Who makes the best HD DVR?

[Pictor Guy]

EngadgetHD is running a poll asking what the best HD DVR is. What are your thoughts?

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/03/20/poll-who-makes-the-best-hd-dvr/

[ZeoTiVo]

TiVo has not done much in the last few years to improve the UI?

Did they notice the
-Comcast powered by TiVo DVR?
-have they looked at wishlist conditional logic??
-Swivel Search?
-HME app that let 3rd parties do things like galleon, PyTiVo, audioFaucet?

-TiVocast?
-the just release webcast?
-the just released publish to folders from desktop?

all of these may be "features" but they certainly add usefulness to the UI as well. All that is missing is snazzy graphics and HD formatting - sure they are nice to have but TiVo would have to beef up the processor and memory for that and add a good bit to the cost of the box.

so if you want snazzy then fine by a Vista media center with Cable Card support for a couple grand.

Me I will take a solid DVR appliance with good "features" over snazzy and save $1,500 and myself time.

[dwit]

Early exit polls project Tivo in a romp.

[GoHokies!]

The fact that Tivo hasn't changed the U/I just highlights the point of how well thought out the U/I was in the first place. The basic U/I can't be beaten with a stick, IMO.

[atmuscarella]

Guess it really depends on how you define "Best". My personal guess is a TiVo HD DVR would be considered the "Best" HD DVR by more people than any other HD DVR, however I am also fairly certain a substantial number of people would not consider a TiVo HD DVR to be the "Best" HD DVR for themselves.

Thanks,

[GoHokies!]

I'm assuming that you mean that for some people it isn't worth the higher cost?

[ZeoTiVo]

TiVo 35.5%
Vista, dIRECTtv, dish COMBINED 37%

Motorolla adn SA combined 10%
Myth and Sage combined 5%
something else 8.9% :p

Fios* and U-verse barely even registered on the results


sums up my feelings

*Though iwould love to hook my TiVo HD up to a FIOS feed

[jtrain]

Umm yeah...got FiOS installed in December and have been nothing but happy with it. It was like Christmas all over again when the installer showed up...marrying my S3 to FiOS was a very good decision and needless to say, the family is loving it too.

[MickeS]

I've only used TiVo and Scientific Atlanta. To even say the SA is a DVR is a stretch, but technically it was one I guess. :)

[bschuler2007]

Can't wait for next poll.. what yet to be discovered planet is the nicest? I mean, honestly, has anyone who voted used all those systems? I highly doubt it..

I voted Vista MCE, as without good support of mp3s, podcasts, divx, xvid, etc.. the interface itself doesn't matter. I know they're asking DVR, but a DVR has to do more than just record these days. And the only time a good interface matters in a DVR.. is when your media choices suck. With a good system.. you should barely see the interface.

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by GoHokies!
I'm assuming that you mean that for some people it isn't worth the higher cost?I am sure cost would be a major one, but it could also be other things like needing the HD DVR to record HD from a satellite provider, or having your cable provider using Switched Digital Video for all the HD channels you want to record, or being on a small cable system that doesn't provide cable cards, or maybe just wanting the flexibility of a media center, etc..

I just looked at the numbers and less than 36% picked TiVo as the best HD DVR meaning for some reason 64% think something else is better (at least for themselves).

Thanks,

[ZeoTiVo]

I just looked at the numbers and less than 36% picked TiVo as the best HD DVR meaning for some reason 64% think something else is better (at least for themselves).

Thanks,
yes but those other people were scattered all over the place along the lines of

TiVo 35.5%
Vista, dIRECTtv, dish COMBINED 37%

Motorolla adn SA combined 10%
Myth and Sage combined 5%
something else 8.9%

Fios* and U-verse barely even registered on the results


so nothing else garnered the kind of backing that TiVo has

[dwit]

yes but those other people were scattered all over the place along the lines of

TiVo 35.5%
Vista, dIRECTtv, dish COMBINED 37%

Motorolla adn SA combined 10%
Myth and Sage combined 5%
something else 8.9%

Fios* and U-verse barely even registered on the results


so nothing else garnered the kind of backing that TiVo has

I agree. I think Tivo or any company would be happy with a 36% share of a business that's supposedly a commodity.

[Pictor Guy]

I agree. I think Tivo or any company would be happy with a 36% share of a business that's supposedly a commodity.

I don't think that's 36% share of the business that they have but I think I get your point. However, to be honest whatever share they have is not enough, even if it's 36%. Truth is TiVo is still not making money even after all these years so they need more market share.

I've used a few DVRs and I really like the TiVo but there is always room for improvement. In fact I like it so much that I've dumped DirecTV because of TiVo.

[HiDefGator]

Since most people have not used more than a single HD DVR how can you take this poll seriously?

Add to that the limited number of HD DVR's that Tivo has ever sold and it makes the think the results are a little off in term of fairness and accuracy.

Tivo HD units only account for less than 10% of the HD DVR's in use today but it is winning a huge percent of the vote?

[ZeoTiVo]

Tivo HD units only account for less than 10% of the HD DVR's in use today but it is winning a huge percent of the vote?

so - Mac only accounts for small percentage of the PC market but I bet a poll would skew Apple's way versus fall on markey share lines.

and with a DVR the skew can be greater since many people have no choice on what DVR they will actually use.

I can agree that a lot of TiVolutionaries are voting versus as many people using a Dish DVR sicne they are most likely not surfing the net for DVR stuff since they use DISH for HD or nothing.

Still TiVo is kicking butt in the poll, that you can not deny.

[HiDefGator]

It's still not a valid poll. You have a very high percentage of the Tivo owners voting and a very low percentage of the other dvr owners reporting. So end the end you can't conclude anything from it. Except that mostly Tivo owners voted.

[JJ]

Agreed
if voting was limited to those who have used three or more HD-DVRs this poll would have more weight. Opinions of those users who have given multiple platforms an even shake would hold more interest for me than a bunch of 'fanboy' voters...

[RS4]

It's still not a valid poll. You have a very high percentage of the Tivo owners voting and a very low percentage of the other dvr owners reporting. So end the end you can't conclude anything from it. Except that mostly Tivo owners voted.

That's just not a valid conclusion.:down: Just because someone doesn't own a box, doesn't mean they haven't given it proper consideration. The fact remains that in this poll as well as many others, Tivo is the hands down winner:D

[jerryez]

Yeah, but how many of you TiVo users have used another brand HD DVR. I have two TiVos with Lifetime and a Dish 722 HD DVR, The Dish DVR is much better than either of my TiVos. Go ahead, flame me, but I have tried both and the Dish DVR is better.

[DaveDFW]

I've never used the Dish DVR, but I do have experience with the latest Directv and Motorola dual-tuner HD dvrs.

I'm hardly a blind Tivo fanatic--I know both the product and the company have problems, but it easily beats the other DVRs I have experienced.

The Directv dual-tuner HD dvr (I don't know the model--it belongs to my parents) is functional and I wouldn't feel like I was being overly punished if I had to use it daily.

I also have a TWC-supplied Motorola 6416 dual-tuner HD dvr, which is here just for the SDV channels. I suppose the hardware platform is okay, but the software they're running is unquestionably a total POS. It's unfriendly, awkward, nearly featureless, and the UI looks like it came from the 80's.

After spending time with the 6416, I cringe when I hear people asking why they should spend money upfront on a Tivo instead of the "free" 6416 plus monthly fees. These are the people who truly aren't comparing DVRs.

TTYL
David

[jsmeeker]

TiVo.

[Dan203]

I will admit that Vista MCE has a cool UI and a lot of neat features. However it's unreliable (had a lot of missed/messed up recordings) and a serious power hog. The PC it's running on needs a minimum 500W power supply. The S3 TiVo draws less then 30W.

All the other options are a joke. The only reason people use them is because they're cheaper then TiVo, not because they're better.

Dan

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by Dan203
All the other options are a joke. The only reason people use them is because they're cheaper then TiVo, not because they're better.
Well my minimum requirements for any DVR is that is can record what I want it to. I know it isn't TiVo's fault but there are a number of situations where a TiVo HD or Series 3 can not record what the person wants and these other "joke" options can. I believe that TiVo makes the best over all DVRs however a TiVo may not be someone's best HD DVR option, which is what I think the pole is reflecting. What is surprising to me is the number of people (63.5% last time I looked) who don't think TiVo makes the best HD DVR. I would think there are a number of people who wouldn't think a TiVo HD DVR is not the best option for themselves, but not 63.5%, I don't think the results of this pole are a good thing for TiVo.

Thanks,

[samo]

Yeah, but how many of you TiVo users have used another brand HD DVR. I have two TiVos with Lifetime and a Dish 722 HD DVR, The Dish DVR is much better than either of my TiVos. Go ahead, flame me, but I have tried both and the Dish DVR is better.
It is indeed. The second best is HR20 from DirecTV. TiVo is OK, I have used it for 9 years and I can live with it, but UI on TiVo is getting old and looks plain ugly compare with new SAT DVRs. And I'm so used to PIP in a guide, FSI, CID and RF remotes that TiVo irritates me for not having these basic features that just about every other DVR has.

[Dan203]

I know it isn't TiVo's fault but there are a number of situations where a TiVo HD or Series 3 can not record what the person wants and these other "joke" options can.

Like what? PPV? Satellite? My S3 can record every single channel offered by my cable company with the exception of PPV/OnDemand. And I never used those even when I had the Moxi and could.

I think 95% of people who use those other brand DVRs do it because they are either oblivious to the differences, have no other choice (DSS or SDV) or are trying to save money. The other 5% are using MCE PCs because they provide greater versatility, albeit at the cost of stability and complexity.

Dan

[Dan203]

And I'm so used to PIP in a guide

I had that "feature" on the Moxi and hated it. I can't even tell you how many times I had a show ruined for me because I was forced to watch the end of whatever program was being recorded while selecting a program to watch from the menu. If TiVo ever add this ability I hope they also have a way to turn it off.

Dan

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by Dan203
Like what? PPV? Satellite? My S3 can record every single channel offered by my cable company with the exception of PPV/OnDemand. And I never used those even when I had the Moxi and could.

I think 95% of people who use those other brand DVRs do it because they are either oblivious to the differences, have no other choice (DSS or SDV) or are trying to save money. The other 5% are using MCE PCs because they provide greater versatility, albeit at the cost of stability and complexity.
As you can see from various peoples comments and this pole what makes a DVR the best DVR is different for each person and based on criteria that are import to them. The criteria that you dismiss as irrelevant are relevant to other people. Some of the things you like about TiVo other people actually dislike and some of the things you dislike about other DVRs other people actually like.

So basically I think you answered your own question, for people putting a high value on recording HD content from, Satellite, PPV, SDV cable channels, cable systems not using cable cards, Internet/IPTV, etc. a HD TiVo just doesn't work, and it's pretty hard to say a DVR that doesn't work is the "Best" DVR.

Honestly what I am finding the most surprising about this pole is the actual percentage of people that are finding some reason to say another HD DVR is the best HD DVR. It would be interesting to know how many of the people picking another HD DVR are doing so solely because of cost versus what percentage are picking another HD DVR due to some functionality item.

Thanks,

[JJ]

Ranking DVRs
is a bit like deciding what child you love best.

For me at the moment:
1. Dish VIP622 mega configurable and has live TV in menus the Princess prefers
2. Vista Media Center visually brilliant and highly reliable
3. TiVo still looks like Series1 and lack of a Series3 tuning resolver keeps us on Series1
4. DirecTV HR20-700 hardware problems and interface caused us to drop DirecTV

The TiVo/DirecTV HR10-250 was the DVR pinnacle for a long time but the inability to move forward in an MPEG4 environment doomed it. In the same way, the Series1 will face an uncertain fate come February 2009. TiVo may never become the dominant DVR for us ever again. But, a nice comfortable third place is not all that bad. Or is third place what TiVo aspires to now that they are no longer the dominant platform...

[JJ]

Honestly what I am finding the most surprising about this pole is the actual percentage of people that are finding some reason to say another HD DVR is the best HD DVR. It would be interesting to know how many of the people picking another HD DVR are doing so solely because of cost versus what percentage are picking another HD DVR due to some functionality item.

Thanks,

Total Cost of Ownership
should always be factored into choices. If cost were not a deciding factor Rolls Royce, Ferrari, and Lamborghini would be the big three automakers. There is a market for Toyotas just as there is one for used muscle cars, and fully customized hot rods. I prefer to think of it as something for everyone and every budget...

[madbeachcat]

Like what? PPV? Satellite? My S3 can record every single channel offered by my cable company with the exception of PPV/OnDemand. And I never used those even when I had the Moxi and could.

I think 95% of people who use those other brand DVRs do it because they are either oblivious to the differences, have no other choice (DSS or SDV) or are trying to save money. The other 5% are using MCE PCs because they provide greater versatility, albeit at the cost of stability and complexity.

Dan

I guess I must be with the other 5%. I've owned and used a Tivo, currently I have an HR21 from DTV, I've also used the Moto box..

I hated the Moto, liked the Tivo and like the HR-21. I choose to stay with what I have now because it works well, has plenty of features and I can get a large number of HD channels with DTV. I am not oblivious to the differences, and I can afford the box I want. I choose the HR-21.

I also do not belittle other's choices, just because they may be different than mine.

[ZeoTiVo]

Agreed
if voting was limited to those who have used three or more HD-DVRs this poll would have more weight. Opinions of those users who have given multiple platforms an even shake would hold more interest for me than a bunch of 'fanboy' voters...


umm if by fanboys you mean people who have a TiVo DVR and like it enough to vote for it.

And I gave serious considration to using the cable company DVR, DBS service and othr stuff like open source.
I have an XP media center that I looked over but the snazzy interface was simply not enough for me to compete with a DVR appliance like a TiVo DVR. Especially since I can pull most any show off the TiVo and do what I want with it on a PC anyway.

So my vote took the rest into account but I use TiVo for a good reason and so do most anyone else who has TiVo DVRs. really the only suspect votes are the DBS votes since those people most likely use what was given them and they are happy the DVRs have steadily improved over time or the cable company DVRs since those would far more fall into the camp of use whatever and not really consider alternatives.

[ZeoTiVo]

Yeah, but how many of you TiVo users have used another brand HD DVR. I have two TiVos with Lifetime and a Dish 722 HD DVR, The Dish DVR is much better than either of my TiVos. Go ahead, flame me, but I have tried both and the Dish DVR is better.

You most likely cite two SD units that are not even part of the poll. :rolleyes:

[atmuscarella]

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
only suspect votes are the DBS votes since those people most likely use what was givenThere in lies the problem with this pole - it is impossible for DBS users to compare using a HD TiVo to the DBS company HD DVR, what they actual have to end up doing is comparing the cable service + HD TiVo to the DBS service + the DBS company HD DVR and if you live in a cable free zone (as I do) you are still SOL when it comes to a HD TiVo DVR.

When we were talking about analog/SD DVRs SA single tuner Series 1 & 2 TiVos were universal DVRs (prior to the Series 2 DT), meaning your single tuner TiVo could record SD from pretty much any video source available. Now that we are moving towards HD a universal DVR no longer exists. What HD DVR a person can use to record HD (in HD) is now highly dependent upon the video source, which makes comparing HD DVRs more difficult because people will naturally factor in how a DVR works with the HD video sources they want to record.

Thanks,