C|net blogger relates his "upgrade" experience

[fasTLane]

Disappointed with DirecTV

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13512_1-9891779-23.html?tag=more

[RS4]

Disappointed with DirecTV

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13512_1-9891779-23.html?tag=more

Can you imagine that?:eek: I know it's hard to believe, because according to the HR2x army, everything is wonderful now.:D

[codespy]

Everybody dips their oreo cookie a little differently.

My experience- problems with both HR10's and HR20's. Still have both activated though.

[terpfan1980]

Can you imagine that?:eek: I know it's hard to believe, because according to the HR2x army, everything is wonderful now.:D

And according to DirecTV H8R's such as RS4 nothing DirecTV does will ever be worth a crap, so it seems the stand off continues, right?

[Cruzan]

Everybody dips their oreo cookie a little differently.

My experience- problems with both HR10's and HR20's. Still have both activated though.

Having both is the only way to go. Since the HR20's search just doesn't work, I use the Tivo for sports and movies, but I use the HR20 to snag HD content. I find myself using the HR20 more now for browsing TV since that's what it's tuned for.

I wouldn't want to give up either at this point.

[madbeachcat]

Having both is the only way to go. Since the HR20's search just doesn't work, I use the Tivo for sports and movies, but I use the HR20 to snag HD content. I find myself using the HR20 more now for browsing TV since that's what it's tuned for.

I wouldn't want to give up either at this point.

My search on the the HR21-700 works just fine, thank you very much.:):)

[HiDefGator]

bummer for him. that wasn't how my install went.

[ebonovic]

Can you imagine that?:eek: I know it's hard to believe, because according to the HR2x army, everything is wonderful now.:D

Imagin that... a slam from RS4...

However... as noted in the reply to the blog
That someone actually looks at the two major segments of that blog.

#1 is the appointment/ordering and setup phase, which is indepedent of the unit. and could have just as many issue if it was a TiVo product being installed... or is an installation of TiVo immune from any ordering/appointement and installation issues.

#2 is the unit.

Since he didn't go into details on what he found different, and is waiting to do another review.... could be just as most people find in the first few weeks of switching over from TiVo... things are different, and it takes a while to get used to it.

Nah... couldn't be...

[TyroneShoes]

Imagin that... a slam from RS4...

However... as noted in the reply to the blog
That someone actually looks at the two major segments of that blog.

#1 is the appointment/ordering and setup phase, which is indepedent of the unit. and could have just as many issue if it was a TiVo product being installed... or is an installation of TiVo immune from any ordering/appointement and installation issues?

#2 is the unit...

Thank you, Earl, for pointing that out. And I won't dare to call you "Captain Obvious" because as we can see, some of us (ahem!) on the forum could not scrape enough brain cells together to even make that exceptionally simple distinction.

Since there seems to be some sort of prevailing oxygen-to-the-brain syndrome permeating certain members' posting environments, here's another obvious fact, which is that any blogger begins with about the same credibility as the lamest poster on any forum. They can then begin to earn our credibility if they have the chops, but all bloggers are only created equal to all posters.

Just because "bloggah, please!" is egocentric enough to write his or her travails down in detail for all to see does not in any way elevate them to the status of respected authority.

But then most of you already knew that.

[RS4]

And according to DirecTV H8R's such as RS4 nothing DirecTV does will ever be worth a crap, so it seems the stand off continues, right?

Well, you're right about that. I used to think Direct was one of those companies that was full of innovation, had good service, and was someone that I would highly recommend to anyone, including family and friends. Now in my eyes, they are someone to do business with only as a last resort. They sort of remind me of Microsoft - copying what the others are doing and getting by just enough to hang on to their customers, but innovation and customer support are long gone and probably won't be back for a while.

[jimb726]

Doesnt anyone find it curious that the blogger says that he was hesitant to switch to the HR2X because he had read that they were bad, but he seems surprised that there are things that the HR2X doesnt do that his TiVo did? I would think that is he read all of the boards talkign about how bad the unit was, he certainly would have seen the threads talking about the percieved shortcomings of the unit? I am not talking about hardware issues, thats different and not what he implied, I am talking about software issues like the lack of dlb, channels I receive, lack of TiVo style guide, etc. It sounds like he was set up to dislike it before he even got it.

[ebonovic]

Doesnt anyone find it curious that the blogger says that he was hesitant to switch to the HR2X because he had read that they were bad, but he seems surprised that there are things that the HR2X doesnt do that his TiVo did? I would think that is he read all of the boards talkign about how bad the unit was, he certainly would have seen the threads talking about the percieved shortcomings of the unit? I am not talking about hardware issues, thats different and not what he implied, I am talking about software issues like the lack of dlb, channels I receive, lack of TiVo style guide, etc. It sounds like he was set up to dislike it before he even got it.

Post of the week.... !

[jimb726]

Post of the week.... !

Do I win anything??:D

[nrc]

Why is anyone surprised? Why deny the obvious? The truth is that most HR2x owners would drop their DirecTV DVR in heartbeat if they were offered a TiVo unit that could receive DTV's new HD channels. That's been demonstrated by polls on dbstalk.com over and over.

It's true, all we know for now is that he got poor customer service and he feels like he's stuck with a mediocre DVR that doesn't do all the things his TiVo did. He'll probably learn to live with it and maybe eventually he'll forget what he dislikes about it.

It's true, he is just one individual. But this certainly isn't a unique point of view. It's shared by a lot of customers as demonstrated by the HR2x reviews on CNET, here, and on other technology forums.

Of course DirecTV doesn't care (as I'm sure someone here will point out) . A lot of people may share this opinion, but there aren't enough of them willing to leave DirecTV over it for it to matter to them.

[fasTLane]

http://www.cnet.com/8300-13512_1-23.html

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9894067-1.html

[ebonovic]

Why is anyone surprised? Why deny the obvious? The truth is that most HR2x owners would drop their DirecTV DVR in heartbeat if they were offered a TiVo unit that could receive DTV's new HD channels. That's been demonstrated by polls on dbstalk.com over and over.


In your opinion...

The polls are on a subset of the customer base... and may or may not reflect the ENTIRE coustomer base...

So it is not the "truth" that most HR2X owners would drop the unit in a heartbeat. It is an opinion you carry based on internet anonymous polling...

But hey... maybe you are right..... still doesn't change the fact that 95% of the blog article is about his install experience... with one sentance about the actual unit... and it is generic at that.

What specific shortcommings? Is it possible that the new user to the unit on day one doesn't know where things are, when they are used to them else where?

[ROlsonAZ]

The truth is that most HR2x owners would drop their DirecTV DVR in heartbeat if they were offered a TiVo unit that could receive DTV's new HD channels.

NRC: You seem to be on top of things. Please identify the source of this conclusion.

[magnus]

A 2 year commitment from D* !!! Woohoo!!!

Do I win anything??:D

[RS4]

Thank you, Earl, for pointing that out. And I won't dare to call you "Captain Obvious" because as we can see, some of us (ahem!) on the forum could not scrape enough brain cells together to even make that exceptionally simple distinction.

Since there seems to be some sort of prevailing oxygen-to-the-brain syndrome permeating certain members' posting environments, here's another obvious fact, which is that any blogger begins with about the same credibility as the lamest poster on any forum. They can then begin to earn our credibility if they have the chops, but all bloggers are only created equal to all posters.

Just because "bloggah, please!" is egocentric enough to write his or her travails down in detail for all to see does not in any way elevate them to the status of respected authority.

But then most of you already knew that.

I enjoy your posts because they are usually out in left field somewhere:p But the fact remains that yet another Tivo user is unhappy with his selection. Where are all of the blogs of people raving about the new box? In fact, when you look at the responses to the poster, only one even remotely speaks positive about the HR2x.

[RS4]

In your opinion...

The polls are on a subset of the customer base... and may or may not reflect the ENTIRE coustomer base...

So it is not the "truth" that most HR2X owners would drop the unit in a heartbeat. It is an opinion you carry based on internet anonymous polling...

But hey... maybe you are right..... still doesn't change the fact that 95% of the blog article is about his install experience... with one sentance about the actual unit... and it is generic at that.

What specific shortcommings? Is it possible that the new user to the unit on day one doesn't know where things are, when they are used to them else where?

You do a nice job of pooh poohing the polls that are on your forum.:D Its hard to argue against the results, but you keep right on trying.

I'm curious - why didn't you go after the responders to the blog that were siding with the poster - lamenting the fact that they didn't have Tivos?

You guys do a valiant job of trying to take down any poster who says they like Tivo over the HR2x. Keep up the effort:)

[terpfan1980]

You do a nice job of pooh poohing the polls that are on your forum.:D Its hard to argue against the results, but you keep right on trying.

I'm curious - why didn't you go after the responders to the blog that were siding with the poster - lamenting the fact that they didn't have Tivos?

You guys do a valiant job of trying to take down any poster who says they like Tivo over the HR2x. Keep up the effort:)

You are just as adept at ignoring any polls that don't support your distorted and warped TiVo fanboy point of view so just cut the crap.

[RS4]

You are just as adept at ignoring any polls that don't support your distorted and warped TiVo fanboy point of view so just cut the crap.

He he:D I believe you'll find the un-biased written polls speak for themselves. And if we add in all of the Tivo users who opted not to get the HR20, such as myself, even your poll would show the same results.

[shibby191]

What's funny is that people can lement the fact they have no Tivo or they could prefer a Tivo based box or would switch to a Tivo based back in a heartbeat but if they are still with DirecTV then it really doesn't matter now does it (at least to DirecTV). :D

Facts are this (oh man, going down this road again): Sure, many people that used Tivo before would prefer to keep using Tivo. But the fact is that DirecTV has had to no mass exodus of users because they don't offer Tivo anymore. Commitments have long run out for many people and yet DirecTV keeps on growing and adding new users.

I guess preferring a Tivo UI and actually leaving are 2 separate things which some of you fail to understand. If 90% of former Tivo users would prefer the Tivo UI but only 10% actually leave DirecTV over it then again, it doesn't really matter what they prefer now does it.

[RS4]

What's funny is that people can lement the fact they have no Tivo or they could prefer a Tivo based box or would switch to a Tivo based back in a heartbeat but if they are still with DirecTV then it really doesn't matter now does it (at least to DirecTV). :D

Facts are this (oh man, going down this road again): Sure, many people that used Tivo before would prefer to keep using Tivo. But the fact is that DirecTV has had to no mass exodus of users because they don't offer Tivo anymore. Commitments have long run out for many people and yet DirecTV keeps on growing and adding new users.

I guess preferring a Tivo UI and actually leaving are 2 separate things which some of you fail to understand. If 90% of former Tivo users would prefer the Tivo UI but only 10% actually leave DirecTV over it then again, it doesn't really matter what they prefer now does it.

Face it - the major reason D* is growing at the moment is because of HD. I doubt there are a lot of people coming on board for the dvr. How long will that go on? In the mean time, their customers will need to get used to not using the top-rated product anymore:eek:

And of course, we'll never know how many people would have left if they weren't locked in to a 2-year commitment once they got the HR2x. Maybe we should ask the blogger about this.

So, yes you're absolutely correct that D* continues growing - even with a second or third rated-dvr.

Some people settle for mediocrity, others seek the best:p:p

[shibby191]

Face it - the major reason D* is growing at the moment is because of HD. I doubt there are a lot of people coming on board for the dvr. How long will that go on? In the mean time, their customers will need to get used to not using the top-rated product anymore:eek:

And of course, we'll never know how many people would have left if they weren't locked in to a 2-year commitment once they got the HR2x. Maybe we should ask the blogger about this.

So, yes you're absolutely correct that D* continues growing - even with a second or third rated-dvr:p:p

Well, 50% (and growing) of all new DirecTV customers are getting a DVR. Up from 40% last year. *Most* people sign up with DirecTV (or cable or Dish) for *content/programming*. They get the DVR that is provided. So those new subs aren't signing up because of the DirecTV DVR or because of Tivo or no Tivo. They just sign up to get the channels they want at a good price and get a DVR. And the vast majority of those people have never had Tivo and probably never even seen one in action. So they aren't needing to get used to a "not top rated" DVR anymore because they've never had one! So the fact they are "stuck" in a 2 year commitment really doesn't have any bearing on it not being a Tivo or anything like that.

If everyone only bought the top rated car or used the top rated cell phone carrier there would be only one of each. Some people get stuff that isn't "top rated" and do just fine. ;)

[TonyTheTiger]

Good grief, people, change the record already!

[daperlman]

Imagin that... a slam from RS4...

However... as noted in the reply to the blog
That someone actually looks at the two major segments of that blog.

#1 is the appointment/ordering and setup phase, which is independent of the unit. and could have just as many issue if it was a TiVo product being installed... or is an installation of TiVo immune from any ordering/appointment and installation issues.

#2 is the unit.

Since he didn't go into details on what he found different, and is waiting to do another review.... could be just as most people find in the first few weeks of switching over from TiVo... things are different, and it takes a while to get used to it.

Nah... couldn't be...

You make a good point... which is that the level of service has nothing to do with the unit. Having said that though, it is apparent to me that the level of service has gone down exponentially. One could argue that DTV has shifted priorities into expanding HD programming which balances that out (heck it is the reason I am still there). But that said the service is so terrible these days that from the 5 people I know - it is an exception for basic functionality (receiver and dish that works at all) takes less than 2 or more installations and HR20/21 units. Although problems here and there are nothing new... that level of problems is alarming. In the long run... it ends up costing DTV just as much having to send 2-3 installers to do the same job and having to replace all of these boxes and costs customers several hours of time and frustration.

[MichaelK]

Everybody dips their oreo cookie a little differently.

My experience- problems with both HR10's and HR20's. Still have both activated though.

you dip your oreo's?

yuck!

;)

[nrc]

In your opinion...

The polls are on a subset of the customer base... and may or may not reflect the ENTIRE coustomer base...

So it is not the "truth" that most HR2X owners would drop the unit in a heartbeat. It is an opinion you carry based on internet anonymous polling...

You're right, it's not the entire customer base. No poll ever samples an entire population. It's really not necessary to do that to get a reasonably accurate view of people's attitudes. All you need is a representative sample of sufficient size.

If anything, a sample taken from a DirecTV forum would be more likely to favor DirecTV. The population there are engaged, knowledgeable, and committed to DirecTV.

When you take that in combination with all the other evidence we can be fairly confident that it represents the truth of the situation and not just an isolated or minority opinion.

But hey... maybe you are right..... still doesn't change the fact that 95% of the blog article is about his install experience... with one sentance about the actual unit... and it is generic at that.

What specific shortcommings? Is it possible that the new user to the unit on day one doesn't know where things are, when they are used to them else where?

As I said, all we know right now is that he's gotten poor customer service and what he feels to be a mediocre DVR that lacks the features of his TiVo. Why this is a comfort to you, I'm not sure. He says that details are forthcoming.

I would expect that anyone reasonably knowledgeable about consumer electronics would understand and accept that different products will work differently and that they must make allowances for that during the learning process. Technology writers should be particularly aware of this as they review a wide variety of products.

If your best defense of DirecTV's DVR is to question the validity of technology reviews in general, you're truly reaching. The fact that people can become accustomed to something they don't really like is hardly a glowing endorsement.

[nrc]

Of course DirecTV doesn't care (as I'm sure someone here will point out) . A lot of people may share this opinion, but there aren't enough of them willing to leave DirecTV over it for it to matter to them.

I guess preferring a Tivo UI and actually leaving are 2 separate things which some of you fail to understand. If 90% of former Tivo users would prefer the Tivo UI but only 10% actually leave DirecTV over it then again, it doesn't really matter what they prefer now does it.

Thanks, I already covered that point, but I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't chimed in. Yes, for the foreseeable future DirecTV doesn't have to care what its customers think about their DVR.

[shibby191]

Thanks, I already covered that point, but I'd have been disappointed if you hadn't chimed in. Yes, for the foreseeable future DirecTV doesn't have to care what its customers think about their DVR.

LOL. Yea, I'm bored today, taking a break from yard work.

Let's be honest with ourselves though, DirecTV certainly cares what customers think of their DVR. If they didn't the whole Cutting Edge program wouldn't exist and the units would still suck as they did on release. But it's pretty obvious that the DVR is "good enough" for the masses as seen by record low churn despite lots of non Tivo DVR owners being out of their commitments now. I guess we'll see how that holds over the next year. It may not be good enough for the Tivo fanatic (not saying that's a bad thing) but DirecTV isn't going after that person. The DVR "fanatics" have been in the game for a while now and made their choices. It's the other 95+% of the subs is what they are after.

What they don't really care about is losing someone that prefers someone elses product over their's. My tin foil hat says that is one of the big reasons why DirecTV went with their own DVR. They saw the Tivo loyalty and saw people being more loyal to Tivo then to it. No company wants to be in that position because who knows what might happen with that other company (in this case Tivo could have gone under, bought out by a competitor or just plain didn't want to play ball with new things DirecTV wanted). This would leave them very vulnerable if half or more of the customer base were on Tivo and all of a sudden they lost the ability to fix bugs and keep them updated let alone keep new units churning out. So they nipped it in the bud (for good or ill), seems to have worked so far.

We'll all see what the future holds and I personally hope Tivo can still find success. But the thought that DirecTV "needs" Tivo is just plain fantasy as the facts over the past 3 years show. The next year will be critical in that strategy to see if it holds. If a year from now after the initial HR20/21 subs have been off contract for 6-9 months, if churn isn't way up then I'd say the issue really is dead and buried. Agree? :D

[MichaelK]

I honestly dont know about the directv branded dvr's. Without having played, it looks like in some ways they are better, other ways worse, and in many ways just different.

But the point about "good enough" is a great one.

that's all you have to acheive many times.

There's tons of things where "good enough" is way better to your pocket book then the best.

Look at the arguments about sprint vs verizon cell service. Generally it's accepted that in the northeast verizon's network is the best. But the question people ask- is it worth paying their huge premium when sprint is almost as good. To many sprint is "good enough" and not worth the huge premium.

again not saying that is the case with the directv dvr- but it could be the case. Directv has a lot of other benefits to some people so to them the dvr is good enough to pick directv.

[Mark Lopez]

I will continue to bash a product I have never tried or owned and I will continue to thread crap even though I don't even have DirecTV any more either.

IFYP. ;)

[shibby191]

I honestly dont know about the directv branded dvr's. Without having played, it looks like in some ways they are better, other ways worse, and in many ways just different.

But the point about "good enough" is a great one.

that's all you have to acheive many times.

There's tons of things where "good enough" is way better to your pocket book then the best.

Look at the arguments about sprint vs verizon cell service. Generally it's accepted that in the northeast verizon's network is the best. But the question people ask- is it worth paying their huge premium when sprint is almost as good. To many sprint is "good enough" and not worth the huge premium.

again not saying that is the case with the directv dvr- but it could be the case. Directv has a lot of other benefits to some people so to them the dvr is good enough to pick directv.

Very nice point. Most people don't put the DVR first, they put cost, value and content first. The DVR just comes along for the ride. Not saying it's wrong for some people on this forum to put the DVR first, but that's just not the case for the 100+ million households that are the "unwashed masses" in the DVR world. If that wasn't the case Tivo wouldn't still be struggling and we'd have Tivo in the 35-40 million DVR households instead of just 4 million after 9 years. Again, not putting Tivo down in the least, it's just the reality unfortunately.

[fasTLane]

Mediocrity for the masses.

[TyroneShoes]

...*Most* people sign up with DirecTV (or cable or Dish) for *content/programming*. They get the DVR that is provided...
True. And there certainly aren't many at all that are going AWAY from DTV to get Tivo, and those that are pay a premium for it and end up with an inferior HD pak. And a lot more of them have problems than DirecTivos ever did, due to CableCard issues.

[nrc]

True. And there certainly aren't many at all that are going AWAY from DTV to get Tivo, and those that are pay a premium for it and end up with an inferior HD pak. And a lot more of them have problems than DirecTivos ever did, due to CableCard issues.

I guess I'm lucky. With WOW! I get more of the HD I'm interested in for less money and I've had no cable card problems. I also get the top rated provider in the north central area (ahead of DTV). Since I switched DTV rates have gone up three times and my cable none.

[TyroneShoes]

I enjoy your posts because they are usually out in left field somewhere:p But the fact remains that yet another Tivo user is unhappy with his selection. Where are all of the blogs of people raving about the new box?...
I think there's nearly as much raving on DBSTalk as there is here for the HR10. The polls I read seem to support a far-different conclusion than the one you seem to be dreaming on about.

Uh-huh.

I"M the one out in left field. Right.

Maybe we should have a poll about that.

[TyroneShoes]

...it is apparent to me that the level of service has gone down exponentially...
No disrespect, but an opinion based on your singular experience and commiseration with a couple of like-grumbly friends probably really doesn't mean much. The sample is too small, and the experiences are too anecdotal, similar to the 5 blind guys who each had a completely different impression of the same elephant they "experienced" by each touching it in different places. You're entitled to it, but it just doesn't matter much. On the other hand, it's probably equally as valid as the CNet scribe "Bloggah, Please!" that sparked this thread.

I find myself in the rare position of defending DTV (and I'm the first to skewer them when they F up) but a company's service is perfect as long as you don't experience imperfection, and then it completely sucks out loud when you first do, huh? That has to mean that the company was perfect for everybody during the period you didn't have any issues, and quickly declined to being a bunch of thugs to everybody just before you had an issue. I don't buy that for a minute.

If you are unhappy, change. If they really are incompetent, punish them for it. When everyone follows suit, your opinion will then begin to hold water.

[MichaelK]

True. And there certainly aren't many at all that are going AWAY from DTV to get Tivo, and those that are pay a premium for it and end up with an inferior HD pak. And a lot more of them have problems than DirecTivos ever did, due to CableCard issues.


again- my 2 cents that that isn't true universally.


I actually left directv partially becasue of hte lack of tivo- to tell the truth had they gotten their HD act in order sooner I probably would have stuck around.

But since I left and went to cables triple play I've saved about a THOUSAND dollars in total. That's more then covered my 2 S3's (bought one on day one then waited for prices to drop for the second). ANd yes i factor in all the stupid cable card fees and the tivo monthly fees in that.

My cable company actually moved to make HD "included" with their last price increase in january so my bill basically went DOWN- cant say that ever happened with directv.

As far as inferior- I had about 20 HD channels availible and a DVR that could record them from day 1 including PBS which directv still doesn't have and my RSN right away. Since that time my company has added a pile of HD and we're now up to 31 (even though they dropped the HD tier price and removed HD mirroring fees - it was 6 bucks and 6 bucks mirror - now everything is free except HDnt, HDNet movies, and wealth and they cost just 1.99 without any mirror). I do with that we had the new discovery package- still just discovery theater- but comcast closes their deal here in like 4 days and they have rights to that I think so I beleive shortly I'll have those too.

So making blanket statements for one way or the other is silly.

[MichaelK]

No disrespect, but an opinion based on your singular experience and commiseration with a couple of like-grumbly friends probably really doesn't mean much. The sample is too small, and the experiences are too anecdotal, similar to the 5 blind guys who each had a completely different impression of the same elephant they "experienced" by each touching it in different places. You're entitled to it, but it just doesn't matter much. On the other hand, it's probably equally as valid as the CNet scribe "Bloggah, Please!" that sparked this thread.

I find myself in the rare position of defending DTV (and I'm the first to skewer them when they F up) but a company's service is perfect as long as you don't experience imperfection, and then it completely sucks out loud when you first do, huh? That has to mean that the company was perfect for everybody during the period you didn't have any issues, and quickly declined to being a bunch of thugs to everybody just before you had an issue. I don't buy that for a minute.

If you are unhappy, change. If they really are incompetent, punish them for it. When everyone follows suit, your opinion will then begin to hold water.


did I miss the smiley?

are you seriously saying directv's customer service hasn't gotten worse in the past 10 years?

you must not have had them when they were good. Or you dont read much what is going on now a days.

First- as a whole customer service has gone down hill for like EVERYONE of late- so why would directv be any different? Second their policies are clearly getting less consumer friendly (for a variety of reasons- plenty completely logical). Third more and more of their service is outsourced- they outsource becasue it's cheaper not becasue the providers can do a better job.

[htroberts]

What's funny is that people can lement the fact they have no Tivo or they could prefer a Tivo based box or would switch to a Tivo based back in a heartbeat but if they are still with DirecTV then it really doesn't matter now does it (at least to DirecTV). :D


It may not matter to DirecTV, but it should. Those unhappy but not-quite-unhappy-enough-to-leave customers represent a real risk to DirecTV's future. All that has to happen is for someone to come along with a product that's just a little better than DirecTV's to trigger a mass exodus.

If more companies focused on being the best, rather than being just barely good enough, they'd be more stable in the long run, but, as your line of thinking demonstrates, most of the time in today's world, there's no point in being any better than slightly above median. Watch Idiocracy sometime.

Personally, I think it's unfortunate that we've come to this.

Oh, and it's "lament".

[MichaelK]

I just remembered my favorite "just good enough" story.

It was about one of the major weather services- they strive to be the most accurate- not to be correct, not to try and do their best but just to do slightly better then everyone else.

the way they got to be so big and profitable was by being "good enough" - the founder set up their systems not to ever try and be correct. But rather just to be "more right" then anyone else. Their team of weather dudes looks at all the models and comes up with their forecast. Then they compare it to everyone elses. If they figure it will be 45degrees in NYC tomorrow but the national weather service says 35, and the other major forecasters says 36 then they wont tell anyone 45. even if they are positive they are right and everyone else is wrong they will never say 45. They worry that if they say 45 and the temperature really winds up being 40 that they will be just as wrong as the NWS and less wrong then the other forecasters. So rather then risk being more wrong they play the price is right and say the temperatire will be 37. That way even assuming the forecast comes up 45 like they believe they are still the most accurate and they can advertise themselves as such. If they are supper positive they might get crazy and say 38- but they never prioritze giving the correct forecast- it's only about doing better than everyone else.

The whole point is never to be right just to be less wrong then everyone else.

so unfortunately there is a business model there.

Frankly many might argue tivo does the same thing. Myself I think they do a great job but there is a vocal group here that has a cow about every new feature becasue they beleive tivo should spend no more time adding features and instead spend the next 3 years or whatever it takes eradicating every possible bug and making the box respond faster. I wouldn't be surprised if in those people's mind, tivo apparently is happy being better then everyone else and doesn' try for perfection but rather merely tries to be just a shade better then the others.

[daperlman]

No disrespect, but an opinion based on your singular experience and commiseration with a couple of like-grumbly friends probably really doesn't mean much. The sample is too small, and the experiences are too anecdotal, similar to the 5 blind guys who each had a completely different impression of the same elephant they "experienced" by each touching it in different places. You're entitled to it, but it just doesn't matter much. On the other hand, it's probably equally as valid as the CNet scribe "Bloggah, Please!" that sparked this thread.

I find myself in the rare position of defending DTV (and I'm the first to skewer them when they F up) but a company's service is perfect as long as you don't experience imperfection, and then it completely sucks out loud when you first do, huh? That has to mean that the company was perfect for everybody during the period you didn't have any issues, and quickly declined to being a bunch of thugs to everybody just before you had an issue. I don't buy that for a minute.

If you are unhappy, change. If they really are incompetent, punish them for it. When everyone follows suit, your opinion will then begin to hold water.
Fair enough although the blind person analogy is a little out there. But I do think that there are metrics that can be measured across the board... like hold times, replacement units etc.
Now personally - I went through 3 appointments (before I gave up and called a non-DTV person) and 4 units. You can choose to beleive that I am just unlucky if you like. Ironically I was a DTV evangelist. As for going else where...it is not like other cable /sat companies are doing an excellent job either. I just think it is unforetunate that IMHO the service has gotten much worse. The installers themselves explained to me that the compensation for them has basically caused them to be apathetic. The way I understand it, instead of paying a reduced bill for a pro install company... they have dropped all but a few - and pay $40 an appointment (so they just want to get the heck out of there to the next one).

[fasTLane]

http://www.cnet.com/8301-13512_1-9896534-23.html

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9896534-1.html