Suggestions no longer recording

[Pete77]

I just bought a LT sub on the 10th September and no mention was made of a reduced featureset when changing from monthly to LT.

If it was that recently and direct from Tivo it seems to me you have a good case for seeking a partial refund. Except that they have not yet reduced the price of the Monthly Sub, as they ought to in this situation.

It seems to me that Tivo ought to reduce the price of the Monthly Sub to £6.99 and a Lifetime Sub to say £149 on an S1 machine if they want to avoid the punters being too unhappy.

[gotty]

Any service based contract can be varied or cancelled by the service provider;

Only if the contract is deemed fair. One of the selling points of the TiVo is suggestions, and its withdrawal (as they've now done) is a significant variation in service.

Suggestions are a significant part of the service.

I've now found my contract and run it past a friend who's a contract lawyer, and she is certain that there would be a case for legal action. However, it may be limited to a full refund of subscriptions paid for the duration of the service not being supplied, plus costs.

[mikerr]

Any permanent reduction/change in fees would require a tivo-US accountant to look at the UK operation,
and at that moment they may decide it aint worth continuing it at all :(

Sometimes it better to remain under the radar...

unless of course they decide to give us the nero PC-tivo software or a S3 machine.... ;)

[cleudo]

You could take the view, however, that they haven't *increased* the sub in the last 8 years or so, so in real terms it's already a lot cheaper now than it was then...

What would it have been if it had been increased by rpi each year from then till now?

[Tim L]

http://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gifhttp://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gifhttp://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gif

[Pete77]

You could take the view, however, that they haven't *increased* the sub in the last 8 years or so, so in real terms it's already a lot cheaper now than it was then...

Except that the value of 10GBP became worth a lot more than it was in US Dollars in October 2000 for most of the ensuing period due to exchange rate changes.

Also they don't charge as much in US Dollars for Tivo service as they do in the UK and I believe reduced the monthly cost in US Dollars at some point along the way.

[Goooner1]

You could take the view, however, that they haven't *increased* the sub in the last 8 years or so, so in real terms it's already a lot cheaper now than it was then...

What would it have been if it had been increased by rpi each year from then till now?

They probably realised they were pushing their luck with £10 per month, had they increased it further, I'd expect they'd have even less customers than now. Even Sky managed to, for all intents and purposes, drop altogether their £10 Sky+ charge.

[Pete77]

http://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gifhttp://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gifhttp://images.penguinoid.com/misc/thumbs_down.gif

Quite.

Your post eloquently makes the point that not only do we not get Suggestions recorded any more but there is no point in Thumbsing Up and Thumbsing Down anything any more on our Tivos. So two of my favourite buttons on the Tivo remote are no longer of any use.

This is a big reduction in service the more you think of it. A Tivo isn't really a Tivo at all without the Suggestions feature working.:eek::mad::down:

[cwaring]

Even Sky managed to, for all intents and purposes, drop altogether their £10 Sky+ charge.
Took them a while though; and it's still there if you don't subscribe to Sky services.

[AdrianWJ]

Maybe there is a new TiVo solution on the horizon:

New software turns PC into TiVo TV recorder

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080929/ap_on_hi_te/apfn_tec_tivo_for_the_pc

http://www.nero.com/enu/liquidtv-introduction.html


Joshua Danovitz, vice president and general manager of international business at TiVo, said the plan is to launch it in Europe next year.

[Goooner1]

Took them a while though; and it's still there if you don't subscribe to Sky services.

But certainly a lot less time than TiVo, obviously:D

There's a a school of thought that Sky only thought they'd charge a £10 per month fee for Sky+ because TiVo were already doing so.

[cwaring]

There's a lot of "schools of thought" around Sky, Sky+ and Tivo ;)

[TCM2007]

If it was that recently and direct from Tivo it seems to me you have a good case for seeking a partial refund. Except that they have not yet reduced the price of the Monthly Sub, as they ought to in this situation.


I think it would be fair to offer a cancellation and full refund in those circumstances.

The fee didn't go up when loads of features were added back in 2002, so I'm not sure why it should be reduced because one is removed in 2008?

It may change the value-for-money calculation so that while they felt it was worth £10 before it's now not. Those people should cancel their subs.

From a business perspective, reducing ALL subs to £8 or whatever means you are giving money back to people who still thought that £10 was fine, even without Suggestions. You'd have to expect over 20% of the whole subscriber base to cancel for that to make any sense; my guess is that the number of people who think Suggestions were that core and essential is lower than that.

[TCM2007]

A Tivo isn't really a Tivo at all without the Suggestions feature working.:eek::mad::down:

Many of us ran with Suggestions turned off, so that is of course just your opinion masquerading as fact!

[OzSat]

The only time I ever looked at the suggestions was when people reported problems in this forum.

[TCM2007]

Also they don't charge as much in US Dollars for Tivo service as they do in the UK and I believe reduced the monthly cost in US Dollars at some point along the way.

The opposite, they put it up. Was originally $9.95 IIRC, now $199 for a year, which is - oh - about £10 a month!

Edit: they've cut it recently to $12.95 a month. Lifetime is $399

[ColinYounger]

Suggestions turned offDitto. But then I'm obsessively minimalistic about my NPL and start to get stressed when I go over a page. :o

[cleudo]

Many of us ran with Suggestions turned off, so that is of course just your opinion masquerading as fact!

Woo - that seems a bit harsh..
To be fair - those thumb buttons are very prominent on everyone's remote and they are (were) a major part of TiVo functionality whether you used the feature or not.

[cwaring]

Woo - that seems a bit harsh..
Not really 'harsh' in the slightest' simply true. but perfectly true. I've noticed in other Forums/newsgroups that some people state opinions as fact; which is not on :)

[andonevris]

Not really 'harsh' in the slightest' simply true. but perfectly true. I've noticed in other Forums/newsgroups that some people state opinions as fact; which is not on :)

Is that a fact or an opinion?? :p

[cwaring]

Touchè; almost ;) The latter is opinion while the former is fact :)

[Pete77]

unless of course they decide to give us the nero PC-tivo software or a S3 machine.... ;)

Thereby allowing us to become a free testbed for the soon to be relaunched UK Tivo service (quietly hands back set of rose tinted spectacles temporarily borrowed from blindlemon):D

[cwaring]

Yeah, 'cos they've always flatly refused a return to the UK market, haven't they :rolleyes:

[johala_reewi]

Although I have record suggestions turned off on my Tivo, I would often pop into the suggestions screen to see what Tivo thought I might like and used the thumbs to tell Tivo what I didn't like.

PS you still need the thumbs down to do a tivo reset so that key still has a use.

[Pete77]

Although I have record suggestions turned off on my Tivo, I would often pop into the suggestions screen to see what Tivo thought I might like and used the thumbs to tell Tivo what I didn't like.

Although I did always have Suggestions enabled as I have a huge recording capacity on my Tivo with hundreds of programs in Now Playing I would only be aware of them when I viewed Now Playing via Tivoweb but I did then quite often find something I would change to Save Until I Delete status that I wanted to view.

In addition I made even more use of the manual Suggestions list to find things I liked the look of that I then set to record. I would also regularly thumbs up unthumbed items in manual suggestions that I liked the look of and thumbs down in anything in that list that was not to my tastes.

So both ways round this is a major loss in functionality.

PS you still need the thumbs down to do a tivo reset so that key still has a use.

That sounds more like the kind of answer I would expect TivoPony or TCM to come up with.;):p

[mikerr]

I could never understand the point of turning suggestions off at all.:confused:
I'm sure most people who did that misunderstood the way suggestions worked;
it didn't save space, or wear and tear(!), and suggestions never prevented anything recording...

Only thing you possibly gain is a longer live buffer, and possibly a smaller NPL.

[Pete77]

I could never understand the point of turning suggestions off at all.:confused:

I'm sure most people who did that misunderstood the way suggestions worked;
it didn't save space, or wear and tear(!), and suggestions never prevented anything recording...

Only thing you possibly gain is a longer live buffer, and possibly a smaller NPL.

But if you have Tivoweb and like to Undelete things that you suddenly think better of having deleted then having Suggestions enabled will mean that you cannot Undelete most deletions done more than a day or two ago as Suggestions does regard deleted programs as being free space that it can consume with Suggested recordings.

[TCM2007]

Only thing you possibly gain is a longer live buffer, and possibly a smaller NPL.

Fewer shows with "sex" in the title on the disk for the kids to see, just because you once thumbed up Sex in the City?

My TiVos always ran full, so Suggestions being off or on was academic really.

[Pete77]

My TiVos always ran full, so Suggestions being off or on was academic really.

This is true of mine on the whole but there is always a Suggestion at the bottom of the list that gets replaced every day or so. And sometimes one sees one of the things it is recording when the tv is sitting there live recording with the volume turned down and so end up setting up a Season Pass for the program in that way.

[verses]

Only thing you possibly gain is a longer live buffer

For me it was to guarantee that TiVo wouldn't change channel while live TV was being watched - heresy, I know.
When mine or my wife's parents would babysit, it was easier to cancel all upcoming recordings and let them watch Live TV than try to explain that TiVo would want to change channel from time to time.
As this situation arose far more often more often* than TiVo recording a suggestion that I actually wanted to watch I eventually just left suggestions disabled.

Cheers,

Ian

*Even then it's only a handful of times a year that they babysit, which say something for how valuable I found suggestions to be when they were enabled.

PS: I suppose there's a potential hack there that temporarily disables TiVo's recording functions while a non-TiVo person is wanting to use the telly.

[DeadKenny]

Maybe there is a new TiVo solution on the horizon:

New software turns PC into TiVo TV recorder
...
Plenty of software like that about. They've been doing TiVo-like PVR systems on Linux for years. Okay not by TiVo themselves.

Though getting one that will record direct off Sky is somewhat tricky (not to mention involving some legal issues!). The best of them legally can only do what TiVo does and involve analogue/digital conversions. In which case Sky+ and more so Sky HD is attractive as a replacement if you want better picture quality.

When I first got TiVo it wasn't really relevant as I had a 28" CRT and then later a 32" CRT. But moving up to a 40" HD LCD where the picture is massive and the clarity of an LCD is pin-sharp by comparison, I find TiVo's picture to be a struggle. Even compared to upscaled SD DVDs.


Really, if I'm to replace my Series 1 TiVo, I want something with a better picture, and if I want to keep Sky, my only choice for a decent picture, sadly is Sky+ or Sky HD (the latter preferable for both the HD picture and also upscaling of SD).


The only time I ever looked at the suggestions was when people reported problems in this forum.
Doesn't mean suggestions should be just dismissed though because some people saw no value in them. I can see how some will want to cling onto hope and try to dismiss it though in a "well, I never used it anyway, who needs it" kind of way. Doesn't make it any better though. TiVo UK is on it's way out.

For me I found it learnt my viewing habits very well and the bonus of this is it would record things I might want to watch if I have time but without filling up the player. i.e. things I really wanted to watch took priority.

As I never bothered upgrading the player this was rather important for space reasons.

[Goooner1]

Doesn't mean suggestions should be just dismissed though because some people saw no value in them. I can see how some will want to cling onto hope and try to dismiss it though in a "well, I never used it anyway, who needs it" kind of way. Doesn't make it any better though. TiVo UK is on it's way out.



If you're on a lifetime sub, with no extra additional costs each month, I suppose it's a lot easier to dismiss suggestions as not important, but when you're now, like me, paying out £120 per year, for what's now basically a poor-mans Sky+ with much poorer pic/audio quality but with a half decent EPG.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the TiVo EPG (without suggestions) can do that Digiguide can't, only a hell of a lot cheaper:rolleyes:

[mikerr]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the TiVo EPG (without suggestions) can do that Digiguide can't, only a hell of a lot cheaper:rolleyes:

The digiguide data doesn't link series together where the title changes. Thats partly what the TMSID is for.

Without it season passes are just title wishlists.

[Pete77]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the TiVo EPG (without suggestions) can do that Digiguide can't, only a hell of a lot cheaper:rolleyes:

How about Wishlists or easily showing all possible showings of that program on any channel in the next three weeks on one screen? Also does Digiguide do three weeks of data rather than just one week?

Also does Digiguide have a 28 day rule not to record another showing of the same episode of the program during the next 28 days.

[cwaring]

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what the TiVo EPG (without suggestions) can do that Digiguide can't, only a hell of a lot cheaper:rolleyes:
Doesn't automatically record anything :p

I've lost suggestions and paying monthly; and although I agree it's slightly annoying, I'm really not that bothered.

[TCM2007]

How about Wishlists or easily showing all possible showings of that program on any channel in the next three weeks on one screen? Also does Digiguide do three weeks of data rather than just one week?

Actually Diguigide does all those things.

Also does Digiguide have a 28 day rule not to record another showing of the same episode of the program during the next 28 days.

DigiGuide's just an EPG, so it doesn't record anything.

[Goooner1]

Actually Diguigide does all those things.



DigiGuide's just an EPG, so it doesn't record anything.

Well, so far there don't seem to be too many downsides to Digiguide compared to TiVo and to save £115 per year, I think I could live with setting up recordings myself ;)

Someone give me a reason to keep my TiVo, as I do really love it, honest :) It's without doubt the best gadget I've ever owned, but losing suggestions has put into perspective how much I'm spending on it (especially now money is getting tighter than ever, with just about everything going up on a seemingly weekly basis :)) for what it actually does. A month ago, I would happily have continued with TiVo for ever more, but now I'm starting to see how it would be possible to live without it, something I daren't even consider before:D

[mikerr]

Well, so far there don't seem to be too many downsides to Digiguide compared to TiVo and to save £115 per year, I think I could live with setting up recordings myself
Setting up recordings yourself...on what?

Liefetime subbed tivos have never been cheaper on ebay,
but for a monthly sub:

Is 33p a day really too much for the convenience tivo brings?

[Goooner1]

Sky HD.

33p per day compared to 1p per day for Digiguide. Don't get me wrong, as I've said the TiVo EPG is great, but then if I record everything on Sly, I'm also getting superior audio and picture quality.

I rarely use wishlists, most stuff I watch is either via season pass or suggestions, with suggestions now gone that leaves the season pass, which Sky HD can cope with, not as well admittedly but it's not that bad and the pressing the green button during a trailer to set up a recording is quite handy at times too.

[DanielB]

So not really adding any original thought except general annyance, at buying a TiVo for my friend a couple of months back to give to them for there wedding (last week) as a gift, and now the main feature I was raving about have vanished.

imho it is approaching now being no more specail than most PVRs, and without this, I do wonder if it is any better than the integration you get from say having a single vendor solution like the Sony TV and Sony DVR and single remote, recording ease and integration.

I hope they return soon, or time to look for another gift..... Doh....

I get no suggestions, I was a way for a week and checked in and not a single one. Also the sequence of off/on/force call makes no difference.

[martink0646]

So not really adding any original thought except general annyance, at buying a TiVo for my friend a couple of months back to give to them for there wedding (last week) as a gift, and now the main feature I was raving about have vanished.

imho it is approaching now being no more specail than most PVRs, and without this, I do wonder if it is any better than the integration you get from say having a single vendor solution like the Sony TV and Sony DVR and single remote, recording ease and integration.

I hope they return soon, or time to look for another gift..... Doh....

I get no suggestions, I was a way for a week and checked in and not a single one. Also the sequence of off/on/force call makes no difference.

Hi Daniel,

Sorry to tell you but they are gone for good. See here - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=406543

There is a solution though. See this link - http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=404932

Hope that helps.

Martin

[pj280167]

TiVo's been recording both the first and repeat showings of the following programmes.

Never Mind The Buzzcocks ( New series, not the repeats on Dave )
Later Live with Jools Holland
Mock the Week
8 out of 10 Cats ( If I remember correctly )

Does anyone know whether this is a function of the new EPG data format or just my TiVo misbehaving ? I vaguely remember this issue being mentioned elsewhere in the forum but for the life of me can't find the thread.