TiVo to be subscription free in Australia [Text View]

dwit

05-21-2008, 09:55 PM

Sounds very dubious.. if true, why couldn't they do the same thing here (in the US)?
..and if they do, it'll make those of us who paid $$$ for lifetime subscriptions really angry.. and you won't like us when we're angry..

HULK OUT.

Seems to be a totally different model of operation there. Seems to be some sort of partnership(licensing, etc) where maybe the partner is shouldering much/most of the risk.

And still to be seen is the cost of the unit.

Aussie

05-21-2008, 09:58 PM

Sounds very dubious.. if true, why couldn't they do the same thing here (in the US)?
..and if they do, it'll make those of us who paid $$$ for lifetime subscriptions really angry.. and you won't like us when we're angry..

HULK OUT.

Yes, I find it weird too, but maybe the box will sell for $1000.00, which would not be abnormal for a PVR in Australia. That would be more than the US pays for a TiVoHD and lifetime...

Cheers
Aussie

MirclMax

05-21-2008, 10:46 PM

<subscribe to thread>

I'd be curious if someone could try to track down what the cost of the unit is going to be.. (or if someone could report back eventually when its being sold).

Aussie

05-21-2008, 10:51 PM

<subscribe to thread>

I'd be curious if someone could try to track down what the cost of the unit is going to be.. (or if someone could report back eventually when its being sold).

Previous rumours have suggested a price around $500, but that was when a subscription was expected. (US and AU dollars are close to parity at the moment).

Cheers
Aussie

magnus

05-21-2008, 11:33 PM

richsadams

05-22-2008, 01:50 AM

(US and AU dollars are close to parity at the moment).Now there's a sad statement. :( (For the U.S. that is.)

Aussie

05-22-2008, 02:28 AM

Now there's a sad statement. :( (For the U.S. that is.)

Well, that's the sub-prime crisis for you... We have some ripple effects here, but I can still get 8.3% interest on a no-risk 6 month bank deposit.

But yes, sad the mess the US economy is in, selling adjustable rate mortgages to people who would never be able to meet the increased payments was a risky strategy. :(

Cheers
Aussie

richsadams

05-22-2008, 02:36 AM

Well, that's the sub-prime crisis for you... We have some ripple effects here, but I can still get 8.3% interest on a no-risk 6 month bank deposit.

But yes, sad the mess the US economy is in, selling adjustable rate mortgages to people who would never be able to meet the increased payments was a risky strategy. :(

Cheers
AussieYou said it. We sold our home in New Zealand about two years ago. Boy do I wish we would have waited until now. But who knew?! At least you've gotten what appears to be a decent PM now. :up:

P.S. Sorry about this year's Super 14. (We're big Canterbury fans. ;) )

sbiller

05-22-2008, 10:30 AM

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2008/05/22/get-tivo-for-free.aspx

rainwater

05-22-2008, 11:02 AM

Maybe Tivo is going to try the advertising model down under. I believe they could do similar here. The free boxes would get all the advertising that could be sent to the box. The monthly/lifetime boxes could opt out of the advertising.

So in the US that would only mean removing ads from boxes since they already support the service with ads with all boxes. I'm not sure how that is going to help TiVo financially.

magnus

05-22-2008, 03:52 PM

Not sure, maybe it would get people to be more interested in the premium service or maybe the ad revenue would pay for it. If you have millions of people on this service (I realize currently they do not) and you can deliver targeted ads to them... I would think companies would jump on board with that and pay a premium.

Yes, it would take a bit to set something up like this and you'd have to already have a good amount of people using the free boxes but I still think it would help Tivo financially.

The monthly/lifetime boxes could also carry other premiums that the free boxes simply would not get. Tivo Desktop Plus and Unbox for example.

The same could be done for Comcast and D* (assuming that D* wakes up). No extra ads (only shown on Tivo Central) and no premiums beyond current offering (unless Comcast / D* pay for those).

Free boxes: 7 day guide, 1 box per IP/phone line, no downloads beyond Tivo Cast (maybe not even that).

They could keep the S1 and S2 boxes out of the landfills by doing something like this.

I'm sure that Tivo will do something because I'm sure that they're not going to have US foot the bill for free service in Australia.

However, that's not stopped some companies. For example, eBay does not charge insertion fees for auctions to the Chinese.

So in the US that would only mean removing ads from boxes since they already support the service with ads with all boxes. I'm not sure how that is going to help TiVo financially.

classicsat

05-22-2008, 06:24 PM

You have to look at the bigger picture, Seven Media Group is a media conglomerate (how large, I cannot say), whom have a number of divisions and (probably positive) cash flows. TiVo is not, their are a lone company with one core product.

Seven is probably using their position as a media conglomerate to provide the free TiVo service (while paying TiVo Inc their just due), to gain revenue for advertising and/or commissions on premium content.

TiVo in their position of relying almost solely on subscription revenue (and not as much on advertising and content commisions), cannot offer a free level of service.

Also, keep in mind Seven could be doing a lot of the work in-house, namely in providing the back end servers for the service, and the guide data.

magnus

05-22-2008, 07:07 PM

I think maybe that Tivo should explain the deal. It seems jacked up that people in the US have to pay the monthly fee and others do not.

You have to look at the bigger picture, Seven Media Group is a media conglomerate (how large, I cannot say), whom have a number of divisions and (probably positive) cash flows. TiVo is not, their are a lone company with one core product.

Seven is probably using their position as a media conglomerate to provide the free TiVo service (while paying TiVo Inc their just due), to gain revenue for advertising and/or commissions on premium content.

TiVo in their position of relying almost solely on subscription revenue (and not as much on advertising and content commisions), cannot offer a free level of service.

Also, keep in mind Seven could be doing a lot of the work in-house, namely in providing the back end servers for the service, and the guide data.

mattack

05-22-2008, 09:27 PM

Well, that's the sub-prime crisis for you... We have some ripple effects here, but I can still get 8.3% interest on a no-risk 6 month bank deposit.

<off topic>

OH MY GOD. Can I invest in an Australian bank? I'm serious.

By "no-risk", I presume you mean the equivalent of FDIC insured.
</off topic>

Aussie

05-22-2008, 09:56 PM

<off topic>

OH MY GOD. Can I invest in an Australian bank? I'm serious.

By "no-risk", I presume you mean the equivalent of FDIC insured.
</off topic>

Well, presumably you could, but I imagine you'd have to convert your US$ to AU$ to do so, and then you would run the risk of the exchange rate moving against you... But then it might go the other way too... Are you a betting man?

We don't have any equivalent of FDIC insurance, just the implicit guarantee that in the last 100 years the government has never allowed a bank to fail. We have a different banking structure to the US with just four major banks, and the Australian banking system is generally considered safe. I never worry about my money!

Cheers
Aussie

Aussie

05-22-2008, 10:19 PM

<off topic>

OH MY GOD. Can I invest in an Australian bank? I'm serious.

By "no-risk", I presume you mean the equivalent of FDIC insured.
</off topic>

Or I guess you could take over my mortgage... :)

I pay nearly 10% currently on an ARM (these are the norm here) so I'd love to re-mortgage at the sort of rates you guys can get!

(Actually the disparity in rates is more caused by the Resources boom here than sub-prime. We are raising interest rates to try to keep inflation under control whereas you're cutting them to try to stimulate the economy out of recession!)

Cheers
Aussie

dwit

05-22-2008, 10:22 PM

I think maybe that Tivo should explain the deal. It seems jacked up that people in the US have to pay the monthly fee and others do not.

Before jumping to conclusions based on a press release, maybe just wait for more details.

Arduinna

05-27-2008, 02:33 PM

Interesting.

Aussie

07-01-2008, 02:23 AM

Before jumping to conclusions based on a press release, maybe just wait for more details.

Well, the waiting is over, Channel Seven and TiVo had their media launch today and the TiVo is definitely subscription free here, with a list price of AU$699, (roughly the same in US$, give or take a buck or two) for the equivalent of a TiVoHD.

There's an article here (http://www.smh.com.au/news/articles/seven-unveils-hobbled-tivo/2008/07/01/1214678017036.html).

from the article...

Hughes said Seven aimed to have partners for the music and movie stores by early next year. It planned to switch on some internet video content - such as short clips from the ABC - within the "next few weeks" at no extra cost.

"It really reduces at launch from the consumer's perspective the complexity of the device," Hughes said.

However, he conceded that part of the reason was so Seven could earn extra revenue from TiVo, as it was not charging customers ongoing subscription fees.

"This is the only place in the world where you can buy a TiVo box without a subscription," he said.
Cheers
Ron

jfh3

07-01-2008, 02:43 AM

Let's hope that Tivo gets some sort of cut from the extended Seven services.

scandia101

07-01-2008, 08:25 AM

Well, the waiting is over, Channel Seven and TiVo had their media launch today and the TiVo is definitely subscription free here, with a list price of AU$699, (roughly the same in US$, give or take a buck or two) for the equivalent of a TiVoHD.

"This is the only place in the world where you can buy a TiVo box without a subscription," he said.[/INDENT]
Cheers
Ron

I think maybe that Tivo should explain the deal. It seems jacked up that people in the US have to pay the monthly fee and others do not.
1st people in the us don't have to pay a monthly fee - lifetime is an option. It may have been off the table for a year and a half, but it's available now and you can't compare the past here vs the present there.
2nd - we pay up to $200 less for the same thing.

Subscription free Tivo HD equivalent = $699
Full retail for a Tivo Hd is $299 + non MSD lifetime of $399 = $698
A Tivo HD can be had for $199 + MSD lifetime of $299 = $498

Or would you really rather spend more and get your service through a third party?

ZeoTiVo

07-01-2008, 08:51 AM

lessd

07-01-2008, 04:29 PM

yep. they are just trying out the idea of selling the box for one price with no confusing service plans.

No idea what else is available down there but it is a different market and a one price box may do very well there if no cheap monthly box is competing with them

I think TiVo should have done the same thing in the US, one reason not to is that retailers like Best Buy get a % of list price so the net (to Best Buy) on a $299 TiVo-HD may be say $200, but they would need a net of $400 on a sale of $598 (that includes the Lifetime Service) so TiVo would get only $200 extra for the Lifetime Service part, now they get at least $299. Just a guess on my part, also you would have the sales tax issue as most states would charge full tax on the retail price, in CT that would be 6% or about $36, but TiVo only has to charge 1% CT sales tax on the Lifetime Service part now. (don't ask me why CT sales tax is only 1% on TiVo Lifetime Service as i don't know)

scandia101

07-01-2008, 06:32 PM

I think TiVo should have done the same thing in the US,

ReplayTV tried that. Look where they ended up.

lessd

07-01-2008, 07:33 PM

ReplayTV tried that. Look where they ended up.

Was RePlay TV as sophisticated as TiVo in programing TV shows like new episodes only etc.??

scandia101

07-01-2008, 08:04 PM

yes

magnus

07-01-2008, 09:56 PM

Ok, thanks for pointing that out (after the fact). :rolleyes:

1st people in the us don't have to pay a monthly fee - lifetime is an option. It may have been off the table for a year and a half, but it's available now and you can't compare the past here vs the present there.
2nd - we pay up to $200 less for the same thing.

Subscription free Tivo HD equivalent = $699
Full retail for a Tivo Hd is $299 + non MSD lifetime of $399 = $698
A Tivo HD can be had for $199 + MSD lifetime of $299 = $498

Or would you really rather spend more and get your service through a third party?

parzec

07-01-2008, 10:14 PM

As a lifetime subsciber, I would be happy to see Tivo offer service for free. IMHO Ever since they started inserting ads into every possible place on the Tivo interface the service should have been offered for free. Tivo is no longer about advertisement skipping, it is about time-shifting, and Tivo has supplanted the real-time advertisers as a vehicle for advertising. As such, the advertisers on Tivo should bear the costs of the service. I only hope that the USA isn't the last market to evolve into this very rational business model.

ZeoTiVo

07-01-2008, 10:36 PM

the Australia deal is not really free, just a payment oflifetime at box purchase

magnus

07-01-2008, 10:40 PM

And that is my point exactly.

As a lifetime subsciber, I would be happy to see Tivo offer service for free. IMHO Ever since they started inserting ads into every possible place on the Tivo interface the service should have been offered for free. Tivo is no longer about advertisement skipping, it is about time-shifting, and Tivo has supplanted the real-time advertisers as a vehicle for advertising. As such, the advertisers on Tivo should bear the costs of the service. I only hope that the USA isn't the last market to evolve into this very rational business model.

scandia101

07-01-2008, 10:54 PM

Tivo is no longer about advertisement skipping, it is about time-shifting,

Do you really think that people bought their Tivos so that they could skip ads rather than so that they can record something and watch it later?

I'd bet good money that the vast majority of users only consider ad skipping to be an added bonus beyond the time shifting that lead them to buy it in the first place.

mattack

07-02-2008, 09:42 PM

Do you really think that people bought their Tivos so that they could skip ads rather than so that they can record something and watch it later?

I'd bet good money that the vast majority of users only consider ad skipping to be an added bonus beyond the time shifting that lead them to buy it in the first place.

I guess I don't fit into your 'vast majority' idea. I bought my Tivos to be a more efficient way to time shift *AND* skip ads, compared to VCRs. (I was using VCRs to skip most ads since the late 80s/early 90s.. and one Tivo essentially replaces a VCR + VCP, since you can watch
something else.)

As much as I like Tivo (and I really really do), I still use my non-Tivo hard drive/DVD recorder every day, and deal with manual recordings on it (though I tend to also record stuff *from* the tivos to it fairly often).

RonDawg

07-03-2008, 04:15 AM

As much as I like Tivo (and I really really do), I still use my non-Tivo hard drive/DVD recorder every day, and deal with manual recordings on it (though I tend to also record stuff *from* the tivos to it fairly often).

I own two such pieces of electronics, and nowadays they get almost no use other than as a DVD player, or to watch content still stored on their hard drives.

I used to use them a lot, but TTG/MRV made them largely redundant, especially when that feature was enabled on my TiVoHD.

As far as recording content, they are only used for programs that are copy-protected since these won't transfer via TTG/MRV.

mattack

07-03-2008, 09:17 PM

I own two such pieces of electronics, and nowadays they get almost no use other than as a DVD player, or to watch content still stored on their hard drives.

Well, I record some things to DVD(*), but a feature I use a LOT (and I realize I tout this a lot in other posts) is the ability to play at faster-than-real time with sound. I don't do it for any normal scripted shows, but for many game shows, news shows, and documentaries, I can/do watch either large segments or sometimes the full thing at faster-than-real-time with sound.
I have to skip back once in a while to catch something I didn't hear, but overall I still "save" a lot of time. (I realize I'm vegging & watching TV, and of course some people consider all of that a waste of time, but they wouldn't be here..) If I play it with CC on in the S3, I almost never have to skip back since I can just use the captions for anything I missed (if it covers all of the dialog, which it usually does)..

and again, I do this all unattended, so it's not like I'm literally there spending hours recording and re-recording the same show on multiple recorders.

(I did see in an ad for a Sony DVD player that a feature mentioned was variable play speed with sound -- so this feature may be getting wider adoption.)

Turtleboy

07-03-2008, 09:46 PM

I love the "wah, other people are paying a different price than I do" posts.

No mention of a class action law suite yet though.

jsmeeker

07-03-2008, 09:48 PM

I love the "wah, other people are paying a different price than I do" posts.

They better never get on an airplane or stay at a hotel.

scandia101

07-03-2008, 09:58 PM

I love the "wah, other people are paying a different price than I do" posts.

No mention of a class action law suite yet though.

Can anyone name a US product/service that we don't pay more for than customers in other countries do?

Turtleboy

07-03-2008, 10:05 PM

Can anyone name a US product/service that we don't pay more for than customers in other countries do?

What do you mean by a US product service?

There are a lot of things cheaper in the US than they are in other countries.

Gas for one; but I'm not sure that's what you meant.

magnus

07-03-2008, 10:35 PM

I like the let's point out the wah posts because people in the US do not like to pay for others to get free service.

Yep, I know it's not quite free but part of my point is that it could be. So, here in the US and elsewhere... Tivo could change their business model.

Tivo could offer a free service by using advertising to make the service free.

If you don't want all the advertising then you could pay for the monthly service (or lifetime). If you don't pay for service then you would get all the advertising that Tivo and their partners want to send your way.

I love the "wah, other people are paying a different price than I do" posts.

No mention of a class action law suite yet though.

pomerlp

07-04-2008, 07:32 AM

<off topic>

OH MY GOD. Can I invest in an Australian bank? I'm serious.

By "no-risk", I presume you mean the equivalent of FDIC insured.
</off topic>

Funny you should mention that. I got this email about some company in Austrailia that needs a place to put their funds in American banks and I would get to keep 11% of their deposits. All I had to do was give all my personal information, bank account, etc.

Of course I jumped on this oportunity!:rolleyes:

Maybe now I'll move to Austrailia as well for free TiVo!:rolleyes:

restart88

07-04-2008, 08:14 AM

In the US, TiVo offers music and movie downloads, sharing of digital photo libraries with personal computers and access to social networking sites and online video channels.

The head of Seven's hybrid TV services, Mark Hughes, said TiVo Australia's line-up would match that offered in the US.

Sounds like they could just tack on a lifetime cost upfront as others have suggested and still be wildly popular. I think in the US as a startup the aim was to get as many boxes in homes as possible, so then came the push for lower up front costs. Now we have higher subscriptions for additional units right about the time the new boxes came out without any DBS capability. And remember that Tivo DID gave away some boxes here and there in the US and quite a few a few years ago out in California, I think. Heck I got a 540 for free just for 1 year of prepaid service.

But now Tivo has name recognition. Add that name value to what it can do that nobody else apparently is offering there plus figuring the currency exchange difference and now this strategy might not be so dumb as you might think at first glance. That's of course only if the cost of a lifetime sub figured in can keep the service going even when new units hit the wall of diminishing marginal returns, which is starting to become the case here in the States between competitive DVR services and the die hard Tivo users migrating to lifetime over time.

classicsat

07-04-2008, 08:39 AM

Can anyone name a US product/service that we don't pay more for than customers in other countries do?

Local telephone service. At least for USA/Canada. Most of the rest of the world charges per minute for local calls, we can call local for free (or more accurately for a flat fee).

Gas is cheaper because of taxes.

pomerlp

07-04-2008, 09:19 AM

Gas is cheaper because of taxes.

Kind of off topic but I swear I remember talking to someone from Europe at least 20 years ago saying how they had to pay 4.00 a gallon for gas (equivalent).

scandia101

07-04-2008, 04:09 PM

Local telephone service. At least for USA/Canada. Most of the rest of the world charges per minute for local calls, we can call local for free (or more accurately for a flat fee).

Gas is cheaper because of taxes.

How much US phone service is being used in other countries?
How much gasoline does the US ship to other countries?

gastrof

07-05-2008, 12:16 AM

...Tivo could offer a free service by using advertising to make the service free.

If you don't want all the advertising then you could pay for the monthly service (or lifetime). If you don't pay for service then you would get all the advertising that Tivo and their partners want to send your way.

Or, TiVo could do exactly what they're doing, and end up getting income both from making all users (or most...heh heh) pay, PLUS getting money for the ads they put on the screen.

Let's see....

Make money with an either/or setup, or make money from both sources at the same time...

Which might they choose....? :p

magnus

07-05-2008, 12:54 AM

Yes, they could be that short sighted. They could choose to get money on both ends now.... or they could choose to capture the market entirely.

How do you think Microsoft got so big? It was not because they had a superior product... they were just good at making us need them.

If you go to college campuses... do you think that they are paying full price for MS software???... no they are not. Bill gives considerable discounts to students. Now why would he do such a thing??? ... you have to make them need you.... and he does a very good job of marketing that.

Could Tivo take over the market??? Well, yes they could but they will need to think big picture... not small potatoes.

Or, TiVo could do exactly what they're doing, and end up getting income both from making all users (or most...heh heh) pay, PLUS getting money for the ads they put on the screen.

Let's see....

Make money with an either/or setup, or make money from both sources at the same time...

Which might they choose....? :p

richsadams

11-09-2008, 08:17 AM

From: Aussie TiVo users to bleep, bloop and ding their way to pizza (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/09/aussie-tivo-users-to-bleep-bloop-and-ding-their-way-to-pizza/)

Nothing crosses borders like couch potato culture, and according to the linked report, Australian TiVos will get the power to order pizza right through the device in 2009. But that's not all -- TiVos down under are reportedly getting access to all sorts of third-party online offers, including a movie store with (gasp) more than 100 titles. To kick things off, users will get free access to the library from next week until March. We're all for the patient TiVo buyers down under getting increased functionality (just like the US), but we'll stick to a laptop for picking out our toppings, thanks.

gastrof

11-11-2008, 12:02 AM

Oooh! Over 100 titles! I'm sure Australian video stores are sweating over this one. :rolleyes:

I know...

It's just getting rolling.

I wonder, tho', how all this affects the Ozzies who'd been running their own TiVo service using machines from the UK and ones from the States that'd been converted to work in Australia? (Long before there even WAS TiVo service in Oz.)

Did they have to shut down their guide data source, or are 'Oz TiVo' and 'Nu Oz TiVo' running side by side?