Install Question - Adding another Tivo

[momolabs]

Fist let me say I have read the sticky FAQ.

Here is the setup: We have a SD-DVR40 in the living room, and a non-Tivo directv receiver in the master bedroom. A third non-Tivo receiver in another bedroom will not power on, (but we never used it much in there anyway). We bought a used HR10-250 Directivo and it works great upon testing it in place of the DVR40, but I have questions about how to hook it up permanently with the others.

We have the triple LNB dish (not covered in the multiswitch/LNB FAQ) with 4 cables running out of it. 2 cables to the Tivo, and one to each bedroom. I would actually like to install the HR10-250 in the living room in the rack with the DVR40, but I don't know how to change the cabling. I would really like to maintain just 2 cables coming into the living room if possible. I am assuming I cannot just split the SAT IN 1 cable to both Tivos, and do the same with the SAT IN 2 cable.

Would I be correct if I thought I just needed a 2x4 multiswitch installed right in the living room between the two Tivos?

If so (or even if not) what suggestions would you all have?

Powered/Unpowered?

Does it have to be cascadable?

Multiswitch model or store/price reccomendations?

The triple LNB dish has its own multiswitch, but that doesn't help or hurt me in this situation, right?

Anything else I need to consider?

Thanks All!

[JimSpence]

In order to use all satellites (101, 110, and 119) from your triple LNB dish, each DVR requires two lines, either directly from the dish or another multiswitch. If you use a multiswitch (4x8) all four lines from the dish need to be connected to it.

Splitting the existing cables will not work. You could use a 2x4 multiswitch in the living room, but that restricts the channels received to just the core satellite at 101. This switch can be unpowered.

[momolabs]

Thanks for the response, and I am trying to follow. I believe my triple LNB dish has a built in multiswitch, as I already receive channels from all 3 satellites via the two cables currently running to the living room. It seems you are saying that if I put another 2x4 multiswitch on those 2 cables and run 2 directivos in that room, those two cables would suddenly be restricted to just the 101 satellite?

Is there reading or an article someone can point me to where this situation is addressed? Most Muiltiswitch discussions I have seen either leave out of the discussion, dual tuner devices, or leave out the triple LNB dish, etc...

[classicsat]

Correct. Each cable can carry only one of the four signals the dish can provide, and a 2x multiswitch can only input the 101 signals, and a 4x multiswitch needs four lines in.

[momolabs]

Hmmm. Well we don't watch the spanish language channels, and the 110 satellite is already blocked by a tree. The only reason we got the HR10-250 (other than the Tivo) was so we could tune in the HD/digital locals OTA and Tivo them. We don't subscribe to any sports or even movie packages right now and have no plan to sign up for DirecTV HD Access anytime soon. Is there any other reason to be concerned to being limited to the 101 SAT? I am guessing all the Total Choice + channels are on the 101 anyway? Would I lose anything I currently have by adding a 2x4 multiswitch right in the room with the two Tivos?

[TedM]

Thanks for the response, and I am trying to follow. I believe my triple LNB dish has a built in multiswitch, as I already receive channels from all 3 satellites via the two cables currently running to the living room. It seems you are saying that if I put another 2x4 multiswitch on those 2 cables and run 2 directivos in that room, those two cables would suddenly be restricted to just the 101 satellite?

Is there reading or an article someone can point me to where this situation is addressed? Most Muiltiswitch discussions I have seen either leave out of the discussion, dual tuner devices, or leave out the triple LNB dish, etc...

Think of it this way. There are four sets of signals that can come from the dish: 101-odd, 101-even, 119-odd and 119-even, and each cable can only carry one of these at a time. You then take two cables from the dish (actually the built-in multiswitch) and connect these into a 2x4 multiswitch and then run the four outputs to four DTV receivers (or the tuners in two DTivos).

Now, tuner 1 tunes a channel carried on 101-odd so the 2x4 multiswitch uses one of the 2 upstream cables for 101-odd. Tuner 2 tunes a cannel on 119-odd so the multiswitch uses the other upstream cable for 119-odd. Tuner 3 tries to use 101-even but the multiswitch does not have a third upstream cable for 101-even. BOOM!

This is not strictly accurate as a 2x4 multiswitch would not even handle the signaling to select the 119 satellite. However, this shows the capacity problem. You would get exactly this problem if you used a 4xn multiswitch but only connected two upstream ports.

I hope this helps clearify the problem.

[momolabs]

Thanks Ted, I think that does help me conceptualize it.
If I am reading right: if I add the 2x4 multiswitch to the existing 2 cables coming in to the living room, (changing nothing at the dish), and direct the 4 outputs to the two DirecTivo receivers, it will work fine, but only for the 101 bird. I further assume I should set up both Tivos to believe that they are connected to a regular round dual LNB dish, vs the actual triple LNB dish? Is this thinking correct?

[unclemoosh]

Think of it this way. There are four sets of signals that can come from the dish: 101-odd, 101-even, 119-odd and 119-even, and each cable can only carry one of these at a time.

I don't want to turn this into a multiswitch thread. But...

Based on the above quote, how are the two sets of signals from the 110 bird handled? :confused:

[rlj5242]

I don't want to turn this into a multiswitch thread. But...

Based on the above quote, how are the two sets of signals from the 110 bird handled? :confused: D* broadcasts on transponders 28, 30 & 32 from the 110 location. The Sat-C LNB shifts those signals down to look like they are being sent from transponders 8, 10 & 12 (different frequencies). D* transmits from transponders 20-32 on 119. With a combiner, they make 119 look like it carries 8, 10, 12, 20-32 when talking about a multi-switch. The receivers are smart enough to know that transponders 8, 10 and 12 on 119 are really from 110 and that is how they are displayed.

-Robert

[momolabs]

D* broadcasts on transponders 28, 30 & 32 from the 110 location. The Sat-C LNB shifts those signals down to look like they are being sent from transponders 8, 10 & 12 (different frequencies). D* transmits from transponders 20-32 on 119. With a combiner, they make 119 look like it carries 8, 10, 12, 20-32 when talking about a multi-switch. The receivers are smart enough to know that transponders 8, 10 and 12 on 119 are really from 110 and that is how they are displayed.

-Robert
Now THAT, I actually knew. (read it somewhere when researching this)

Nice threadjack attempt moosh. :)

[JimSpence]

It seems that you don't need anything but 101, so go for the 2x4 switch and enjoy.

BTW, Check these two sites to see if there are any HD channels that may interest you.
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa110.html
http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/directvusa119.html
They are highlighted in green.

[unclemoosh]

Now THAT, I actually knew. (read it somewhere when researching this)

Nice threadjack attempt moosh. :)

I didn't know that. Thanks for the education.

And now, back to the original topic... :D

[momolabs]

Thanks again Jim, and thanks for the lists of channels on the other sats. Sounds like I am good for now, although the HD HBO and ESPN are tempting. My locals seem to come in fine OTA. I can't believe we had a 50" HD ready TV for 3 years and just now got an OTA HD tuner... I think I have the old 18" round dish in the garage that we installed ourselves back in the pre-tivo dark ages. Would that have come with a 2x4 multiswitch if I had two DSS receivers connected to it at one time? My CRS is acting up and that was quite a few years ago. If I have a multiswitch somewhere I would like to know, BEFORE I start hunting for it... :) It was a round 18" with a single dual LNB. I honestly can't remember how many cables I had coming in to each DSS or how they were split to run both on one dish.

[JimSpence]

That round dish was a dual LNB model, meaning it had two outputs to support two receivers. With only two standard receivers you didn't need a multiswitch. Good luck and I'm going to guess that it won't be long before you upgrade your dish for the new MPEG4 HD dish. Keep watching for a larger rollout of the Single Wire Multiswitch (SWM), this will allow you to use just one wire for all satellites with the newer receivers.

[momolabs]

Thanks again Jim.

Three things are keeping me from upgrading right now:

1. Facing the loss of my owned DirecTivo units for leased DVRs,

2. Not getting a good upgrade deal from DirecTV compared to new service deals

3. To a lesser extent, the cost of the HD package when I already get a bunch of local HD channels OTA for free. We haven't ever paid for packages before, but seeing the HD channels has opened my eyes somewhat. Although I still have a huge maple blocking the 119 bird to a great degree.

[rlj5242]

I already get a bunch of local HD channels OTA for free. If that is the majority of your TV watching, then great. But if not, then you are really missing out on the HD channels. Out of over 100 season passes on 3 DVR's, less than 5 of my shows are still broadcast in SD only.

-Robert