How to use digital adapter with FIOS and Series 2"

[jklinken]

The Sticky FAQ: How does the Feb 2009 digital over-the-air transition affect my Tivo? (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=392361)indicates that a Series 2 can control a cable box, which I didn’t know it could do. I just received a Verizon letter yesterday that says they are switching Fios to all digital here in Maryland on July 21 2008. I ordered a digital adapter from them with the hope that it will work with my Tivo series 2, which I use for lower analog channels only. To satisfy my own curiosity, I would really like to know how the Tivo can control the digital adapter and if I need any special connections between the Tivo and the digital adapter, or do I just continue to use coax to hook everything up. Can anyone enlighten me?

[ZeoTiVo]

I do not have FIOS myself but TiVo uses either an IR cable to send the same signal as a remore to the cable box or some cable boxes support a Serial cbale connection. Both types of cables come with a Series 2 TiVo DVR or else you can get them at the TiVo store or from the forum sponsors here if you do not have them.

Hopefully someone with FIOS will be along soon enough to detail which specific cable will work

[classicsat]

The "Digital Adapter" is just a DCT 700 cable box. You connect A/V from it to the A/V in on your TiVo (RF from the wall to the DA's RF input). You use the IR cable to control the DA, choosing Motorola codes. It has no serial control; to get serial, you have to upgrade to a QIP series box.

[jklinken]

Thanks for the info. The connections sound straight forward...

RF/coax---> DCT700---A/V----> Tivo ---> TV

But what is an IR cable? Is that something that comes with the Digital Adapter (cable box)?

[sinanju]

But what is an IR cable? Is that something that comes with the Digital Adapter (cable box)?

No. It's something that came with your TiVo. It lets the TiVo send IR remote control commands to the cable box to change the channel. One end plugs into the TiVo and the other end has two LED transmitters that stick onto the box, pointing back at the IR receiver in the face of the box.

It looks like this (https://www3.tivo.com/assets/images/buytivo/products/tivogear/accessories/IR%20control%20cable/full_ircontrolcable.jpg).

[jklinken]

Ahh! Now it makes sense. I looked in my old Tivo box and found the IR cable and I also found the serial cable. So it sounds like if I used my QIP2500 STB that I'm renting from Verizon with the serial cable, it would work to control the Tivo series 2?

[wmcbrine]

So it sounds like if I used my QIP2500 STB that I'm renting from Verizon with the serial cable, it would work to control the Tivo series 2?Other way round.

[ah30k]

I just made the switch from the QIP2500 to the digital adapter. I called the Digital Conversion phone number to order my free adapters. I got three so they don't seem to be too worried about the quantity. Note that if you order digital adapters without calling the Digital Conversion phone number they will charge you $2.99 (or $3.99, I forget) per month. You need to use the IR blaster since the DCT-700 has no serial port. Once I got the free adapters, I mailed the QIPs back using the pre-paid UPS labels that came with my digital adapter.

I don't think they intended to give away free adapters to people trading in QIPs but I am going to try. No need for a QIP with a TiVo since the VOD and interactive guide aren't used.

[jklinken]

I just hooked up the QIP2500 to the Tivo S2 using the serial cable, ran through the setup, and all appears to be working. When I get my 3 free digital adapters, I'll try returning my other 2 QIPs as well. I'm thrilled that I can still use my old Tivo and now I can get all my digital channels (just no HD) - not just the few analog on the lower channels that I used to. Thanks everyone for the help. This forum rocks.

[GDogg]

(Maryland - Verizon in FIOS in Howard County is going all digital) I received my FIOS digital adapters (Motorola DCT700) last night and hooked one up dedicated to Tivo. I already have the FIOS HD DVR but it fills up very quickly when I record HD, so I figured my lifetimed series 2 (320G drive) with a dedicated digital adapter would work great for standard definition recording.

Hookup was straightforward RF cables -> DCT700 -> RCA plug Video Cables (red/white/yellow) -> Tivo. Then plug in DCT700 and activate with Verizon which took about 15 minutes from website.

Installed IR blaster from Tivo to right front corner of DCT 700 and went to Settings-Channels-Channel Changing which kicked me into a guided setup sequence. I chose Cable Box and selected "General Instruments" as the type. Had to go through a few iterations of "Did the channel change" but everything worked fine.

Finally had to put a light shield over the DCT700 & IR blaster emitters because the remote for the FIOS HD DVR was conflicting with it.

Channel changing is slow but I don't plan to watch any live TV through the Tivo, only standard definition recorded programming.

[mn2]

Hello,

We have FIOS (with STB) and a Series 2. Last week, FIOS went all digital and there is nothing coming through on either Tivo tuner.

Are people saying that if you get the free digital converter, the Series 2 will work again? I'm getting confused with some of the lingo. Thanks for the patience.

[wmcbrine]

Channel changing is slow but I don't plan to watch any live TV through the Tivo, only standard definition recorded programming.I've noticed that the channel changing can go awry if I'm doing something else at the time, like coming out of an HME app and waiting for the MP&M menu to repopulate. Other than that, it works well, if slowly.

I hope I can combine this with a CECB (mainly for Baltimore channels) once TiVo supports that -- preferably with the DCT700 on the composite in and the CECB on the RF in.

[GoHokies!]

Hello,

We have FIOS (with STB) and a Series 2. Last week, FIOS went all digital and there is nothing coming through on either Tivo tuner.

Are people saying that if you get the free digital converter, the Series 2 will work again? I'm getting confused with some of the lingo. Thanks for the patience.
Yes.

You should have gotten a letter months ago offering you a digital adapter for free. Call up Fios and ask for as many as you need, and they'll send them out.

[classicsat]

The "digital adapter" FIOS provides is just a basic digital cable box (it offers none of the interactive services that the QIP boxes offer). You will set it up with your TiVo as if it were a cable box with any other provider.

[bmgoodman]

So FIOS is dropping all analog channels? This means that the S2 dual tuner boxes effectively become single tuner boxes as they can only control a single cable box, right? And every TV, VCR, etc. that lacks a digital tuner will require a box to operate? :down::down::down:

[ah30k]

So FIOS is dropping all analog channels? This means that the S2 dual tuner boxes effectively become single tuner boxes as they can only control a single cable box, right? And every TV, VCR, etc. that lacks a digital tuner will require a box to operate? :down::down::down:Welcome to 2008.

[wmcbrine]

So FIOS is dropping all analog channels?Yes, and it's a good thing. Every dropped analog means the potential for at least two more HD channels. And their analog lineup was already minimal.

:down::down::down:
No, :up::up::up:.

[bmgoodman]

Welcome to 2008.

You say this like it is a foregone conclusion. I'm well aware of the over-the-air conversion to digital, but there is no requirement for either the cable company or Verizon to drop analog completely after February 2009. Sure, it frees some bandwidth, but it forces everyone to replace otherwise functional equipment or be married to a "cable" box. A dual tuner Series 2 Tivo loses half its tuners. A VCR becomes nearly useless (yeah, I know that is how most Tivo owners already view them:D). Besides, I thought FiOS had loads of bandwidth already, so why the problem? Finally, don't forget seniors on fixed incomes who cannot afford to upgrade everything and get confused by the added complexity of more gadgets.

[GoHokies!]

You say this like it is a foregone conclusion. I'm well aware of the over-the-air conversion to digital, but there is no requirement for either the cable company or Verizon to drop analog completely after February 2009. Sure, it frees some bandwidth, but it forces everyone to replace otherwise functional equipment or be married to a "cable" box. A dual tuner Series 2 Tivo loses half its tuners. A VCR becomes nearly useless (yeah, I know that is how most Tivo owners already view them:D). Besides, I thought FiOS had loads of bandwidth already, so why the problem? Finally, don't forget seniors on fixed incomes who cannot afford to upgrade everything and get confused by the added complexity of more gadgets.True, but it's a well publicized fact that Verizon's been planning this for a long time. Once analog is gone, Verizon is supposed to be dropping a boatload of new HD channels on Fios subscribers.

IMO, analog can't be gone fast enough.

Edit to add: Here's a list of rumored HD channels that will be added when analog is removed:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/05/08/26-new-hd-channels-for-fios-tv-by-the-end-of-july/

[bmgoodman]

Thanks, GoHokies, for the information. I had not been following FiOS closely at all as it is not available in my area. I only looked at this thread because one of my elderly relatives is leaving Comcast for Verizon FiOS, and only because Verizon offered her a cheaper bundle than she was paying for phone/cable already. She didn't realize that her dual tuner Tivo would become a single tuner model or that her old TV wouldn't work without a box. (I told her she'd be able to tune 49 channels with any old TV, but looks like I'm only going to be right for a few more weeks.)

[GoHokies!]

She will be able to get a DCT 700 for free, but yeah, that doesn't help the single tuner issue. :(

[greggt007]

thanks for the info! i called fios up yesterday, and got it today, nice, and the guy on the phone said i could only get one free adapter and each additional was $3/mo. so i only got the one! i guess i'll try calling again to get a second..

[GoHokies!]

Have you gotten a letter about going all digital? In there it gives a number to the special "Go digital" call center (I think the number is even 888-go-digital), I called last night and had no problem with having 3 sent out, I should get them next week.

[ah30k]

I've yet to confirm that all three of mine are free, but the CSR said they would be.

BTW, these DCT700s throw off some crazy heat for being all digital!! Now that the warm weather is here the heat is more noticeable.

[bmgoodman]

She will be able to get a DCT 700 for free, but yeah, that doesn't help the single tuner issue. :(

I found out today she canceled her FiOS order because of the box issue. She didn't want to be stuck to a single tuner. The strange thing was that she told the customer service rep she was canceling because they were droppping analog stations. The rep's response was that was "completely false information". I guess the "well publicized fact" didn't reach this particular rep. :D

[Martinator]

I found out today she canceled her FiOS order because of the box issue. She didn't want to be stuck to a single tuner. The strange thing was that she told the customer service rep she was canceling because they were droppping analog stations. The rep's response was that was "completely false information". I guess the "well publicized fact" didn't reach this particular rep. :D


Well, they weren't "Dropping" the stations, they were just being broadcast in digital instead...

[Martinator]

What gets me is that Tivo, knowing full well that TV will switch over to Digital in 2009 anyway, didn't put Digital Tuners in their latest boxes. I got my DT less than an year ago and now it is just a single tuner Tivo now that Verizon FIOS is now all digital in my area.

That sucks and I think it is Tivo's fault and not Verizons.

[classicsat]

They did put digital tuners in the latest boxes; The Series 3 and TiVo HD.

The Series 2 DT is fully compliant (to the word), with FCCs requirements WRT the digital broadcast transition, in that it has no OTA tuners at all, so can get by without a digital tuner.

Verizion turning off analog channels has nothing to do with the DTV transition.

TiVo has not changed how their Series 2 DT works, Verizon changed how their system works. The blame lies solely in Verizon's hands.

[Martinator]

All right, so you have a Verizon STB and you have your Tivo Series 2 DT plugged into it with a serial cable. But now Verizon is all digital. Probably for most of you that means when you switch to a Basic Cable channel, you get that nifty "Verizon has Gone Digital" screen.

That's a problem if you have your Tivo set to record something like the "Lost" finale and you discovered you got 2 hours of the Verizon Message.

Seems like getting one of those free Digital Tuners doesn't really help your DT become a DT again. Adding the "Free Digital Tuner" to your Tivo DT will not restore it to being a Dual Tuner Tivo from what I have read on the board (Please, please, please correct me if I am wrong!) That sucks, Tivo should have known better.

So what to do? Why can't I switch to a Basic Channel with my Tivo Remote?

I've got your answer!!!

In the Tivo menu, go to:

Messages & Settings > Settings > Channels > Channel List

You can see that the basic cable channels that are listed are listed twice. some are checked, some aren't. The Basic channels that are checked are probably labeled CBL, the ones that aren't checked, BOX.

The labels tell the Tivo what source to tune the channel from.

Are you starting to catch my drift?

Uncheck the BASIC cable channels marked as CBL, and check the BASIC cable channels marked as BOX.

[Martinator]

They did put digital tuners in the latest boxes; The
TiVo has not changed how their Series 2 DT works, Verizon changed how their system works. The blame lies solely in Verizon's hands.

I just joined this board so I don't want to get into a flame war right away (that's so 90's)

Tivo knew, as well as many TV manufactures, that broadcasts were going all digital in 2009 (Verizon just happened to do it in 2008.) for quite a while. The government mandated this switchover way back in the mid-late 90's. The original switchover date was supposed to be 12/31/2006. So Tivo should have had the foresight to add Digital Tuners to their Series 2 boxes. At least the later model Series 2 boxes that hit the shelves in the past couple of years.

The box I bought less than a year ago should not be obsolete already. That puts a bad taste in my mouth regarding Tivo. Verizon is just doing what was mandated by law in ~1996.

[wmcbrine]

Well, they weren't "Dropping" the stations, they were just being broadcast in digital instead...They ARE dropping the analogs. The digital equivalents have been there all along, and are what you see if you use a TiVo HD/S3, or one of Verizon's boxes. On these devices, the digital version of the channel is mapped over the analog, so you never see the analog version. (This is known as "analog/digital simulcast".) In other words, there used to be a channel 4 analog, AND a channel 4 digital; now, there will only be the channel 4 digital.

[GoHokies!]

What gets me is that Tivo, knowing full well that TV will switch over to Digital in 2009 anyway, didn't put Digital Tuners in their latest boxes. I got my DT less than an year ago and now it is just a single tuner Tivo now that Verizon FIOS is now all digital in my area.

That sucks and I think it is Tivo's fault and not Verizons.The digital tuners for the FCC mandated 2009 cutoff would be worthless on Verizon. Verizon's change to all digital is completely unrelated to the 2009 changeover, which is analog only. You really would be well served learning some of the details of what you're talking about before wildly going off assigning blame where it doesn't belong.


All right, so you have a Verizon STB and you have your Tivo Series 2 DT plugged into it with a serial cable. But now Verizon is all digital. Probably for most of you that means when you switch to a Basic Cable channel, you get that nifty "Verizon has Gone Digital" screen.

That's a problem if you have your Tivo set to record something like the "Lost" finale and you discovered you got 2 hours of the Verizon Message.

Seems like getting one of those free Digital Tuners doesn't really help your DT become a DT again. Adding the "Free Digital Tuner" to your Tivo DT will not restore it to being a Dual Tuner Tivo from what I have read on the board (Please, please, please correct me if I am wrong!) That sucks, Tivo should have known better.

So what to do? Why can't I switch to a Basic Channel with my Tivo Remote?

I've got your answer!!!

In the Tivo menu, go to:

Messages & Settings > Settings > Channels > Channel List

You can see that the basic cable channels that are listed are listed twice. some are checked, some aren't. The Basic channels that are checked are probably labeled CBL, the ones that aren't checked, BOX.

The labels tell the Tivo what source to tune the channel from.

Are you starting to catch my drift?

Uncheck the BASIC cable channels marked as CBL, and check the BASIC cable channels marked as BOX.

Or you just redo guided setup, tell it that you're cable box only, acknowledge the warning that you're going to be in single tuner only mode, and get on with things.

Also, if you've missed all the warnings from Verizon about how going all digital is going to remove your ability to just plug coax into a TV (or Tivo) and go, then you deserve 2 hours of the "You're an idiot" screen.

[Martinator]

The digital tuners for the FCC mandated 2009 cutoff would be worthless on Verizon. Verizon's change to all digital is completely unrelated to the 2009 changeover, which is analog only. You really would be well served learning some of the details of what you're talking about before wildly going off assigning blame where it doesn't belong.

I'm not the only one thinking that Tivo should have incorporated Digital tuners in their boxes:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/25/tivo-series2-dt-hands-on-review/


Or you just redo guided setup, tell it that you're cable box only, acknowledge the warning that you're going to be in single tuner only mode, and get on with things.

That's a good tip. I'll try that also. Thanks.

Also, if you've missed all the warnings from Verizon about how going all digital is going to remove your ability to just plug coax into a TV (or Tivo) and go, then you deserve 2 hours of the "You're an idiot" screen.

I saw the warnings. I didn't Tivo the idiot message. I just described a possible scenario.

[GoHokies!]

I'm not the only one thinking that Tivo should have incorporated Digital tuners in their boxes:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/25/tivo-series2-dt-hands-on-review/Dude, that review is over 2 years old. In 2005/2006 when this box was being designed, digital cable was nowhere near where it is now, so the extreme cost (at the time) wasn't worth the limited return at the time.

Fast forward almost 3 years from when these design decisions were made and the tuners are less expensive, having digital is much more important, and go figure, Tivo has offered a box that includes digital tuners for almost 2 years. I just described a possible scenario.Just a highly unlikely one.

[Martinator]

Dude, that review is over 2 years old. In 2005/2006 when this box was being designed, digital cable was nowhere near where it is now, so the extreme cost (at the time) wasn't worth the limited return at the time.

But the roadmap for where broadcasts and digital cable were headed was quite visible. The 3 year old article even said that the lack of a digital tuner was shortsighted.

Fast forward almost 3 years from when these design decisions were made and the tuners are less expensive, having digital is much more important, and go figure, Tivo has offered a box that includes digital tuners for almost 2 years.

Then why didn't they put them in all their boxes that were being sold/manufactured within the past year. I don't have an HDTV, and I don't plan on getting one anytime soon. I can't justify the expense when: my house needs to be painted, the deck needs to be repaired, the wife is taking a year off from work to take care of my special needs child, etc.

So dropping ~$1000 for an HD Tivo was not an option at the time.

Tivo is still selling these DT boxes without Digital Tuners knowing full well that they will be obsolete within a year or so.


Again, that for the tip on converting my DT to a single tuner. That was a helpful answer to a question I could not find on Tivo's sight. That is why I came to this board in the first place.

And just like any newbie to a board, I ranted and railed and bitched about my problem. At least I didn't post yet another theory about who is the final Cylon...

[GoHokies!]

Because at that point in the road map, digital was an expensive addition that wasn't going to be all that well utilized. The reviewer was just as wrong when he wrote it. To do what you wanted, the box would have had to be significantly more expensive, and later to market at a time when the all single tuner Tivos were getting killed by the dual tuner SA8300 and the like.

Then why didn't they put them in all their boxes that were being sold/manufactured within the past year. I don't have an HDTVThey are, in boxes that were designed more recently. What's wrong with continuing to sell older designs that still work for a lot of people?

Tivo is still selling these DT boxes without Digital Tuners knowing full well that they will be obsolete within a year or so.Only obsolete for people that use Verizon FiOS - you're conflating the Verizon switchover with the FCC mandated OTA switchover. The "well publicized roadmap" that you're talking about is completely irrelevant to the S2DT, because it was never designed, intended or able to be used with an OTA antenna. The entire part of Tivo's product line designed for OTA use (with the possible exception of the S1) is going to be able to tune digital channels before the FCC mandated cutoff.

In your (and my) case, when you bought the DT, you should have known that if your cable company went all digital, that the box would be rendered a single tuner. When I went to FiOS, I did the research and knew that going all digital was a possibility, and that I would potentially lose the use of one of the tuners (just like there's a very real possibility that Verizon is going to go all IPTV in the future, and my $800 S3 will likely not work anymore). In all these cases, I did the research and made an informed decision about where to go and what to buy.

Again, that for the tip on converting my DT to a single tuner. That was a helpful answer to a question I could not find on Tivo's sight. That is why I came to this board in the first place.Glad that helped - I wasn't looking forward to manually getting the channels set right, so I was happy to discover that when I was setting up my DCT 700 Tuesday night (and your post was really well timed) :).

[Martinator]

Glad that helped - I wasn't looking forward to manually getting the channels set right, so I was happy to discover that when I was setting up my DCT 700 Tuesday night (and your post was really well timed) :).


Timing is everything. :)

Have a good one!

L8R...

[StuffOfInterest]

Decided to dust off an old thread here.

I'm getting ready to switch from cable (Cox in Northern Virginia) to FiOS. I'm still using a TiVo Series 2 DT and don't plan to change too soon as I have a lifetime and I'm not really in a position right now for the cash outlay to get a TiVo HD and another lifetime. To keep the S2DT running, it looks like I have two options under FiOS.

The first option is to use the Motorola DCT-700 Digital Adapter ($3.99/mo) with the TiVo IR blaster. The second option is to use the Motorola QIP-2500 ($5.99/mo) with a serial cable. I know both will reduce me to single tuner functionality, but I can live with that as there will be other recording options in the house.

Can anyone confirm that either or both of these options still work? I'd hate to get bit because either TiVo or Verizoin changed something in the last year. I'm particularly curious on the serial control option as I'd glady pay an extra $2/month to avoid relying on the IR blaster.

Thanks for any insight.

Edit:

One more question. Being that Verizon was giving away DCT-700 boxes last year when they eliminated Analog service, has anyone tried to find and/or buy one of these off of eBay? Not sure if Verizon was requiring their return if a subscriber stopped using one of the free boxes. If so, that could make for a good deal to keep my S2 running.

[wmcbrine]

Certainly, they still work, and there is no reason to expect this to change. At most, Verizon might conceivably disable the serial port (though I have no reason to expect it), but the IR blaster will always work -- if it didn't, then the remote control wouldn't work, either.

The free DCT-700's still have to be authorized to your account, so you won't be able to use one from eBay. (I suppose it might work for the unencrypted channels, but I wouldn't bet on it. Of course any clear QAM tuner will work for those.)