ComTiVo 1.05 software - doesn't stink

[lkupersmith]

With the latest 1.05 software update, the Comcast TiVo box is getting to be pretty acceptable, maybe even competitive with an actual TiVo box. The Guide is a lot faster plus they've added 24 hour jumps in the Guide. I haven't had any unreasonable pauses while setting recordings either. The Guide even now indicates Repeats.

The only problems I still have are fairly minor
1. The Zoom feature doesn't stick. This problem carries over from the 1.03 software. Press Zoom, first it shows the mode you're in (Panel), then press again and you have full zoom, but about 30 seconds later it's gone. Doing this the second time usually works. Also when forward fasting in OnDemand, the zoom resets instantly.
2. Guide doesn't work for about a minute or two after customizing which channels to show in settings. This one's really no big deal at all.

Hopefully nothing bad appears over the next few weeks.

If you went back to the Comcast DVR software, I'd recommend giving ComTiVo another try as long as you can get the latest software where you live.

[markjrenna]

WOW! This is EXCELLENT news! I am hoping the roll out can commence past NE soon. Fingers crossed!

[BlackBetty]

version 1.05 is a GIANT improvement!! I'm sure this will be going nation wide soon. 1.05 is ready for prime time.

[Naugahide]

Many issues seem to be much better with 1.0.5, but to me the bottom line is the hardware is not reliable, and the 180GB hard disk is only big enough for a trivial amount of HD recording. I've ordered a genuine Tivo unit (refurb) from tivo.com with 500GB external drive and will advise on how that goes.

[tivogurl]

Many issues seem to be much better with 1.0.5, but to me the bottom line is the hardware is not reliable, and the 180GB hard disk is only big enough for a trivial amount of HD recording.
Given how cheap storage is these days I never understood why DVR manufacturers are so stingy with it.

[true298]

I'm thinking about giving it a 2nd try...certainly cheaper than buying an HD tivo and paying the monthly fee....

any 8888 errors with 1.5?

[BlackBetty]

I'm thinking about giving it a 2nd try...certainly cheaper than buying an HD tivo and paying the monthly fee....

any 8888 errors with 1.5?

There is supposed to be another update coming in the near future that is going to greatly improve the speed and also add in a new feature. Hopefully comcast can get that update out as soon as possible.

[tstp]

There is supposed to be another update coming in the near future that is going to greatly improve the speed and also add in a new feature. Hopefully comcast can get that update out as soon as possible.

Is there any timeline when comcast will be making available to other parts the the country?
I signed up at comcasts web site to be notified when it will be in my area (englewood,Fl).
I will be so happy when it does come to my area.

tom

[NCARalph]

I've got the update and it certainly works a lot better than the previous versions, but it's really not professional quality software. The system needs to be rebooted about every week and a half to two weeks and the response is slow and uneven enough to be an annoyance. Overall it's cheap and good enough for our use since we don't watch a lot of TV, but can't compare to a real Tivo unit.

[ajwees41]

Many issues seem to be much better with 1.0.5, but to me the bottom line is the hardware is not reliable, and the 180GB hard disk is only big enough for a trivial amount of HD recording. I've ordered a genuine Tivo unit (refurb) from tivo.com with 500GB external drive and will advise on how that goes.

what box are you talking about the motorola's have 120-160GB drives not 180GB.

[lkupersmith]

I've got the update and it certainly works a lot better than the previous versions, but it's really not professional quality software. The system needs to be rebooted about every week and a half to two weeks and the response is slow and uneven enough to be an annoyance. Overall it's cheap and good enough for our use since we don't watch a lot of TV, but can't compare to a real Tivo unit.

How are you figuring it needs to be rebooted every week and a half to two weeks? It was only released two weeks ago. So does that mean you rebooted once?

So far, I've been lucky with 1.05. Not a single problem on either one of my units.

[Naugahide]

what box are you talking about the motorola's have 120-160GB drives not 180GB.Whatever it is, it isn't enough. I bought a HD Plasma TV and HD Cable because I want to see HD, and 20 hours recording time just doesn't cut it for me.

[Naugahide]

How are you figuring it needs to be rebooted every week and a half to two weeks? It was only released two weeks ago. So does that mean you rebooted once?

So far, I've been lucky with 1.05. Not a single problem on either one of my units.1.05 is a big improvement, but as mentioned here and elsewhere, I feel Comcast's hardware reliability is poor, and the amount of HD storage they provide is inadequate for my needs. Also now having the Tivo HD in house, I see how many more features it has, both the documented ones and the undocumented Select-Play-Select features. These might not matter for everyone, but they do matter to me.

[Naugahide]

what box are you talking about the motorola's have 120-160GB drives not 180GB.Just checked it out. The Comcast Moto DVR I have has 120 MB hard drive. Several clicks through Comcast's web site reveals this is up to 15 hours of HD recording Tivo HD (refurb for $179) has 180 GB HD, claim is up to 20 hours of HD recording. Adding 500 GB ($199) adds up to 65 GB of HD recording, total is up to 85 hours recording. I added $39.99 for wireless network connection and ground shippng was $0.00. So far, so good.

[NCARalph]

How are you figuring it needs to be rebooted every week and a half to two weeks? It was only released two weeks ago. So does that mean you rebooted once?

No, I've had to reboot twice.

[lkupersmith]

No, I've had to reboot twice.

Sorry to hear that. One thing to check (with any electronics like this) is that your box has plenty of ventilation above and around it. Excess heat can cause lots of random problems. Otherwise, maybe try another box. I know some are more reliable than others.

I probably wouldn't have put up with all the problems these boxes have had until now, except I really didn't want to give up the option of using On Demand or risk having a genuine TiVo box stop working on some channels if Comcast starts using switched video. Hopefully things keep getting better with the Comcast provided units.

[Naugahide]

Hopefully things keep getting better with the Comcast provided units.I think things are getting better, but I'm not sure what the ultimate goal is.

I think my basic issue is I'm looking for a BMW experience, and from what I can see, Comcast is aiming for a Chevy experience. So far, my experience has been a Hyundai experience, though... :mad:

[NCARalph]

I think my basic issue is I'm looking for a BMW experience, and from what I can see, Comcast is aiming for a Chevy experience. So far, my experience has been a Hyundai experience, though... :mad:Actually, Hyundais aren't bad compared to Chevy, I'd compare it more to a Yugo so far.:rolleyes:

[cheaps]

Hi all,

I tried the earlier version of the Tivo service and had the same horrible 8888 experience as everyone else. But I love the TIVO UI and hate the COMCAST DVR, so I am now wondering if I should try again.

So some questions for you all :

1. Any idea when the next update is supposed to happen (1.06?)

2. One of the big problems for me with the Comcast boxes (standard and with TIVO service) versus a real Tivo box is that they cannot do season passes on sports shows. Or am I being dumb? Is there a fix for that in 1.05 or is this fundamental to the Comcast guide service - in which case should I be looking at a series 3 TIVO. This seems like a mind boggling bad piece of design. In fact the guide service is generally very dumb versus a real TIVO - does a very poor job of not recording repeats that you have already watched.

3. I am reluctant to splurge on a Series 3 TIVO because I understand that CableCard technology is basically a one way technology so does not support On Demand or Pay per View. I understand that Cable Card technology is basically dead anyway and will be replaced by a new technology called True2Way(?) I have no idea how far away that is and whether TIVO will embrace it though. Any thoughts on the best strategy?

I would love to hear what this group's current thinking is.

You would think that it would not be that difficult to get a TIVO box that just works. I think what we all want is the following minimum: Tivo Interface, HD, expandable disk space, On Demand and PPV, Does not crash(!).

Maybe one day!

[NCARalph]

How are you figuring it needs to be rebooted every week and a half to two weeks? It was only released two weeks ago. So does that mean you rebooted once?

So far, I've been lucky with 1.05. Not a single problem on either one of my units.

It froze again last night and had to be power cycled, so it still looks like about 2 weeks or so. The symptoms are no reception, live or recorded, very slow response to remote clicks and error messages after a long wait when trying to play a recorded program. At least it doesn't loose any recorded shows on the disk and it does come back up with a power cycle.

[Naugahide]

2. One of the big problems for me with the Comcast boxes (standard and with TIVO service) versus a real Tivo box is that they cannot do season passes on sports shows. Or am I being dumb? Is there a fix for that in 1.05 or is this fundamental to the Comcast guide service - in which case should I be looking at a series 3 TIVO.


I won't try to dissuade you from trying a Series 3 (hint: tivo.com has refurbed Tivo HDs for $179 with 30 day no questions asked return policy).

I did have one issue with sports and seasons passes when I was using the Comcast TiVo product.

When the UEFA Championships was on (kind of the European Super Bowl for soccer) it would not record a season's pass. For some reason, all episodes showed up with the title "Soccer" and the software didn't realize they were episodes of the same series, so no season pass. I had to go find them all and individually record them. Given how dreadfully slow the pre-1.05 software was when it came to setting up recordings, that was a nightmare.

On the other hand, I had no issues with getting a season pass for "NFL Football" last season.

What was the specific thing you were trying to get a season pass for?


3. I am reluctant to splurge on a Series 3 TIVO because I understand that CableCard technology is basically a one way technology so does not support On Demand or Pay per View. I understand that Cable Card technology is basically dead anyway and will be replaced by a new technology called True2Way(?) I have no idea how far away that is and whether TIVO will embrace it though. Any thoughts on the best strategy?


I did some googling and came up with the following thread on this forum:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=386757

Other interesting articles:

http://www.gizmolovers.com/2008/03/05/tivo-developing-standalone-ocaptru2way-box/

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-08/the-tivo-quarterly-call-no-tru2way-this-year/

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6506184.html

It seems clear to me that TiVo is embracing Tru2Way, and it will be part of the next-gen TiVo "Series 4" DVR, and prototypes of that box are expected to be shown in January 2009.

It's not clear to me if a "Series 4" will be required or not. With my engineering hat on, I can see that Tru2Way is mostly software, and it seems feasible to me that TiVo could come up with a USB dongle to do the hardware aspects, if they should choose to do so. With my business hat on, I can see why TiVo might want to retire Series 3 boxes by the time Series 4 is ready.

Seems by the time all the bugs are worked out and CableLabs approval is done, it'll be late 2009 / early 2010.

Then, we'd have to speculate as to when Comcast would deploy their side of all of this (hint: look at how they're doing with TiVo deployment), and how long it will take the "Series 4" to come down to a reasonable price (usually a year or so after the first box ships).

Clearly the CableCard technology itself won't be shut down when Tru2Way comes out, because Comcast's current boxes all have CableCards in them, and they'll need to support them for a very long time or have to replace every set top box they already have in the field that has a CableCard.

So, it seems to me the current technology won't be surpassed for 2-3 years, and will still be functional for a lot longer than that.


You would think that it would not be that difficult to get a TIVO box that just works. I think what we all want is the following minimum: Tivo Interface, HD, expandable disk space, On Demand and PPV, Does not crash(!).


Personally, I am not a big On Demand / PPV user, so I don't miss not having that much. If I did need it, I'd just get a non-DVR hd box from Comcast and use it to drive the other HDMI input on my TV, and only use it for On Demand / PPV.

I am a big fan of expandable storage, but I don't see how Comcast would roll that out. Seems whatever revenue they'd take in would be spent in doing support calls.

So, I think my strategy of buying a refurbed Series 3 and 500GB storage box from TiVo is pretty solid for the next 3-5 years.

[mtchamp]

I already had a TiVo HD and I've tried the Comcast TiVo twice and had 8888's the first time and the second time, about a month ago, they just couldn't get it working due to down servers and other technical problems with their hardware and systems so I returned it.

Comcast probably needs to get TiVo onto a new box designed for the way Comcast wants to communicate with TiVo. I don't believe the guide data is stored on their box and if you lose communication with Comcast servers, you have problems. They seem to be getting better at it, especially in NH, but for now, I would just buy another TiVo HD like I did.

You can always use another TiVo DVR in the house even if Comcast does get it right before year's end. I think you can get a refurb under $200, see the TiVo HD Forum, and buy Lifetime for $400 or $300 if you are a Lifetime customer already. And I don't miss ONDemand (always the same old stuff my TiVo can record for me) and don't use PPV. I have free TiVoCast programing, Amazon Unbox and now I have tons of fun with YouTube on my TV with the TiVo UI and some very good quality videos about travel and music and all matter of subjects you might be interested in. I was looking up places I hiked in NH last night. Good times revisited from my couch on the big screen.

You can do much more with a TiVo like network TiVos, send video to and from your computer, transfer video to portable devices and retrieve video from the internet, so get a TiVo HD now, you'll get your monies worth, and get a Comcast TiVo later. Go to TiVo.com and see what a TiVoHD can do these days. The features and benefits of owning a real TiVo are increasing by leaps and bounds.

[Naugahide]

Comcast probably needs to get TiVo onto a new box designed for the way Comcast wants to communicate with TiVo. I don't believe the guide data is stored on their box and if you lose communication with Comcast servers, you have problems. They seem to be getting better at it, especially in NH, but for now, I would just buy another TiVo HD like I did.


One thing I learned during all my fun and games with Comcast TiVo is that it has to talk to a server every time you schedule a recording. This kind of amazed me. The way I learned this was I lost two-way communication due to a hardware issue. Almost everything kept working except scheduling new recordings. Also it did start to lose the tv guide data, so I think it has some saved locally but needs to refresh it from the servers.


You can always use another TiVo DVR in the house even if Comcast does get it right before year's end. I think you can get a refurb under $200, see the TiVo HD Forum, and buy Lifetime for $400 or $300 if you are a Lifetime customer already. And I don't miss ONDemand (always the same old stuff my TiVo can record for me) and don't use PPV. I have free TiVoCast programing, Amazon Unbox and now I have tons of fun with YouTube on my TV with the TiVo UI and some very good quality videos about travel and music and all matter of subjects you might be interested in. I was looking up places I hiked in NH last night. Good times revisited from my couch on the big screen.


I just was playing with the YouTube app and it's excellent!

I played a video I shot with my digital camera at a rock concert and was amazed that it looked pretty decent on my widescreen.


You can do much more with a TiVo like network TiVos, send video to and from your computer, transfer video to portable devices and retrieve video from the internet, so get a TiVo HD now, you'll get your monies worth, and get a Comcast TiVo later. Go to TiVo.com and see what a TiVoHD can do these days. The features and benefits of owning a real TiVo are increasing by leaps and bounds.


I'm enjoying using the TiVo to play all my MP3s from my computer through the TiVo to my stereo.

[markjrenna]

Naugahide... Great post. I have a comment regarding this...

Clearly the CableCard technology itself won't be shut down when Tru2Way comes out, because Comcast's current boxes all have CableCards in them, and they'll need to support them for a very long time or have to replace every set top box they already have in the field that has a CableCard.

Comcast hates Cable Cards. Tru2Way will eliminate the need for them. Comcast also hates to be in the hardware (STB) business since they, in essence, losing money on every DVR STB they deploy.

Tru2Way, once the bugs are ironed out, will get deployed to every STB and will find itself preloaded in many manufactures electronic products. Sony and Samsung for example will introduce Tru2way TV's. I would expect third party DVR's to be made available at retail as well.

The advantage of Tru2way allows you, the consumer, to purchase whatever piece of equipment (TV and DVR) that you want. For example; A manufacturer may offer a four tuner, 500 GID HD DVR and it will be pre loaded with Tru2way. Comcast can then update Tru2way as they need via their coax network already in place.

Comcast wins since they accomplish 3 goals. 1. They get out of the hardware business. No more STB's and no more Cable Cards. 2. They stop losing money on STB's. 3. They have less overhead and probably a large reduction on Truck rolls.

The STB's in the field already will get Tru2Way deployed and the Cable Card functionality will be disabled. All of the Encryption will get downloaded to each STB depending on what services you subscribe to. This is know as Downloadable Conditional Access or DCAS.

I would expect to see Tru2Way and DCAS make its big debut for Christmas 2009. It was suppose to be this Christmas but it didn't pan out for Comcast as the hoped due to technical hurdles. They need to rely on Cisco and Motorola to provide the most important part (DCAS) and it may not be in their best interest to do so.

[Naugahide]

Thanks for your insights. I had always heard that the cable operators liked STBs because of the control that it gave them over exactly what services were available to the customer base.

I know it'd even be better if they could keep that control while having the customer buy the hardware to run the software enforcing that control, but it seems we are a few years away from that happening, and the cable operators will have the problem of the installed base, both their own STBs that have CableCards, and customer supplied devices.


Comcast hates Cable Cards. Tru2Way will eliminate the need for them. Comcast also hates to be in the hardware (STB) business since they, in essence, losing money on every DVR STB they deploy.


This begs the question, why do they keep shipping DVRs then? I'd presume they are afraid of ceeding control to TiVo et al, but it's just my guess.


Tru2Way, once the bugs are ironed out, will get deployed to every STB and will find itself preloaded in many manufactures electronic products. Sony and Samsung for example will introduce Tru2way TV's. I would expect third party DVR's to be made available at retail as well.


It's not clear to me that tru2way's security feature (DCAS) is 100% software. I do have some experience in this area, and every solution I know of in this space relies on a tamper-proof way of storing the device's identity and other security credentials, and the only acceptable way of doing this is with custom hardware. Writing this identity to an ordinary flash device isn't usually deemed tamper-proof, unless the thing you are protecting is not of significant value.


The advantage of Tru2way allows you, the consumer, to purchase whatever piece of equipment (TV and DVR) that you want. For example; A manufacturer may offer a four tuner, 500 GID HD DVR and it will be pre loaded with Tru2way. Comcast can then update Tru2way as they need via their coax network already in place.

Comcast wins since they accomplish 3 goals. 1. They get out of the hardware business. No more STB's and no more Cable Cards. 2. They stop losing money on STB's. 3. They have less overhead and probably a large reduction on Truck rolls.


I think this is a great goal for Comcast, and one that would be achievable over time. I just wonder what that time frame is.

One thing the Comcast TiVo rollout shows to me is how much time it takes to deploy a new technology in a cable plant, and how poorly suited (IMHO) the cable plant is for time-critical two-way communication.


The STB's in the field already will get Tru2Way deployed and the Cable Card functionality will be disabled. All of the Encryption will get downloaded to each STB depending on what services you subscribe to. This is know as Downloadable Conditional Access or DCAS.


As above, it's not clear to me if DCAS can or will be a 100% software solution.

Also I'm somewhat pessimistic about rolling out a new generation of software technology to the installed base. From what I've seen after 25 years in the software field, no one wants to do that. Instead they want new software to run on new hardware and have the old solution (both hardware and software) fade away over time. It's just a lot easier to let the old stuff do what it's been doing than to perturb the status quo.

I find it interesting that TiVo is talking of needing a new Series 4 DVR for Tru2Way. On the other hand, googling seems to suggest they will be able to support Tru2Way (previously known as OCAP) on their current boxes. This kind of surprises me, given how underprovisioned the current boxes are (400 MHz CPU, 256M DRAM).


I would expect to see Tru2Way and DCAS make its big debut for Christmas 2009. It was suppose to be this Christmas but it didn't pan out for Comcast as the hoped due to technical hurdles. They need to rely on Cisco and Motorola to provide the most important part (DCAS) and it may not be in their best interest to do so.


This could be optimistic.

Some googling gives us a few articles saying that the first Tru2Way boxes will still rely on CableCard instead of DCAS for security.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=975729

And some are even more pessimistic:

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6580976.html


Tony Wasilewski, chief scientist of subscriber-network systems for Cisco’s service-provider video-technology group, cautioned that the cost savings of DCAS versus CableCARD may be overstated, as adopting a downloadable security approach would result in higher costs across the network.

And even if DCAS were to get done tomorrow, that wouldn’t sound the death knell for CableCARDs. As long as cable operators are providing separable security, they are under no requirement to roll out DCAS.

"We really just don’t know," Wasilewski said. "Even if we have a complete solution productized, it’s not clear that the MSOs would roll it out."


Bottom line to me is that I can see all the flaws of the current situation, but it's clear that change in this industry is very slow, and I'm still feeling fine with my descision to buy a TiVo HD DVR. I think I'll end up keeping it somewhere around five years, and in that time frame, I will have gotten my money's worth out of it.

[BlackBetty]

Naugahide... Great post. I have a comment regarding this...



Comcast hates Cable Cards. Tru2Way will eliminate the need for them. Comcast also hates to be in the hardware (STB) business since they, in essence, losing money on every DVR STB they deploy.

Tru2Way, once the bugs are ironed out, will get deployed to every STB and will find itself preloaded in many manufactures electronic products. Sony and Samsung for example will introduce Tru2way TV's. I would expect third party DVR's to be made available at retail as well.

The advantage of Tru2way allows you, the consumer, to purchase whatever piece of equipment (TV and DVR) that you want. For example; A manufacturer may offer a four tuner, 500 GID HD DVR and it will be pre loaded with Tru2way. Comcast can then update Tru2way as they need via their coax network already in place.

Comcast wins since they accomplish 3 goals. 1. They get out of the hardware business. No more STB's and no more Cable Cards. 2. They stop losing money on STB's. 3. They have less overhead and probably a large reduction on Truck rolls.

The STB's in the field already will get Tru2Way deployed and the Cable Card functionality will be disabled. All of the Encryption will get downloaded to each STB depending on what services you subscribe to. This is know as Downloadable Conditional Access or DCAS.

I would expect to see Tru2Way and DCAS make its big debut for Christmas 2009. It was suppose to be this Christmas but it didn't pan out for Comcast as the hoped due to technical hurdles. They need to rely on Cisco and Motorola to provide the most important part (DCAS) and it may not be in their best interest to do so.

There are so many errors in this post I am not even sure where to start and I don't have an hour to list them all out.

I will say however that cablecards will be needed with tru2way technology. We may see the day when there is a security chip loaded in tru2way electronics that will let the cable companies to allow the box to receive pay stations, but we won't see that for a long time. First generation of Tru2way will be utilizing cablecards.

[cypherstream]

Why don't they put a little power in the next generation of DVR's? I can get a decent dual core cpu/2gb ram barebones from tigerdirect for $199 after rebate. A 500 GB HD is under $100 if you look hard enough.

See what I mean:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4098204&Sku=I69-2152%20B

Hardware's cheap. There's no excuse for 400 MHz cpu's with only 256 MB of memory. That's so 1998.

[Naugahide]

Why don't they put a little power in the next generation of DVR's? I can get a decent dual core cpu/2gb ram barebones from tigerdirect for $199 after rebate. A 500 GB HD is under $100 if you look hard enough.

See what I mean:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4098204&Sku=I69-2152%20B

Hardware's cheap. There's no excuse for 400 MHz cpu's with only 256 MB of memory. That's so 1998.See, you just spent $300 for a cpu and a disk. TiVo HDs are $300 for the entire box.

There is a certain price point that one needs to hit with a set-top box, because the cable operators and/or the consumers just won't buy it if it's too expensive.

The relatively slow CPU is because it is integrated on the same chip with the all the hardware needed to implement the decompression of the two video streams, etc.

OTOH, I don't see why they don't have lots of memory on the box. In my experience, that's what is needed to make these kind of applications run fast.

[cypherstream]

Well wasn't the original Tivo S3 like $800? I could get a whole computer for $499 that has more powerful hardware. Add dual tuners, Cable card slots and licensing from cable labs, I could see it being close to $800 again. Monthly subscription pays for the software development. You don't have to go all out for dual core cpu's. Heck, a 1.8 GHz CPU would trump the 400 MHz Broadcom or whatever is in it now. Plus memory (both disk and RAM) is cheap. Load it with 1GB of RAM and a 500GB SATA HD.

[markjrenna]

There are so many errors in this post I am not even sure where to start and I don't have an hour to list them all out.

What I wrote is what Cox, TW, and Comcast envision. What will most likely happen is most certainly different then what is planned.

Please take the time to come off your high horse and point out all of the errors in my post so that none of us intentionally mislead anyone.

[Naugahide]

Well wasn't the original Tivo S3 like $800?Yes, but as usual I presume they were gauging the early adopters to get back their R&D investment. I suspect the current $299 price is much closer to their cost, and they are now doing as you say and living off the monthly service fees. I kind of doubt they would be selling units at a loss, but who knows?

[lkupersmith]

Oh well, more problems. I found both of my boxes tuned to channel 10 (the lowest number in my guide) last night and the blank screen problem was there. Changing channels restored the picture, but both boxes had a phantom record light indicator for the second tuner, which was not recording on either box. Time to reboot again.