mbennett
02-24-2008, 07:13 PM
Series 2 standalone Tivo on Wired home network.
Windows XP Pro with Service Packs.
Latest Tivo and Tivo Desktop software.
Wired network.
The failure mode is that Tivo Desktop (both newest and older versions) see my Tivo. They start downloading the "Now Playing" list, but fail partway through. "failed getting data from Tivo..." etc.
In the latest TivoDesktop version it says:
"There was an error while attempting to retrieve data from the selected DVR.
Tivo Desktop is unable to contact the DVR. This could be due to network problems... etc etc etc."
This is not correct. They ARE able to see each other, for a while. Then presumably it his one "glitch" and abandons the entire transfer of the show titles.
Most of the problems folks talk about seem to deal with Wireless config. But my setup is even simpler, with a wired network using simple DHCP.
Both the PC and Tivo are clearly on the network, both are able to see each other and the outside world, and they START THE TRANSFER. It always fails after it reports fetching Now Playing data for 41 shows or 91 shows, or somewhere in that range.
I've been dealing with Tech Support on this, but Tier 2 has given up on me; they say Tier 3 may call me back.
I have tried a bunch of things, none of them have made any difference. To me, this seems like a problem with Tivo's software, not my network. Read on!
I've been through all the resets, power cycling, version checking, etc.
And after they said maybe my network was too complicated, I bought a network cross over cable to directly connect them to each other, and verified they were both on the auto 169 network and could see each other. EXACT SAME failure mode.
The network topology seems to make NO DIFFERENCE in the failure - you can't get more direct than a direct connect (with the 169 auto addressing verified to be working).
Further, I did get one newer computer to get the Now Playing list ONCE. It failed too, time and time again, at different numbers of fetched titles, but ONE TIME it managed to randomly get the whole list. And it's on the same network. But I can't use this machine on a regular basis.
The machine I want it to work on is maybe 2 years old, so it's a tad slower.
Stuff I've tried:
* Verified Tivo.com account, with DVR enabled, correct Media Access Key, etc.
* Verified Tivo and Tivo desktop versions; also tried older version for kicks.
* Full power cycle of Tivo, including removing network cable (per support), then wait 24 hours
* Reset of Tivo (with onscreen menus), and wait another 24 hours
* Supported Ethernet USB dongle, has worked for 2 years
* Tried replacing USB cable, also replaced network cable
* No firewall in the inside network, and disabled on Windows PCs
* Shutdown other non-essential processes on PC
* Upped the priorities on Tivo processes
* Two different network hookups (one with 3 hubs/switches, another with a straight crossover hookup, VERIFIED working with 169 auto addresses on both ends)
* Like I said, it did work ONCE on one faster machine, but I can't use that long term.
* Etc etc etc etc
None of this has made ANY DIFFERENCE.
They DO see each other, and they DO START THE Now Playing transfer. But it aborts part way through, like at title 41 or 91.
Tivo "lameness" factors?
1: I feel like Tivo is using network topology as an "excuse" - yes I understand about the need for "supported" systems, I've worked in Tech Support myself, but in this case it makes no difference.
And this goes further. One Tivo Support person told me they only "support" "hubs", and that they suggested Linksys hubs. Another guy said they only support "routers", and not "hubs".
They only way to appease them I guess would be to buy a home network router for this one experiment. But I already went out and bought a long ethernet cable and cross over adapter; I guarantee that blowing another $70 for a router would not make any difference.
2: I suspect there's like one "glitch" that happens, that aborts the entire process. TCP/IP supports retransmission of packets, etc. So even if you dropped a packet, you should be able to recover. I'm guessing the "glitch" is some buffer related thing higher in the software that it can't recover from, but it's lame to make software so fragile. Any network application is going to get lost packets at times, it's to be expected. The OS will usually handle that for you automatically; if it's low level code, then that code needs to be prepared for this. Even my Treo 700p, a handheld cell phone, recovers from spotty network coverage on the Verizon network.
Can't they just put a "retry" or something in the code?
Is it possible they are using UDP instead of TCP? Even then, I've seen UDP do a decent job on a closed wired low traffic network.
3: If TD would just pickup where it left off, and grab the next batch of show titles, that'd be OK. But it drops ALL data it has received. This is the most maddening part of the whole process.
Sorry for the length of this. There's a lot of history, and a lot of pushing back on me from Tivo, so I want to make sure that I cover all the things that I've tried.
A final question:
What is the largest Now Playing List (number of entries) that folks have ever got to transfer over? Like 100 shows? 200 shows? etc?
Thanks,
Mark
Windows XP Pro with Service Packs.
Latest Tivo and Tivo Desktop software.
Wired network.
The failure mode is that Tivo Desktop (both newest and older versions) see my Tivo. They start downloading the "Now Playing" list, but fail partway through. "failed getting data from Tivo..." etc.
In the latest TivoDesktop version it says:
"There was an error while attempting to retrieve data from the selected DVR.
Tivo Desktop is unable to contact the DVR. This could be due to network problems... etc etc etc."
This is not correct. They ARE able to see each other, for a while. Then presumably it his one "glitch" and abandons the entire transfer of the show titles.
Most of the problems folks talk about seem to deal with Wireless config. But my setup is even simpler, with a wired network using simple DHCP.
Both the PC and Tivo are clearly on the network, both are able to see each other and the outside world, and they START THE TRANSFER. It always fails after it reports fetching Now Playing data for 41 shows or 91 shows, or somewhere in that range.
I've been dealing with Tech Support on this, but Tier 2 has given up on me; they say Tier 3 may call me back.
I have tried a bunch of things, none of them have made any difference. To me, this seems like a problem with Tivo's software, not my network. Read on!
I've been through all the resets, power cycling, version checking, etc.
And after they said maybe my network was too complicated, I bought a network cross over cable to directly connect them to each other, and verified they were both on the auto 169 network and could see each other. EXACT SAME failure mode.
The network topology seems to make NO DIFFERENCE in the failure - you can't get more direct than a direct connect (with the 169 auto addressing verified to be working).
Further, I did get one newer computer to get the Now Playing list ONCE. It failed too, time and time again, at different numbers of fetched titles, but ONE TIME it managed to randomly get the whole list. And it's on the same network. But I can't use this machine on a regular basis.
The machine I want it to work on is maybe 2 years old, so it's a tad slower.
Stuff I've tried:
* Verified Tivo.com account, with DVR enabled, correct Media Access Key, etc.
* Verified Tivo and Tivo desktop versions; also tried older version for kicks.
* Full power cycle of Tivo, including removing network cable (per support), then wait 24 hours
* Reset of Tivo (with onscreen menus), and wait another 24 hours
* Supported Ethernet USB dongle, has worked for 2 years
* Tried replacing USB cable, also replaced network cable
* No firewall in the inside network, and disabled on Windows PCs
* Shutdown other non-essential processes on PC
* Upped the priorities on Tivo processes
* Two different network hookups (one with 3 hubs/switches, another with a straight crossover hookup, VERIFIED working with 169 auto addresses on both ends)
* Like I said, it did work ONCE on one faster machine, but I can't use that long term.
* Etc etc etc etc
None of this has made ANY DIFFERENCE.
They DO see each other, and they DO START THE Now Playing transfer. But it aborts part way through, like at title 41 or 91.
Tivo "lameness" factors?
1: I feel like Tivo is using network topology as an "excuse" - yes I understand about the need for "supported" systems, I've worked in Tech Support myself, but in this case it makes no difference.
And this goes further. One Tivo Support person told me they only "support" "hubs", and that they suggested Linksys hubs. Another guy said they only support "routers", and not "hubs".
They only way to appease them I guess would be to buy a home network router for this one experiment. But I already went out and bought a long ethernet cable and cross over adapter; I guarantee that blowing another $70 for a router would not make any difference.
2: I suspect there's like one "glitch" that happens, that aborts the entire process. TCP/IP supports retransmission of packets, etc. So even if you dropped a packet, you should be able to recover. I'm guessing the "glitch" is some buffer related thing higher in the software that it can't recover from, but it's lame to make software so fragile. Any network application is going to get lost packets at times, it's to be expected. The OS will usually handle that for you automatically; if it's low level code, then that code needs to be prepared for this. Even my Treo 700p, a handheld cell phone, recovers from spotty network coverage on the Verizon network.
Can't they just put a "retry" or something in the code?
Is it possible they are using UDP instead of TCP? Even then, I've seen UDP do a decent job on a closed wired low traffic network.
3: If TD would just pickup where it left off, and grab the next batch of show titles, that'd be OK. But it drops ALL data it has received. This is the most maddening part of the whole process.
Sorry for the length of this. There's a lot of history, and a lot of pushing back on me from Tivo, so I want to make sure that I cover all the things that I've tried.
A final question:
What is the largest Now Playing List (number of entries) that folks have ever got to transfer over? Like 100 shows? 200 shows? etc?
Thanks,
Mark