the existing D*TV hardware.
I think most have heard of the mess that is the Comcast DVR running Tivo code.
The Comcast system is very different. There, tivo runs on top of the OCAP middleware -- making it an OCAP application. They weren't able or allowed to program the hardware directly as they do on their own systems -- it'd take too many years to get past Motorola (who makes the box) and Cablelabs (who bless all cablecard hardware.)

With the DTV hardware, one would assume Directv would give them the full specs to the system to port their existing "mess" to it. Having never seen the insides of one of those HR2x critters, I have no idea how much work would be involved in getting their code working on it. Adding to the work is the need to handle DVB-S2 in addition to DSS. (DSS code they already have from the existing DTivo line.)

And they already said, "not this year" at this year's CES. If they were going to have something this year, I'm fairly certain they would've had a prototype of it at CES (like they did the DTivo and "series 3") -- 'tho it would look nothing like the finished unit. (e.g. the "cablecard tivo" demo was in a DSR-6000 body -- an AT&T S2.5 as I recall.)

[sluciani]

There's little difference between the hardware architecture of the BCM7401-based TiVoHD and the DirecTV BCM7401-based HR21, so the current DirecTV HR2x platform should be up to the task. As nrc and cramer state, this wouldn't be middleware. It should run natively, much like the current DirecTiVo software does. /steve

[tgibbs]

That's exactly what the agreement calls for. Except that it may be a new DTV DVR rather than an existing one. In fact, that could be the reason for the delay.

That is certainly implied by the statement, "Under the terms of our non-exclusive arrangement, we are working with DIRECTV and its suppliers to develop a version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV’s broadband-enabled HD DVR platform to deliver the new HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service to DIRECTV for a launch to consumers as soon as possible in calendar year 2010."

[hbergh]

"Tivo Service", that's just the part where the box calls home and gets suggestions? The part that you get when you plug it into your phone line? Maybe that's all it is. Oh, and you'll need a new remote, with two thumbs.

[dyanni]

I held on. I still use my DirecTivo exclusively - have been called and offered free dvrs from Directv several times over the past year to 'upgrade' ... and I tell them no - and tell them why ( I love Tivo ) - and each time they take away another HD channel I can watch on my HR10 - I call now and ask when the new Tivo will be out and they say ... we dont' know... but hey let us give you one of ours for free. . .. ... .... I talk ... and they don't hear ...

I still pay 92 bucks a month and get fewer and fewer HD channels. My patience is wearing thin. I've started watching the free stuf. Payon is awesome. Netflix does a great job for a lot less than DirecTV - in my situation. - then there is always always the internet jungle to play in.

Guys - how long is the estimated wait ? The economy sucks - I think I might be able to live without the 92.00 a month support payment to DirecTV that I now mostly consider a loss ... The longer it takes DirecTV to finally push - and pop out this baby - the less and less importance I place on my susbcription to their service.
No way did Directv loose 3 million subscribers last year.
Heck Dish got hammered because they lost 100K last quarter.
If Directv would have losted that many they would have seen their stock drop down to the level of EchoStar. (pennies a share).

I am a devout TIVO fan. I still have an HDTIVO and SD TIVO hooked up on my account. But I also have three HD DVRs (HR20,21,22) on my account.
And they are not that bad. They do the job and record what I want to watch.

Now would I buy the new HD TIVO coming out this year? YOU BET YA!
WIll I replace everything I have with TIVOs. Probably not. I like a lot of stuff Directv has done. THat is why I became a customer in November of 94.

I remember Cable. I remember the promises. I remember the outages. I remember the bad picture. I remember the customer service from hell. I remember how happy Directv has made my television viewing.
Every year they lead in giving me more for my money. HD programming. More channels. More HD DVR functions. VOD. Heck cable never even cared about me until I left.

I have friends that I got hooked on TIVO and Directv. We all feel that a new TIVO HD Box will sell. But none of us have jumped ship. Sure we miss the Tivo interface. I can still use a Tivo remote in the dark with one hand. Still have a problem with the Directv HD remote. Damn those colored buttons!!!

But lets be honest. It was Directv that started with TIVO. They were the leaders of the pack. Always trying to make things better. So give it a rest on all this hype that we are jumping ship.
If you want to jump, jump. I for one will stick with Directv and get my new HD TIVO later this year.

[sjberra]

I held on. I still use my DirecTivo exclusively - have been called and offered free dvrs from Directv several times over the past year to 'upgrade' ... and I tell them no - and tell them why ( I love Tivo ) - and each time they take away another HD channel I can watch on my HR10 - I call now and ask when the new Tivo will be out and they say ... we dont' know... but hey let us give you one of ours for free. . .. ... .... I talk ... and they don't hear ...

I still pay 92 bucks a month and get fewer and fewer HD channels. My patience is wearing thin. I've started watching the free stuf. Payon is awesome. Netflix does a great job for a lot less than DirecTV - in my situation. - then there is always always the internet jungle to play in.

Guys - how long is the estimated wait ? The economy sucks - I think I might be able to live without the 92.00 a month support payment to DirecTV that I now mostly consider a loss ... The longer it takes DirecTV to finally push - and pop out this baby - the less and less importance I place on my susbcription to their service.

Mentioned in this thread - sometime in 2010

[fasTLane]

I held on. I still use my DirecTivo exclusively - have been called and offered free dvrs from Directv several times over the past year to 'upgrade' ... and I tell them no - and tell them why ( I love Tivo ) - and each time they take away another HD channel I can watch on my HR10 - I call now and ask when the new Tivo will be out and they say ... we dont' know... but hey let us give you one of ours for free. . .. ... .... I talk ... and they don't hear ...

I still pay 92 bucks a month and get fewer and fewer HD channels. My patience is wearing thin. I've started watching the free stuf. Payon is awesome. Netflix does a great job for a lot less than DirecTV - in my situation. - then there is always always the internet jungle to play in.

Guys - how long is the estimated wait ? The economy sucks - I think I might be able to live without the 92.00 a month support payment to DirecTV that I now mostly consider a loss ... The longer it takes DirecTV to finally push - and pop out this baby - the less and less importance I place on my susbcription to their service.My sentiments exactly.

[dyanni]

2010!

Well - on the bright side - I guess that could translate into a thousand dollar savings between now and then.

Mentioned in this thread - sometime in 2010

[tgibbs]

I held on. I still use my DirecTivo exclusively - have been called and offered free dvrs from Directv several times over the past year to 'upgrade' ... and I tell them no - and tell them why ( I love Tivo ) - and each time they take away another HD channel I can watch on my HR10 - I call now and ask when the new Tivo will be out and they say ... we dont' know... but hey let us give you one of ours for free. . .. ... .... I talk ... and they don't hear ...

I still pay 92 bucks a month and get fewer and fewer HD channels. My patience is wearing thin. I've started watching the free stuf. Payon is awesome. Netflix does a great job for a lot less than DirecTV - in my situation. - then there is always always the internet jungle to play in.

Guys - how long is the estimated wait ? The economy sucks - I think I might be able to live without the 92.00 a month support payment to DirecTV that I now mostly consider a loss ... The longer it takes DirecTV to finally push - and pop out this baby - the less and less importance I place on my susbcription to their service.

I'm in the same boat. I get most of my HD OTA, so I'm inclined to limp along with the HR10, but if it's going to be next year, I I'm thinking that I may drop back to a cheaper class of DirecTV service as the premium HD channels go away. If they had not announced a new DirecTiVo, I'd have already have jumped ship to Comcast. I have a Series 3 (currently OTA only) so I could always add a cable card to that

I'm not interested in a non-TiVo DVR. I've seen some, and have been unimpressed. The only reason why I went to DirecTV in the first place was for HD TiVo service

[fasTLane]

I'm not interested in a non-TiVo DVR. I've seen some, and have been unimpressed. The only reason why I went to DirecTV in the first place was for HD TiVo serviceMy sentiments exactly.

[dyanni]

The lastest 'offer you can't refuse'

Important News About Your HD Service



Dear Donny, (yawn)


There is an important change to your HD service we want to inform you about.


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Please call 1-888-763-7772 today, and DIRECTV will replace your incompatible HD equipment FREE OF CHARGE, with no service agreement required. Mention the "FREE HD SWAP" and we'll get your replacement equipment set up as soon as possible.


Here are some additional benefits of replacing your current equipment:


• More channels in HD: The new HD broadcasting method will allow DIRECTV to deliver more channels in HD. We recently launched 130 HD channels with this new method, and more are coming soon.


• The latest equipment—FREE: The HD programming you currently enjoy—including NFL games, ESPN, ESPN2, TNT, HDNet, HBO®, SHOWTIME®, prime-time shows and major network events—will need the latest HD equipment to be viewed in HD.



We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause. :confused: BUT WE DONT CARE :mad: We are working to continue improving your HD experience. Thank you for being a loyal DIRECTV customer.


no thanks.

[sk33t3r]

Just called and got my Hr10-250 upgrade or downgraded to a new HD DVR, no idea what model. I can also upgrade my non DVR legacy receivers to new ones for $20 shipping and I can upgrade one of my S2 std dvr to a new dvr for free as well. Should I keep the Tivo boxes as they are all tweaked!!!

[stevel]

The HR10 is still useful as a large-capacity SD recorder with network features and HDMI out. It makes more sense to keep that running than the HDVR2s.

[fasTLane]

Cant wait to get one of those beta tested HR2x DLB's and HR-HR MRV. yuk yuk

[litzdog911]

Cant wait to get one of those beta tested HR2x DLB's and HR-HR MRV. yuk yuk

You might want to provide a bit more information for those that haven't yet heard that Dual Live Buffers was just released for beta testing on the DirecTV DVRs ....

This was just posted in the DirecTV Support Forum, and several posts at DBSTalk also ....

I know many of you have wanted DLB (Dual Live Buffers) for the HD DVRs so I am posting this update for you. It has been posted on some of the other public sat forums that DLB has entered testing and I can confirm that. The test software has two 90-minute buffers (bigger than the TiVo buffers), one for each tuner, and allows you to flip between tuners in a mode similar to TiVo. Early days yet, it started test yesterday, but I assume we will see this feature in a future national release of the software for the HR2x DVRs.

[argicida]

I know many of you have wanted DLB (Dual Live Buffers) for the HD DVRs so I am posting this update for you. It has been posted on some of the other public sat forums that DLB has entered testing and I can confirm that. The test software has two 90-minute buffers (bigger than the TiVo buffers), one for each tuner, and allows you to flip between tuners in a mode similar to TiVo. Early days yet, it started test yesterday, but I assume we will see this feature in a future national release of the software for the HR2x DVRs.


Interesting. Tivo is usually pretty good about patenting their unique features. I wonder if DirecTV is using a different method to obtain the same reult.

[stevel]

I'm not aware that TiVo has a patent on DLB, and it has been stated several times from those who should know that patents were not the issue. In any event, DirecTV and TiVo have a patent-licensing arrangement.

[argicida]

I'm not aware that TiVo has a patent on DLB, and it has been stated several times from those who should know that patents were not the issue. In any event, DirecTV and TiVo have a patent-licensing arrangement.

I'm certainly not aware of it either - but lacked reports anybody with knowledge. That also makes sense about the patent licensing... except it would appear Tivo has not licensed everything to D*.

[shibby191]

Interesting. Tivo is usually pretty good about patenting their unique features. I wonder if DirecTV is using a different method to obtain the same reult.

Well, since there is nothing unique about DLB and just about every DVR on the planet has DLB I'd say that Tivo doesn't have a patent for it. ;)

[newsposter]

end of this year!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/29/new-directv-tivo-hd-still-on-schedule-for-this-year/

[BGLeduc]

end of this year!

http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/04/29/new-directv-tivo-hd-still-on-schedule-for-this-year/

Great news if true, but I would like to see something more then "some dude got it via Twitter". ;)

As one of those head in the sand types that will not even consider a non-Tivo, this can not come soon enough.

Brian

[20TIL6]

Well, since there is nothing unique about DLB and just about every DVR on the planet has DLB I'd say that Tivo doesn't have a patent for it. ;)

A more accurate statement is that some DVR providers have licensing agreements and/or other partnership arrangements with TiVo that provide for adequate immunity from infringement litigation. Still, some DVR providers have no agreement with TiVo, and have not faced infringement charges. One DVR provider has no agreement with TiVo, and they have been found guilty of patent infringement. So I don't think we can assume this is a patent issue, when it could simply be an agreement issue.

[sjberra]

Great news if true, but I would like to see something more then "some dude got it via Twitter". ;)

As one of those head in the sand types that will not even consider a non-Tivo, this can not come soon enough.

Brian

Would believe the official statements a lot more rather then someone on twitter.

[buckeyenut]

Man, I'm so excited about this! http://www.hdcolumbus.net/vb-hdtv/images/smilies/ecstatic.gif

[fasTLane]

+1 http://www.hdcolumbus.net/vb-hdtv/images/smilies/ecstatic.gif

[shibby191]

LOL. So some dude on Twitter says it's on track for this year trumps what Tivo corporate submitted to the SEC and what the CEO has said that it's due in 2010? Yea right.

[shibby191]

So I don't think we can assume this is a patent issue, when it could simply be an agreement issue.

However it is a fact that Tivo doesn't have a patent on DLB.

[sjberra]

However it is a fact that Tivo doesn't have a patent on DLB.

especially since the last CE features for the HR2X's

[20TIL6]

However it is a fact that Tivo doesn't have a patent on DLB.

If their patented method of recording, indexing, and playback is key to enabling enough system resources to allow for more than one buffer to exist, then I think that could be debated. You are talking about an extended benefit of a core function. How different in method is DirecTV's core function? Then you can effectively differentiate such extended benefits as DLB.

But again, it could just as well be a matter of agreement over patent. But DirecTV comes around like clockwork and renews and/or extends their agreements with TiVo. Must be some reason for that.

[buckeyenut]

LOL. So some dude on Twitter says it's on track for this year trumps what Tivo corporate submitted to the SEC and what the CEO has said that it's due in 2010? Yea right.

This year, next year. Doesn't matter. I need to retire the HR10-250.

[shibby191]

Latest Twitter post, a correction:
DIRECTV To clarify previous posts, Tivo's latest development update on the HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo is available here:

Which points to the Tivo SEC filing which states 2010. LOL.

Pwnd

[Cubfan]

I've moved on. Don't miss the "bloop sound," the clumsy remote, the ads on every screen, and the slow interface. I don't want to enter about 20 remote commands with every reboot just to get 30-second skip. I don't miss pushed "upgrades" that give me a doorstop for weeks.

Name me one thing that Tivo will give us that we don't already have with the HR-2X DVRs/

Tivo, you cut your own throat, you prima-donnas. You're OS/2 while the world went Windows. We DirecTV subscribers don't miss you one bit. Suck it, Tivo.

[Budget_HT]

I've moved on. Don't miss the "bloop sound," the clumsy remote, the ads on every screen, and the slow interface. I don't want to enter about 20 remote commands with every reboot just to get 30-second skip. I don't miss pushed "upgrades" that give me a doorstop for weeks.

Name me one thing that Tivo will give us that we don't already have with the HR-2X DVRs/

Tivo, you cut your own throat, you prima-donnas. You're OS/2 while the world went Windows. We DirecTV subscribers don't miss you one bit. Suck it, Tivo.
My two HR10-250 HD DirecTiVo units both operate flawlessly right now and they have for quite a while. I have always wondered why some of us have no problems and others have problems many of us are not seeing.

Yes, in the past when DirecTV was making changes to the guide data we all had some problems. Yes I had a power supply go bad in my oldest unit, but after repairs, all is stable again.

[newsposter]

My two HR10-250 HD DirecTiVo units both operate flawlessly right now and they have for quite a while. I have always wondered why some of us have no problems and others have problems many of us are not seeing.


yea no one else had the todo problem i had...it would 'reset' itself just when you scanned thru it. very annoying once past the first screen..then would lock up and you cant move around at all within it

as far as 30 sec skip it's only 7 buttons :D

[JimSpence]

...
Name me one thing that Tivo will give us that we don't already have with the HR-2X DVRs/...With the addition of DLB on the HR2x platform there is only one thing I can think of. And that is the TiVo style grid guide. I miss it, but have learned to move on. Afterall, exactly how often does one really surf the guide anymore?

[WaldorfSalad]

I've moved on. Don't miss the "bloop sound," the clumsy remote, the ads on every screen, and the slow interface. I don't want to enter about 20 remote commands with every reboot just to get 30-second skip. I don't miss pushed "upgrades" that give me a doorstop for weeks.

Name me one thing that Tivo will give us that we don't already have with the HR-2X DVRs/

Tivo, you cut your own throat, you prima-donnas. You're OS/2 while the world went Windows. We DirecTV subscribers don't miss you one bit. Suck it, Tivo.the "bloop sound"? I turned that off in the first hour of setting up my D*HDTivo 5 years ago.
clumsy remote? I really like the peanut remote much better than the other D* remotes.
the ads on every screen? Nope, not on my HR10-250.
slow interface? Yes, it can be a bit slow at times but a non-destructive C&D perks it up again.
30-second skip? don't use it. I actually prefer the default operation of the skip button.
pushed "upgrades". I decided to stay with 3.1.5f.
I love the DLB and the Tivo guide.
My comments are regarding the HR10-250. Its worked pretty well for 5 years, though I did have to replace the power supply a couple of months ago to fix some flakiness.
Just my 2c.

I'm looking forward to the new D* HD Tivo as I've been a die-hard Tivo fan for almost 10 years (Sont T60 before HR10-250) but I was a bit disappointed by the TivoHD that I had for a month before throwing in th towel due to various problems. I hope the new D* HD Tivo won't have as many problems.

[MichaelK]

....

as far as 30 sec skip it's only 7 buttons :D

30 second skip survives reboots on the s2's and S3's for several versons now....

no reason a new directv box wont behave the same (unless directv says so...)

[stevel]

I hope the new DirecTV TiVos don't have the ads that are sprouting up all over the standalones.

[MichaelK]

I'd bet that not only do the tivo ads show up on the directivos but that they have more ads then the stand alone boxes. Last I read tivo and directv have a deal that not only can tivo sell ads on the directivos but directv can also and keep the cash all to themselves.

[Sir_winealot]

Suck it, Tivo.





Yeah, TiVo is like-like.... so gay (NTTAWWT).:rolleyes:

[HiDefGator]

However it is a fact that Tivo doesn't have a patent on DLB.

I guess if Tivo did have a patent then Directv would have to add a third tuner and make it TLB to get aropund the patent.

[shibby191]

I guess if Tivo did have a patent then Directv would have to add a third tuner and make it TLB to get aropund the patent.

Actually it wouldn't matter if Tivo had a patent or not. DirecTV has access to Tivo's patents per contract and they also have the no sue clause in place on their contract until 2018 (which is when Tivo's patents run out). The real reason for the new contract. ;)

And you're actually not too far off anyway since on DBSTalk it's been demod with QLB, quad live buffers. Basically if you have 2 other DVRs on your network you can MRV from each plus have your dual buffers on the DVR you're on so you could switch between 4 live buffering programs at once. Or something like that if I follow it correctly. Pretty cool stuff if you got MRV going as well.

[20TIL6]

Actually it wouldn't matter if Tivo had a patent or not. DirecTV has access to Tivo's patents per contract and they also have the no sue clause in place on their contract until 2018 (which is when Tivo's patents run out). The real reason for the new contract. ;)

And you're actually not too far off anyway since on DBSTalk it's been demod with QLB, quad live buffers. Basically if you have 2 other DVRs on your network you can MRV from each plus have your dual buffers on the DVR you're on so you could switch between 4 live buffering programs at once. Or something like that if I follow it correctly. Pretty cool stuff if you got MRV going as well.

Just read today that TiVo was granted another patent, originally filed in 2002. I'm still trying to figure out its application, but it sounds like it covers trick play on multiple buffers (not just the one being viewed on the primary output). Don't know if this has any impact on what you are describing, or if DirecTV has access to it based upon their agreement. I'm wondering if newly granted TiVo patents, of which DirecTV wants to use, would in your scenario signify a new contract to what... 2029?

[spolebitski]

When is the DirectTV Tivo going to be available?

[litzdog911]

When is the DirectTV Tivo going to be available?

"Early 2010" based on recent statements.

[Cubfan]

"Early 2010" based on recent statements.

2011 based on recent experience. :)

[shibby191]

LOL.

Actually the last official word was from Tivo themselves stated as earliest as possible in 2010. So that's obviously not even saying first half or anything. So who knows at this point other then it's not canceled and still planned for.

[fasTLane]

FIOS is coming here soon. Which one will win the race and earn my business? Stay tuned.

[20TIL6]

FIOS is coming here soon. Which one will win the race and earn my business? Stay tuned.

Lucky dog.

[litzdog911]

2011 based on recent experience. :)

I was just relaying the latest official word. But I agree that it's likely to slip. That's been their track record forever.