Unbox deleted my show!

[mazelady]

I rented a movie and downloaded. My son started to watch it (2 minutes) but I stopped him because his homework wasn't done. Later last night we go back to watch it and I see the option Keep until. I looked at the Keep until option which showed that the movie would be deleted at the end of the day yesterday. The phone rang so I left the options page up on the TV. When I got off the phone the Tivo had deleted my movie! We didn't get to watch it!

I am very angry because I paid for the movie and only had it downloaded for 2 days before it deleted itself. Help!

This TIVO/Unbox arrangement is awful and I intend to broadcast this. Just leaving an option on the screen shouldn't delete a movie. Tivo/Unbox is so unflexible and isn't worth the money.

[rodbac]

Aren't the terms of the rental pretty clear (honest question)?

[andyf]

It's not TiVo or Unbox that's at fault here. Its the licensing terms the movie provider insists on to allow this type of service to operate. Blame Hollywood!

[ah30k]

It is not clear if your son started watching two minutes the day prior to it getting deleted or the same night it was deleted.

The terms are clear that you have 24 hrs and the clock starts as soon as you start playing it.

[MickeS]

Sorry that happened, it can't be fun. When you start watching, a message comes up that you have to click OK to approve, that says you have 24 hours after starting watching before the movie is deleted. You can't change to "Keep until I delete" to get around this, it will be deleted after 24 hours no matter what. Your only option is to rent the movie again. :(
Unfortunately, those are the terms set by the content provider, and there's nothing TiVo or Amazon can do about it. The terms are the same for most if not all other sources similar rentals, such as AppleTV and PPV.

[scandia101]

The rental was removed from your Tivo per the terms of the rental agreement.
You have 24 hours from the time the first playing of the rental begins. I don't recall seeing an exclusion for when a minor child plays it for just a couple of minutes.
You could call amazon and give them your sad story in hopes of them resetting it for download or for a refund.

[lew]

There is something to be said for using Netflix. Keep the movie as long as you want.

The unit doesn't know you only watched a couple of minutes of the movie. You could ask for an exception, or chalk it up to a lesson.

Unlike some of the previous posters I appreciate your post. It's good to warn posters there isn't a way to extend the 24 hour window, and just starting the show is enough to start the clock.

[ZeoTiVo]

Unlike some of the previous posters I appreciate your post.

I did not see where anyone said the post was bad??

the most productive approach though is to tell UNBOX you do not like the 24 hours and ask/find the studio that owned the movie to send them a message as well that
24 hours is not enough time for the viewing window

so the original post is good hopefully in getting the info on who to really contact about this issue.

[Mars Rocket]

I agree that 24 hours is too short, but I do understand the business model - after all, if you rented a video from a local store you'd only get a specific amount of time for your $$, and you'd have to pay more if you kept it longer.

That being said, they should have a number you can call to extend the rental time or reset it for exceptional circumstances. Comcast can do this (and does - a friend got a PPV rental for some long kids movie extended recently because they couldn't finish the movie in one night because they're child fell asleep in the middle of it).

[Einselen]

Movielink typically has a renew option and I believe it is typically cheaper then renting again (new releases might be the same price though)

[mazelady]

Just for everyone's info. It had not been 24 hours. I estimate it had been 20 hours at the most.

[mazelady]

The problem wasn't that the 24 hours had expired. It was that I had left the screen that said "Keep Until:" up on the Tv while I answered the phone. I know how Tivo kicks you back to live tv or whatever is recording if you don't choose an option on the screen after a certain period of time.

But it shouldn't delete my movie! I didn't select any option but when I came back, not only was I at the main menu but the movie was deleted also.

[Solver]

So far, it seems that all the groups involved have colluded to force the one rather restrictive rental policy.

Doesn't the Apple TV (Take 2) let you keep viewing rented movies past the 24 hour period? I also hear about strategic pausing to extend the viewing period even more.
If so, TiVo can at least use these more relaxed methods to play back rented movies as well.

[Einselen]

The problem wasn't that the 24 hours had expired. It was that I had left the screen that said "Keep Until:" up on the Tv while I answered the phone. I know how Tivo kicks you back to live tv or whatever is recording if you don't choose an option on the screen after a certain period of time.

But it shouldn't delete my movie! I didn't select any option but when I came back, not only was I at the main menu but the movie was deleted also.

I don't get how sitting on the screen matters. If time passes of how long you can keep it (either PPV limitation flags or unbox) it should not matter if you were watching the movie, watching something else, was in china, etc. your time has passed.

[rodbac]

This TIVO/Unbox arrangement is awful and I intend to broadcast this.

^^Here you're unhappy with the terms set forth.

The problem wasn't that the 24 hours had expired. It was that I had left the screen that said "Keep Until:" up on the Tv while I answered the phone. I know how Tivo kicks you back to live tv or whatever is recording if you don't choose an option on the screen after a certain period of time.

But it shouldn't delete my movie! I didn't select any option but when I came back, not only was I at the main menu but the movie was deleted also.

^^But here you're claiming a malfunction (the movie was deleted when it shouldn't have been).

Which is it?

[nirisahn]

Contact Amazon and let them know. I've had this happen with Movielink, and they sent me a code to download the movie again for free. Amazon may do the same. Nothing to lose by asking.

[ZeoTiVo]

The problem wasn't that the 24 hours had expired. It was that I had left the screen that said "Keep Until:" up on the Tv while I answered the phone. I know how Tivo kicks you back to live tv or whatever is recording if you don't choose an option on the screen after a certain period of time.

But it shouldn't delete my movie! I didn't select any option but when I came back, not only was I at the main menu but the movie was deleted also.

The TiVo did not delete the movie because you were on the menu item, it deleted the movie because it had hit the 24 hour mark. It took you to main menu since it very well could not stay on a mneu screen for a non existent movie.

When I used Unbox with my initial credit I watched some movies at the 23:45 mark or so just to see what would happen and the deletions all happned at the 24 hour mark and took me to main menu when it happened.

[MickeS]

Just for everyone's info. It had not been 24 hours. I estimate it had been 20 hours at the most.

I estimate you are wrong. :)

[MighTiVo]

Call Amazon, they have always let me download the program again when I had trouble.

Well one time they didn't, I had a show on the TiVo for nearly a month before watching it and they no longer had the rights to the program as it had gone to exclusive cable PPV so they gave me a refund instead.

24 hour rules suck, but at least Amazon has great customer service...

[MickeS]

Call Amazon, they have always let me download the program again when I had trouble.

Same here, at least once, maybe twice. But email was enough for me. :) They gave me a credit so I could rent it again.

Of course, that was because there WAS an actual problem, not because the rental had expired per the terms of the rental agreement. Maybe there was something wrong here too, but I honestly doubt it.

[rainwater]

Doesn't the Apple TV (Take 2) let you keep viewing rented movies past the 24 hour period?

No it doesn't.

[MighTiVo]

Same here, at least once, maybe twice. But email was enough for me. :) They gave me a credit so I could rent it again.

Of course, that was because there WAS an actual problem, not because the rental had expired per the terms of the rental agreement. Maybe there was something wrong here too, but I honestly doubt it.


I just told them I forgot to watch it before it expired....

[MickeS]

I just told them I forgot to watch it before it expired....

Definitely worth a shot asking, everyone makes mistakes.

[ewilts]

Personally, I'd like to see the rental time be 28 hours or more. That lets you start watching it one evening, pause it, and finish it the next. Right now, if you start watching a movie at say 7pm and get interrupted, you can't watch it the next day since you're probably at work at 5pm (assuming normal business hours). Yes, I realize it also lets you watch it twice.

[MickeS]

Personally, I'd like to see the rental time be 28 hours or more. That lets you start watching it one evening, pause it, and finish it the next. Right now, if you start watching a movie at say 7pm and get interrupted, you can't watch it the next day since you're probably at work at 5pm (assuming normal business hours). Yes, I realize it also lets you watch it twice.

Yes I agree. 30 hours would be much better than 24, for this reason, even if they don't want to do a full 48 hours.

[davezatz]

No it doesn't.

I think I read on the Vudu forums that if you pause the movie on Apple TV and leave it, you can continue/resume watching beyond the 24 hours? I haven't actually tested it yet. Maybe when I get home later this week.

As far as the OP, I bet she hit the 24 hour mark or someone in the household accidentally deleted the movie.

[mikeyts]

One of the big chain stores had what they called "two-night rental" for new releases, which was rental at any time on the first day for return by midnight on the following day. That would work.

The problem is that, if they rent on a school night, most people with kids have a fixed set of activities that they cannot skip and which they have to complete before they can sit down and watch (helping the kids with their homework, fixing dinner, etc). If they don't finish watching a film on the first evening, it'll be that same time the following evening before they can start watching again, just as the 24 hour period elapses. If they had until midnight the following day to finish, they'd have a high probability of being able to finish. If you don't give them two full evenings to finish viewing, you may as well not give them any extra time at all.

Every cable and online film rental provider that I've heard of uses that 24-hours-after-starting-playback period for online rental by download or streaming, though: cable VOD and "all-day" PPV, Amazon, CinemaNow, MovieLink, Apple TV, VUDU, Xbox Live Video Store, etc, etc, etc. Of the online download services, the amount of time you're given to start watching after downloading varies somewhat, but from start-of-play-to-expiration is always 24 hours. I think that the movie rights-holders probably like the fact that this can cause some people to have to pay two rental fees to finish watching a film :rolleyes:.

[ADent]

I think I read on the Vudu forums that if you pause the movie on Apple TV and leave it, you can continue/resume watching beyond the 24 hours?

Yes. BUT - if you leave the movie for any reason (say go to a menu) it will be immediately deleted once beyond the 24 hour mark. And there is some maximum time before even the pause thing stops working.

[Stormspace]

One of the big chain stores had what they called "two-night rental" for new releases, which was rental at any time on the first day for return by midnight on the following day. That would work.

The problem is that, if they rent on a school night, most people with kids have a fixed set of activities that they cannot skip and which they have to complete before they can sit down and watch (helping the kids with their homework, fixing dinner, etc). If they don't finish watching a film on the first evening, it'll be that same time the following evening before they can start watching again, just as the 24 hour period elapses. If they had until midnight the following day to finish, they'd have a high probability of being able to finish. If you don't give them two full evenings to finish viewing, you may as well not give them any extra time at all.

Every cable and online film rental provider that I've heard of uses that 24-hours-after-starting-playback period for online rental by download or streaming, though: cable VOD and "all-day" PPV, Amazon, CinemaNow, MovieLink, Apple TV, VUDU, Xbox Live Video Store, etc, etc, etc. Of the online download services, the amount of time you're given to start watching after downloading varies somewhat, but from start-of-play-to-expiration is always 24 hours. I think that the movie rights-holders probably like the fact that this can cause some people to have to pay two rental fees to finish watching a film :rolleyes:.

The way I see this is that it's a limiting factor in market penetration that movies studios will have to address if they want to sell videos to families on days other than the weekend. Personally I will not purchase a movie to watch during the week because of the thing the OP is complaining about. I might change my habits if the movie would last longer than 24 hours however.

[john123]

Looks to me like most folks are missing what the OP says is the real problem here.

Sure, it would be great if they would extend the watch period over 24 hours - I would rent a whole load more movies from unbox if they would.

That, though, isn't what he thinks the problem is. The issue is that he thinks it was deleted because it went past the 'keep until time', and the tivo needed to space for something else.

This I can believe because it has happened to me. Not in the exact same circumstances (I wasn't on the screen for the movie, and hadn't started watching it), but the default when it downloads movies is NOT to keep until the 28 days 'retention period' expires.

It is very easy to miss this, and have movies deleted before you watch them (or maybe, as the OP reports, part of the way through).

I would like the default changed so that when you download an unbox rental, it will automatically set it to be retained for the full 28 period. That would have saved me a couple of customer support calls.

[MighTiVo]

Looks to me like most folks are missing what the OP says is the real problem here.

Sure, it would be great if they would extend the watch period over 24 hours - I would rent a whole load more movies from unbox if they would.

That, though, isn't what he thinks the problem is. The issue is that he thinks it was deleted because it went past the 'keep until time', and the tivo needed to space for something else.

This I can believe because it has happened to me. Not in the exact same circumstances (I wasn't on the screen for the movie, and hadn't started watching it), but the default when it downloads movies is NOT to keep until the 28 days 'retention period' expires.

It is very easy to miss this, and have movies deleted before you watch them (or maybe, as the OP reports, part of the way through).

I would like the default changed so that when you download an unbox rental, it will automatically set it to be retained for the full 28 period. That would have saved me a couple of customer support calls.

Yep, me too, Amazon just let me download it again....

Keep complaining to Amazon and TiVo and perhaps they wil change the default keep until some day...
I am afraid the 24 hour rule is too widespread for TiVo/Amazon to have any impact though.

[derspiess]

It is not clear if your son started watching two minutes the day prior to it getting deleted or the same night it was deleted.

The terms are clear that you have 24 hrs and the clock starts as soon as you start playing it.

Yeah, I knew that going into it with my first Unbox rental. I rented 3:10 to Yuma with a free code that came with my TivoHD a couple weeks ago, but made sure not to start watching until I knew I'd have time to sit through it all (it's been busy around the household recently).

Sucks to have that happen, but they can't let you keep a rented movie forever.

[ZeoTiVo]

That, though, isn't what he thinks the problem is. The issue is that he thinks it was deleted because it went past the 'keep until time', and the tivo needed to space for something else.


I would like the default changed so that when you download an unbox rental, it will automatically set it to be retained for the full 28 period. That would have saved me a couple of customer support calls.

that is a good point and something TiVo could do now. I wnder if a show will be deleted for space even if you are on its menu? I have large drives so have never experienced that myself.

[Einselen]

Question is how long did you have the movie (lets keep it simple and say when it was ordered) before your son started to watch it. If it is anything less then one day then the whole tivo deleted it automatically to get space argument is null and void.

[scandia101]

If it is anything less then one day then the whole tivo deleted it automatically to get space argument is null and void.

Not if everything else has a later KU date or is KUID.

[Einselen]

Not if everything else has a later KU date or is KUID.

chances are if the OP thought that leaving the movie menu up would keep the movie around then I highly doubt they would chance everything to a much later KU or KUID date, but yes the OP can confirm this as well but also at that time won't a message pop up saying these things will be deleted early in that case, I would think the op would notice the movie as one of those things.