got a 3rd box, no way to activate without 1 yr agreement?

[cdf12345]

I've had 2 tivos for around 5 years, 1 on lifetime 1 on monthly ($6.95) grandfathered in.

I just picked up a 3rd series 2 tivo. It's used and from a friend that didnt use it. I dont know if he ever activated it or not.

I went to the website to activated it on my Multi service discount.

I saw that it's not $9.95 a month. And in the legalize it said I was responsable for a 1 year agreement! With a hefty cancellation fee. I called tivo and asked about this and the rep said he can only activate boxes under a 1 year agreement.

wow this totally sucks, this unit was completely paid for by by friend at full cost, and now tivo wants to charge me $155 if i cancel before 1 year.

Here is the text

I have read and accepted the terms and conditions of the TiVo Service Agreement and the terms of the Payment Plan selected above. An early termination fee of up to $155.40 applies to monthly Payment Plans canceled prior to the end of their commitment and no refunds for pre-paid Payment Plans canceled more than 30 days after service activation. Thirty (30) day money back guarantee applies. If activating with a TiVo gift subscription, see additional terms and conditions for your gift subscription..


Talk about BS. Has anyone been able to add a box to an existing account and not had to agree to this crap? I told the guy on the phone there's no way I'm activating it for 1 year with cancelation fees.

You can either have my $9.95 a month as long as I decide to remain a customer or you can have $0.00 he said a contact was manditory.

It's amazing to me that a company would rather not get any revenue then only accept customers agreeing to 1 year of service, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE NOT SUBDIZING THE COST OF THE BOX.

No wonder tivo is going down the drains. I guess it's time to swich to Myth boxes.

This is tivo's last chance with me, has any got tips to activate without the cancellation clause?

Thanks,

Chris.

[rocko]

Sure - you can prepay a year for $99 (MSD) with no cancellation fee. It works out to $8.25/mo.

[classicsat]

There is no way to go on a new monthly plan with no commitment. It has been that way for nearly three years, regardless of the ownership status of the box. They likely have no way, or care to track whether or not a box has been fulfilled, plus do not want people subscribing for a few months and canceling, as there is probably some administrative cost to short term subscriptions.

[RonDawg]

TiVo is not alone in this business practice. Ever try to buy a cell phone (other than a prepaid one) and NOT be made to sign a contract?

[David_NC]

It's used and from a friend that didnt use it. I dont know if he ever activated it or not.



Probably not a definitive way to tell, but does the account status show as "New", "Account Closed", or "Never Set Up"?


If its never been activated, I can understand the required commitment, but it seems a previously activated unit should at least have a much smaller commitment, or none at all, especially for someone that already has an account.

[bicker]

Previous activation doesn't guarantee that the subsidy for the box itself has been satisfied. A one-year service commitment evidently does.

[Crrink]

TiVo is not alone in this business practice. Ever try to buy a cell phone (other than a prepaid one) and NOT be made to sign a contract?

Sure, if you buy one from a friend, or off of eBay you can activate it without signing a contract with an early termination fee.

[bicker]

Try to record HD on your cellphone, and play back on your HDTV... it doesn't work very well. :)

[RoyK]

Try to call your grandma on your TiVo.

[David_NC]

Try to record HD on your cellphone, and play back on your HDTV... it doesn't work very well. :)

Be patient - they need to make their money off the current cellphone features before adding those. :D

[scandia101]

Sure, if you buy one from a friend, or off of eBay you can activate it without signing a contract with an early termination fee.

Uhmm, no. You can't do that. Every new subscription since 9/05 requires a 12 month minimum commitment.
If you bought a S1 on the day they were first available in 1998 and started paying a monthly subscription and kept that tivo and subscription until 5/08, you'd have paid close to $2500 for a Tivo and it's service. If you now wanted to resubscribe it, you'd have to commit to a year.

[Crrink]

Uhmm, no. You can't do that. Every new subscription since 9/05 requires a 12 month minimum commitment.
If you bought a S1 on the day they were first available in 1998 and started paying a monthly subscription and kept that tivo and subscription until 5/08, you'd have paid close to $2500 for a Tivo and it's service. If you now wanted to resubscribe it, you'd have to commit to a year.

Uhmm, The comment I was responding to was in regards to cell phones, not TiVos.

TiVo having a policy that is more customer unfriendly than any cell phone company reflects very poorly on them, IMO.

[bicker]

Verizon Wireless -- extremely profitable
AT&T Wireless -- extremely profitable
etc.

TiVo -- not profitable

Seems very weird to expect unprofitable video service providers like TiVo to put forward more consumer-friendly pricing than extremely profitable cellphone service providers.

[RoyK]

Verizon Wireless -- extremely profitable
AT&T Wireless -- extremely profitable
etc.

TiVo -- not profitable

Seems very weird to expect unprofitable video service providers like TiVo to put forward more consumer-friendly pricing than extremely profitable cellphone service providers.

Not that consumer-friendly pricing might just possibly have something to do with the cellphone service providers' profitable status or anything.....

[bicker]

Indeed, their consumer-unfriendly pricing surely contributes to their profitability. Consumer-friendly pricing, as you would consider it so, doesn't seem to help any company.

[Crrink]

Verizon Wireless -- extremely profitable
AT&T Wireless -- extremely profitable
etc.

TiVo -- not profitable

Seems very weird to expect unprofitable video service providers like TiVo to put forward more consumer-friendly pricing than extremely profitable cellphone service providers.

I'm not arguing that TiVo should or could adopt the cell phone model of pricing and customer service.
The original post I referred to implied that used cellphones cannot be bought and used without committing to a contract.
That is not the case.

I could waste time finding other companies with better consumer policies to refute your argument (i.e. WalMart - insanely profitable, yet also the easiest department store in the world to return merchandise to), but there would be little point.

TiVo's position that subsidized units must be on contract in order for them to recoup their costs is fine, in my opinion.
TiVo's excuse that it's simply too difficult or complicated to figure out which units are no longer operating under subsidy pricing is nonsense. Consumer unfriendly nonsense, and it reflects poorly on the company, again, in my opinion.

[bicker]

They don't really need to explain anything, really. Indeed, expecting an explanation that you consider satisfying is a bit silly AFAIC.

[Crrink]

They don't really need to explain anything, really. Indeed, expecting an explanation that you consider satisfying is a bit silly AFAIC.

Oh, zing, you got me again.
Kudos, bicker, kudos.
:rolleyes:

In the unlikely event that you're curious, I agree they don't NEED to explain anything. Still, they have chosen to do so, and I find some parts of their explanation unsatisfying. The blame for that may rest with me, and I suppose I wouldn't be the best judge of that, however, you'll have to forgive me if I am unwilling to allow your judgment to take the place of mine when it comes to assessing TiVo's customer service policies.

In order to satisfy me one need only be logical and consistent.
It is logical for TiVo to say that they must be given a chance to recoup costs on subsidized hardware.
It is not logical to believe that they cannot undertake the task of tracking which units have paid their subsidy and which have not. Every TiVo has a unique TSN, and we all know that TiVo can track them expertly for billing purposes. Flagging a unit once the subsidy is paid off is very likely not a difficult process - if it is, I hope someone will explain to me why it is. Until then I will assume that TiVo has chosen a less than friendly, in my opinion, manner in which to deal with its customers.

I am happy that you have no such qualms about their choice, as I'm sure they are. It's unfortunate that you can't sympathize with people like the OP who find TiVo's reasoning less than satisfying.

[bicker]

There is enough fostering of unreasonable expectations out there. It surely doesn't foster satisfaction on the part of folks like the OP. Rather, sticking closely to actual reality is the best recipe for fostering satisfaction on the part of members here.

[ZeoTiVo]

simply put
TiVo is not interetsed in someone who does not want to sub the DVR for at least a year. TiVo has made the business determination that subs not ready to commit to a year are not worth the book-keeping*, I do not think the at least a year contract in general has anything to do with subsdizing a box, except for specific bundle deals which are getting rarer anyhow. Nothing personal as it is purely a business decision.


*There was a sub group of subscribers that would sub only during the "TV season" then unsub again for some months to save a few bucks. I think there were also people subbing units only for the summer at second homes, etc..

[cdf12345]

OP here,
A couple of notes I'd like to make,

I dont think that a 1 yr contract is a bad thing....FOR NEW CUSTOMERS.

However, I am trying to add this as a 3rd box, I'm offering them $9.99 a month, that's basically free money, there's no way that any administrative costs would be more than $10.

Secondly, the analogy of cell phones does not hold. If I show up with a phone that works on any companies network that I already own, they will absolutely sign me up without a contract, since they never subsidized my phone.

Third, I already have 2 boxes, and Tivo is in serious jeopardy of losing the other two now due to this stupid policy.

2 choices tivo, accept another $9.99 a month from me, or lose 2 subscriptions. Your choice, dont be an idiot.

[classicsat]

It is not about new customers, it is about new activations, new customer or not, on a fulfilled box or not.

You should be able to add it for $9.95/month, but you will have to commit for a year.

Regardless of why, it is a simple fact their policy is to commit one year for new activation of any TiVo DVR. It does no good to argue here, if you want actual change.
Take it up with TiVo corporate if you have to.

[RonDawg]

Your choice, dont be an idiot.

Personally I don't think what you're threatening to do is any smarter.

You seem to like TiVo's service, or this thread is totally moot.

You don't seem to have an issue with the $9.95/month cost, just the fact that you have to commit to it for a whole year. And it's not like you don't know what you're getting, as you already have two other TiVo's.

You'll likely keep the TiVo for at least that year anyway, and should you decide to upgrade to a nicer box (or the one you get breaks) you can transfer the subscription to the new box.

All this drama because you don't want to commit for a year when you'll likely be fulfilling the contract and more. Despite the fact that you have 30 days to change your mind. Despite the fact that it also locks TiVo into honoring that price for a year. Not something to take lightly in today's economy, where inflation is likely to be the highest it's been in a long time.

So is TiVo being the idiot here?

Oh and BTW, if you read the "legalese" and not the "legalize", you'll realize that the Early Termination Fee is "up to $155.40." Which means it can be less, and in your case it is because $9.95 * 12 months = $119.40. That's because further in the "legalese" it says the Early Termination Fee is the lesser of the remainder of your contract, or $155.40.

[ZeoTiVo]

However, I am trying to add this as a 3rd box, I'm offering them $9.99 a month, that's basically free money, there's no way that any administrative costs would be more than $10.
the cost they are trying to avoid is people that would stop sub in 4 months and then sub again in 3 months and then stop in 4 months, etc..

It is not about the first initial cost but the cost TiVo incurs from such stopping and starting. The one year contract simply and easily addresses that problem.

Since you seem ready to use the TiVo for more than a year I am really not seeing what the problem is here.

[cdf12345]

I have my reasons for not wanting to commit to 1 year, it's summer, and with school starting and other variables, I'm not sure I'm going to need a 3rd box past say December. If tivo would rather throw away around $40-60 in fees, and the potential for much longer, fine.

I have started just abandoning companies that are not customer friendly, have bad terms and no customer care, no matter how much I like the service.

Tivo has been slipping, for several years now. If they keep this up they will be out of business soon. There are many alternatives and while many are not up to par to a tivo, I refuse to be treated like this by a company I'm voluntarily paying every month.

Tivo is now the classic case of a product being awesome, and the service being horrible. They've slowly removed anything worthwile to the consumer over the last few years.

1.) increased fees
2.) removed lifetime subs
3.) required contracts
4.) require contracts for current subscribers trying to increase their service level.

I'm sorry but the last one really gets my goat. Have you ever seen the customer acquisition costs companies have? It's pretty high, so you'd think they'd jump on any chance to get more revenue especially since it's literally going to cost them a fraction of that first month's fee.

I'm just disappointed all around. And I'm really surprised there are so many Tivo apologists here defending their unbelievably stupid policies.

Aug 2004-July 2008 , two tivo home.
July 2008 - Zero tivo home.

[cdf12345]

the cost they are trying to avoid is people that would stop sub in 4 months and then sub again in 3 months and then stop in 4 months, etc..

It is not about the first initial cost but the cost TiVo incurs from such stopping and starting. The one year contract simply and easily addresses that problem.

Since you seem ready to use the TiVo for more than a year I am really not seeing what the problem is here.

What exactly are these costs? I'm quite curious.
I'm not using a phone line. I already have an account on file, so they're already storing my data. What additional costs are there? Especially if I activate it online myself?

[ZeoTiVo]

What exactly are these costs? I'm quite curious.
I'm not using a phone line. I already have an account on file, so they're already storing my data. What additional costs are there? Especially if I activate it online myself?

agian, it is not the initial activation but booking that subscription in their accounts receivable and then having to unbook the expected accounts receivable or else deal with it each month on a a month to month basis.

With the year contract they book it once, can book it for the full year on their ledger and know it is a firm account receivable for the full year, one way or the other.

Indeed you are exactly the "ah sub it for a few months during the Olympics or whatever and then cancel since I have two others" they sought to prevent.

No apologies, just the way business works.

PS - TiVo does still offer lifetime, and at the same 299$ for existing customers they have charged for quite a while.

[kb7oeb]

Its worth noting you are only committing to service, not specifically to that box. So if you decide you would rather have a TivoHD in six months you just transfer service.

You know you want at least 6 months anyway so you are already in $60, buy the $99 1-year plan and you risk at most $40 and might come out ahead $20.

I don't care for the commitment either but the terms are better than they used to be.

[rocko]

PS - TiVo does still offer lifetime, and at the same 299$ for existing customers they have charged for quite a while.

Now that's funny :D

The guy can't commit to one year, much less a lifetime. Mheh heh heh.

[bicker]

If tivo would rather throw away around $40-60 in fees, and the potential for much longer, fine.(40 x +[$40-to-$60]) + (5 x -[$40-to-$60]) > 0

I'm just disappointed all around.The point is that that is because you hold unreasonable expectations.

And I'm really surprised there are so many Tivo apologists here defending their unbelievably stupid policies.I criticize TiVo with valid criticisms. Just yesterday I let TiVoStephen know what I though of their casual dismissal of the needs of disabled folks like my wife. No apologist here, yet I still think your concern is without merit. Sorry.

[RonDawg]

I have started just abandoning companies that are not customer friendly, have bad terms and no customer care, no matter how much I like the service.

Then pretty soon you'll be living in a one room cabin in rural Montana. Unfortunately TiVo is not alone, and actually is better than most.

Tivo has been slipping, for several years now. If they keep this up they will be out of business soon.

We've heard that for years.

1.) increased fees

But on two of your boxes you're still paying $6.95. Which you will give up and pay more if (and most likely, when) you come back, because cableco DVR's do suck that badly. And are more expensive too; Charter not too long ago raised the price of their crappy SA8300HD from $12/month to $15/month. But no contract :rolleyes:

2.) removed lifetime subs

And brought back.

3.) required contracts

Always been that way AFAIK.

[Crrink]

(40 x +[$40-to-$60]) + (5 x -[$40-to-$60]) > 0

The point is that that is because you hold unreasonable expectations.

I criticize TiVo with valid criticisms. Just yesterday I let TiVoStephen know what I though of their casual dismissal of the needs of disabled folks like my wife. No apologist here, yet I still think your concern is without merit. Sorry.

You clearly have unreasonable expectations of how much TiVo should be concerned about the needs of disabled folks.

See how annoying such styles of argument are?

[bicker]

The difference is that my assertion was correct and yours was incorrect. The expectations of how much companies should be concerned about the needs of disabled folks is established in the law; all that remains is an interpretation of how far the law requires them to go. Your expectations of how much they should be concerned about giving you want you personally want stem strictly from your own desire; there are no relevant laws that come even close to requiring what you want.

Annoying or otherwise.

[Crrink]

Well, there is the law of supply and demand.
If enough of TiVo's customers become unhappy with its policies - whether you judge us rational or not, TiVo will cease to exist as a company.

I'll grant you that unhappiness with the 1 year minimum service contract is unlikely to result in TiVo's demise, but then, trying to use the ADA to get a DVR company to do something it doesn't want to do probably isn't going to work either.

We should both probably stick to enjoying what we can out of our TiVo's and hoping and politely suggesting that TiVo be more accommodating to us in the future.

[bicker]

Well, there is the law of supply and demand.
If enough of TiVo's customers become...That's a big "if". Saying "if" doesn't immediately provide credence to any points you try to make based on such an assertion -- that was the point I've been making.

As it is, TiVo is still the best at what it does -- still provides the very best DVR available for purchase in the United States today. No one sells more stand-alone DVR subscriptions than TiVo, so your "if" really doesn't hold water.

"If" any other company starts selling stand-alone DVRs with better subscription terms, or without a subscription, "then" we can compare that DVR's features to TiVos and begin considering the possibility of some of the ramifications you've alluded to in your messages. As it is, it even appears, now, that Swing has either delayed or perhaps even scuttled their plans for a competitor.

unhappy with its policies - whether you judge us rational or not, TiVo will cease to exist as a company.Perhaps. It seems clear to some of us that TiVo doesn't live or die based on its current customer-base. They're unprofitable, almost every quarter, and for so long, so clearly they're aiming at some other objective.

I'll grant you that unhappiness with the 1 year minimum service contract is unlikely to result in TiVo's demise, but then, trying to use the ADA to get a DVR company to do something it doesn't want to do probably isn't going to work either.Don't underestimate the power of millions of angry deaf people. :p