Hanging/rebooting H10-250--any announced plan to fix?

[htroberts]

I haven't seen as many posts about H10-250's rebooting since the 6.3f upgrade, but all three of ours are hanging and/or rebooting (the hangs are actually more annoying) at least once a week.

I've seen people post that this could indicate a drive problem, which may be, but it seems unlikely in my case, with three boxes all having problems at the same time. The other people I know with 10-250's are also having problems, which also seems to point to a software issue.

Anyway, unless there's a definite plan by TiVo/DirecTV to fix this soon, I think it's likely that this problem, along with no viable DirecTV/TiVo replacement and the end of MPEG-2 streams, will drive us back to cable (after twelve years) pretty soon.

Has anyone gotten an acknowledgment of the problem and estimated fix date from DirecTV, or are they stonewalling? (no, I haven't called yet, but will soon)

Regards,
Heath

[TyroneShoes]

Ironically, Heath, I remember that the entire point of the 6.3f up rev was that it was designed to fix the spontaneous reboot issue, IIRC. Weaknees thinks its a HDD problem, but that may be because they sell HDDs and would gladly sell you new ones, for a price (which is a viable option if you really want to nurse your HR10s along for a while).

I can't say I'm surprised. You are not the only one reporting this on "f". Unfortunately this lament is beginning to sound like a chorus. I was hoping to suck this up rev up, but when you think about it, if they broke it with 6.3, and could not fix it with b, c, d, or e, what chance does "f" really have? I am hunkering back down and will refuse to connect my phone lines until this is resolved, which could be never, the way things seem to be going.

But I would not count out the HR2x. Not only have I had zero problems with mine (other than some very mild "v1.0" issues, the software has been improved immensely since I originally declared it a completely-unacceptable Tivo replacement 18 months ago. Even when unexpectedly, things change.

Don't get me wrong, I still prefer Tivo (which is why I am protecting mine against "f") but if you rate the HR10 at a 9 out of 10 (with 3.1.5f it's still a 10), the HR2x comes in at a respectable 7 or 8, and in a lot of ways (speed, HD, menu shortcuts, VOD) is ironicaly enough, a vast improvement over the venerable HR10 on 6.x.

Just to complete the scale, I would rate the DISH HD DVRs at a 5 or 6, the Scientific-Atlanta DVRs a 4, HTCP options about a 2, and Tivo HD S3 with CC about an 8, although problematic and costly in comparison to the HR10. The only one in that group I do not have close experience with would be the DISH DVRs (I tried to leave my extreme hatred for their SD DVRs out of my opinion of the HD units, which I understand are much-improved).

What that means is that the HR2x and the S3 (the S3 would be limited in HD channels on cable compared to 96 on DTV, 150 by 12-31-08) are really the only serious contenders. At least IMHO, which I'd like to think is based on pretty solid info. The horror stories are a bit overblown, there is life after Tivo. Even in HD.

[htroberts]

Ironically, Heath, I remember that the entire point of the 6.3f up rev was that it was designed to fix the spontaneous reboot issue, IIRC. Weaknees thinks its a HDD problem, but that may be because they sell HDDs and would gladly sell you new ones, for a price (which is a viable option if you really want to nurse your HR10s along for a while).

I don't buy the idea of a disk problem. My three receivers are all having problems. One of those disks came from DVRupgrade last June, one came from Best Buy last September, and one is the original.

Also, two friends who have similar equipment are having similar problems.

The idea that it's a problem with a Raleigh-Durham channel is interesting, and possible I suppose, although I don't think that any bits that come in a program stream should cause a crash or reboot. Unhandled errors just indicate poor-quality code.

I did call DirecTV last night after the most recent reboot. I explained that I've been a customer for a long time, but that if DirecTV wouldn't or couldn't fix the problem, and quickly, that we would switch to cable.

The CSR's suggestion: restart the box. I apologized for laughing and explained that it was the situation and not her and that it happened before I could suppress the urge.

Eventually she asked me for the access card number, which gave her the receiver model, and she said there were no issues, but that if there were, they were working on them. I laughed again, and asked if she would pass the message up the chain that at least one customer was unhappy enough to defect.

She said she would, although who knows...

In an unrelated matter, a Time-Warner technician was here yesterday checking our broadband connection, and he said he has a S3 HD TiVo with a multi-stream cablecard and that he loves it. He also said that he hasn't heard of SDV and that as far as he knows, TWC has no plans to change anything in the near future, so I think that's likely where we'll go if DTV can't fix this rebooting issue, or if they turn off MPEG2 before they have a new Tivo-based DVR.

Regards,
Heath

[sjberra]

I don't buy the idea of a disk problem. My three receivers are all having problems. One of those disks came from DVRupgrade last June, one came from Best Buy last September, and one is the original.

Also, two friends who have similar equipment are having similar problems.

The idea that it's a problem with a Raleigh-Durham channel is interesting, and possible I suppose, although I don't think that any bits that come in a program stream should cause a crash or reboot. Unhandled errors just indicate poor-quality code.

I did call DirecTV last night after the most recent reboot. I explained that I've been a customer for a long time, but that if DirecTV wouldn't or couldn't fix the problem, and quickly, that we would switch to cable.

The CSR's suggestion: restart the box. I apologized for laughing and explained that it was the situation and not her and that it happened before I could suppress the urge.

Eventually she asked me for the access card number, which gave her the receiver model, and she said there were no issues, but that if there were, they were working on them. I laughed again, and asked if she would pass the message up the chain that at least one customer was unhappy enough to defect.

She said she would, although who knows...

In an unrelated matter, a Time-Warner technician was here yesterday checking our broadband connection, and he said he has a S3 HD TiVo with a multi-stream cablecard and that he loves it. He also said that he hasn't heard of SDV and that as far as he knows, TWC has no plans to change anything in the near future, so I think that's likely where we'll go if DTV can't fix this rebooting issue, or if they turn off MPEG2 before they have a new Tivo-based DVR.

Regards,
Heath

Might as well head over to TWC is that is your criteria, they are already starting to require anyone that wants the upcoming sports packages to have the HR2X series, and the west coast people are also at the point of being required to have the HR2X's series.

[temp357]

I've had nothing but problems since upgrading to 6.3f. I wouldn't say there are spontanious reboots anymore though. Once it hits a channel it doesn't like it comes to a crawl and eventually reboots itself...unless i can get it to change the channel in time which fixes it. I also have it come up with invalid access card once a day. I had these problems since 6.3x came out. I downgraded to 3.1.5f for a year and all the problems went away. I would say the trial of 6.3f is a disaster.

[incog-neato]

From this thread comment: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6102046#post6102046 it seems to be an issue in the Raleigh/Durham NC area and the OP looks like he is from that area.

Aside from that, I haven't had any reboot problems other then the one 6.3E (I think) fixed with one of the networks.

[TyroneShoes]

...I don't think that any bits that come in a program stream should cause a crash or reboot...Speaking as a broadcast engineer, I have first-hand info that this is indeed very possible. I've seen a lot of evidence directly supporting it.

The standards for how things are delivered do not always inform how reception devices are designed. Different receivers have different issues with digital delivery (which makes trying to stay ahead of these things problematic).

So I am still a bit skeptical as to the true issue with the HR10, but still very open to that theory. The reboots tend to be reported much more during programming from CBS than during other HD programming. Once I heard this, I checked, and the reboots I am getting are about 90% during CBS programming. I had 4 reboots last week, and 3 of those were during Letterman, which is a typical "good" week.

I have not gone so far as to move tuners off of CBS when not being used, but that is still probably a good idea. Without knowing ahead of time, it's very possible that a reboot may be due to the idle tuner being tuned to CBS, even if the active tuner is not.

[htroberts]

Speaking as a broadcast engineer, I have first-hand info that this is indeed very possible. I've seen a lot of evidence directly supporting it.

I didn't mean to suggest that I thought it was impossible for unexpected encoding in the incoming stream to be the cause of the current reboots, I meant that the software on the receiver should be designed & implemented to handle the error, rather than crashing.

If your PC rebooted every time you visited a certain website, the problem is fairly clearly caused by an interaction between the PC and the website and could be fixed at either end, but you'd probably blame the PC, not the web site.

[Mark Lopez]

A problem I've had three times since 6.3f, is I lose video on HDMI until I reboot the HR10. Changing resolutions does not fix it, nor does changing channels or anything else. It never did this until the last update and nothing else has changed.

[TyroneShoes]

I didn't mean to suggest that I thought it was impossible for unexpected encoding in the incoming stream to be the cause of the current reboots, I meant that the software on the receiver should be designed & implemented to handle the error, rather than crashing...I agree it should be. The fact remains that it isn't.
...If your PC rebooted every time you visited a certain website, the problem is fairly clearly caused by an interaction between the PC and the website and could be fixed at either end, but you'd probably blame the PC, not the web site.I think there's enough blame to spread around, and I blame both. It's an incompatibility. Both should work to fix it. Getting them to work together to fix it is difficult, specifically because the ego of each gets in the way of even admitting to the other that there is a compatibility problem, so I don't expect a quick fix. The HR10 could be history before that fix comes.

[temp357]

Well,
After three lockups yesterday. I've had it with 6.3f. Looks like I'll have to find my old 3.1.5f cd and upgrade the software.

[tucsonbill]

.... The reboots tend to be reported much more during programming from CBS than during other HD programming. Once I heard this, I checked, and the reboots I am getting are about 90% during CBS programming. I had 4 reboots last week, and 3 of those were during Letterman, which is a typical "good" week.

I have not gone so far as to move tuners off of CBS when not being used, but that is still probably a good idea. Without knowing ahead of time, it's very possible that a reboot may be due to the idle tuner being tuned to CBS, even if the active tuner is not.Tyrone -- You still on 6.3e? I have never seen this since I went to that version. I did have one box on 6.3f for three weeks with no problem. (since they broke 6.3b I've made a habit to make sure I have an image of every new release. I didn't know that I needed 6.3e till the reboots started.) I didn't have any problems with 6.3f, but I also don't typically watch CBS on that receiver.

[Paul_PDX]

I am still on 6.3c and had the reboot problem for a year or so until I realized that most times it hapened either one or both of two specific local channels were recording/playing on one of my tuners.

Here in Portland to solve my reboot issues I removed KOIN-HD CBS (6-1,6-2,6-3) and my CW affiliate (32-1,32-2) from the channels I receive and I went from having multiple times a day reboots to having less than one a week lately. I ended up letting my media center pc record CBS and CW HD shows that I wanted.

I haven't tried 6.3d or f since it seems not to have solved reboots for most people.

BTW -- I record way more CBS than CW so most of my reboots were happening during CBS recording/buffering.

[tucsonbill]

I am still on 6.3c and had the reboot problem for a year or so until I realized that most times it hapened either one or both of two specific local channels were recording/playing on one of my tuners.

Here in Portland to solve my reboot issues I removed KOIN-HD CBS (6-1,6-2,6-3) and my CW affiliate (32-1,32-2) from the channels I receive and I went from having multiple times a day reboots to having less than one a week lately. I ended up letting my media center pc record CBS and CW HD shows that I wanted.

I haven't tried 6.3d or f since it seems not to have solved reboots for most people. No, but 6.3e did. You might try searching -- OTOH, it might be simpler for you to stop watching the channels that cause problems.

[TyroneShoes]

Tyrone -- You still on 6.3e? I have never seen this since I went to that version...I have one on 6.3b and one on 3.1.5f (?). I only allowed one HR10 to take 6.3, and allowed it to 6.3b when 6.3 was busted (but everything above that seems to be busted as well). I also have no PCs in the house (only Mac OS) so I don't have an easy back rev path.

The one on 6.3b is the one I record CBS on, and it reboots 2-3 times a week. The other one (at 3.1) reboots once or twice a week, so I'm not completely convinced it is a 6.x issue. I would be willing to try 6.3e if it carried a better rep. I'm also not convinced it is a station/network/CBS issue, but I have a very open mind to that theory.

My workaround solution has been to get a 1 TB drive for my HR20 and record HD backups of everything I can, deleting them as soon as they record on the HR10s without a reboot, which has saved my ass a number of times. I still use the two HR10s for primary recording because the interface is much friendlier (and the HR20 for MPEG4). BTW, that HR20 has been rock-solid for the 5 months that I have owned (okay, leased) it, which is a helluva lot more than I can say for my HR10's since the 6.x fiasco.

[JonR]

My HR10 has been rock solid on 6.3f with absolutely NO issues therefore how can it be a software issue?

I'm not questioning that some people are having issues I'm just saying if it was a software issue we ALL would experience the problem and I believe the majority of owners are like me that experience absolutely NO issues.

My '2' cents :D

John

[TyroneShoes]

My HR10 has been rock solid on 6.3f with absolutely NO issues therefore how can it be a software issue?

I'm not questioning that some people are having issues I'm just saying if it was a software issue we ALL would experience the problem and I believe the majority of owners are like me that experience absolutely NO issues...I agree, and one would tend to think it were not a software issue, but the reality is that any two DVRs in any two different markets will see locals that originate from different sources. There are no strict rules for how providers comply to the general guidelines for digital broadcasting, just that they don't color outside certain lines. There are also no hard prerequisites in the equipment they choose to provide us these signals; there is a lot of black art involved and one vendor may do things quite differently than another while both are still compliant with the general guidelines.

So two exactly-identical boxes running the exact-same software may experience different sets of problems, and there is no practical way to field-test such equipment and fully vet all potential signals. Problems that arise that affect a certain number of units are often fixed only well after they arise. Some, (like 6.x) never at all.

If software issues were more predictable, then everybody's HR10 tuned to the same incoming signal with the same-exact problems would reboot at exactly the same time. They're not, and they don't. Last night I recorded "Moonlight" and "Letterman" on 2 HR10s. Both rebooted once during each program, but then not at the same time. Put another way, if fixing these issues was easy, anyone could have done it by now. It's not, and they haven't.

If Tivo had any idea prior to releasing 6.x that it would be the dog that it is, I'm sure they would have reconsidered. I'm also sure that at the time they did release it they were not expecting anywhere this level of problems. Regardless of how small the fraction of users is that experience those problems, the fact remains that the number is still significant enough to have created the impression, well-deserved, that 6.x was a grave mistake.

So, that said, how can it be anything other than a software issue? Huge groups of Macs and PCs all run the same versions of OS software, and many have unique problems that don't affect each and every user.

[tucsonbill]

I have one on 6.3b and one on 3.1.5f (?). I only allowed one HR10 to take 6.3, and allowed it to 6.3b when 6.3 was busted (but everything above that seems to be busted as well). I also have no PCs in the house (only Mac OS) so I don't have an easy back rev path.

The one on 6.3b is the one I record CBS on, and it reboots 2-3 times a week. The other one (at 3.1) reboots once or twice a week, so I'm not completely convinced it is a 6.x issue. I would be willing to try 6.3e if it carried a better rep. I'm also not convinced it is a station/network/CBS issue, but I have a very open mind to that theory. Well, it does. Jeez. I felt bad after posting last night to the guy who's running 6.3c and thought it was easier to just do something else with the problem channels -- But you've been here forever. Did you just not believe us when we said that 6.3e was the fix?

BTW, that HR20 has been rock-solid for the 5 months that I have owned (okay, leased) it, which is a helluva lot more than I can say for my HR10's since the 6.x fiasco.Well -- my HR21 is rock solid too -- except for the little audio issue I had. (I have to admit this was fixed faster than for the HR-10, but I still had to listen to the wife complain for three weeks.) OTOH, if you're not willing to install the fix for your HR10 problem, then you're not who I thought you were.

[TyroneShoes]

...if you're not willing to install the fix for your HR10 problem, then you're not who I thought you were.:eek: !?! :eek: !?! :eek:

OK. now I'm intrigued--just who DID you think I was?

...you've been here forever. Did you just not believe us when we said that 6.3e was the fix?... Honestly, I did not. Even now I'm wondering if you're just yankin' me. Sorry, it's just hard to believe they fixed this, even if they really did.

My reasons for not doing it are a combo of 6 things:

1) Once bitten twice shy, or fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...well, you get the idea. When it appeared Tivo had screwed the pooch, repeatedly, that meant I needed even more proof that this was truly the fix. I'm still not convinced, but if I have too many more nights like last night, I will probably plug the phone line in at least on the 6.3b box. Isn't that how they say you should handle an inevitable rape? "Relax, and enjoy it"?

2) Possibly my sampling of response to "e" or "f" was not very thorough; I need about a 10-to-1 ratio of "yes this is a fix" to "now they broke something else" to want to make such a leap, and I was only seeing about 2-to-1, if that.

3) I've only seen the rebooting thing ramp up in the last few weeks.

4) My HR20 workaround has kept me from becoming desperate regarding the issue. That may change now that the writer's strike is over and we're "in the (ratings) book", and scads of new shows will finally be available over the next month.

5) No DST where I live, so no DST issues with the early builds. Had I NOT been living where I do, that might have pushed me over the edge.

6) Without a PC I have no easy back rev, if any at all. Had I, I probably would have moved the 6.3b box back to 3.1 (which is also rebooting regulary by now)

Who did you think I was again? :)

[spankspank]

With regard to a failing disk drive causing reboots/hangs. Why doesn't a Tivo scan the kernel log for repeated disk errors and pass the user a message that the disk is failing and should be replaced?

[tucsonbill]

:eek: !?! :eek: !?! :eek:

OK. now I'm intrigued--just who DID you think I was? Well -- I read this last night too late to think about responding. So... I had time to think about the answer -- I guess the honest answer would be "someone more like me..." That's what we all think of someone we have come to like. OTOH -- in this context, I guess someone who wouldn't tolerate a problem when there was an obvious fix. I'll admit that I didn't read carefully and see the part about how you don't have access to a PC. Honestly, I did not. Even now I'm wondering if you're just yankin' me. Sorry, it's just hard to believe they fixed this, even if they really did. Except that we had an option. When my HR21 broke I had no option except to hope that they would fix it. Which was kind of intuitive -- why wouldn't it be the same for you for the HR10? I was just like you at 6.3b when it broke, but since a significant amount of our watching/recording was CBS OTA, just saying "oh well" wasn't an option to me. (Neither was the HR20 at the time)....I'm still not convinced, but if I have too many more nights like last night, I will probably plug the phone line in at least on the 6.3b box. Isn't that how they say you should handle an inevitable rape? "Relax, and enjoy it"? Okay. Now I have to disclaim (in the off chance my opinion might have swayed you). I really only watched 6.3f(the upgrade that you'll get if you plug in now) for a couple of weeks. I didn't have any problems -- certainly not the CBS reboot issue -- but I didn't keep it -- for the reason that some of my hacks wouldn't work right. I'm currently back to 6.3e on both boxes.
2) Possibly my sampling of response to "e" or "f" was not very thorough; I need about a 10-to-1 ratio of "yes this is a fix" to "now they broke something else" to want to make such a leap, and I was only seeing about 2-to-1, if that. Okay now you do sound more like me again, but I'm not sure a ratio of 10:1 might no be a little extreme. I tend to try to find people whose opinions I have faith in, but if the number is 10:1 against I won't go with them. ...no DST issues with the early builds. Me too, which is why I was still on 6.3b till there was a reason to change.
6) Without a PC I have no easy back rev, if any at all. Had I, I probably would have moved the 6.3b box back to 3.1 (which is also rebooting regulary by now)
Who did you think I was again? :)

So bringing us full circle -- Well, PC's are one of my hobbies, so I assumed they are for everyone. (We tend to think that everyone is like us. echo, echo ,echo) OTOH, you may not want to spend what spare time you have messing with your DVRs, but there are some really good reasons to hack the TIVO. You might want to look around the local thrift stores -- Here I see PCs that would work for this application for between 10 and 30 dollars. (It doesn't take much horsepower). I've probably wasted enough bandwidth here, but you can PM if you want. (My feelings won't be hurt if you don't).

[TyroneShoes]

...When my HR21 broke I had no option except to hope that they would fix it. Which was kind of intuitive -- why wouldn't it be the same for you for the HR10? I was just like you at 6.3b when it broke, but since a significant amount of our watching/recording was CBS OTA, just saying "oh well" wasn't an option to me...No. I don't think it really was "just like [me] at 6.3b". I guess the 6.3x issues just never really were that bad for me personally, or bad enough for me to be that desperate. Until recently all I got was the 8-second audio mute every few days or so (which has waned considerably since then) and was a problem I could tolerate. IOW I didn't have a lot of problems, but all of the horror stories kept me from wanting to take any chances until 6.x was definitely fixed (now I'm convinced it never will be). Now, the increasing frequency of reboots is pushing me there even if it's not totally fixed, but it appears that 3.1 is rebooting nearly as often on my other HR10, so I have little faith in that as well.

...PC's are one of my hobbies, so I assumed they are for everyone. (We tend to think that everyone is like us. echo, echo ,echo) OTOH, you may not want to spend what spare time you have messing with your DVRs, but there are some really good reasons to hack the TIVO...I'm just not that jazzed by what the hacks can bring. I would like the option of back revving, but I'm hip-deep inside PCs and servers all day at work, and I just don't really want to get that involved. I have considered running XP on my Macs, though, and Tivo options is one of the reasons.

[LVDsbln]

I was away from home for a few weeks and when I got back my HR10-250 was frozen. I rebooted and it was revived. The freezing and rebooting continued for a few days. I then thought to check on how much free space there was on the drive. I determined that it was full both by counting and sorting the types of recordings and noticing that the TiVo was deleting shows. I deleted about 10HD hours worth and have not had any freezes or reboots in 1 1/2 weeks. It is running 6.3f... It may have been a bad spot on the drive that it was continually trying to write to or the s/w is a little touchy when the disk is full. Anyway, all is currently OK.

[gio1269]

Yes, it's called a HR2X DVR or a Tivo w/Cable! :D

[Ruby]

FWIW, we have been having hanging and restart issues for days now. DTV said it was a disk problem which we found hard to believe. Since we will be eventually terminating DTV because of mpeg 4, non-tivo dvrs, we bought a Tivo HD to record OTA programs while we, hopefully, watch the recorded programs on the H10. I disconnected both satellite inputs and last night we watched about 3 hours without any hang ups or restarts.

I'll let you you know if this continues.

[JimSpence]

My HR10-250 has not suffered from the reboot problem with any software version. After reading this thread, I think this may be related to recording OTA channels. I don't record OTA, so I have no experience there.

[Ruby]

Jim,

Could be. Most of our recording is OTA.

[TyroneShoes]

...I think this may be related to recording OTA channels...You could be on to something. Hard to prove, of course, but many of the reboot threads point to CBS OTA as a common stressor for spontaneous reboots. My own experiences seem to also bear that out. There are a couple of folks who think they have correlated it with CW, but not enough for that to be a smoking gun. Interestingly enough, the "C" in CW stands for one of the owners, CBS, so they may be doing things regarding signal distribution in a similar fashion using similar equipment in many cases.

[BGLeduc]

My HR10-250 has not suffered from the reboot problem with any software version. After reading this thread, I think this may be related to recording OTA channels. I don't record OTA, so I have no experience there.

Well, not in my case, unfortunately.

I have had stuttering and spontaneous reboots while watching live OTA, and HD PPV from the NP list (Crap PQ, BTW...no more HD PPV for me), and while watching SD recordings from the NP list that where still being recorded.

This behavior has gotten increasingly worse in the last month or so. I am guessing that my unit is somewhere around 4 1/2 years old (Hughes branded).

On a minor positive note, as was indicated by a previous poster, I have found that when I start to see stuttering, I can pause, and go back to the NP list. The unit does seem sluggish in doing so, and almost looks to hang, but if I can get back to NP, I can then regain control, and go back to what I was watching, and all will be OK until the next event.

Given the low cost of a new drive from Weak-Knees, and I about ready to give it a try.

The new D* DVR's are not an option for us, and I loath the though of buying new Cable-Card Tivos and switching to Comcast. If a couple hundred bucks would help prolong the life of he HD10-250, I am about ready to take a shot.

Brian

[Ruby]

I reconnected both satellite cables but left the OTA cable off. After about 4 hours, no problems to report.

I find it hard to believe it is disk problem.

[JimSpence]

BTW, version 6.4a is in the works. This is the long awaited spring update for series 2 units.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=393867

[tucsonbill]

BTW, version 6.4a is in the works. This is the long awaited spring update for series 2 units.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=393867
a) well whatever a "Hughes SD-DVR80" is. Doesn't sound like an HD receiver.
b) not to sound like Tyrone, but I really don't jump on a new release just because it's new.
What reason is there that I would want 6.4a?
b)1. If the answer is "online scheduling" I've already posted how impressed I am with that.

[JimSpence]

a) That's an SD DVR which is a series 2. All series 2 DirecTV TiVos (SD & HD) are getting 6.4a. That link relates to SD units, but HD (HR10) is included.
b) This release also adds recently deleted folders.

[TyroneShoes]

...I have had stuttering and spontaneous reboots while watching live OTA, and HD PPV from the NP list...and while watching SD recordings from the NP list that where still being recorded...

...On a minor positive note, as was indicated by a previous poster, I have found that when I start to see stuttering, I can pause, and go back to the NP list. The unit does seem sluggish in doing so, and almost looks to hang, but if I can get back to NP, I can then regain control, and go back to what I was watching, and all will be OK until the next event...That's a good tip. Reboots are sometimes a sign of the unit just becoming overwhelmed with tasks. Going to NP probably terminates some tasks (playback, for instance). Anytime you are watching live you are really recording and playing back, of course, and if you are recording two shows or playing back one that is recording, those are both HDD-intensive tasks (it is much easier to repeatedly move the actuator from the recording position to the playback position when the playback position is located near the record position, but if you delay the playback, that distance increases making the task more difficult). Any sluggishness indicates that it is working hard on other things (or trying to), so going to NP makes sense.

...Given the low cost of a new drive from Weak-Knees, and I about ready to give it a try.

The new D* DVR's are not an option for us, and I loath the though of buying new Cable-Card Tivos and switching to Comcast. If a couple hundred bucks would help prolong the life of he HD10-250, I am about ready to take a shot.

BrianGood luck. I certainly have had nothing but good luck with 4 different drives I bought from them. Can I ask, why is the HR2x not an option?

[BGLeduc]

That's a good tip. Reboots are sometimes a sign of the unit just becoming overwhelmed with tasks. Going to NP probably terminates some tasks (playback, for instance). Anytime you are watching live you are really recording and playing back, of course, and if you are recording two shows or playing back one that is recording, those are both HDD-intensive tasks (it is much easier to repeatedly move the actuator from the recording position to the playback position when the playback position is located near the record position, but if you delay the playback, that distance increases making the task more difficult). Any sluggishness indicates that it is working hard on other things (or trying to), so going to NP makes sense.

Good luck. I certainly have had nothing but good luck with 4 different drives I bought from them. Can I ask, why is the HR2x not an option?

Well, you can ask......:)

Simply put, it would mean no more Tivo.

Being one of those lemmings, that would be a problem.

As for 6.4, personally, none of the new features of any value or interest to me, but it would be hard for the new software to be any worse than 6.3 has become lately, touch wood!

Brian

[TyroneShoes]

...Being one of those lemmings, that would be a problem...it would be hard for the new software to be any worse than 6.3 has become lately...Ah yes. The lemming thing. I think I've been accused of that myself on occasion (wrongly, of course ;)). There are some features I wish the HR2x did that well, however.

With Tivo software in the sorry state it's in, maybe it's a good time to try to become a little more open-minded (not that I'm accusing you of not being, it's just that sometimes that can really help matters).

There was a time when I thought the HR2x resembled a piece of hammered dog-$#!+. Of course at one time, that's exactly what it resembled. But guess what? It evolved, and so did I.

[BGLeduc]

Ah yes. The lemming thing. I think I've been accused of that myself on occasion (wrongly, of course ;)). There are some features I wish the HR2x did that well, however.

With Tivo software in the sorry state it's in, maybe it's a good time to try to become a little more open-minded (not that I'm accusing you of not being, it's just that sometimes that can really help matters).

There was a time when I thought the HR2x resembled a piece of hammered dog-$#!+. Of course at one time, that's exactly what it resembled. But guess what? It evolved, and so did I.

Well, if they would simply let me try it without resetting the 2 year clock, that would help, but of course one can not.

I suppose I need to reread that Tivo vs. HR2x comparison threads again. Last tome I did, there seemed to be too many Tivo features that the HR2x did not do, or did in a convoluted, non-user friendly way in comparison to Tivo. Perhaps things have improved.

One technical question regarding the HR2x.....it is not compatible with diplexors, correct? That is another deal breaker. I would need another coax line brought in to the den, which means yet another hole in the wall.

I get great OTA signal, and I do not trust D* to replicate that, so I would need a solution that maintains my OTA compatibility w/o having to do additional wiring. And I truly HATE the D* guide.

Oh well, lets see what 6.4 brings to the table in terms of stability. BTW, I proudly wear the mantle of "Tivo lemming", although I much prefer the term "Tivo Fan Boy" :D

Brian

[tucsonbill]

a) ....but HD (HR10) is included.
more questions:
1) Where would I find the link that verifies that? Vecause I've looked, and I can't find it.
2) Why is there a 6.4a -- I don't seem to remember 6.4 for the HR10-250.
3) WRT recently deleted folders -- Not sure what that means. Did they screw up and delete folders in 6.3f? in which case maybe Tyrone is right. If it means that I can recover deleted programs, then gee -- another thing that I've already got.

[TyroneShoes]

...WRT recently deleted folders -- Not sure what that means. Did they screw up and delete folders in 6.3f?...If it means that I can recover deleted programs, then gee -- another thing that I've already got.No, it does not mean they inadvertantly deleted the "folders" feature, and yes, it does mean that they added a "deleted programs" folder feature.

[TyroneShoes]

Well, if they would simply let me try it without resetting the 2 year clock, that would help, but of course one can not.

I suppose I need to reread that Tivo vs. HR2x comparison threads again. Last tome I did, there seemed to be too many Tivo features that the HR2x did not do, or did in a convoluted, non-user friendly way in comparison to Tivo. Perhaps things have improved.

One technical question regarding the HR2x.....it is not compatible with diplexors, correct? ...

I get great OTA signal, and I do not trust D* to replicate that, so I would need a solution that maintains my OTA compatibility w/o having to do additional wiring...I am only a 4-year customer, mid-level package (DTV package, that is...not bragging about my "personal" package :D), HBO, 3 PVRs. So I'm a "valued" customer, I guess, but not a top-dollar customer. I replaced one HR10 with a HR20 last winter (free install, free replacement with an offer to do the other two for free), and my clock is due to run out in October. I asked them "will this reset the clock?" and was dumbfounded to hear them tell me it would not.

Honestly, there are only a couple things the HR2x can't do. DLB is one of them. Slo-mo blows out loud on the HR2x, and of course it can't do suggestions. But then it has a lot of features that the HR10 does not, including VOD (DOD, actually), and a lot of slick options cleverly implemented in the menus. Plus it's speedy, and has about 90 more HD channels. IMHO, things have improved exponentially, since it debuted a year and a half ago (I had one for a week back then).

No diplexors allowed. Sorry.

I make my living partly by making sure your HD signals look their best, and have developed a critical eye out of necessity over the last couple decades. But I honestly can not tell the difference between LIL HD and OTA HD, except under extreme circumstances, such as a white flash edit with flash bulbs going off, such as during the Vic Secret special. I recorded it both OTA and LIL just to see if LIL could handle it, and that one definitely suffered from overcompression LIL. But pretty much anything else looks virtually the same, 99.999% of the time.

The advantage of being able to squeeze many more hours of LIL HD onto a HDD than OTA means I never record OTA anymore (except for PBS, and that will be addressed soon I hear), even though I get perfect reception.

[tucsonbill]

No, it does not mean they inadvertantly deleted the "folders" feature, and yes, it does mean that they added a "deleted programs" folder feature.
Yeah. The question was kind of tongue in cheek. Point was -- another feature I already have.

[sjberra]

Yeah. The question was kind of tongue in cheek. Point was -- another feature I already have.

You already have is the key phrase here, unfortunately the majority of the the HR10 end users never did since they cannot hack the system to get this functionality and other functionality that the people that can hack the OS have.

[TyroneShoes]

Yeah. The question was kind of tongue in cheek. Point was -- another feature I already have.Sometimes subtleties don't translate well to the printed page (or monitor).

Just trying to help.

[BGLeduc]

Oh well...I was indulging the fantasy that "f" may have snuck in a fix for the random reboot issue, but alas it is still FUBAR.

Since taking on the upgrade I initially had one week of solid performance, but since then I have had one near miss while watching an OTA HD broadcast (mitigated by getting back to the main menu as previously mentioned) and one complete lock up followed by a spontaneous reboot this morning while my wife was watching a previously recorded SD SciFi network program.

Damn.

BGL

[BGLeduc]

Oh well...I was indulging the fantasy that "f" may have snuck in a fix for the random reboot issue, but alas it is still FUBAR.

Since taking on the upgrade I initially had one week of solid performance, but since then I have had one near miss while watching an OTA HD broadcast (mitigated by getting back to the main menu as previously mentioned) and one complete lock up followed by a spontaneous reboot this morning while my wife was watching a previously recorded SD SciFi network program.

Damn.

BGL

Just to keep the discussion with myself going...

I replaced the harddrive with a 300g Weaknees unit, and have been 100% stable from that point forward (about one month now). It was previously glitching on a daily basis.

As previously discussed, my unit was sufferring from various pauses and spontaneous reboots to the point that the box was getting very close to no longer being usable. This behavior occurred during live OTA viewing (SD and HD), watching HD recordings, and even when watching SD recordings...in other words, on anything and everything. I also would occasionally wake in the the morning to find recordings split in two, which would usually indicate a spontaneous reboot occurred.

So, for about $150, knock wood, my HR10-250 appears to now have a new lease on life. Having said all that, I would agree with various previous posters that this would not seem to have been a drive related issue, but in my case, I would say that it appears that it was.

YMMV.

Brian