Series 1 and digital converters

[EJ]

Will the series 1 boxes eventually be updated to work with the new digital converter boxes?

thanks,
ej

[RonDawg]

Only TiVo knows the answer, and so far they are not sharing it with the rest of us.

Digital OTA converter support for the Series 2 is not even certain, much less the Series 1.

[gastrof]

Wasn't there a link just a few days ago to a page at tivo.com that addressed both models? Didn't it say they were thinking about possible options for the Series 2, and would let people know anything done for the Series 1 "when and if"?

[gastrof]

Found it.

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/setupmytivo/Digitalantennasupport.html



TiVo Series 2 DVR Customers


If you rely on a free over-the-air television signal received through a roof-top antenna, or “rabbit ears”, you will need to purchase an analog-to-digital converter box using a government coupon. See https://www.dtv2009.gov for details. TiVo is currently working on a free software update scheduled for release in the Summer of 2008 which will enable most Series2 DVRs* to function with the new converter boxes.

*Series2 DVRs with either a 649 (Dual Tuner) or a 542 prefix, are only intended to work with cable and satellite and this functionality will remain unchanged. No additional functionality enabling these DVRs to receive a digital antenna signal will be added by the software update.


TiVo Series 1 DVR Customers


If you rely on a free over-the-air television signal received through a roof-top antenna, or “rabbit ears”, please be advised that we are investigating possible options so that you may continue to enjoy the TiVo service. Please stay tuned for details.

[RonDawg]

Unfortunately that FAQ doesn't give any more assurance to the OP and other Series 1 owners still using OTA. "We are investigating possible options so that you may continue to enjoy the TiVo service" could very well mean giving them a discount coupon towards the purchase of a TiVo HD, or a Series 2 with the ability to tune a digital OTA box, by the time next February rolls around.

[gastrof]

Never said it did.

Just providing what TiVo has actually said on the matter. No more, no less.

[bicker]

Yup. Sometimes that leads to some additional support from TiVo, sometimes it doesn't. :shrug:

[classicsat]

They cannot provide any OTA capable Series 2 TiVo anymore, so that is out.

More than likely, they will offer a TiVo HD deal.

The chances of an actual software update are slim to nil.

[mattack]

Unfortunately that FAQ doesn't give any more assurance to the OP and other Series 1 owners still using OTA. "We are investigating possible options so that you may continue to enjoy the TiVo service" could very well mean giving them a discount coupon towards the purchase of a TiVo HD, or a Series 2 with the ability to tune a digital OTA box, by the time next February rolls around.

Wouldn't you be happy if it meant perhaps a FREE TivoHD, or a very low priced TivoHD with subscription transferred (and maybe rate grandfathered)? I'm totally making that up, but it seems to me that it could be done reasonably, which would also get more S1/S2 off of their servers/phone lines.

[Pab Sungenis]

Wouldn't you be happy if it meant perhaps a FREE TivoHD, or a very low priced TivoHD with subscription transferred (and maybe rate grandfathered)? I'm totally making that up, but it seems to me that it could be done reasonably, which would also get more S1/S2 off of their servers/phone lines.

Heck, I'd just be satisfied with the option to transfer lifetime free of charge from an S1 to a THD or S3. That would be a reasonable answer for a good many S1 users, and might move some more boxes, too.

I know a few S1 owners who have refused to buy the newer boxes because they don't want to lose their lifetime.

[gastrof]

...The chances of an actual software update are slim to nil.


Ummm....

Try THIS...

"TiVo is currently working on a free software update scheduled for release in the Summer of 2008 which will enable most Series2 DVRs* to function with the new converter boxes."

For source, see my second reply above, with quote and link.

(Did you maybe mean an update for the Series 1s?)

[dylanemcgregor]

So I just gave my Dad my S1 with lifetime he is OTA only and has coupons for the digital boxes that expire in July. If the S1 by some miracle does get a software update, is there any good bets on which boxes it will support?

Also, the modem seems to have gone on this machine. I have a turbonet card that had been working fine for a couple of years, but at his place he would need a wireless bridge to connect to his network. I don't want to buy a bridge, and then try to go through the hassle of walking him through how to install both the turbonet and the bridge and connect to his network if the S1 will be a doorstep in 7 months.

Any thoughts? He is in an area where he doesn't have access to cable or sat.

[classicsat]

Ummm....
Did you maybe mean an update for the Series 1s?
Yes, I meant that an actual software update for Series 1s is extremely unlikely to happen. I know full well that the Series 2 update for DTV boxes is extremely close.

[classicsat]

I'd bet on one of the boxes that are reported to have IR codes that change the numbers (LG/Zenith, RCA boxes).

I wouldn't bet on Series 1 getting an update though. I would more bet on TiVo offering an upgrade offer, or sell off the Series 1 to someone that can use its existing cable/satellite support for some time to come.

Get powerline extenders. They are easier to set up than Wireless Bridges. In either case, both can be transitioned to a Series 3/TiVo HD, if it comes to that.

[ZeoTiVo]

Unfortunately that FAQ doesn't give any more assurance to the OP and other Series 1 owners still using OTA. "We are investigating possible options so that you may continue to enjoy the TiVo service" could very well mean giving them a discount coupon towards the purchase of a TiVo HD, or a Series 2 with the ability to tune a digital OTA box, by the time next February rolls around.

yup - in a word "broadband"
Series 1 does not have it and that makes them a revenue drain when you consider the possible revenues lost by keeping series 1 in service

[RonDawg]

Wouldn't you be happy if it meant perhaps a FREE TivoHD, or a very low priced TivoHD with subscription transferred (and maybe rate grandfathered)? I'm totally making that up, but it seems to me that it could be done reasonably, which would also get more S1/S2 off of their servers/phone lines.

I doubt they would give away a TiVoHD for free, but discounted (say $100 off if you buy it through TiVo.com) I can definitely see.

A free Series 2 is more likely, especially if TiVo decides to introduce a stripped down version that lacks a tuner, meant to be used with STB's only.

I can also see a repeat of the Lifetime subscription transfer offer especially for Series 1 customers towards a Series 2 or THD/S3 model.

Because of satellite, and Canadian subscribers due to lack of CableCard access, the Series 2 is still a viable platform. The Series 1 I can understand pulling support for, and that's why I will be very surprised if TiVo actually does issue a software update that will allow these models to work with a digital OTA box.

[RonDawg]

They cannot provide any OTA capable Series 2 TiVo anymore, so that is out.

Even if TiVo were to offer a tunerless version meant for use with a STB (whether satellite, cable, or digital OTA), similar to some DVD recorders and DVD/VCR combo units on the market today?

[mattack]

Heck, I'd just be satisfied with the option to transfer lifetime free of charge from an S1 to a THD or S3. That would be a reasonable answer for a good many S1 users, and might move some more boxes, too.

I know a few S1 owners who have refused to buy the newer boxes because they don't want to lose their lifetime.

I would *not* be happy with either of those choices, since I spent $$$ to transfer my lifetime subscriptions from S1s due to previous deals. (It sounds like the people you know didn't know about those deals and/or didn't choose to participate in them.)

I was mostly hypothesizing about things that could be done to alleviate pain for people who truly only get OTA, and would be totally stuck after Feb 2009.

[MScottC]

I would *not* be happy with either of those choices, since I spent $$$ to transfer my lifetime subscriptions from S1s due to previous deals. (It sounds like the people you know didn't know about those deals and/or didn't choose to participate in them.)
.


Quite frankly, that is nothing more than sour grapes. People choose not to partake in deals for many reason, and just because a different set of circumstances comes up with a better deal for someone else does not mean you should be unhappy.

In my case, I've got a Series 1 I'm still running on lifetime while I pay the MSD for a Series 3. I'm waiting for a theoretical S4 (that includes OCAP or Tru2Way or similar) before I excercise my one time only grandfathered free lifetime transfer. Am I sure I'm doing the right thing? No. But we all make decisions in life, and sometimes they pay off, and sometimes they don't.

[classicsat]

Even if TiVo were to offer a tunerless version meant for use with a STB (whether satellite, cable, or digital OTA), similar to some DVD recorders and DVD/VCR combo units on the market today?

They could, technically, but won't. I don't know how that would pass FCC rule muster, but just to upgrade a few hundred thousand or less S1 OTA users, I doubt that TiVo would make a special TiVo box for those. Although it would be as simple as leaving the tuners and one encoder off, there is cost in making a custom manufacturing line for them, the software and keeping a SKU for it. The Series 2 DT as it is now, is the end of the Series 2 line I suppose, so they will not develop a new one.

IMO, they would be clear to make the coming DTV tuner update available to all Series 2s, but they don't see it that way.

[ZeoTiVo]

I doubt they would give away a TiVoHD for free, but discounted (say $100 off if you buy it through TiVo.com) I can definitely see.

A free Series 2 is more likely, especially if TiVo decides to introduce a stripped down version that lacks a tuner, meant to be used with STB's only. Why would TiVo do any of this. Those with S1 have owned them for years. It is not like they just bought them a few months ago unless it was bought used.

I can also see a repeat of the Lifetime subscription transfer offer especially for Series 1 customers towards a Series 2 or THD/S3 model.
Yep - the lifetime transfer offer makes sense but most likely the 199$ offer for Lifetimes over 4 years old. Will that be the best solution for all the S1 OTA users? Most likely not and some will go explore other options which is fine. I see no reason to compensate Series 1 users when it is analog OTA going away by Govt. mandate and not some function that TiVo has taken out of the S1.

[atmuscarella]

Well they have already offered some people (like me) a TiVo HD with a TiVo wireless Ethernet adapter for $199.99 (the offer I received was good through the end of May). So it doesn't seem unreasonable to believe that they will do it again. Also I could see them using OTA only users as a way to clear out TiVo HD units when they get closer to having a "Series 4" with the new 2 way cable card standards ready.

Thanks,

[wblynch]

It would seem all they need to do is update the remote codes to include a couple of the widely available digitial converter boxes....

[mattack]

Why would TiVo do any of this. Those with S1 have owned them for years. It is not like they just bought them a few months ago unless it was bought used.


Tivo *could* do this, so that someone's otherwise still-working equipment doesn't suddenly become useless (if they're only OTA), because of government-mandated changes in the broadcast spectrum. (BTW, don't take this as me being against the "switch". Though I don't have a HDTV yet, and I am generally far far far far more pro-backwards compatibility than others, I think this switch is a reasonable one make.)

But especially if someone has a lifetimed series 1, with little hope of Tivo actually updating the software on it to support the converter boxes, having some sort of special deal for the OTA only (essentially impossible to prove, I realize) users is reasonable.

[mattack]

It would seem all they need to do is update the remote codes to include a couple of the widely available digitial converter boxes....

Are all of the channels at the same #? i.e. aren't some stations changing channel #? The guide data presumably still thinks something is on channel 4, for example.. and the new channel won't necessarily be on 4-1, right? (From other things I've read, I presume that these converter boxes take a 'channel number' to mean the first sub-channel... at least some of the boxes do.)

When analog goes off, then that would presumably mean more work on Tivo's part to massage the new digital OTA data into the 'old' guide data.

[kb7oeb]

So I just gave my Dad my S1 with lifetime he is OTA only and has coupons for the digital boxes that expire in July. If the S1 by some miracle does get a software update, is there any good bets on which boxes it will support?

I suggest the RCA unit from walmart, it responds to RCA Directv IR codes. The only reason you can't use it now is because Tivo sends a leading zero (ie 003 instead of 03)

Rumor is the DTVPal from echostar will respond to Dish Network codes but it has not been released yet.

Are all of the channels at the same #? i.e. aren't some stations changing channel #? The guide data presumably still thinks something is on channel 4, for example.. and the new channel won't necessarily be on 4-1, right? (From other things I've read, I presume that these converter boxes take a 'channel number' to mean the first sub-channel... at least some of the boxes do.)

Usually the only stations that do not mirror their analog signal on -1 is PBS. Mine only mirrors for certain hours of the day.

The FCC requires stations use their analog channel number as their virtual channel number so even though stations might switch channels they will still be "4" on the display.

[scandia101]

Why would TiVo do any of this. Those with S1 have owned them for years. It is not like they just bought them a few months ago unless it was bought used.

Tivo *could* do this, so that someone's otherwise still-working equipment doesn't suddenly become useless (if they're only OTA), because of government-mandated changes in the broadcast spectrum. (BTW, don't take this as me being against the "switch". Though I don't have a HDTV yet, and I am generally far far far far more pro-backwards compatibility than others, I think this switch is a reasonable one make.)

But especially if someone has a lifetimed series 1, with little hope of Tivo actually updating the software on it to support the converter boxes, having some sort of special deal for the OTA only (essentially impossible to prove, I realize) users is reasonable.

The switch to digital was mandated by the FCC before any TiVo existed. When you know that it will eventually become obsolete before you buy it, it makes little sense to expect anything more.
Ignorance of the change is no excuse.

[classicsat]

It would seem all they need to do is update the remote codes to include a couple of the widely available digitial converter boxes....

It is a lot more complex than just IR codes. An "antenna with box" option needs added to guided setup, and the guide/channel changing engine needs modified to support "-" channels. Being that requires a software update, it will not likely happen for Series 1s, whose software development has ceased years ago.

[wblynch]

It is a lot more complex than just IR codes. An "antenna with box" option needs added to guided setup, and the guide/channel changing engine needs modified to support "-" channels. Being that requires a software update, it will not likely happen for Series 1s, whose software development has ceased years ago.

How is it any different than a satellite box or cable box? There are people that have tricked their Tivos into working with a CECB.

[inpixels]

The switch to digital was mandated by the FCC before any TiVo existed. When you know that it will eventually become obsolete before you buy it, it makes little sense to expect anything more.
Ignorance of the change is no excuse.

Defective by design then.

yup - in a word "broadband"
Series 1 does not have it and that makes them a revenue drain when you consider the possible revenues lost by keeping series 1 in service

Support your product and the customer supports the company. That's why there is a Tivo "Community." Just look at eBay as an example how to destroy a "community" through poor customer support.

I have a Lifetime Series 1 with TivowebPlus networked. I just canceled cable television because of the free HD digital channels I am able to get and because of Hulu, Fancast and Netflix. Now my Tivo is disconnected and I have a Pinnacle USB HD dongle thingie as a temporary replacement.... temporary because I EXPECT that tivo will offer a discounted box with a Lifetime transfer, software upgrade and/or converter box compatibility.

If I throw the Tivo out I won't get a new one. You have to understand the type of person that is a Series 1 owner. There is a reason why we haven't upgraded. Tivo would lose part of it's subscriber base because we are a stubborn bunch!

[ADent]

They can't get the clock to work properly with Daylight Savings Time on a S1 Standalone.

How likely are any changes to support DTV converter boxes?

[classicsat]

How is it any different than a satellite box or cable box? There are people that have tricked their Tivos into working with a CECB.

1: OTA boxes use the "-" key as part of the whole channel number.

2: An option for "OTA with box" needs added. Having users fake satellite o cable providers can be confusing, o not have the proper channels, or would take a cetrain degree of work on TiVos part, on the back end.

[wblynch]

Some of the converter boxes accept 3 or 4 digit entries, with leading zeros, to key in the channel numbers.

For example, 041 (or 0041) would make 4-1 and 042 (or 0042) would make 4-2.

There are some clever people out there who can figure out to get something done without waiting for official support.

[DougF]

Some of this info is already available elsewhere in the forums, but I'm updating this thread for those who find it while looking for info on the DTV boxes and Series 1 units.

Just in case you were holding your breath...

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6552435#post6552435

That software is way too old for us to dig into and try to upgrade at this point. Even if we did, most of these boxes have drives that have been out there so long that many of them probably wouldn't handle a SW update very gracefully. We strive to keep the S1 platforms as functional as possible, even going so far as to create a workaround for the new Daylist Saving Time schedule, but it is not practical for us to come up with a software update to provide ATSC support.

We spent quite a bit of time researching options and came to the conclusion that that offering upgrade packages (see tivo.com/digital2009 (http://www3.tivo.com/form-apps/show.do?pg=/setupandsupport/digitaltrans/digitaltrans.html)) is the best way to handle this situation for customers still using the S1 platform to receive antenna channels.

So, there won't be any support from TiVo, but all hope is not lost. There is a nice guide here that helped me get started: http://www.courtesan.com/tivo/dtv.html.

I posted about my experience in the Series 2 thread: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6520855#post6520855 and http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6554047#post6554047.

You can still use your Series 1 unit with a converter box, though it's not perfect. If you have a hacked unit and can do the channel mapping as described in the courtesan.com link above, your experience should be even better. Since I was already using an unsubbed unit with no guide data anyway, the change has been pretty seamless for me.

[TiVo Steve]

I put in my TSN at the above link and got this...

Because you currently DO NOT receive analog signals using an antenna, you don't need to lift a finger! Your TiVo®HD DVR has digital tuners built-in so you do not need to buy a government-subsidized digital converter box or a digital-ready TV. Just enjoy your favorite shows and the TiVo experience like you always have.

Thanks for being a member of the TiVo family!

Digital Tuners?? Philips HDR-312 Series 1

[MichaelK]

I have an S1, S2, and 2 S3's on my account.

the S1 and S2 both give that message.

I think they figure if you have ANY ATSC ready tivo's then you are all set????

[TiVoJerry]

TiVo Steve and MichaelK, please send me a PM with your TSNs so I can pass this along to the webteam. Thanks.

[tvcn]

TiVoJerry, will the analog Antenna option continue to be supported in Series 1 Guided Setup after Feb 2009? I ask because I use a Series 1 Tivo to manually record the video of security cameras, which have been modulated to analog VHF/UHF channels.

[classicsat]

The option will likely continue to be there, at least as long as Tribune continues to provide an analog OTA lineup.

[TiVoJerry]

The analog option will not be removed from the S1 and S2 platforms. There will still be low power stations in the U.S. that will not have to make the transition. Also, our Canadian and Puerto Rican friends are unaffected by this transition.

[stamasd]

I have an S1, S2, and 2 S3's on my account.

the S1 and S2 both give that message.

I think they figure if you have ANY ATSC ready tivo's then you are all set????

I'm sure that's not the case, since I see the same message, and my account only has 2 series1 on it. Somehow TiVo, Inc thinks I have HDTiVos, not HDR212s. See thread for reference: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=399987

(Edit) I just checked, it says that "This TiVo Service Number you entered has already been used for this offer" which is false, for both my TiVos.

[stamasd]

TiVo Steve and MichaelK, please send me a PM with your TSNs so I can pass this along to the webteam. Thanks.

Can I send you my serial numbers as well? I have the same problem.

[scandia101]

TiVo Steve and MichaelK, please send me a PM with your TSNs so I can pass this along to the webteam. Thanks.

Quite a few people have been complaining about having this problem with the tivo offer for a month and you want to help two people?

Pretending you care by offering to help only the two most recent complaints about a system that just plain doesn't work correctly - priceless

[DougF]

Quite a few people have been complaining about having this problem with the tivo offer for a month and you want to help two people?

Pretending you care by offering to help only the two most recent complaints about a system that just plain doesn't work correctly - priceless

It's not about helping only two people. They need examples to work with and find the problem. That's pretty standard with software problems. Jerry may not have specifically stated that's what he was doing, but I thought it was implied.

[MichaelK]

Quite a few people have been complaining about having this problem with the tivo offer for a month and you want to help two people?

Pretending you care by offering to help only the two most recent complaints about a system that just plain doesn't work correctly - priceless


he doesnt want to help just 2 people.

He wants TSN's from people that get stupid messages so that he can give examples to the web programers so they can fix their mistakes SO EVERYONE is helped.

so he's not pretending to care- he's giving his web team the info to fix it. That IS caring my friend.

I emailed Jerry my TSN's and he passed them to the web people- hopefully they can figure out their problem and fix it for the rest of you.

[MichaelK]

Jerry's reply to my pm was:

I'll pass your info along so they can check the logic on the website.

he didn't give me any free pass, he's trying to help them find the bug

[TiVoJerry]

Yes, sorry if it seemed like I was ignoring some people, but I was merely taking known examples that came to my attention and jumping on it.

Keep in mind that email updates from thread discussions will stop arriving if I don't go back to the forum immediately. I'm subscribed to a lot of threads, so I don't get to read every single update unless I go back through the thread every time. I could easily overlook a number of posts at any given time when focused on a single reply. Such is the nature of volunteer participation. I'm sorry if you feel slighted in any way.

I've taken the examples I was given and duplicated the issue. I reported it to the team responsible for the app so they can investigate.

[bicker]

Pretending you care by offering to help only the two most recent complaints about a system that just plain doesn't work correctly - pricelessHow incredibly rude of you to suggest such a thing.

[magnus]

My TSN gets this message. I have not used the offer and have called several times to Tivo support and each time I get a different answer as to why I do not qualify.

'Thank you for your request. This TiVo Service Number you entered has already been used for this offer'

TiVo Steve and MichaelK, please send me a PM with your TSNs so I can pass this along to the webteam. Thanks.

[jrm01]

Pretending you care by offering to help only the two most recent complaints about a system that just plain doesn't work correctly - priceless

You are always close to the line. You jumped across it this time. Way too far.

[gastrof]

My TSN gets this message. I have not used the offer and have called several times to Tivo support and each time I get a different answer as to why I do not qualify.

'Thank you for your request. This TiVo Service Number you entered has already been used for this offer'

Have you also sent a PM to Jerry about this, or are you just hoping he's going to notice this post? A PM might be the thing to do.

[inpixels]

Re: "run my dtt900_add script on the TiVo."

So am I supposed to put the contents of "dtt900_add" in "mfslib.tcl
" by editing/amending the contents of mfslib.tcl and FTP it over to /tvlib/tcl/tv/ ?
:o

or is "dtt900_add" supposed to be a separate file in it's own right?
In which case what would be the file extension for dtt900_add ...
dtt900_add.tcl ? And where do I transfer that to? /tvlib/tcl/tv/ ?
:confused:

How do I run/execute the file?

I have a hacked TivoWeb Series 1 Tivo
Using WS_FTP95 and notepad ...


Appreciate any insight into this!
:up:

Thanks.

[TiVoJedi]

Re: "run my dtt900_add script on the TiVo."

So am I supposed to put the contents of "dtt900_add" in "mfslib.tcl
" by editing/amending the contents of mfslib.tcl and FTP it over to /tvlib/tcl/tv/ ?
:o

or is "dtt900_add" supposed to be a separate file in it's own right?
In which case what would be the file extension for dtt900_add ...
dtt900_add.tcl ? And where do I transfer that to? /tvlib/tcl/tv/ ?
:confused:

How do I run/execute the file?

I have a hacked TivoWeb Series 1 Tivo
Using WS_FTP95 and notepad ...


Appreciate any insight into this!
:up:

Thanks.

First you have to have an FTP daemon running on your TiVo. Once that is running you can FTP into it to upload the script. I used the free Filezilla FTP client just fine to upload it. I put it in \var\hack directory

Once it is uploaded on your TiVo, you have to change permissions on the file so you run this:

chmod 755 dtt900_add [enter]

Then you run it like this:

./dtt900_add

That's what I did

[David Scavo]

My Series1 TSN gives the same error as other posters (you are all set for digital transition).

Can anyone shed some light on the wonderful upgrade offers they plan to offer us ???

[TiVoJerry]

We didn't want to give a blind offer to every S1 unit ever made, so we picked a date before putting up the promo page and captured configuration data for all S1 units in the field that were calling in. If your unit wasn't calling our servers within the past few months, or was calling in but not configured for use with antenna at that time, we considered that unit to be unaffected by the transition.

The offers vary but I am not at liberty to go into details at this point in time, but the bottom line is that this is only supposed to be an offer for our S1 customers who will be affected by the transition.

The team in charge of this page has been informed about this and other confusing messaging. We apologize for the confusion, both with the page and our reps, and will be tightening up the logic and process as quickly as possible. Thank you for your understanding.

[ZeoTiVo]

thanks for being actively helpful as always TiVoJerry.

The ways of the TiVo Ninja sometimes calls for the ever ready blocking blow. :cool:

[TiVoJerry]

I've gotten a few PMs on this subject, so let me clarify a little further. I try to help when I can afford to but I'm only one person and don't always have the bandwidth to get involved with every case that comes my way.

Our systems performed a capture before the promo went up so that we would have a very good idea about which S1 DVRs would qualify for an offer. As anticipated, there are people who want to get a discount even if their DVR wasn't configured for use with antenna as a source. Changing your DVR's configuration now will not help as we have a historical view showing all connections going back for quite some time (several months prior to the offer going up).

If you haven't connected within the last six months, we figure you aren't using your DVR. Even then we still know what it was configured for when it last connected.

Granted, our error messages could use cleaning up and we're working on fixing that as soon as possible. A message of "your TSN was already used" is indeed confusing when it should've said "your TSN was not configured for antenna and doesn't qualify". The S1 population is still considerable so we can't open up the floodgates.

The spirit of our offer was to give an option for our loyal S1 customers who do not have the software resolution that our S2 customers do. We hope our efforts are seen as being customer-friendly despite some of the confusing messaging.

And just so those of you reading know, some of the PMs I received were from customers who did indeed qualify for a promotion. We are doing our level best to minimize mistakes and apologize if you were incorrectly told you don't qualify. Please try to be patient and respectful with our agents. They have a tough job and do it with enthusiasm. If you have been using antenna for awhile and are being told you don't qualify, politely ask for your situation to be reviewed by another person. If the agent is indeed in error, hopefully a second set of eyes will clarify the situation.

[inpixels]

Thanks TivoJedi,

I did CGI Scripting many moons ago so CHMOD brings back memories.
I believe I transferred and configured the dtt900 script correctly.

So I went to RadioShack today (with my $40 rebate card from Uncle Sam).
CORRECTION: I went to 3 RadioShacks in Downtown Brooklyn today and they DON'T carry the dtt900 anymore!

I see a bunch for sale on eBay but I do want to try to use my rebate card.

Does anyone know any store carrying the dtt900 accepting the rebate?

Inpixels

[inpixels]

Could I send you and/or Tivo a copy of my cable bill(s) showing I canceled Cable?
:confused:

I canceled cable in May... been doing the Hulu.com thing and haven't used my Tivo since...
:o

Not sure this dtt900 hack will work out, but will give it a try.
:D

I miss my Tivo
:(

[leemoreau]

I'm in Canada so maybe I don't get this whole "over the air thing". But what the hell is an antenna on the roof or rabbit ears to get cable??? What on earth can you get for free aside from cable tv or satellite? I don't get it, if you connect rabbit ears to a TV in Canada, you MIGHT get channel 3 if you're lucky, and the quality will be horrible. If it's free over the air, why would anyone even HAVE tivo if you're too cheap to pay for cable tv??? I've never ever seen anything here where you can use an antenna on the roof for cable. I've seen people with big old antennas on the roof, that have a ExpressVu satellite now mounted using it. I guess it's different here, but here in Canada you either have Cable tv, ie Rogers, or Shaw, or you have Satellite, ie Expressvu or Starchoice, nothing else.

[TiVoJedi]

Thanks TivoJedi,

I did CGI Scripting many moons ago so CHMOD brings back memories.
I believe I transferred and configured the dtt900 script correctly.

So I went to RadioShack today (with my $40 rebate card from Uncle Sam).
CORRECTION: I went to 3 RadioShacks in Downtown Brooklyn today and they DON'T carry the dtt900 anymore!

I see a bunch for sale on eBay but I do want to try to use my rebate card.

Does anyone know any store carrying the dtt900 accepting the rebate?

Inpixels

No problem! Brought back memories for me too. Thank Todd for putting together that website. :)

I actually bought the Zenith DTT901, which is the newer version of the DTT900. Do you have a Circuit City store near you? That's where I got mine.

Uncle Sam gave my coupons to the United States postal service, who never successfully delivered them to me. Friends with cable-only households gave me their coupons.

leemoreau It's not that Americans are too 'cheap' to buy cable.. it is sometimes a factor of a local network affiliate not being available on the cable system offered in their area. For example, Time-Warner Cable is my area provider, however they don't carry the ABC network (couldn't make an agreement to rebroadcast with the local ABC affiliate). That's not the fault of the consumer. Maybe the local station only wants to share it under unreasonable terms with the cable company (ie. lots of $$$). The off-the-air networks are the source network where the cable system gets the signal to rebroadcast. Cable systems compress the video to squeeze it on their system and this decreases quality. The free over-the-air signal with an antenna is actually the higher quality picture and sound.

Another possibility is poor, rural people being unable to afford cable TV or satellite. They rely on the free over-the-air signals to watch national TV.


Using a converter box with the TiVo provides a superior signal for the TiVo to record these free local channels. The snowy picture you describe is old school analog over-the-air TV signals, which are going away next year (for our government to sell that spectrum of radio signal to make major $$$). That's the main point of this household conversion to digital TV shenanigans.

The free over-the-air TV signals are paid for mostly by advertisers trying to sell Americans Bud Light beer, Nike shoes, Coca Cola, Joe Blow's widgets. I think in Europe they also can receive digital TV over the air using antennas and I think they might actually be able to pay for premium television signals broadcast over the air as well. If you think about it.. a satellite dish is an antenna looking into space whereas a rooftop antenna is also an antenna (obviously), but it is receptive to signals much closer to the Earth.

[classicsat]

Canada has broadcast stations that you can receive with an antenna attached to your home or the TV set directly, and yes receive for free.
Aside from piracy, satellite and cable TV are pay mediums you pay to receive their service, including OTA stations you can otherwise receive free with an Antenna. Some people cannot afford a pay service, are budget conscious, or just are happy with what they receive over antenna.

Done right, antenna is great, and in a more metropolitan area, you get more, and possibly digital. And if you live close to the US border, you can get US stations without interruption.

[RonDawg]

I'm in Canada so maybe I don't get this whole "over the air thing". But what the hell is an antenna on the roof or rabbit ears to get cable??? What on earth can you get for free aside from cable tv or satellite? I don't get it, if you connect rabbit ears to a TV in Canada, you MIGHT get channel 3 if you're lucky, and the quality will be horrible. If it's free over the air, why would anyone even HAVE tivo if you're too cheap to pay for cable tv??? I've never ever seen anything here where you can use an antenna on the roof for cable. I've seen people with big old antennas on the roof, that have a ExpressVu satellite now mounted using it. I guess it's different here, but here in Canada you either have Cable tv, ie Rogers, or Shaw, or you have Satellite, ie Expressvu or Starchoice, nothing else.

In the more populated parts of the US, you get more than just one channel using just an antenna. My family couldn't afford cable TV until I was in my teens, so until then we had to make do with the big 3 networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) plus the four local stations that broadcast mostly old reruns like I Love Lucy and Bonanza.

While most Americans today do subscribe to either cable or satellite, a significant portion (I heard around 15% or so) still get their TV "the old fashioned way" using an antenna. If my figures and math are correct, that's 45 million people, more than the entire population of your country. That's why our government has been running public service ads like crazy over the analog OTA shutoff next February...a lot of people would find themselves without TV unless they buy a new digital set, or buy a digital converter box to allow them to receive the digital OTA signals with their analog TV's.

[gastrof]

I'm in Canada so maybe I don't get this whole "over the air thing". But what the hell is an antenna on the roof or rabbit ears to get cable??? What on earth can you get for free aside from cable tv or satellite? I don't get it, if you connect rabbit ears to a TV in Canada, you MIGHT get channel 3 if you're lucky, and the quality will be horrible. If it's free over the air, why would anyone even HAVE tivo if you're too cheap to pay for cable tv??? I've never ever seen anything here where you can use an antenna on the roof for cable. I've seen people with big old antennas on the roof, that have a ExpressVu satellite now mounted using it. I guess it's different here, but here in Canada you either have Cable tv, ie Rogers, or Shaw, or you have Satellite, ie Expressvu or Starchoice, nothing else.


Traditionally, antennas on the top of your house (or even inside) were the only way to get TV.

You do NOT use an antenna to get cable. It's called "cable" for a reason.

I'm sorry to hear that you live in an area where antenna TV can't be easily received, but in many, many places, that's not the case.

My family visited Cananda twice while I was growing up, and in the places we visited, the motels all had TV.

Considering the years those visits took place, I doubt it was cable.

The reason people have TiVo when they don't have cable is simple...

In TiVo setup "antenna" is an option. This leads to, in many places, all sorts of OverTheAir channels coming up in your local lineup as you're setting the TiVo up.

You mention that people who formerly had standard antennas on their roof who've switched to using some type of satellite...

Well GOODIE FOR THEM.

Doesn't the fact that they DID have antennas tell you the antennas were doing SOMETHING for a good long while?

The fact they've switched to something that likely gave them more channels doesn't mean the antenna never worked.

By the way...

Where do you think a lot of the channels available on cable and satellite come from?

They're local OTA channels which are picked up BY ANTENNA if you live near to their broadcast facilities. The fact they may also be carried by cable further away makes no difference. SOMEONE is still getting those channels by antenna, or those channels wouldn't exist.

Television has always been, primarily, an OTA "freeview" type thing, at least in the US and Canada.

Cable and satellite are latecomers to the game.

Sorry if this rocks your world view. Welcome to reality.

[jrm01]

In the USA less than 14% of households rely on OTA broadcasts. So it's not a large number, only 15.4 million households.

But wait, maybe that's not so small considering it's 45% higher than total number of Canadian households with any kind of TV service.

[gastrof]

In the USA less than 14% of households rely on OTA broadcasts. So it's not a large number, only 15.4 million households.

But wait, maybe that's not so small considering it's 45% higher than total number of Canadian households with any kind of TV service.


There's a difference between people CHOOSING to have cable, and people NEEDING cable if they're to have TV at all.

We've had cable here for years, but could go without and still have plenty of television.

I'm sure that a lot of the "cable" people in the figures you quote aren't unable to get OTA if they wanted to.

[jrm01]

I'm sure that a lot of the "cable" people in the figures you quote aren't unable to get OTA if they wanted to.

I'm not sure what your point is, but I would guess that the majority of the people with cable could use OTA instead if they wanted to.

[gastrof]

I'm not sure what your point is....

Ummm...

Check what the thread was saying and what I was replying to?

The percentage of people in the US who use antennas was shown to be small, apparently making the point that even in the States, "everyone" has cable.

My point is that the discussion regarding Canada included the claim that you CAN'T get TV without cable in Canada.

Untrue.

Maybe so in many places, but untrue overall.

For someone to then point out how few people in the States use an antenna could give a misimpression, the misimpression that in the States you also "need cable" and can't get TV with an antenna.

People with cable in the States don't, for the most part, HAVE TO have it to receive television. Many simply do it for better reception, and a greater number of channels.

[bicker]

I'm not sure what your point is, but I would guess that the majority of the people with cable could use OTA instead if they wanted to.And beyond that, the price for cable for just OTA channels is pretty low: $8.50 per month here.

[jrm01]

For someone to then point out how few people in the States use an antenna could give a misimpression, the misimpression that in the States you also "need cable" and can't get TV with an antenna.



Agreed. Actually I wasn't trying to indicate that the only a few in US use OTA, it was a futile attempt at being facetious by pointing out that the number of OTA users in the US is greater than all tv users in Canada.

[inpixels]

Thanks again for the tip TivoJedi... I will pick my DTT901 up at a Circuit City.

---
Regarding the above conversation:

Reception for old antenna TV in Brooklyn New York is very snowy. I suspect since the towers went down in 9/11 reception has been worse. I don't know because I had cable at the time.

Recently I decided to cancel Cable TV to go free digital OTA. Cmparing digital to the old antenna OTA (anolog). Both are free commercial television Over Tha Air (OTA). But the old reception is so snowy it's terrible....most channels are not even watchable.

But....the new free OTA digital signals are as good if not better than when I had cable TV.

To be fair, I did not have High Definition Cable at the time.... But now I have a High Def TV and watching HDTV for free OTA.....

[TheGreenHornet]

I don't get it, ....If it's free over the air, why would anyone even HAVE tivo if you're too cheap to pay for cable tv?.

What you do not get with an antenna is a BILL! :D

Cheap? Not at all! Smart business decision: YES!

I chose to take control of my viewing habits with my S3 Tivo recording broadcast shows and a subscription to Netflix. There is always something to watch with either method and on my terms and pay only for what I watch. (and it is definitely not an info commercial)

My old analog Sony TV and series 2 Tivo has just been teamed with the Best Buy Insignia converter box. Once again - it now receives a perfect digital signal and have expanded the life of my older gear. It only gets better when we get the software upgrade later in the summer.

I no longer feel victimized like I did when each month I would pay that expensive cable bill for shotty service. Have many times have you channel surfed and could not find anything to watch? I am amazed by people who hear that I do not pay for cable and think I do not have television at all. The cable companies have done a great job at portraying themselves as a necessary "utility" like the telephone or electricity.

I am not familiar with the broadcast / pay TV industry in Canada. I am curious as to how many Canadian citizens along the boarder of the United States who are watching the games on NBC via OTA with a digital signal - as I am now - from the major U.S. markets like Buffalo or Detroit.

[classicsat]

A lot more Canadians get US network stations as part of their cable or satellite package, myself included. I am using The CBC a my Olympic source though.

[DougF]

Cable is not available in my location, so OTA viewing is my only option for locals. I'm pretty certain that the locals from my small market will never be available on DirecTV.

[inpixels]

Can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong trying to "execute" dtt900_add
here is a screengrab of my telnet session
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq144/inpixels/tivoftt900.jpg

Thanks!