Terminator: SCC "Season Finale" 3/3/08 [Text View]

robpickles

03-03-2008, 09:15 PM

Somehow my SP for TSCC was lower than something else and I didn't catch it until the first commercial break. :( Can someone fill me in on what happened in case I can't find another method of watching it?

Thanks

Chromeartie went to the High school and killed some office guy and looked up info for all boys who joined school since the fall. Started looking for John in school.

BAG found chip in Camerons room and they decided to use it to look into it's "brain". John and Cameron go buy some computer equipment to read the chip. She says she sometimes "lies" to him. They start working on looking at the records on the chip. Find out the 888 had a wife.

That's about it till the first break.

Rob :)

Topher5000

03-03-2008, 09:52 PM

BAM!

What was with the weird country music?

Rob :)

The Johnny Cash song quoted the bible verse Agent Ellison said to Sarah's husband.

busyba

03-03-2008, 10:09 PM

Chromeartie went to the High school and killed some office guy and looked up info for all boys who joined school since the fall. Started looking for John in school.
To be precise, he went to some kind of central office covering many schools (city board of education probably) and asked for boys who joined any school in town since the fall.

busyba

03-03-2008, 10:10 PM

I can't believe that's it. If FOX cancels this without paying it off, I may have to terminate them.

bsnelson

03-03-2008, 10:10 PM

Did anyone else only get the first hour? My SP on my HR10 only got the first hour for some reason.

Brad

dswallow

03-03-2008, 10:18 PM

That's gotta be a very memorable birthday gift for John; to see his Dad.

It's certainly a pretty strange way to end a season; it feels like the next season basically has to pick up on the same day.

Why did Kester let the FBI agent live? I like the idea of him switching to John/Sarah's side and becoming a new resoruce for them, just not sure I find the way he was left alive all that believable, considering how game of FBI agent toss-into-the-pool that had just occurred.

I have to say almost every episode has been better than the previous one, and I really do look forward to more (yeah, yeah... FOX...). :)

TIVO_GUY_HERE

03-03-2008, 10:36 PM

Ya, this show was really getting better. Is it for sure not coming back?

Sorry Brad, I deleted it after I watched it.

busyba

03-03-2008, 10:40 PM

Why did Kester let the FBI agent live? I like the idea of him switching to John/Sarah's side and becoming a new resoruce for them, just not sure I find the way he was left alive all that believable, considering how game of FBI agent toss-into-the-pool that had just occurred.
That did seem kind of forced. My best guess was that maybe he wasn't perceived at that moment to be a threat? His weapon was lowered and his head was down and he was, I imagine, praying.

Another thing to consider is that Cromartie knew who this particular agent was, and he knew that he was on the Sarah Conner case. Maybe he kept him alive because he might be useful to surveil later on in order to find John.

busyba

03-03-2008, 10:41 PM

Is it for sure not coming back?

I haven't heard anything one way or another, I'm just assuming that we'll get screwed because it's Fox.

dswallow

03-03-2008, 10:41 PM

Ya, this show was really getting better. Is it for sure not coming back?
I don't think there's anything certain yet, only that the 4 unproduced episodes of the 13-episode first season order won't be produced for this season. Whether there is a second season or not remains to be seen.

MacThor

03-03-2008, 11:07 PM

Perhaps Cromartie knows that Ellison must survive to bring about Judgment Day?

billypritchard

03-03-2008, 11:09 PM

Why did Kester let the FBI agent live? I like the idea of him switching to John/Sarah's side and becoming a new resoruce for them, just not sure I find the way he was left alive all that believable, considering how game of FBI agent toss-into-the-pool that had just occurred.

My guess was that perhaps Agent Ellison in some way factors in the creation of Skynet. When Cromartie finds out Ellison has the files, the clerk says Agent Ellison, and Cromartie replys "James Ellison". Wasn't that the first time he would have heard his name? If so, how did he know the first name? Just an idea to bandy about until hopefully season 2 (be good to us Fox, please, just once!).

appleye1

03-03-2008, 11:31 PM

"They're gonna need some more FBI guys, I guess!" Dwayne T. Robinson:D

Kamakzie

03-03-2008, 11:44 PM

Give my beautiful Summernator her skin back! I wonder how she will fix her outer skin. She would survive the blast but her skin would burn. Also was the Hispanic chick a terminator??? I didn't quite get why she was helping. Please Fox start making right for previous wrongs and give this show a 2nd season!

MacThor

03-04-2008, 12:01 AM

I think we were supposed to assume Chola hung back from her lookout spot and knew the baddies had killed her crew. She followed them, which led her to the safehouse.

Barmat

03-04-2008, 01:15 AM

Remember this is Fox we're talking about. This show was probably canceled 10min after it was given the green light.

appleye1

03-04-2008, 01:25 AM

Remember this is Fox we're talking about. This show was probably canceled 10min after it was given the green light.
PBIH Fox!
(Potentially Burn In Hell, Fox!

dtivouser

03-04-2008, 01:46 AM

What was the deal with the hispanic woman who helped find the bad guys? I can't remember seeing her previously in this series.

JETarpon

03-04-2008, 01:53 AM

http://www.canada.com/globaltv/globalshows/et_story.html?id=59569db4-91a7-4a7f-adc2-130f17a08347

Sarah Connor Chronicles ends its strike-shortened first season Monday, March 3 with back-to-back episodes, but it will be back in the fall. In a season with more misses (Bionic Woman, Big Shots, Cane, etc.) than hits, the show is a bona fide contender. It has pulled down 24-size numbers in 24's original time period, and like Arnold Schwarzenegger's titular character in the original Terminator film, it will be back.

pjenkins

03-04-2008, 02:12 AM

it will be back.

and there was much rejoicing :)

JETarpon

03-04-2008, 02:22 AM

I can't tell from that article if it's official, or if it's just speculation that with the rating it's getting, there's no way that it will not be renewed.

JYoung

03-04-2008, 02:31 AM

BAM!

What was with the weird country music?

Rob :)

The Johnny Cash song quoted the bible verse Agent Ellison said to Sarah's husband.

The Man Comes Around by Johnny Cash from American IV: The Man Comes Around

That's gotta be a very memorable birthday gift for John; to see his Dad.

I liked that part. It was well done.

It's certainly a pretty strange way to end a season; it feels like the next season basically has to pick up on the same day.

Well, the strike may have something to do with it.

And I'm going to guess that Cameron wasn't in the Jeep when it blew.
(and even if she was, she can be repaired)

appleye1

03-04-2008, 02:39 AM

And I'm going to guess that Cameron wasn't in the Jeep when it blew.
(and even if she was, she can be repaired)
Tapping my feeble memory here, but when Cameron destroyed that terminator earlier didn't she keep some of the flesh? Maybe she already knew that she'd need it one day soon?

Summernator stripped naked = hot!
Summernator stripped naked of her skin = not hot!

TiVo Bum

03-04-2008, 03:14 AM

My guess was that perhaps Agent Ellison in some way factors in the creation of Skynet. When Cromartie finds out Ellison has the files, the clerk says Agent Ellison, and Cromartie replys "James Ellison". Wasn't that the first time he would have heard his name? If so, how did he know the first name? Just an idea to bandy about until hopefully season 2 (be good to us Fox, please, just once!).Remember Ellison had visited Cromartie at his apartment earlier in the season and left his business card.

Peter000

03-04-2008, 04:36 AM

The episodes weren't lame in and of themselves, but on the whole, as season ending eps?

LAME.

I did enjoy John seeing his father. Best. Birthday. Ever.

Also, I loved the Johnny Cash song near the end. Downloaded it 5 minutes after the show ended. That album is pretty good on the whole, too. That whole scene was extremely well done, with the pool shot and all.

Nitpick: I don't know why, but the terminators having names really bugs me. I know it's necessary for the ease of storytelling, but still. It approaches giving them personalities, which terminators just shouldn't have. They're killin' machines. And where did the name "Cromartie" come from anyway?

wmcbrine

03-04-2008, 04:39 AM

What was the deal with the hispanic woman who helped find the bad guys? I can't remember seeing her previously in this series.If you missed her in the "Previously on..." segment... remember her leaning against the car (imitated by Cameron) when Sarah went to get fake IDs from Enrique's nephew?

She didn't talk then, either.

newsposter

03-04-2008, 05:48 AM

I dont get it... are we supposed to think the car bomb destroyed her? memory may be failing but early in the series didnt the other bot get much worse done to him and he still survived?

around minute 53 was that someone of significance that died? they focused on him laying on the ground but i was otherwise distracted and didnt get a close look

lambertman

03-04-2008, 05:57 AM

I can't tell from that article if it's official, or if it's just speculation that with the rating it's getting, there's no way that it will not be renewed.

They're speculating based on its *Canadian* ratings. The show has not been as successful here as it has up there.

cwoody222

03-04-2008, 06:00 AM

yaddayaddayadda

03-04-2008, 06:18 AM

I totally called the going to see the young reese boys (YLAM!). It seemed they were trying to go for a Sopranos vibe there at the end.

Overall, I just have to say WTF with this season. So many things are completely unresolved and otherwise pointless. The weird skinny girl at the new school? The hispanic girl? Real or not? What's the point of all these people protecting the turk? To them it's nothing more than a chess playing computer....not something worth 3 million dollars.

wmcbrine

03-04-2008, 06:27 AM

So many things are completely unresolved and otherwise pointless.Not surprising there are things unresolved -- writer's strike ya know -- I don't think this was meant to be the seaon finale; it just turned out that way.

The hispanic girl? Real or not?Huh? Yes, real. Why wouldn't she be real?

What's the point of all these people protecting the turk? To them it's nothing more than a chess playing computer....not something worth 3 million dollars.Why wouldn't it be worth three million? It's the design and programming that are valuable, not the hardware per se. We have to assume that plans/backups/etc. were destroyed or never existed.

heySkippy

03-04-2008, 06:31 AM

The hispanic girl is no mystery, she's been out front of Enrique's nephew's place every time the show went there.

As for the guy in the alley, they thought they'd killed whomever had The Turk, but it appears there was another power behind him.

I really liked this (shortened) first season.

yaddayaddayadda

03-04-2008, 06:33 AM

Not surprising there are things unresolved -- writer's strike ya know -- I don't think this was meant to be the seaon finale; it just turned out that way.

Huh? Yes, real. Why wouldn't she be real?

Why wouldn't it be worth three million? It's the design and programming that are valuable, not the hardware per se. We have to assume that plans/backups/etc. were destroyed or never existed.

She wouldn't be real because she appeared to be shot in the midsection but was walking around . By real I mean not a terminator.

I guess I don't see the significance of the turk being this big thing everyone's after. I'll blame those striking writers.

dswallow

03-04-2008, 06:38 AM

She wouldn't be real because she appeared to be shot in the midsection but was walking around . By real I mean not a terminator.
There was hardly any blood. I'd thought she'd just gotten it on her when she went inside and found her people dead.

lew

03-04-2008, 06:39 AM

I've read the ratings were just OK but the series is extremely expensive to produce.

I don't think we'll like a compromise decision, renew but with a much lower budget.

Sirius Black

03-04-2008, 07:02 AM

At least they aired all the episodes that were produced and in the correct order.

Not sure why Ellison was allowed to live. They've made it clear that the removal of one person will do very little to stop JD. They have to cause a major disruption in the events leading to it for that to happen and even then, I doubt it is avoidable. T3 made that clear.

At the end of T2, all evidence of the existence of the terminators, the chip, etc., was destroyed and JD still happens. Later than originally anticipated. I believe it was April 2011 from the show last night but it did happen. Not only that, but it happened like it was originally established it would happen. Not through software (T3) but through hardware trusted to 'run it all', as Kyle would say. That's not to say that their actions would further delay JD. What does messing up the traffic/computer system three years before JD really stop? In our world, it would mean replacing it with a bigger/better/more advanced system. Not really something in our best interests based on how Skynet might use that system.

Cool birthday present to John by BAG, by the way. I'd be curious as to how BAG knew where he was all those years ago. For him, hasn't it been like 15-20 years?

balboa dave

03-04-2008, 07:10 AM

Sirius Black

03-04-2008, 07:16 AM

He turned out to be the guy they were after, but they originally thought it was the tough guy.

Was the little girl his daughter? I didn't catch what she said when they asked.

Rob Helmerichs

03-04-2008, 07:19 AM

I guess I'm the only one who recognized James Urbaniak, the guy who greeted them in the cyber cafe'. I knew immediately he was a "sleeper" character.
Yeah, that's the kind of Hollywood tell that's pretty much unavoidable...if it's going to be an important role you don't want to hire a complete nobody, but if you want the character to be a surprise it will be spoiled by having him recognized before his importance is revealed.

The laziness that bothers me is (as has been pointed out) having Cromarty let Ellison live for no apparent reason other than story convenience, and also having the ambulance dispatcher talk about a possible future call and giving the suspect's name for the sole purpose of giving the paramedic an excuse to go to the scene. That was just weak beyond belief, and while the show has improved dramatically this kind of thing still just yanks me right out of it.
Was the little girl his daughter? I didn't catch what she said when they asked.
She wasn't the daughter of the guy they killed, but I suppose she may or may not have been the daughter of the guy they were really after...

dswallow

03-04-2008, 07:34 AM

Was the little girl his daughter? I didn't catch what she said when they asked.

Her daddy works in the cafe (or cafeteria).

Rob Helmerichs

03-04-2008, 07:37 AM

Her daddy works in the cafe (or cafeteria).
I think she said her Daddy WENT to the cafe.

And that he was gaunt.

Donbadabon

03-04-2008, 07:37 AM

My best guess was that maybe he wasn't perceived at that moment to be a threat?

That is very Borg-like.

loubob57

03-04-2008, 07:40 AM

I'm glad I didn't delete this. I think I'll have to rewatch it to pick up on some of the details I obviously missed.

danterner

03-04-2008, 07:53 AM

The laziness that bothers me is (as has been pointed out) having Cromarty let Ellison live for no apparent reason other than story convenience, and also having the ambulance dispatcher talk about a possible future call and giving the suspect's name for the sole purpose of giving the paramedic an excuse to go to the scene. That was just weak beyond belief, and while the show has improved dramatically this kind of thing still just yanks me right out of it.

+1 on both of those points. (+2?)

I also had problems with John's ability to get data from the 888 memory core using the "cool computer parts available only if you have connections in Korea." I can accept that John is supposed to be some sort of technology whiz that can do amazing things like that, and like writing quick computer viruses, but I wish the show invested just a scene or two into better establishing that as a component of his character. Shouldn't his tech skills still be about 8 years behind the current technology, due to their leap forward in time? Everything he knows should be outdated. Especially given the show's talk of Moore's Law and how technology advances exponentially, what John can do is truly amazing.

At least this week Ellison called it Revelation, not Revelations - when he did, I thought "ah, Rob will be pleased." :)

Rob Helmerichs

03-04-2008, 08:07 AM

At least this week Ellison called it Revelation, not Revelations - when he did, I thought "ah, Rob will be pleased." :)
Yeah, I forgot about that...when he said it, I thought "Ah! He's had a little religious education since last week!" :D

(Which is kind of ironic, because I'm an atheist...)

heySkippy

03-04-2008, 08:09 AM

I would like to know if there was a noticeable bump in sales of that Johnny Cash tune after the show. I went to the iTMS this AM and bought it for myself, my very first country genre song purchase ever. It's a powerful song.

robpickles

03-04-2008, 08:20 AM

I also had problems with John's ability to get data from the 888 memory core using the "cool computer parts available only if you have connections in Korea." I can accept that John is supposed to be some sort of technology whiz that can do amazing things like that, and like writing quick computer viruses

Well what kind of tech advacnes are we talking about? The speed of CPUs, the storage capacities of hard drives, slightly different MB technology - not that much of a change that he couldn't recognize what things were.

Also, he had the guy he was buying it from explain the changes/advances to him and their capabilites. Plus, he had Cameron explaining what he needed to make the chip work.

As for the virus - He is a computer genius. Made that ATM codebreaking machine in T2, why couldn't he write a virus to shut down the traffic system?

Overall it didn't seem like tha big of a stretch.

Rob :)

MacThor

03-04-2008, 08:24 AM

Another take on the "Cromartie letting Ellison live" thing.....

Cromartie's mission is to kill John Connor. It is at somewhat of a dead end, and has even eliminated John's high school from its canvass. It also knows that Ellison is trying to find Sarah & John. So, letting Ellison live improves its odds of completing its mission.

It established precedent for this in the pilot, when it let Sarah live (in fact, I think it stopped her from shooting herself) because killing her would prevent it from finding John.

Bonus for Cromartie is that it sent the message to Ellison -- very powerfully -- that he's powerless to stop it.

needo

03-04-2008, 09:08 AM

Nitpick: I don't know why, but the terminators having names really bugs me. I know it's necessary for the ease of storytelling, but still. It approaches giving them personalities, which terminators just shouldn't have. They're killin' machines. And where did the name "Cromartie" come from anyway?

Cromartie was the name the Terminator used to introduce himself in the pilot episode.

needo

03-04-2008, 09:09 AM

Cool birthday present to John by BAG, by the way. I'd be curious as to how BAG knew where he was all those years ago. For him, hasn't it been like 15-20 years?

Yeah but spending from your 15th birthday on living in squalor and fighting a war probably makes such memories very valuable.

ScottE22

03-04-2008, 10:18 AM

The Man Comes Around by Johnny Cash from American IV: The Man Comes Around

I love my iPhone. I'm at work (away from my iTunes at home) and was able to visit the iTunes Wi-Fi store and purchase this song in 2 minutes.

Carry on.

Kamakzie

03-04-2008, 10:25 AM

I didn't understand the part where Summernator was in the car with the Latina girl and she said "Should I kill you now?" What was that all about??

JYoung

03-04-2008, 10:34 AM

At the end of T2, all evidence of the existence of the terminators, the chip, etc., was destroyed and JD still happens. Later than originally anticipated. I believe it was April 2011 from the show last night but it did happen. Not only that, but it happened like it was originally established it would happen. Not through software (T3) but through hardware trusted to 'run it all', as Kyle would say. That's not to say that their actions would further delay JD. What does messing up the traffic/computer system three years before JD really stop? In our world, it would mean replacing it with a bigger/better/more advanced system. Not really something in our best interests based on how Skynet might use that system.

There was dialog that indicated that they were of the opinion that the system would be scrapped if it totally screwed up. Considering how image conscious the Los Angeles City Council is, that's not a far off assumption.

I would like to know if there was a noticeable bump in sales of that Johnny Cash tune after the show. I went to the iTMS this AM and bought it for myself, my very first country genre song purchase ever. It's a powerful song.

IMO, the whole album is powerful. But if you must get only one other song on there, may I suggest Cash's rendition of Hurt?

Also, if you listen to the whole album, if you keep in mind that it was recorded shortly after June Carter's death and shortly before Cash's death, it becomes extremely poignent.

hanumang

03-04-2008, 10:35 AM

Nitpick: I don't know why, but the terminators having names really bugs me. I know it's necessary for the ease of storytelling, but still. It approaches giving them personalities, which terminators just shouldn't have. They're killin' machines.

Actually, I took the point of much of Vick's Chip to be that Terminators (in the TSCC universe) are far more sophisticated than we thought. After all, Vick was playing house (for what might have been years) so Terminators - at least if they're 'Advanced Infiltration Models' - need to have personality.

Yeah, not for the purists, and certainly not my favorite element, but I think the writing team covered their bases OK.

Sparty99

03-04-2008, 10:37 AM

IMO, the whole album is powerful. But if you must get only one other song on there, may I suggest Cash's rendition of Hurt?
I was about to post the same thing. The video of Hurt would be worth the extra $2 as well.

hanumang

03-04-2008, 10:49 AM

Cool birthday present to John by BAG, by the way.

Yeah, a (surprisingly) poignant moment. I though Thomas Dekker's performance was excellent.

I had no expectations for this show - didn't think the Terminator franchise would translate to TV - but I've become a real fan. I'd actually be upset if this doesn't get renewed.

gchance

03-04-2008, 11:49 AM

Also, if you listen to the whole album, if you keep in mind that it was recorded shortly after June Carter's death and shortly before Cash's death, it becomes extremely poignent.

Unless Hurt was recorded way before the rest of the album, I think your timing is off. Both June Carter & Johnny Cash are in the video for Hurt.

Greg

bruinfan

03-04-2008, 12:10 PM

At the end when John said that the guy Derek killed in the alley wasn't the guy who they thought it was... when/who did Derek kill in an alley? I must have not paid attention.

And the guy who they thought alley-guy was really was the guy who planted the bomb at the very end, right? (based on the pic John found on the computer)

As for the guy in the alley, they thought they'd killed whomever had The Turk, but it appears there was another power behind him.
The guy sarah was looking for was sarkissian(sp?). they assumed the guy they had contact with was him, and when they killed him and recovered the turk hard drive, it was over. but then john figured out that sarkissian was not the guy they killed. the guy they killed was a middle man.

And sarkissian was the guy who planted the car bomb... which means that he's going to figure in the storyline and try to get his turk back. so he becomes a side plot that sarah has to deal with while saving the world.

assuming fox renews, that is.

At the end of T2, all evidence of the existence of the terminators, the chip, etc., was destroyed and JD still happens. Later than originally anticipated. I believe it was April 2011 from the show last night but it did happen. Not only that, but it happened like it was originally established it would happen. Not through software (T3) but through hardware trusted to 'run it all', as Kyle would say. That's not to say that their actions would further delay JD. What does messing up the traffic/computer system three years before JD really stop? In our world, it would mean replacing it with a bigger/better/more advanced system. Not really something in our best interests based on how Skynet might use that system.
There was dialog that indicated that they were of the opinion that the system would be scrapped if it totally screwed up. Considering how image conscious the Los Angeles City Council is, that's not a far off assumption.
so there is no avoiding Judgement Day, then. cuz technology is always going to advance... they may scrap that plan, but they won't stop looking for solutions.
I think she said her Daddy WENT to the cafe.

And that he was gaunt.

Her daddy works in the cafe (or cafeteria).
works

Actually, I took the point of much of Vick's Chip to be that Terminators (in the TSCC universe) are far more sophisticated than we thought. After all, Vick was playing house (for what might have been years) so Terminators - at least if they're 'Advanced Infiltration Models' - need to have personality.

So this terminator can have sex, huh?

hmmm, john is kinda falling for summer... hmmm... terminators can have sex... hmmm... future story line? I'm all for it if it means less clothes for summer glau. :p

we need a poll... sex with super hot robots? yay or nay?

heySkippy

03-04-2008, 12:13 PM

The guy sarah was looking for was sarkissian(sp?). they assumed the guy they had contact with was him, and when they killed him and recovered the turk hard drive, it was over. but then john figured out that sarkissian was not the guy they killed. the guy they killed was a middle man.

Was it the Turk's hard drive or the dead guy's personal computer hard drive that was recovered? I was under the impression that the Turk is still missing. If it was the Turk's hard drive, why was John spending all that time decrypting files when they should have been burning it up in the white phosphorus bed.

bruinfan

03-04-2008, 12:14 PM

Was it the Turk's hard drive or the dead guy's personal computer hard drive that was recovered? I was under the impression that the Turk is still missing. If it was the Turk's hard drive, why was John spending all that time decrypting files when they should have been burning it up in the white phosphorus bed.

yeah, you're probably right.

needo

03-04-2008, 12:36 PM

we need a poll... sex with super hot robots? yay or nay?

Women have sex with machines all the time so how is this wrong? :) (This point was brought up by my wife.)

wmcbrine

03-04-2008, 01:09 PM

I didn't understand the part where Summernator was in the car with the Latina girl and she said "Should I kill you now?" What was that all about??Imagine it was prefaced with "Are you going to keep quiet about this, or..."

JETarpon

03-04-2008, 01:23 PM

and also having the ambulance dispatcher talk about a possible future call and giving the suspect's name for the sole purpose of giving the paramedic an excuse to go to the scene.

I took the mention of a person impersonating an FBI agent, and that "agent's" name to be a warning to responding units that if they were approached by an FBI agent with that name to know that he was not official, and not to obey him.

Her daddy works in the cafe (or cafeteria).

I think she said her Daddy WENT to the cafe.

And that he was gaunt.

I assumed that by "cafe" they meant internet cafe, and that the father was the real sarkissian.

Langree

03-04-2008, 01:27 PM

BAM!

What was with the weird country music?

Rob :)

The Man Comes Around, 2002.

Off of American IV: The Man Comes Around.

The last Album Cash released while he was alive.

Written by Cash.

This song was used during the opening montage for the 2004 film Dawn of the Dead as well as the credits for the film The Hunted. The song was also used in Gordon Ramsay's television series Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares.

The song was featured in the conclusion of the Season 1 finale of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles, featured prominently in an FBI raid sequence and in the final scene, where a main character gets into her car and a bomb is set off.

TriBruin

03-04-2008, 01:27 PM

Women have sex with machines all the time so how is this wrong? :) (This point was brought up by my wife.)

I'm sorry. :)

Langree

03-04-2008, 01:32 PM

Unless Hurt was recorded way before the rest of the album, I think your timing is off. Both June Carter & Johnny Cash are in the video for Hurt.

Greg

June Died in 2003, a few months prior to Johnny.

busyba

03-04-2008, 02:18 PM

I did enjoy John seeing his father. Best. Birthday. Ever.
It must have been very dusty in my apartment during that scene; I think I got something in my eye.

TIVO_GUY_HERE

03-04-2008, 03:47 PM

Derek: “Remind me again, why the boys are out here and the girls are in there.”
John: “Because one of the boys is still wanted for murder and one of the girls is
harder than nuclear nails.”
Derek: “And the other one's a cyborg.”

Aniketos

03-04-2008, 05:22 PM

IMO, the whole album is powerful. But if you must get only one other song on there, may I suggest Cash's rendition of Hurt?

When that album came out and Hurt was getting a lot of radio play I couldn't help but come up with an impersonation of Johnny Cash singing "Closer".

gchance

03-04-2008, 05:36 PM

June Died in 2003, a few months prior to Johnny.

Right, a few months before Johnny. But what I'm saying about timing is of when the song/album were recorded, which you said was between June's death and Johnny's. How could June appear in his video, standing next to him, if she was dead? And no, it wasn't special effects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

Greg

Langree

03-04-2008, 05:43 PM

Right, a few months before Johnny. But what I'm saying about timing is of when the song/album were recorded, which you said was between June's death and Johnny's. How could June appear in his video, standing next to him, if she was dead? And no, it wasn't special effects.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmVAWKfJ4Go

Greg

?? The album was released in 2002, a year before either death.

gchance

03-04-2008, 05:46 PM

IMO, the whole album is powerful. But if you must get only one other song on there, may I suggest Cash's rendition of Hurt?

Also, if you listen to the whole album, if you keep in mind that it was recorded shortly after June Carter's death and shortly before Cash's death, it becomes extremely poignent.

?? The album was released in 2002, a year before either death.

I think there's just a collosal misunderstanding here. Langree, I'm completely with you. JYoung, I thought you were saying Hurt was recorded after June's death, shortly before Johnny's.

*sigh* carry on. :)

Greg

thebigmo

03-04-2008, 06:09 PM

At the end when Charley was getting out of the ambulance and was watching Kester/Cromartie walking away, why was there a flicker in the video. Is Charley a terminator or am I putting too much into it? Or was it my TV/DVR messing up?

Rob64

03-04-2008, 06:23 PM

I think Cromartie let Ellison live because he is going to use him because he knows Ellison is tracking Sarah and John

balboa dave

03-04-2008, 06:54 PM

DanB

03-04-2008, 10:20 PM

So cromarties' "last name" is from the traffic control system?

JYoung

03-05-2008, 01:39 AM

I think there's just a collosal misunderstanding here. Langree, I'm completely with you. JYoung, I thought you were saying Hurt was recorded after June's death, shortly before Johnny's.

*sigh* carry on. :)

Greg

I was but I was mistaken.
However, Cash knew that he was nearing the end of his life when recording this album.

When you considered how soon he followed June into that great band in the sky, his rendition of "We'll Meet Again" is quite bittersweet.

DevdogAZ

03-05-2008, 01:46 AM

Cool birthday present to John by BAG, by the way. I'd be curious as to how BAG knew where he was all those years ago. For him, hasn't it been like 15-20 years?
My guess is that Derek and Kyle spent much time playing ball at that park, so it was probably a pretty safe assumption on his part.

s2krazy

03-05-2008, 03:34 AM

we need a poll... sex with super hot robots? yay or nay?

Why do I think that Grant from Mythbusters may have already answered this question.

jones07

03-05-2008, 05:16 AM

I didn't understand the part where Summernator was in the car with the Latina girl and she said "Should I kill you now?" What was that all about??

Yeah that completely lost me as well. At first I was thinking the Latina girl was a bot, but not now.

Einselen

03-05-2008, 07:53 AM

Yeah that completely lost me as well. At first I was thinking the Latina girl was a bot, but not now.

I think it is the fact that the Latina girl now knows about the Summernator and JC (hmmm I just noticed that) and could be a liability if she talks to the wrong people.

Timbeau

03-05-2008, 08:19 AM

Give my beautiful Summernator her skin back! I wonder how she will fix her outer skin. She would survive the blast but her skin would burn.

I wonder if this means we'll see a different actress as Cameron -- if we see any more shows at all...

ihatecable

03-05-2008, 08:36 AM

heySkippy

03-05-2008, 08:59 AM

Another thing about the SWAT team in the pool, wouldn't they sink like rocks with all that body armor and gear?

Regardless, it was a very well conceived scene.

lew

03-05-2008, 09:14 AM

The thing that bothered me was the whole FBI attempted take down of Kester/Cromartie. They had about 8-10 agents in full body armor going down like flies, the only way this would have been possible was if the terminator was using was using armor piercing bullets(which could be possible). But at some point you think they would fall back and call for back up and not conveniently all fall into the same pool. I’m just saying… lol

I'm assuming they were thrown into the pool, necks could have been snapped.

Another thing about the SWAT team in the pool, wouldn't they sink like rocks with all that body armor and gear?

Regardless, it was a very well conceived scene.

Of course but that wouldn't have the same visual impact.

ihatecable

03-05-2008, 09:31 AM

I'm assuming they were thrown into the pool, necks could have been snapped.Umm to take a page out of Monty Python, "run away! run away!" but after the third dude hits the water I would think someone would call on their radio for backup.

DevdogAZ

03-05-2008, 09:58 AM

I'm assuming they were thrown into the pool, necks could have been snapped.
Except that they all started turning the water red when they hit.

Einselen

03-05-2008, 10:05 AM

I am not sure if all turned red when hitting water.

Also the first guy went in (I would always hate to be that guy) and he was thrown out quickly. My guess is the rest of the team all ran in after that one after the other and was like hmm one guy, we got this, but then were quickly killed and thrown out of the room. That is why I think you see just a few in the pool then a whole bunch back to back.

DevdogAZ

03-05-2008, 10:12 AM

Oh, and how is it that there were no other residents of that apartment complex coming out and seeing what happened, especially the part where Cromartie and Ellison were looking at each other?

Einselen

03-05-2008, 10:15 AM

Oh, and how is it that there were no other residents of that apartment complex coming out and seeing what happened, especially the part where Cromartie and Ellison were looking at each other?

maybe it was abandoned or cromartie bought the entire complex?

I know that answer, cause you are supposed to suspend disbelief and just enjoy the FBI SWAT team being thrown into the pool along with the music (wise choice and nicely directed IMO)

lew

03-05-2008, 10:21 AM

Sometimes we think too much. Other then those two points, everything else is believable?

Umm to take a page out of Monty Python, "run away! run away!" but after the third dude hits the water I would think someone would call on their radio for backup.

I can't believe what I'm seeing. Ten seconds later they're all gone. How long would it take you to throw 10 books out a window?

Except that they all started turning the water red when they hit.

OK, one of them hit their head on the side of the pool.

We can't really watch this show if we're expecting realism. This is hardly a documentary.

MickeS

03-05-2008, 01:37 PM

Oh, and how is it that there were no other residents of that apartment complex coming out and seeing what happened, especially the part where Cromartie and Ellison were looking at each other?
If people are shooting outside, I bet most will stay inside and lock their doors.

The big finale was surreal, but I liked it. :) A creative way to keep the budget down.

I hope the show comes back.

Tangent

03-05-2008, 02:19 PM

My first throught at the end was that Sarkissian really blew up the wrong person! I'm guessing that the decision that led to blowing up the Summernator will not end well for him... :p

stellie93

03-05-2008, 07:21 PM

What did BAG mean when he told John that "one of them" will kill you some day, or something like that? Was he just saying machines in general and guessing most likely probability, or did he mean the Summernator model in particular? And how would he know since John was still alive supposedly when he came to the past? Or was he... I still think there was something weird about John's role in the future, like when someone said, no one ever sees him. Maybe he was killed and someone else is running things in his name.

hanumang

03-05-2008, 07:47 PM

busyba

03-05-2008, 07:55 PM

Here's what I don't get....

They went out of their way to show us a picture of the dead Miles Dyson, and the picture was not of Joe Morton, the actor who played him in T2, but of actor Phil Morris.

That just screams that Dyson is somehow not really dead and he's going to figure into the plot somehow. Or, at the very least, he is really dead but we're going to see him in flashbacks. There's no other reason to show a picture of him and use a recognizable actor who isn't the original actor.

But here we are, end of season and no payoff.

I guess in a non-strike-shortened season, there would have been a payoff?

Turtleboy

03-05-2008, 07:55 PM

I was but I was mistaken.
However, Cash knew that he was nearing the end of his life when recording this album.

When you considered how soon he followed June into that great band in the sky, his rendition of "We'll Meet Again" is quite bittersweet.

The misunderstanding continues.

First, I have all Four American albums (actually five including the posthoumous one) along with the Unearthed Collection. I am a huge fan.

You said that AMIV was recorded after June's death.

They said the no, it was recorded before her death.

They are correct.

You are correct that Johnny knew he was dying when he recorded it -- no one is arguing with that.

hanumang

03-05-2008, 08:15 PM

They went out of their way to show us a picture of the dead Miles Dyson, and the picture was not of Joe Morton, the actor who played him in T2, but of actor Phil Morris.

I suspect they do indeed want to keep the door open for flashbacks. While Andy is no more, I suspect we were/are supposed to meet a few other of the guys who 'built' SkyNet.

As for the true plan - or future plan - being interrupted by the strike, showrunner Josh Friedman has spoken about that (http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2008/03/interview-josh.html).

busyba

03-05-2008, 08:35 PM

Turtleboy

03-05-2008, 08:52 PM

If someone killed little Kyle, what would have happened? Would John disappear and cease to exist?

Rosenkavalier

03-05-2008, 09:02 PM

And I'm going to guess that Cameron wasn't in the Jeep when it blew.
(and even if she was, she can be repaired)

There's an odd aspect to this, which may have just been a continuity or editing error. But it might also have been an extremely subtle detail - I just don't know if it's too small to count.

When John removed Cameron's chip (to use it in sabotaging the traffic network), they showed him very deliberately removing a protective cover/shield before getting to the chip itself. When he gets back and re-inserts the chip, after doing so he (apparently) immediately replaces the skin flap on her skull.

So: either the editing just skipped over that part (since it wasn't dramatically important), it was a continuity mistake (they forgot to shoot it), or...John was so worried that he forgot to put the cover/shield back in place, and when Cameron is (supposedly) in the explosion there is now the possibility of her CPU being damaged.

Just idle speculation, of course. Oh, and one other thought: Cromartie required a complete "rebuild" of his external flesh. However, on several occasions, Cameron has suffered damage to her outer skin, but has (also apparently) been able to "heal" herself. Is that possibly a function of her advanced model design? And if so, if she is only partially damaged by the blast, might she be able to restore her outer layers without going to the same extremes as Cromartie?

Langree

03-05-2008, 09:09 PM

There's an odd aspect to this, which may have just been a continuity or editing error. But it might also have been an extremely subtle detail - I just don't know if it's too small to count.

When John removed Cameron's chip (to use it in sabotaging the traffic network), they showed him very deliberately removing a protective cover/shield before getting to the chip itself. When he gets back and re-inserts the chip, after doing so he (apparently) immediately replaces the skin flap on her skull.

So: either the editing just skipped over that part (since it wasn't dramatically important), it was a continuity mistake (they forgot to shoot it), or...John was so worried that he forgot to put the cover/shield back in place, and when Cameron is (supposedly) in the explosion there is now the possibility of her CPU being damaged.

Her status told her the port was open, so I think it was just editing.

busyba

03-05-2008, 09:10 PM

So: either the editing just skipped over that part (since it wasn't dramatically important), it was a continuity mistake (they forgot to shoot it), or...John was so worried that he forgot to put the cover/shield back in place, and when Cameron is (supposedly) in the explosion there is now the possibility of her CPU being damaged.
My money is on just a simple continuity error. During the CPU removal scene, at one point we see Cameron's POV and on her HUD you can see a "CPU cover open" (or something to that effect) alert. If John had actually not replaced the CPU properly, Cameron would have known about it.

Oh, and one other thought: Cromartie required a complete "rebuild" of his external flesh. However, on several occasions, Cameron has suffered damage to her outer skin, but has (also apparently) been able to "heal" herself. Is that possibly a function of her advanced model design? And if so, if she is only partially damaged by the blast, might she be able to restore her outer layers without going to the same extremes as Cromartie?

I figure that the artificial skin has some regenerative properties. In Cromartie's case, it would seem that the isotope gun flat out vaporised all the flesh, leaving behind only the metal. Kinda hard for flesh to regenerate when not even a cell is around to regenerate from. :)

RegBarc

03-05-2008, 09:22 PM

If someone killed little Kyle, what would have happened? Would John disappear and cease to exist?
If there's one thing that bothers me about this show (and there really isn't that much) is temporal paradoxes. I can't stand them. They blow my mind.

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandfather_paradox) may help.

MacThor

03-05-2008, 09:45 PM

busyba

03-05-2008, 09:50 PM

wmcbrine

03-05-2008, 10:08 PM

So why didn't Cameron permanently disable Cromartie (by removing its CPU) immediately after shocking it in the pilot?Perhaps it would've taken longer than two minutes (reboot time).

If someone killed little Kyle, what would have happened? Would John disappear and cease to exist?No.

Consider: The entire plot of the Terminator series, from the first movie, has revolved around the premise as believed by the characters that history could be changed. The first terminator came with the mission of killing Sarah Connor, which would mean that John would never be born... which would mean that there was never a need to send back someone to kill Sarah, so then he would be born. So then they go back to kill Sarah...

The resolution of this paradox is pretty simple: When a time traveler goes back, he leaves his original "time line", and enters a new one. This, in turn, can be looked at in two ways: either the original history is erased and a new one created, or both time lines exist, in parallel. From the point of view of the traveler, it doesn't really make a difference, except philosophically. Either way, the traveler's personal past doesn't change, but he retains the only memory of the original time line.

But then there's another way to resolve the paradox: History can't be changed. You think it can, so you go back to try to change it; but you were wrong, and your actions turn out to have been part of the single, unified time line all along.

Unfortunately, the Terminator series has been inconsistent in the interpretation it has chosen. In the first movie, by the end, it's clear: There's only one history. Kyle always came back, because he was John's father, and he set Sarah on her new course.

But this was abandoned in the second movie: Instead, the protagonists tried to prevent SkyNet from ever being formed, and apparently succeeded. I don't see any logical way to reconcile this with the events of the first movie. However, at least it was a plot point -- at the beginning of T2, Sarah is acting like history is set in its course, but then she makes a conscious decision to try to change it.

Now in the new show, they find that SkyNet still happened, but differently -- history had been changed. So we're basically in the T2 interpretation, with perhaps a bit of "history tends to flow back to its original course after interference" thrown in. It still doesn't explain the closed-loop existence of John, but either way, he's not going to vanish in a puff of logic, regardless of what happens to present-day Kyle. Present-day Kyle, after all, isn't even his father -- that was the guy from several time lines ago, who experienced Judgment Day at a much younger age.

MickeS

03-05-2008, 10:14 PM

As for the true plan - or future plan - being interrupted by the strike, showrunner Josh Friedman has spoken about that (http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2008/03/interview-josh.html).

Thanks for the link. Two things I found interesting:

We do very well in DVR. We do very well on downloads. I think for our type of show that is a big chunk. We were one of the top five shows being TiVoed right now, which is how I watch the show because otherwise no one would know that I'm watching.
He watches his own show at home? :) Or just runs the recording for the ratings? :D

You know it's not actually an expensive show to produce. In fact, I think we're below the budget of many action shows that are on TV right now. In fact, our budget is much more in line with your basic drama that you would find on any network. So I don't think that cost at this point plays much of a factor.
That surprises me.

I liked his comments about the time travel paradoxes. Those are tough to deal with in a consistent manner, if not impossible.

hanumang

03-05-2008, 10:41 PM

He watches his own show at home? :) Or just runs the recording for the ratings? :D

Yeah, it might seem weird the first time your hear of it, but it's actually a fairly common thing in the biz ([re]watching final versions at home, when broadcast, on principle).

In this case in particular, Friedman stepped back from his showrunner duties when the writer's strike started, so unbelievably, he didn't oversee the editing (or completion) of most episodes. Must be really weird to be on strike from your own show and be forced to watch episodes - for the first time - on your own TiVo will all those station promos.

JYoung

03-05-2008, 11:32 PM

The misunderstanding continues.

First, I have all Four American albums (actually five including the posthoumous one) along with the Unearthed Collection. I am a huge fan.

You said that AMIV was recorded after June's death.

They said the no, it was recorded before her death.

They are correct.

You are correct that Johnny knew he was dying when he recorded it -- no one is arguing with that.

Uh, I said I was mistaken.
I don't understand your issue, TB.

Vendikarr

03-06-2008, 06:31 AM

So why didn't Cameron permanently disable Cromartie (by removing its CPU) immediately after shocking it in the pilot? She was quick to do it to the T-888 during the prison break, but not for the terminator trying to kill John?

Because she heard the Connor's truck driving off, and if she didn't leave right then, she would have lost John. She can't protect him if she can't find him. She computed that temporarily disabling Cromartie and staying with John was a better outcome than permanently disabling Cromartie and losing John.

Timbeau

03-06-2008, 09:14 AM

As for the true plan - or future plan - being interrupted by the strike, showrunner Josh Friedman has spoken about that (http://blog.zap2it.com/frominsidethebox/2008/03/interview-josh.html).

FOX has already made substantial commitments to sci-fi tinged pilots from J.J. Abrams and Joss Whedon and Friedman doesn't know what to expect looking forward.

This sounds nice, does anyone know anything about these shows?

hanumang

03-06-2008, 09:26 AM

This sounds nice, does anyone know anything about these shows?

If The Futon Critic has it right (and he usually does :)) Joss Whedon's show is Dollhouse (http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?id=dollhouse), J.J. Abrams' is Fringe (http://www.thefutoncritic.com/devwatch.aspx?id=fringe).

DevdogAZ

03-06-2008, 11:14 AM

Yeah, it might seem weird the first time your hear of it, but it's actually a fairly common thing in the biz ([re]watching final versions at home, when broadcast, on principle).

In this case in particular, Friedman stepped back from his showrunner duties when the writer's strike started, so unbelievably, he didn't oversee the editing (or completion) of most episodes. Must be really weird to be on strike from your own show and be forced to watch episodes - for the first time - on your own TiVo will all those station promos.
Are you saying that these episodes were not complete prior to the beginning of the strike? I thought that all of Hollywood pretty much went into shutdown, including filming and editing, during the strike. So if that's the case, how is it that him stepping back as showrunner during the strike had any effect on whether he completed the editing and completion? I would think that the eps that we're seeing now were all complete prior to the strike.

Vendikarr

03-06-2008, 11:25 AM

Are you saying that these episodes were not complete prior to the beginning of the strike? I thought that all of Hollywood pretty much went into shutdown, including filming and editing, during the strike. So if that's the case, how is it that him stepping back as showrunner during the strike had any effect on whether he completed the editing and completion? I would think that the eps that we're seeing now were all complete prior to the strike.

They were written prior to the strike. All completed scripts were filmed, if the actors crossed the picket lines. It took two to three weeks after the strike began for Hollywood to totally shut down.

Producers who were writers walked out right away, but producers that were not also writers stayed on the job to finish what episodes they could.

hanumang

03-06-2008, 11:41 AM

Are you saying that these episodes were not complete prior to the beginning of the strike? I thought that all of Hollywood pretty much went into shutdown, including filming and editing, during the strike. So if that's the case, how is it that him stepping back as showrunner during the strike had any effect on whether he completed the editing and completion? I would think that the eps that we're seeing now were all complete prior to the strike.

Though this has been answered for the business as a whole by Vendikarr, Josh Friedman addresses this specifically for T:SCC in his Producer's Blog (http://sarahconnor.wetpaint.com/page/Producer%27s+Blog), in the We're Back! entry on Feb 11th.

Or am I not understanding your exact question?

(And yeah, that is his official blog - it's what's linked to from Fox.com)

DevdogAZ

03-06-2008, 07:10 PM

Though this has been answered for the business as a whole by Vendikarr, Josh Friedman addresses this specifically for T:SCC in his Producer's Blog (http://sarahconnor.wetpaint.com/page/Producer%27s+Blog), in the We're Back! entry on Feb 11th.

Or am I not understanding your exact question?

(And yeah, that is his official blog - it's what's linked to from Fox.com)
Thanks for posting that. I was under the impression that pretty much everyone in Hollywood walked off in solidarity with the writers, so that no editing or filming or makeup or anything else was able to be done during the strike. I guess I was wrong.

Jeff_in_Bklyn

03-08-2008, 10:18 AM

Any show that introduces the great Johnny Cash to the young'uns gets a thumbs up in my book.

robpickles

03-08-2008, 03:37 PM

If someone killed little Kyle, what would have happened? Would John disappear and cease to exist?

No....

Deja Vu! Didn't I post the answer to this already? Check last episodes thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6034025#post6034025).

Rob :)

heySkippy

03-08-2008, 03:59 PM

Deja Vu! Didn't I post the answer to this already? Check last episodes thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6034025#post6034025).

Rob :)

If you go back and edit your post in that thread, would this post cease to exist?

Turtleboy

03-08-2008, 04:30 PM

There is no fate but what you make.

robpickles

03-08-2008, 05:34 PM

If you go back and edit your post in that thread, would this post cease to exist?

No... then I would be the only one remembering this post and everyone else would benefit from my knowledge of the alternate postline! :D

That would make me look like the smartest person in the world. LOL

Rob :)

Hunter Green

03-14-2008, 11:52 AM

Well what kind of tech advacnes are we talking about? The speed of CPUs, the storage capacities of hard drives, slightly different MB technology - not that much of a change that he couldn't recognize what things were.
The big changes would be in software and online services, not hardware. Generally, hardware changes mostly linearly, while software often veers in new directions made possible by the improvements in hardware.

I think we have to assume John's spent some of his downtime (off-camera time, between episodes and stuff) getting up to speed on tech.

danterner

03-14-2008, 02:08 PM

The big changes would be in software and online services, not hardware. Generally, hardware changes mostly linearly, while software iften veers in new directions made possible by the improvements in hardware.

I think we have to assume John's spent some of his downtime (off-camera time, between episodes and stuff) getting up to speed on tech.

Agreed. And that's a good point, re: hardware vs. software.

robpickles

03-14-2008, 09:45 PM

The big changes would be in software and online services, not hardware. Generally, hardware changes mostly linearly, while software iften veers in new directions made possible by the improvements in hardware.

I think we have to assume John's spent some of his downtime (off-camera time, between episodes and stuff) getting up to speed on tech.

Yeah...someone who is a "genius" could pick up new software and user interfaces in no time. With enough time and hands on experience, anyone can get to know how to work a program.

Rob :)

Anubys

03-17-2008, 09:55 AM