Tivo now Spamming the "Now Playing List"

[keypwds]

Hello,
Been a long time lurker, just never responded. Thought this was interesting enough to post.

Woke up this morning to find 2 duplicate Spam Programs in my Now Playing List and contacted TiVo about this issue. I don't really have issue with advertising on their pages, but is seems once they start sending these to your now playing list it is basically "SPAM" in it's finest sense. Further their management does not seem to understand the impact this may have on their service, nor do they feel they have any obligation to their customers who do not wish to be exposed to this portion and simply quoted their policy for which it is covered under number 13.

I for one thought I would take it upon myself to post on their forum as well as this one to let them know that I will hold it not only against them but their advertisers in doing so. If they feel it is not that big of a deal, then I guess there is no harm in pointing it out to potential customers.

Just curious what long time TiVo subscribers think of this, as I have only had the service for about 2 years. In one bad business decision on their part, they have taken me from a extremely pleased customer to one that now wonders how far they will take this at the expense of their customer base. Upon speaking to them, they did not seem to see the nature of the advertisement as similar to getting spam e-mails in your inbox. Nor would they give any indication as to the amount I could expect. I questioned whether my existing shows would delete, for which they indicated they had a separate partition on the drive, but had no details to the amount. To do so in an effort to offer a free service is one thing, to do so in a paid service is entirely different.

If the moderators feel this is inappropriate or simply "An axe to grind" on my part, feel free to delete and treat it as such. Can certainly see how it could be deemed as such right out of the box with my massive post history of "1". It was really not my intent, however I do feel because of the nature that it is something that can be fixed by word of mouth by their customer base. Being this forum is more prevalent in the nature of their business than their own, it seemed appropriate. Something that obviously my phone call was taken lightly, maybe response from their customer base will be more effective.



"It is amazing that TiVo service now feels that you should pay for a service that SPAM's your Now playing list. Woke up this morning to find that TiVo now feels you are not reading their adds enough, so they will simply send them to your Now Playing List. I for one will now never buy a "SubZero Dream Kitchen" in the same sense that I would not buy one if they sent two identical e-mails to my e-mail address. One wasn't good enough, they felt I needed a duplicate as well. This is classic Spam, and the sad part is that upon talking to TiVo Management, they are of the opinion that this is a valuable asset that I would want to pay for as part of the service. They don't seem to understand that the reason people will usually deal with adds such as this, is they are getting a free service.

I guess when they begin losing customers left and right, they will be more apt to search for the reason why people do not usually want to pay for advertisements.

I figured this is obviously a valid on their part, so my conditions where that I would make it a point to stress how they feel and post an update on their forum as well as TiVo Community stressing how wonderful it is that SubZero, or the "Spam of the day" wants to push their product on me. Maybe their advertisers will be interested to know how much the TiVo membership appreciates the Spam when I hold it against them. Since TiVo feels justified in doing so under their Policies.

Thanks TiVo, will be certain to hold it against your advertisers. They want to put it on the Tivo Central is one thing, this is just ridiculous."

[sathead]

...Nor do they feel they have any obligation to their customers who do not wish to be exposed to this portion and simply quoted they policy for which it is covered under number 13.
Interesting, could you post details of "number 13"?
Thanks...

[JimSpence]

Just what do you think your subscription rate would be without these advertisers?

[MickeS]

This has been discussed extensively in other threads. I think they crossed the line by including ads in the Now Playing list, but they don't bother me enough to take action. In fact, I don't even notice them anymore (which can't be good for business).

[ah30k]

For the love of God, can we please lock this thread and simply provide a hyperlink to the 1500 previous posts on this topic? I'll look for that thread.

[keypwds]

Interesting, could you post details of "number 13"?
Thanks...

13. Advertising and Promotions. The TiVo service is advertiser supported. The hard disk drive of your TiVo DVR contains reserved space in addition to the advertised recording capacity. TiVo reserves the right to send content (including advertising and promotional material) to such reserved portions of your TiVo DVR's hard disk drive as part of the TiVo service. In order to send such content, you agree that TiVo may tune your TiVo DVR to a particular channel at a particular time.

From Here:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoserviceagreement.html

[ah30k]

Here you go [
Now the ads are p***ing me off (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=376771)] read till your heart is content.

[keypwds]

Just what do you think your subscription rate would be without these advertisers?
I understand the business philosophy behind the advertisements on their Pages, however I think the ramifications on doing so in the Play List is an entirely different manner.

I see that others indicate this is common in the past and there where many other threads. I did do a brief search, but did not go back more than a few days. In 2 years, this was the first instance where they actually sent these through the Now Playing List. I assumed this was brand new, as it was to me. If this is "Old Hat", it was news to me and I apologize.

[keypwds]

Just to be clear, I am not referring to advertisements on the page, in the options menu, on the program control.

I am referring to actual shows downloaded into my Play list that is a several minute advertisement video. Is this only new to me?

edit 1 - they show up as any other show. I thought it was something I mistakenly recorded.

[gonzotek]

Just to be clear, I am not referring to advertisements on the page, in the options menu, on the program control.

I am referring to actual shows downloaded into my Play list that is a several minute advertisement video. Is this only new to me?

edit 1 - they show up as any other show. I thought it was something I mistakenly recorded.If there is a star in front of the Now Playing List entry, like this:
http://www.pvrblog.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/26/tivospam.jpgthen it is old news.

If not, can you please be more specific about what shows up where and when?


* If the image doesn't show, then try its source at this link:
http://www.pvrblog.com/pvr/2008/01/tivo-spamming-y.html

[sathead]

13. Advertising and Promotions. The TiVo service is advertiser supported. The hard disk drive of your TiVo DVR contains reserved space in addition to the advertised recording capacity. TiVo reserves the right to send content (including advertising and promotional material) to such reserved portions of your TiVo DVR's hard disk drive as part of the TiVo service. In order to send such content, you agree that TiVo may tune your TiVo DVR to a particular channel at a particular time.

From Here:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoserviceagreement.html
Don't really see how this helps your case.
I'm not happy with additional advertising, but I'd certainly rather see a one line plug for an item on the "now playing" list then have someone over at TiVo change the channel on my DVR whenever they choose. If they ever do the later, I'd cancel immediately!

Anyway, I've always had issues with lines like "what do you think your subscription rate would be without these advertisers?". In TiVo's case, I couldn't imagine they'd get very much to push a one line ad to the NPL of TiVo subs. Even if they got say $20k to run the ad to (I'm guessing here) 5-6 million TiVo subs, that's less then 1/2 a cent per subscriber. Even if they got a new advertiser every other day, that would be maybe a 7 cents subsidy per subscriber per month. Cant recall last time TiVo raised their rates 7 cents/month. More than lowering subscription rates- it simply comes down to "get $$ any way you can" to help the business prosper.

[keypwds]

If not, can you please be more specific about what shows up where and when?

It shows as simply a normal show, no star, has day of week as well as date.
You click on it and it opens like any other show, has the detail, time, date, etc. I don't sort by groups as you did, but if I do they show up under a folder entitled "Product Watch" It is already downloaded to the box like any Tivocast show but with no detail on the far right for network, which brings up one of the other reasons I have a problem with this concept. I don't feel they are justified sending data through my network, tying up my system without approval in doing so. Just my IT background I guess. If I click on a button, download from amazon, what have you, great.
Don't really see how this helps your case.
It doesn't, just provided the info as requested. I asked them to show me where this was agreed upon, that was their response. Did they cover their bases, yes. Are they justified? If I get a call from my provider saying I exceed my Internet bandwidth and they are canning my service because they send me 200mb of data a day on top of what I already download (maybe more should they decide 2 a day is not enough and they have 20 advertisers that want to get the word out)? Yeah, I know, that's a stretch for my circumstance, but not to say it couldn't come into play for many. Look at the recent news for Comcast



edit 1 - another example, these also show up on TiVoplaylist and desktop, although are blocked as any other downloaded show. You have to delete them, and they go to the recyle bin. Probably should have waited a day to post and I'm guessing many more will see what I mean. I guess I was just a little peeved after having talked to TiVO and the originally lady try to play it stupid until she admit this was now policy. Image from TiVoplaylist attached

[keypwds]

Here's a photo

[gonzotek]

It shows as simply a normal show, no star, has day of week as well as date.
You click on it and it opens like any other show, has the detail, time, date, etc. I don't sort by groups as you did, but if I do they show up under a folder entitled "Product Watch" It is already downloaded to the box like any Tivocast show but with no detail on the far right for network, which brings up one of the other reasons I have a problem with this concept. I don't feel they are justified sending data through my network, tying up my system without approval in doing so. Just my IT background I guess. If I click on a button, download from amazon, what have you, great.
Now we're getting somewhere. "Product Watch" is an opt-in service. Someone in your household should have requested these downloads.
2006 Product Watch Press Release:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/pressroom/pressreleases/2006/pr2006-05-08.html

Product Watch informational article:
http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/interactwithadvertising/howto_download_product_videos.html

If you follow the steps listed in the second link, you should be able to go into the Product Watch app on your TiVo and determine which categories or brands you've subscribed to and unsubscribe from them. If nothing has been selected, you may be experiencing an error that hasn't occurred to other forum members yet. Please let us know if the Product Watch app does not indicate that something is set to download. If no one in your household asked for PW content, then this would be the first report I've personally seen where the content is being downloaded unrequested, and I'd tentatively label it a (bad) bug, not a deliberate attempt to spam.

I agree that downloading large amounts of unrequested data would be a terrible thing for TiVo to do. I doubt that they would do such a thing on purpose for a variety of reasons, the primary one being that bandwidth costs them money too, and unless they were guaranteed to make more back than it cost to send, there simply wouldn't be any business reason to force this on their users.

[sathead]

13. Advertising and Promotions. The TiVo service is advertiser supported. The hard disk drive of your TiVo DVR contains reserved space in addition to the advertised recording capacity. TiVo reserves the right to send content (including advertising and promotional material) to such reserved portions of your TiVo DVR's hard disk drive as part of the TiVo service. In order to send such content, you agree that TiVo may tune your TiVo DVR to a particular channel at a particular time.

Don't really see how this helps your case.

It doesn't, just provided the info as requested. I asked them to show me where this was agreed upon, that was their response. Did they cover their bases, yes.
Ok, thanks. I thought you were using #13 to support your argument.
Like you said... they covered their bases, so they got us! You do have a valid point if you pay for internet use by volume and they're pushing unsolicited ads to you at your expense.

[GoHokies!]

Don't really see how this helps your case.
I'm not happy with additional advertising, but I'd certainly rather see a one line plug for an item on the "now playing" list then have someone over at TiVo change the channel on my DVR whenever they choose. If they ever do the later, I'd cancel immediately!Do a search on "teleworld", and be prepared to call Tivo and cancel (Tivo has been doing this for years).

[gonzotek]

Don't really see how this helps your case.
I'm not happy with additional advertising, but I'd certainly rather see a one line plug for an item on the "now playing" list then have someone over at TiVo change the channel on my DVR whenever they choose. If they ever do the later, I'd cancel immediately!

Do a search on "teleworld", and be prepared to call Tivo and cancel (Tivo has been doing this for years).Any user-initiated recording requests will silently override a planned teleworld recording. ie. If you've got a season pass, wishlist, or manual recording for the same time as a teleworld program, the TiVo will record what you asked it to and not the teleworld program.
The TiVo will prompt before changing the channel to record the teleworld program, and if you're watching live tv and not recording at one of those times, you can opt to continue watching what you want.

[ZeoTiVo]

Here's a photo

if you turn on folders you will see this came from productWatch. I had one show up recently as well. Think a car company.

Seems like some old requests just got processed.

I would assume this to be an error until I find out otherwise

[keypwds]

Now we're getting somewhere. "Product Watch" is an opt-in service. Someone in your household should have requested these downloads.
Much appreciated Gonzotek.

I will certainly admit when I was wrong, and did find the section to which you referred. My initial thought was maybe I subscribed to some Tivocast, but when I went through and saw nothing related, then saw that it was also the add bar for the day on the bottom of TiVo Central screen I was kind of set back and the reason I called TiVo. Then after speaking with the initial person and then a supervisor, who for whatever reason both confirmed they were sending the information as part of an advertisement, I kinda went ballistic. Probably just misunderstood when I was saying I didn't mind adds, but didn't want them in my Now Playing list.

I guess I am glad I took the time to post, even though I now feel like an idiot. Kinda strange, because my wife doesn't touch any of the other things, and I vaguely remember going into the Music, Photos, or Showcases section when I signed up, and now mainly stick the the Tivocasts and downloads. Kinda surprised this is the first time I got something like this in almost 2 years, unless maybe my wife or I changed it through and add on one of the screens unknowingly.

I guess I should be updating the TiVo Forum to what an idiot I am. As I said before, this is usually the only I go to for information.

Sorry to all for the confusion, while I would like to be able to blame TiVo's customer support for not helping me out, I can't help but think they were probably just thinking about the normal adds. While I had a pretty good understanding, enough to know this was a little different, and really don't mind the normal adds, this seemed a little extreme to my liking.

Well, now that I have broken the silence, maybe I should stick around. I love the forum but have held off on posting because they have a tendency of being time consuming, as I almost always have some sort of opinion. :D

Thanks again, and thank you for once again making me happy with TiVo. As I said, I have always been extremely happy with the service, and was really wondering what I was going to do with myself if I had decided to cancel out of principle.

edit 1 - actually kinda interesting because I have never seen the add you linked in my Now playing List (the ones with the star), only ever see them in Tivo Central Menu. Possibly because I sort by date and do not do so by group, or maybe related to the device or OS I use?

[keypwds]

Went to update the TiVo forum, however it would appear they deleted the thread. I guess it was deemed unrelated to support issues. Guess I will e-mail them back a link to this thread to let them know it was related.

[MickeS]

I got one of the "Product Watch" updates a little while ago too. Funny, I have not seen any activity there in ages, and all of a sudden something showed up, I too couldn't figure out what it was and why I had it at first.

[gonzotek]

Much appreciated Gonzotek.
.....
edit 1 - actually kinda interesting because I have never seen the add you linked in my Now playing List (the ones with the star), only ever see them in Tivo Central Menu. Possibly because I sort by date and do not do so by group, or maybe related to the device or OS I use?No problem, and please don't feel like an idiot. From the sound of the other posters, ZeoTiVo and MickeS, you or your wife may have done this quite a while ago. It'd be nice if they had an icon like an Unbox download does, and possibly some textual indication of what it is as well. It would certainly help the support people to understand what a customer is talking about and respond more appropriately.

I'm pretty sure the star ads are only shown when grouping is used.

[ZeoTiVo]

edit 1 - actually kinda interesting because I have never seen the add you linked in my Now playing List (the ones with the star), only ever see them in Tivo Central Menu. Possibly because I sort by date and do not do so by group, or maybe related to the device or OS I use?

Gonzotek is correct
it is because you do not use folders, the yellow stars will only show up inside a folder for a targeted show .

[davezatz]

Interesting, I had assumed Product Watch was dead... Though, I was told differently by a TiVo advertising rep at a recent event in NYC. Interesting tidbit - TiVo is really trying to toe the line here, and told me they will only accept original content and of a certain length, so no rebroadcasts of existing commercials.

[ZeoTiVo]

Interesting, I had assumed Product Watch was dead... Though, I was told differently by a TiVo advertising rep at a recent event in NYC. Interesting tidbit - TiVo is really trying to toe the line here, and told me they will only accept original content and of a certain length, so no rebroadcasts of existing commercials.
Loved that early Penn and Teller one for Ford. Come on Madison Avenue - wake up

[GoHokies!]

Any user-initiated recording requests will silently override a planned teleworld recording. ie. If you've got a season pass, wishlist, or manual recording for the same time as a teleworld program, the TiVo will record what you asked it to and not the teleworld program.
The TiVo will prompt before changing the channel to record the teleworld program, and if you're watching live tv and not recording at one of those times, you can opt to continue watching what you want.I'm well aware of that, thanks. The fact is that lots of people get worked up over it, even though it is about as non intrusive as it can possibly be.

[RoyK]

Any user-initiated recording requests will silently override a planned teleworld recording. ie. If you've got a season pass, wishlist, or manual recording for the same time as a teleworld program, the TiVo will record what you asked it to and not the teleworld program.
The TiVo will prompt before changing the channel to record the teleworld program, and if you're watching live tv and not recording at one of those times, you can opt to continue watching what you want.

Teleworld programming can be searched for in the Find Programs menu. You can view upcoming episodes and cancel the pending recordings. It's one of my Saturday morning rituals.

[Budget_HT]

Much appreciated Gonzotek.

I will certainly admit when I was wrong, and did find the section to which you referred. My initial thought was maybe I subscribed to some Tivocast, but when I went through and saw nothing related, then saw that it was also the add bar for the day on the bottom of TiVo Central screen I was kind of set back and the reason I called TiVo. Then after speaking with the initial person and then a supervisor, who for whatever reason both confirmed they were sending the information as part of an advertisement, I kinda went ballistic. Probably just misunderstood when I was saying I didn't mind adds, but didn't want them in my Now Playing list.

I guess I am glad I took the time to post, even though I now feel like an idiot. Kinda strange, because my wife doesn't touch any of the other things, and I vaguely remember going into the Music, Photos, or Showcases section when I signed up, and now mainly stick the the Tivocasts and downloads. Kinda surprised this is the first time I got something like this in almost 2 years, unless maybe my wife or I changed it through and add on one of the screens unknowingly.

I guess I should be updating the TiVo Forum to what an idiot I am. As I said before, this is usually the only I go to for information.

Sorry to all for the confusion, while I would like to be able to blame TiVo's customer support for not helping me out, I can't help but think they were probably just thinking about the normal adds. While I had a pretty good understanding, enough to know this was a little different, and really don't mind the normal adds, this seemed a little extreme to my liking.

Well, now that I have broken the silence, maybe I should stick around. I love the forum but have held off on posting because they have a tendency of being time consuming, as I almost always have some sort of opinion. :D

Thanks again, and thank you for once again making me happy with TiVo. As I said, I have always been extremely happy with the service, and was really wondering what I was going to do with myself if I had decided to cancel out of principle.

edit 1 - actually kinda interesting because I have never seen the add you linked in my Now playing List (the ones with the star), only ever see them in Tivo Central Menu. Possibly because I sort by date and do not do so by group, or maybe related to the device or OS I use?

No idiot there!

Realize that you have related an experience that might help other folks through the same experience. Experiences and opinions are what make up this forum. We don't have to agree with everything we read, but we should be able to learn something--good to try or bad to avoid--from nearly every sincere post here.

Welcome to the talking side of the forum. Your input will be valued.

[mattack]

Teleworld programming can be searched for in the Find Programs menu. You can view upcoming episodes and cancel the pending recordings. It's one of my Saturday morning rituals.

What's the point? Your recordings will always take priority over the Teleworld recordings.
They're recorded to a reserved portion of the hard drive. So I can't see any reason why one would go through the bother... except if you REALLY want the tuner to stay on a certain channel so the buffer is full. (Though I think for the Teleworld recordings it DOES go back to the orig channel.. so unless you're getting up during or within 30 mins of the Teleworld recording, it still doesn't seem to make sense.)

It's kind of like deleting items in the Recently Deleted folder.. Generally there's no point. (The *one* time I do it is to delete very short recordings, e.g. failed transfers, so that I can then assume that the Recently Deleted folder is entirely full shows in my guesstimate of free space.)

[magnus]

I still say that Tivo should recycle as it were... the old S1 and S2 boxes. These boxes could be kept out of the landfills and could be put to good use. The boxes would be open to all sorts of advertising and could be sponsored by whoever Tivo partners with.

Oh, and the service would be free because it would be paid for by advertising.

Those people paying for service would only get showcases and the main ad. No ads in NPL or anywhere else.

[RoyK]

What's the point? Your recordings will always ...

The point is that I had my box change channels on me early one morning right in the middle of a news program in order to record one of the Teleworld ads while I was in the kitchen making coffee but still listening to the program. That ticked me off. This is NOT TV My Way!

I, like many others, am often up and around during the time frame that the Teleworld programming is scheduled and I will NOT put up with TiVo mucking with my box in order to stuff ads on it if there is anything I can do to stop it. Its stupid to be forced to hit the record button in order to be assured that you aren't interrupted while watching live tv. Fortunately the scheduled recordings can be cancelled in advance. That is the best available option for me.

[NotVeryWitty]

For the love of God, can we please lock this thread and simply provide a hyperlink to the 1500 previous posts on this topic? I'll look for that thread.
Thankfully for the OP, your request was ignored. Had the thread been locked, the OP would most likely have remained upset with Tivo.

[sathead]

Do a search on "teleworld", and be prepared to call Tivo and cancel (Tivo has been doing this for years).
I've had my TiVo HD since Jan 7th 2008 and honestly have never heard of "teleworld", have never seen "teleworld" and have never had my TiVo change channels on me. Maybe because of my viewing habits... I almost never watch anything live. 99% of what I watch is pre-recorded by the TiVo.

[GoHokies!]

That's why I said what I did - the Tivo is doing exactly what you said "changing the channel when Tivo wants it to" and you weren't even aware of it (as are most people).

It's usually in the early, early morning when nothing else is on and the TV time is cheap. ;)

[sathead]

That's why I said what I did - the Tivo is doing exactly what you said "changing the channel when Tivo wants it to" and you weren't even aware of it (as are most people).

It's usually in the early, early morning when nothing else is on and the TV time is cheap. ;)
Interesting....
If a TiVo changes channels in a forest :D

[mattack]

The point is that I had my box change channels on me early one morning right in the middle of a news program in order to record one of the Teleworld ads while I was in the kitchen making coffee but still listening to the program. That ticked me off. This is NOT TV My Way!

You hadn't used the remote control in ~30 minutes presumably, so it changed channels.

You weren't watching the screen, so you didn't see the 'can I change the channel?' prompt.

You should have just hit record if you absolutely wanted to prevent it from recording a show.

Do you have suggestions turned off too? one of those could have changed channels too.

[steve614]

Teleworld programming can be searched for in the Find Programs menu. You can view upcoming episodes and cancel the pending recordings. It's one of my Saturday morning rituals.

YMMV. In my area, nothing comes up searching for Teleworld.
Here, all paid programming is listed as "paid programming" in the guide. Go figure. :rolleyes:

[aadam101]

Just what do you think your subscription rate would be without these advertisers?

The same as what I was paying circa 2000.......adjusted for inflation of course.:)

[RoyK]

You hadn't used the remote control in ~30 minutes presumably, so it changed channels.
Yes it did

You weren't watching the screen, so you didn't see the 'can I change the channel?' prompt.
Correct.


You should have just hit record if you absolutely wanted to prevent it from recording a show.
Say What? :D

You think that every time I sit down to watch live TV in the early morning I should hit the record button just in case TiVo wants to record some ad? That's nuts. Much easier to just cancel the upcoming recordings of Teleworld every once in a while and retain control of my box.

Do you have suggestions turned off too? one of those could have changed channels too.
Yes suggestions are turned off.

[bigray327]

Time for the OP to change the title of this thread.

[GoHokies!]

Interesting....
If a TiVo changes channels in a forest :D

RoyK gets pissed off. :D

Seriously - the workaround for this one is so easy that it's pointless to get worked up over it.

[keypwds]

Time for the OP to change the title of this thread.
Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't see an option to do so. Unless this forum is different than most I have participated on, I think the normal user only has the option to edit the post, but not to change the title. That is something that can only be accomplished by a moderator or administrator.

Should they choose to do so and deem necessary, I certainly have no problem with that option.

edit 1 - although in doing so, it may prove less beneficial to others searching for a result to a similar issue???

[RoyK]

Your title is absolutely on point.

[ZeoTiVo]

Please correct me if I am wrong. I don't see an option to do so.
Bigray was just being sarcastic about the wander off topic into the teleworld stuff. you are correct that users can not change thread titles and mods here rarely change them and only for some specific reason like a misleading typo or what not.

No worries and hope we keep seeing your input on the forum :up:

[keypwds]

:)
Thanks for the heads up