DIRECTV and TiVo to Launch New HD DIRECTV DVR with TiVo Service [Text View] - Page 2

shibby191

05-07-2009, 08:51 AM

Well, Tivo continues it's uphill battle.

DirecTV 1st quarter results:
http://investor.directv.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=382409

460,000 net subscriber additions (in one quarter!) and 10 year low churn (which continued to go down).

So this was the big quarter in my mind. First full quarter with the HR20's subs coming off of 2 year agreements. Continuing the trend from 4th quarter churn keeps going down. This means that DirecTV subs as a whole are happy with their HR2x series DVR. If they weren't they would be leaving in droves by now as predicted by many.

Looks like DirecTV was right.

Still, Tivo needs to get off their arss and get the new DirecTivo HD out sooner then later or it will be way too late for them to have any impact on the market. Assuming it gets out in early 2010 I would predict around half a million subs for the new receiver. That's just not enough. Especially since DirecTV will have well over 10 million on their own DVR by then. However anything is better then nothing for Tivo, but if they are betting the company on a new DirecTivo success it's looking pretty grim.

Kyle

05-07-2009, 11:16 AM

Well, we decided to make the leap to Fios. (Installation is Monday!) It was a pretty clear-cut decision just based on the bundle pricing. We did buy a Tivo to go with it though.. our first non-DirecTV model.

NoCalME

05-08-2009, 09:22 AM

With the addition of DLB on the HR2x platform there is only one thing I can think of. And that is the TiVo style grid guide. I would add Suggestions to the list of features I sorely miss on the HR20. My HR10 recorded numerous first-rate movies, documentaries, etc. that I would have missed without Suggestions enabled. The TiVo guide is still superior, but the DirecTV guide is decent.

sjberra

05-08-2009, 01:28 PM

I would add Suggestions to the list of features I sorely miss on the HR20. My HR10 recorded numerous first-rate movies, documentaries, etc. that I would have missed without Suggestions enabled. The TiVo guide is still superior, but the DirecTV guide is decent.

suggestions was the second thing I turned off on the HR10's.

Cudahy

05-08-2009, 04:32 PM

Different strokes - a key thing for me is I can search for movies alphabetically on Tivo but not on my DirectvDVR which doesn't have a category search.

JimSpence

05-08-2009, 06:11 PM

I also removed the automatic recording of suggestions, but will check the list for anything that might be of interest. It doesn't happen very often, especially since 99% of my viewing is now HD.

sjberra

05-09-2009, 09:28 AM

Different strokes - a key thing for me is I can search for movies alphabetically on Tivo but not on my DirectvDVR which doesn't have a category search.

Just brought up Search by Title and it listed all the shows available in alpha sequence. Seems to be the same thing to me, click in a T and all the shows whose title starts with a T show up

Never really used about catagory search, prefer to search by person or keyword, little more accurate

Cudahy

05-09-2009, 03:11 PM

shibby191

05-09-2009, 03:27 PM

It would take an hour to look through all the programs alphabetically. With Tivo's subcategory searches you can look through the movies in 20 minutes. I keep an updated list of quality movies I haven't seen and use the Tivo movie search every eleven days. I usually find 2 or 3.

Try this (I know it's not the same but I find it much better since I can do it at work when I'm bored) since you've got a list of movies you want.

Log in to your account at Directv's web site.
In the search bar up top type in the name of your movie and search.
If it finds it at all in the guide in the next 2 weeks you can then remote schedule it to your DVR (including the HR10).

At least it's something and some find it nice.

sluciani

05-09-2009, 06:56 PM

It would take an hour to look through all the programs alphabetically. With Tivo's subcategory searches you can look through the movies in 20 minutes. I keep an updated list of quality movies I haven't seen and use the Tivo movie search every eleven days. I usually find 2 or 3.What's an example of a saved search you'd like to periodically run on the HR2x that you can only run on a TiVo?

I ask, because category searches are really no problem on the DirecTV boxes. You just may not be aware of how to run them, because the search UI is not as intuitive. /steve

samo

05-10-2009, 01:42 AM

It would take an hour to look through all the programs alphabetically. With Tivo's subcategory searches you can look through the movies in 20 minutes. I keep an updated list of quality movies I haven't seen and use the Tivo movie search every eleven days. I usually find 2 or 3.
Go to keyword search and type letter A. Just about every movie has at least one letter "a" in a title or description. Then you can go to categories and select movies. Then you can narrow it down to comedy for example.
Next time go to your recent searches and repeat the search by one click.

joed32

05-10-2009, 09:20 AM

VOD has a category search that works like the old one. I would like to see the same thing on broadcast movies.

Cudahy

05-10-2009, 03:15 PM

sluciani

05-10-2009, 07:44 PM

I tried your suggestion, Samo, but the movies don't appear alphabetically in the category search. Why Directv doesn't have a category subsearch to their title search is baffling to me. I doubt that Tivo has a patent on that.They have a category subsearch to their Keyword searches, which can be limited to Titles if you like, so it's there. Like I said above, give me an example of a search you think you can run on the TiVo but not not on the HR2x.

DirecTV keyword search results are listed in "showing" order, BTW. Some folks like this, and some don't. I personally would prefer to see all keyword search matches for a particular movie appear in a single folder in an alphabetized list, similar to Title searches, but their approach gets the job done as well, if not as elegantly. /steve

nrc

05-10-2009, 09:50 PM

They have a category subsearch to their Keyword searches, which can be limited to Titles if you like, so it's there. Like I said above, give me an example of a search you think you can run on the TiVo but not not on the HR2x.

How about a search that will tell me if the movie I'm interested in is available by broadcast, cable, Amazon, Jaman, or Cinema Now? :D

Will the DTV DVR allow you to automatically search on the current program (either airing now or pre-recorded), then pick out that actress that caught your eye from the cast list, and search for other movies that she appears in that are being broadcast or available for rental? All without entering any text.

samo

05-11-2009, 12:14 AM

How about a search that will tell me if the movie I'm interested in is available by broadcast, cable, Amazon, Jaman, or Cinema Now? :D
4500 titles on-demand is as close as it gets on DirecTV. But why would somebody who subscribes to DirecTV want to know what is available on cable?
And personally, I prefer to know what movies are available in 1080P vs. Jaman or Amazon SD or new 720P HD. Maybe one day TiVo offers 1080P output and perhaps these online services will jump on it and allow you to watch movies in best quality, but for now watching SD movies (some you even have to pay for) on beautiful LCD HD TV seems to me as waste of time and money.

Will the DTV DVR allow you to automatically search on the current program (either airing now or pre-recorded), then pick out that actress that caught your eye from the cast list, and search for other movies that she appears in that are being broadcast or available for rental? All without entering any text.
Typing few letters does not seem to be a monumental task to me. But answer to your question is no. If you asked me - "in your wildest dreams, would you ever think that you would want to search for the actress that you never heard before from the movie you just watch and search for her movies on broadcast or Amazon without typing her name" - my answer will still be no.

sluciani

05-11-2009, 03:49 PM

Typing few letters does not seem to be a monumental task to me. But answer to your question is no.You certainly can search for any actor, director or writer in the HR2x's VOD/GUIDE database, but not without typing the name. And you can limit those searches to categories. Sandra Bullock comedies, e.g., or John Ford westerns. /steve

nrc

05-16-2009, 01:33 AM

4500 titles on-demand is as close as it gets on DirecTV. But why would somebody who subscribes to DirecTV want to know what is available on cable?
Because they get both and they want to know what's available to them through any source? The point is that TiVo Search goes beyond what's available on an ordinary DVR by aggregating content across many providers.

And personally, I prefer to know what movies are available in 1080P vs. Jaman or Amazon SD or new 720P HD. Maybe one day TiVo offers 1080P output and perhaps these online services will jump on it and allow you to watch movies in best quality, but for now watching SD movies (some you even have to pay for) on beautiful LCD HD TV seems to me as waste of time and money.

TiVo downloads from Amazon are 1080p usually with Dolby 5.1 sound. They're currently displayed by TiVo at 1080i, but the difference is negligible on a good display. The quality is very good.

Typing few letters does not seem to be a monumental task to me. But answer to your question is no. If you asked me - "in your wildest dreams, would you ever think that you would want to search for the actress that you never heard before from the movie you just watch and search for her movies on broadcast or Amazon without typing her name" - my answer will still be no.

You could say the same thing about programming your VCR by day and time for all your programs. The scenario I suggested was just one example. Having instant access to hyper-linked searches completely changes how you use search. My number of auto-record wishlists has increased four-fold since this feature became available. It's just so simple that you can create auto-record Wish Lists for almost anything that occurs to you.

wkearney99

05-16-2009, 03:35 PM

2011 based on recent experience. :)

Or how about... never? Based on DirecTV's failure to deliver any of their PC-integration devices, I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything they promise ever being delivered.

sjberra

05-17-2009, 07:59 AM

Or how about... never? Based on DirecTV's failure to deliver any of their PC-integration devices, I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything they promise ever being delivered.

Have you tried direct2pc yet, been watching movies that are recorded on my HR2X's for awhile on the PC's in the house.

shibby191

05-17-2009, 04:09 PM

Or how about... never? Based on DirecTV's failure to deliver any of their PC-integration devices, I wouldn't hold out much hope of anything they promise ever being delivered.

Not sure where this comment came from. It's all in Tivo's court, they are the one's making the receiver. And Tivo has already delayed it until next year. However, when was the last time Tivo delivered anything on time? ;)

nrc

05-19-2009, 04:57 AM

Not sure where this comment came from. It's all in Tivo's court, they are the one's making the receiver. And Tivo has already delayed it until next year. However, when was the last time Tivo delivered anything on time? ;)

Both the Series 3 and the HD were delivered on time.

Do you have some source for the notion that "it's all in TiVo's court"? The agreement which has been filed indicates that the DirecTV is responsible for the receiver and TiVo will provide software on the hardware that DirecTV provides.

sjberra

05-19-2009, 09:18 AM

Both the Series 3 and the HD were delivered on time.

Do you have some source for the notion that "it's all in TiVo's court"? The agreement which has been filed indicates that the DirecTV is responsible for the receiver and TiVo will provide software on the hardware that DirecTV provides.

pretty good indication the reciever is already in place - HR2X's. If I recall correctly it was mentioned that it will go to existing hardware. Software is in Tivo's court.

shibby191

05-19-2009, 11:05 AM

Yea, the software, which is the crux of this whole deal, is all Tivo. Possible I guess Tivo could be waiting on a new receiver design from DirecTV, but the only new hardware that DirecTV has announced in it's filings is the new home server for 2010. Anything else we aren't privy to what is going on behind the scenes.

Think Comcast and Cox. Tivo develops the software onto their hardware. Same thing for this new DirecTivo.

sluciani

05-19-2009, 01:21 PM

20TIL6

05-19-2009, 01:45 PM

Here's what TiVo's SEC filing says: "Under the terms of our non-exclusive agreement, TiVo will develop a new version of the TiVo service for DIRECTV's broadband-enabled high definition DVR platform."

Since the DirecTV HR21/22/23 platform uses the same Broadcom 7401 chipset as the TiVoHD, I was really surprised when TiVo recently announced that the new software has been delayed until 2010. When the deal was first announced back in September of 2008, given how important DirecTV subscriber revenues are to TiVo, I fully expected them to fast track this product. It's now almost 9 months since the announcement, and there hasn't even been a rumor about a beta!

With DirecTV testing HR2x MRV and DLB's, there's even less reason for SD DirecTiVo users to wait to upgrade. And at the same time the DirecTiVo finally does come out, DirecTV will probably be testing their "whole home" DVR product.

TiVo really missed the boat on this one, IMHO. /steve

Just my opinion of course, but I don't think the delays are because of technical reasons. Purely business at this point. As with DirecTV, Comcast, and Cox, they have what could be considered 'protection' agreements in place with TiVo. All three would much rather see TiVo die off (Plan A). But the DISH litigation is not yet fully resolved, so they throw TiVo some bones (Plan B) yet still primarily market and maintain share with their in-house DVR platforms.

These guys are just paying some insurance right now, that's all. It's business, and these guys aren't going to push and market TiVo anymore than they are forced to. As a TiVo fan, I don't like that. But it is what it is.

If Dish prevails, these three will kick TiVo to the curb faster than you can skip through commercials.

It TiVo prevails, we might see any number of things. The least of which would be DirecTV, Comcast, and Cox all offering TiVo as a DVR platform. Or they could simply work out a licensing agreement to use the IP in their own platforms. DirecTV is probably the best positioned of the three.

shibby191

05-19-2009, 02:22 PM

Just my opinion of course, but I don't think the delays are because of technical reasons. Purely business at this point. As with DirecTV, Comcast, and Cox, they have what could be considered 'protection' agreements in place with TiVo. All three would much rather see TiVo die off (Plan A). But the DISH litigation is not yet fully resolved, so they throw TiVo some bones (Plan B) yet still primarily market and maintain share with their in-house DVR platforms.

These guys are just paying some insurance right now, that's all. It's business, and these guys aren't going to push and market TiVo anymore than they are forced to. As a TiVo fan, I don't like that. But it is what it is.

If Dish prevails, these three will kick TiVo to the curb faster than you can skip through commercials.

It TiVo prevails, we might see any number of things. The least of which would be DirecTV, Comcast, and Cox all offering TiVo as a DVR platform. Or they could simply work out a licensing agreement to use the IP in their own platforms. DirecTV is probably the best positioned of the three.

There is probably more truth to your post then many realize. As for licensing Tivo's IP and patents, DirecTV's agreement with Tivo already allows for that. It also has a no sue clause until 2018, when Tivo's patents run out. If Tivo comes out with a killer platform for DirecTV then it's win-win for both. But I doubt DirecTV cares either way which is shown by the hard numbers (such as 2 straight quarters of the lowest churn in a decade despite the fact the original HR20 2 yr agreements are up, so they must be doing something right). What they really want is to not be sued and they have that.

But Tivo has missed the boat here. The DirecTV product should have been fast tracked like no tomorrow. It's to the point where by the time they actually get it out sometime in 2010 there may be less then 1 million DirecTivo owners left. Very much missed the boat.

GBTheater

05-19-2009, 05:46 PM

I was with DirecTV for 8 years and owned two of the Sony DirecTivo boxes. Best device of its time. When DirecTV ended its relationship with Tivo, I was forced to move to Time Warner and their DVR. That lasted about a month before I invested in a couple of Series 3 boxes with cable card.
The quality just isn't the same as DirecTV and you all know what I'm talking about. I've never seen cable as clear as DirecTV.
I survived through it until I saw the announcement about the new HD DirecTivo box. It took me all of a few minutes to call DirecTV and order their service back up again. I told them when I left it was because of Tivo and I told them when I signed back up it was because of Tivo. If they're smart, they'll work to get the ball rolling on this thing.
I now have 4 boxes, 2 of the Series 3 Tivo's recording from my ATSC tuners and two of the HD DVR's from DirecTV for those channels I can't get over the air. I can't tell you how much I hate that DARN DirecTV box. It is at least 5 times slower to respond to commands than the Tivo. It is actually painful to use.
Time Warner finally has that darn 2-way tuning adapter working in my area, so DirectTV and Tivo better get on the ball or I may have to switch back to cable again :(

20TIL6

05-19-2009, 07:14 PM

I was with DirecTV for 8 years and owned two of the Sony DirecTivo boxes. Best device of its time. When DirecTV ended its relationship with Tivo.....

Same story for me. I had been with DirecTV for over 13 years. Had the SAT-T60 and a newer Samsung variant. Loved those boxes, and loved DirecTV service. But that all ended when DirecTV kicked TiVo to the curb.

I have two S3 and three HD units, Comcast, OTA, and broadband connected. Still, even with all that, Comcast is just inept enough to upset everything. They just can't stop mucking around with things, and that impacts stability for me. Something I never worried about with DirecTV.

So yeah, I am waiting on the new DirecTV/TiVo and only until after it comes out will I return to DirecTV. Not a day before. Maybe I'll be waiting for a long time. Maybe the new DirecTV/TiVo will never happen. I'm OK for now. OTA, broadband, and yes, even Comcast will suffice for now.

sluciani

05-20-2009, 09:32 AM

Same story for me. I had been with DirecTV for over 13 years. Had the SAT-T60 and a newer Samsung variant. Loved those boxes, and loved DirecTV service. But that all ended when DirecTV kicked TiVo to the curb.

I have two S3 and three HD units, Comcast, OTA, and broadband connected. Still, even with all that, Comcast is just inept enough to upset everything. They just can't stop mucking around with things, and that impacts stability for me. Something I never worried about with DirecTV.

So yeah, I am waiting on the new DirecTV/TiVo and only until after it comes out will I return to DirecTV. Not a day before. Maybe I'll be waiting for a long time. Maybe the new DirecTV/TiVo will never happen. I'm OK for now. OTA, broadband, and yes, even Comcast will suffice for now.I've been a TiVo fan since I plunked down $800 back in 1999 for my first 30GB Series 1. They practically had to pry my HR10-250's from my hands back in March of 2007, but I wanted to see the Yankees in HD and I had no choice.

All I can tell you is that there is life after TiVo. The HR2x's are doing everything I need them to do, and now that they've got MRV, DLB's and a "whole-home" DVR promised for 2010, I probably won't ever be switching back to DirecTiVo's, as I thought one day I might. Had the new DirecTiVo come out prior to D* MRV and DLB's, it might have been a different story.

20TIL6

05-20-2009, 11:13 AM

I've been a TiVo fan since I plunked down $800 back in 1999 for my first 30GB Series 1. They practically had to pry my HR10-250's from my hands back in March of 2007, but I wanted to see the Yankees in HD and I had no choice.

All I can tell you is that there is life after TiVo. The HR2x's are doing everything I need them to do, and now that they've got MRV, DLB's and a "whole-home" DVR promised for 2010, I probably won't ever be switching back to DirecTiVo's, as I thought one day I might. Had the new DirecTiVo come out prior to D* MRV and DLB's, it might have been a different story.

I can appreciate your point. I am sure the HR2x's are coming up to speed nicely.

The loss of TiVo functionality and interface while using DirecTV service is a large reason why I canceled my 13+ year DirecTV account. But I have to also admit that another part of my reasoning had to do with ethics.

***And this is only my opinion on it.*** I am sure plenty will disagree with me.

When something bothers me from a consumer/business perspective, I try to enact a change. And if it only makes me feel better about it, that's OK. The DirecTV/TiVo situation was one of these for me.

I just felt that it was unethical for DirecTV to setup cross-license arrangements with TiVo, build a considerable DVR consumer base on the TiVo platform, and then basically kick TiVo to the curb and force the established consumer base onto their in-house platform through a change in transmission technology. Personally, I just think that is unethical.

DirecTV did not have the DVR IP to establish this DVR consumer base in the beginning. They got it from TiVo. And when they were able to (in-house DVR development), they kept the licensing agreements alive (no infringement lawsuits), but they orphaned the TiVo platform. And obviously, TiVo is a much weaker company without DirecTV.

So I am sure DirecTV management analyzed the legal aspect of it, and it passed. But to me, it still smells bad.

And you know, for my decision to look at it this way and act on it, I lost really great quality of signal and Sunday Ticket. And probably DirecTV lost nothing in the end. But like I said, if it only makes me feel better about something, then that's enough. And I still feel better about it.

sjberra

05-20-2009, 02:09 PM

DirecTV did not have the IP to establish this consumer base in the beginning."

I may not be remembering correctly, but Directv was around in one form or the other long before TIVO even put their first unit on public test in 98, the first "directivo" did not hit until latw 2000 when Phillips Electronics released the DSR6000. Seems to me it is the other way around

CuriousMark

05-20-2009, 02:14 PM

Dvr Ip

sluciani

05-20-2009, 04:50 PM

DirecTV did not have the DVR IP to establish this DVR consumer base in the beginning. They got it from TiVo. And when they were able to (in-house DVR development), they kept the licensing agreements alive (no infringement lawsuits), but they orphaned the TiVo platform. And obviously, TiVo is a much weaker company without DirecTV.

So I am sure DirecTV management analyzed the legal aspect of it, and it passed. But to me, it still smells bad.I suspect you don't own any DirecTV stock. :)

It doesn't make good business sense to have a key component of your business under the control of a third party that can turn around and hold you hostage when the current contract agreement expires. Given how every other cable and sat company had already developed their own DVR's, it would have been foolish for DirecTV to not have a "plan B" in place to provide them some leverage for future contract renewals. TiVo has no such advantage over anyone else, so why should DirecTV give it to them?

And don't forget, DirecTV now owns the Replay IP and, as a result, probably has less to worry about a TiVo lawsuit than any other company out there, since TiVo and Replay agreed not to sue each other several years ago. Even so, DirecTV still took the "high road" and recently renewed the TiVo deal, when they arguably didn't have to.

Don't forget, TiVo owes DirecTV as well. DirecTV paid them handsomely for the IP and work they did for them in the past... in 2006, they accounted for 2/3 of all TiVo's subscriber revenues. They may not still be around today, if it wasn't for that DirecTV deal.

My point is that TiVo has benefited as much from the relationship as DirecTV, so arguing that "TiVo got screwed" is falling on deaf ears here... and I'm a TiVo fanboy! :) /steve

sjberra

05-20-2009, 06:52 PM

Dvr Ip

sorry Directv probably could have bought Tivo at that time without a problem

20TIL6

05-20-2009, 06:57 PM

sorry Directv probably could have bought Tivo at that time without a problem

I really, really wish they would have.

sluciani

05-20-2009, 07:07 PM

sorry Directv probably could have bought Tivo at that time without a problem

I really, really wish they would have.That probably would have made the most sense, considering what it must have cost D* so far to develop the HR2x's. Who knows? They may have explored the possibility and TiVo wanted what DirecTV thought was too much money. Murdoch probably figured it would be cheaper to build a box. Little did he know. /steve

shibby191

05-20-2009, 08:41 PM

And of course now in hindsight it was the best thing DirecTV ever did, going their own way. Now that they have 8-9 million of their own DVRs out there and 60%+ of all new subs get their DVR and chrun is at record lows with their own DVR with such subs out of commitment. And as mentioned above DirecTV controls their own destiny instead of having half their customer base beholden to Tivo instead. Having a new DirecTivo will be good for choice and good for Tivo. But it matters not to DirecTV frankly. It was all smart business on DirecTV's part.

Hopefully for those that want it and for competition Tivo can get off their cans and get this new unit out. But the longer they wait the worse it will be for them. At the current rate a year from now probably 75% of DirecTV's customer base will have the DirecTV DVR. Tivo will have a very hard time convincing most of those people that it's worth the extra premium for the Tivo based DVR.

nrc

05-21-2009, 02:25 AM

It doesn't make good business sense to have a key component of your business under the control of a third party that can turn around and hold you hostage when the current contract agreement expires. Given how every other cable and sat company had already developed their own DVR's, ...

Not true. Most cable companies use relatively standard cable DVRs purchased from Motorola or Cisco.

And don't forget, DirecTV now owns the Replay IP and, as a result, probably has less to worry about a TiVo lawsuit than any other company out there, since TiVo and Replay agreed not to sue each other several years ago.

Replay's IP doesn't seem to amount to much. The last time I searched the Patent database they had two patents. TiVo and Replay didn't agree not to sue each other. They simply agreed to mutually drop their existing suits at the time.

Don't forget, TiVo owes DirecTV as well. DirecTV paid them handsomely for the IP and work they did for them in the past... in 2006, they accounted for 2/3 of all TiVo's subscriber revenues.

Not true. Although DirecTV accounted for 2/3 of TiVo's subscribers in 2006 they accounted for only 16% of subscriber revenue.

sjberra

05-21-2009, 07:36 AM

That probably would have made the most sense, considering what it must have cost D* so far to develop the HR2x's. Who knows? They may have explored the possibility and TiVo wanted what DirecTV thought was too much money. Murdoch probably figured it would be cheaper to build a box. Little did he know. /steve

I am happy with the HR2X series, does everything that I need with none of the additional junk I don;t want. The new unit can never be released and it would not bother me in the least.

Besides out of the useful functions of the Tivo, the current beta relases on the hr2x's has them both.

Steveknj

05-21-2009, 08:41 AM

stevel

05-21-2009, 09:20 AM

20TIL6

05-21-2009, 10:02 AM

It may be that the new DTiVo will offer some extra-special features over and above the HR2x. They've already said that Swivel Search will be there, but that gets a big yawn from me. Transfer to PC and burn to DVD? Doubt it... Ads everywhere? Hope not.

What else is there?

Well, speaking of search, what TiVo has done with search is pretty cool. Again, I have S3 and HD units. Don't know if HR2x has anything like this.

But there is a new TiVo Search available on my boxes - it's still labeled beta - but I use it frequently. Anyway, I'll give you a real life example of how I used it the other night.

Wife comes home talking about the other night's episode of SouthPark that somebody at her office was talking about. We don't really watch that show much anymore, but the person said it was really funny. Something about the economy.

Pull up SouthPark in find shows (regular search), nothing that sounds like that episode is upcoming. But open up the new TiVo search and every SouthPark episode is listed, organized by season. There are 13 seasons of SouthPark, did not know that. This one was a current season, so I look into season 13. There it is. "Margaritaville".

TiVo Search lets me know all the ways I could get this episode. If it is being broadcast in the next two weeks, it indicates that. If it's available from download, like Amazon On Demand, it indicates that. It also gives me the option to create a wish list.

So it told me that this episode is not being broadcast within the next two weeks (that's what regular search indicated). It showed that I could download it for $1.99 from Amazon. That's great, but not worth 2 bucks to me. So I clicked on create a wish list, and this is pretty neat.

It automatically took the episode I had isolated and created the boolean (sp?) wish list request, and set to automatically record whenever it is broadcast. No spelling and multiple letter entry, just select and done. Keyword wish list - SouthPark * Margaritaville.

I was impressed.

sluciani

05-21-2009, 10:38 AM

Replay's IP doesn't seem to amount to much. The last time I searched the Patent database they had two patents. TiVo and Replay didn't agree not to sue each other. They simply agreed to mutually drop their existing suits at the time.Search for Sonic Blue, not Replay. There are over 50 patents.

And yes, they dropped the suits, but the implication of that is they also agreed not to sue each other again. They obviously each have credible patents, if neither side felt confident enough to continue their suits. And if they decided to revive the lawsuits, who's pockets do you think are deeper for a protracted fight?

Not true. Most cable companies use relatively standard cable DVRs purchased from Motorola or Cisco.I was talking about the software, not the hardware.

sjberra

05-21-2009, 04:56 PM

The only people who will WANT Tivos as opposed to D* DVRs will be the people who know the difference. Most new D* subs will get whatever DVR is offerered them with their package. I doubt many people will switch to Tivo, from a D* DVR considering they are probably already used to it, and it functions just fine. Better than most DVRs offered by Cable.

I know the difference - still prefer the HR2X series. Last Hr10 is sitting out in the garage hooked up to a old 19 onch black and white and the SD unit is in the guest room hooked to a 21 inch RCA console. Best place for them. with the latest ce, tivo has nothing that is even remotely interesting, and dlb ranks right there as being mildly interesting, not a life or death requirement, but mildly interesting. definately not worth an additional charge to have.

nrc

05-21-2009, 06:23 PM

Search for Sonic Blue, not Replay. There are over 50 patents.
What search are you using? Searching for Sonic Blue or Sonicblue as assignee name yields one unrelated patent and a dozen or so applications mostly unrelated to DVR technology.

And yes, they dropped the suits, but the implication of that is they also agreed not to sue each other again. They obviously each have credible patents, if neither side felt confident enough to continue their suits.

There was no such implication. The suits were dropped without prejudice (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5875141). Dropping the suits had nothing to do with credibility. They simply recognized that the expense of lawsuits made no sense when the winner stood gain nothing but a big legal bill and a bankrupt competitor. If ReplayTV were flush with IP they wouldn't have floated around essentially unclaimed for years.

And if they decided to revive the lawsuits, who's pockets do you think are deeper for a protracted fight?Echostar's deep pockets didn't seem to deter them. But it's really irrelevant since DTV agreed to extend their agreement with TiVo.

innocentfreak

05-21-2009, 06:55 PM

It may be that the new DTiVo will offer some extra-special features over and above the HR2x. They've already said that Swivel Search will be there, but that gets a big yawn from me. Transfer to PC and burn to DVD? Doubt it... Ads everywhere? Hope not.

What else is there?

A big one for me is more than 50 season passes. Also after dealing with their R15 I have no desire to go back to the Directv interface. I tried it for months and never got the hang of it and could never remember where to go to do certain things. Don't get me wrong the Tivo interface needs an update but I find it superior to the Directv version even as outdated as it is.

Also in someways Tivo may do themselves a service by not offering the features of a regular Tivo on Directv. I think in the end you will have 4 groups of people assuming they don't release the Tivo with all the bells and whistles and depending on the extra fee.

Group 1 wants Tivo in HD and doesn't care about the missing features. They stay with DTV for sports or because they don't have a better option. They will either upgrade or swap out their DTV DVRs.

Group 2 has already upgraded to HD and is happy with the DTV DVR so won't switch. Some of this group doesn't know the difference between a Tivo and a DVR and they assume it is one in the same.

Group 3 has been patiently, yeah right lol, waiting for the new DTivo to upgrade. They either are happy with the final product and get the new Tivo or they go with DTV DVR for HD. Again sticking with DTV service due to bad cable options or for the sports.

Group 4 has also been waiting for Tivo, but if DTV fails to deliver switches to cable for Tivo. This is where I am at. If the DTivo isn't a full featured Tivo or at least the features I want like TTG and MRV, then I will switch to Fios since DTV doesn't offer anything extra for me except having the E/W feeds in SD. This group obviously benefits Tivo since it increases regular subs.

shibby191

05-21-2009, 07:07 PM

A big one for me is more than 50 season passes. Also after dealing with their R15 I have no desire to go back to the Directv interface. I tried it for months and never got the hang of it and could never remember where to go to do certain things.

Just an FYI that the current DirecTV DVR UI on the HR series is leagues beyond what you had on that R15 way back when. It's all very intuitive. Took me about a month to get used to it. Then again I was tired of the same old Tivo UI I'd had for many years and looking forward to something different. Having said that, UI is a personal choice.

innocentfreak

05-21-2009, 08:25 PM

Just an FYI that the current DirecTV DVR UI on the HR series is leagues beyond what you had on that R15 way back when. It's all very intuitive. Took me about a month to get used to it. Then again I was tired of the same old Tivo UI I'd had for many years and looking forward to something different. Having said that, UI is a personal choice.

That is definitely good to hear. I don't have HD so I haven't been able to try it out yet and all of my friends use Tivo so no option to play with it either.

sluciani

05-21-2009, 08:46 PM

What search are you using? Searching for Sonic Blue or Sonicblue as assignee name yields one unrelated patent and a dozen or so applications mostly unrelated to DVR technology.I'm having trouble finding as well. Could be I misremembered and it's a single patent with 50 claims, as reported here: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117856663.html?categoryid=20&cs=1

None of this changes the facts. For whatever reason, DirecTV threw TiVo another life preserver almost 9 months ago, and, as far as we know, a new DirecTiVo is still not even in beta test yet. At the same time, the DirecTV DVR's have improved to the point that if D* subscribers do any sort of comparison shopping, odds are they'll see little or no value in paying a premium for a TiVo-branded product. Just my .02.

nrc

05-21-2009, 10:21 PM

I'm having trouble finding as well. Could be I misremembered and it's a single patent with 50 claims, as reported here: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117856663.html?categoryid=20&cs=1

That's probably this one. One of two.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=PGwIAAAAEBAJ&dq=6,324,338

None of this changes the facts. DirecTV threw TiVo another life preserver almost 9 months ago, and a new DirecTiVo is still not even in beta test yet, as far as we know. At the same time, the DirecTV DVR's have improved to the point that the odd that folks who like to comparison shop will pay any premium whatsoever for a DirecTiVo are rapidly increasing.

TiVo is near break even with 200 million in the bank and no debt. I'm sure they appreciate that DirecTV renewed their deal on substantially better terms, but it's hardly a "life preserver".

Evidently DirecTV feels that they'll get a reasonable number of TiVo subscriptions. They're on the hook for development costs and minimum monthly payments and will only recoup those expenses by signing up TiVo subscriptions. But yes, I'm sure that the folks who are still choking on the crow that they ate when DTV renewed their deal with TiVo will continue to deny the need for or benefit of any product from TiVo.

sluciani

05-21-2009, 11:43 PM

But yes, I'm sure that the folks who are still choking on the crow that they ate when DTV renewed their deal with TiVo will continue to deny the need for or benefit of any product from TiVo.I'm not one of those folks you apparently feel a personal need to single out, so if they were meant for me, those words are falling on deaf ears.

I am, however, a longtime TiVo user and fan-boy who is familiar with the current state of TiVoHD and HR2x software, and the pros and cons of both. I'm also a grandfathered "lifetime" D*/TiVo subscriber, so I probably wouldn't even have to pay any add'l extra monthly charges for a new DirecTiVo. Knowing what I know today about what both platforms have to offer, if DirecTV offered me a TiVoHD with sat capability tomorrow, I wouldn't give up my HR20's.

nrc

05-22-2009, 02:33 AM

I'm not one of those folks you apparently feel a personal need to single out, so if they were meant for me, those words are falling on deaf ears.
Not singling anyone out, but I'm pretty that sure such creatures exist. They spend a lot of time trying to untie the Gordian knot of why DirecTV made the deal when they really didn't need to and there's no benefit in it for them.

I am, however, a longtime TiVo user and fan-boy who is familiar with the current state of TiVoHD and HR2x software, and the pros and cons of both. I'm also a grandfathered "lifetime" D*/TiVo subscriber, so I probably wouldn't even have to pay any add'l extra monthly charges for a new DirecTiVo. Knowing what I know today about what both platforms have to offer, if DirecTV offered me a TiVoHD with sat capability tomorrow, I wouldn't give up my HR20's.
I'm sure that most DTV subscribers will take the default DVR and think nothing more of it. Anything beyond that is pure speculation since we don't know the feature set or cost at this stage.

samo

05-22-2009, 03:18 AM

I'm sure that most DTV subscribers will take the default DVR and think nothing more of it. Anything beyond that is pure speculation since we don't know the feature set or cost at this stage.
Correct, but he said "TiVO HD with satellite capability". I'm with sluciani on this one - if new DirecTivo had exact same feature set as TiVo HD has today, I wouldn't trade HR2X for it even if there was no additional cost involved.

20TIL6

05-22-2009, 09:01 AM

if new DirecTivo had exact same feature set as TiVo HD has today, I wouldn't trade HR2X for it even if there was no additional cost involved.

Really? I really like Amazon, Netflix, TTG, YouTube, CinemaNow, the search I mentioned earlier..... and DLB and MRV (even though I understand that the HR2x are on track to get this).

The newest standalones have a pretty impressive feature set. But admittedly, they lack a big one, sat support.

joed32

05-22-2009, 09:04 AM

Well, speaking of search, what TiVo has done with search is pretty cool. Again, I have S3 and HD units. Don't know if HR2x has anything like this.

But there is a new TiVo Search available on my boxes - it's still labeled beta - but I use it frequently. Anyway, I'll give you a real life example of how I used it the other night.

Wife comes home talking about the other night's episode of SouthPark that somebody at her office was talking about. We don't really watch that show much anymore, but the person said it was really funny. Something about the economy.

Pull up SouthPark in find shows (regular search), nothing that sounds like that episode is upcoming. But open up the new TiVo search and every SouthPark episode is listed, organized by season. There are 13 seasons of SouthPark, did not know that. This one was a current season, so I look into season 13. There it is. "Margaritaville".

TiVo Search lets me know all the ways I could get this episode. If it is being broadcast in the next two weeks, it indicates that. If it's available from download, like Amazon On Demand, it indicates that. It also gives me the option to create a wish list.

So it told me that this episode is not being broadcast within the next two weeks (that's what regular search indicated). It showed that I could download it for $1.99 from Amazon. That's great, but not worth 2 bucks to me. So I clicked on create a wish list, and this is pretty neat.

It automatically took the episode I had isolated and created the boolean (sp?) wish list request, and set to automatically record whenever it is broadcast. No spelling and multiple letter entry, just select and done. Keyword wish list - SouthPark * Margaritaville.

I was impressed.

"Wishlist" is the one thing that would tempt me to switch.

stevel

05-22-2009, 09:10 AM

The DirecTV boxes can stream from Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, CBS, ABC, CNN and other sources now, though they need a PC to serve as intermediary. You can also watch recorded shows on your PC. I'm not sure what the state of Amazon Unbox is. though.

What they can't do at this time is allow you to save shows on a PC or burn to DVD.

20TIL6

05-22-2009, 09:28 AM

The DirecTV boxes can stream from Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, CBS, ABC, CNN and other sources now, though they need a PC to serve as intermediary.

That's good to know. I had not seen any PR from Netflix or Hulu, or YouTube about this compatibility with DirecTV. On Netflix's website for example, DirecTV is not listed.

But good to know.

nrc

05-22-2009, 11:27 AM

The DirecTV boxes can stream from Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, CBS, ABC, CNN and other sources now, though they need a PC to serve as intermediary.

The notion of using a PC for internet video is quaint to most TiVo users at this stage. The integration and breadth of content options and that TiVo is providing these days is once again changing the way we watch TV. I'm not sure that old fashioned DVR users really get it at this point. :D

bigpuma

05-22-2009, 11:33 AM

That's good to know. I had not seen any PR from Netflix or Hulu, or YouTube about this compatibility with DirecTV. On Netflix's website for example, DirecTV is not listed.

But good to know.

That's because you need to use Playon on your computer to be able to watch those things. Not a big deal but that is why DirecTV is not listed by Netflix.

shibby191

05-22-2009, 01:39 PM

That's because you need to use Playon on your computer to be able to watch those things. Not a big deal but that is why DirecTV is not listed by Netflix.

Yep, PlayOn. Amazon Unbox (I think it's called Amazon VOD now) also is supported and with the various plugins, pretty much any video that is streamed online via podcasts can be played on your DirecTV DVR (or Xbox, PS3 and soon Wii). So things like the Revision 3 programs or the TWiT network vidcasts are all available to stream.

The notion of using a PC for internet video is quaint to most TiVo users at this stage. The integration and breadth of content options and that TiVo is providing these days is once again changing the way we watch TV. I'm not sure that old fashioned DVR users really get it at this point.

Perhaps. But just about everyone has a PC or Mac and it's pretty trivial to install one of these media programs and be streaming this stuff in minutes. Basically DirecTV has made their receivers fully DLNA compliant similar to the Xbox and PS3. While they lose certain things such as "built in" support for things like Netflix, what they gain is massive flexability to be able to work with just about any other DLNA device/server. Heck, the PS3 can see your DirecTV DVR recorded programs, just can't play them since Sony hasn't licensed the DirecTV DRM (but they could).

So they get most/all the online features of the Tivo and get a lot more user addable things at the expense of being built in. I guess which you like is up to you.

Cudahy

05-22-2009, 04:42 PM

We spend a lot of time on the computer and Directv but still haven't heard of a good reason to connect the two. There are tons of movies on Directv and any downloadable movie will soon be on HBO.

sluciani

05-22-2009, 05:01 PM

We spend a lot of time on the computer and Directv but still haven't heard of a good reason to connect the two. There are tons of movies on Directv and any downloadable movie will soon be on HBO.Thanks to working VOD, DirecTV has the technology is in place to add Netflix or any other third-party content provider, should they decide to offer it to their customers. For that reason, I'd be very surprised if a new DirecTiVo will be allowed to push Netflix to D* subscribers if there is no Netflix-D* deal in place beforehand.

As posted above, there is a work-around. You can deliver Netflix, Hulu etc. content to your HR2x via Playon running on your PC. Or you can watch Amazon movies, Hulu, etc., via TVersity running on your PC.

Instead of a direct Netflix or Amazon deal, it appears it may be Liberty's plan to have DirecTV market it's own video delivery service... at least for now. They recently renamed PPV to DirecTV Cinema, and they now list about 1000 On Demand titles on direcTV.com, so they are slowly building up a library that includes 1080p content. /steve

sjberra

05-22-2009, 06:50 PM

Really? I really like Amazon, Netflix, TTG, YouTube, CinemaNow, the search I mentioned earlier..... and DLB and MRV (even though I understand that the HR2x are on track to get this).

The newest standalones have a pretty impressive feature set. But admittedly, they lack a big one, sat support.

why should I bother with something that is that limited? Have a Xbox 360 and a PS3 on the set that does it a lot better.

The new CE for the HR2X has the other functions and with direct2pc I can watch anything recorded on any of my Hr2x boxes from anywhere in the house or out on the patio with my laptop

On a side note with the current structure of bandwidth providers putting monthyl caps on their end users, those functions can turn out to be a dead horse

sluciani

05-22-2009, 09:03 PM

On a side note with the current structure of bandwidth providers putting monthyl caps on their end users, those functions can turn out to be a dead horseI'm also not a fan of the quaint "HD lite" you often get with these services. :) /steve

sjberra

05-23-2009, 07:15 AM

I'm also not a fan of the quaint "HD lite" you often get with these services. :) /steve

can you be a little less cryptic - what services exactly? cable, netflix, Amazon, Hulu, which ones?

20TIL6

05-23-2009, 10:06 AM

why should I bother with something that is that limited? Have a Xbox 360........On a side note with the current structure of bandwidth providers putting monthyl caps on their end users, those functions can turn out to be a dead horse

I don't find the S3 platform TiVo to be limiting at all. Well, with one exception, no satellite. But with Amazon, Netflix, Jaman, CinemaNow, and just announced Blockbuster....all feeding directly to the DVR (no PC required), I fail to see where I am limited as you say. Again, wish I could use DirecTV with the platform, but oh well...

I have an Xbox 360 and a PS3.

The 360 can stream Netflix and has a small library of downloadable content (nothing compared to Amazon, Jaman, CinemaNow). But hey, it's just me. I don't like watching movies against the background of a hair dryer blowing at full blast. The 360 is just too loud to use as a true media device IMO.

The PS3 could be a better media device, but no direct feed of Netflix and only a small library of download content via the Playstation store.

These are both great video game consoles with a bit of media capability. Both lack broadcast tuners of any sort, and of course no DVR.

If I found myself turning to these devices for content consumption, it would be an indication to me that my cable/sat/OTA/DVR device was lacking or limited.

And I am not scared of bandwidth caps or tiered ISP pricing. A larger, and much more rebellious army than us broadband TiVo users exists that will fight that battle. It will be much harder for ISPs to implement such a plan against the net neutrality advocates. And even if they were able to implement caps and tiers, that would just open up a market for uncapped and non-tiered ISPs to offer services. IMO, it won't happen.

sjberra

05-23-2009, 04:05 PM

I don't find the S3 platform TiVo to be limiting at all. Well, with one exception, no satellite. But with Amazon, Netflix, Jaman, CinemaNow, and just announced Blockbuster....all feeding directly to the DVR (no PC required), I fail to see where I am limited as you say. Again, wish I could use DirecTV with the platform, but oh well...

I have an Xbox 360 and a PS3.

The 360 can stream Netflix and has a small library of downloadable content (nothing compared to Amazon, Jaman, CinemaNow). But hey, it's just me. I don't like watching movies against the background of a hair dryer blowing at full blast. The 360 is just too loud to use as a true media device IMO.

The PS3 could be a better media device, but no direct feed of Netflix and only a small library of download content via the Playstation store.

These are both great video game consoles with a bit of media capability. Both lack broadcast tuners of any sort, and of course no DVR.

If I found myself turning to these devices for content consumption, it would be an indication to me that my cable/sat/OTA/DVR device was lacking or limited.

And I am not scared of bandwidth caps or tiered ISP pricing. A larger, and much more rebellious army than us broadband TiVo users exists that will fight that battle. It will be much harder for ISPs to implement such a plan against the net neutrality advocates. And even if they were able to implement caps and tiers, that would just open up a market for uncapped and non-tiered ISPs to offer services. IMO, it won't happen.

Been streaming netflix to the ps3 for awhile not to mention CBS, CNN, Hulu Youtube and ESPN, 3rd party app works fine, might want to stay up on technology and software. As fara as a noisie 360, you must have one of the older technology ones that still use the oversized power supply

Why would i want a broadcast tuner on the device? There are other units more suited for that technology. Specialization devices are a lot more advanced then multi-purpose devices.

/rofl how exactly are you going to "fight the battle"? If you have you have already lost, numerous providers already have the caps in place and are branching out. when are you goung to "start fighting them"? what larger army? When compared to the primary users of the net for video content download, your "larger army of tivo users" is less then a platoon. caps are here already and will branch out unfortunately

20TIL6

05-23-2009, 06:26 PM

Been streaming netflix to the ps3 for awhile not to mention CBS, CNN, Hulu Youtube and ESPN, 3rd party app works fine, might want to stay up on technology and software.

Why taunt with a personal comment like that? I understand 3rd party apps can augment feature sets. My comments were based on out of the box, marketed features from Microsoft and Sony.

As fara as a noisie 360, you must have one of the older technology ones that still use the oversized power supply

Nope, it's not an old one. It's still loud. Works fine for action flicks with the sound up. Quiet scenes are impacted by the aforementioned hair dryer.

Why would i want a broadcast tuner on the device? There are other units more suited for that technology. Specialization devices are a lot more advanced then multi-purpose devices.

I agree. Specialized devices do perform particular functions better and can be more advanced in a certain area. Yet as evidenced by the media features put into video game consoles, and broadband capabilities being placed into DVRs and TVs and BluRay players, it seems that both consumers and home entertainment companies do have goals for multi-purpose devices. You might desire three or four different boxes, but I don't know if the overall consumer market desires that.

/rofl how exactly are you going to "fight the battle"? If you have you have already lost, numerous providers already have the caps in place and are branching out. when are you goung to "start fighting them"? what larger army? When compared to the primary users of the net for video content download, your "larger army of tivo users" is less then a platoon. caps are here already and will branch out unfortunately

Glad you enjoyed a chuckle. When you get off the floor and back in your seat, you might re-read my statements on caps and tiered pricing.

1. Where are the caps? I live in Houston. No caps with my provider, past or present. I had Comcast, now have AT&T DSL.

2. What army? Legit P2P, Legit content download/streaming companies, basically any provider of content that would, in effect, be competing for consumer dollars against the VOD services of the subscription TV provider (cable, sat). There is clear motive for net neutrality beyond the consumer.

Others involved? Our Congress, the FCC.

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2009/04/congressman-to/

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/153827/congress_to_push_for_net_neutrality_legislation.html

http://www.techspot.com/news/34273-bandwidth-cap-argument-to-be-settled-with-law.html

http://www.techspot.com/news/34302-time-warner-delays-bandwidth-cap-implementation.html

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/FCC-Comcast-Internet,news-2426.html

3. I never characterized broadband enabled TiVo users as being large. In fact, I think I implied that they were relatively small in number.

sjberra

05-24-2009, 08:02 AM

1. the Jasper iteration of the XBOX is a lot more reliable and quieter - started trickling into the market place late december 2008.

2. as far as caps -

http://www.zeropaid.com/news/86060/isps-push-for-data-caps-while-profits-soar-costs-decline/

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2345866,00.asp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/02/AR2009050200123.html

From the article - comcast does have a national cap, AT&T is currently testing it out in various markets. Per cost usage is looming on the horizon, unfortunately.

Almost forgot this one

http://help.comcast.net/content/faq/Frequently-Asked-Questions-about-Excessive-Use#when

3. 3rd party enhancement for anything is valid as long as it is legal - again, why stick with a single all purpose unit with limited upgradeability and functionality

Anyway, done with ths arguement, the proof will show maybe sometime in 2010 for the new unit, so far nothing that is on the current run of non-directv units that MIGHT show up on the vaporware directivo unit is even remotely interesting, especially with the rumored extra reoccurring monthly cost for it.

shibby191

05-24-2009, 08:42 AM

The thing with 3rd party enhancement is this:

If you are satisfied with the limited online features Tivo gives you out of the box then you're golden. But if you want more you don't have a whole lot of choice since Tivo is not DLNA compliant. So if you want more it's as simple as taking 2 minutes to install a program on your PC or Mac which suddenly opens the world of your PS3, Xbox or DirecTV DVR to hundreds if not thousands of options just not available on the Tivo.

Again, it's about choice. If what Tivo gives you is enough for you, excellent. If not then perhaps some more flexibility using standards is your cup of tea.

As for bandwidth caps, within a year you won't be able to get away from them unless legislation/regulation removes them.

mp11

05-25-2009, 07:51 PM

[QUOTE]The DirecTV boxes can stream from Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, CBS, ABC, CNN and other sources now, though they need a PC to serve as intermediary.

Sounds like a case of "they can but they can't". Not without the help of a PC at least. :eek: Hardly compares to a true TivoHD.

Adam1115

05-25-2009, 10:26 PM

[QUOTE=stevel;7286381]

Sounds like a case of "they can but they can't". Not without the help of a PC at least. :eek: Hardly compares to a true TivoHD.

I'd take the 'they can but they can't' directv offers over the TiVo HD, which just can't do most of those things...

sjberra

05-26-2009, 06:51 AM

[QUOTE=stevel;7286381]

Sounds like a case of "they can but they can't". Not without the help of a PC at least. :eek: Hardly compares to a true TivoHD.

It can never be a "true TivoHD" since that functionality is not avaiable on the current unit, nor do I suspect that it will be - why would directv cut into their own profits by offering the ability to rent and download pay per view features form a 3rd party company? would be very poor business sense on directv's part, unless a additional fee for the download is tacked on. Can get a lot more movies through directv's PPV service then what are available through Netflix - and you can get some of them in 1080P.

Prefer the greater flexibility of total home media center rather then the limited functionality of a single purpose box.

SullyND

05-26-2009, 07:28 AM

I think the last three posters need quoting lessons.

"Sounds like a case of "they can but they can't". Not without the help of a PC at least. Hardly compares to a true TivoHD."

Was said by mp11, not stevel. Because mp11 broke the quote of stevel (by having two [quote] functions in a row) the last two posters attribute the quote to stevel incorrectly.

20TIL6

05-26-2009, 08:24 AM

sjberra

05-26-2009, 12:50 PM

I have the feeling that if and whenever the new MPEG4 DirecTV/TiVo is released to market, and some of us choose it and happen to like the new device, there will still be some here that post reasons why we should not.

I sense a palpable aversion to its offering, and if not that, an aversion to its successful adoption.

Have no aversion to it being offered, choice is good. Just going to be interested to see what actually shows up, what year it shows up and how much additional it will cost the end user over the current cost.

Don't really belive it will offer everything that the current standalone does for the simple reason some of the functions are a competitors and do not really see Directv offering a combined way of getting to comething that could remove income from their balance sheet.

CuriousMark

05-26-2009, 02:33 PM

Don't really believe it will offer everything that the current standalone does for the simple reason some of the functions are a competitors and do not really see DirecTV offering a combined way of getting to something that could remove income from their balance sheet.
I see your point. What value you would assign to the balance sheet effect of staying ahead of the FCC. Is there any value to providing an offering that gives all the benefits to the consumer of separable security, without actually providing separable security? If consumers have a choice of navigation devices, under the DTV umbrella, will FCC leave them alone and not force cablecard, or something similar down their throats? If so, how would you see a TiVo box fitting into that scenario?

Is such thinking just a pipe dream?

sjberra

05-27-2009, 07:25 AM

I see your point. What value you would assign to the balance sheet effect of staying ahead of the FCC. Is there any value to providing an offering that gives all the benefits to the consumer of separable security, without actually providing separable security? If consumers have a choice of navigation devices, under the DTV umbrella, will FCC leave them alone and not force cablecard, or something similar down their throats? If so, how would you see a TiVo box fitting into that scenario?

Is such thinking just a pipe dream?

Yes

CuriousMark

05-27-2009, 02:41 PM

Yes

Why?

20TIL6

05-27-2009, 03:06 PM

The mere talk of DirecTV offering TiVo again was once considered a pipe dream by some folks here.

sjberra

05-27-2009, 05:20 PM

The mere talk of DirecTV offering TiVo again was once considered a pipe dream by some folks here.

Until it hits the streets in quantity - it still is.

Like I saif, offer it, don;t care - it has nothing that I don't already have - including DLB. The majiority of it is fluff anyway

20TIL6

05-27-2009, 05:31 PM

Until it hits the streets in quantity - it still is.

Like I saif, offer it, don;t care - it has nothing that I don't already have - including DLB. The majiority of it is fluff anyway

Thanks for coming through with an expected response.

dswallow

05-27-2009, 05:45 PM

Until it hits the streets in quantity - it still is.

Like I saif, offer it, don;t care - it has nothing that I don't already have - including DLB. The majiority of it is fluff anyway

You mean fulff.

:p

justbrett

05-27-2009, 05:47 PM

Man oh man I hope DTV offers a new TiVo receiver again. My parents have one of the old TiVo receivers, and they had a techie friend mod it with a bigger hard drive, and that thing slaps the DTV receivers silly. Another added benefit (and this may be from the 'modding' i dont know) is that PPV movies have no expiration date, which is nice. DTV just re-branded their PPV system as "DirecTV Cinema" and is offering these all in 1080p; I would love it if there was a TiVo system that I could have that would allow me to keep movings purchased this way forever...

Anyway here's a link to the ad for the new DirecTV Cinema offerings : displacedbrett.wordpress.com/2009/05/27/jet-stream. On a side note, I really like the song they have in the commercial - it's called "Electromagnetic Superstar" by the band Jet Stream.

litzdog911

05-27-2009, 06:55 PM

Man oh man I hope DTV offers a new TiVo receiver again. My parents have one of the old TiVo receivers, and they had a techie friend mod it with a bigger hard drive, and that thing slaps the DTV receivers silly. Another added benefit (and this may be from the 'modding' i dont know) is that PPV movies have no expiration date, which is nice. DTV just re-branded their PPV system as "DirecTV Cinema" and is offering these all in 1080p; I would love it if there was a TiVo system that I could have that would allow me to keep movings purchased this way forever...

....

If you've followed this thread you know that the new DirecTV/Tivo HD DVR should arrive in early 2010. But don't expect it to have unlimited PPV viewing. That change was driven by the Hollywood movie industry, not DirecTV or other PPV providers. The current DVRs, including Tivo-based DVRs, all have these restrictions.

20TIL6

05-27-2009, 07:09 PM

If you've followed this thread you know that the new DirecTV/Tivo HD DVR should arrive in early 2010. But don't expect it to have unlimited PPV viewing. That change was driven by the Hollywood movie industry, not DirecTV or other PPV providers. The current DVRs, including Tivo-based DVRs, all have these restrictions.

Yeah, the good ole days of DirecTV PPV rented onto a DirecTV/TiVo, and the content just staying on the hard drive, those days are gone.

One small clarification though. On the new TiVo standalones, like the S3 and HD, it's true that rental content (like from Amazon) does expire off the machine. But purchased content does not expire (of course). A neat deal with Amazon is that they keep a record of your digital purchases. So you could buy content, download, watch, and then delete. If you wanted to watch that content again, you just go to Amazon's site and freely re-download your previously purchased content to your TiVo.

And I mention this primarily because every once in a while a raft of digital movie content will go on sale. So whereas a rental might cost $3-$5, you might be able to purchase it on sale for $7-$9. So it's almost like those good ole DirecTV PPV days.

I would be shocked if any of this capability came to the new HD DirecTV/TiVo due out next year.

samo

05-27-2009, 07:26 PM

And I mention this primarily because every once in a while a raft of digital movie content will go on sale. So whereas a rental might cost $3-$5, you might be able to purchase it on sale for $7-$9. So it's almost like those good ole DirecTV PPV days.

I would be shocked if any of this capability came to the new HD DirecTV/TiVo due out next year.
I see a very little benefit in purchasing movies over renting. True, you have to watch your PPV in 24 hours and it could be inconvenient, but besides that the benefit of "archiving" PPV is very limited. You are not likely to watch PPV movie again in a next few months (with a trash they produce, I can't recall the movie made in last 3-4 years that I watched second time) and by that time it will be on HBO or Showtime and you can record it again and keep forever if you wish.

20TIL6

05-27-2009, 07:49 PM

I see a very little benefit in purchasing movies over renting. True, you have to watch your PPV in 24 hours and it could be inconvenient, but besides that the benefit of "archiving" PPV is very limited. You are not likely to watch PPV movie again in a next few months (with a trash they produce, I can't recall the movie made in last 3-4 years that I watched second time) and by that time it will be on HBO or Showtime and you can record it again and keep forever if you wish.

Good point.

litzdog911

05-27-2009, 08:56 PM

I would never trust my DVR's hard drive with "purchased" movies, unless I could easily make a back up or burn to my own DVD. I'll stick with NetFlix or buy the DVDs.

Matt L

05-28-2009, 02:56 AM

The $5.99 price point for a D 24 hour movie is just too high. Sure it's nice that it's 1080p/24 but for the price of 3 movies i get unlimited 2 at a time Blu ray for Netflix, and streaming to boot.

I just got |The Reader on Blu for Netflix and it's also sitting as pushed content on my HR23-700, can't say I see much difference in quality, D may be a touch softer, but not enough to notice,

sjberra

05-28-2009, 07:01 AM

Thanks for coming through with an expected response.

Glad I could brighten someone's day.

Bottom line is - it is the truth.

1. can you get one today? - nope, nothing exists at the moment
2. Is there a set release date? - nope, still sometime in 2010

All answered no, therefore that places it in the "pipe dream", vaporware or blue smoke and mirrors classification. When it hits the streets in quantity, then it is valid and real, until then - vaporware

sjberra

05-28-2009, 07:08 AM

nrc

05-28-2009, 04:02 PM

The latest from TiVo during their Q1 conference call is "not likely to rollout until early next year." Note that this doesn't rule out earlier and doesn't give any reason to expect that it may be later.

Answering a question about availability and when DTV will begin marketing, Tom Rogers replies:

Well, when I say available, I mean available to consumers and when it’s available to consumers their marketing obligations are part of that. The timeframe there is somewhat dependent on what the ultimate feature collection is that gets delivered so they're, DIRECTV is pointed to a somewhat a near term timeframe. We’ve pointed to that timeframe in early next year and the marketing though, will commence as soon as it is available to the public.

There's an implication there that DirecTV is dictating a certain release schedule and not, as some here like to claim, that there has necessarily been a delay because of TiVo.

justbrett

05-28-2009, 09:06 PM

sluciani

05-28-2009, 09:43 PM

[...]There's an implication there that DirecTV is dictating a certain release schedule and not, as some here like to claim, that there has necessarily been a delay because of TiVo.How can DirecTV's product marketing be contributing to the delay of a product who's features are unknown at this time?

Well, when I say available, I mean available to consumers and when it’s available to consumers their marketing obligations are part of that. The timeframe there is somewhat dependent on what the ultimate feature collection is that gets delivered so they're, DIRECTV is pointed to a somewhat a near term timeframe. We’ve pointed to that timeframe in early next year and the marketing though, will commence as soon as it is available to the public.

I don't know about others, but here's how I interpret those remarks:

DirecTV is obligated to market the product once it's available to consumers. Check.
The marketing timing depends on knowing what the final feature set will be. Check.
DirecTV has their sights set on something "near term". Our sights are set on early next year. We're writing the software, so it will be done according to our timetable, not DirecTV's.
Once we make the product available, DirecTV's marketing can commence. After that, any further delays will be DirecTV's.

pretzelbag

05-29-2009, 01:55 AM

How can DirecTV's product marketing be contributing to the delay of a product who's features are unknown at this time?

I doubt the features are unknown to DirecTV at this time -- they are to us, of course, but I find it hard to believe that DirecTV's product marketing team hasn't nailed down the major features.

As much as this is a TiVo product, DirecTV product management surely sets the development agenda on an equal footing to their TiVo counterparts. DirecTV wouldn't enter into any agreement with TiVo if they didn't get that control...

-pretzelbag.

nrc

05-29-2009, 03:15 AM

How can DirecTV's product marketing be contributing to the delay of a product who's features are unknown at this time?
Nobody said that. The comment implies that they're targeting a release timeframe that has been specified by DirecTV.

sjberra

05-29-2009, 07:59 AM

Yeah, but do you think they've upped the anti-modding protections on the new TiVo? I know the modded hard drive plus PPV restrictions that my parents had done on their TiVo is a pretty common thing...I gotta believe that techie guys could figure out ways around the restrictions on the new TiVo, too.

Suspect that you can pretty well be assured that there will be little ability to "mod" the new tivo, they already have it in their line of units and would suspect that it will be a project design requirement for the upcoming ones.

goony

05-29-2009, 06:29 PM

Glad I could brighten someone's day.

Bottom line is - it is the truth.

1. can you get one today? - nope, nothing exists at the moment
2. Is there a set release date? - nope, still sometime in 2010

All answered no, therefore that places it in the "pipe dream", vaporware or blue smoke and mirrors classification. When it hits the streets in quantity, then it is valid and real, until then - vaporware

Off topic: I find it funny how politicians can promise the moon and it's lapped up by their advocates as 100% gonna happen, take-it-to-the-bank, "good as gold", etc.

Relatively speaking... I believe Tivo Inc./DirecTV as more likely to deliver on a promise than I do any political figure.

sjberra

05-30-2009, 08:06 AM

Off topic: I find it funny how politicians can promise the moon and it's lapped up by their advocates as 100% gonna happen, take-it-to-the-bank, "good as gold", etc.

Relatively speaking... I believe Tivo Inc./DirecTV as more likely to deliver on a promise than I do any political figure.

Don't believe politicians either, they are in it for their own personal gain only and do not care about anything or anybody else. Sometimes the general public gets lucky and the politician does jail time.

as with politicians promises, the new directvio is pure vaporware until it is available to the general public in sufficient quantity so tht those that are willing to pay the upgrade costs can get them. In industry a lot of things are announced and promised, but never see the light of day

Scopeman

06-02-2009, 08:26 AM

I would never trust my DVR's hard drive with "purchased" movies, unless I could easily make a back up or burn to my own DVD. I'll stick with NetFlix or buy the DVDs.

Purchased from Amazon means you do not have to keep a backup - you can download a new copy as needed.

Buying movies from Amazon is useful in some instances. When they are on sale (if cheap enough, like $7 compared to a $4 rental) I purchase movies for my kids to watch. This way they can watch and delete and I know that when they want to watch it again I can re-download without any further fees.

Not the most common usage model, but it shows that there are reasons to purchase vs rent.

Normally, however, we rent via the most convenient source (XBox 360, AppleTV/iTunes, S3 Tivo, etc).

Currently stuck on Time Warner with S3 Tivos and Cablecards/Tuning Adapter - and anxiously waiting for new HD DirecTivo features to be announced before jumping back to DirecTV.

Scopeman

06-02-2009, 08:34 AM

Don't believe politicians either, they are in it for their own personal gain only and do not care about anything or anybody else.

As opposed to small business owners, who are in it for the joy of long hours?
Or the guy who mows my yard, who does it for the scent of grass and not the money he gets paid?
Or my plumber, who must have a fecal fetish, because clearly he is not in it for his personal gain?

I love it when folks suggest that politicians are not allowed to have the same motivations that everyone else has when they go to work in the morning. That view of how politicians "should be" comes from some fairy-tale world, not the real world.

The gap between expectations and reality is not the politicians fault; it is the publics' fault. Reasonable expectations would mean politicians could stop promising unicorns and rainbows as a necessary part of the process.

Sadly, however, candidates who speak truth don't get elected, and therefore the *VOTERS* select the politicians who have to pretend to be altruistic, even though they are just looking for a paying job like the rest of us.

sjberra

06-03-2009, 07:35 AM

Forget it, politics should not be here, this isn't a newpaper where they are trying to look less crooked

BOBCAT

06-10-2009, 11:58 AM

This thread has really gotten off topic.

restino

06-16-2009, 03:27 PM

Anyone know anything about the type, size of hard drive or features on the new tivo?

Will the software be located on the hard drive like tivos or in the ram like directv units?

innocentfreak

06-16-2009, 06:11 PM

no details are known about the new Directivo at all.

sjberra

06-17-2009, 07:26 AM

Anyone know anything about the type, size of hard drive or features on the new tivo?

Will the software be located on the hard drive like tivos or in the ram like directv units?

As mentioned no details at all at the moment, would suspect that the new software will be placed in a eeprom then on the drive since the general idea is it will be loaded to current Directv hardware. Suspect that directv wants to get away from the "end user" hacks the same way they did on their HR2X units

restino

06-21-2009, 04:22 PM

I would think that with all the insiders here people would know a few details.

Hard drive size is prob going to be 500GB.

What type of equipment will they use? Same setup as HR23 maybe?

It will probably be a lease and no straight out purchase.

Will they expand to 4 tuners?

Same Tivo style software as before I hope or lots of new influence from D* ?

Well, just some guesses anyway.

litzdog911

06-21-2009, 04:31 PM

Pure speculation, restino. We've seen no specific details.

stevel

06-21-2009, 04:35 PM

As far as I know, there are no "insiders" here - just some long-time users/observers.

restino

06-21-2009, 06:56 PM

Speculation yes for sure.

Come on, you guys know everything...

Can you guess what color it would be at least?

stevel

06-21-2009, 07:18 PM

Black or silver

litzdog911

06-22-2009, 02:30 AM

I'm leaning towards dark grey :)

sjberra

06-22-2009, 07:04 AM

I'm leaning towards dark grey :)

neon blue with pink, orange and purple fuzzy spots

restino

06-22-2009, 11:53 AM

I dream of...

dark grey with dark bronzish color trim

1TB Hard Drive

open eSata ports for any hard drive

4 turners

very soft lights on front that can be enabled on/off in various ways

tivo peanut style remote control

and lots of special tivo codes to make it do new stuff as a surprise.

SullyND

06-22-2009, 12:11 PM

4 turners

Ike? Tina? Ted? Who's #4?

stevel

06-22-2009, 12:13 PM

Ike? Tina? Ted? Who's #4?

Curtis?

temp357

07-06-2009, 11:55 PM

As far as I know, there are no "insiders" here - just some long-time users/observers.

What about Earl?

innocentfreak

07-07-2009, 12:00 AM

Earl left. If he posts here anymore it is under another name. He went to work for DTV so if he posts at all it is on dbstalk.com and also under another name since he would be too well known under his old name.

stevel

07-07-2009, 08:55 AM

Also, just to be clear, when Earl was posting here he did not yet work for DirecTV, though he obviously had some contacts in the company.

plazman30

07-07-2009, 09:05 AM

They seriously hemmed hand hawed and acted like there in no release date of any kind. They said it was announced and they couldn't tell me any more.

When I asked about it after the announcement, I was told Q3-Q4 of 2009. Now they won't even commit to that!

Andy

stevel

07-07-2009, 10:31 AM

When you call DirecTV, you are talking to service agents that do not have access to release schedules and the like. All they can tell you is what is in press releases.

shibby191

07-07-2009, 10:42 AM

And you're asking CSRs who would have no clue. Heck, the only information anyone has is what Tivo has said and as noted above they have said they hope to have it out in 2010. That could mean it won't be out in 2010 at all. Nobody knows. I've said for a long time now, if you're "holding out" for a new DirecTivo you're going to be waiting for a long, long time. Besides it's still just vaporware. Let's see if they show anything at CES in January. If they don't and are still mum then be very worried if it will come at all.

20TIL6

07-07-2009, 11:54 AM

I have TiVo today. Until the new DirecTV/TiVo rolls out, it's DirecTV's loss, not mine. I'm not holding out for TiVo, I'm holding out on becoming a DirecTV customer again. That's the way I see it.

Scooter

07-08-2009, 09:28 PM

innocentfreak

07-08-2009, 10:07 PM

I have TiVo today. Until the new DirecTV/TiVo rolls out, it's DirecTV's loss, not mine. I'm not holding out for TiVo, I'm holding out on becoming a DirecTV customer again. That's the way I see it.

Same here since I switched to Fios. Even browsing the CE section for the Directv DVR doesn't excite me since still no fix for the 50 series link limit. Until then I don't care what Directv does with their DVRs.

fasTLane

07-08-2009, 10:13 PM

Bring on the Tivo. You can keep your house box.

bigpuma

07-08-2009, 10:40 PM

Same here since I switched to Fios. Even browsing the CE section for the Directv DVR doesn't excite me since still no fix for the 50 series link limit. Until then I don't care what Directv does with their DVRs.

Sure there is a fix. 2 DVRs. :D

Matt L

07-09-2009, 02:27 AM

I used to get excited about the thought of a new TiVo powered Directv box. Quite honestly, I don't care anymore. My HR2X boxes work just fine. They should have done this long ago. I think it's too late now.

Gotta say the same. I was really bent out of shape over loosing my TiVo, but 2 months in and I really don't care. At this point I will not spend $$$ to get one. The delays and such have cost them a customer, and I'd lay odds more than one. There would have to be some killer apps to get me to go back to TiVo. The CE has all the functionality I need, and I have 3 HR2x networked so I have 150 season passes available to me, the most I had on any of my TiVos was 64. The HR2x's networking is the killer app as far as I'm concerned.

innocentfreak

07-09-2009, 03:00 AM

Sure there is a fix. 2 DVRs. :D

Which in my case would be 6 DTV Dvrs to one Tivo since this last season we hit 260 season passes on the main Directivo. I am currently at 162 season passes and there isn't much on right now.

That would be $600 upfront assuming each DVR costs $100 + $25 a month in receiver fees or I can buy one lifetime Tivo HD + 1TB upgrade drive for $600 and rent a cable card for $3.99 a month, not to mention the fact my Fios bundle which includes internet, phone, and every channel is cheaper than my Directv bill which doesn't even include HD. Guess which choice I made?

bigpuma

07-09-2009, 09:54 AM

Which in my case would be 6 DTV Dvrs to one Tivo since this last season we hit 260 season passes on the main Directivo. I am currently at 162 season passes and there isn't much on right now.

That would be $600 upfront assuming each DVR costs $100 + $25 a month in receiver fees or I can buy one lifetime Tivo HD + 1TB upgrade drive for $600 and rent a cable card for $3.99 a month, not to mention the fact my Fios bundle which includes internet, phone, and every channel is cheaper than my Directv bill which doesn't even include HD. Guess which choice I made?

No question the series link limit is a problem for some customers. DirecTV decided to trade # of series links for speed. For me they made the right choice as I don't need more 50 per DVR and I love the speed. I tweek my prioritizer all the time on my HR2x DVRs whereas with the older HR10 I rarely looked at it since it would literally take 5 minutes to make changes.

Now with MRV the limit is really meaningless to me as I can have up to 100 but even before MRV when I did hit the 50 limit I could easily go into the prioritizer and clear out old shows or shows I no longer watch. For you that obviously wouldn't work but I am guessing you are in a small minority with that number of SPs.

innocentfreak

07-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Oh I know I am in the minority when it comes to the number of season passes. I just have issues with the fact the only way around it is to buy more leased receivers. It also doesn't help that this was supposed to replace the Tivo but can't even do what the Tivo can.

As far as speed I have never had issues with the speed of Tivo so I don't get the big deal about the speed of the DTV DVR. Yeah the prioritizer of the DTV DVR may be faster but I don't go in the season pass manager everyday so it is easy to go in when I know I won't need to use the Tivo for a few minutes. Also there is the whole issue with the DTV DVR having the to do list in memory so everytime you lose power or have to reboot you have to wait for the DVR to rebuild the to do list.

I can do the same on the Tivo HD except I am not limited to the number of shows which also means I don't have to clear out the series link every time a show goes off the air. I may be in the minority when it comes to the high number but even my parents have 65 shows or so on each of their Directivos which would mean two DVRS to one Directivo. It also means two series link to manage versus one. It also means two receiver fees versus one.

shibby191

07-09-2009, 10:53 AM

Which in my case would be 6 DTV Dvrs to one Tivo since this last season we hit 260 season passes on the main Directivo. I am currently at 162 season passes and there isn't much on right now.

That would be $600 upfront assuming each DVR costs $100 + $25 a month in receiver fees or I can buy one lifetime Tivo HD + 1TB upgrade drive for $600 and rent a cable card for $3.99 a month, not to mention the fact my Fios bundle which includes internet, phone, and every channel is cheaper than my Directv bill which doesn't even include HD. Guess which choice I made?

Yep, you made the right choice for you. But you are the rare case where 50 isn't enough. Heck, we only have 30 and we don't have enough time to watch what that records. ;)

The common thought on the 50 limit is for performance reasons. I remember on every DirecTivo I had once you got above about 40 or so season passes and wishlists it would slow down to a crawl to do things (perhaps this isn't a problem on the stand along Tivo's). First thing my wife commented when we got our first HR20 was how fast it was compared to the Tivo's. Over time we ended up replacing all the Tivo's in the house. Big bonus to 2 DVRs is 4 tuners. Having 4 tuners is a must as we often have triple and quad conflicts in the fall. Side effect is we get 100 series links should we need them.

But good for you there is a choice.

By the way, I wouldn't expect the upcoming whole home DVR from DirecTV to have a limit of 50. :D So perhaps that limit will be lifted for you in a year or less.

innocentfreak

07-09-2009, 11:28 AM

Yep, you made the right choice for you. But you are the rare case where 50 isn't enough. Heck, we only have 30 and we don't have enough time to watch what that records. ;)

This would be why I upgraded the drives and I am just now getting around to watching some of the shows from this season. I really don't think I am that rare as far as going above 50. I think most people just have multiple DVRs so they are used to spreading them out over multiple boxes. Everyone I know who has a DVR has more than 50 shows.

The common thought on the 50 limit is for performance reasons. I remember on every DirecTivo I had once you got above about 40 or so season passes and wishlists it would slow down to a crawl to do things (perhaps this isn't a problem on the stand along Tivo's). First thing my wife commented when we got our first HR20 was how fast it was compared to the Tivo's. Over time we ended up replacing all the Tivo's in the house. Big bonus to 2 DVRs is 4 tuners. Having 4 tuners is a must as we often have triple and quad conflicts in the fall. Side effect is we get 100 series links should we need them.

I have Directivos still and they don't crawl at all with 200+ season passes. I really think most people who complain about the speed have other issues with the Directivos. I know my mother's Directivo was really slow and a couple months later the drive failed. She only had 50 or so shows on that box since it wasn't her primary box. I even find the Directivos faster than the Tivo HDs I have. I have never had only one DVR due to conflicts so I completely understand the need for more tuners.

But good for you there is a choice.

By the way, I wouldn't expect the upcoming whole home DVR from DirecTV to have a limit of 50. :D So perhaps that limit will be lifted for you in a year or less.

I agree. I am glad I have the choice since if I didn't I would have long abandoned DVRs and found another way for getting the content although it may not have been as legal.

The problem is at this point I have already switched to Fios and for me to come back to Directv it would require a lot. My Directv bill is $109 for the top package, no HD, and no DVR fee since I am grandfathered in before you add taxes and receivers. Fios is 129.99 a month before taxes for internet 20/5, phone with unlimited long distance, and every channel including HD. Cable cards are $3.99 versus a $5 receiver fee.

bengalfreak

07-11-2009, 06:45 AM

The issue about the slow season pass list on DirecTivos was resolved several software releases ago.

20TIL6

07-12-2009, 07:16 PM

The problem is at this point I have already switched to Fios and for me to come back to Directv it would require a lot. My Directv bill is $109 for the top package, no HD, and no DVR fee since I am grandfathered in before you add taxes and receivers. Fios is 129.99 a month before taxes for internet 20/5, phone with unlimited long distance, and every channel including HD. Cable cards are $3.99 versus a $5 receiver fee.

I'm waiting on DirecTV to offer TiVo again, but really, if FiOS was offered in my area.....I'd be tickled.

Citivas

07-28-2009, 05:02 PM

I used to get excited about the thought of a new TiVo powered Directv box. Quite honestly, I don't care anymore. My HR2X boxes work just fine. They should have done this long ago. I think it's too late now.

Ditto.

I held out for a long time with an HR20 upstairs but my 10-250 for our main TV. For the first 6 months the HR20 SUCKED worse than any consumer electronics device I have ever owned. It was would have been generous to call it a beta box -- even alpha was a stretch. It crashed daily, I had about a 60% chance of my program recording, and if it did a decent change it would record nothing.

But they kept improving the software and after a while it was minimally tolerable. Now its even decent and crashes less than my Tivo used to, and I haven't had any problems with missed recordings. It still is a bummer to not have dual buffer and it still has poor logic about skipping an entire show if the previous show goes a minute over (and the second tuner is doing another show). But these aren't dealbreakers. On the plus side it is WAY faster in the menus and season passes, etc. And they finally have a "channels I receive" view that really works and makes sense. And I can get 1080p downloads. Etc.

I would still consider a DirecTV TiVo box if the specs matched or beat the DirecTV HD unit and I paid no monthly premium. Or I would even consider as premium if they offered the stuff the stand-alone HD Tivo's do, like Netflix and the ability to extend rather than replace with extra HD's. But otherwise I've moved on...

stevel

07-28-2009, 08:16 PM

Dual buffer and MRV should be coming to the national release REAL soon now.

litzdog911

07-28-2009, 11:07 PM

Looks like Dual Buffers (DoublePlay) will launch before MultiRoom Viewing.

cowboys2002

07-28-2009, 11:32 PM

Ike? Tina? Ted? Who's #4?

me! (my last name):)

bengalfreak

07-29-2009, 07:15 AM

Dual buffer and MRV should be coming to the national release REAL soon now.

Too bad its not possible to replace my DTivos with new DirecTV boxes without having to sign a new 2 year contract or I would give it serious consideration.

Matt L

07-30-2009, 12:59 AM

Too bad its not possible to replace my DTivos with new DirecTV boxes without having to sign a new 2 year contract or I would give it serious consideration.

You can. They will swap out an HR10-250 for the new equipment and install a new dish for free. Also you can buy Hr20 receivers on ebay that are owned not leased, and add them to your account with out commitment. I picked up 3 that way over the last few months. Ranged for $55-$140 for the ones I bought.

As I posted in another thread, I'm sorry i waited so long. Love all the great HD and all the goodies you get with CE.

samo

07-30-2009, 04:41 AM

You can buy HR22 from Costco for $170. I'm not sure if you have to sign up for 2 years or not.

sjberra

07-30-2009, 07:01 AM

You can buy HR22 from Costco for $170. I'm not sure if you have to sign up for 2 years or not.

not bought at costco, still a leased unit, and yes in 99.9 percent of the case it is a 2 yr commitment

shibby191

07-30-2009, 10:54 AM

If you're going to stay with DirecTV anyway why worry about the 2 year commitment? I never do. But if you think you might leave then I can see the concern.

samo

07-30-2009, 07:16 PM

not bought at costco, still a leased unit, and yes in 99.9 percent of the case it is a 2 yr commitment
And i do not see much difference between "bought" and "leased". According to Matt L he was able to buy HR20 on e-bay for $55. How much of the residual value will be on your DVR couple of years from now even if you buy it? If you drop DirecTV your DVR is useless to you and has almost no re-sale value anyhow.

sjberra

07-30-2009, 07:36 PM

And i do not see much difference between "bought" and "leased". According to Matt L he was able to buy HR20 on e-bay for $55. How much of the residual value will be on your DVR couple of years from now even if you buy it? If you drop DirecTV your DVR is useless to you and has almost no re-sale value anyhow.

bottom line, units obtained through costco, best buy, joe's bait, tackle and satilite tv dealers are not bought units (aka owned) they are leased units, people tend to assume since they pay 150-200 they own them, which they do not.

as far as ebay, long as the person verifies that unit is truely avialable for sale by the reviever id and are aware that they will more then likely need to pay Directv 20 for a access card.

most of the hr2x series I see are 100+, only ones below 100 are hr10's.

samo

07-30-2009, 08:06 PM

bottom line, units obtained through costco, best buy, joe's bait, tackle and satilite tv dealers are not bought units (aka owned) they are leased units, people tend to assume since they pay 150-200 they own them, which they do not.

as far as ebay, long as the person verifies that unit is truely avialable for sale by the reviever id and are aware that they will more then likely need to pay Directv 20 for a access card.

most of the hr2x series I see are 100+, only ones below 100 are hr10's.
Let me clarify the reasoning for leasing. Leased HR22-HR23 can be "purchased" for under $200. Cheapest HR21 PRO (only model that is not leased and has the same size hard drive) from reputable dealer is $400.
Monthly cost is the same. You pay penalty if you do not return leased unit or you pay extra $200 upfront for the non-leased unit. Makes no sense to buy for me.

Matt L

07-31-2009, 03:09 AM

I have no contract and choose to keep it that way. I can walk away at any time easily.

If you are a smart ebayer there are deals to be had. The HR20's I got normally sell in the $150-$200 range, but ofttimes people put them in the wrong category, and they are missed by most. ANY leased receiver will incur a 2 year commitment, regardless of where purchased. If shopping on ebay always get the RID# and call D and ask if it is leased or owned, if it is owned it stays that way on your account.

And, if you choose to leave D, you can sell them, they are yours to do wiht as yu please. If it's leased and you pay $200+ when you quit D they want them sent to them and none of that money is returned to you. Fact is I see these owned boxes as having a potentially high resale value for the time being.

sjberra

07-31-2009, 07:32 AM

Let me clarify the reasoning for leasing. Leased HR22-HR23 can be "purchased" for under $200. Cheapest HR21 PRO (only model that is not leased and has the same size hard drive) from reputable dealer is $400.
Monthly cost is the same. You pay penalty if you do not return leased unit or you pay extra $200 upfront for the non-leased unit. Makes no sense to buy for me.

Makes sense here - no contract extension with purchased equipment.

I am well aware of the true purchased unit, the thing I am trying to point out is the FUD that is put forth sometimes when people assume that the 199 they are paying for a unit at bestbuy, costco, or any other place is a lease acquistion cost and not a purchase, they do not own the unit like they assume, that is the main issue here.

BTW you can find HR21-Pro's for a little over 200 if you look around. Never saw anything referencing your comment of "you pay extra $200 upfront for the non-leased unit" not even the people I have dealt with in the access card department has heard of it, the normal report non-returned unit cost has been stated at 400 on the various forums

samo

07-31-2009, 08:30 PM

You can always find bargains and/or sell for more if you are good at that. People make living buying low and selling high. I'm sure that Matt L done very well with his approach on e-bay and I'm sure that some people bought HR21 PRO for less than $400. I'm also sure that a lot of people, myself included, are not that good at bargain hunting nor want to be bothered with re-selling used hardware on e-bay. For me the choice for the third HR22 I got was either leased from Costco for $170 or purchased from dishdepot.com at $400.
For me 2 year contract was not a problem because I just extended it a month or so before to get my second HR22 for free from DirecTV. And actually because I need programming that only DirecTV has, I don't see myself quiting DirecTV any time soon. But what works for me may not work for another guy, the options are available as other posters mentioned.

SgtClueLs

08-10-2009, 10:17 AM

This is great news. I know the initial release will be very costly (And maybe prohibitive for me for a few months) but I will be going back to DirecTiVo. Ahh the Cadillac of DVRs.

cthomp21

08-10-2009, 03:36 PM

So, I couldn't hold out on upgrading to HD any longer and did the "Free HD Swap" to replace a couple of HR10's on my account with a pair of HR22's. I figured I'd have to upgrade my dish anyways when the new HD Directivo comes out. Worse case scenario would be swapping the HR22's out for some SD Directivo's (the HR10 have been relocated elsewhere in the house).

Some thoughts on my experience over the past few weeks with the HR22's:

Slow - They are much slower than any of my Directivo's when navigating around. One of them is extraordinarily slow (my wife is constantly complaining and yelling at the new box)
Interface - The interface, while nowhere near intuitive as a Tivo, is acceptable. I wish it had more options to customize it more to my liking (NP list especially)
Remote - The remote is a bit too complicated (guess I'm having peanut withdrawal) although its RF and extra features are useful
Picture Quality - The HD material looks fantastic.
Recording - I just can't understand the logic here. I'm getting repeats when setting to first run only. I haven't been able to record a single White Sox game when setting up an autorecord wishlist even when telling it to record practically everything White Sox related. I don't like the series links being tied to a single channel. The 50 series links limit will approach awfully quickly (especially to get it to record the programs I want).
MRV - No multi room viewing (yet). I can't wait for this feature to come out. I didn't realize how much I used it in the past with our SD Directivos.
DLB - No dual live buffer (yet) - Double Play is also supposed to be out soon. Hurry up already!!!
MediaShare - This is a great feature. I'm using Tversity and can view anything on my computer. I like that it's streaming (unlike Tivoserver). But, it can sometimes stutter. It also lacks the ability to RW or FF. You can only pause/play. I'm looking forward to Mediashare improvements and will maybe try the Play On Software.

To sum up, HD is great but the interface is slow with some missing features (which should hopefully show up soon) and is nowhere near as intuitive as Tivo. I'm really, really looking forward to the new HD Directivo and will probably get a pair of them to replace my HR10s when they come out. That is, if they ever show up....

stevel

08-10-2009, 05:46 PM

Speed of new DVRs is always an issue as there is background processing going on. Also, I know that some work is being done to speed up the interface - it should come out soon.

mp11

08-10-2009, 08:58 PM

I have TiVo today. Until the new DirecTV/TiVo rolls out, it's DirecTV's loss, not mine. I'm not holding out for TiVo, I'm holding out on becoming a DirecTV customer again. That's the way I see it.

I agree. Except I really dont see myself going back to Directv. Things will have to take a very bad turn with Charter cable. I'm happier than I ever thought I'd be with cable. Excellent picture quality, my locals in HD(which Directv couldnt supply), and a full blown Tivo...not the watered down variety...life is good. :)

Rowsdower

08-10-2009, 09:39 PM

20TIL6

08-10-2009, 11:12 PM

I agree. Except I really dont see myself going back to Directv. Things will have to take a very bad turn with Charter cable. I'm happier than I ever thought I'd be with cable. Excellent picture quality, my locals in HD(which Directv couldnt supply), and a full blown Tivo...not the watered down variety...life is good. :)

Oh yeah. Going from DirecTiVo to S3/HD standalones.... having the standalones gives you a great benchmark to measure the new DirecTiVo against.

There are some must haves, and maybe some I could live without.

Comcast has been OK. Once everything is working, it's great. And it has been for a while. Just some cablecard issues, that do get resolved, but you have to really find the right person to help you. Until then, you are this TiVo using, generic DVR rejecting malcontent customer that nobody really knows how to help. So unless FiOS comes to town (not holding my breath), if the new DirecTiVo has the mix of features I want..... I'm open.

Matt L

08-11-2009, 01:03 AM

shibby191

08-11-2009, 09:48 AM

Rowsdower

08-11-2009, 09:56 AM

So if you want any concrete information on it look to Tivo, not DirecTV.
My understanding is that TiVo isn't contractually permitted to issue such public announcements without DirecTV's consent.

shibby191

08-11-2009, 02:46 PM

My understanding is that TiVo isn't contractually permitted to issue such public announcements without DirecTV's consent.

That may be but DirecTV ain't talking. They have never mentioned or talked about this since the initial press release over a year ago. They obviously aren't all the concerned about it. Unlike Tivo who talked this up a lot until they announced their delay back in January. Now they ain't talking either.

The key here is though like any other product by any other company we aren't going to get any solid info until it's near end of development and on the scheduled to be released. That we haven't heard anything so far is pretty telling. Haven't even had a sniff about it being in beta. CES is in 5 months. IF it's coming out next year I would fully expect Tivo to demo it. If they don't then be very worried about it never happening.

mp11

08-11-2009, 04:48 PM

That may be but DirecTV ain't talking. They have never mentioned or talked about this since the initial press release over a year ago. They obviously aren't all the concerned about it. Unlike Tivo who talked this up a lot until they announced their delay back in January. Now they ain't talking either.

The key here is though like any other product by any other company we aren't going to get any solid info until it's near end of development and on the scheduled to be released. That we haven't heard anything so far is pretty telling. Haven't even had a sniff about it being in beta. CES is in 5 months. IF it's coming out next year I would fully expect Tivo to demo it. If they don't then be very worried about it never happening.

Hard to disagree at this point. The longer it goes with no word...the worse the outcome. I always believed from day one, Directv was gonna treat Tivo like a red headed stepchild. And they have. Why would they want direct competition with thier own DVR? They did this because they felt they needed to. It's a "keep you enemies closer" senario.

20TIL6

08-11-2009, 04:53 PM

I wish that DirecTV would provide some sort of concrete information on the project's status (beyond "it's delayed"). I mean, it isn't even clear exactly what this box is going to be.

My family is tired of waiting (especially as the number of MPEG-2 HD channels continues to dwindle), and we're tempted to purchase some standalone TiVo HD boxes and switch back to cable. We've subscribed to DirecTV since January 2002, but our loyalty is to TiVo.

Looks like Shibby's given you your answer. DirecTV doesn't really care about offering a new DirecTiVo. And since you want one, it seems they don't care about you either. DirecTV has some protection against an infringement lawsuit from TiVo, and they are doing their best to orphan existing DirecTiVo users and push them onto the in-house DVR. Shibby's research proves that.

Will there be a new DirecTiVo? Maybe. But my family's loyalty is to TiVo, just like yours. So no TiVo, no DirecTV. A few years ago, we canceled our 13 year customer relationship with DirecTV and bought S3 and HD standalone units. Like I said earlier, the weakest part of this combination is cable support of cablecards in the new standalones. But once you get past that, and it's locked in and working, it's fine.

Can it be a hassle, yes. But if you are like me, and a vendor is not providing the services you want, the hassle can be rewarding in the end because you are no longer paying someone who does not give a crap about you. And honestly, that's what it comes down to. DirecTV has plenty of other customers to replace you with. Maybe these replacement customers will give them 13+ years of business, or 23+ years as I would have if they had not messed with my preferred DVR.

So I am open to look at the new DirecTiVo if it is ever released. But I was not going to have an HR2X forced onto me just so that I could keep paying DirecTV for content I could get elsewhere.

Give a TiVo HD a shot. Really, I should say give your cable provider a shot. The TiVo HD is a great box with all its broadband features built-in (Amazon, Netflix, etc). And take advantage of OTA if you can.

If you decide to drop DirecTV, and they don't have a solid commitment lock on you, be prepared for a very tiring phone call. Just repeat over and over again, "That's great, but I still want to cancel". The retention CSR I spoke with went as far as to say that TiVo doesn't work with cable (while I was watching my cable-connected S3 during the phone call, she's telling me TiVo won't work with cable).

Good luck.

parzec

08-11-2009, 05:01 PM

That may be but DirecTV ain't talking. They have never mentioned or talked about this since the initial press release over a year ago. They obviously aren't all the concerned about it. Unlike Tivo who talked this up a lot until they announced their delay back in January. Now they ain't talking either.

The key here is though like any other product by any other company we aren't going to get any solid info until it's near end of development and on the scheduled to be released. That we haven't heard anything so far is pretty telling. Haven't even had a sniff about it being in beta. CES is in 5 months. IF it's coming out next year I would fully expect Tivo to demo it. If they don't then be very worried about it never happening.

Yes, this is beginning to look like a PR move to try and hold onto customers that were defecting from D* to the Tivo-HD. I could see DirecTV paying some money to Tivo to "study the feasibility of the project" that would allow them to make this announcement, but without ever having the intention on following through on production. I agree -- if no prototype is at CES this year, then I call BS on the whole thing.

fasTLane

08-11-2009, 05:31 PM

The retention CSR I spoke with went as far as to say that TiVo doesn't work with cable (while I was watching my cable-connected S3 during the phone call, she's telling me TiVo won't work with cable).LOL. Been down that road. :p

Anyway, Direct will eventually lose this house if The Box is not forthcoming. :cool:

sjberra

08-11-2009, 05:48 PM

Looks like Shibby's given you your answer. DirecTV doesn't really care about offering a new DirecTiVo. And since you want one, it seems they don't care about you either. DirecTV has some protection against an infringement lawsuit from TiVo, and they are doing their best to orphan existing DirecTiVo users and push them onto the in-house DVR. Shibby's research proves that.

Will there be a new DirecTiVo? Maybe. But my family's loyalty is to TiVo, just like yours. So no TiVo, no DirecTV. A few years ago, we canceled our 13 year customer relationship with DirecTV and bought S3 and HD standalone units. Like I said earlier, the weakest part of this combination is cable support of cablecards in the new standalones. But once you get past that, and it's locked in and working, it's fine.

Can it be a hassle, yes. But if you are like me, and a vendor is not providing the services you want, the hassle can be rewarding in the end because you are no longer paying someone who does not give a crap about you. And honestly, that's what it comes down to. DirecTV has plenty of other customers to replace you with. Maybe these replacement customers will give them 13+ years of business, or 23+ years as I would have if they had not messed with my preferred DVR.

So I am open to look at the new DirecTiVo if it is ever released. But I was not going to have an HR2X forced onto me just so that I could keep paying DirecTV for content I could get elsewhere.

Give a TiVo HD a shot. Really, I should say give your cable provider a shot. The TiVo HD is a great box with all its broadband features built-in (Amazon, Netflix, etc). And take advantage of OTA if you can.

If you decide to drop DirecTV, and they don't have a solid commitment lock on you, be prepared for a very tiring phone call. Just repeat over and over again, "That's great, but I still want to cancel". The retention CSR I spoke with went as far as to say that TiVo doesn't work with cable (while I was watching my cable-connected S3 during the phone call, she's telling me TiVo won't work with cable).

Good luck.

Unlike you my families loyalty is to the content, there only two worthwhile providers in this area and neither will support a TIVO box (not that I miss it at all, nor would it matter) at all, Directv and Uverse. The only two things the are holding me from moving to Uverse is the poor record time for their whole house DVR and ony 4 video streams if you are lucky. The cable company is a joke for what they provide and how much they charge for what little content they provide once the "great deals" run out

bigpuma

08-11-2009, 05:55 PM

Yes, this is beginning to look like a PR move to try and hold onto customers that were defecting from D* to the Tivo-HD.

I am guessing that DirecTV signing this deal with TiVo had more to do with avoiding future lawsuits than customer retention. There has never been a mass exodus from DirecTV due to the lack of TiVo. DirecTV's churn rate has stayed consistently low.

Rowsdower

08-11-2009, 07:03 PM

Can it be a hassle, yes. But if you are like me, and a vendor is not providing the services you want, the hassle can be rewarding in the end because you are no longer paying someone who does not give a crap about you.
Unfortunately, our local cable provider is Comcast, which continually demonstrated that it didn't give a crap about us.

We switched our television service to DirecTV in 2002 because of the availability of DirecTiVo boxes (which replaced our standalone TiVo units), while continuing to subscribe to Comcast's Internet service (which was fine at the time). But as the years went by, the Internet service became worse and worse, and Comcast wouldn't do a damn thing to address our increasingly frequent outages. Finally, we switched to Verizon's much slower (but reasonably reliable) DSL service.

Meanwhile, we've had mostly positive dealings with DirecTV (apart from the TiVo issue), and we have "lifetime" DVR activation tied to the account.

If we knew for a fact that the new DirecTiVo offering was vaporware, we'd throw in the towel and put up with Comcast until Verizon FiOS reached our area. But for the time being, we're still holding out hope. (And yeah, CES might be the breaking point.)

20TIL6

08-11-2009, 07:08 PM

Unlike you my families loyalty is to the content, there only two worthwhile providers in this area and neither will support a TIVO box (not that I miss it at all, nor would it matter) at all, Directv and Uverse. The only two things the are holding me from moving to Uverse is the poor record time for their whole house DVR and ony 4 video streams if you are lucky. The cable company is a joke for what they provide and how much they charge for what little content they provide once the "great deals" run out

We missed Sunday Ticket during that first season without DirecTV. Now, not so much. Between locals, ESPN, and NFL network, we've got our football fix. Saving that nearly $300 per season has been nice.

Other than the exclusive sports deals with DirecTV, I can't think of any other content I am not able to get through cable, or OTA, or broadband to the standalones. If I was tied to more than just Sunday Ticket, like maybe MLB or NHL, then it might have been more difficult. But I'm not into baseball or hockey.

If my only choices were DirecTV or U-verse, I'd go with DirecTV too. I had U-verse for a short while, three months. Not impressed. But by the same token, if those were my only choices, I might try to get by with just a TiVo with OTA and broadband. That's probably not doable.... yet.

shibby191

08-11-2009, 07:22 PM

Yes, this is beginning to look like a PR move to try and hold onto customers that were defecting from D* to the Tivo-HD. I could see DirecTV paying some money to Tivo to "study the feasibility of the project" that would allow them to make this announcement, but without ever having the intention on following through on production. I agree -- if no prototype is at CES this year, then I call BS on the whole thing.

Puma pretty much said it. The *real* reason for the latest contract with Tivo was:

1) Extend support of the current DirecTivo's (there are still a couple million of them after all).
2) No sue clause for either one (remember that DirecTV has all of Replay's patents now). This runs thru 2018 which is when the Tivo patents end. Funny how that works out. ;)
3) DirecTV finally got a reasonable rate they liked for Tivo to make a new DirecTivo. From what we can gather it's basically "we'll just pass on the cost to the customer and not eat any of it, if Tivo is so great they'll pay it". It's a win-win for DirecTV since they don't eat any of the Tivo fee, they just pass it on with a little on top for themselves. If the new Tivo box fails to sell well they aren't out much money and if it's a success then all it good there too. Basically all the risk is on Tivo. DirecTV can very easily eat a few million in development costs if it fails, Tivo not so much.

As for customers defecting, ummmm, what customers? DirecTV hasn't offered an SD DirecTivo receiver for almost 5 years now, HD version for going on 4 (there were still some tricking out into 2006 though). Since then DirecTV has done nothing but grow at record pace and has record low churn (customers leaving). Meanwhile cable keeps losing subs. Comcast alone lost 200,000 last quarter. So I see no uptake in cable subs due to Tivo. Heck, DirecTV will add as many new customers this year as Tivo has in total across all platforms.

60% of their new customers get an HD DVR and over 60%of their current sub base now has one of their DVRs.

This means nearly over 10 million DirecTV customers have their DVR.
At it's peak there were only about 4 million DirecTivo's, way under 2 million now as they die off from old age.
The amount of people leaving DirecTV just because of Tivo isn't even a half a drop in the 5 gallon bucket, not enough for them to even notice.

I think most people got a reality check on this a year or so ago but some still haven't. ;)

Now having said all that, it doesn't mean that Tivo isn't #1 important for you and others. It's just that for most people it isn't. I've always suggested that you should be happy. And if Tivo with cable will make you happy then I think looking into it would be a good idea. :up:

20TIL6

08-11-2009, 07:28 PM

Unfortunately, our local cable provider is Comcast, which continually demonstrated that it didn't give a crap about us.

We switched our television service to DirecTV in 2002 because of the availability of DirecTiVo boxes (which replaced our standalone TiVo units), while continuing to subscribe to Comcast's Internet service (which was fine at the time). But as the years went by, the Internet service became worse and worse, and Comcast wouldn't do a damn thing to address our increasingly frequent outages. Finally, we switched to Verizon's much slower (but reasonably reliable) DSL service.

Meanwhile, we've had mostly positive dealings with DirecTV (apart from the TiVo issue), and we have "lifetime" DVR activation tied to the account.

If we knew for a fact that the new DirecTiVo offering was vaporware, we'd throw in the towel and put up with Comcast until Verizon FiOS reached our area. But for the time being, we're still holding out hope. (And yeah, CES might be the breaking point.)

Do you have any indication that FiOS is coming? If so, you could go answer your TiVo question and temporarily go back to Comcast. Then jump as soon as FiOS rolls. Like you, I keep my broadband separate from my TV service. I have Comcast for TV and AT&T for DSL. That way, no vendor is too much of a hassle for me to fire.

I would talk with Comcast and be upfront with them. The only reason you are even considering their TV service is so that you can use a cablecard TiVo. I think TiVo gives you 30 days to cancel service and return the unit, so you could give Comcast a month to prove that they can provide you with proper service.

I am not a cheerleader for Comcast at all, but I would think they have improved their service since 2002. As good and as reliable as DirecTV? Maybe. Once we got the cablecard issues resolved, our picture quality and stability have been fine. A 30 day test drive might be just what you need.

It's just too damn bad you can't simply buy a reliable, digital TV signal from any of these companies without them dictating what kind of device you use to record and manage your subscribed content. I watch my TV content on a Sony television; I hope they are OK with that. :rolleyes:

innocentfreak

08-11-2009, 07:42 PM

As for customers defecting, ummmm, what customers? DirecTV hasn't offered an SD DirecTivo receiver for almost 5 years now, HD version for going on 4 (there were still some tricking out into 2006 though). Since then DirecTV has done nothing but grow at record pace and has record low churn (customers leaving). Meanwhile cable keeps losing subs. Comcast alone lost 200,000 last quarter. So I see no uptake in cable subs due to Tivo. Heck, DirecTV will add as many new customers this year as Tivo has in total across all platforms.

I think one reason you don't see a huge number of defectors is people who have Directivos and aren't switching or upgrading don't need HD. Their Directivos work so their is no reason to leave. This applies to my family. My mom has 3 Directivos that I have upgraded. If they stopped working and I couldn't fix them or DTV forced her to switch to their DVR, she would switch to Fios. Since they work she has no reason to since she doesn't need HD so she isn't being forced to make a choice.

Then you have my brother and Father who stay for Sunday Ticket. My brother uses HD and still uses the H10-250 but maybe records 10 shows. He more uses the DTV DVRs for trickplay during games. My father doesn't even think his Directivo can display live TV regardless of how many times I try to show him. As a result he is happy with his Directivos recording all his shows and uses a basic receiver for live TV. Again he doesn't use HD and if he ever makes the upgrade someone else will be teaching him if Tivo isn't an option.

People like me left because I was tired of centercut SD programming and refused to replace my Tivo and pay extra for HD versions of the same channels I already pay for just so I can record TV in OAR. I made the switch to Fios and couldn't be happier. I realize I am the rare breed but then again Directv has done some things that just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Rowsdower

08-11-2009, 08:26 PM

Do you have any indication that FiOS is coming?
I know that it will arrive here eventually, but no time frame has been announced.

If so, you could go answer your TiVo question and temporarily go back to Comcast. Then jump as soon as FiOS rolls.
Yes, that's what we're tempted to do.

I am not a cheerleader for Comcast at all, but I would think they have improved their service since 2002.
Actually, we were quite happy with their service in 2002, and it was downhill from there. We finally became fed up with their Internet service (and attitude) and switched to Verizon DSL in late 2007.

Of course, their television service might still be fine. I just know that the company itself continually and increasingly failed to provide adequate customer care.

We're also mindful of the possibility that DirecTV will offer a fairly generous retention deal. We certainly would prefer that to spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,300 for four TiVo HD boxes with "lifetime" service (especially if we were to later learn that the new DirecTiVo box was just around the corner).

20TIL6

08-12-2009, 01:09 AM

We're also mindful of the possibility that DirecTV will offer a fairly generous retention deal. We certainly would prefer that to spending somewhere in the neighborhood of $2,300 for four TiVo HD boxes with "lifetime" service (especially if we were to later learn that the new DirecTiVo box was just around the corner).

That's a good point. If I was in your shoes, and really prepared to jump, I'd make DirecTV a retention offer on my terms. Like, knock off some amount of money from my monthly bill, and keep crediting that discount until DirecTV can offer you the new HD DirecTiVo. Sounds reasonable, right? You joined DirecTV because of TiVo, they took TiVo away, they should charge you less. :eek:

And if they say no, you cancel. If they say yes, you could set aside that savings until either they offer the new DTiVo, or you just can't wait any longer and you use that savings to put toward the standalones with lifetimes. Be aware that DirecTV will most likely lock you into a new commitment for at least the duration of the discount.

In a quirky sort of way, you could think of DirecTV as actually funding a portion of your probable and eventual standalones/lifetimes purchases. Might make DirecTV's delays worthwhile.

Matt L

08-12-2009, 01:13 AM

All these "I want my Tivo" and "I'm loyal to TiVo not D" comments sound very familiar, I said them all over the last couple of years. But with 2 new plasmas and a LCD in the past few months and I wanted more HD content. And to be honest the hatred of comcast out weighed my love for TiVo so I bit the bullet and took the free upgrade. Added the CE and I'm not looking back. All I can say to you folks who are adamant about not switching is take the free upgrade, it costs nothing, does not lock you in, and does not mean you have to give up your DTiVo. There really isn't a down side.

At least keep an open mind. the HR2x's are not wonderful, but they are not the devil either. I'm putting up with a few blips with the CE but I have more functionality than my DTIVo's ever had, MRV is a dream come true, and I get a hell of a lot more HD.

Rowsdower

08-12-2009, 06:54 AM

That's a good point. If I was in your shoes, and really prepared to jump, I'd make DirecTV a retention offer on my terms. Like, knock off some amount of money from my monthly bill, and keep crediting that discount until DirecTV can offer you the new HD DirecTiVo.

We've received many substantial discounts over the years. Instead of threatening to cancel our subscription (which some people have done as a bluff), I've simply informed the retention department that I've read about customers receiving [the best deal that anyone is reporting at that time]. They've always cheerfully provided everything that I've requested.

But at this point, we don't want to lock into a new commitment without MPEG-4 DirecTiVo boxes in front of us. We're thinking more along the lines of an eventual free or low-cost upgrade path to the new DirecTiVo hardware (or TiVo-enhanced DirecTV hardware, or whatever the heck it ends up being if it actually becomes a reality).

And if it turns out to be vaporware, nothing is going to keep us with DirecTV. We want more HD content, and we'd rather deal with Comcast than give up TiVo.

fasTLane

08-12-2009, 07:07 AM

And if it turns out to be vaporware, nothing is going to keep us with DirecTV. We want more HD content, and we'd rather deal with Comcast than give up TiVo.+1

sjberra

08-12-2009, 07:18 AM

20TIL6

08-12-2009, 10:32 AM

Will be curious how the new findings come out in the courts regarding Tivo's patents.

I think that's the key right there. IMO, the Replay IP is of very little protection for DirecTV. If it was substantial IP, either TiVo or especially DISH, would have scooped it up long ago (TiVo has not been timid in acquiring IP, they have bought quite a bit from IBM). Besides DirecTV has been quite timely in re-upping their deal with TiVo. It tells me that much, if not all of this, is riding on the outcome of the patent litigation.

And on that front, I read this morning that DISH is wanting to raise $1billion in debt securities. TiVo is asking something like $975million in sanctions damages.

Whether this will have a direct impact on DirecTV and their DVR strategy... who knows? It certainly does not hurt TiVo's position.

20TIL6

08-12-2009, 10:39 AM

BTW, for a topic that started in Sept. 08, and some think is a vaporware product with very little demand.... this thread has a lot of activity. Both views and replies. Whether that is caused by actual interest, or mostly interest in sharing opinion.....?

sjberra

08-12-2009, 02:55 PM

I think that's the key right there. IMO, the Replay IP is of very little protection for DirecTV. If it was substantial IP, either TiVo or especially DISH, would have scooped it up long ago (TiVo has not been timid in acquiring IP, they have bought quite a bit from IBM). Besides DirecTV has been quite timely in re-upping their deal with TiVo. It tells me that much, if not all of this, is riding on the outcome of the patent litigation.

And on that front, I read this morning that DISH is wanting to raise $1billion in debt securities. TiVo is asking something like $975million in sanctions damages.

Whether this will have a direct impact on DirecTV and their DVR strategy... who knows? It certainly does not hurt TiVo's position.

If the PTO rejects TIVO patent because of two prior ones, it will put a completely different light on everything. Initially the office has rejected TIVO's software claims

shibby191

08-12-2009, 03:26 PM

shibby191

08-12-2009, 03:30 PM

I think that's the key right there. IMO, the Replay IP is of very little protection for DirecTV. If it was substantial IP, either TiVo or especially DISH, would have scooped it up long ago (TiVo has not been timid in acquiring IP, they have bought quite a bit from IBM). Besides DirecTV has been quite timely in re-upping their deal with TiVo. It tells me that much, if not all of this, is riding on the outcome of the patent litigation.

And on that front, I read this morning that DISH is wanting to raise $1billion in debt securities. TiVo is asking something like $975million in sanctions damages.

Whether this will have a direct impact on DirecTV and their DVR strategy... who knows? It certainly does not hurt TiVo's position.

I'm not sure why it effects DirecTV at all. DirecTV and Tivo have a contract in place that states they cannot sue each other and it runs until 2018. Doesn't matter if Replay's IP means anything or not (or for that matter if Tivo's IP means anything or not), they have an agreement/contract to not sue each other. That simple really.

20TIL6

08-12-2009, 04:26 PM

If the PTO rejects TIVO patent because of two prior ones, it will put a completely different light on everything. Initially the office has rejected TIVO's software claims

I am assuming you are talking about DISH's latest attempt at invalidating TiVo's '389 patent. They attempted this before, and initially the PTO ruled in the same way. Then TiVo had their turn to argue the points and then the PTO ultimately upheld the patent as valid. This last attempt by DISH is by combining two claims as one, and then arguing that the combined claims are obvious and the patent should be found invalid.

And so the process starts again with the PTO opening up the inquiry, and for TiVo to respond. It could certainly be a completely different light as you say if the PTO ultimately invalidates a patent that they just previously reviewed and validated.

To me, the argument of obviousness loses its edge when you have to ask that the patent be investigated a second time.

Do you think DirecTV cares one way or the other?

fasTLane

08-12-2009, 05:09 PM

Well, it *is* the same 2 dozen people talking back and forth with each other. ;)No kidding. :rolleyes:

sjberra

08-13-2009, 07:25 AM

I am assuming you are talking about DISH's latest attempt at invalidating TiVo's '389 patent. They attempted this before, and initially the PTO ruled in the same way. Then TiVo had their turn to argue the points and then the PTO ultimately upheld the patent as valid. This last attempt by DISH is by combining two claims as one, and then arguing that the combined claims are obvious and the patent should be found invalid.

And so the process starts again with the PTO opening up the inquiry, and for TiVo to respond. It could certainly be a completely different light as you say if the PTO ultimately invalidates a patent that they just previously reviewed and validated.

To me, the argument of obviousness loses its edge when you have to ask that the patent be investigated a second time.

Do you think DirecTV cares one way or the other?

Actually no I don't think they really give a rats rearend. Same as with the release of the tivo box for directv, if it comes, it comes. Would hazard a guess that 70 percent of current directv subscribers have no bloody idea what a Directivo is, nor do they give a flying fart. Sorry, given the latest release of financials - Directv does not need a tivo based unit, tivo needs a directv based unit

wesmills

08-13-2009, 09:11 AM

I think one reason you don't see a huge number of defectors is people who have Directivos and aren't switching or upgrading don't need HD. ...
People like me left because I was tired of centercut SD programming and refused to replace my Tivo and pay extra for HD versions of the same channels I already pay for just so I can record TV in OAR. I made the switch to Fios and couldn't be happier. I realize I am the rare breed but then again Directv has done some things that just leave a bad taste in my mouth.

My family, too, stuck with DirecTiVos for so long because all of our units just worked, and worked well. However, technology progresses and so, too, did our televisions. Eventually it got painful watching center-cut (aaaargh) SD on comparatively-modest HD sets, so when we started looking for somewhere to move, FiOS was high on the list. In our new residence our choices are satellite or FiOS since the cable company hasn't yet wired this property.

Why not take the free HD upgrade offer from DirecTV and let them do a "mover's connection" and hook everything up in our new house for me for free, without the $850 up-front cost for 3 TiVo HD units and their associated expanded storage? Easy: I'd have a riot on my hands. My wife and kid have both used the HR15 standard definition DVR and refused to use that "pile of crap." My kid even quit watching TV entirely for the short time the HR15 was his only option. That's how devoted we are to our TiVos.

If DirecTV shows up with a TiVo that will let us do what we do now, I would probably switch back. We like MRV, we like streaming Netflix, we love HD; all three of those must exist, and hopefully they will. I'd like to get MLB Extra Innings in HD (as opposed to the 1-game-in-HD we get on FiOS), but not enough to use DirecTV's DVR; the desire to watch Nats games (stop laughing) instead of listening to them on XM isn't that strong. Sure, we're in the minority, and it's probably not enough for DirecTV to care about, but that's the neat thing about competition.

FiOS + TiVo HD = Greatness.

shibby191

08-13-2009, 10:57 AM

. My wife and kid have both used the HR15 standard definition DVR and refused to use that "pile of crap." My kid even quit watching TV entirely for the short time the HR15 was his only option. That's how devoted we are to our TiVos.

You probably mean the R15 which was indeed crap and they themselves haven't been made for a couple years now.

FYI the current set of DVRs from DirecTV are nothing like the NDS programmed R15. Light years difference.

But it probably doesn't make a difference to you from the sounds of it. Vast majority of people I know could care less what their DVR is (heck the many of them with cable and Uverse DVRs say that) they are happy as punch to have a DVR. It's the programming that they care about and if the DVR records the programs and they can watch it, that's all they care about. Those that just can't live without Tivo are rare. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Heck, most people have never even used a real Tivo. I'm about the only one (Tivo since 2000).

Rainy Dave

08-13-2009, 05:25 PM

Why not take the free HD upgrade offer from DirecTV and let them do a "mover's connection" and hook everything up in our new house for me for free, without the $850 up-front cost for 3 TiVo HD units and their associated expanded storage?

Does something like the free HD upgrade exist for current subscribers who are using SD DirecTivos?

I've called and inquired and was offered an HD DVR for $200 (plus shipping) plus they'd waive the HD fee for 6 months.

I'd love to upgrade, but I'm not looking forward to paying $200 each to replace my R10 and DVR40.

innocentfreak

08-13-2009, 05:51 PM

I have yet to see it. This is DTV we are talking about.

I called and officially suspended my service today through 2/1/10. I am happy with Fios, my Tivo HDs, and my 7MC, but I don't want to lose my grandfathered package and E/W SD in case the Directivos end up offering more than what the Tivo HDs can do. I figure if by February there is no news on the new Directivo I will just drop DTV.

shibby191

08-13-2009, 06:53 PM

I have yet to see it. This is DTV we are talking about.

Why should they be obligated to offer free HD upgrades? They do work deals with some people depending on how long they have been a customers, etc. but to expect just any SD DVR to be replaced with an HD DVR for free is just plain silly.

I have certainly never gotten anything free when I've "upgraded" to HD over the years. Paid $600 for my first HD receiver back 7 years ago (price had just dropped from $1000). Paid I think $299 for the HR20 when it became available.

Difference is that I guess I don't expect everything in life to be free. :)

Rainy Dave

08-13-2009, 07:00 PM

I've paid full price for each of the DVR that I've purchased since I've been with DTV (2001).

Do I feel that they are "obligated" to offer free upgrades? Heck no. But, if they had a deal out there then I'd take advantage of it.

innocentfreak

08-13-2009, 08:23 PM

Why should they be obligated to offer free HD upgrades? They do work deals with some people depending on how long they have been a customers, etc. but to expect just any SD DVR to be replaced with an HD DVR for free is just plain silly.

I have certainly never gotten anything free when I've "upgraded" to HD over the years. Paid $600 for my first HD receiver back 7 years ago (price had just dropped from $1000). Paid I think $299 for the HR20 when it became available.

Difference is that I guess I don't expect everything in life to be free. :)

I don't expect them to offer free upgrades nor do I feel they are obligated. I don't believe I said anywhere that I felt they should. My point was more when you are dealing with a company that charges you for every little thing you shouldn't expect it. Case in point, my father uses the SAT-B55 as his main receiver which he paid around $600 for new 8-10 years ago and has since paid $600 or so to use it with the $5 a month receiver fee. It no longer works with Sunday Ticket since it can't tune the channels they moved Sunday Ticket to. He still had to pay to replace the receiver and now has a leased receiver with an additional commitment all because DTV changed the channels. They said if he had the protection plan this wouldn't be the case but also said they wouldn't have replaced the receiver since it isn't broken.

Things like this are why I don't expect them to give you anything for upgrading to HD.

Matt L

08-14-2009, 01:02 AM

Well, he got a bad service rep and if he was familiar with these forums he would have known to hang up. there is no reason for him to pay anything and get a commitment when D requires a change of equipment. I paid nothing, 0, zip, to change to the HR23 from my HR10-250, and I kept my TiVo. I used it for about a month then pulled it from my account. I still have one HR10 active but I'm no longer in love with it, in fact it hardly gets used.

wesmills

08-14-2009, 01:05 AM

You probably mean the R15 which was indeed crap and they themselves haven't been made for a couple years now.

FYI the current set of DVRs from DirecTV are nothing like the NDS programmed R15. Light years difference.

You may be right, but the overriding point for me was that I didn't want to spend $free + $199 + $199 + $whatever-hacked-up-expanded-drives-cost + $2-year-contract-on-DirecTV on a whim and hope that the DVRs had gotten better. Instead, I spent $850 and got three boxes that all have expanded recording capacity (two of them are even supported under warranty :D) and a platform that I know works for us. Our first DVRs were TiVos and everything we've tried since hasn't measured up.

Yep, I'm rare, but I also have a somewhat rare situation: A content provider that will give me what I want for a price I'm willing to pay on a 1-year contract, AND lets me use TiVo. DirecTV doesn't fit the bill, but I hope they do someday because I have no beef with DirecTV's content.

Does something like the free HD upgrade exist for current subscribers who are using SD DirecTivos?

I had an active HR10-250 so they were chomping at the bit to get me to swap it out. No deal on the remaining two DVRs, so they'd be $199/unit (and I wouldn't get to keep them to resell, but the lease vs. own debate is kinda overdone).

Matt L

08-14-2009, 01:07 AM

My kid even quit watching TV entirely for the short time the HR15 was his only option. That's how devoted we are to our TiVos.

That seems like a prime reason to KEEP the unit, a kid not watching TV.

Trust me, I loved my Tivos too, waited 2 years to move on, yet I don't miss it in the least. I paid $1000 for my first HR10-250 when they came out, that is how dedicated I was, had stand alone units in '99 when they hit the market, had a Phillips D TiVo, and lots of other DTiVos, believe me I supported the franchise. But when it comes down to it I really wanted the content, to support my 3 new HD units. The HR2x series is different, but certainly very usable.

parzec

08-14-2009, 08:42 AM

Puma pretty much said it. The *real* reason for the latest contract with Tivo was:......

Except I was specifically talking about the announcement of a new HD-Tivo for DirectTV, not the overall benefits of contract extension.

The announcement of the new HD-Tivo for DirecTV seems designed to placate those remaining customer that are die-hard Tivo users, and to string them on little longer. My theory is that they never intended to create the unit and made the announcement as strictly a PR move. I know that as a DirecTV champion, your knee-jerk reaction is to diminish the importance of Tivo, and that is expected, but I still believe DirecTV would like to keep getting the money of those "few" Tivo users that remain. In any event, we'll know soon enough if Directivo/Tivo is able to present a working prototype at CES.

FYI - I finally extracted myself from the DirecTV choke-hold contract, switched to Tivo-HD and couldn't be happier with the move. Free OTA HD locals that is superior in quality to the re-compressed local channels that are far from free through DirecTV. That is what makes me happy, and I'm sure you have your reasons to stick with D*.that make you happy. I say, to each his own...

Enrique

08-14-2009, 09:35 AM

shibby191

08-14-2009, 11:08 AM

Except I was specifically talking about the announcement of a new HD-Tivo for DirectTV, not the overall benefits of contract extension.

The announcement of the new HD-Tivo for DirecTV seems designed to placate those remaining customer that are die-hard Tivo users, and to string them on little longer. My theory is that they never intended to create the unit and made the announcement as strictly a PR move. I know that as a DirecTV champion, your knee-jerk reaction is to diminish the importance of Tivo, and that is expected, but I still believe DirecTV would like to keep getting the money of those "few" Tivo users that remain. In any event, we'll know soon enough if Directivo/Tivo is able to present a working prototype at CES.

LOL. Well, let's look at a couple facts with this.
1) The announcement of the new HD-DirecTivo was announced as a part of the contract extension. So it's all related. Obviously in the negotiations for this support/no sue contract extension Tivo got what they wanted, the ability to make a new DirecTV box.
2) DirecTV has done nothing more then issue a press release when it was announced.
3) Tivo also did this and then talked it up a lot and said it would be out 2nd half 2009. So it was on the fast track to be released.
They couldn't stop talking it up.
4) Then Tivo shows up at CES with no new DirecTV unit. They won't talk about. "No comment".
5) Then Tivo announces it will be delayed until 2010. We've had no further information in 6+ months now.

As for "placating" customers...I highly doubt it. Why?
1) There aren't that many left to placate. Plus they obviously aren't losing many of these customers based on their continued growth and low churn (the big number in terms of people leaving).
2) You think most of the DirecTivo customers left even know that this new box is planned? Virtually none of them. People outside of this form for the most part don't read press releases or read Engadget to find this stuff out. Only way they'll ever know about it is *after* it's released and DirecTV tells them it's available. So just the announcement of such a box isn't going to do anything to placate people because they don't even know about it. Maybe it'll placate a few dozen people on this forum...big deal...they'll add that many new subs by noon today.

My statement that DirecTV could care less is simply coming from what we know which is:
1) DirecTV hasn't said one word about this new box outside the initial press release over a year ago.
2) DirecTV obviously doesn't need Tivo to keep on growing and keeping customers (the initial HR2x users have been coming off contract for nearly a year now yet churn is actually going *down*.) Tivo has been gone from DirecTV for 3-5 years now. *It's not hurting them one bit, never has.* ;)

Now this isn't saying that Tivo is "bad". Simply stating what is actually going on by the facts that we know. Could be totally wrong.

I think it would be awesome to have a new Tivo box if anything for competition. Competition is always good.

FYI - I finally extracted myself from the DirecTV choke-hold contract, switched to Tivo-HD and couldn't be happier with the move. Free OTA HD locals that is superior in quality to the re-compressed local channels that are far from free through DirecTV. That is what makes me happy, and I'm sure you have your reasons to stick with D*.that make you happy. I say, to each his own...

Excellent. I've always said to go where you will be happy. Life is too short.

bigpuma

08-14-2009, 11:29 AM

3) Tivo also did this and then talked it up a lot and said it would be out early 2009. So it was on the fast track to be released.
They couldn't stop talking it up.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the original announcement said the new HD DirecTiVo would come out in the second half of 2009 not the first. Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

shibby191

08-14-2009, 02:30 PM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the original announcement said the new HD DirecTiVo would come out in the second half of 2009 not the first. Otherwise I agree with everything you said.

Yea, I think you're right. I do remember people going all crazy thinking it was going to be early or in July or something. Like Tivo or DirecTV have ever delivered anything on time let alone early. :eek: ;)

20TIL6

08-14-2009, 05:18 PM

Jonathan_S

08-14-2009, 06:08 PM

[...]
2) You think most of the DirecTivo customers left even know that this new box is planned? Virtually none of them. People outside of this form for the most part don't read press releases or read Engadget to find this stuff out. Only way they'll ever know about it is *after* it's released and DirecTV tells them it's available. So just the announcement of such a box isn't going to do anything to placate people because they don't even know about it. Maybe it'll placate a few dozen people on this forum...big deal...they'll add that many new subs by noon today.

My statement that DirecTV could care less is simply coming from what we know which is:
1) DirecTV hasn't said one word about this new box outside the initial press release over a year ago.
Odd, as a (then) DirecTV subscriber with DTiVos I remember receiving a voicemail from DirecTV earlier this year announcing their extended partnership with TiVo and that a new TiVo HD box would be coming to DirecTV.

(And its also possible, but my memory's a little hazy, that a message got sent to my DTiVos with that same information)

So DirecTV did appear to try to disseminate to a wide range DTiVo owners, and didn't rely on them to be paying attention to press-releasss or blogs to discover this upcoming box.

Sidenote: when I called to drop DirecTV the CSR knew about and mentioned the upcoming DirecTV/TiVo HD box as a reason not to leave DirecTV for FIOS.

fasTLane

08-14-2009, 07:17 PM

Why don't they just do that? Seriously, just cut it and kick out any customers that don't like it.Karma?

samo

08-14-2009, 08:46 PM

These are the impressions I get from some folks here:

The new HD DirecTV/TiVo is vapor, and will probably never come to light.
DirecTV is doing booming business without TiVo. DirecTV does not need TiVo.
Remaining DirecTV/TiVo users are a small population, and getting smaller.
Because DirecTV bought the IP assets of Replay, they have established an argument against infringement.

I'm not debating these impressions. I wonder why DirecTV is paying TiVo for any licensing, support, whatsoever. Clearly DirecTV could save all monies going out as licensing expenses by not extending any agreements. Clearly they could make a final offer to the TiVo die-hards and basically say that after such date, DirecTV/TiVo units will not work. This is a small population, and not all of them will churn. And then DirecTV ends up with what they want... a tightly enclosed system (and I mean financial, but some could argue technical as well).

Why don't they just do that? Seriously, just cut it and kick out any customers that don't like it. Right?:confused:
Because replacing 1.5 million units costs much more than what they pay to Tivo. DirecTV pays TiVo less than a $1 a month per account, at this rate it would take much longer than 8 years to amortize the cost of replacement units. Besides, just by natural attrition and move to HD there will be only negligible number of SD TiVos in service 8 years from now.
As for new HD TiVos, the market will decide. DirecTV can not lose. If people like them they will pay extra, if people don't then Tivo is screwed. Considering how well TiVo HD sells against crappy cable DVRs, I don't think that many people will switch to DirecTiVo HD even if it will become available one day. I certainly will not unless new HD DirecTiVo will have all the features of HR2X and none of the ads (and will not be sold/leased at premium or require extra monthly fees)

20TIL6

08-14-2009, 08:48 PM

Karma?

Yep. I'm sure that's it.

shibby191

08-14-2009, 10:14 PM

These are the impressions I get from some folks here:

The new HD DirecTV/TiVo is vapor, and will probably never come to light.
DirecTV is doing booming business without TiVo. DirecTV does not need TiVo.
Remaining DirecTV/TiVo users are a small population, and getting smaller.
Because DirecTV bought the IP assets of Replay, they have established an argument against infringement.

I'm not debating these impressions. I wonder why DirecTV is paying TiVo for any licensing, support, whatsoever. Clearly DirecTV could save all monies going out as licensing expenses by not extending any agreements. Clearly they could make a final offer to the TiVo die-hards and basically say that after such date, DirecTV/TiVo units will not work. This is a small population, and not all of them will churn. And then DirecTV ends up with what they want... a tightly enclosed system (and I mean financial, but some could argue technical as well).

Why don't they just do that? Seriously, just cut it and kick out any customers that don't like it. Right?:confused:

My guess would be (other then samo said which is probably true too) is that just the cost of litigation, just fighting Tivo in court the next 5 years would cost a whole lot more then whatever contract they have in place. Look at how long they have been fighting Dish and how much Dish owes them (assuming it's held up). Even if it isn't the cost to Dish has been millions.

Now sure DirecTV could just keep Tivo in court forever until they go bankrupt but why go thru all that, spend all those tens of millions to the lawyers and all the potential bad press when they can simply extend their current support/no sue contract and allow Tivo to build a box if they choose at a rate that DirecTV now finds acceptable?

Seems smart on DirecTVs part as it's a win-win. If they went the other route and left it in the hands of the lawyers and clueless judges/juries it could and probably would cost more and potentially damage the company.

I'd rather go for the win-win senario personally. :up: :D