30 Days - "Animal Rights" (6/17)

[Marc]

This one finally felt true to form for "30 Days" episodes, where someone with a contrary opinion is subjected to the other side's life for the "30 days" and comes out with some sort of transformation, or at least having learned something from the experience.

I wasn't really convinced, though, that he really changed his mind all that much. I guess I was just expecting it too much so that when it happened, I figured it was more of a result of producers coaching him how to react and what answers to give. The second half of the episode seemed too staged and less genuine. Perhaps I'm just being cynical.

With some of the follow-up episodes of Intervention (http://www.aetv.com/intervention/) giving a look at how people have changed over a longer term, I'd like to see something like that looking at people who had these "30 Days" experiences and whether any real changes resulted. I fear that there wouldn't be anything positive to report.

I'm looking forward to next week's episode on "Same-Sex Parenting". With the recent action in California, it's rather timely. I'm also very partial to that particular topic. Of course, knowing how this show goes, I already know what the outcome will be, but it'll still be interesting to see someone have the opportunity to learn about something that they wouldn't necessarily have been exposed to otherwise.

[coolpenguin]

I haven't seen this one yet, but I"m looking forward to it. Some are hit or miss for me...the former football player in the wheelchair was "eh" for me, but the coal mining one was interesting.

[spikedavis]

I don't even think I can watch this episode. I'm very sensitive to animal cruelty and I don't think I can deal with it.

[robpickles]

It was very hard to watch for my wife.

I also had a problem watching the dogs being put to sleep section.

Rob :)

[NatasNJ]

The dog section was done in a way where you KNEW it was going to happen but they didn't show it.

The cow stuff was sad. Really sad but I also agree I felt the rescue at the end seemed staged.

There are surely scenes that will upset you. The way the handlers moved the baby cows was appalling. The conditions are sad enough but when humans are inhumane it is just upsetting.

Then again I think PETA people are total idiots. The whole Sanders slaughter by a chicken thing just makes them look like total whack jobs. I realize they do it to garner attention but I have to think there is better ways than that demostration or yelling into bullhorns and annoying people.

[Warren]

i watched this while eating chicken. hmm

[Enrique]

i watched this while eating chicken. hmmI ate a burger :). As long Animals are killed in a sanitary way then I don't care how there treated. and as far as "Animal Rights" go... No I don't think Animals should have rights(excluding the Human Animal), they are there to be eaten or be pets(or both) that is it as for as I'm concerned.

[Enrique]

I wasn't really convinced, though, that he really changed his mind all that much.I don't think the subjects of 30 days are there to change there beliefs but to see the "other side" of things and if they change there minds along the way great, if not then at least they got to see "other side" of things.

[Marc]

That's the goal of the show, though. The whole premise of "30 Days" is to put someone into a position where they're already prejudiced and give them an opportunity to remove their ignorance. What this is supposed to show is that prejudice is born out of ignorance, and if we spend time "in the shoes" of the other side, our opinion will naturally change from the new-found understanding.

[NatasNJ]

I agree animals don't have rights. But we as humans have the "right" to treat other living beings (even ones we plan to eat) in a humane way. It is fine to want to see animals for food but to think it is ok to beat/torture or abuse them is just uncalled for on so many levels.

[firerose818]

Then again I think PETA people are total idiots. The whole Sanders slaughter by a chicken thing just makes them look like total whack jobs. I realize they do it to garner attention but I have to think there is better ways than that demostration or yelling into bullhorns and annoying people.

Amen. I also couldn't believe the gall of the sanctuary owner to compare slaughtered chickens to the Nazi treatment of Jews in WWII. I think I was yelling at this woman through the TV.

That said, I think that animals (even livestock) deserve to be treated humanely. But rights for animals? No way. I love my dog, but he is after all, a dog!

I also found it odd that the PETA family said that they were against having animals for "entertainment" purposes, but had a house full of dogs. Isn't entertainment the primary reason for having a pet? :confused:

[NatasNJ]

I also found it odd that the PETA family said that they were against having animals for "entertainment" purposes, but had a house full of dogs. Isn't entertainment the primary reason for having a pet? :confused:

I thiink a house pet is more for companionship. And they were against circus animals and such. Some pet entertainment I am sure is great (frisbee dogs, etc...) But they are probably against the ones where the animals are treated like crap. Which is probably common in circus and sideshows, etc...

[harrinpj]

I thiink a house pet is more for companionship. And they were against circus animals and such. Some pet entertainment I am sure is great (frisbee dogs, etc...) But they are probably against the ones where the animals are treated like crap. Which is probably common in circus and sideshows, etc...

I also thought it was hypocritical of PETA to say that they want all animals to live a natural life without us manipulating them but when it comes to neutering your pet, they are all for it. I'm not saying I'm against neutering. All 4 of my pets are spayed or neutered. I just thought that was a little hypocritical.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if they think animals should have the same rights as humans, wouldn't you think spaying and neutering would be out of the question? If you did that to certain people that you didn't think should breed, you'd have quite a riot on your hands.

[flatcurve]

I haven't watched the whole show yet, but I saw maybe the first 30 minutes...

As a vegetarian, I have to say that PETA annoys the hell out of me. I'm not a veg because of the ethics of killing animals. Whatever... animals eat other animals. It happens. It's life, get over it... I'm a vegetarian because of the environmental, health and safety impact of the meat industry. I was a little upset that they didn't at least include that aspect in the debate at all... (if it popped up later in the show, I apologize in advance) The amount of resources consumed just to get a steak to the table is out of control.

And I also have no problem with hunting. Most hunters I know (and I know a few) aren't sadistic blood thirsty savages. They actually respect the animals they kill, and use as much of it as possible. Bag a couple of deer in the season, put it in the deep freeze, and you've got enough meat to last you a while. Plus, the animal lives it's life naturally up until the point that it's killed. It's more analogous to what goes on in nature than the assembly line meat industry we have now.

[sieglinde]

Dogs don't have natural lives. Dogs evolved alongside human beings and at a very young age, puppies recognize human gestures. Now taking wild animals as pets is not too cool.

PETA ugh. Comparing animals to human beings being slaughtered is just wrong. I believe we should be kind to animals but I also eat meat. Give me a break.

[nataylor]

The PETA thing bugs me, too. At some point, they must consider life "expendable," like the rest of us. Does it start at insects? Will they kill bugs? Will they kill microscopic things? Heck, the very act of existing means they're killing microscopic things all the time. Are they only concerned about vertebrates? I'm just wondering at what point it's OK to kill things for them. They eat vegetables, so they must be OK will killing some living things.

[newsposter]

i wont be taking a dog with me anywhere that woman goes if she's gonna save him before me!

So we got the part about the killing of the dog and my wife turned it off...i wont watch that but will watch the rest later. So did they tell us how the PETA people would keep the deer/rabbit etc population down here in PA and other states? Of course by their rationale the fact that deer jump out in front of cars and cause injury death means we should save the deer and not the people in the accidents..but that's beside my point.

And while im no expert on animal reproduction, what do they expect to do with the ever increasing population of every animal?

and WHY not just fight to get more humane treatment rather than just ban cow eating altogether? Seems like it would be easier to get laws and practices changed for the farmers etc rather than get a whole society off meat???

[Warren]

And while im no expert on animal reproduction, what do they expect to do with the ever increasing population of every animal?



my 6th grade Texas History Teacher was a hunter and he told use that in one county they had reduced the number of deer allowed to be taken in that area. he said that the next year they found lots of dead deer that staved to death. Like it or not hunting will keep them from starving to death. I can see that the rabbit population wouldn't explode the way that deer would cause rabbits are smaller and they can be hunted by large birds, bobcats (or other bobcat sized cats) and dogs. What will kill deer? sure a few cats might get one or two but not enough

[pdhenry]

So we got the part about the killing of the dog and my wife turned it off...i wont watch that but will watch the rest later.I don't consider this a spoiler, but they really don't show anything. Just the living dog and then the next shot is a (nearly) opaque plastic bag in the corner of the cooler.

[sieglinde]

You get rid of the preditors because they are eating your livestock then the rabbits, deer etc. get out of control. Who do ya call, the hunters!!!

I consider myself an environmentalist but some animal protection laws have actually caused nature to get out of balance. Coyotes are in all the lower 48 and Washington DC. Coyotes in Iowa? Really? yep. Part of that is due to human kind providing food for coyotes coast to coast. Now I like coyotes, if they all went away, we would be hip deep in cottontail rabbits and the hare know as the Jack Rabbit. So don't get me wrong about coyotes, but we need them culled. I could not believe it when my cousin in Iowa was talking about coyotes bothering the livestock.

PETA types don't realize that the balance of nature is already changed and for good.

Livestock can be treated humanly. The swine my cousins raise are would almost qualify for organic and the meat tasted like heaven. There are actually good reasons to treat livestock and poultry humanly. It tastes better and the meat is better for you.

[Tivortex]

Do animals have rights ? I don't know, but I do know this show was total garbage. 100% PETA propaganda. So bad I don't even know where to start. The whole premise, that people who eat, hunt or produce meat, are evil or misguided at best, is pure bunk. But we, I count myself as all three of the above, are cast as the baaaad people, in disparate need of corrective education by a group of enlightened and pure hearted saintly angels. (Where is the icon of a smiley throwing up?)

First, the outright lies. Dead and dying animals are NOT turned into humans food. Ever. That is so disgusting, that if it were true, even I would stop eating meat. But it's not true. It doesn't happen that way. At least it never did in the 30 years or so I lived and worked on the farm/ranch/feedlot. Sick animals are treated and dead animals are disposed of. They slipped that little chestnut in under the radar at least twice. It's false.

Next. Where were the opposing viewpoints? There weren't any. Not a one. Did we hear from any dairy owner/operator? Any farmer or rancher get to put in their 2 cents worth? Nope. That would have only contradicted the views that were heavy handedly jammed down the viewers throat. It always amazes me that people will believe that farmers and ranchers are unnecessarily cruel with their animals. Tell me why they would be mean to them? Bottom line is that to do so would harm their profits in increased animal stress and disease, which leads to reduction in the market value of the animal. It's insane to suggest that animal cruelty is somehow profitable. It simply doesn't make sense.

I can't even believe they tried to pass off the little episode that happened in the dark, where you are asked to believe that they "rescued" a calf. Yeah, right. Sure was convenient that you couldn't see a blessed thing because of the dark. Had it been a true event you can be sure they would have had their night video gear in operation to show us all the evil details. Instead we get some shuffling noises and low and behold, they produce an "abused" animal! Where I grew up that would have been known as livestock theft if it went down as shown. But I strongly suspect that the whole thing was staged in order to provide the heart tugging scenes to follow. How did they manage to even find the animal in the middle of the pitch black night? A tipster called them?!? Does anybody actually believe that?

I love animals as much as the next person but the so called facts as presented by this PETA loving Spurlock guy are as far from the truth as anything I've ever watched on TV. Total PETA garbage, and just what I've come to expect from this sorry excuse of a television program.

Penn and Teller did an episode about PETA a while ago. I suggest watching it for a little balance. See how PETA itself kills the animals it claims to want to defend in order to further it's cause at any cost. Check out their links to other more radical Eco terrorists. Google the facts about it's mentally ill founder.

Anyway thanks for reading if you got this far. As you can tell I'm pretty fed up with PETA and those unwitting souls who push their particular brand of insanity onto the rest of us.

[MasterOfPuppets]

PETA is all about parroting their propaganda, preferably without a whole lot of thought beyond that, other than trying to make other people feel guilty.
Like the hunter guy pointed out early in the episode, it's a lot of whining without any real solutions.

The overwhelming majority of hunters aren't out there being cruel to animals, making them suffer before the kill.
How come PETA never heads out to the farms that are treating their animals well and treating them humanely?

I thought it was a good episode.
The lady who's main line of propaganda was saying that killing chickens is like killing Jews in WWII, and that she'd save a dog before a person was a complete idiot, but hey.

I don't think that the show was pushing PETA's agenda.

[justapixel]

I love the show 30 Days but I really do wish they hadn't chosen this particular topic. The PETA people are more than whack jobs - their philosophy isn't about treating animals humanely - it's about believing animals should have equal stature as humans. They mentioned the holocaust so much because they honestly believe that chickens and humans are the same, and people killing chickens for food IS the same as the holocaust. That is in all of PETA's literature, on their website, etc. This is normal thought process for them, not one wacky woman's idea.

I'm all for treating animals humanely. I try to buy my meat from small farms where the animals have a normal life before being slaughtered. It costs me more but it's worth it. But, we are living in a food chain and I'm a carnivore and intend to stay that way.

Showing PETA as a reasonable group that somebody needed to be brought around to understand their ideas was wrong, IMO. It normalizes an extremest group.

Next week's show should be better. :)

[Warren]

Well Morgans wife is a vegan :)

[newsposter]

I don't consider this a spoiler, but they really don't show anything. Just the living dog and then the next shot is a (nearly) opaque plastic bag in the corner of the cooler.

i guess i shoulda been clear...didnt wanna know any details what happened

trying to erase your words from my mind now

[newsposter]

First, the outright lies. Dead and dying animals are NOT turned into humans food. Ever. That is so disgusting, that if it were true, even I would stop eating meat. But it's not true. It doesn't happen that way. At least it never did in the 30 years or so I lived and worked on the farm/ranch/feedlot. Sick animals are treated and dead animals are disposed of. They slipped that little chestnut in under the radar at least twice. It's false.



i guess this show doesnt have to be factually correct eh? I'd have to think any dead animals fed to us would cause some pretty bad consequences which couldnt be hidden

[justapixel]

i guess i shoulda been clear...didnt wanna know any details what happened

trying to erase your words from my mind now

What, you didn't know animal shelters put dogs to sleep?

We don't even know that the dog they showed in the scene WAS put to sleep. They showed him and then they showed a piece of plastic, with something inside it.

There was nothing surprising or scary in that scene and I'm a major animal lover. Considering all the other lies told in that episode, I'd be really surprised if that dog was even the one they put down.

[anom]

First, the outright lies. Dead and dying animals are NOT turned into humans food. Ever. That is so disgusting, that if it were true, even I would stop eating meat. But it's not true. It doesn't happen that way. At least it never did in the 30 years or so I lived and worked on the farm/ranch/feedlot. Sick animals are treated and dead animals are disposed of. They slipped that little chestnut in under the radar at least twice. It's false.
It shouldn't happen. Maybe at the better facilities it doesn't. But the factory farms/slaughterhouses are so poorly regulated that it does happen sometimes. There are videos out there if you're interested.

And "treating" sick animals consists of pumping them full of enough antibiotics to keep them alive long enough to get big enough to be worth slaughtering.

[Tivortex]

And "treating" sick animals consists of pumping them full of enough antibiotics to keep them alive long enough to get big enough to be worth slaughtering.

How does this differ from how your doctor would treat you? Antibiotic 'script and send you home. Being taken to slaughter, in case you missed it, is the point.

Not really interested in more fake propaganda videos. As I mentioned, I was a livestock producer for many years. Your experience in animal husbandry would be exactly what? Nothing? Yeah, I thought so.

[Warren]

I used to raise Pigs for FFA. :) I named it. It didn't sell at auction. I ate it :)

[anom]

How does this differ from how your doctor would treat you? Antibiotic 'script and send you home. Being taken to slaughter, in case you missed it, is the point.

Not really interested in more fake propaganda videos. As I mentioned, I was a livestock producer for many years. Your experience in animal husbandry would be exactly what? Nothing? Yeah, I thought so.
Admittedly, all I've done is read books on the subject. Fast Food Nation, The Omnivore's Dilemma.

Your experience with reading a book would be exactly what? Nothing? Yeah, I thought so.

[kewpie]

When I was watching, I thought they were implying that the dead animals were ground up and used as animal feed and in that way were making it back into our food, NOT that they were taking the dead animals and butchering and selling them as people food.

I'll have to go back and watch that part again.

[justapixel]

When I was watching, I thought they were implying that the dead animals were ground up and used as animal feed and in that way were making it back into our food, NOT that they were taking the dead animals and butchering and selling them as people food.

I'll have to go back and watch that part again.

I'm pretty sure the implication was it was used for people. But, I deleted it so can't check.

[justapixel]

Admittedly, all I've done is read books on the subject. Fast Food Nation, The Omnivore's Dilemma.

Your experience with reading a book would be exactly what? Nothing? Yeah, I thought so.

So, reading animal rights propoganda means you are better informed than the average person?

I think not.

I had the unfortunate experience of having to fight these nuts when they wanted to open a school in my district. I learned a lot about them and what they try to do. I suggest you read the other side of the story if you want to be fully informed.

You might start here: http://www.activistcash.com/

Follow the money trail, it always leads you to the truth.

[nataylor]

Despite the fact I don't agree with PETA, I still enjoyed this episode. I didn't feel like their beliefs were pushed down my throat. I think Morgan does a good job of just presenting a group or position, letting them explain their beliefs, and just taking us through the ride of the person experiencing it all.

[anom]

So, reading animal rights propoganda means you are better informed than the average person?

Neither of these books have anything to do with animal rights.

They're about the American food industry, which has taken efficiency to perverse, unhealthy extremes. Did you watch the episode? This is exactly where the hunter and the animal rights people found common ground. The hunter didn't embrace veganism or the idea that animals have any rights at all. But he did begin to see how seriously damaged our factory farms and meat production are.

[kewpie]

I'm pretty sure the implication was it was used for people. But, I deleted it so can't check.

I just went back and watched it again. The guy says that the dead animals are taken to the rendering plant. He doesn't specifically say that they end up as animal feed, but the next thing he says is something like, "If you eat beef, pork, whatever, then you're kind of eating a by-product of that dead animal". I interpret that as meaning you're not eating that dead animal directly... but that could just be wishful thinking since I love me a cheeseburger. :)

[pmyers]

I don't believe that 30 Days does try to present both viewpoints or give them equal time. They really just try to focus on the viewpoint that will change the person's mind.

In that regard, I kind of wish they could trade places for a bit.

[NatasNJ]

I think the hunter came out of the (at times circus) experience with the right attitude. Treating animals in a abusive manner is wrong and should be stopped. We as people should do our best to avoid animal abuse and unecessary animal deaths (dogs, etc...)
PETA blurs those lines by being stupid and taking things WAY beyond that. Surely they have done some good overall (hell nude painted chicks is always a good thing in my book) but overall they come off as crazy people even to animal lovers such as myself.

[pmyers]

I think the hunter came out of the (at times circus) experience with the right attitude. Treating animals in a abusive manner is wrong and should be stopped. We as people should do our best to avoid animal abuse and unecessary animal deaths (dogs, etc...)
PETA blurs those lines by being stupid and taking things WAY beyond that. Surely they have done some good overall (hell nude painted chicks is always a good thing in my book) but overall they come off as crazy people even to animal lovers such as myself.

I agree...he came out with the same attitude that I think most sane people would: Animals are food, but treat them as humane as possible.

[pmyers]

btw...I did have the same thought about why that family would have pets. I guess they must not consider that entertainment which they mentioned earlier.

[MegaHertz67]

Where were the opposing viewpoints? There weren't any. Not a one. Did we hear from any dairy owner/operator? Any farmer or rancher get to put in their 2 cents worth? Nope. That would have only contradicted the views that were heavy handedly jammed down the viewers throat.If you have watched any of Spurlock's work, you know he is not fair or balanced and he is quite heavy handed. That's his style, and as long as he is entertaining about it...that's his job. If you agree with his angle, all the better.Penn and Teller did an episode about PETA a while ago. I suggest watching it for a little balance. See how PETA itself kills the animals it claims to want to defend in order to further it's cause at any cost. Check out their links to other more radical Eco terrorists. Google the facts about it's mentally ill founder.I completely agree that the Penn & Teller episode on animal rights and PETA is pretty enlightening and pretty scary. PETA is all about parroting their propaganda, preferably without a whole lot of thought beyond that, other than trying to make other people feel guilty. Like the hunter guy pointed out early in the episode, it's a lot of whining without any real solutions.That explains Pamela Anderson being a spokesperson.How come PETA never heads out to the farms that are treating their animals well and treating them humanely?Because that doesn't raise them any money.The lady who's main line of propaganda was saying that killing chickens is like killing Jews in WWII, and that she'd save a dog before a person was a complete idiot, but hey.That was the absolute scariest part of the entire program. Hearing this woman try to equate the mass slaughter of fathers & mothers, sons & daughters for a political agenda to the poultry industry shows a callous indifference to what makes us human. I have always said a true animal rights activist would run over my grandma to save a dog in the street. I thought I was exaggerating for effect until this woman goes off on the hunter for saving a stranger instead of his own dog in her made-up scenario.

I don't blame Spurlock for finding flashpoint opportunities to film his show. If it wasn't a little controversial no one would watch it. But how did he find just the right PETA wackos to film? Why would he think of this particular subject to begin with?Well Morgans wife is a vegan :)Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. If I remember correctly from Super Size Me, she is a vegan chef.

Vegetarianism is gateway animal rights activism. It is PETA's opportunity to talk to impressionable people, mostly tween girls, about how eating meat is mean and cruel to the animals.

If they can get you to care about a cow or a pig, they then want you to stop going to circuses because of the elephants. And then they want to talk to you about the next animal, and the next animal, until you are the nutjob in front of KFC comparing the chicken in the bucket to the holocaust.

[newsposter]

what would petas position be on things like mice, rats, roaches etc?

[mattack]

I'm kind of amazed with all of the negative reactions to this episode.

I thought that the hunter had one of the biggest transformations ever shown in this episode (the one guy dancing in the gay bar with his shirt off had probably a bigger change). He said he'll still hunt, but he went from saying that animals have no rights to actually feeling sorry for the animals and saying he'll feel differently about animals in the future. I consider that a HUGE change.

I think PETA is a lot of kooks, though the thing that makes me the most annoyed is their reaction to the site that WAS at peta.org (People Eating Tasty Animals), which is now at http://mtd.com/tasty/
(I also think that a lot of the ideas behind the ACLU are good, but they end up being kooks too..)

[StanSimmons]

Admittedly, all I've done is read books on the subject. Fast Food Nation, The Omnivore's Dilemma.

Your experience with reading a book would be exactly what? Nothing? Yeah, I thought so.That is getting awfully close to being a personal attack there, bucko.

Stating that someone likely doesn't have experience raising animals is one thing, stating that someone is likely illiterate is something else entirely.

[Tivortex]

That is getting awfully close to being a personal attack there, bucko.

Stating that someone likely doesn't have experience raising animals is one thing, stating that someone is likely illiterate is something else entirely.

Thanks for that Stan. I made the decision to simply drop it at that point. Learning the art of internet forum argumentation has been a rocky road for me personally but my arguments are better because of it. If you don't really have a point to make it's better to just stfu.

FWIW I didn't take offense at that particular silly remark.

[anom]

That is getting awfully close to being a personal attack there, bucko.

Bucko?

[anom]

Thanks for that Stan. I made the decision to simply drop it at that point. Learning the art of internet forum argumentation has been a rocky road for me personally but my arguments are better because of it. If you don't really have a point to make it's better to just stfu.

FWIW I didn't take offense at that particular silly remark.
It was pretty much a quote of your silly remark If you haven't actually worked in animal husbandry, even though it was years ago, you have no idea what's going on now? :rolleyes: Please.

If you want to take the high road and drop it, don't bump a thread from the 2nd page to announce you're doing so.

Anytime you're willing to discuss the issue minus the arrogance and condescension, let me know.

[StanSimmons]

Bucko?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bucko

bucko

Main Entry: bucko
Pronunciation: \ˈbə-(ˌ)kō\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural buck·oes
Date: 1883

1: a person who is domineering and bullying : swaggerer
2: chiefly Irish : young fellow : lad