What is the discrete remote code for NPL?

[ciper]

I would like to program a remote to directly view the Now Playing List without using a macro. My Series 1 SVR-2000 had this button and I am lost without it. The LIST button on my Sony remote is the only button that the paint completely wore off of.

Since the functionality existed in the past there is a chance that the code is still floating around somewhere waiting for us to find it. Before I take the plunge myself I thought I'd ask if this has been solved already,,,, so has it?

Here is an image, look to the left of the Tivoguy button
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ZfrRoKgeBxYaUM:http://www.stevelionel.com/SVR2000-remote-upper.jpg

[bkdtv]

Harmony supports that LIST code on their universal remotes.

I have it programmed on my Harmony "peanut" remote. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5917522#post5917522)

http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/harmony/harmony74_customize_small.gif (http://mysite.verizon.net/~fiosdvr/harmony/harmony74_customize.png)
Menu button set to LIST code. Click for larger.

[ciper]

Very interesting. Seems to confirm my assumption that the discrete LIST code still exists. Now I wonder if I can find a friend at Logitech to help me out.

[bkdtv]

Very interesting. Seems to confirm my assumption that the discrete LIST code still exists. Now I wonder if I can find a friend at Logitech to help me out.What exactly do you want to do?

I don't think you can learn that function to the TiVo remotes, unless you have the TiVo Series3 GLO remote and want to stick it on the power, input, volume, or mute buttons.

[ciper]

I have no plan to use the Tivo remotes. I hate the button layout, the shape and even the color scheme. The peanut drives me up the wall. I would have owned a Tivo earlier if it wasnt for the terrible remote, luckily Sony came around with a little common sense. I took extra effort to convince others to buy SVR-2000/SVR-3000/SAT-T60 instead so they wouldn't be forced to use the standard Tivo remote.

Could you tell I don't like the Tivo remote ;)

[ToddNeedsTiVo]

Ouch, ciper! :eek:

I find the TiVo remote to be the most intuitive one in my pile by far. For most actions one need not even look at it to use it.

[ciper]

Ill give you en example.
To pick a certain show from the NPL with the Tivo remote -
1. Tivoguy at the very top
2. Either:
Number button at the very bottom
Arrow keys to select NPL
4. Right arrow near the top to go into the show options
So either I need to move back and forth from the top to the bottom of the remote for the number shortcut or the remote is in an unnatural position in my hand with 1/2 of it hanging out the bottom the entire time. The weight of the battery makes this even worse.

Where as on the Sony remote
1. List button in middle
2. Arrow keys also in the middle
All the while the remote is balanced in my hand.

Think of the way you tell people "Once you have Tivo you just get it" and I'll say "Once you've used the Sony remote you just get it"

For most actions one need not even look at it to use it.
It could be that you are used to it. Call me old fashioned but traditionally the numbers are on the top while controls are below it and I like it that way. Get off my lawn.

[GoHokies!]

You must have abnormally tiny hands (not a judgment, just a statement), when I hold the peanut balanced in the center of my hand, my thumb easily reaches the Tivo button and the directional pad. :D

[ciper]

when I hold the peanut balanced in the center of my hand

Thats the issue. It is not the normal way to hold a remote. Think about the older style of remotes and they almost always had a flat portion with no buttons near the bottom that sort of served as a grip.
I did a google image search and here are some of the random remotes that came up demonstrating this

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:VdtMR7oMpEUG1M:http://www.felston.com/images/remote_control.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Ug9vgAXCLFwVEM:http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/gallery/remotes/DVD86-Remote.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nMQj63AHGm7URM:http://www.mavenarts.com/idea/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/URC.jpg http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:3nUBBzCqD-HhOM:http://www.germes-online.com/direct/dbimage/50234904/Small_Remote_Control.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Mzm5HClSBnWkAM:http://www.oli.tudelft.nl/uselog/pictures/Philips_remote_control.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ByCzRA6MBD6_1M:http://graphics.x10.com/images20/remote2.gif

Because of the increased number of features on new devices I have seen this area fill in but the remote is still often designed with the mindset that the bottom/back will site flush with your hand while the rest protrudes.
Here is a good example of someone holding the Tivo remote in the traditional fashion. Tell me how they can press the TivoGuy button with their thumb
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:xogbXZEpVU0YsM:http://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/images/iphone-comp-06.jpg

Being different to improve functionality is great. Being different to stand out? bleh I don't like it.

[ciper]

9 image limite got me -
Let me rephrase. When I sense the work of an engineer I am happy. When I sense the work of someone in the marketing business unit I want to go yell at them.

The TivoGuy is supposed to be the "master" button in my mind.
An engineer would think to locate it in the most convenient location.
A marketing person would think to locate it at the very top.
Now compare the Sony Tivo remote to the Tivo brand remote
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Ql1izyhwl_qeGM:http://www.weaknees.com/images/tivo_remote/sony_svr.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nT_U4HHKDhs3DM:http://www.weaknees.com/images/tivo_remote/dtv_hd_tivo_remote.jpg
Which do you think was designed by marketing?

[rifleman69]

9 image limite got me -
Let me rephrase. When I sense the work of an engineer I am happy. When I sense the work of someone in the marketing business unit I want to go yell at them.

The TivoGuy is supposed to be the "master" button in my mind.
An engineer would think to locate it in the most convenient location.
A marketing person would think to locate it at the very top.
Now compare the Sony Tivo remote to the Tivo brand remote
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:Ql1izyhwl_qeGM:http://www.weaknees.com/images/tivo_remote/sony_svr.jpghttp://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nT_U4HHKDhs3DM:http://www.weaknees.com/images/tivo_remote/dtv_hd_tivo_remote.jpg
Which do you think was designed by marketing?


Most convenient is at the top IMO. I most certainly don't want it in the middle of the remote where it could be erroneously touched over and over and over and over. It's located up at the top like most power buttons for a reason.

Plus, number keys at the top of the remote? No thank you!

[AJRitz]

A couple of comments:
1. I happen to agree with the OP, I much preferred the Sony remote that came with my old SAT-60 to the peanut. Different strokes for different folks.

2. Good news about the "List" button - the discrete code of it is the same as it has always been. You can teach the "List" command to a learning remote from any old TiVo remote that you have that has the "List" command.

[ToddNeedsTiVo]

I always go to the NPL by pressing the TiVo button twice, and then I'm already adjacent to the directional pad to navigate on that menu.

Even when I have to go from the TiVo button to a single digit (for example, TiVo-1 to access the Season Pass List) and back up to the directional pad, it seems easy.

Regardless of who influenced its design, I think (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong) the consensus among the crowd is that the TiVo remote is very well laid out and balanced. I'm 6'3", so maybe my hands are bigger than yours. I love the design and I'm glad my Harmony 659 tapers a bit in the middle, too.

Irrespective of that, if you're more comfortable with the Sony's layout, that's fine, too. I've never held one of those.

I think a key element of the TiVo remote is the "slim waist" shape as opposed to the "bulging waist" of the Sony remote. This frees up the fleshy part of the palm below the thumb to articulate more with the thumb, greatly extending its reach, rather than being occupied in grasping a wider object.

Now, that sounds like a silly observation, but it's true. My computer mouse is a bit wider in the center, and holding it up pretending it is a remote gives me a certain range of motion with my thumb. This is awkward because of the width at the middle. Holding my desk stapler, while not curved in the middle, it's narrower overall and is much easier to balance in my palm while my thumb can more easily move over its imaginary buttons. Since I can cup my palm slightly around it, my thumb has a great range of movement. That's why the TiVo seems so easy to use for me.

There might be a TiVo button at the top, but I think plenty of engineering went into its design. :up:

[BiloxiGeek]

Ill give you en example.
To pick a certain show from the NPL with the Tivo remote -
1. Tivoguy at the very top
2. Either:
Number button at the very bottom
Arrow keys to select NPL

Double tap the TiVo button and you're in the NPL.

[ciper]

A couple of comments:
1. I happen to agree with the OP, I much preferred the Sony remote that came with my old SAT-60 to the peanut. Different strokes for different folks.

2. Good news about the "List" button - the discrete code of it is the same as it has always been. You can teach the "List" command to a learning remote from any old TiVo remote that you have that has the "List" command.

That is probably true. I wonder though,,, is the "List" code from a Sony remote the same as the "List" code from a Tivo regular remote?

Background for the newcomers - back in the S1 days all the platforms were exactly the same excluding the face with one exception. The Sony models used slightly modified IR codes so if you restore a Phillips OS onto a Sony you would need the peanut remote.

[wickerbill]

I prefer the Sony remote as well. It was a superior design and it's too bad that Tivo didn't incorporate more of the features into their remote, though they did finally fix the directional pad on the series 3 glo remotes by putting the select button in the middle like the Sony remotes had all along.

[ciper]

I forgot my favorite feature of the Sony remote. The directional keys were separate buttons instead of a "rocker" like on the regular Tivo remote. I find myself often hitting the wrong key with the Tivo rocker buttons.

[CrashHD]

There are worse button placements than the tivo button at the top.
Like, for example, the power button on DTV tivo remotes. That egregious error is, however, made up for in the fact that the DTivo remotes include a "List" button right there on the remote.

I bought a standard tivo remote for the one room in which I have 2 tivos (dvr1/2 instead of sat/tv). The "List" button is horribly missed.

[HerronScott]

We also found the Sony remote to be far more ergonomic and easier to use than the original TiVo peanut remote (We had a Sony and a Philips TiVo until we moved to 2 Series 3 early last year). The placement of the TiVo button on the Sony remote meant that I didn't have to rock the remote to reach it like I did with the original peanut and the Series 3 peanut.

We actually ended up buying the original URC-6131 universal remote which also followed the Sony design and placed the PVR button right above the play controls (which were in the center of the remote as they should be and which seems to be the flaw in most generic non-PVR universal remotes).

Scott

[mattack]

There are worse button placements than the tivo button at the top.
Like, for example, the power button on DTV tivo remotes. That egregious error is, however, made up for in the fact that the DTivo remotes include a "List" button right there on the remote.

I bought a standard tivo remote for the one room in which I have 2 tivos (dvr1/2 instead of sat/tv). The "List" button is horribly missed.

Wait, DTV remotes work on regular (non-Sony) Tivos, right? So that could be your solution.
(That's funny, I didn't realize that DTV remotes have a list button -- because I sometimes drive the Tivo when at a friend's house.. I just hit TivoTivo just like at home with non-DTV tivos.. but I *have* hit the power button accidentally several times on the DTV tivo remote.)

[CrashHD]

drive the Tivo

It's nice to see I'm not the only "Tivo driver" here. My wife lets me drive when we tivo together. (I have to, she crashes into things).

Yes, the DTivo remotes have a list button. It is the one right above the :down:. If I got a standalone tomorrow, I'd be using my DTivo remotes with it, unless I had 2 tivos in one room (TVPwr button anger notwithstanding).

I'm not bothered by hitting the power button accidentally. I can turn the TV back on, and backup 3 seconds. I'm bothered by groggily reaching for the TV Power button in the morning, having left the active tuner on the station I want for morning news, accidentally hitting the number 1 key directly below the TV Power, and thereby flushing the live tv buffer before the tv even comes on.

A perfect Tivo remote would have the TVPwr button where the SA Tivos have it, and a List button where the DTV Tivos have it.

[ciper]

Hmm,, maybe I should try to buy a Dtivo remote to test with my HD.
Anyone in the bay area up for an experiment?

[sfhub]

Hmm,, maybe I should try to buy a Dtivo remote to test with my HD.
Anyone in the bay area up for an experiment?
All the TiVos support the NPL discrete function as far as I can tell.

Sony TiVo remote codes are different format than other TiVo remotes.

For other TiVo remotes 99% of the codes are basically the same except for some model specific functions. In addition the way TiVo software figures out which remote functionality to use is based on the TiVo button. This code is different for various models of TiVo. For example if you send the S1 TiVo button code to a S3, from that point on it modifies the behavior of LiveTV. It no longer swaps tuners. Once you send the S3 TiVo button code, it reverts back to swapping tuners.

[slude]

As someone who has both a Sony-Tivo (SVR-3000) and a Tivo-Tivo (TivoHD), I agree emphatically that Sony's remotes have several design advantages over Tivo's:

dedicated now-playing button (mentioned before, but worth repeating)
the play and pause trick-play buttons are of equal size and equi-distant from the center-line of the remote, recognizing that both will be used equally often
the fast-forward and rewind trick-play buttons are sized as normal buttons, providing a larger effective surface area under the thumb which makes them easier to depress
the location of the Tivo-specific control buttons on the remote allow you to hold it without constant pressure on the fatty lower-part of your palm


I realize we're dealing with two generations raised on home video game consoles now, but it remains bad design to require a user to memorize the use of button sequences for rapid access to non-labeled uses of a button (insert standard in-joke reference to hidden-function button sequence for Mario or GTA) such as double-tap Tivo button for NPL or mode-dependent use of pause button for 'play' command. Personally I consider this an argument against OP's suspicion that the Tivo-Tivo remote was designed by a marketer and the Sony-Tivo remote was designed by an engineer -- I find this sort of UI behavior more common in UIs designed by an engineer and think the Sony-Tivo remote seems more like what you get when the engineer hires a Human Factor expert to create the UI for the gadget the engineer invented.

All of which is why I honestly would not have a Tivo-Tivo today if I hadn't found this http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101136 explaining that the Sony-Tivo remotes are so-called "JP1" remotes and can therefore be re-programmed to send the Tivo-Tivo remote codes.

Hacking of "JP1" remotes has progressed a bit since the days when that archived post was made and now you can get (small web stores, ebay) a pre-made kit that lets you avoid breaking out the soldering iron.

[ciper]

Slude: You win the internet for today. Once I find another Sony remote to mod I can put my peanut back in the box!

For those Tivo fans who became defensive over my comments I hope this thread and the one Slude posted shows I am not alone and no offense was intended.