Lost : The Other Woman March 6th

[BillL]

Ben has his way with Locke......again

[TiVotion]

First thing out of my mouth was, "Hey, it's the girl from Rescue Me!"

And that Juliet is a bit of a tart, isn't she?

[Shaunnick]

Best. Ending. EVAR.

[scottykempf]

"He knows where to find me."

"See you guys at dinner." lol

[Paperboy2003]

We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!

[scottykempf]

We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!

"I taped over the game."

[Turtleboy]

I look forward to the arguments over misheard dialogue in this ep, there's going to be quite a bit, I think.

So how did Ben get word to the Other Woman?

What were they really trying to do with the gas? It wasn't being released just then, it was fine as it is. I guess they were taking a preemptive measure to disable the gas for future attacks.

I guessed a while ago, and posted, that it was Penny's dad's boat. Who else could of it been? How else would they know about Desmond, and know who Penny is? Who else would have ordered the boat people to not pick up the phone?

[Shaunnick]

We get it, the Red Sox won the World Series (twice...ugh) enough already!!

Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:

"I taped over it."

With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape? :confused:

[Paperboy2003]

They were trying to make the gas inert (harmless)

I took the appearance of Harper (in the rain with Juliet) as a manifestation of the smoke monster. The whispers before and after combined with the quick disappearance makes me thing she wasn't real

[mwhip]

OK so is Goodwin's wife hiding out wherever they have the children now?

[cwoody222]

"I taped over the game" had me LOL'ing.

Said with such Ben seriousness ;)

[mwhip]

Oh and one more thing I noticed. At the beginning when he lied to Juliette you could tell he was lying which Ben being Ben did on purpose because that guy can lie better than anyone. So why did he do it on purpose? Show her that he is in charge?

[TiVotion]

"I taped over the game" had me LOL'ing.

Said with such Ben seriousness ;)

As did, "That rabbit didn't have a number on it, did it?"

[MitchO]

Was Harper the woman who told Jack what his tattoos (really) meant, while he was with the Others?

God, I hate Jack. He looks at every single woman with puppy dog eyes. He switched emotionally from Juliet to Kate to Juliet faster than most people flick the TV channel.

[Rob Helmerichs]

With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape? :confused:
Maybe just knowing that the tape existed was too painful for him.

First he was betrayed by Juliette, then by the Cardinals...

[Shaunnick]

Was Harper the woman who told Jack what his tattoos (really) meant, while he was with the Others?



No, different actress, Diana Scarwig if I am not mistaken. She was the "sherriff" of the others if I remember correctly.

[MitchO]

Yeah just looked it up on Lostpedia. That was Isabel, the judge/sheriff.

[michad]

So the captain on the boat is... Michael, also Ben's informant?

[jeff125va]

I guess on obvious question is whether Penny and her father are cooperating in any way trying to find the island. Given Charles' feelings about Desmond, it doesn't seem like he'd care very much about rescuing him. I guess he could be doing it for his daughter. It's not like we can really trust what Ben said about his motives. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have no idea what the other is doing. It's hard to tell how close they are. I don't recall ever seeing the two of them together. It's always her and Desmond or him and Desmond.

At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.

Never mind, obviously Charles knows about Penny.

[jeff125va]

So the captain on the boat is... Michael, also Ben's informant?

huh?

[Mike Farrington]

I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal. This whole remote viewing / remote presence thing we've been seeing (look for transcripts of the whispers for more information).

All in all, this was my least favorite episode of the season. I think it's just because I don't find Juliet's character all that interesting.

And, was it just me, or were there far more commercials than normal in this episode? Perhaps this was due to the writers strike? Maybe there was no b-camera beachfront dialog written, just the main storyline. I would imagine that the meat of the episodes are written first, then the inconsequential yet humorous Losties banter is written as needed?

[reddice]

Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:

"I taped over it."

With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape? :confused:

Looking at the tape it did not look like a VHS. Maybe Betamax. Could not really see it since I am watching it on a crappy analog TV, feed.

[Cainebj]

Um - have we ever seen Harper before? cos I sure as heck don't remember her...

[Cindy1230]

As did, "That rabbit didn't have a number on it, did it?"

:up::D Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.

So the captain on the boat is... Michael, also Ben's informant?

I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?

First thing out of my mouth was, "Hey, it's the girl from Rescue Me!"

Wow, I didn't recognize her. I guess the dark hair and I kept concentrating on the fact that her forehead was not moving.

[SoBelle0]

I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal. This whole remote viewing / remote presence thing we've been seeing (look for transcripts of the whispers for more information).

All in all, this was my least favorite episode of the season. I think it's just because I don't find Juliet's character all that interesting.

...
I've read some of those whispers transcripts and listened when someone modifies the sound so it's clearer - pretty freaky!! When I was watching, I did wonder if I'd be able to find those pages again - if anyone hears of such being posted, would you be so kind as to include a link? Thanks!

Agreed - the episode was fine, and it probably answered more questions... but what? There wasn't anything that had that AHA! feeling like in many other episodes. I like the AHA! feeling! :)

[Mike Farrington]

Um - have we ever seen Harper before? cos I sure as heck don't remember her...No, I don't think so. It looks like they re-shot the barracks scene to include her. Notice how the actor that plays Ethan Rom wasn't there for this re-shooting of the scene. Sure, they could have spliced in footage, but then they would have had to pay him.

[Bryanmc]

:up::D Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard.
Same here, I was cracking up at that line.

[betts4]

That knock upside the head that Kate got from Charlotte was just plain cold. Ouch.

It was an interesting episode, per norm, few answers given, many more come up.

Best line of the ep -
"It's stressful being an other"

[jeff125va]

:up::D Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.



I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?


Wow, I didn't recognize her. I guess the dark hair and I kept concentrating on the fact that her forehead was not moving.
Yeah, I couldn't place her when she was on Criminal Minds a few weeks ago. I think because of the hair also.

[betts4]

Oh, and how the heck could Daniel type so hard in those rubber gloves?

When that was happening I had a flash to a Simpsons episode with Homer and the nuclear power plant reaching core explosion - so he sat on it to stop it.

[mqpickles]

I don't know if he is the captain.. just ben's man on the boat. And I feel like it's to almost too expected to be him and don't think it would make me "have to sit down," as Ben said. But I guess it would be super shocking to Locke. Could it be anyone else that we would make us super shocked?
Sure, there are more super-shocking possibilities:
Eko
Boone
Pauly Shore

But I still think it's Michael.

[mqpickles]

Preview spoiler:

Next ep. we find out who the 6th member of O6 is. We have Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Which means the speculation about whether Ben or Aaron counts is answered. Yes, one of them, but only one of them counts. It makes more sense to count Aaron than Ben.

On another note, interesting that Juliette is "the other woman" past and present.

Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?

[MickeS]

Best. Ending. EVAR.

I actually laughed out loud at that ending. It was perfect!

I also loved the opening scene - they had me fooled!

[MickeS]

So the captain on the boat is... Michael, also Ben's informant?

Did I miss something? They never showed him saying anything about this, did they? I think everyone speculates that it is though. I would be more surprised if he is NOT the informant, the way he told Locke to have a seat before he told him.

[mqpickles]

I also loved the opening scene - they had me fooled! Yes, very well played.

[bpurcell]

Did I miss something? They never showed him saying anything about this, did they? I think everyone speculates that it is though. I would be more surprised if he is NOT the informant, the way he told Locke to have a seat before he told him.

No, you didn't miss anything. He's just going along with conventional wisdom on the identity of the mole, but I doubt the captain and the mole are the same. For me, if it's not the conventional wisdom person next week, that's the only chance for me to be surprised.

I wasn't enjoying this episode very much. The backstory of Julliette's love life just didn't interest me and didn't move the plot forward at all. If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?

[JYoung]

God, I hate Jack. He looks at every single woman with puppy dog eyes. He switched emotionally from Juliet to Kate to Juliet faster than most people flick the TV channel.

Anything that gets him away from that wishy-washy murderess Kate.
Too bad she couldn't have walked out in time to see them kissing.

Preview spoiler:

Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?

I guess Jack figures that he might as well cut his losses and go with the sure thing.



If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?

He took what Ben considers his. I don't know if you've noticed this or not but this Ben fellow?
He's a tad amoral and crazy.

I had long suspected that Ben had a thing for Juliette. Now it's confirmed.
This also helps explains why Juliette wanted Jack to kill Ben.

One thing though. Where did Charlotte get the gun?

[DevdogAZ]

At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.
I still think Harper is dead. The way she appeared and then disappeared was too much like Walt/Christian. In fact, as the flashback story progressed, I thought for sure we were going to find out that Harper became pregnant and Juliet couldn't save her.

Preview:
It says we'll see a face we never thought we'd see again. Are most people guessing that's Michael? I wondered if maybe it's Naomi, since people have speculated that the voice on the other end of the sat phone sounded just like her, and because of the way they focused on her face several times after she was dead.

[Roadblock]

Best. Ending. EVAR.

Nah.

I guess on obvious question is whether Penny and her father are cooperating in any way trying to find the island. Given Charles' feelings about Desmond, it doesn't seem like he'd care very much about rescuing him. I guess he could be doing it for his daughter. It's not like we can really trust what Ben said about his motives. I wouldn't be surprised if they both have no idea what the other is doing. It's hard to tell how close they are. I don't recall ever seeing the two of them together. It's always her and Desmond or him and Desmond.

He's not trying to find the island to save Desmond.

I took Harper's appearance to be the whispers finally revealing themselves for once. I thought it was quite a big deal.

What do you mean?

Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?

Big Love, island style. It was Juliette's day.


Preview:
It says we'll see a face we never thought we'd see again. Are most people guessing that's Michael? I wondered if maybe it's Naomi, since people have speculated that the voice on the other end of the sat phone sounded just like her, and because of the way they focused on her face several times after she was dead.

I'm guessing they're stretching that 'never thought we'd see again' to mean Michael, but I don't know anyone who wasn't expecting to see Michael again. Hopefully it will be someone else.

[Rob Helmerichs]

:up::D Hilarious! I had to pause cause I was laughing so hard. Ben had a lot of great one liners this episode.
Indeed.

But the thing that interested me is how much smarter than Locke Ben is, and how much that is starting to bother Locke. When Locke would try to walk out the door and Ben would make a cryptic comment, you could almost hear the wheels creaking in Locke's head--"He's playing games with me, don't fall for it, oh hell, I can't help myself," and he goes back in like a puppet on a string. If Locke loses sight of the fact that it's not his brains that got him this far, he could easily be goaded into making stupid, rash decisions--which obviously is what Ben is trying to provoke.

[Jeeters]

So I thought some of what happened inside the Tempest seemed to be an homage to the first Alien movie. The first thing I noticed was the voice of the computer... it just sounded so familiar. Then the "Manual Override has been blah blah blah", along with the hissing coming out of the pipes. Just seemed so "Alien".

[Indiana627]

Best line of the ep -
"It's stressful being an other"
I totally agree. There were a lot of good lines as already mentioned. Ben's question about the rabbit he was about to eat having a number on it was almost as good.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I totally agree. There were a lot of good lines as already mentioned. Ben's question about the rabbit he was about to eat having a number on it was almost as good.
The episode was written by Drew Goddard, who coincidentally also wrote this week's issue of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer Season 8 comic book--which also features a ton of great lines, most of them during a hilarious post-coital scene.

[scottykempf]

That knock upside the head that Kate got from Charlotte was just plain cold. Ouch.



Kate was stupid for turning her back on someone she doesn't trust who also happens to have a gun.

[TriBruin]

Preview spoiler:

Next ep. we find out who the 6th member of O6 is. We have Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Which means the speculation about whether Ben or Aaron counts is answered. Yes, one of them, but only one of them counts. It makes more sense to count Aaron than Ben.



That may not be true

I think that next week is a Jin/Sun episode. It could be that both of them are part of the O6. Not ruling out your theory, but we will have to wait and see.

[TheGreyOwl]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.

[Turtleboy]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.

It's impossible for it to be Sayid, unless there is some stupid time travel plot that will make me stop watching the show.

It's Michael. Harold Perrinaeu has been in the credits since the beginning of the season. It's about time that he shows up.

On a separate note, I didn't get it at the time, but I now agree that the Harper who appeared to Juliet wasn't Harper at all, but the Smoke Monster taking her form. The whispering before and after, and her ability to vanish into thin air is pretty strong evidence of that.

[kdelande]

No, I don't think so. It looks like they re-shot the barracks scene to include her. Notice how the actor that plays Ethan Rom wasn't there for this re-shooting of the scene. Sure, they could have spliced in footage, but then they would have had to pay him.

I wouldn't say they reshot the barracks scene, just added a few shots of Juliet and Goodwin and Harper looking at each other. The rest that we recognize was recycled.

KD

[philw1776]

But the thing that interested me is how much smarter than Locke Ben is, and how much that is starting to bother Locke. When Locke would try to walk out the door and Ben would make a cryptic comment, you could almost hear the wheels creaking in Locke's head--"He's playing games with me, don't fall for it, oh hell, I can't help myself," and he goes back in like a puppet on a string. If Locke loses sight of the fact that it's not his brains that got him this far, he could easily be goaded into making stupid, rash decisions--which obviously is what Ben is trying to provoke.

My thoughts as well. Locke just can't help himself. The interactions are very well written and Ben's character well developed and acted.

An example of weaker writing and character development is Jack blithely switching from Kate to Juliette in picoseconds. On second thought, cancel that...it's a target rich environment and Jack is a male.
Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.

[super dave]

How many episodes are left? Too many questions, again, with few answers. Argh!

[robbhimself]

we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night.. i thought the producers said they learned their lesson on that and wouldn't try it again (inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there).. ben asking if the rabbit having a number was the best line of the episode, but it was still pretty weak compared to recent episodes

[philw1776]

How many episodes are left? Too many questions, again, with few answers. Argh!

Admitedly, last night's might well be the weakest episode this brief season but there was some snappy funny dialog. Overall a well-spent too-brief hour of TV. The only TV series I've watched since mid Jan.

[jeff125va]

He's not trying to find the island to save Desmond.

I'm guessing they're stretching that 'never thought we'd see again' to mean Michael, but I don't know anyone who wasn't expecting to see Michael again. Hopefully it will be someone else.
Yeah, I wrote all that having forgotten about what Minkowski said about not being allowed to answer the phone if it was Penny. I should have edited that whole post to say "duh."
I agree that they're overstating it, but in my mind that pretty much confirms it. Maybe just because I've been speculating that it will be Michael, because it makes sense since he had sent him in the same general direction.
That may not be true

I think that next week is a Jin/Sun episode. It could be that both of them are part of the O6. Not ruling out your theory, but we will have to wait and see.
I agree. That would make sense since they said we'll find out "the rest" or the O6 and we presumably know 4, if we don't count Aaron. And they were featured in the previews.

[pmyers]

c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....

[MasterCephus]

What's the big deal about Jack having a thing for both Kate & Juliette? I don't see this as an issue. I am sure everyone has had a time when they were torn between two people...and I think it's just multiplied by being in such a stressful situation they are in.

[jeff125va]

Preview spoiler:

Next ep. we find out who the 6th member of O6 is. We have Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sayid. Which means the speculation about whether Ben or Aaron counts is answered. Yes, one of them, but only one of them counts. It makes more sense to count Aaron than Ben.

On another note, interesting that Juliette is "the other woman" past and present.

Okay, timekeepers (Jeff125), how long between Jack telling Kate he loves her and him kissing Juliette? A couple days tops?
Yeah, I think there are often parallels between the present events and the flashbacks/forwards. Speaking of that, did anyone fall for their attempt to make us think that it was a flashforward and that Juliet was one of the O6? The stuff about being treated like a celebrity, etc.? I didn't, but my son started saying ooh she's one of the Oceanic Six.

That was Dec. 23, this episode was Dec. 27. But he also kissed Juliet just a few minutes before he told her that (in TTLG). But I agree with JYoung. I don't think Jack is being pathetic in this regard. Why waste his time with Kate when she can't make up her mind between him and Sawyer. And Juliet in that wet t-shirt would have helped make up my mind. ;)

We could be finding out #5 and #6. See some of the other spoilerized posts about Sun and Jin speculation

Speaking of dates, we really didn't get any new information regarding the apparent date discrepancy we discussed in last week's thread.

[Fool Me Twice]

we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night..(inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there)..
Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other

Kate was stupid for turning her back on someone she doesn't trust who also happens to have a gun.
So unlike the wily Kate. But, a mediocre writer should never let character stand in the way of cliché.

I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.

[jeff125va]

c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....
I only spoilerized mine because I referred to stuff in the previews.

But ignoring the previews, I think and have thought that it's Michael. Ben had sent him off in pretty much the same direction (I think it was a different bearing than the helicopter used, but they left from a different spot on the island. Or the ship had moved perhaps. How long did they say they'd been there? And I do think what Ben said to Locke would fit with it being Michael.

[Fool Me Twice]

And Juliet in that wet t-shirt...

...running. Oh, my... I had to pause the show to go get my head straight. I'm kidding, but not really.

[jeff125va]

Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other
I sort of agree about the non-communication, especially about Faraday and Charlotte. But I think that Juliet would have tried even harder to stop them if she'd been able to confront them well before they'd gotten to the Tempest. I think their seeming lack of concern about putting their gas masks back on convinced her (along with her knowing what a liar Ben is) that they were telling the truth. So their secrecy was sort of justified.

I was also thinking what a difference it would make if Locke mentioned to Desmond what he knows about Charles Widmore. But it doesn't seem that that will happen any time soon.

[philw1776]

I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.

Agreed, but I'm working really hard to overcome my antipathy to the Brits after that 1776 and 1812 thing.

[TiVotion]

A couple thoughts struck me when Goodwin's wife "appeared" to Juliette in the middle of the jungle, in the rain.

First thing I thought was, she's not "real". After all, where did she come from? Where has she been? Wandering around in the jungle all these days? And now, in the rain?

Oddly, Juliette started a dialog with her. If I was Juliette, the first words out of my mouth would have been, "What the (expletive deleted), where the (expletive deleted) did you come from? What are you doing out here in the rain?" But oddly, Juliette just started talking to her as if she'd popped over from next door to borrow a cup of sugar.

Then, strangely, Jack walked up. I thought, OK, Jack's going to look at Juliette and say, "uh, are you nuts? who are you talking to?" But Jack could see Goodwin's wife also.

Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?

And of course, are these tied to the "smoke monster"? It's beginning to seem to me that the smoke/whispers somehow could coincide with the appearance of some living being in the middle of nowhere.

[jeff125va]

Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?
Sayid saw Walt when Shannon did, but he didn't say anything until later when she asked him. Or he asked her or something like that. And they did not both talk to him. And Walt was talking backwards.

My guess is that either we'll find out that she's dead and Juliet just isn't easily spooked, or that Ben just sort of had her waiting in the wings because I'd be surprised if he's been able to make contact with her while locked up. Of course, there could be more secret passages in the barracks. I doubt that she's helping Ben out of loyalty - it would have to either be fear of Ben or fear of being poison gassed.

[cwoody222]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid.

My one friend thinks that too.

I think it's the guy who's been in the credits for the past 6 episodes and hasn't shown up yet :D

[michad]

Since speculation doesnt have to be spoilerized, what if Jacob is on the boat. Might explain why Locke couldnt find him and why Ben would have him sit down before telling him.

[bpurcell]

If Ben was that revenge thinking, what did the other guy do to deserve being killed?

He took what Ben considers his. I don't know if you've noticed this or not but this Ben fellow?
He's a tad amoral and crazy.

Actually, I was referring to Ethan, not Goodwin. It was late last night, and I couldn't remember the names. I was also too lazy to head over to lostpedia to find out. So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?

[jeff125va]

Actually, I was referring to Ethan, not Goodwin. It was late last night, and I couldn't remember the names. I was also too lazy to head over to lostpedia to find out. So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?
I think the point was that Goodwin was the first person he sent out. I don't think we can assume that he thought they would all be killed.

It would be interesting to go back and watch the previous episodes where he referred to Ethan and Goodwin's deaths. I think he mentioned Ethan's once when he was talking to Jack or someone about the back surgery and said that they had killed their only other surgeon. I wonder if his tone or expression would have given anything away. I can't recall any specific occasions where he'd mentioned Goodwin though.

[MickeS]

Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?

Kate and Sawyer both saw the horse.

[Mike Farrington]

I think the point was that Goodwin was the first person he sent out. I don't think we can assume that he thought they would all be killed.

It would be interesting to go back and watch the previous episodes where he referred to Ethan and Goodwin's deaths. I think he mentioned Ethan's once when he was talking to Jack or someone about the back surgery and said that they had killed their only other surgeon. I wonder if his tone or expression would have given anything away. I can't recall any specific occasions where he'd mentioned Goodwin though.In retrospect, why did Ben send his surgeon and power station manager instead of a couple of his "marines".

[jeff125va]

In retrospect, why did Ben send his surgeon and power station manager instead of a couple of his "marines".
Well, we know why he sent his power station manager. Maybe with Ethan it was more about blending in?

[packerfan]

Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?

[3D]

They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt. Ben had Walt for a long time and could easily have indoctrinated him into the ways of the Others. To me, this is the only thing that would make sense and still be surprising (Michael also makes sense, but would only be surprising to the most casual of "Lost" viewers).

[stevieleej]

If the writers really want a shocking moment when revealing Ben's 'man on the boat', instead of him being Michael (who we'd all expect), make it Eko, Boone, Ana-Lucia or Libby (who I always thought was an Other).

[jeff125va]

Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?
They went to the Temple, which we know nothing about. Yes it was last season but it's only been four days on the island.

[TriBruin]

Is anyone else wondering where the rest of the "others" are at? We really haven't seen them since last season. Are they on island #2?

I was thinking about this last night. I have a feeling Richard and the others (pun intended) will come back in before too long.

[ElJay]

Lost: "Another Soap Opera Episode"

[jeff125va]

They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt. Ben had Walt for a long time and could easily have indoctrinated him into the ways of the Others. To me, this is the only thing that would make sense and still be surprising (Michael also makes sense, but would only be surprising to the most casual of "Lost" viewers).
But he apparently didn't, unless Walt had completely turned on his father and was putting on an act when they let them reunite in the tent. But yes, it would be more surprising. And based on what Walt said to Locke, he apparently believes that the people on the ship have bad intentions for all of them (not just Ben).

[gchance]

May I just say that even though I wasn't able to watch last night, I'm enjoying reading the natives discuss? :P

Greg

[Donbadabon]

According to Ben, Widmore is trying to find the island to exploit it.

And it is reasonable that Widmore found out about the island through the Black Rock
Journal.

I remember seeing "Widmore Industries" somewhere on the island in a previous episode. Was it when they found the real Henry Gale? Wasn't Widmore the maker of the parachute?

If so, that would mean Widmore has been trying to get to the island for some time now.

[DevdogAZ]

we got 'paulo and nikki'd' last night.. i thought the producers said they learned their lesson on that and wouldn't try it again (inserting new characters into previous scenes like they were always there).. ben asking if the rabbit having a number was the best line of the episode, but it was still pretty weak compared to recent episodes
I don't think we got "Paulo and Nikki'd" at all. Are you trying to say that Juliet wasn't present the first time they showed us the barracks scene? Of course she was, because they had all just been at book club in her house. The fact that they showed us one scene with her looking at Goodwin doesn't mean they revised history.
c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....
Mine was spoilerized because it was specifically talking about the wording in the preview.
Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?
Interesting that you remembered the horse but didn't remember the scene where both Kate and Sawyer saw it at the same time (already pointed out by MickeS).

[Jstkiddn]

At first I thought that Goodwin's wife was dead and/or appearing like Walt did, especially after we heard all the whispering. But I doubt that if it was supernatural in any way they wouldn't have let us know in this episode. It's just not the usual m.o.

I think that the smoke monster, walt, Goodwin's wife, etc are all some sort of illusion/hologram "thing" that Ben and his people can conjure up by somehow tapping into the time-shifting power surrounding the island.

That made no sense, did it? ;)

[stevieleej]

Michael is the easy choice for being on the boat. Just capture Walt again and tell Michael he has to help you to get Walt back.

But he wouldn't be the fun choice. If it were someone like Boone, Locke would be floored since he and Boone were so close.

[DevdogAZ]

According to Ben, Widmore is trying to find the island to exploit it.

And it is reasonable that Widmore found out about the island through the Black Rock
Journal.

I remember seeing "Widmore Industries" somewhere on the island in a previous episode. Was it when they found the real Henry Gale? Wasn't Widmore the maker of the parachute?

If so, that would mean Widmore has been trying to get to the island for some time now.
I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal. I think that was the reason he was there buying that item, because he already knew that it likely contained valuable info about the island.

I'm pretty sure that when we saw a pregnancy test quite a while ago, it said Widmore Industries on it.

[jeff125va]

Michael is the easy choice for being on the boat. Just capture Walt again and tell Michael he has to help you to get Walt back.

But he wouldn't be the fun choice. If it were someone like Boone, Locke would be floored since he and Boone were so close.
Yeah, that would be one reason. I think it would have more to do with Boone being dead, though.

I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.

[JYoung]

Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.

Let's see if you feel the same way after she gets you worked up and then goes and jumps in the sack with someone else.



I was also thinking what a difference it would make if Locke mentioned to Desmond what he knows about Charles Widmore. But it doesn't seem that that will happen any time soon.

With Desmond on the boat and Locke at the compound, that would be difficult.

[Donbadabon]

I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal.

I was assuming Widmore was looking to find the Black Rock, and was going to use the journal to help locate it. And then found out about the island from the journal.

Could go either way. Unless they've said something that I missed.

[jeff125va]

I think Widmore knew about the island long before buying the journal. I think that was the reason he was there buying that item, because he already knew that it likely contained valuable info about the island.

I'm pretty sure that when we saw a pregnancy test quite a while ago, it said Widmore Industries on it.
Right, Widmore Labs manufactured both the balloon and the pregnancy test.

And yes, I doubt it's a coincidence that he's interested in the Black Rock. I'm starting to wonder if the Black Rock being so far inland has something to do with time/space discontinuity. Could it have appeared there like the rabbit in the Orchid film? I guess it could easily be a much simpler explanation, like some sort of flood or tsunami type event.

[teknikel]

Obviously Ben is not a Sox fan:

"I taped over it."

With all of his resources, he couldn't afford to buy a new VHS tape? :confused:

Looking at the tape it did not look like a VHS. Maybe Betamax. Could not really see it since I am watching it on a crappy analog TV, feed.

It was a u-matic 3/4" tape.

I don't think he could have gotten more than 75-90 minutes of a game on it. I assume it was a World Series game (3+ hours). Probably the last game. Could be a highlight reel.

Did we see Ben watching this tape earlier? Jack saw it right?

If so, this tape of Widmore would be recorded between late October and "the present"? This would not be an original recording. It would have to have been either dubbed and sent to him or transmitted to him and recorded during transmission.

Don't know if any of this has meaning. Just some thoughts.

[jeff125va]

With Desmond on the boat and Locke at the compound, that would be difficult.
Well that was my point. I.e., at least there's a clear reason for their lack of communication. But I wonder if Desmond would be suspicious of Widmore's intentions or just think that he's helping Penny? I guess since he knows that Minkowski wasn't supposed to answer the phone if it was Penny, he'd figure it out.

[jeff125va]

It was a u-matic 3/4" tape.

I don't think he could have gotten more than 75-90 minutes of a game on it. I assume it was a World Series game (3+ hours). Probably the last game. Could be a highlight reel.

Did we see Ben watching this tape earlier? Jack saw it right?

If so, this tape of Widmore would be recorded between late October and "the present"? This would not be an original recording. It would have to have been either dubbed and sent to him or transmitted to him and recorded during transmission.

Don't know if any of this has meaning. Just some thoughts.
All we ever really saw was the last pitch, IIRC.

Well, all that tells us is when Ben put the recording on that particular tape. I don't think it gives us any clue whatsoever as to when the camera originally recorded it.

[MickeS]

I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious.

Sometimes "obvious" is just good storytelling. :)

[Rob Helmerichs]

According to Ben...
Well, once you've typed that, anything that follows might as well be random keystrokes...

[pmyers]

Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha

[Jstkiddn]

Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha



Hmmmmmm........that is a very interesting theory! :eek:

[Mike Farrington]

Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. hahaI've thought that at times too. What if been has/had mastered the time-travel stuff? Not the consciousness time-travel as depicted by Desmond and Eloise, but the physical time-travel demonstrated on the Orchid orientation video. That would be wild.

[HoosierFan]

But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.

[jeff125va]

But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.
I was thinking that Ben must have done more than just told him who his man was. He could have just made up anyone. I think Locke would have required some sort of proof, or at least strong evidence. I mean the guy just shot him and left him for dead a couple days ago.

[getreal]

And, was it just me, or were there far more commercials than normal in this episode? Perhaps this was due to the writers strike? Maybe there was no b-camera beachfront dialog written, just the main storyline. I would imagine that the meat of the episodes are written first, then the inconsequential yet humorous Losties banter is written as needed?

I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.

[MitchO]

Well, if you follow the logic that because he sent Goodwin out on the mission with the intent of getting him killed, he also intended for Ethan to be killed eventually, it could be because Ethan's death makes Juliet that much more invaluable to the Others, giving her more of a reason to stay.

[tewcewl]

I liked this episode, while I agree with the general consensus that it was kind of slow and not as "gee-whiz" as the earlier episodes. We gotta slow down and catch our breath sometimes. :)

That is not to say that this episode wasn't revealing. A few thoughts:

- I am convinced (as my wife is, too) that Harper isn't real. Or at least post-Other appearance. Her showing up in the middle of the rainstorm (remember the rain is always a foreshadowing of something "magical" happening) AND the voices AND her disappearing immediately lend credence to the fact that she could be an apparition like Dave, Eko's brother, Kate's horse(? - this was never confirmed either way). Why does Harper have to be not real? Other than the clues I listed above, the biggest one is that Juliet was right: there's no way that Ben would know what's going on when it's going on. C'mon, do you think he knew the EXACT minute that Farady and Charlotte left the beach to go to the Tempest while being locked up in his own basement by Locke?

- Which leads me to the possible clue that there's may be more than one spiritual/otherworldly island factions that are running around the island, one good, the other bad. Or even more chilling, is there just the bad? Does the Bad Island Faction via the Smoke Monster want to get rid of the people who are living there by goading Juliet into killing Charlotte and Faraday, knowing that with their demise, the gas can be used to kill everybody else? Remember even Ben and the Others don't know what the Smoke Monster is, just how to repel it.

- Or is it, like some people have mentioned here, a clue into the ability for the Others to remote view and communicate via long distances from a different spot? (I remain a skeptic of this one.)

- It makes sense that Jack has chosen Juliet. He told Kate that he loved her, but she still went off with Sawyer. Having been burned by Kate, of course, he's going to go to the other available girl who likes him. There's no leap of logic really required here like some people are saying. In this messy love quadrangle, Kate is now going to have to deal with the consequences of Jack's choice.

- Michael Emerson must be LOVING Ben because this is a complex, plum role that doesn't come very often. This show, while Juliet-centric, was also very much Ben-centric, showing him as a seriously petty, possessive, and angry man. It's obvious (as Goodwin said) that Juliet reminds Ben of his young child love. We get to see Goodwin a little bit fleshed out and why Goodwin was chosen to go on his mission. I love how LOST can continue to flesh out secondary characters even though they're dead.

- We also find out that the Tailie kids haven't been forgotten and that they were abducted due to being on "a list." This was done and said in a passing scene, so this was another clue being planted.

- We didn't get "Paulo and Nikki'd" as someone said here. I was in the minority that loved that episode and how it worked as a great, self-aware standalone episode. Here, rather than use the device of re-staging a scene to wink at the audience, they used it to add extra details and gravitas of what that scene meant in Juliet's life.

- And that scene when Elizabeth Mitchell comes out of the water? Hubba, hubba. :D

- I, also, was tricked in the beginning, especially by the "celebrity" line. Well played, guys, well played. Plus, it was nice to see Mr. Friendly again.

- This episode FINALLY plays the Widmore card and ties him and his company into the island intrigue. We know what an ass he is from previous episodes and seeing that tape didn't help either. What is his ultimate goal? Is it profit, like Ben suggested, or something else? In playing this card, they've effectively anchored Desmond even deeper in the meta-story.

- Back to Ben. The genius of this episode was in the beginning and in the reveal of Widmore, you start to feel like you can trust him again, and then at the end, when we discover Charlotte and Faraday's true end game and seeing how petty he was with Juliet, the rug was pulled out of us once again. Ben's like the boyfriend that promises us he'll change and we keep going back to him for whatever reason and he keeps betraying us time and time again and yet, we keep going back to him!

- Finally, this episode was full of hilarious one-liners. Like Rob, I also attribute it to Drew Goddard. I've liked that man since Buffy.
- "Did that rabbit have a number on it?"
- "I taped over the game."
- "It's stressful being an Other."
- "I'll take their word for it."
- "What ARE you doing out?" "I'll see you guys at dinner." :p Great ending.

[getreal]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.

As I understood it, it was Ben's "man on the boat" who revealed to him the identities and mission of the crew who had come for Ben.

[MickeS]

But if that is what Ben told Locke, he wouldn't be walking around free. Locke wouldn't have believed him, and thought he was nuts.

Locke likes to be duped, if it means it makes him feel important. This has been shown over and over. Ben is a master of manipulation. It would be easy for Ben to convince Locke to free him, IMO.

[astrohip]

I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.
To those who waste too much time hanging around these forums, he is a bit obvious. But not only do we do frame-by-frame analysis, we read the credits looking for clues, listen to Podcasts, etc.

The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.

[JYoung]

Could Ben be the actual spy on the ship? Could he be in some time loop like Desmond was? Perhaps that's why Ben always seems to know stuff he has no way of knowing......whoa.....I think I just blew my own mind. haha

I had a similar thought in that someone in Ben's group could be like Desmond.
A bit unstuck in time and can get flashes of the future.

Could this person be Harper?

Can Harper project like Walt?

[Cindy1230]

It's obvious (as Goodwin said) that Juliet reminds Ben of his young child love.

Well it's never safe to assume anything, but it does kind of confirm that Annie is long gone. Not that I was biting my nails to get an answer to this one.
She could have either died in the purge or maybe Ben got her pregnant and she died then.

[getreal]

I don't understand why people here keep speculating that some people who were never listed on the Oceanic 815 mainfest could be included as a member of the Oceanic 6. :confused: It seems to me that if you arrived at the island in utero, or via submarine, or yacht, or freighter, then you were not included on the Flight 815 manifest and are therefore disqualified from membership in the "Oceanic 6".

Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.

But I don't think I am.

Also, the whole communication thing. Faraday and Lewis didn't need to create the feelings of distrust and paranoia if they were just open and honest from the beginning.

Oh well -- dramatic tension.

And Locke and Ben ... if Locke just kept Ben gagged, and brought him food which had been run through a blender, then Ben could just drink his food through a straw and Locke wouldn't be susceptible to Ben's mind games.

I was half-expecting (during scenes at Locke's camp) to hear a distant explosion indicating that Miles couldn't keep that grenade in his mouth for that long.

[getreal]

One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.

It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.

:confused:

[jeff125va]

I don't understand why people here keep speculating that some people who were never listed on the Oceanic 815 mainfest could be included as a member of the Oceanic 6. :confused: It seems to me that if you arrived at the island in utero, or via submarine, or yacht, or freighter, then you were not included on the Flight 815 manifest and are therefore disqualified from membership in the "Oceanic 6".

Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.

But I don't think I am...
Disqualified from membership? I never got the impression that this was a group with formal by-laws defining the qualifications for membership. And if it were, I'm not sure why they'd exclude in-utero travelers.

Not that I think Aaron is one of the Six, but we really don't know who coined the phrase or a lot of other things for that matter. I happen to think all 6 were passengers on the flight, but I don't think other speculation is unreasonable. If five of them were on the plane and one wasn't, I don't think a title like "The five people who were on Oceanic 815 and one other person who just happened to be on the island where they crashed and came back with them" would be quite as catchy.

[Jeeters]

I agree, Michael is starting to seem too obvious. But I still think it's someone who is still alive.Michael is supposed to be dead? I thought he left the island on a boat with Walt?

Yes, to me it's obvious that it's Michael. But I don't think it would be so obvious if Harold's name hasn't continually been in the credits.

[Rakim]

Disqualified from membership? I never got the impression that this was a group with formal by-laws defining the qualifications for membership. And if it were, I'm not sure why they'd exclude in-utero travelers.

Actually, there ARE qualifications for membership, if you believe Henry Ian Cusick:

Q: We are learning one by one who make up the Oceanic Six, so far revealed to be Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Kate and maybe (the show's not confirming) baby Aaron. Since Desmond was never on Flight 815, can we assume he does not turn out to be one of the six?

A: That's what all of us were trying to figure out when we were receiving the scripts. I think it suddenly dawned on us that you had to be an original passenger on the plane that went down to be an Oceanic Six.

[jeff125va]

Michael is supposed to be dead? I thought he left the island on a boat with Walt?

Yes, to me it's obvious that it's Michael. But I don't think it would be so obvious if Harold's name hasn't continually been in the credits.
I was referring to the other people mentioned in the posts I was responding to. In other words, it might not be Michael, but it definitely isn't Boone, Eko, Libby or Ana-Lucia.

[philw1776]

One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.

It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.

:confused:

As a science guy I recognize and acknowlege that LOST pays lip service only to the Laws of Physics as we currently understand them. They love the buzz words but don't grok the content. Let it go.

[tem]

this show is reminding me more and more of playing Myst or Riven. Especially when Juliette walks to the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?) and stands there for a second trying to figure out how to open the door when the control panel is broken. Oh ! Look ! All I have to do is pull this counterweight and the giant door will open ! But then, how did the others get inside and *then* smash the panel and close the door ? Are counterweights on both sides ?

[cwoody222]

If the writers really want a shocking moment when revealing Ben's 'man on the boat', instead of him being Michael (who we'd all expect), make it Eko, Boone, Ana-Lucia or Libby (who I always thought was an Other).



Libby was supposed to re-appear this season (no idea in what regard) but her appearance will likely be cut to the writer's strike... both because of an actor conflict and that episode be cut / changed to fit in the abbreviated schedule.

[jeff125va]

Actually, there ARE qualifications for membership, if you believe Henry Ian Cusick:

Q: We are learning one by one who make up the Oceanic Six, so far revealed to be Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Kate and maybe (the show's not confirming) baby Aaron. Since Desmond was never on Flight 815, can we assume he does not turn out to be one of the six?

A: That's what all of us were trying to figure out when we were receiving the scripts. I think it suddenly dawned on us that you had to be an original passenger on the plane that went down to be an Oceanic Six.

It sounds like he's inferring that based on his knowledge of who they are from reading the scripts. And by saying that "it dawned on [them]", he might be implying only that it just happens to turn out that they all were on the plane. Unless, of course, he means that there are some people who do get rescued with them who weren't on the plane and aren't part of "The Six." It could be that Aaron isn't counted simply because he's a baby, who knows? In any case, based on what we know at this point just as viewers, other speculation is still reasonable.

[JMikeD]

One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.

It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.

:confused:

It's entirely possible for two pieces of an aircraft to go in quite different trajectories/vectors. Both pieces were of differing masses with differing airfoils attached. In a real life incident, I would have been surprised if they had landed in the same place. We don't know the altitude of the incident, or what external forces were acting on the fuselage (i.e., what exactly ripped the aircraft apart).

Since it's a fictional incident for dramatic effect, it makes no difference. It did what it did.

Mike
(long-time aviation enthusiast)

[jeff125va]

... the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?) ...
Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.

[cwoody222]

I've thought that at times too. What if been has/had mastered the time-travel stuff? Not the consciousness time-travel as depicted by Desmond and Eloise, but the physical time-travel demonstrated on the Orchid orientation video. That would be wild.

Can someone remind me what / when the Orchid video was?

I thought that they already had 8 episodes completed before the writer's strike.

They did. And even if they hadn't, they don't write shorter shows and put in more commercials. (as the OP suggested) No show did that before or during the strike and won't afterwards.

As I understood it, it was Ben's "man on the boat" who revealed to him the identities and mission of the crew who had come for Ben.

So the "man on the boat" probably told Ben about the plan to go to the Tempest. But did that mean Ben must have learned that back when he was still at the Others camp (last season). But did he know that the freighter was there at that point? Well, I guess if he didn't know from the Losties, he could have had his own ways of knowing.

Last night I assumed that Harper was some smoke-monster-type thing controlled by Ben (previously arranged?) and not real.

But now I'm leaning towards nothing more than Ben learned about the plan to go to the Tempest back last season from his boat-mole, and instructed Harper (real-life, physical Harper... maybe or maybe not using some sort of mystical travel method to appear and disappear) to get Juliette to stop them.

But wait, why couldn't Ben just have Harper stop them instead?

I'm confusing myself ;)


The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.

The average viewer... who doesn't read the credits. (which, admittingly, is probably not the average viewer)

[gchance]

The average viewer... who doesn't read the credits. (which, admittingly, is probably not the average viewer)

The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.

When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?

OK, you were sitting there with me, but how many people did you see get up and leave as they started? :)

Greg

[MickeS]

Especially when Juliette walks to the "Tempest" (and why the hell would they name it that ?)

I'm guessing it's a reference to the Shakespeare play:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tempest#Synopsis

"The play opens as Prospero, having divined that his brother, Antonio, is on a ship passing close by the island (having returned from the nuptials of Alonso's daughter Claribel with the King of Tunis), has raised a storm (the tempest of the title) which causes the ship to run aground."

[Mike Farrington]

Can someone remind me what / when the Orchid video was?It was an extra on the Season 3 DVD. It has never aired. It is said to provide some insight into Season 4. It can be found on YouTube. Just search for "lost orchid".

[dslunceford]

With Ben's "you'll need to sit down" comment I said to my wife that Sayid may be his man on the boat. I just didn't see Michael as being a "sit down" revelation. Then I realized that the character of Locke doesn't read the credits and wouldn't know that Harold P. is coming back this season, so it may be a bigger shock for him :D:D

[3D]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.

Ah, but we know that the people on the boat are looking for Ben. I've heard of hiding in plain site, but that's a bit much. ;)

Back to Ben. The genius of this episode was in the beginning and in the reveal of Widmore, you start to feel like you can trust him again, and then at the end, when we discover Charlotte and Faraday's true end game and seeing how petty he was with Juliet, the rug was pulled out of us once again. Ben's like the boyfriend that promises us he'll change and we keep going back to him for whatever reason and he keeps betraying us time and time again and yet, we keep going back to him!

My guess is that Charlotte and Faraday actually believe that they were supposed to deactivate the station for the exact reason that they gave (so that Ben could not use the gas to kill everyone). However, they only believe that because they are being lied to by whomever is running the Freighter operation. I think that Ben wants them stopped because he might have the need to use the gas to defend the Island from Widmore. For now, a partiularly integral weapon in his arsenal has been dismantled.

The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.

When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?

OK, you were sitting there with me, but how many people did you see get up and leave as they started? :)

Greg

The credits are at the begining of Lost. Plus, I don't think the average Lost viewer is the same thing as the average television viewer. Those folks gave up on Lost about the time that it started getting interesting (or to them, weird and meandering).

[TAsunder]

It's entirely possible for two pieces of an aircraft to go in quite different trajectories/vectors. Both pieces were of differing masses with differing airfoils attached. In a real life incident, I would have been surprised if they had landed in the same place. We don't know the altitude of the incident, or what external forces were acting on the fuselage (i.e., what exactly ripped the aircraft apart).

Since it's a fictional incident for dramatic effect, it makes no difference. It did what it did.

There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.

[pmyers]

I don't think I've ever looked or paid attention to anybody's name during the credits of any show.

[pmyers]

Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.

[jkeegan]

Preview:
It says we'll see a face we never thought we'd see again. Are most people guessing that's Michael? I wondered if maybe it's Naomi, since people have speculated that the voice on the other end of the sat phone sounded just like her, and because of the way they focused on her face several times after she was dead.Yup, I thought that too..
Seriously, who else would justify that preview line? Libby? Anna Lucia? The swimming girl that drowned in the ocean? Nikki? Nope, it's Naomi or Michael.. (or Walt).. and I think Michael or Walt are too predictable.

(Plus, the ship's been out at sea for two months just before finding the wreckage, so it wouldn't make sense that the captain would be either Michael or Walt.. they could be on board, but not captain.. (but again, the preview didn't say the "man on the boat"/friend was necessarily the captain)).

[jkeegan]

c'mon people....do we really need to spoilerize who we think Ben is talking about on the boat? That's just silly. It's all speculation.....Some of the spoilered comments were because of data from next week's preview, which should be spoilered.

[MickeS]

Where did the assumption that "the man on the boat" = "captain" come from? :confused:

[jeff125va]

Yup, I thought that too..
Seriously, who else would justify that preview line? Libby? Anna Lucia? The swimming girl that drowned in the ocean? Nikki? Nope, it's Naomi or Michael.. (or Walt).. and I think Michael or Walt are too predictable.

(Plus, the ship's been out at sea for two months just before finding the wreckage, so it wouldn't make sense that the captain would be either Michael or Walt.. they could be on board, but not captain.. (but again, the preview didn't say the "man on the boat"/friend was necessarily the captain)).
Her death notwithstanding, I don't think Naomi would as much make sense in that context. I mean, yes, technically, we'd expect to see her even less than Michael because she's dead, but if you just interpret it as "you'll be soooooo surprised" then I think Michael makes more sense because our surprise would be greater because we knew him much better, it's been longer since we've seen him, and because of the circumstances under which he left.

[stiffi]

There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.

I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?

They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.

[jeff125va]

Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.

Good point. Maybe the stakes are attached directly to a big magnet, resulting in outrageously inflated scores. :p

[Tsiehta]

Why, oh why, are the people from 815 the dumbest people on the planet??!! Why do they always turn their backs on the bad guys?!!! Why do they just take whatever his handed to them?

Stupid, just stupid people!!!

[cwoody222]

The average viewer HATES credits and avoids them. Not only that, but the average viewer doesn't care who the people are other than one or two who he really likes.

When was the last time you stayed for all the credits at a movie?

OK, you were sitting there with me, but how many people did you see get up and leave as they started? :)

Greg

I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.

Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.

Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up ;) - don't pay attention to actors names.

[jeff125va]

I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?

They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.
Well, maybe he had a way, but we know what led to the magnetic force bringing the plane down.

Yes, but they showed it after the plane had come down. There's no indication that Ben knew anything about Jack before the plane came down.

I think he just took advantage of the opportunity that came along.

[SoBelle0]

I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.

Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.

Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up ;) - don't pay attention to actors names.
I'm one of those - I call folks by the names they had on other shows, or the tall balding guy, or whatever comes to mind. Were it not for y'all, I'm sure I would need to sit down if Michael showed back up on the show... I've thought about it, and perhaps even anticipated it, but not expected it. Know what I mean?

[verdugan]

An example of weaker writing and character development is Jack blithely switching from Kate to Juliette in picoseconds. On second thought, cancel that...it's a target rich environment and Jack is a male.
Me, I'd take that murderess Kate if forced to choose.

In his defense, Kate is with Sawyer, so why not move on to Juliette? Not too many single women out there in the Island, and I bet his match.com membership expired already.

[Shakhari]

Well, Juliette certainly has moved on quickly. It's only been a couple of months in story time between sobbing over dead Goodwin to kissing Jack because of the way she feels about him.

Who is Juliette supposed to remind Ben of? His childhood friend?

[Cindy1230]

Well, Juliette certainly has moved on quickly. It's only been a couple of months in story time between sobbing over dead Goodwin to kissing Jack because of the way she feels about him.

Who is Juliette supposed to remind Ben of? His childhood friend?

I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.


And just to clarify -
We have one more new episode March 13th.
6 weeks off.
April 24th - the remaining 5 episodes.

Right?

[bruinfan]

So my question is if Ben was so revenge thinking to send Goodwin, what particular ill did Ethan do to deserve death as well?

Well, if you follow the logic that because he sent Goodwin out on the mission with the intent of getting him killed, he also intended for Ethan to be killed eventually, it could be because Ethan's death makes Juliet that much more invaluable to the Others, giving her more of a reason to stay.
I thought the revenge part was when ben left goodwin undercover after ethan had been killed. juliet wanted to bring goodwin back, but ben made it a point to keep him in, knowing that it was likely he was going to be killed.

I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?

They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.

Well, maybe he had a way, but we know what led to the magnetic force bringing the plane down.

Yes, but they showed it after the plane had come down. There's no indication that Ben knew anything about Jack before the plane came down.
I thought the jack scene was after the plane came down, as well.


on a side note:
this episode of the backstory of the others made me hope for a reveal of what ben was doing in the parachute in the first place. did we get that story? and who the dude who's license he had was and that whole thing from when we first met ben.

[3D]

I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.


And just to clarify -
We have one more new episode March 13th.
6 weeks off.
April 24th - the remaining 5 episodes.

Right?

I think I read on ew.com that they were actually going to show episode 8 before the hiatus, although I could be misremembering.

[gchance]

I'm talking about the credits in the beginning... where "Harold Perrineau" appears every week over the actual show.

Some people - not a ton of casual viewers, I'll admit - will know who that is.

Most viewers - like my one friend who just told me that he just got to the part in season 2 when Adebisi from Oz showed up ;) - don't pay attention to actors names.

Right. I can give a perfect example, though, of people not paying attention to credits. Zoe Bell is in the opening credits of every episode this season, but have we seen her?

She's Regina. So that whole argument about Naomi somehow being on the boat, on the other end of the radio, is silly.

Greg

[DreadPirateRob]

I'm fairly certain that Ben's inside man is Michael - remember, the "you might want to sit down" comment was directed toward Locke, not us. For Locke, that would be probably be quite the shocker.

Also, did anyone notice the rather quick reaction time that Charlotte showed when Kate came into frame? She noticed her out of the corner of her eye, and then drew her gun, pivoted, and aimed in a nano-second. Doesn't that kind of call into question Naomi's statement that none of the other 4 (Faraday, Charlotte, Miles, and the pilot) were field-trained? She certainly looked field-trained to me.

[Turtleboy]

So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?

[tewcewl]

Well it's never safe to assume anything, but it does kind of confirm that Annie is long gone. Not that I was biting my nails to get an answer to this one.
She could have either died in the purge or maybe Ben got her pregnant and she died then.

I thought that too, that Juliette moved on quickly. I answered your question on post #105.


And just to clarify -
We have one more new episode March 13th.
6 weeks off.
April 24th - the remaining 5 episodes.

Right?

Do I get an assist with that answer? :D

And I believe we have two more episodes. We were supposed to get only the first seven, but I think that's changed and now we're getting the full 8 before going on break (last episode to air will be on March 20). Then a break and then 5 more episodes.

[jeff125va]

I thought the revenge part was when ben left goodwin undercover after ethan had been killed. juliet wanted to bring goodwin back, but ben made it a point to keep him in, knowing that it was likely he was going to be killed.




I thought the jack scene was after the plane came down, as well.


on a side note:
this episode of the backstory of the others made me hope for a reveal of what ben was doing in the parachute in the first place. did we get that story? and who the dude who's license he had was and that whole thing from when we first met ben.

You mean the hot air balloon? He was never on that. He was lying the whole time. He'd been on the island since he was about 12. I'm not sure that we ever found out much about Henry Gale (the guy who had really been in the balloon).

[bruinfan]

You mean the hot air balloon? He was never on that. He was lying the whole time. He'd been on the island since he was about 12. I'm not sure that we ever found out much about Henry Gale (the guy who had really been in the balloon).

hot air balloon, yes...

i just read the episode recap... i thought he was in the balloon that they happened upon, but he was caught in one of rousseau's net traps...

how quickly we forget.. carry on...

[stellie93]

They sure do seem to be telegraphing things to make it look like Michael is the man on the boat, so I'm gonna throw out another possibility: Walt.

I don't really get how you could send a child on a freighter under cover alone. Even taller Walt is underage--unless he's even taller now. Or maybe Michael is working there and Walt is with him doing the communications with Ben.

As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.



Of course, since they had revealed that Aaron is, in fact, with Kate when they get off the island, I might be wrong.

But I don't think I am.

And Locke and Ben ... if Locke just kept Ben gagged, and brought him food which had been run through a blender, then Ben could just drink his food through a straw and Locke wouldn't be susceptible to Ben's mind games.


LOL Duct tape over the mouth is the only way to be safe with Ben. If his lips are moving, you're being manipulated.

I seems like they must have said that Kate adopted Aaron after his mother died--how else could they explain him? So I can see counting him as a whole person in place of his mother. No way Kate could have been pregnant enough to have Aaron on the island and no one knew it when she left Austrailia. She must've been held somewhere while the Marshall arranged transportation for them, and they would know she wasn't showing. Unless the timeline is screwed up? Always a possibility... ;)


Btw......I had this feeling that the island's magnetic field was involved with Sawyer and Hurley playing horseshoes.

I thought this was back to Hurley's luck. Remember when he beat Jack at horse? (ok, that hasn't happened yet). Also remember how Walt always won at backgammon? And they're both acquainted with Jacob.

[latrobe7]

He'd been on the island since he was about 12. Well, minus vacation time to who-knows-where (various locations in Europe and Asia from the looks of his passport and currency stash), for who knows how long...

[ethos42]

Just a prediction:

Jacob = Smoke Monster

[wprager]

My wife thinks Ben's man on the boat is Sayid. That would be worthy of a "sit down before I tell you", and we also saw them working together in the future. Technically Sayid wasn't on the boat quite yet when Ben said he had a man on it, but the way he plans everything out he probably knew it would happen.

Tell your wife I had the same idea. Although if that was the case, he would have to be on the boat in hiding (others on the boar would know him). If he's hiding out, it's less likely that he would have as much inside knowledge.

[JYoung]

As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.



It's not so much the writers as it is the ABC promo department.
The writers have nothing to do with the promos.
Even the producers have very little say about them.

[balboa dave]

I think that Ben's "man" on the boat is Regina, the woman who has been "manning" the radio since Minkowski became unstuck.

[TheGreyOwl]

It's impossible for it to be Sayid, unless there is some stupid time travel plot that will make me stop watching the show.

Well, I don't think it's impossible, even without time travel. Her whole point was that Sayid wasn't on the boat yet when Ben said that, but it was all part of Ben's plan that he wouldn end up there soon. But that being said, I don't really think it's Sayid. Michael seems the most logical choice, but it's also for that very reason that it might not be him.:rolleyes:

[zordude]

So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?

Isn't that the little man IN the boat?

Either way, if they show it, they can call it whatever they want :D

Z

[jkeegan]

Is this the first time that multiple people have been able to see an "apparition" at once? Before, these chance encounters of people (or horses) oddly appearing in the jungle have always been witnessed by a single person...no?Probably a smeek, behind this week, but the horse is the example that comes to mind of when there were definitely two people that saw it!

[latrobe7]

I answered your question on post #105.I don't know that that is definitive - I think Juliet looks more like Ben's mom - whose portrait has been hanging in his house all his life on the island, if you're wondering how anyone else would know what she looks like - than Annie, who was more brunette than blonde when we last saw her.

Of course, Annie's hair could've turned more blonde later, and that painting might not be of Ben's mom; just saying that, as usual, nothing is a forgone conclusion...

[Roadblock]

"Why? You're asking me why? After everything I did to get you here. After everything I've done to keep you here. How can you possibly not understand? That you're mine!.... Take as much time as you need."

Creepy.

Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.

Nice.

My guess is that Charlotte and Faraday actually believe that they were supposed to deactivate the station for the exact reason that they gave (so that Ben could not use the gas to kill everyone). However, they only believe that because they are being lied to by whomever is running the Freighter operation. I think that Ben wants them stopped because he might have the need to use the gas to defend the Island from Widmore. For now, a partiularly integral weapon in his arsenal has been dismantled.

I like it.

[stellie93]

It's not so much the writers as it is the ABC promo department.
The writers have nothing to do with the promos.
Even the producers have very little say about them.

I was referring to Ben's claim that Locke would be amazed.

[getreal]

So when are they going to show Kate's little man on the boat?

http://www.cartoonistsonline.com/images/jpgs/tydbol_man.jpg

;)

[jeff125va]

....
I seems like they must have said that Kate adopted Aaron after his mother died--how else could they explain him? So I can see counting him as a whole person in place of his mother. No way Kate could have been pregnant enough to have Aaron on the island and no one knew it when she left Austrailia. She must've been held somewhere while the Marshall arranged transportation for them, and they would know she wasn't showing. Unless the timeline is screwed up? Always a possibility... ;)
No, you're correct. Well, maybe not in all the conclusions you draw, but in theory she should have been exactly as pregnant as Claire was when they left Australia, if she's claiming to be his natural mother, and that someone would have to have noticed. But, they could possibly be lying about his age or some other explanation we haven't thought of.

[JYoung]

I was referring to Ben's claim that Locke would be amazed.

Well, Locke hasn't seen Harold in the opening credits like we have. :)

[philw1776]

In his defense, Kate is with Sawyer, so why not move on to Juliette? Not too many single women out there in the Island, and I bet his match.com membership expired already.

Uh, Kate DID tell him that ther reason she went with Locke was to find out if the boat people knew about her felonies. She did NOT say she went to be with Sawyer. Jack is SUCH a woosie.

[JMikeD]

There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.

I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field. Airliners are mostly aluminum and maybe some titanium (and lately, non-metallic composites). Aluminum and titanium are paramagnetic, which means that they are so weakly attracted to magnets that they're considered to be non-magnetic. There's just little in a plane for a magnetic field to operate on.

Now if the show's creators want to say that in their fictional universe, a magnetic field can have that effect, then that's a different matter. :D

I have no doubt that a creative writer could come up with a far-fetched explanation, though (a cargo hold full of ball bearings?).

[Cindy1230]

Do I get an assist with that answer? :D

I quoted you in my post, wasn't that an assist in it's self?
Sorry, next time i'll say... We answered your question. ;)

-I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i try to read everything ;)...ok... end vent - I feel better. :)

[latrobe7]

I just don't find it credible...

That phrase could precede 98% of what's happened on the show. It's always interesting to see what detail bugs each individual.:)

[Cindy1230]

I don't know that that is definitive - I think Juliet looks more like Ben's mom - whose portrait has been hanging in his house all his life on the island, if you're wondering how anyone else would know what she looks like - than Annie, who was more brunette than blonde when we last saw her.

Of course, Annie's hair could've turned more blonde later, and that painting might not be of Ben's mom; just saying that, as usual, nothing is a forgone conclusion...

Thats a good point. I didn't even think about his mom.

[3D]

I hope this isn't smeeking, but I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i'm try to read everything ;)...ok... end vent - I feel better.:p

[RAKEN]

The man on the boat is Michael. Lock will be shocked because he views Walt as an ally and having Michael as a conspirator of Ben would just blow his mind, and have him thinking possibly Walt is also in league with Ben.

In the end this show is about Aaron. Ben is trying to get control of him. Either because they are related, or because he was born on the island he is special. Remember the psychic talking to Clair about not giving him up and he must be raised with her and only her. Ben brought down the plane to get Aaron everyone else is just there to play to that end game.

[Cindy1230]

I hope this isn't smeeking, but I have to vent for a moment. So ignore the rest if you don't care....I have to say that I've been reading the tivo lost thread for years, but as you can see, I haven't started posting until this season of Lost. And i'm sure everyone experiences this, but i'm sooo annoyed about the smeeking. I think i've been smeeked twice already this thread. I read EVERYTHING before I post or at least try to remember what i read before I post. I miss deadlines at work because i try to read everything ;)...ok... end vent - I feel better.:p

Hardy har har... should have seen that one coming. :)

[JMikeD]

That phrase could precede 98% of what's happened on the show. It's always interesting to see what detail bugs each individual.:)


In fact, it doesn't particularly bug me. I cut writers a lot of slack on things such as this. It's like the guns that never run out of ammo or the cars that lose 5 or 6 hubcaps during the car chase.

Is an aluminum plane being ripped apart by magnetism any more unlikely than all those people surviving a crash with essentially no injuries? Maybe it was a localized gravity field. Writers can explain away just about anything. It's a framework to tell the story.

The intent of my original post was to point out that magnetic field theory doesn't work in real life.

And I don't believe it's been established that Walt has any magical powers, either. :p

[Charon2]

Perhaps I am just too tired, but how is it that Charlotte and Daniel seemed to know Juliet? It didn't strike me as they knew her from a file they may have, but like they actually knew and talked to her before.

[balboa dave]

I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field. Airliners are mostly aluminum and maybe some titanium (and lately, non-metallic composites). Aluminum and titanium are paramagnetic, which means that they are so weakly attracted to magnets that they're considered to be non-magnetic. There's just little in a plane for a magnetic field to operate on.

Now if the show's creators want to say that in their fictional universe, a magnetic field can have that effect, then that's a different matter. :D

I have no doubt that a creative writer could come up with a far-fetched explanation, though (a cargo hold full of ball bearings?).That argument is so first season. Can't we just move on? :p

[Turtleboy]

Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?

[drumorgan]

Can you give me some help?
1. Tivo got Celebrity Apprentice for 6 minutes before I caught it and switched. I missed the opening. Can someone briefly recap it for me?
2. I watched the ending, and I don't get it. "Best ending evar"??? Can someone clue me in on why this is so good/interesting/funny/something?

Thanks.

[Alpinemaps]

Perhaps I am just too tired, but how is it that Charlotte and Daniel seemed to know Juliet? It didn't strike me as they knew her from a file they may have, but like they actually knew and talked to her before.

They were on the beach with Juliette and Jack just last week. And the pilot identified her as someone that wasn't on the 815 manifest.

Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?

Ooh! Hmmm...I like that.

[CarynFromHermosa]

If the writers really want a shocking moment when revealing Ben's 'man on the boat', instead of him being Michael (who we'd all expect), make it Eko, Boone, Ana-Lucia or Libby (who I always thought was an Other).

This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia. No reason other than Ben made a big deal out of her "not being their kind of person".

Yes....I know you'll all attack now ;-)

[JMikeD]

That argument is so first season. Can't we just move on? :p

So people can say it was a magnetic field that caused the crash, but I can't refute it?

Silly me. I guess I'll stop posting.

[Fool Me Twice]

I don't think we got "Paulo and Nikki'd" at all. Are you trying to say that Juliet wasn't present the first time they showed us the barracks scene? Of course she was, because they had all just been at book club in her house. The fact that they showed us one scene with her looking at Goodwin doesn't mean they revised history.What? No, Harper (the new character) was put into that scene.

[TriBruin]

Can you give me some help?
1. Tivo got Celebrity Apprentice for 6 minutes before I caught it and switched. I missed the opening. Can someone briefly recap it for me?

Juliette was talking with a therapist. She was complaining that she did not want to be the center of attention or a celebrity. They way she was talking was to make the audience think that we were seeing a "flash forward" and that the scene was taking place off the island. However after a couple of minutes, Tom (Mr. Friendly) opened the door and said that Ben wanted to see Juliette.
2. I watched the ending, and I don't get it. "Best ending evar"??? Can someone clue me in on why this is so good/interesting/funny/something?

Thanks.
I wouldn't call it "the best ending evar", but the looks on Hurley and Sawyer's faces was hilarious. Plus Ben's whole nonchalant attitude made it just fun to watch.

[jwehman]

So - I'm sorry if this is obvious, but it just dawned on me that it's quite possible that Ben sent Michael and Walt off in the boat in some exact heading because he *knew* that Widmore's boat was off in that direction too? Wasn't the Widmore boat looking for the island for two months or so? So, given when Michael and Walt left (day 67), that might account for them following heading 325 in order to intercept the boat. That would lead to them being on the boat now, with either one of them being Ben's "inside" man (though Walt wouldn't really be a "man").

[vertigo235]

I thought the ending was funny too, but I don't know about best ending ever.

Then again, someone allways posts that in the lost thread.

[gchance]

Juliette was talking with a therapist. She was complaining that she did not want to be the center of attention or a celebrity. They way she was talking was to make the audience think that we were seeing a "flash forward" and that the scene was taking place off the island. However after a couple of minutes, Tom (Mr. Friendly) opened the door and said that Ben wanted to see Juliette.

Geez, guys. Maybe it's because I knew about it ahead of time, but it wouldn't have tricked me in the least bit.

Juliet wasn't saying that she WAS a celebrity, she was saying she was being TREATED LIKE a celebrity. Ben and Richard made it very clear to her when she was brought to the island that she was "something special" and everyone was excited. I didn't think for a minute she was off the island.

Not to mention, the surroundings they were in looked an awful lot like Others Quarters. :)

Ben at the end of the episode was hilarious, he was like a little kid pretending to be someone else. Walking along, "la la la", he was almost SKIPPING.

Greg

[wprager]

To those who waste too much time hanging around these forums, he is a bit obvious. But not only do we do frame-by-frame analysis, we read the credits looking for clues, listen to Podcasts, etc.

The average viewer would be floored. Michael left a couple seasons ago. He & Walt are history. If either are on the freighter, it will be a jaw-droppin' moment for 80% of the viewers.

Well, "Tall Walt" was there just days ago. :D

[wprager]

One thing that has always disturbed me about the scene of the plane in the air and breaking up is that the sections take a "Y" trajectory, where the tail goes to the right and the fuselage goes to the left of the original path.

It just seems logical to me that they should have continued along a straight-ahead path, with the tail section hitting land sooner due to wind resistance and no engines, while the fuselage would drop further along the same straight-ahead path.

:confused:

Almost like there was an explosion.

[Turtleboy]

Remember, Michael left 30 days ago, not 3 years ago, like it seems. :)

[drumorgan]

Rblount. Thanks for the answers. That helped. Yes, is was funny, but not one warranting the modified "evar", at least for me. ;)

[tewcewl]

Thats a good point. I didn't even think about his mom.

Then that would put an Oedipal twist on Ben...

[Rob Helmerichs]

Geez, guys. Maybe it's because I knew about it ahead of time, but it wouldn't have tricked me in the least bit.
It didn't exactly fool me, but it certainly puzzled me...I couldn't figure out where/when it was supposed to be. It didn't make a ton of sense for it to be later, but the surrounding seemed more modern than the Village and her make-up seemed stronger than in her previous flashbacks. So I just figured I'd wait for more clues, and the "mystery" didn't go on long enough for it to start really bothering me.

[stellie93]

The man on the boat is Michael. Lock will be shocked because he views Walt as an ally and having Michael as a conspirator of Ben would just blow his mind, and have him thinking possibly Walt is also in league with Ben.

In the end this show is about Aaron. Ben is trying to get control of him. Either because they are related,

Ben is possibly related to Aaron?

Maybe Ben sent Michael and Walt on a heading to the ship knowing that Widmore wouldn't let them go, and his man on the ship could keep track of them. Walt could be used as a communication link, and possibly they would realize that Ben is telling the truth when he says he's the good guy. A stretch, I know, especially the Ben telling the truth part. ;)

[wprager]

There's also the fact that the plane was likely ripped apart due to the giant magnetic force that desmond failed to prevent when he stopped typing in the numbers.

The plane's momentum was pulling it forward; the Island's magnetic force was pulling it backwards, causing the plane to break in two. I'm not a physics major, so this is not a rhetorical question but, wouldn't both halves of the plane still have forward momentum? Sure, the back section would not have the thrust of the engines, so I could see it having a much different trajectory than the fuselage. But I think the OP was talking about how the tail section seemingly flew in the direction opposite to the original flight path (of course I am probably mis-remembering).

[wprager]

Yup, I thought that too..
Seriously, who else would justify that preview line? Libby? Anna Lucia? The swimming girl that drowned in the ocean? Nikki? Nope, it's Naomi or Michael.. (or Walt).. and I think Michael or Walt are too predictable.

(Plus, the ship's been out at sea for two months just before finding the wreckage, so it wouldn't make sense that the captain would be either Michael or Walt.. they could be on board, but not captain.. (but again, the preview didn't say the "man on the boat"/friend was necessarily the captain)).

Not sure why speculation is being spoiler-tagged, but I agree with you about the possibility.

What happened to Desmond when he "tripped"? He was out. Pretty much could have been like that person you mentioned in the spoiler. It could be him/her, but I don't think so. At least with Sayid, we've seen flash-forwards of him working for/with Ben. Nothing like that has been shown. hinted at or suggested with regard to this other person.

Then, again, this is Lost, and we should all expect the unexpected, and this would be unexpected.

The more I ruminate on it, the more I am beginning to think that, in the end, Ben's "mole" will end up being someone who is either teleporting/time tripping, or using distance-viewing.

Then I refer back to the previous paragraph, and this is exactly what the writers would expect us to expect, so ...

[wprager]

I was thinking that too. Has anybody mentioned, by the way, that maybe Ben had a way to control the magnetic force, and actually brought down the plane on purpose?

They made it a point to show the scene where Juliet tells Ben that Jack is a surgeon. She says "He can help you Ben" to which he replies "You don't say?" Clearly, he knew about Jack before the plane came down. Also, the whole incident gave him a way to take out Goodwin.

Everything we've been shown so far suggests that he knew nothing about Jack before the plane crash. As soon as the see the plane he starts the ball rolling about getting information about everyone on the plane, and sends Goodwin/Ethan out to infiltrate and make lists. I think the "You don't say" meant "Duh! I know my condition; I know the guy's a spinal surgeon; and I'm smarter than you are, so if you figured it out don't you think I would have figured it out better and faster?"

OK, maybe I'm reading a little too much into those three words:)

By the way, speaking of lists, the last reference (Ben saying something like "After all, they were on the list") made me think that someone higher up than Ben was passing him the list -- Jacob. Now, thinking back to his instructions to Goodman/Ethan, he said something like "I want lists in <some time span reference>". That would seem to imply that Goodwin and Ethan were making the lists?

[Charon2]

Perhaps my navigation skills are out of whack, but just because two things leave on the same heading, doesn't mean they will end up at the same point, unless the point of departure is the same. That is, unless the helicopter crossed the boat dock on its way out, they ran parallel. An example. A boat leave LA on a heading of 305, and a plane leaves Seatle on a heading of 305, are their paths not parallel to one another and their paths never cross?
That isn't to say that Michael isn't on the boat, I figure he and Walt likely are, and Michael may well be Ben's man on the boat, and they may have came close enough to the freighter that it doesn't matter, but just because they left along the same heading isn't reason enough to make that assumption.
Then again, the map shows that they had to go 40 miles N @ 305 degrees, before making a turn East for 7k, which may put the boat more directly in line with the way Michael went. Why we change from miles to metric units in one map is beyond me.

Okay, wait, Michael was going at 325. It would take too much time to work out a map...

[MickeS]

I thought the ending was funny too, but I don't know about best ending ever.

Then again, someone allways posts that in the lost thread.

Best.Ending.EVAR doesn't mean the same as "best ending ever". ;)

[stellie93]

I don't understand the significance of the Red Sox tape. The world series in 2004 was sometime after the plane crashed, right? So did Ben tape it because he knew Jack was a fan? He had the tape when he was holding Jack like a few weeks ago? So between then and now he or someone else taped Widmore presumably on the mainland--maybe his man on the ship or someone else undercover, or maybe Ben himself--on the same tape? Why? Video tapes are cheap and plentiful, and how did the tape even get there unless Ben took it. Is that the point? What am I missing here? :confused:

[jeff125va]

I don't understand the significance of the Red Sox tape. The world series in 2004 was sometime after the plane crashed, right? So did Ben tape it because he knew Jack was a fan? He had the tape when he was holding Jack like a few weeks ago? So between then and now he or someone else taped Widmore presumably on the mainland--maybe his man on the ship or someone else undercover, or maybe Ben himself--on the same tape? Why? Video tapes are cheap and plentiful, and how did the tape even get there unless Ben took it. Is that the point? What am I missing here? :confused:
I don't think you're missing anything, just making too much of it. I guess he just figured he didn't need the Red Sox game any more (based on his dismissive "I taped over it" remark. They might not be plentiful on the island, or he just grabbed the closest one.

[jeff125va]

This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia. No reason other than Ben made a big deal out of her "not being their kind of person".

Yes....I know you'll all attack now ;-)
Attack you, why? Just because she's dead?

[Hunter Green]

As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.
We here might be, but the average viewer probably hasn't even considered that idea. The show creators keep pointing out how for every one of us here who obsesses about the precise count of days, there's a dozen who are more interested in who Kate ends up with.

I just don't find it credible that a real-world airliner would be ripped apart by a giant magnetic field.
Is it okay that that magnetic field unsticks a consciousness in time, and may be implicated in causing spontaneous remission of lower-body paralysis, though?

Is Charles Whidmore the Economist that Sayid was going to kill?
I think so. (Though I can't quite recall: did we once get a tip that Widmore doesn't like current technology, just like the economist doesn't?)

[Turtleboy]

Yeah, it's Michael. It has to be.

The fact that people are suggesting dead and buried characters, or characters that weren't on the boat is just silly.

How could it possibly be Sayid? How could Sayid contact Ben with all the information about the four people who came to the Island? How could he get the information?

Naomi is a possibility, but why would Ben tell Locke to sit down? And why would we, the viewers care?

Anna Lucia? Dead and off the show. Libby? Dead.

Harold Perrenau is in the credits and has been since the beginning of the season. It's Michael.

(And Michael isn't the captain, he's just Michael).

Now the question is, did the freighter pick him up, or did he make it back to land and join them later.

That is yet to be revealed.

[SoBelle0]

We here might be, but the average viewer probably hasn't even considered that idea. The show creators keep pointing out how for every one of us here who obsesses about the precise count of days, there's a dozen who are more interested in who Kate ends up with.

I've talked to a number of 'average viewers' - those who chatter around the water cooler and then forget the show until the following ep - and they are all certain that it's Michael. Just sayin'.

It would be truly jaw-dropping to sooo many if it is someone else. If it's Michael, everyone gets to say - see, I knew it! Win-win for the writers, in my mind. And, since it's all pre-planned, there will be much more to come from it, whoever it is.

I think it's Michael.

[getreal]

Ben at the end of the episode was hilarious, he was like a little kid pretending to be someone else. Walking along, "la la la", he was almost SKIPPING.

Very reminiscent of Pee Wee Herman.
La-la-lah! Hu-hah! :D

[aindik]

Naomi is a possibility, but why would Ben tell Locke to sit down?

Because Locke put a knife in her back.

And why would we, the viewers care?

Because she was supposed to be dead.

On another note, I think Charles Widmore created the "solo race around the world" and tricked Desmond into entering it because he knew Desmond would end up on the island, which would help Charles find it.

Speaking of Charles, why would the writers create a character named "Charles" when there was already a character named "Charlie." The show isn't confusing enough?

[cheesesteak]

Yes we did. So very annoying. This whole episode was a collection of things I hate about Lost (my favorite show)--primarily having the main tension rest on the refusal of characters to communicate with each other


So unlike the wily Kate. But, a mediocre writer should never let character stand in the way of cliché.

I really can't stand the Charlotte character. Or maybe the actress. Probably both. Honestly, either Kate or Juliette should have put a bullet in her head.

Get out of my brain!

[jeff125va]

Yeah, it's Michael. It has to be.

The fact that people are suggesting dead and buried characters, or characters that weren't on the boat is just silly.

How could it possibly be Sayid? How could Sayid contact Ben with all the information about the four people who came to the Island? How could he get the information?

Naomi is a possibility, but why would Ben tell Locke to sit down? And why would we, the viewers care?

Anna Lucia? Dead and off the show. Libby? Dead.

Harold Perrenau is in the credits and has been since the beginning of the season. It's Michael.

(And Michael isn't the captain, he's just Michael).

Now the question is, did the freighter pick him up, or did he make it back to land and join them later.

That is yet to be revealed.
Even though Ben didn't know that Naomi is dead, he at least knew that she had a knife in her back. If she were "his man", I don't think he would have used quite the same words talking about her. And especially not with Locke (for different reasons, i.e. it wouldn't be shocking to him).

I'm guessing Ben must have had someone meet Michael on the way to the boat - perhaps that's the reason for the different bearing? I can't imagine when Ben would have been able to discuss any sort of plan with Michael, and they certainly put on an act at the ferry dock if they had. We saw Mrs. Klugh talk to Michael about bringing the four people back in exchange for being let go, and nothing was mentioned about it then.

[balboa dave]

So people can say it was a magnetic field that caused the crash, but I can't refute it?

Silly me. I guess I'll stop posting.I'm sorry you lost your sense of humor. My condolences. :D

[jeff125va]

Because Locke put a knife in her back.



Because she was supposed to be dead.

On another note, I think Charles Widmore created the "solo race around the world" and tricked Desmond into entering it because he knew Desmond would end up on the island, which would help Charles find it.

Speaking of Charles, why would the writers create a character named "Charles" when there was already a character named "Charlie." The show isn't confusing enough?
What about that would make it "sit down" shocking to Locke? It's not like he knew anything about her previously.

She IS dead. It's not like they'd be telling us that she came back to life. If it were Naomi, they'd obviously be telling us that she WAS his man.

It was a SOLAR race. ;)

Yeah, I'm always getting those two characters mixed up. The strung out rock star in a hoodie and jeans? No wait, the billionaire industrialist in the expensive suits.

[RLeeA3]

Locke is the man on the boat............

[Shaunnick]

Ehh-hmm. Evar! :D

[Delta13]

I think we're being set up for another surprise next week. I think we see both Naomi AND Michael, but neither one may necessarily be the Man on the Boat. The Michael thing is almost too obvious, as many others have said.

It would seem odd that the Freighties would trust anyone who came from the island, particularly anyone who dealt with Ben. And Michael ain't smart enough to conceal that part, or the part about 815. Plus, they have a manifest list better than the airline did. Of course, it's possible that the people on the freighter are just as bad about sharing information as the Losties on the island are. :p

I don't see Naomi as the MOB or the surprise Ben told Locke, because it would be past tense and relatively pointless, if she's dead. There's no tension in it. Only if Ben knows that she is still alive and back on the freighter - then the "sit down" comment would make sense for her.

But maybe the writers will find a way around all of the above. But aside from who the final O6 person(s) is(are), I think seeing Naomi would be another surprise for us.

Well, some of us. :)

[MickeS]

I think we're being set up for another surprise next week. I think we see both Naomi AND Michael, but neither one may necessarily be the Man on the Boat. The Michael thing is almost too obvious, as many others have said.

It's only obvious because of meta knowledge. It's not obvious from a pure storytelling standpoint, but it IS logical, from what Ben said.

Anyone care to make a bet about it? :)

[teknikel]

what would shock Locke (hehe) the most is if the mole was Helen.:eek: Just going out there like a lot of others. She's not dead, is she?

But really it probably isn't her or Naomi because I believe Ben said, "I have a man on that boat."

(blood in the water...)

[LlamaLarry]

Wouldn't Miles have known if Naomi wasn't dead, or does he have the ability to hear dead people and "mostly dead" people and he cannot tell the difference?

[wprager]

Locke is the man on the boat............

Finally! Someone says the one name that would floor Locke so entirely as to un-heal his paralysis and force him to "sit down". Bravo!

(Not that I really think it is him but, wow, that really would be a kicker.)

[JMikeD]

I'm sorry you lost your sense of humor. My condolences. :D

None needed. My sense of humor is still present. It just seems to be on a slightly different wavelength than many.:D

[Rob Helmerichs]

None needed. My sense of humor is still present. It just seems to be on a slightly different wavelength than many.:D
Haven't you heard? In the new era we live in, if "your" sense of humor doesn't match "my" sense of humor, you don't have one.

It's us against them, baby. If you don't have a sense of humor you're with the terrorists.

[astrohip]

As far as the huge surprise, I think the writers would be disappointed if they promise us a surprise, and end up only surprising Locke. They know we're expecting Michael--I don't think they would play it up so much if we were right.

As others have pointed out, I believe the vast majority of LOST viewers have NO IDEA Michael (Harold P) is coming back. If he is the mole (and I have no idea if he is, nor do I care), it will be a shock. Just not to us. ;)

I've talked to a number of 'average viewers' - those who chatter around the water cooler and then forget the show until the following ep - and they are all certain that it's Michael. Just sayin'.
I have to disagree. I know several 'average viewers" also--my wife, my parents, my sister & BIL, several people at work--and NONE of them follow the details like this forum. Not a one of them has ever gone to a LOST site online, nor visited a forum. Yet they love it, and watch it religiously. And they know to talk to me about it, 'cause they all know I do those things, and I can share easter eggs and whatnot with them weekly. And not a one of them is expecting Michael. He left the show a couple years ago, remember?

This is really going out on a limb, but I think it is Ana Lucia.
She's DEAD. DEAD. As in BURIED dead.

This does raise an interesting question. Is there anyone that we know is dead (yes, I'm aware what we 'know' is a tenuous concept) that has come back to life? I don't count visions that no one else has seen (like Jack's dad).

[jeff125va]

As others have pointed out, I believe the vast majority of LOST viewers have NO IDEA Michael (Harold P) is coming back. If he is the mole (and I have no idea if he is, nor do I care), it will be a shock. Just not to us. ;)


I have to disagree. I know several 'average viewers" also--my wife, my parents, my sister & BIL, several people at work--and NONE of them follow the details like this forum. Not a one of them has ever gone to a LOST site online, nor visited a forum. Yet they love it, and watch it religiously. And they know to talk to me about it, 'cause they all know I do those things, and I can share easter eggs and whatnot with them weekly. And not a one of them is expecting Michael. He left the show a couple years ago, remember?


She's DEAD. DEAD. As in BURIED dead.

This does raise an interesting question. Is there anyone that we know is dead (yes, I'm aware what we 'know' is a tenuous concept) that has come back to life? I don't count visions that no one else has seen (like Jack's dad).
No.

I agree with the post about Helen. That would absolutely be the most "sit-down" shocking to Locke. It doesn't really fit otherwise, but still. Then again, after regaining use of his legs, his dad showing up on the island, etc., why would anything really surprise Locke any more?

[getreal]

She's DEAD. DEAD. As in BURIED dead.

Exactly. And, as anyone who has heard the official LOST podcasts knows, plans for the zombie season have been scrapped.

This does raise an interesting question. Is there anyone that we know is dead (yes, I'm aware what we 'know' is a tenuous concept) that has come back to life? I don't count visions that no one else has seen (like Jack's dad).

Jesus? :cool: Now THAT would floor Locke, the "man of faith". :D

[DUDE_NJX]

Anyone has links to whisper transcripts?

BTW, there are leaked screencaps from the upcoming episode confirming that Ben's man on the boat is Michael.

[Shaunnick]

Anyone has links to whisper transcripts?

BTW, there are leaked screencaps from the upcoming episode confirming that Ben's man on the boat is Michael.



Shocker of shocks! :eek: :D

[TiVotion]

If the captain turns out to be the Gorton's Fisherman, I'll worship the writers.

[MickeS]

If the captain turns out to be the Gorton's Fisherman, I'll worship the writers.

I think it'll be
http://www.xtreme-simpsons.de/pics/grabpics/big/captain01.gif

[mqpickles]

On another note, I think Charles Widmore created the "solo race around the world" and tricked Desmond into entering it because he knew Desmond would end up on the island, which would help Charles find it.So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?

Jesus? :cool: Now THAT would floor Locke, the "man of faith". :DIn a way, Jesus is on that freighter:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/

[Turtleboy]

So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?

In a way, Jesus is on that freighter:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/

So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.

[mqpickles]

So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.I think you mean the sidekick of the guy who gets tomorrow's paper today. ;)

[tem]

Do you mean the characters or the writers? If the writers, it's a Shakespearean reference. It's about a man (Prospero) and his daughter who have been stranded on an island with mystical powers for 12 years. Then his brother, who had basically exiled him to the island, passes by on a ship that Prospero causes to run aground by creating a storm.

the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line :rolleyes:

I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.

[Charon2]

My wife's favorite line:
"Because, YOU'RE MINE!"

[stevieleej]

One more thought regarding the 'man on the boat'. I mentioned to my wife the idea that someone we think is dead may be on the boat (Boone, Ana Lucia, etc.). She said an even bigger shocker would be if Ben told Locke, "My man on the boat is... you! I used this time travel stuff, and sent you back from the future...". That'd be a real twist. Not too sure I can go along with her on that idea.

I completely expect it to be Michael and I'll still feel a little let down if it is. Why all this build up for someone who we would expect to be there?


Edited:
Oops. I smeeked.

[latrobe7]

the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line :rolleyes:

I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.

Does that really matter? I mean why is the Swan the Swan, or the Pearl the Pearl, or the Arrow the Arrow? The names of the Staff and the Looking Glass seem to apply to their function, but the rest have names without obvious connections.

[chavez]

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.

[BALLS]

I'm 99% sure Jack's dad is Ben's spy on the ship.

[aindik]

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.

Considering the press attention we've seen devoted to Kate and the rest of the Oceanic Six, I don't think there's much of a chance Michael and Walt ever got home. Hey, maybe I just stumbled onto something. Could Michael and Walt be the last two of the Six?

I predict: Ben convinced Walt that the Island is special and worth protecting, and Michael believes Walt. Also, we've seen Michael is fairly easily blackmailed or convinced to do some pretty terrible things.

[unicorngoddess]

Well, I was just rewatching Season 2 with my cousin (she's watching for the first time) and something really caught my attention to convince me that it is, in fact, Michael who is, "the man on the boat."

When Ben gave Michael the barings, he said, follow those barings and you will find rescue. Ben must've known that freighter was out there. Ben told him exactly where to go to "find rescue" as opposed to going home. I'm thinking there were probably specific instructions for Michael waiting for him in the boat that included boarding the freighter and acting as a spy.

[jeff125va]

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.
Who said anything about Michael coming back to the island?

We saw Walt warn Locke about the people on the boat, so perhaps he convinced Michael to help Ben work against them. That doesn't convince me that the freighter people have ill intentions toward anyone other than Ben. After all, Walt warned Locke not to open the hatch, but did anything inherently bad really happen because of that? At least, because of simply opening it and going down there? There were some chains of events that might have had bad consequences but as far as just opening it, I think Walt's warning was not really all that prophetic. It would have been mostly beneficial if Locke hadn't stopped pushing the button.

[MickeS]

the characters, via the writers. It's just so unbelievable that people would come up with something like that for no particular reason. And even if it's a Shakespeare reference, what would a chemical plant have to do with Shakespeare ? Oh ... but wait ... I'm sure we'll learn why it's called the Tempest about 19 episodes down the line :rolleyes:

I still enjoy the show, but the writers are just so full of themselves it's sick.

Based on what the characters who built The Tempest seem to know about the island, why NOT name it The Tempest (depending on what it does) if they have to give it a name?

[MickeS]

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island?

You're assuming he got to some form of mainland. I assume he was picked up by this boat, if he is Ben's man there.

[MickeS]

Walt warned Locke not to open the hatch, but did anything inherently bad really happen because of that? At least, because of simply opening it and going down there? There were some chains of events that might have had bad consequences

Wow, that's an understatement. :) Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?

[getreal]

So, do you think Libby was working for Widmore?

In a way, Jesus is on that freighter:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377992/

Whoa! :eek:

So is the Indian Stereotype in Short Circuit.

And so is the dude from the Kama Sutra. (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116743/) :cool:

[getreal]

My wife's favorite line:
"Because, YOU'RE MINE!"

Followed up with "Happy Valentine!" ;)

[Cindy1230]

if the man on the boat is Michael, why is he there? the ONLY thing that has motivated him in previous episodes is getting off the island and keeping Walt safe. So we know he got off the island with Walt. Why would he be going back to the island? Maybe Walt was taken again. Ben said Whidmore wanted to exploit the island and asked Locke how many people would want to see him, being a healed paralytic. So maybe Whidmore took Walt because of his weird abilities and now Michael is forced to ally himself with Ben and be a mole in order to somehow get Walt back.

When Ben gave Michael the barings, he said, follow those barings and you will find rescue. Ben must've known that freighter was out there. Ben told him exactly where to go to "find rescue" as opposed to going home. I'm thinking there were probably specific instructions for Michael waiting for him in the boat that included boarding the freighter and acting as a spy.

You're assuming he got to some form of mainland. I assume he was picked up by this boat, if he is Ben's man there.

If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben. So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy. They can’t do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.

[getreal]

Wow, that's an understatement. :) Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?

Using another literary metaphor, the Hatch was a Pandora's Box.

[aindik]

If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben.

Why not? Didn't Michael have lots of alone time with Ben and his people before he went back to camp to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to Ben?

So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy.

Heh. Took me three reads to figure out what you are talking about. Not everyone pronounces "been" and "ben" the same. To me, "been" is pronounced the same as "bin," which is different from "ben." Not to hijack a 400 post thread. :)

They can’t do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.

No, they can't. WAAAAALT!

[jeff125va]

Wow, that's an understatement. :) Didn't opening the hatch set all of this in motion?
Not really. A lot of stuff would have still happened whether they'd opened the hatch or not. They still would have captured Walt. Ben pretending he was Henry Gale which led to Michael trading Jack et. al. for Walt didn't really hinge on the hatch. And the freighter people coming and Naomi parachuting onto the island certainly didn't depend on the hatch being opened.

[unicorngoddess]

If it is Michael, i'm glad that we are coming up with some new questions to make it interesting for us, because i was getting bored with the idea that it was. As chavez and unicorngoddess said, a few things had to happen between Michael leaving the island and getting to the freighter, .. if he went straight to the freighter or got picked up by the freighter, he didn't know he was suppose to spy for Ben. So who else did Michael intercept to get his instructions to be Ben's spy. As people have said here, i find it sooo hard that after what he has been through (ha ha, get it BEN through) Michael finally finds other people to talk to and they are just telling him..ok you are not rescued go spy. They can’t do the whole hold Walt hostage thing again.

What if it just turns out that he actually IS trying to help his friends. Maybe Ben told Walt, look...you and your dad are going to leave on this boat. But what about your friends? If you want them to live you and your dad are going to have to stay on the freighter and let me know what's going on because they are very bad people and they could hurt your friends.

We all wondered why Walt would just let his dad drive away without asking about their "friends" they were leaving behind. Could it be because Walt knew the only way to help them was to get on that freighter???

[jeff125va]

Why not? Didn't Michael have lots of alone time with Ben and his people before he went back to camp to lure Jack, Kate, Sawyer and Hurley to Ben?
It's possible, but I'm pretty sure we saw Michael alone with Mrs. Klugh when she was telling him whom he needed to bring back to trade for Walt. He may have been putting on an act with Ben on the dock at the Pala Ferry, but why wouldn't Mrs. Klugh have told him the whole plan at that point? The ONLY opportunity Ben would have had to tell him was right after Michael shot himself and let Ben go, and I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't in a huge hurry to get out of there or that Michael was in any condition to commit all of those instructions to memory.

If Ben talked to anyone, I think it was Walt, like unicorngoddess said.

[aindik]

It's possible, but I'm pretty sure we saw Michael alone with Mrs. Klugh when she was telling him whom he needed to bring back to trade for Walt. He may have been putting on an act with Ben on the dock at the Pala Ferry, but why wouldn't Mrs. Klugh have told him the whole plan at that point? The ONLY opportunity Ben would have had to tell him was right after Michael shot himself and let Ben go, and I'd be surprised if Ben wasn't in a huge hurry to get out of there or that Michael was in any condition to commit all of those instructions to memory.

If Ben talked to anyone, I think it was Walt, like unicorngoddess said.

Maybe Mrs. Klugh wasn't in on it. Ben kept plenty of his own people in the dark on these things, I think.

Wasn't Michael in their camp for a while? How do we know Ben didn't have an opportunity to explain things to him at that time? ("How do we know" means I very well could be forgetting something).

[Cindy1230]

Sorry if i'm smeeking... but I'm not at home to check the episodes, but we've seen Harold Perrineau in the credits all season. Have we seen Malcolm David Kelley (Waaaaallllt) in the opening credits?

Harold Perrineau is on imdb for this season but not Malcom David Kelley

[jking]

I can see a situation where Michael and Walt made it to the freighter, and the people aboard didn't act too happy to see him, nor too willing to take him home or do anything to rescue his friends. Michael starts getting suspicious and somehow radios back to the island, hoping to get in touch with Jack somehow. Instead he gets Ben and the rest is "Ben is a master manipulator" history.

[jeff125va]

Maybe Mrs. Klugh wasn't in on it. Ben kept plenty of his own people in the dark on these things, I think.

Wasn't Michael in their camp for a while? How do we know Ben didn't have an opportunity to explain things to him at that time? ("How do we know" means I very well could be forgetting something).
Ben was locked up in the hatch. Michael was out searching for Walt. Michael came back and freed Ben after killing Ana-Lucia and Libby (who, by the way, are now dead as a result of being killed). Michael freed Ben, then Ben went back to The Others and Michael took Jack and crew back to The Others and Ben.