Today I canceled DirecTV... No more TiVo

[designr]

Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

Yes, the AT&T DVR sucks compared to TiVo. Yes, there's only 1 HD stream at a time (for now). But, overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want. I have U-verse Max internet (10down/1.5up) - I can download TV and movies to my Mac really fast. And, in theory, I can add TiVo.

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D

Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?

[TonyTheTiger]

Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

Yes, the AT&T DVR sucks compared to TiVo. Yes, there's only 1 HD stream at a time (for now). But, overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want. I have U-verse Max internet (10down/1.5up) - I can download TV and movies to my Mac really fast. And, in theory, I can add TiVo.

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D

Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?

Yes. I'm sure you'd get a D* CSR to promise to pass your request along. And you'd have about the same chance of getting it fulfilled!

Promises like that cost nothing.

[slydog75]

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D


LOL, she hung up the phone, called her boyfriend for 20 minutes, then called you back with a line of BS.

[jimb726]

Assuming that you left because of no TiVo, why would you go somewhere else that has no TiVo?? And then on top of that, has the limitations? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I could see it if functionally they were the same systems, but it sure seems like you took a couple of steps back.

[bootsy]

Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

Yes, the AT&T DVR sucks compared to TiVo. Yes, there's only 1 HD stream at a time (for now). But, overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want. I have U-verse Max internet (10down/1.5up) - I can download TV and movies to my Mac really fast. And, in theory, I can add TiVo.

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D

Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?



See Ya....:D

[shibby191]

Assuming that you left because of no TiVo, why would you go somewhere else that has no TiVo?? And then on top of that, has the limitations? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I could see it if functionally they were the same systems, but it sure seems like you took a couple of steps back.

I was about to post the same thing. I'm all about people making the move to something better for them but to leave DirecTV because of no Tivo to another provider...that has no Tivo option seems a little strange. Unless it's just for spite and doing things for spite in big business doesn't really do much but hey, vote with your dollars they always say.

And only 1 HD stream? Ouch. I record 3 or 4 HD channels at once all the time. :eek: There is no way I could live with that. I'd rather go with Charter at that point.

But hey, if he's happy then that is all that matters. Good luck is the best response.

[RS4]

Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

Yes, the AT&T DVR sucks compared to TiVo. Yes, there's only 1 HD stream at a time (for now). But, overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want. I have U-verse Max internet (10down/1.5up) - I can download TV and movies to my Mac really fast. And, in theory, I can add TiVo.

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D

Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?

I clicked on the Search button at the top of the page and entered U-verse. There is also a link (I think I saw it there) in one of the threads to the U-verse users group forums.

Good luck with U-verse. I hope you enjoy it. There are some threads here and on the U-verse users forum of folks getting Tivos to work, so it would seem you stand a better chance of getting a new Tivo to work with U-verse than with Direct. :)

It seems that some of the responders have gotten so used to the poor service from Direct that they feel other companies are no better:o

[magnus]

If you live near the OTA towers... you might just try digital OTA and a SA Tivo. That's what I'm using.... no commitments... no bills.... and better reception than D*.


Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

Yes, the AT&T DVR sucks compared to TiVo. Yes, there's only 1 HD stream at a time (for now). But, overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want. I have U-verse Max internet (10down/1.5up) - I can download TV and movies to my Mac really fast. And, in theory, I can add TiVo.

Now, here's the kicker. I mentioned that I preferred TiVo. So an AT&T CSR went to the AT&T engineers and researched TiVo compatibility. She then called me back with a general outline of what it would take to get a TiVo working with U-verse. She then promised to pass along my request for full TiVo support. :D

Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?

[TyroneShoes]

...Now I ask you. Would D*TV do that?

Probably not.

Seems like a good move to me. Like everyone else at DTV you're eventually forced to shelve your Tivos, so rather than move to the HD DVR+ that many folks seem to like as much or even better than Tivo (so far I'm only in the "almost as good as Tivo" camp) you go to a provider with a single HD stream and a DVR you already abhor.

That sounds like a pretty even trade-off for an empty promise of what they might do in next year or two (Not!), that is if you're really, really lucky . I guess you need at least that one little glimmer of faint hope to light up the cold dark corner you seem to have painted yourself into.

Seriously, good luck with that.

[parzec]

Assuming that you left because of no TiVo, why would you go somewhere else that has no TiVo?? And then on top of that, has the limitations? Seems like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I could see it if functionally they were the same systems, but it sure seems like you took a couple of steps back.

The reason is obvious: He would have to sign a 2 year contract with D* to get more HD channels than the HR10 can receive. This way, he can switch to cable, get one of their DVR's for next to nothing and increase the number of HD channels he can watch without being strapped down by an oppresive and one-sided contract. He can always switch back to D* at no cost if he doesn't like his experience with cable. With DirecTV, switching back to cable would result in a hefty financial penalty which limits his options. Some people, like the OP, value their freedom.

[codespy]

Does U-verse charge for each DVR like cable does, or is it a one time charge unlimited like DTV?

Also, for me, My HR10's will always be valuable as long as OTA's stay mpeg2. And I get 3 markets where I am at. Having TiVo service WITHOUT having to pay any DVR service FEES (for now), what more could I ask for? Sure I could go with a SA, but what are the monthly fees to TiVo up to now? $12, $15, or $18 bucks a month? Right now I don't pay a dime.

I got a couple HR20's to get the new channels in Hi-def when needed, but my HR10's will remain here as long as I can keep them working.

[RS4]

Does U-verse charge for each DVR like cable does, or is it a one time charge unlimited like DTV?

Also, for me, My HR10's will always be valuable as long as OTA's stay mpeg2. And I get 3 markets where I am at. Having TiVo service WITHOUT having to pay any DVR service FEES (for now), what more could I ask for? Sure I could go with a SA, but what are the monthly fees to TiVo up to now? $12, $15, or $18 bucks a month? Right now I don't pay a dime.

I got a couple HR20's to get the new channels in Hi-def when needed, but my HR10's will remain here as long as I can keep them working.

My monthly pricing for Tivo and Comcast together is slightly less than I was paying Direct. Plus I get more movie channels and more HD channels than I was getting on my HR10-250. In addition, the SD channels are superior in quality compared to Direct. And I'm on month to month, so I don't have to wait 2 years if the market changes. Of course I did have to buy the 2 Tivo HDs up front ($520), but I don't mind.

I was surprised that the combination of pricing was actually lower than Direct. I guess I'd always assumed it would be a lot more. Maybe that's the case in other areas.

[jimb726]

The reason is obvious: He would have to sign a 2 year contract with D* to get more HD channels than the HR10 can receive. This way, he can switch to cable, get one of their DVR's for next to nothing and increase the number of HD channels he can watch without being strapped down by an oppresive and one-sided contract. He can always switch back to D* at no cost if he doesn't like his experience with cable. With DirecTV, switching back to cable would result in a hefty financial penalty which limits his options. Some people, like the OP, value their freedom.

Maybe if you go back and read his post you will see that he doesnt mention the commitment being the problem, it was the lack of a TiVo unit. Now he says he has a DVR that sucks but he does not have a contract. He never said the reason for leaving was because of the commitment requirment. My question simply was, if TiVo was the reason for his departure, why in the world go to another DVR that is even less capable than the HR-2X, and by his own words is a terrible DVR. At least RS4 and the others that left DirecTv due to a lack of a TiVo went somewhere that they can use a TiVo. That makes sense to me, regardless of commitments. Vote with your wallet.

[parzec]

Maybe if you go back and read his post you will see that he doesnt mention the commitment being the problem, it was the lack of a TiVo unit. Now he says he has a DVR that sucks but he does not have a contract. He never said the reason for leaving was because of the commitment requirment. My question simply was, if TiVo was the reason for his departure, why in the world go to another DVR that is even less capable than the HR-2X, and by his own words is a terrible DVR. At least RS4 and the others that left DirecTv due to a lack of a TiVo went somewhere that they can use a TiVo. That makes sense to me, regardless of commitments. Vote with your wallet.

Hmm - I think you need to re-read his post.

But overall, I'm a much happier person. I have no contract - I can switch any time I want.

I think his point was that his Tivo could not get the new HD programs, so while he chose D* because of Tivo initially, their discontinuation of support of the HR10 with regard to HD programming caused him to look elsewhere for more content. So his choce was between two non-Tivos (D* or Cable) if he wanted more content. Given the choice, I would personally choose the option that gave me the ability to sample the product without committment first, and it seems logical that might be the reasoning of the OP.

[jimb726]

Hmm - I think you need to re-read his post.



I think his point was that his Tivo could not get the new HD programs, so while he chose D* because of Tivo initially, their discontinuation of support of the HR10 with regard to HD programming caused him to look elsewhere for more content. So his choce was between two non-Tivos (D* or Cable) if he wanted more content. Given the choice, I would personally choose the option that gave me the ability to sample the product without committment first, and it seems logical that might be the reasoning of the OP.

Thats a whole lot of assumption.

[parzec]

Thats a whole lot of assumption.

Not really, the OP stated quite clearly:

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay.

By saying his Tivo is being "strangled to death" he is using a metaphore to illustrate that his HD-DirecTV will be losing the HD channels it initially received, and that it will not be getting the new HD channels that are being introduced.

[bzo]

I was in a similar situation and also decided to cancel. The loss of HD I'm getting on the Tivo was a big minus, but it was a combination of negative factors that pushed me over the fence.

Positive:
Free upgrade to HR20

Negatives:
Switching away from Tivo
2 year commitment to upgrade DVR
New $10 monthly fee to access HD, where it was free for locals before
Upcoming price increase

I decided to try OTA TIVO SA for a while. If that's not enough programming, I could get cable, which is now cheaper for me than DTV for the channels I want. Also going back to DTV is an option, as the retention CSR convinced me to put my account on suspension before making cancellation final.

[lostman72]

I don't see how he can use Tivo with U-verse? He would not be able to watch HD with Tivo? U-verse is fiber to the node and your boxes tells the node what channel you want to watch. Because the cable card tivo needs all channels over the coax to it. U-verse requests one channel at a time per set top box. Good luck

[slocko]

on one of my tvs i only record OTA stuff on my hr10. can i cancel that receiver and keep recording ota?

[designr]

No. Really. All this controversy :eek:

1. Yes. Series 1 and Series 2 SA Tivos work with U-verse. The setup can be a little funky. Series 3 SA TiVos don't work (so, no HD)... but, a lot of U-verse users are lobbying TiVo and AT&T - and, it sounds like somebody is a least listening (unlike D*).

2. One AT&T DVR (records 4 channels at once) is free. Two AT&T Set top boxes are free. No contract, no rental, no fees, no nothing (but they're still AT&T boxes so you better not bust 'em open - though, I've heard...).

3. So far, my experience has been that SD channels are cleaner, sharper, have better color and have less video artifacts than D* (D* is still live for 2 more days and I have the same SPs to compare). And now I have more of the channels I'd be likely to watch. Then again, I haven't seen the HR20 - but I hear it's buggy.

4. So far, my experience has been that HD channels are cleaner, sharper, have better color and have less video artifacts than D* (D* is still live for 2 more days and I have the same SPs to compare). And now I have more of the HD channels I'd be likely to watch. Then again, I haven't seen the HR20 - but I hear it's buggy.

Yes, only one HD stream can be viewed/recorded at a time NOW. The current single copper pair has enough bandwidth for at least 2 HD streams, maybe more. It just hasn't been enabled (it's promised for 2008). [ If I recall correctly, the tech said each copper pair gets about 56 mbs. Each HD stream is around 11 mbs. Each SD stream is 5 or 6 mbs. Don't quote me on that. ]

Pair-bonding (more than one copper pair per household) is on the roadmap. My house has 6 pairs from the fiber node - I'm using 1 pair.

Whole home viewing (using the set top boxes to watch recorded shows streamed from the DVR over CAT-5e) is promised for this year.

10 mbs downstream :D
1.5 mbs upstream :p

All for less than what I was paying for D* plus my old 3 mbs DSL.

And, I can walk away free and clear anytime I want - that makes AT&T VERY interested in knowing what I like and what will keep me a happy subscriber.

Now, if I renewed D*, I'd be spending all my time trying to keep my aging TiVos alive with duct tape and bailing wire. The TiVos would eventually die and I'd be stuck with a 2 year contract and an HR20.

Yeah, what that guy said..... It's the most logical choice: It gives me a workable, potentially likable solution, that fits my needs for the time being. And, leaves my options wide open. So what if I have to live with a sucky DVR for a few months to see what pans out. I'll survive.

Anyhow, all you guys what dissed me. You're all nuts. LMAO. :D

OK. Let round 2 of the controversy begin...

[designr]

I guess you need at least that one little glimmer of faint hope to light up the cold dark corner you seem to have painted yourself into.

Seriously, good luck with that.What dark corner? All I see is light... EVERYWHERE... :p

[TyroneShoes]

What dark corner? All I see is light... EVERYWHERE... :p

Good for you. Now just keep telling yourself that.

(BTW, if you continue to point that tongue at me you'd better be prepared to use it :D)

Just as a point of information, many folks do not incur any extension of their DTV "contract" at all, even if DTV gives them a HR2x or multiple HR2x's for free. If you don't get that deal, you were apparently just unlucky enough to call the wrong CSR on the wrong day while presenting the wrong attitude towards them.

Also, getting HD channels other than directly OTA always came with a price, and always will. The recategorization of the DTV fees is academic, not considered a new fee or some new gouging technique. We paid it before just like we pay it now. The only real difference is before we got up to 9 channels, while now we get upwards of 90 or more for the same fee.

The "freedom" of not having a contract seems to be no big advantage. Like anything else, it's a trade-off, and in most cases it's worth it for the services rendered, and those who refuse it out of spite typically end up with a worse deal, possibly in cost, content, HD availability, and PVR reliability. It's not as if someone under contract will just one day decide "You know? I'm tired of television and I'm not going to watch it (or pay for it) anymore".

Somewhat sadly, we all need that drug and none of us are even considering kicking that habit. That would be about as practical as me deciding that if gasoline hits $3.50 that I'm just going to stop driving. IOW, a contract is not a burden whatsoever if you will be continuing to watch TV anyway. It's a reasonable way for the company to ensure that subsidizing the cost of the PVR, dish, and installation will eventually be worth their while some day. Their version of a security blanket.

Of course all freedom comes at a price, but limiting HD choices, downgrading my PVRs, and reducing my HD streams from 6 to 1 is not a price I'm even willing to discuss.

[sjberra]

Does U-verse charge for each DVR like cable does, or is it a one time charge unlimited like DTV?

Also, for me, My HR10's will always be valuable as long as OTA's stay mpeg2. And I get 3 markets where I am at. Having TiVo service WITHOUT having to pay any DVR service FEES (for now), what more could I ask for? Sure I could go with a SA, but what are the monthly fees to TiVo up to now? $12, $15, or $18 bucks a month? Right now I don't pay a dime.

I got a couple HR20's to get the new channels in Hi-def when needed, but my HR10's will remain here as long as I can keep them working.

No they don't, but then you are only allowed 1 DVR, you get a total of 4 feeds for the sets. It can be 1 HD/DVR and 3 SD's

[blips]

If you don't get that deal, you were apparently just unlucky enough to call the wrong CSR on the wrong day while presenting the wrong attitude towards them.

What fun is it dealing with a company that your price depends on whether they took their Midol or not that day?:rolleyes:

[lostman72]

You can lobby all you want. And I wish you the best. I have noting bad to say about u-verse except that I am not a ATT fan. U-verse only has about 700,000 subs I can't see Tivo making a box for a small amount of subs. As you know if Tivo did make a box, U-verse would charge extra and so only 10% of there sub might be willing to pay that? I have a friends that works for ATT and he did tell me PQ is very good on there none HD channels . So I agree with you on that. And the same guy still rather have Directv with the HR20 for now.

[jimb726]

Not really, the OP stated quite clearly:



By saying his Tivo is being "strangled to death" he is using a metaphore to illustrate that his HD-DirecTV will be losing the HD channels it initially received, and that it will not be getting the new HD channels that are being introduced.

I dont dispute that, as a matter of fact I understand that, my point was he didnt mention that the commitment had anything to do with his decision. I respect that he cose to leave because they were no suppoting the platform that he chooses. I just found it odd that after making that choice, he proceeded to go to a carrier that in his own words has a DVR that sucked.

[bzo]

Just as a point of information, many folks do not incur any extension of their DTV "contract" at all, even if DTV gives them a HR2x or multiple HR2x's for free. If you don't get that deal, you were apparently just unlucky enough to call the wrong CSR on the wrong day while presenting the wrong attitude towards them.


I believe that is the exception rather than the rule. Most people I have heard of who upgraded had to extend their contract. And just because the CSR doesn't mention it, doesn't mean the contract hasn't been extended. In my case, I get an auto upgrade because I'm losing my LA HD feeds, so there was no lobbying needed to get the free upgrade. In fact they emailed and called me numerous times to let me know. But even though they were willing to offer me hundreds of dollars in incentives to get me to stay, the retention CSR said a 2 year commitment was required if I upgraded my box and dish.


Also, getting HD channels other than directly OTA always came with a price, and always will. The recategorization of the DTV fees is academic, not considered a new fee or some new gouging technique. We paid it before just like we pay it now. The only real difference is before we got up to 9 channels, while now we get upwards of 90 or more for the same fee.


That's not true. I've been getting free HD on my locals for years. And I also got the HD channels for HBO and Showtime at no extra charge as well. It's only with the new programming packages and new HD receivers that the $10 HD fee is now mandatory. Yes, you do get a bunch more HD channels for that $10, but the option to have some free base HD programming is gone.


The "freedom" of not having a contract seems to be no big advantage. Like anything else, it's a trade-off, and in most cases it's worth it for the services rendered, and those who refuse it out of spite typically end up with a worse deal, possibly in cost, content, HD availability, and PVR reliability. It's not as if someone under contract will just one day decide "You know? I'm tired of television and I'm not going to watch it (or pay for it) anymore".


That makes no sense at all to me, as the contract appears to be completely one sided on their side and has no benefit to the customer. It ties the customer down, but it doesn't restrict what DTV can do - including raising prices, or dropping channels. People aren't trying to avoid a contract because they might decide one day to stop watching TV, but because one could get unsatisfied with the service or there might be a better alternative.

[Texceo]

My monthly pricing for Tivo and Comcast together is slightly less than I was paying Direct. Plus I get more movie channels and more HD channels than I was getting on my HR10-250. In addition, the SD channels are superior in quality compared to Direct. And I'm on month to month, so I don't have to wait 2 years if the market changes. Of course I did have to buy the 2 Tivo HDs up front ($520), but I don't mind.

I was surprised that the combination of pricing was actually lower than Direct. I guess I'd always assumed it would be a lot more. Maybe that's the case in other areas.


What is your Monthly costs and what are you getting for that cost?

[TonyTheTiger]

on one of my tvs i only record OTA stuff on my hr10. can i cancel that receiver and keep recording ota?

Receive OTA, yes. Record, no. The DVR functions require a subscription to D*.

[codespy]

No they don't, but then you are only allowed 1 DVR, you get a total of 4 feeds for the sets. It can be 1 HD/DVR and 3 SD's

Hmmm...that seems restrictive at least for our household...Around here though, Time Warner is the cable majority, and NFL network and Big Ten network are not available with them, but are on AT&T.

U-verse only has about 700,000 subs I can't see Tivo making a box for a small amount of subs.

I've been inspecting a lot of services for the U-verse pedastal boxes in our area, at least 1 every two weeks, so that number will be steadily rising. Many are ditching TW for AT&T.

[TyroneShoes]

I believe that is the exception rather than the rule...And just because the CSR doesn't mention it, doesn't mean the contract hasn't been extended...the contract appears to be completely one sided on their side and has no benefit to the customer...

I don't think anyone challenged your right to believe something regardless of any real proof. Under those same conditions, I believe you are wrong. Just because the CSR doesn't mention it also doesn't mean it HAS been extended. In my case, I asked specifically when my contract would be extended to and was told it would not be extended at all. Maybe I and others I've discussed this with were just lucky, and you weren't. We'll never know.

I understand your arguments leading you to consider the agreement one-sided, but what you may overlook is that both sides have to give a little in any agreement, and compromise is at the heart of every contract. What DTV is doing for you is subsidizing a huge expense. In return, they simply ask you to stick around for awhile.

The actual cost of providing a dish, installation, and PVR can be well over $1000 out of pocket for them. Margins on reselling sat channels are slimmer than you may think, and figures I've seen on the subject reveal that it takes them something on the order of 42 months to break even.

I then view a 24-month contract as a HUGE benefit to the consumer. Of course I don't want to pay if I don't have to or be obligated if I don't have to, but I do have to pay someone if I want service, and DTV customers are asked to agree to a certain level of obligation. That's sound business and should be expected. On the other hand, no one's holding a gun to your head, and you're free to let that doorknob hit you in the ass.

If they had to sell the HD DVR as a 3rd-party equipment vendor and were not expecting to recoup the cost by charging you for content or DVR service over time, the retail price for that unit would probably be at least $1000. This is why Tivo HD DVRs retail at $750 and why they also have a monthly fee of 12-20 bucks a month.

It's the cell phone business model all over again. Get a phone for free with a service contract, or buy it outright for 300 bucks. Your choice. All receivers and PVRs provided by sat and cable vendors ever in history are provided as subsidized, which has the unfortunate side-effect of driving down the customer's perceived value of the hardware to well below the actual cost. No one ever makes a profit selling a full-blown HD PVR outright with no strings for $299, which is why you can't go into BB or CC and buy one, without also buying service. On the contrary, that is a prescription for a fast track to bankruptcy.

Bottom line, the lists of advantages of going away from DTV listed in this thread seem a little hollow and hopeful, as if folks are vainly trying to convince themselves it's a good idea using weak arguments, when if you weigh the issue calmly and honestly, leaving probably really isn't that good of an idea. I haven't heard of a genuine smokin' deal yet. If you want the best HD selection and the best PVR that works with it, DTV seems awfully hard to beat. A combination of HD DVR and HR10 is even harder to beat.

[bzo]

I don't think anyone challenged your right to believe something regardless of any real proof.

I didn't realize I was campaigning for that right :rolleyes:. But I will grant you that neither of us has any definitive proof about commitments on HDDVR upgrades.

While I may be leaving DTV, temporarily or permanently, I bear no ill will towards them. They have delivered the service expected of them. However at the end of the day, it's their job to make the most profit, and it's my responsibility to get the best deal for myself. It shouldn't be the concern of me or anyone else what it cost DTV to run their service or justify why they need to lock you in. One can only compare it to the alternatives. It works for some and not for others, what more is there to say? <shrug>

[magnus]

The agreement is one-sided... there is no mistaking that. $300 for non-returned cards.... $200 for non-returned DVRs.... increases each and every year.... and initial expenditures for leased equipment.


If you do not return equipment, DIRECTV may charge a fee of up to $55 per standard receiver, $200 per DVR, $240 per HD receiver and/or $470 per HD DVR.


(2) Access Card Replacement Fee: If you do not return the Access Card when requested to do so, or if we have to replace the Access Card, we may charge you a replacement fee of up to $300.00.

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P400042



I understand your arguments leading you to consider the agreement one-sided, but what you may overlook is that both sides have to give a little in any agreement, and compromise is at the heart of every contract.


If they are so nice in subsidizing everyone.... then why not put the EXACT amount of time you have left on the commitment on the bill. I'll tell you why.... they don't want you to know when you may leave... and no longer have to worry about their precious subsidy.


What DTV is doing for you is subsidizing a huge expense. In return, they simply ask you to stick around for awhile.

[sjberra]

Hmmm...that seems restrictive at least for our household...Around here though, Time Warner is the cable majority, and NFL network and Big Ten network are not available with them, but are on AT&T.



I've been inspecting a lot of services for the U-verse pedastal boxes in our area, at least 1 every two weeks, so that number will be steadily rising. Many are ditching TW for AT&T.

Very restrictive, funny thing over in the Uverse forums they have labeled me an "elitiest" because I was putting down this same fact. 4 feeds will not make it here plain and simple.

[shibby191]

What's funny is that AT&T *just* announced 2 days ago they would be bringing Uverse to our city. Talk about timing.

For me only 1 HD stream is just a non starter. Can't even think about anything else. I have 5 right now and could possibly live with just 3 but since 95%+ everything we record and watch is in HD it's just not happening. And by the way, they promise to up that to 2 streams in 2008. They also promised to do that by end of 2006 and again end of 2007 so we'll see if they actually make good on it.

I will check out the high speed Internet though cause you can actually get it "naked" without phone service (which I don't need with Vonage for $15 a month).

But here is the kicker on commitments: All over the AT&T terms of service web pages are "12-month term required. Early termination fee applies.". Hmmmmmm, AT&T has commitments too I see. Now granted you can get no commitment plans but if you want the best price and deals you have to commit.

So I guess DirecTV gets a demerit for not allowing at least a higher priced option for no commitment. Oh that's right, they do actually. You can buy the HR21 outright for $500 if you don't want a commitment. Of course you'll end up spending more over 2 years doing that then leasing but if you are that afraid of commitment the option is there.

Having said all that there is no universal right or wrong answer. The only right answer is what is best for you personally.

[RS4]

What is your Monthly costs and what are you getting for that cost?

I get a $15.00 discount off of the combination of broadband and video, plus my internet increased in speed from 6 to 8 meg. So, the costs are $91 for the video and Tivo charges at list price minus the discount = $76 vs $80 for the Direct. The package we got from Direct included the 5 or 7 HD channels plus OTA - no sports or movies.

As for the channels, I get all of the locals in HD including the sub-channels they broadcast - not just the main locals that Direct is showing. I also get 15 additional plus 3 sports channels. In addition, we get the Encore movie channels which we did not get with Direct. (My guess is that we watch 1 or 2 movies a week from that service.) The other big difference for us is that quality of the SD channels are significantly better.

The net for us is that we could stay with the Tivos that I love, plus increase our HD channels by about 3 times. I work from home so having the higher speed internet is also a nice benefit.

I also just found out that the telephone service would only cost $5 more per month. I think that might be the first-year price. But, I'm going to check out more about the offer.

[DouglasPHill]

I did the same thing. (No love of Direct)

[sjberra]

What's funny is that AT&T *just* announced 2 days ago they would be bringing Uverse to our city. Talk about timing.

For me only 1 HD stream is just a non starter. Can't even think about anything else. I have 5 right now and could possibly live with just 3 but since 95%+ everything we record and watch is in HD it's just not happening. And by the way, they promise to up that to 2 streams in 2008. They also promised to do that by end of 2006 and again end of 2007 so we'll see if they actually make good on it.

I will check out the high speed Internet though cause you can actually get it "naked" without phone service (which I don't need with Vonage for $15 a month).

But here is the kicker on commitments: All over the AT&T terms of service web pages are "12-month term required. Early termination fee applies.". Hmmmmmm, AT&T has commitments too I see. Now granted you can get no commitment plans but if you want the best price and deals you have to commit.

So I guess DirecTV gets a demerit for not allowing at least a higher priced option for no commitment. Oh that's right, they do actually. You can buy the HR21 outright for $500 if you don't want a commitment. Of course you'll end up spending more over 2 years doing that then leasing but if you are that afraid of commitment the option is there.

Having said all that there is no universal right or wrong answer. The only right answer is what is best for you personally.

Actually no you cannot get the Uverse internet service without the Uverse TV service, you can get stock DSL from AT&T without a AT&T phone number, but not the Uverse internet access, it is in bundle only. someone mentioned that you can get the full service, but then cancel the TV end and keep internet, but they are closing that loophole.

The commitment does not bother me in the least, comparing channel lineups neither the local cable company, AT&T or dish have the same offereings that myself and my family are interested in. Add to the fact I really don't care if I have a Tivo based unit, a non-Tivo based unit or a drunk monkey recording the shows.

would I pay extra for for a non-commitment service over a commitment service? Nope, not worth it, have more important things to spend the extra money on then TV viewing.

would be interesting to see where you saw the 500 cost, most of the costs I have seen bandied about are closer to 800. Again, not worth it, why would I want to spend that kind of money on something that only works on the DirectV network and nothing else, not sure about anyone else, but have a lot better things to spend disposable income on they a piece of electronic gear that will be useless when and if I ever cancel the service

[DouglasPHill]

I canceled as well. Same thing: Uverse, crummy DVR, will have whole house DVR in coming months, all networked together, 3MB Internet. No installation fee. No hardware fee. No contract. Monthly TV/DVR fee $50. I told all this to the CSR and she offered a discount on my current DirecTivo of $15 per month for a year. Direct is not hungry. Again, I will miss TIVO. TIVO is the best. I did not make any demands on the CSR but if she had offered me two R16s and locked in $50 per month for two years, I would have taken it.

[RS4]

...

I then view a 24-month contract as a HUGE benefit to the consumer.


...

My guess is that you must have been a politician or are planning to run for office :D Only a politician would look at a one-way binding contract for 2 years with limited advantages and think this is good stuff:confused: In case you haven't checked lately, Direct is making huge profit margins, so I don't think you need fear about them going belly up.;)

BTW, the Tivo Series 3 can now be had for $399 while I got my Tivo HDs for $249 and $279. According to the Tivo financial calls, there is very little subsidizing in that. Perhaps if you are quoting prices, you might check out the current offers.:cool:

[shibby191]

The commitment does not bother me in the least, comparing channel lineups neither the local cable company, AT&T or dish have the same offereings that myself and my family are interested in. Add to the fact I really don't care if I have a Tivo based unit, a non-Tivo based unit or a drunk monkey recording the shows.

would I pay extra for for a non-commitment service over a commitment service? Nope, not worth it, have more important things to spend the extra money on then TV viewing.

would be interesting to see where you saw the 500 cost, most of the costs I have seen bandied about are closer to 800. Again, not worth it, why would I want to spend that kind of money on something that only works on the DirectV network and nothing else, not sure about anyone else, but have a lot better things to spend disposable income on they a piece of electronic gear that will be useless when and if I ever cancel the service

I think we are in agreement. ;) I personally don't care about commitments either if I am getting what I want. And the drunk monkey is welcome in my house any time as long as it records what I tell it.

As for the $500, it was lowered from $750 to around $500 when the price of the lease went down to $199. Hardware costs are going down in general over time. And yes, to me it's not worth it to actually buy it as you come out on the short end of the stick in terms of money but hey, some people just can't lease something for some reason. Personally I'll lease it cause if it breaks they will replace it. :D

[sjberra]

I think we are in agreement. ;) I personally don't care about commitments either if I am getting what I want. And the drunk monkey is welcome in my house any time as long as it records what I tell it.

As for the $500, it was lowered from $750 to around $500 when the price of the lease went down to $199. Hardware costs are going down in general over time. And yes, to me it's not worth it to actually buy it as you come out on the short end of the stick in terms of money but hey, some people just can't lease something for some reason. Personally I'll lease it cause if it breaks they will replace it. :D

qualification - if it breaks outside of the 90 day warrenty, you pay 19.95 for shipping and handling and your commitment is extended, if you have the protection plan then they replace it at no charge with no commintment extention.

[p_wallace]

This is a different subject but is Direct going to continue Tivo support? I live where there is no choice but Direct, Dish and Time Warner Cable and no OTA reception. I have a stock R10 and a Direct HD DVR and I want to get Tivo HD (10-250?) but am I throwing away money? The Direct DVR is OK but with HD comming on the HD is relatively small and I like the idea of upgrading the Tivo's and also the ability to network sounds great to. THe only complaint I have in Direct is cost but Dish and TimeWarner are at the same price point for my area (No Competition does that) and Dish has no Sunday Ticket (GO STEELERS) I have to have so I'm kinda' stuck with Direct for now.

[shibby191]

This is a different subject but is Direct going to continue Tivo support? I live where there is no choice but Direct, Dish and Time Warner Cable and no OTA reception. I have a stock R10 and a Direct HD DVR and I want to get Tivo HD (10-250?) but am I throwing away money?

Yes you are wasting your money on an HR10 unless you just want HD OTA (which you said you can't get) and SD from DirecTV. The few (7 or so) HD channels left in MPEG2 will soon migrate to MPEG4 only. Only the HR20/21 (non Tivo DVR) can get the 90+ HD channels from DirecTV.

[p_wallace]

Thanks Shibby for the info. Is there an alternative H/D for the DTV HD DVR? The one that is advertised is $2000 for 2Tb and I can get drives for around $550 or less. Can a SATA H/D work with the DVR?

[TonyTheTiger]

Thanks Shibby for the info. Is there an alternative H/D for the DTV HD DVR? The one that is advertised is $2000 for 2Tb and I can get drives for around $550 or less. Can a SATA H/D work with the DVR?

Your ONLY choice for the HD DVR is the HR20/21 from D*. It's a maximum of $199 from D* direct and you can add an eSata external drive. This will be used INSTEAD of the internal drive, not in addition to it.

Upgrade information is available at www.dbstalk.com, where there is a lot more info on the non-TiVo DVRs, but you also welcome to ask here.


ETA: See my avatar! Let's start on the other hand in '08!

[p_wallace]

Your ONLY choice for the HD DVR is the HR20/21 from D*. It's a maximum of $199 from D* direct and you can add an eSata external drive. This will be used INSTEAD of the internal drive, not in addition to it.

Upgrade information is available at www.dbstalk.com, where there is a lot more info on the non-TiVo DVRs, but you also welcome to ask here.


ETA: See my avatar! Let's start on the other hand in '08!

THANKS I'm finding out all kinds of good info and Yes I hope that next year won't be a down year with the loss of Red, all good things........ I am hopeful but resigned that he will be gone.

[Scott D]

That makes no sense at all to me, as the contract appears to be completely one sided on their side and has no benefit to the customer. It ties the customer down, but it doesn't restrict what DTV can do - including raising prices, or dropping channels. People aren't trying to avoid a contract because they might decide one day to stop watching TV, but because one could get unsatisfied with the service or there might be a better alternative.

Exactly! Let your pocketbook rule. DirecTV is nothing more than another company that wants your money, OOOPS, I mean business. This two year commitment thingy is nothing more than a scam. Especially paying up front cost on a leased receiver and not applying it to your cancellation fees. Seems to me that you already paid them $199.99 as a deposit on the leased unit. That's how I'd do it if it were me. That, at least is more fair towards the customer. Wait. This contract isn't fair to customers. Yeah.....that's right! Read it. In a nutshell, it goes like this. DirecTV can do whatever the h*ll they want and you have absolutely no rights at all.:eek:

[joed32]

THANKS I'm finding out all kinds of good info and Yes I hope that next year won't be a down year with the loss of Red, all good things........ I am hopeful but resigned that he will be gone.

A killer schedule for the Steelers next year.

[TyroneShoes]

This is a different subject but is Direct going to continue Tivo support?... I think they have a support contract through 2010, in exchange for Tivo not suing them over DVR copyright issues like they just hammered DISH.

But that doesn't mean much if the Tivo will no longer get channels. The original thinking was that DTV would keep MPEG-2 channels going on the Ku sats and only duplicate them as MPEG-4 on the Ka sats once the Ku sats begin to fall out of the sky. But it looks like they might start converting them in place on the Ku sats much earlier to more efficiently use that bandwidth, which kind of hangs Tivo out to dry.

I think that they want to drive more folks away from Tivo by sunsetting more M2 channels as quickly as possible so that there are very few by the time 2010 comes around and they can pull the plug without the phone PBX blowing up.

[netringer]

Yep. After over 5 years with DirecTV, today I canceled my subscription and yanked the TiVos. :eek:

That's right. I am TiVo-less, at least for the time being.

Back in the day, I signed up with DirecTV because they had TiVo, dual tuner TiVo. That was really the only reason. OK. I really, really hated (and still hate) Charter Cable. But, given a choice between Dish and D*TV, D*TV won based on their TiVo.

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.

...

1. Yes. Series 1 and Series 2 SA Tivos work with U-verse. The setup can be a little funky. Series 3 SA TiVos don't work (so, no HD)... but, a lot of U-verse users are lobbying TiVo and AT&T - and, it sounds like somebody is a least listening (unlike D*).

...
Anyhow, all you guys what dissed me. You're all nuts. LMAO. :D


I'm with you and right behind you designr for all of the reasons you listed. I got a DTiVo shortly after I subscribed to D* and decided I want TiVo service not DirecTV service. When D* dumped TiVo they were dumping my future business.

It is amazing reading the D* fanbois saying that "Woot! the latest Rupert box for $250 almost even works to record to most of your shows as long as you hack it, have unreleased code and reboot it every day." I'm pretty sure they're paying customers, so I don't get why they get so excited.

I bought an HR10-250 a year ago. I was very happy with it, but I had techs out to my new house 6 times to fix my dish until DirecTV finally charged me $70 for a service call. :mad: I've had D* for 12 years. Suddenly I don't know how I should except it to work.

The high HD and DVR charge for a handful of channels was bad enough. Then they had to add $5 a month more for the few channels you were already getting. I canceled HD. I'm about to cancel HBO and maybe one DTiVo. It's amazing that my bill is still gonna be $65 a month for what amounts to BASIC service with a TiVo.

I have an HD TiVo with lifetime. I just got motivated to set it up with network only - I don't have an outdoor antenna in my new house far from town - and finally got TiVo2Go and all of the net features working. It's way cool. After being with DirecTV for 12 years I finally get to see what a TiVo is supposed to be able to do. I like.

I WILL NOT deal with the customer prevention specialists at Comcast. The latest example: when I bought my house they argued with me that my address doesn't exist.

My problem is even thought the Uverse fiber VRAD is about 35 feet from where I type this ON MY BACK YARD FENCE, they tell me my address isn't "green." To add insult, I talked to the UVerse techs on my fence Friday while they were installing Uverse for my neighbors! :mad:

I'm still thinking adding a TiVo Series 2 to my UVerse box will get me where I want to be with MRV and TiVo2Go.

What frosted me is TiVo telling me I can't add a TiVo for $6.95 a month with my lifetime any more. In fact the site says I don't qualify for multi-unit with my lifetime any more. Fine, TiVo. If I spring for a Series 2 I'll get one on eBay with lifetime already.

*sigh* TiVo is another company constantly aiming at foot and pulling trigger.

[sjberra]

I'm with you and right behind you designr for all of the reasons you listed. I got a DTiVo shortly after I subscribed to D* and decided I want TiVo service not DirecTV service. When D* dumped TiVo they were dumping my future business.

It is amazing reading the D* fanbois saying that "Woot! the latest Rupert box for $250 almost even works to record to most of your shows as long as you hack it, have unreleased code and reboot it every day." I'm pretty sure they're paying customers, so I don't get why they get so excited.

I bought an HR10-250 a year ago. I was very happy with it, but I had techs out to my new house 6 times to fix my dish until DirecTV finally charged me $70 for a service call. :mad: I've had D* for 12 years. Suddenly I don't know how I should except it to work.

The high HD and DVR charge for a handful of channels was bad enough. Then they had to add $5 a month more for the few channels you were already getting. I canceled HD. I'm about to cancel HBO and maybe one DTiVo. It's amazing that my bill is still gonna be $65 a month for what amounts to BASIC service with a TiVo.

I have an HD TiVo with lifetime. I just got motivated to set it up with network only - I don't have an outdoor antenna in my new house far from town - and finally got TiVo2Go and all of the net features working. It's way cool. After being with DirecTV for 12 years I finally get to see what a TiVo is supposed to be able to do. I like.

I WILL NOT deal with the customer prevention specialists at Comcast. The latest example: when I bought my house they argued with me that my address doesn't exist.

My problem is even thought the Uverse fiber VRAD is about 35 feet from where I type this ON MY BACK YARD FENCE, they tell me my address isn't "green." To add insult, I talked to the UVerse techs on my fence Friday while they were installing Uverse for my neighbors! :mad:

I'm still thinking adding a TiVo Series 2 to my UVerse box will get me where I want to be with MRV and TiVo2Go.

What frosted me is TiVo telling me I can't add a TiVo for $6.95 a month with my lifetime any more. In fact the site says I don't qualify for multi-unit with my lifetime any more. Fine, TiVo. If I spring for a Series 2 I'll get one on eBay with lifetime already.

*sigh* TiVo is another company constantly aiming at foot and pulling trigger.

Ok, I am confused here, in one paragraph you state you cannot get Uverse, but in the nnext one you show that you are going to add a Tivo Series 2 to your Uverse. Which is it? Also, you just might want to look a lot deeper into Uverse, they currently only allow 1 HD stream into the house, so if you are recording 1 HD program you cannot watch another.

no idea where you are getting the mis-information about the new HR2X's series box, I expierence the "Woot! the latest Rupert box for $250 almost even works to record to most of your shows as long as you hack it, have unreleased code and reboot it every day." as you so put it,

I do not load a new CE to the box every day to get it to work, nor do I have to Hack it for anything. Have them connected happily to my network, grabbing the VOD shows that I and my family want to watch. I have had a lot less problems with the HR2X series then I have had witht e infamous HR10 box, at least I have not heard the screams of angusih from my wife and kids when the HR10 restarts in the middle of Americian Idol or Dora the Explorer.

Basicly I am 100 percent oposite, When DirectC dumped the Tivo they kept my business. Will I ever change? Maybe once AT&T gets off the the technology slow train and makes their Uverse systems a lot more flexible then it is right now. Right now, I will stay with Directv, especiualy looking forward to the release of the PC based system that was annouced at CES

[shibby191]

Also, you just might want to look a lot deeper into Uverse, they currently only allow 1 HD stream into the house, so if you are recording 1 HD program you cannot watch another.

LOL. Yep. They had plans to up that a whole *2* HD streams at the end of 2006, then again in 2007 and now the plan is to up it to 2 by the end of 2008. We'll see if they get there. Even with 2, that is a show stopper in my house. We have up to 5 HD streams now, no way could go down to 1 or even 2. What do you do when you have 3 network shows in HD on at the same time? Sorry, can only record one of them and you can't even watch a 2nd one live. Lame.

I do not load a new CE to the box every day to get it to work, nor do I have to Hack it for anything.

Especially since there is no way to hack it anyway. Not sure where the poster above got his information. :)

[sjberra]

LOL. Yep. They had plans to up that a whole *2* HD streams at the end of 2006, then again in 2007 and now the plan is to up it to 2 by the end of 2008. We'll see if they get there. Even with 2, that is a show stopper in my house. We have up to 5 HD streams now, no way could go down to 1 or even 2. What do you do when you have 3 network shows in HD on at the same time? Sorry, can only record one of them and you can't even watch a 2nd one live. Lame.



Especially since there is no way to hack it anyway. Not sure where the poster above got his information. :)

Found out one thing, on the Uverse forum, if you question the need for multiple HD feeds or the requirment to have at least a terabyte on the whole house you get a response of why do you need more then one HD feed and add on drive space?

[Bradc314]

Today (well, Friday, actually) I cancelled Charter Cable, and upgraded my DirecTV account.

About a month ago I decided to switch from DTV to Charter for HDTV and Internet. From the very moment they hooked me up, I was unhappy. For the extra money, I only had about 6 HD channels, and NONE of them were the major networks (CBS, ABC, NBC). Those just simply were not offerred in my area (despite what the website stated when I ordered).

So, instead of cancelling DTV, I called them back and ordered their HD package (after telling them about my switch to cable, and the fact that Dish was calling every other day). The end result is that DTV offers me WAY more HD channels, including my Chicago locals, and, thanks to Customer Retention, they offer it at a price much lower than Charter or Dish.

So, DTV *almost* lost a 6-year customer, but thankfully he saw the err of his way and cancelled the other guys instead.

[netringer]

Ok, I am confused here, in one paragraph you state you cannot get Uverse, but in the nnext one you show that you are going to add a Tivo Series 2 to your Uverse. Which is it? Also, you just might want to look a lot deeper into Uverse, they currently only allow 1 HD stream into the house, so if you are recording 1 HD program you cannot watch another.

no idea where you are getting the mis-information about the new HR2X's series box, I expierence the "Woot! the latest Rupert box for $250 almost even works to record to most of your shows as long as you hack it, have unreleased code and reboot it every day." as you so put it,

I do not load a new CE to the box every day to get it to work, nor do I have to Hack it for anything. Have them connected happily to my network, grabbing the VOD shows that I and my family want to watch. I have had a lot less problems with the HR2X series then I have had witht e infamous HR10 box, at least I have not heard the screams of angusih from my wife and kids when the HR10 restarts in the middle of Americian Idol or Dora the Explorer.

Basicly I am 100 percent oposite, When DirectC dumped the Tivo they kept my business. Will I ever change? Maybe once AT&T gets off the the technology slow train and makes their Uverse systems a lot more flexible then it is right now. Right now, I will stay with Directv, especiualy looking forward to the release of the PC based system that was annouced at CES

I don't happen to need more than one HD stream. I can get by fine for the time it takes to add the second stream. I only have one HDTV and really only need two TVs connected. Three just to have some unoccupied rooms covered. Different needs.

I will have HD OTA to my HD TiVo when I put up an antenna. That's three more (or unlimited) "streams."

I expect to have Uverse in a month or two at the outside. They just have to enter "engineer" my address to make it available.

The point is I'll have access to more HD channels and a cost that's 30-40% less than D* and I don't have to buy one or more $200 boxes that are actually leased.

To clear up: I'll record pay HD from UVerse with the UVerse DVR. I'll record HD OTA with my HD TiVO. I *may* record SD from OTA and the UVerse STB to an as yet unowned Series 2 SD TiVo, with MRV TiVo2GO and all that on the two TiVos.

If you don't realize that the TiVo UI and functionality is the best then ...Owell. I think you're comparing how the 10 year old D* Tivo was crippled compared to new D* DVRs (no HD, no net, no MRV,....) rather than what TiVo can really do. Sorta like Hondas are better than Fords because I love my new 2008 Honda over my 1990 Ford. The Ford just can't compare.

I can make the same bogus comparison. I don't have a 5 LNB dish because a) I only need the 3 LNB for my DTivos and b) the various loser installers took 4 trips to just get 3 LNB and 3 outlets working. (My house has a concrete tile roof. No way to mount the big dish.) So from my perspective DirecTV DVRs only have like 6 HD channels and no HD locals, right? And THAT is what I was getting soaked an extra $20+ a month for.

[Jebberwocky!]

So, DTV *almost* lost a 6-year customer, but thankfully he saw the err of his way and cancelled the other guys instead.

now you risk being called a DTV Fanboy ;)

I don't happen to need more than one HD stream.

LOL I have 10 HD feed going into 5 different DVR including a TIVO. Diff need for sure.

Surprisingly, or in my mind, not surprisingly, the TIVO gets used the least of the 5 HD recorders in use currently.


I liked this quote in PC Mag article:

"I'll never love a DVR the way I loved my TiVo. But sometimes you have to abandon the things you love when technology moves on. I really wanted those new MPEG4 HD channels, and old TiVo couldn't keep up."

[lew]

Do you have any facts (links) to support your $1000 figure?

DTV changed to a lease arrangement. The cost to the customer didn't change. Prior to the lease arrangement a customer could return his equipment and would escape any fee.

How is this change a huge benefit to the consumer?

You're entitled to be wrong, just don't expect the rest of us to accept your "facts".

I switched to FiOS. I have a 2 year comittment but the installer actually took the time to snake wires and Verizon guarantees my rate for duration of the comittment.


The actual cost of providing a dish, installation, and PVR can be well over $1000 out of pocket for them. Margins on reselling sat channels are slimmer than you may think, and figures I've seen on the subject reveal that it takes them something on the order of 42 months to break even.

I then view a 24-month contract as a HUGE benefit to the consumer. Of course I don't want to pay if I don't have to or be obligated if I don't have to, but I do have to pay someone if I want service, and DTV customers are asked to agree to a certain level of obligation. That's sound business and should be expected. On the other hand, no one's holding a gun to your head, and you're free to let that doorknob hit you in the ass.

[Bradc314]

now you risk being called a DTV Fanboy ;)
Today, I guess I am.

I only wish the DTV/TiVo story had gone a different way.

Oh well....

[sjberra]

I don't happen to need more than one HD stream. I can get by fine for the time it takes to add the second stream. I only have one HDTV and really only need two TVs connected. Three just to have some unoccupied rooms covered. Different needs.

I will have HD OTA to my HD TiVo when I put up an antenna. That's three more (or unlimited) "streams."

I expect to have Uverse in a month or two at the outside. They just have to enter "engineer" my address to make it available.

The point is I'll have access to more HD channels and a cost that's 30-40% less than D* and I don't have to buy one or more $200 boxes that are actually leased.

To clear up: I'll record pay HD from UVerse with the UVerse DVR. I'll record HD OTA with my HD TiVO. I *may* record SD from OTA and the UVerse STB to an as yet unowned Series 2 SD TiVo, with MRV TiVo2GO and all that on the two TiVos.

If you don't realize that the TiVo UI and functionality is the best then ...Owell. I think you're comparing how the 10 year old D* Tivo was crippled compared to new D* DVRs (no HD, no net, no MRV,....) rather than what TiVo can really do. Sorta like Hondas are better than Fords because I love my new 2008 Honda over my 1990 Ford. The Ford just can't compare.

I can make the same bogus comparison. I don't have a 5 LNB dish because a) I only need the 3 LNB for my DTivos and b) the various loser installers took 4 trips to just get 3 LNB and 3 outlets working. (My house has a concrete tile roof. No way to mount the big dish.) So from my perspective DirecTV DVRs only have like 6 HD channels and no HD locals, right? And THAT is what I was getting soaked an extra $20+ a month for.

really glad that you can get by on a single HD feed, I discount OTA becase there are only 4 HD OTA channels here and reception is the pits. Sorry, I have looked at the Uvers HD list, it is way shorter then what Directv offers of the SAT. 99.5 percent of the HD that I record for myself and my family is in the sat channels only Toon, Nick, DiscoveryHD, History HD, Science Channel HD, the number of shows that are recorded in a week on OTA will not take up the fingers on a single hand.

So what you will do when you are recording a HD channel over Uverse and your wife/SO/kids come in and tell you they would like to watch/record something that is on another UVerse HD channel?

That is your prespective, if you don;t like the installers, negotiate with directv and pick your own installer. Pay them and see about a reimburse. Not sure where you are at but have had HD locals here for over a year.

I still stand that the TIVO UI is to close to a Windows 3.0 system, you may like it, but I have adapted, and yes before you ask at one time there multiple HR10's running in my house, all but one have been replaced with the new HR2X's. The last one has been relegated to the TV set that in the garage so I can watch it while restoring the motorcycle. When it dies again, it will be replaced under the protection plan with a HR2X box

Sorry as it stands Uverse is not ready for Prime Time, even the original release of the R15 out performs their capabilities. You might want to research a little deeper into the capabilites of the Tivo and Uverse. Might want to look at this thread here

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=366398&highlight=Uverse

[newsposter]

Now, with my Direct TiVos being slowly strangled to death by D*TV, there's no reason to stay. So I have jumped ship and installed U-verse.


will you come back now that there is hdtivo in the works?

[tivoboy]

the HDTIVO is going to be what, 12-15 months out?

[newsposter]

isnt that great.. a whole year to plan!

[tividiot]

And there's no assurance that DirecTv's new HD TiVo will come out on time. Who knows?

I've loathed my DirecTv homegrown DVRs, so I'm dumping them this week and going to FiOS, as it's just become available to my house. I may jump back to DirecTv when their new TiVo becomes available. Or maybe not. I've been a customer since DirecTv began in 1994, and was perfectly satisfied until I was introduced to their homemade DVR. I'm tired of paying more than $100 for endless software bugs, which should have been ironed out by now. With each software release, old bugs die, new bugs are born and even older bugs are reborn. FiOS has its share of problems as well, but I'd rather try something else than tread water with DTV.

[slocko]

I switched recently to FIOS and I like it. With the Tivo boxes you get a lot more features than you ever got from DirecTivo. Pretty soon you'll be able to get HD on Demand from Amazon.

[Texceo]

I guess i must just be lucky. I have 4 of the new DVRs and i havent had any problems. If anything i think it has more features the the old box.