Using my un-subbed HD DirecTIVO

[varneyb]

I am still apalled that DirecTV can get away with turning off the manual OTA record function on my DTV HDTivo. This would be akin to GE disabling the record button on my VCR if I didn't pay for an extended warranty.

Is there any way to re-enable the OTA manual record capability (record by time and channel)? This is not a service, it's a capability the hardware has internally.

HOW CAN THEY GET AWAY WITH TURNING THIS OFF!!!

Bruce

:mad:

[JimSpence]

Each sat tuner is paired with an OTA tuner, therefore the unit requires a sat subscription to enable the OTA tuner.

[stevel]

You could make the same argument about standalone TiVos - the hardware has the capability, but you can't record without service (with some exceptions.) In both cases, the hardware is only part of the package and the price of the hardware is artificially lowered with the assumption that you'll buy the service.

In any event, when you bought the HR10, it was stated at the time that DVR service was required to record.

[classicsat]

This is not a service, it's a capability the hardware has internally.


No it is a software feature. It already records at the hardware level, so to speak. At a software level it is decided if the recording is the Live TV buffer or a Now Playing recording, and as such, that "recording" is part of the subscription features.

Enabling that software feature without subscription is considered theft of services.

[snickerrrrs]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it won't record without the guide so you need to pay for the guide (Directv dvr service) right?. Or an I missing something? (seriously did I miss the point)?

[schaeferp]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it won't record without the guide so you need to pay for the guide (Directv dvr service) right?. Or an I missing something? (seriously did I miss the point)?Dish Network has the same restriction. You can record with the OTA tuner but only live tv. The guide for the OTA locals is tied to the sat locals so without the sat locals it isn't much of a DVR.

Like a VCR without a timer function.

[varneyb]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it won't record without the guide so you need to pay for the guide (Directv dvr service) right?. Or an I missing something? (seriously did I miss the point)?

You should be able to record by time and channel without the guide.

[varneyb]

No it is a software feature. It already records at the hardware level, so to speak. At a software level it is decided if the recording is the Live TV buffer or a Now Playing recording, and as such, that "recording" is part of the subscription features.

Enabling that software feature without subscription is considered theft of services.

That's just plain silly. Using the capabilities of the box to record by time and channel is not theft of service. NO SERVICE IS REQUIRED. I don't need guide data, I don't need anything transmitted over the satellite. I simply want to use my Tivo like a programmable VCR.

This doesn't require anything out of DirecTV. There is no good reason for them to shut off this capability except for spite.

[varneyb]

In both cases, the hardware is only part of the package and the price of the hardware is artificially lowered with the assumption that you'll buy the service.

I paid $600 for my hardware (and commited to over $700 in programming), and less than 18 months later, DTV announced plans to make my hardware obsolete and tried to get me to pay several hundred dollars more and commit to over $900 in programming for a new HD-DVR.

They got MUCH MORE than their money's worth out of me! Then they tried to extort more money out of me. When I didn't buckle to that, they removed a capability from my box which requires no outlay on their part to use out of spite.

THE HARDWARE IS MINE. I PAID FOR IT. IF I WANT TO RUN SOFTWARE ON IT SO THAT IT CAN RECORD OTA SHOWS BY TIME AND CHANNEL, THAT IS NOT SERVICE THEFT.

Bruce

[schaeferp]

I paid $600 for my hardware (and commited to over $700 in programming), and less than 18 months later, DTV announced plans to make my hardware obsolete and tried to get me to pay several hundred dollars more and commit to over $900 in programming for a new HD-DVR.

They got MUCH MORE than their money's worth out of me! Then they tried to extort more money out of me. When I didn't buckle to that, they removed a capability from my box which requires no outlay on their part to use out of spite.

THE HARDWARE IS MINE. I PAID FOR IT. IF I WANT TO RUN SOFTWARE ON IT SO THAT IT CAN RECORD OTA SHOWS BY TIME AND CHANNEL, THAT IS NOT SERVICE THEFT.

BruceI agree 100% that we should be able to record all the OTA we want. Unfortunately the guide info which is absolutely necessary is under control of the providers. Perhaps after the digital change over local stations will tramsmit a guide info data stream. The providers such as Directv ,Dish, Tivo and Comcast will fight it. But perhaps the government will issue a ruling saying The locals can transmit guide info if it is even possible.

[schaeferp]

You should be able to record by time and channel without the guide.Yes you should. As long as YOU know whats on. Without guide info most of the DVR functions wont work such as search and season passes etc.

[mr.unnatural]

I paid $600 for my hardware (and commited to over $700 in programming), and less than 18 months later, DTV announced plans to make my hardware obsolete and tried to get me to pay several hundred dollars more and commit to over $900 in programming for a new HD-DVR.

They got MUCH MORE than their money's worth out of me! Then they tried to extort more money out of me. When I didn't buckle to that, they removed a capability from my box which requires no outlay on their part to use out of spite.

THE HARDWARE IS MINE. I PAID FOR IT. IF I WANT TO RUN SOFTWARE ON IT SO THAT IT CAN RECORD OTA SHOWS BY TIME AND CHANNEL, THAT IS NOT SERVICE THEFT.

Bruce
I feel your pain but DirecTV will give you an HR20 or HR21 under a leased plan for no upfront cost if you own an HR10-250 HDTivo. The only cost to you is the DVR fee and the monthly lease fee, which is exactly the same as what you had been paying with your HDTivo. I paid over $900 apiece for my first two HDTivos so I know exactly where you're coming from. The hardware may be yours but the software is copyrighted and you do not own it. You pay a monthly service fee for the right to use it. If you don't pay the fee then you're SOL. You obviously didn't read the service agreement when you activated your HDTivo because your argument doesn't hold water. You can always change providers if you don't like the service (I did:D).

I agree 100% that we should be able to record all the OTA we want. Unfortunately the guide info which is absolutely necessary is under control of the providers. Perhaps after the digital change over local stations will tramsmit a guide info data stream. The providers such as Directv ,Dish, Tivo and Comcast will fight it. But perhaps the government will issue a ruling saying The locals can transmit guide info if it is even possible.
The guide data doesn't cost you anything. You can connect your HDTivo to a dish and get all the guide data you want at no charge. You can also watch all the free OTA HD channels you want using the built-in ATSC tuners. You just can't record anything. What you're paying for is the DVR service, which is basically a fee that's paid to Tivo that allows you to use their software. DirecTV collects the fees and pays Tivo a royalty for using the Tivo software on their boxes. It's the whole reason DirecTV dropped Tivo in favor of their own DVRs. Why pay someone a royalty when you can keep the fees all to yourself?

FYI - you can record all the OTA HD channels you want for no monthly fees. You just can't do it with a Tivo. I built an HTPC with six ATSC tuners and I receive more HD locals than DirecTV will ever offer me since I live near two major markets (DTV will only give you one market; they also don't provide all of my market's locals in mpeg4). I get free guide data and access to all my locals that I can record with my HTPC. Aside from the initial outlay for the hardware, I pay zero monthly fees.

[keepthewebopen]

Perhaps after the digital change over local stations will tramsmit a guide info data stream. The providers such as Directv ,Dish, Tivo and Comcast will fight it. But perhaps the government will issue a ruling saying The locals can transmit guide info if it is even possible.

Why would free channels enable their viewers to undermine the business model by providing quality guide data?

[classicsat]

Correct me if I'm wrong but it won't record without the guide so you need to pay for the guide (Directv dvr service) right?. Or an I missing something? (seriously did I miss the point)?

It is a tier bit on the card that enables the subbed TiVo features, guide data or not.

[classicsat]

That's just plain silly. Using the capabilities of the box to record by time and channel is not theft of service.

It is the software you will be using, and as such that feature in TiVo software requires subscription. As silly as that may seem, it is simply the way it is. If you have a problem with that, take it up with TiVo and/or DirecTV.

If you want to write your own software for the TiVo box, go ahead, but to date, nobody has, or at least publically has.

[classicsat]

Perhaps after the digital change over local stations will tramsmit a guide info data stream.

They do, to some degree in PSIP, and I believe TVGOS has a version in the digital stream. Still, it doesn't eliminate the fact the TiVo needs subscribed to record.

[varneyb]

I agree 100% that we should be able to record all the OTA we want. Unfortunately the guide info which is absolutely necessary is under control of the providers.

I don't need guide data. Just let me record by time and channel. That's all I ask.

Bruce

[varneyb]

I feel your pain but DirecTV will give you an HR20 or HR21 under a leased plan for no upfront cost if you own an HR10-250 HDTivo. The only cost to you is the DVR fee and the monthly lease fee, which is exactly the same as what you had been paying with your HDTivo.

When I was looking into it, they would not give me an HR20/21 for free. I had to pay an upfront cost, and would not own it. In addition, I could no longer subscribe to my existing package; I had to move to a more expensive package that would have cost me $15 more a month to not lose anything that I had. Then I had to commit to 1 year of service. I fail to see how any of that is a good deal.

The hardware may be yours but the software is copyrighted and you do not own it.

The operating system is not (and cannot be) copyrighted since it is based on Linux. What I'm looking for is whether anyone has written software to allow for recording by time and channel.


Bruce

[classicsat]

The operatings system itself may be open source, but the tivo software proper is closed private software, licensed on the condition you pay for its full use, or use a drastically reduced function set which discludes any and all recording features.

You basically have 3 options to record.
1: Pay for the DVR service.
2: Modify the existing software to enable the recording features. That is considered theft of services, so you will get no help on that here or other places that respect TiVo's service..
3: Write your own DVR software from the ground up, to replace the proprietary closed TiVo software. Good luck on that one.

[mr.unnatural]

When I was looking into it, they would not give me an HR20/21 for free. I had to pay an upfront cost, and would not own it. In addition, I could no longer subscribe to my existing package; I had to move to a more expensive package that would have cost me $15 more a month to not lose anything that I had. Then I had to commit to 1 year of service. I fail to see how any of that is a good deal.


FYI, I never said it was a good deal, just that it was available. If you've read through any threads on the topic in these forums you'd know that getting the best deals from DirecTV usually involves playing CSR roulette (i.e., keep calling back until one of them offers you the deal you want). I dropped DirecTV in favor of FIOS over a year ago and never regretted it. I got tired of DirecTV's policies, upfront costs, commitments, and diminishing customer service. FIOS also had the best picture quality available at the time for HD programming, but that was before DirecTV's mpeg4 satellites went online. I still think FIOS has the best picture next to OTA HD, although DirecTV's mpeg4 may look pretty close. I just got word that FIOS will be going all digital in July and will be adding more HD channels so DirecTV's edge in the number of HD channel offerings will quickly start to disappear once that happens.

[JimSpence]

I am getting tired of the comparison of DirecTV with FIOS.
Why? Because FIOS isn't available everywhere.

[mr.unnatural]

I am getting tired of the comparison of DirecTV with FIOS.
Why? Because FIOS isn't available everywhere.
Sorry if we're boring you but if you haven't seen FIOS then you don't know what you're missing. Perhaps it is a bit unfair to keep mentioning FIOS since it is not available everywhere but it is an alternative for those of us that have it available in our area. Many people can't get DirecTV or Dish due to LOS issues but they don't bitch just because everyone else talks about it. I get tired of hearing people gripe about certain installation services because they don't service our area but from what I've heard I guess I should be grateful. There are lots of topics that are beat to death here but most of us have learned to simply ignore them and move on. Life's too short to spend it complaining about things we have no control over.:D

[snickerrrrs]

Plug your HR10-250 back in connect it to the satellite then call Directv and have them activate it. After a month unplug it then have them suspend it. Unless the software can turn the OTA manual recording off by itself (I don't know the answer to that one) in theory you should be good to go.

[drill]

Plug your HR10-250 back in connect it to the satellite then call Directv and have them activate it. After a month unplug it then have them suspend it. Unless the software can turn the OTA manual recording off by itself (I don't know the answer to that one) in theory you should be good to go.

i don't think it works like that. when you subscribe, directv sends a signal to the receiver to turn on the DVR features. that signal essentially turns into a "ticket" that gets written to the access card. the "ticket" expires. i think the "tickets" usually last a couple of weeks. while you are subscribed, directv regularly (every week or so) sends you a new ticket. once you unsubscribe, or disconnect from the sat, all the tickets will eventually expire. then your DVR no-worky anymore.

[jmw86069]

That "ticket" for some people doesn't expire for months, but I don't know any good way to tell.

My big problem now is that I live in the Raleigh-Durham market where OTA CBS causes it to reboot almost daily. Thus the "card-switcheroo" trick is really tedious and impractical. (Remove card, Connect to sat, wait for reboot, disconnect, add card, record OTA.) I can't do that at a moment's notice, and thus I miss recordings all the time.

I do think there's something to the original contract which I find unlawful and at the very least "false advertising." They said "requires DVR subscription" right? Why are they requiring basic satellite service, plus DVR, plus HD? I'd LOVE to pay only $9.99/mo for DVR. I don't see why they can require sat channels, nor charge for HD channels they're not providing.

To what legal forum do I take such a complaint? (I'm going to start with my US Congressmen/women...)

[classicsat]

Consult a lawyer first, to scrutinize the contract to make sue they are/aren't breaking the law.

IMO, They can at least require satellite service, since the DVR service is a feature of their satellite service.

[JimSpence]

Sorry if we're boring you but if you haven't seen FIOS then you don't know what you're missing. Perhaps it is a bit unfair to keep mentioning FIOS since it is not available everywhere but it is an alternative for those of us that have it available in our area. Many people can't get DirecTV or Dish due to LOS issues but they don't bitch just because everyone else talks about it. I get tired of hearing people gripe about certain installation services because they don't service our area but from what I've heard I guess I should be grateful. There are lots of topics that are beat to death here but most of us have learned to simply ignore them and move on. Life's too short to spend it complaining about things we have no control over.:DNot bored, but this thread started out as a discussion of recording OTA on an HR10 without subscription. It's also in the DirecTV Receiver with TiVo forum.