Series 3 Issue: Tivo tells me, sorry, just wait

[kevinwmurray]

I just got off the phone with a level 3 service agent at Tivo and they are telling me the issue i am having is affecting all Series 3 Tivos that take cable cards and they are trying to figure it out and to wait.

The Issue: All the graphics and menus are blank on what should be Tivo Central with the exception of the little Tivo man in the upper left hand corner.
If you unplug the cable coax, and reboot it looks and acts normal, but no live TV obviously.

i expalned that I have same unit in the living room and it is fine. They will not switch boxes out and are telling me to wait a few weeks?
Im case # 8884582 if anyone else is being told this.

:mad:

[moyekj]

they are telling me the issue i am having is affecting all Series 3 Tivos that take cable cards Obviously that is a load of bull or Tivo and/or these forums would be flooded with people having the same problem. I have 2 S3s with 4 S-cards and have not had any issues thus far with 9.3a software.

[maharg18]

I concur, sounds like bull to me. Never had any trouble like that on my S3.

[snitm]

I concur, sounds like bull to me. Never had any trouble like that on my S3.

Its not bull, I'm getting the very same run around with Tivo. Many others are too. Tivo is having serious problems with the coax causing the Tivo to hang.

You guys must be living under a rock. TCF has had quite a bit of traffic on this issue.

[moyekj]

My problem was with the contention that this issue is "affecting all Series 3 Tivos that take cable cards". Obviously that's not true. I realize the issue is affecting some/many users posting here, but it's not an issue that everyone is seeing.

[djwilso]

My problem was with the contention that this issue is "affecting all Series 3 Tivos that take cable cards". Obviously that's not true. I realize the issue is affecting some/many users posting here, but it's not an issue that everyone is seeing.Agreed. No issue here with my S3 and 2 cablecards. All is working fine at the moment (and hope it stays that way...).

[Sadara]

While it may not be all S3 owners out there, it is effecting at least some S3s out there. Mine was one of them.

[lrhorer]

While it may not be all S3 owners out there, it is effecting at least some S3s out there. Mine was one of them.
There's a big difference between "Some" and "All". I'm not havng trouble with either of my S3 TiVos or my TiVo HD.

[maharg18]

Its not bull, I'm getting the very same run around with Tivo. Many others are too. Tivo is having serious problems with the coax causing the Tivo to hang.

You guys must be living under a rock. TCF has had quite a bit of traffic on this issue.

What I meant was, what the customer service person said was bull.

[JcarD]

Here's the TIVO scam............

The Series 3 does not work in certain markets due to cablecard/software incompatibility issues. In my experience, the cablecards fail after about 3 weeks. I was losing my service about every 72 hours and unplugging the unit and rebooting will correct the problem a few times before you have to get different cablecards.

I purchased my Series 3 from TCS in Feb 08. I was told that Cox Cable was the problem and I swapped out cablecards 4 times. TIVO then agreed to swap my unit for a "refurbed" unit that they said would work. It failed 4 days after the cablecards were installed. Now after about 30 minutes, the picture begins to pixelate and the eventually freezes.

I called TIVO today and demanded my money back. They cancelled my sub but said that I can not return the unit because it is not the original unit that I purchased and I am outside the 30 day window.

Lesson: If your TIVO HD doesn't work properly right out of the box, return it immediately.

[aimeedmiked]

I have a huge problem with how Tivo is handling this issue right now. They will not provide me a time frame on when this issue will be resolved. Why can they not commit to a time frame? One week, one month, a year??? I have no ideal, I have to sit and wait.

Let me try to apply this to my everyday life....
I write and install interfaces for hospital software. If I updated an interface I installed and put a bug in it to the point the interface stopped working my customers would be calling looking for a resolution. I would not be able to tell them that "I was aware of the issue, I was working on the issue however I have not time frame on when this would be fixed". They would either demand a frame or demand me to remove the update. I think my point is that it is more important to have a version of software that works then to have the "latest and greatest" version.


One question, does anyone know if Tivo's software can be rolled back? I did not have problems with the previous version.

[ZeoTiVo]

I have a huge problem with how Tivo is handling this issue right now. They will not provide me a time frame on when this issue will be resolved. Why can they not commit to a time frame? One week, one month, a year??? I have no ideal, I have to sit and wait.

Let me try to apply this to my everyday life....
I write and install interfaces for hospital software. If I updated an interface I installed and put a bug in it to the point the interface stopped working my customers would be calling looking for a resolution. I would not be able to tell them that "I was aware of the issue, I was working on the issue however I have not time frame on when this would be fixed". They would either demand a frame or demand me to remove the update. I think my point is that it is more important to have a version of software that works then to have the "latest and greatest" version.


One question, does anyone know if Tivo's software can be rolled back? I did not have problems with the previous version.


OK - so what if the problem only showed up in Hospitals in AZ that used some COX cable gizmo on the other side of the interface and you would have to work with COX gizmo company to figure out what was up with their specific setup and your interface. What timeframe would you put around that?
What if the interface was a large new feature that EVERY hospital was using and backing out the update would cause all the other 49 states to loose that finctionality they found critical to using your software?

[vittoria]

I've only had my S3 installed since April 13th, and the Cable Cards installed since the 18th, but so far no issues like you're noticing. (knock on wood.)

Cablevision, Scientific Atlanta Cards, 9.3a software, if this helps.

Vickie

[lrhorer]

Here's the TIVO scam............
How is it a scam? Ad hominem remarks do not put your argument in a good light.

The Series 3 does not work in certain markets due to cablecard/software incompatibility issues.
'Unlikely. There are only three major manufacturers of digital CATV equipment, and users from all three market types are failing to see the problems you describe.

In my experience, the cablecards fail after about 3 weeks. I was losing my service about every 72 hours and unplugging the unit and rebooting will correct the problem a few times before you have to get different cablecards.
A bad batch of cards is certainly a possibility.

It failed 4 days after the cablecards were installed. Now after about 30 minutes, the picture begins to pixelate and the eventually freezes.
30 minutes of what? Watching live broadcasting? Watching pre-recorded content? After what event? Unplugging the TiVo and plugging it back in? Turning on the TV? After rebooting, does forwarding 30 minutes into the failed content produce the issue, or must you wait 30 miniutes no matter which content or where in the content you start viewing?

Lesson: If your TIVO HD doesn't work properly right out of the box, return it immediately.
Since most of the individuals experiencing problems have older TiVos, this isn't very helpful. In addition, if your reports to TiVo tech support are as sketchy and indeterminate as your posts in this forum, it's little wonder they couldn't help you. 'Not that TiVo's tech support staff doesn't leave a great deal to be desired.

[aaronwt]

I have S3 boxes from 2006 with no problems, a TiVoHD box from when they were first released and one box from a couple of months ago. 10 cable cards total. Eight with FIOS and two with Comcast. No problems for me like is being described. SO far the new software has been an excellent upgrade. I've seen nothing but a positive experience from the new software. Everything is faster and more robust.

[pcp_ip]

my S3 on Comcast is having this problem. It won't get past the THX screen without locking up. Unplug the coax and it runs fine.

[a68oliver]

I hate to ask an obvious question, but here goes.

Has anyone measured for a voltage differential between the coax and the Tivo? Many cable companies send power down the coax on the main plant to power amplifiers along the way. This voltage is supposed to be blocked on the subscriber tap so that it does not enter the house. However, there could be a problem.

Also, there could be a difference in ground potential between the Tivo and the coax. Can you see a tiny spark jump between the Tivo and the coax when you plug the two together?

It would be important to make sure that the coax enters the house through a properly grounded coax grounding block and that the electrical wireing in the house is correct with respect to hot, neutral, and ground.

Anybody check this?

[GoHokies!]

I hate to ask an obvious question, but here goes

Anybody check this?

No, why would we do that? The problem is clear with Tivo scamming us by sending out an update that disables functionality in all S3's in the known universe that hav coax attached to them. Next week they're going to offer a "paid update" to restore the functionality and Tivo is going to laugh all the way to the bank.

<sarcasm=off>

Seriously, this is a pretty good idea to check, quick, painless and free, and it just might solve the problem for some folks.

I do love it how whenever there's an issue with a Tivo, folks make it out to be "OMFG, This is the biggest problem since the Y2K transition!!!!111! I can't beleive that Tivo hasn't fixed it yet" like the problem that they are having with their individual Tivo is a matter of national security.

It's a DVR, folks - take a chill pill and calm down.

[RMBittner]

Agreed. No issue here with my S3 and 2 cablecards. All is working fine at the moment (and hope it stays that way...).

Fine here too, with my S3 and two cable cards.

Bob

[Gregor]

My S3s (one with s-cards, one with m-cards) have been installed and running for months...no issues.

[susani8]

2 S3s here, one I picked up in Nov 2006 and the other last fall (2007). The 2006 model has gone completely wonky. It hangs up on the intro screen (as previously described), reboots spontaneously every 10 to 15 minutes. I pulled the Motorola CableCards and I can now access previously recorded items, but when I pull up live programming (from an outside antenna) it again starts to freeze, pause and eventually reboot. I haven't tried unplugging the coax, though - I'll do that tonight.

S3 #2: same cable input (Comcast), 2 Motorola CableCards, updated to 9.3a and absolutely NO problems. I'm wondering if the fact that the first (and failing) S3 came out in the primary release, that the OS or something was fundamentally different than later boxes. My oldest S3 is now useless as a DVR, I'm using it to catch up on previous programs and am using my 2nd S3 to record everything (unfortunately this one is hooked up to a regular ol' SD set, and the glitchy one is hooked to my nice HD set, I might have to do some switching around - ugh!). I would also like an idea of when I might look forward to a rollback or fix!

[kevinwmurray]

All:
I wanted to post an update. I received a call form Tivo costumer service yesterday stating , "The engineers have really come through on this one, and deemed the issue as a hardware issue and they have been allowed to swap out the boxes. They gave me an RMA number, and are sending me a new box this week and I am returning my defective unit.

They told me I would not have to have Comcast (San Francisco) come back out and install my cards for me, but I hope that is the case.

Has anyone else who reported the problem with a case number recieved a cal from Tivo?

Kevin

Case Number: 8884582

[headroll]

All:
I wanted to post an update. I received a call form Tivo costumer service yesterday stating , "The engineers have really come through on this one, and deemed the issue as a hardware issue and they have been allowed to swap out the boxes. They gave me an RMA number, and are sending me a new box this week and I am returning my defective unit.

They told me I would not have to have Comcast (San Francisco) come back out and install my cards for me, but I hope that is the case.

Has anyone else who reported the problem with a case number recieved a cal from Tivo?

Kevin

Case Number: XXXXXXXXX

Called TiVo, gave them your case number, told them my address had changed. My new S3 should be delivered shortly :)

-Roll

[kevinwmurray]

awesome news!

[ZeoTiVo]

Called TiVo, gave them your case number, told them my address had changed. My new S3 should be delivered shortly :)

-Roll

Man I can not beleive they screwed up the address on my case number XXXXXXXX so badly. Good news is I caught it in time. :D

[aimeedmiked]

TiVo just called me as well. They want to replace my box but they want to give me a refurbished box. I am not going to accept a used box.

[GoHokies!]

TiVo just called me as well. They want to replace my box but they want to give me a refurbished box. I am not going to accept a used box.Why? Why should Tivo replaced your used box with a new one?

You should try reading the warranty too.

Considering the refurb that they're going to send you is going to work a hell of a lot better than the used box sitting in your house, you'd be wise to reconsider.

Funny how this didn't turn out to be a software, or a widespread cablecard problem after all, isn't it?

[aimeedmiked]

Why? Why should Tivo replaced your used box with a new one?

You should try reading the warranty too.

Considering the refurb that they're going to send you is going to work a hell of a lot better than the used box sitting in your house, you'd be wise to reconsider.

Funny how this didn't turn out to be a software, or a widespread cablecard problem after all, isn't it?

Come on! Everyone gets an update then suddenly a bunch of people start having some strange issue. It is a software issue...TiVo replacing units to buy some time because people are getting sick of no answers.

Look at this way.....they get me up and running with a used box then when they come up with the software fix they update my box then resell or use it to keep then next person happy.

Also, it funny how they do not have any new Tivo Series 3 units when all this is happening. And they have no clue when or if they are getting any new ones.

[morac]

'Unlikely. There are only three major manufacturers of digital CATV equipment, and users from all three market types are failing to see the problems you describe.

There are compatibility issues with certain combinations of cable systems, cards and TiVos. For example here's a post by TiVoJerry (http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10372477) talking about a problem with TiVos with SA M-Cards and some Cox headends. There is another post (http://forums.tivo.com/pe/action/forums/displaypost?postID=10372069) in the same thread that mentions TiVo is trying to fix compatibility issues as they find them.

The point is that there are compatibility issues that affect a subset of people.

[aimeedmiked]

I wanted to add...I only have my problem with the coaxial cable plugged in. The problem happen with and without the cable cards. So for me it doesn't seem to be an issue with the cable cards. I've had the same cable cards for a year plus.

[GoHokies!]

Come on! Everyone gets an update then suddenly a bunch of people start having some strange issue. It is a software issue...TiVo replacing units to buy some time because people are getting sick of no answers.

Look at this way.....they get me up and running with a used box then when they come up with the software fix they update my box then resell or use it to keep then next person happy.

Also, it funny how they do not have any new Tivo Series 3 units when all this is happening. And they have no clue when or if they are getting any new ones.Look out, your tinfoil hat is falling off...

If it's a software issue, what's a replacement running the exact same software going to do? What about the thousands of boxes in the wild running the exact same software that aren't having this problem?

I don't know what you think the non-existent stock of the S3 has nothing to do with this, but since it appears as though manufacturing of these boxes has been stopped (or severely slowed down) and the boxes are being discontinued, the supply has been dwindling for some time, and completely unrelated to this issue.

[JohnBrowning]

TiVo just called me as well. They want to replace my box but they want to give me a refurbished box. I am not going to accept a used box.

Then I guess you're SOL. I never understood why people get so torqued off about a refurb. Refurbs are usually tested and qualified BETTER than new units!

[MANOWAR©]

Then I guess you're SOL. I never understood why people get so torqued off about a refurb. Refurbs are usually tested and qualified BETTER than new units!

So lets say you paid for a NEW car and it had minor problem and they replaced it with a used car with unknown mileage but looked brand new. Then after your warranty expires the engine dies because the original owner beat the **** out of it but it looks ok. How happy would you be?

How do you know the original owner didn't have it closed up in a cabinet over heating and it stressed the hard drive out but it still worked?

Oh and hopefully the people testing these refurbs aren't the same ones who wrote 9.3a

[GoHokies!]

So lets say you paid for a NEW car and it had minor problem and they replaced it with a used car with unknown mileage but looked brand new. Then after your warranty expires the engine dies because the original owner beat the **** out of it but it looks ok. How happy would you be?It's a well known fact that as soon as you drive the new car off the lot it isn't "new" anymore, and its value drops by several thousand dollars.

Why should your Tivo be any different?

[MANOWAR©]

It's a well known fact that as soon as you drive the new car off the lot it isn't "new" anymore, and its value drops by several thousand dollars.

Why should your Tivo be any different?

Lets say you buy a new car and 3 weeks later the engine kills itself. They offer you a replacement USED car same year, model everything. Would you be satisfied with that? Let's go a step further. Lets say it worked great those first 3 weeks then they did a "service update" and it started acting up after that. Would a used car still be ok with you?

[GoHokies!]

You tivo isn't a car, so the analogy doesn't really work like that. There's no "wear and tear" on a Tivo - the only moving part is the hard drive. You've got a just as much a chance of getting a defective hard drive from the factory in a new Tivo as you do of getting a hard drive that has been abused in a Tivo that's been refurbed (if they don't replace the hard drives, which they very well may).

[MANOWAR©]

You tivo isn't a car, so the analogy doesn't really work like that. There's no "wear and tear" on a Tivo - the only moving part is the hard drive. You've got a just as much a chance of getting a defective hard drive from the factory in a new Tivo as you do of getting a hard drive that has been abused in a Tivo that's been refurbed (if they don't replace the hard drives, which they very well may).


Electronic components fail over time. That's why most consumer electronics have a 90 day warranty. Resistors, capacitors, diodes all can fail and the longer they have been in use and subject to heat the more likely they are to fail. It's not just the hard drive that takes the wear.

[morac]

Electronic components fail over time. That's why most consumer electronics have a 90 day warranty. Resistors, capacitors, diodes all can fail and the longer they have been in use and subject to heat the more likely they are to fail. It's not just the hard drive that takes the wear.

Actual circuit board component failure is way down on the list of problems that you are likely to have. I'd say the order of likely failure for a device would be:
1. None - most people do not keep devices around long enough to experience failures, but don't count on this.
2. Power surge or lightning - depends on where you live, but lightning is probably the biggest killer of electronic devices
3. Moving component such as hard drive or fan - Moving parts will eventually wear out, but it can take a long time. I have hard drives that I've had for over 15 years that still work.
4. Power supply - These go with a loud "pop" sound. I've had a number of these go. They can also take out other components when they go (my brother lost a hard drive and cd-rom drive when his went).
5. Circuit board component - This is way down on the list of things that can fail. It is highly unlikely you'll ever see a component failure.


That said heat can definitely cause component failure. If your TiVo is in an hot environment and your fan goes the circuit board could actually melt. Modern PC hardware have a failsafe to prevent heat damage and will power down if the temperature gets to high. Since TiVo DVRs keep track of their internal temperature, I would assume they would "shut down" (since they can't power themselves off, I'm assuming they would just shut down all the internal components such as the drive and the tuner).

[GoHokies!]

Electronic components fail over time. That's why most consumer electronics have a 90 day warranty. Resistors, capacitors, diodes all can fail and the longer they have been in use and subject to heat the more likely they are to fail. It's not just the hard drive that takes the wear.Morac beat me to it, but yeah - pretty much you're wrong.

And really, if getting a new Tivo for you (the general "you", not you in particular) is that important, Tivo doesn't make a secret about the fact. If it bugs you that much, don't buy one. But, in the grand scheme of things, there are many, many, many more pressing issues to worry about in life over than "is this capacitor 6 months old or 12 months old?".

[lrhorer]

Many cable companies send power down the coax on the main plant to power amplifiers along the way.
Many? I don't know of any CATV provider who doesn't, adn I used to be a CATV engineer. In the late 1950s and early 1960s, CATV amplifiers used 110VAC supplies and had a local power feed at every pole with an amplifier. This was expensive and inefficient, and as amplifier spans got shorter and shorter with increasing bandwidth, a different solution was required. They went to 60 volt quasi-square wave power supplies each of which feed a large number of amplifiers. I don't know of any ATV provider in the U.S. who doesn't employ this technology.

This voltage is supposed to be blocked on the subscriber tap so that it does not enter the house. However, there could be a problem.
Yes, the DC blocking capacitor could go bad. I've seen it happen. In fact, it once happened on the tap feeding my house. 'Blew the input stage of my TV.

[aimeedmiked]

I am not returning my box for a used box. I am going to wait a little while to see what happens. I did talk to a TiVo rep yesterday and they said that they were looking at the boxes that they gathered in the exchange. I still do not believe them that everyone is having a hardware issue with their box.

I happened to call Comcast to get a DVR, some how they were able to lower my bill by about 20 dollars (30 dollars for the first 3 months I have the box)and I am getting a DVR box with the TiVo service. I have to wait until Thursday but not a bad deal!

Maybe some good will come of of this after all!

[bizzy]

Come on! Everyone gets an update then suddenly a bunch of people start having some strange issue. It is a software issue...TiVo replacing units to buy some time because people are getting sick of no answers.

err. This happened to my S3 soon after 9.1 went out to people on the 'priority' page.

That was a long time ago.

I called Tivo, and they agreed with me that the disk was probably dying, and cross-shipped a replacement. It's been fine since, across all your OMG BROKEN FOR EVERYONE!! releases.

Sorry, in this case, it is not a horrible Tivo conspiracy. It's just a hardware failure.

[bizzy]

I will add that the spectrum of uninformed responses from Tivo Support on this issue should be an embarrassment to their management. Do you guys equip support with a dart board instead of a script?

Cmon Tivo; get your **** together.

[btwyx]

Electronic components fail over time. That's why most consumer electronics have a 90 day warranty. Resistors, capacitors, diodes all can fail and the longer they have been in use and subject to heat the more likely they are to fail. It's not just the hard drive that takes the wear.Electronics tend to die very quickly, or not for a long time. There's a certain percentage that will die in a burn in period, then they're very unlikely to die for a long time, like years. A refurb unit which has already gone through its burn in period is more likely to be trouble free than a new unit.

PS: My Series 3s with cable cards have been running for a total of over 2 years without any problem as described here. Its not every S3.