Lost - 1/31 - Beginning of the End

[Paperboy2003]

....it's back

Wanted more, but I'm sure they'll deliver over the next few episodes

[Paperboy2003]

Other thoughts:

Why are there only 'six' as in the Oceanic Six?
What was Charlie referring to?

Why do they assume that the other people are evil just b/c they're not with Penny?

[ireland967]

Fantastic hour of TV, Lost is back :up:


Oceanic 6 - Hurley, Jack, Kate, ? ? ?

[cwoody222]

I was satisfied! Great episode, IMHO. A "game changer" just like the finale last year. It's clear that the "Oceanic Six" made some decision to be able to return and that at least some some of them are still left there. I suspect that decision will be the theme going forward along with Dharma (if we can assume Lance Riddick who came to visit Hurley at the institution is from Dharma) trying to determine what really happened on the island.

Was surprised they opened with a Hurley episode and that we saw Jacob again so soon.

I wonder, is whoever was in the coffin in last year's finale one of the six?

[cwoody222]

Why do they assume that the other people are evil just b/c they're not with Penny?

'Cause Naomi said Penny hired her, which she obviously did not.

So, they're lying.

Liars are bad ;)

[jehma]

So there's a big secret. Jack said (in the finale) "I'm tired of lying" and he came to see if Hurley was going to tell.

Where do you think the finale flash forwards fall on the timeline with the scene with Hurley in the mental institution? I think it must be earlier, with the finale scenes being the last before they "go back" or somehow change what happened ...

[cwoody222]

So there's a big secret. Jack said (in the finale) "I'm tired of lying" and he came to see if Hurley was going to tell.

Where do you think the finale flash forwards fall on the timeline with the scene with Hurley in the mental institution? I think it must be earlier, with the finale scenes being the last before they "go back" or somehow change what happened ...

The finale must have been after Hurley in the institution... that's why Jack mentioned he was thinking of growing a beard.

Jack was drinking (in the very beginning of the ep) but obviously wasn't yet as bad as we saw him during the finale.

Hurley's feeling guilty now... Jack hasn't quite caught up to him... yet. From the finale, it's clear he will.

[skinnyjm]

Right, the "flash forwards" apparently will not be in chronological order. Before the crash Jack was not much (if ever) a drinker. Hurley saying "It" wants us back was quite interesting, why couldn't this have been a 2 hour season premiere? :)

[Shakhari]

I loved it that Jack actually pulled the trigger. Loved the look on Locke's face.

[maharg18]

I for one find the flash-forwards much more interesting than the flashbacks. I hope they continue using them!

[Mike Farrington]

I wonder if Jack sees his father the same way Hurley sees Charlie. This would help explain his drunken tirade in the halls of the hospital to the new chief of surgery.

[Todd]

'Cause Naomi said Penny hired her, which she obviously did not.

So, they're lying.

Liars are bad ;)

Good point, I had forgotten about that.


Solid episode. I wish this season was more than 8 episodes though! It's interesting that some people from both camps at the end got out alive...

[Rob Helmerichs]

It's interesting that we know six people leave the island, that three of them are Jack, Hurley, and Kate, and that in the "civil war" that seems to be brewing, Jack/Kate and Hurley are on opposite sides. Obviously, a lot's going to happen before The Six get off the island!

So I guess the rest of the series is the stuff that happens before they get off the island, the stuff that happens while they're off the island, and the stuff that happens after they return?
Solid episode. I wish this season was more than 8 episodes though!
The season is 16 episodes, but when we see the "back eight" is an open question. The producers are upset that ABC is showing the first eight now, since the whole sixteen were designed to be seen in consecutive weeks...

[Mike Farrington]

In case anybody missed it, when Hurley was in the interrogation room and a Charlie-like figure swam up to the glass... His had had "They need you" written on it.

[skinnyjm]

I for one find the flash-forwards much more interesting than the flashbacks. I hope they continue using them!

I'm guessing it will all be flash-forwards from here on. It's what they meant by "getting off the island isn't the end". I like them also.

[Figaro]

Well I guess the flash forwards will allow grown up Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllt to come back to the show.

[billboard_NE]

I loved it that Jack actually pulled the trigger. Loved the look on Locke's face.


I was starting to get sick of Jack, but after he pulled the trigger he has his man card back!

[jehma]

It's interesting that we know six people leave the island, that three of them are Jack, Hurley, and Kate, and that in the "civil war" that seems to be brewing, Jack/Kate and Hurley are on opposite sides. Obviously, a lot's going to happen before The Six get off the island!

So I guess the rest of the series is the stuff that happens before they get off the island, the stuff that happens while they're off the island, and the stuff that happens after they return?

Yes, that's what I was thinking. In last season's finale, Jack is convinced they have to go back, but not Kate. I wonder if she gets to that point as well.

BTW - this was my first Lost in HD :up:

[Mike Farrington]

It's interesting that we know six people leave the island, that three of them are Jack, Hurley, and Kate, and that in the "civil war" that seems to be brewing, Jack/Kate and Hurley are on opposite sides. Obviously, a lot's going to happen before The Six get off the island!I wonder if the man in the coffin counts as one of the "Oceanic Six". Probably not though. I'm guessing it is someone who knows how to get back to the island. Perhaps someone from the boat.

[skinnyjm]

I wonder if the man in the coffin counts as one of the "Oceanic Six". Probably not though. I'm guessing it is someone who knows how to get back to the island. Perhaps someone from the boat.

Excellent point!!! :D

[loubob57]

Fantastic hour of TV, Lost is back :up:


Oceanic 6 - Hurley, Jack, Kate, ? ? ?

Rose and Bernard stayed with Jack, so they are possibilities. But who knows? If so that leaves one more.

[emandbri]

Who is the actor that played the guy at the end? He is totally CUTE! IMDB wasn't helpful.

It annoyed me that they totally changed Claire's hair, it was curly in the season finale. If they want to change it that is fine but not in the same scene.

[Figaro]

Who is the actor that played the guy at the end? He is totally CUTE! IMDB wasn't helpful.

It annoyed me that they totally changed Claire's hair, it was curly in the season finale. If they want to change it that is fine but not in the same scene.

Isn't it Elliot from E.T.?

[skinnyjm]

Who is the actor that played the guy at the end? He is totally CUTE! IMDB wasn't helpful.

It annoyed me that they totally changed Claire's hair, it was curly in the season finale. If they want to change it that is fine but not in the same scene.

Have you been to this site?: Lostpedia (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Main_Page)
Maybe the answer to your first question lies there. :)

[michad]

That was Henry Thomas.

[aadam101]

Right, the "flash forwards" apparently will not be in chronological order. Before the crash Jack was not much (if ever) a drinker. Hurley saying "It" wants us back was quite interesting, why couldn't this have been a 2 hour season premiere? :)

Uhhhh...the writers are on strike. They need to spread them out. In a few months they are going to have NOTHING.

[stalemate]

Just brainstorming here...

Could Michael and Walt be 2 of the 6?

[spikedavis]

That wasn't Henry Thomas-that was Jeremey Davies from Saving Private Ryan.

FACTS, PEOPLE!!!

[devlindark]

for the person who is in the casket
Judging by the way Kate reacted it has to be either Ben, which i doubt
but I would think more so that it would end up being Sawyer because the guys said there was no service no family or friends and when jack told her about it she said why would I go!

This is going to be a great season, can't wait for more...

[Rob Helmerichs]

Rose and Bernard stayed with Jack, so they are possibilities. But who knows? If so that leaves one more.
But Hurley DIDN'T stay with Jack, and he is clearly one of the Six. So which "side" they're on "now" has nothing to do with which side they end up on.

[jlb]

Could it be Hurley in the coffin? When Hurly goes with Locke, he says to JAck, I am going with my friend. Even though we saw the flash forward of Jack playing hoops with Hurley, it was more to see "if he will tell". At the moment Hurley said what he did about going with Locke, maybe Jack realizes that Hurley is no longer his friend. And the person is the coffin is "neither friend nor family".........

Lost is back!!!!!!!!!!

Could the guy who came to see Hurley be Walt?

On the Island, people are immortal, or so we think. IIRC, one of the convention wisdom theories is that due to the properties of the Island, time goes more slowly on the Island. So it is conceivable that much mroe time passes for anyone who gets off, than those on. So if Walt did get off, it is possible who aged quite a bit.......

Doubt it, but I love that we get to try and figure it out again......

[cwoody222]

Huh, and I thought it was Fisher Stevens since I saw his name in the credits. Who did he play?

(just googled, wow, is my memory of what Fisher looks like off! ;) )

[cwoody222]

Could it be Hurley in the coffin? When Hurly goes with Locke, he says to JAck, I am going with my friend. Even though we saw the flash forward of Jack playing hoops with Hurley, it was more to see "if he will tell". At the moment Hurley said what he did about going with Locke, maybe Jack realizes that Hurley is no longer his friend. And the person is the coffin is "neither friend nor family".........

Lost is back!!!!!!!!!!

But why wouldn't Kate go?

Maybe before his death Hurly "rats" them all out?

Nah, I'm still thinking the person is the casket is more of a big player like Ben, Locke or some other Other or Dharma person we haven't met yet.

Do we know it's a man? Could it be Juliet?

[whitson77]

I don't think it was Hurley in the coffin. Not to be rude, but the coffin wasn't big enough for a man of his stature. Just stating faces. My guess is Ben or Locke.

[stalemate]

Could it be Hurley in the coffin? When Hurly goes with Locke, he says to JAck, I am going with my friend. Even though we saw the flash forward of Jack playing hoops with Hurley, it was more to see "if he will tell". At the moment Hurley said what he did about going with Locke, maybe Jack realizes that Hurley is no longer his friend.The "friend" that Hurley was referring to was Charlie. Your post sounds like you think he meant Locke so I'm just clarifying.

[skinnyjm]

Uhhhh...the writers are on strike. They need to spread them out. In a few months they are going to have NOTHING.

Uhhhh...Yeah, I know.
I was implying that It was so good that 1 hour seemed to go by too quickly.
So I will just have to watch it again.

[stalemate]

I for one find the flash-forwards much more interesting than the flashbacks. I hope they continue using them!What do you mean? There are no flash-forwards, the flashbacks are just on the island now. ;) :p

[betts4]

Where are Richard and the Others. The other Others.

They were on their way to 'the temple'. I wonder if people landing will make a difference.

People sure are tromping all over the island. Moving pretty quickly too.

[MickeS]

I'm guessing it will all be flash-forwards from here on. It's what they meant by "getting off the island isn't the end". I like them also.

What's this talk about "flash forwards"? I just assumed that the "main setting" of the show is right now when they are off the island, so the flashbacks are back to the island, not the other way around.

Not that it matters much, the effect is the same, but I still see the flashbacks as flashbacks.

I LOVED this episode, was bummed when it was over. I'm dying to find out why only six people got off the island, and how it was people from both factions.

[stalemate]

Did anyone watch Eli Stone and catch what the announcement from Oceanic Air was?

[Turtleboy]

There are still people alive and on in the Island in trouble.

The Lawyer, "Are they still alive?"

Charlie, "They Need you."

Hurley and Jack's conversation. "It" (the Island?) wants us to come back. And are they going to tell what?

[stalemate]

And are they going to tell what?Maybe the big secret is that they know some people are still alive on the island.

[spikedavis]

My guess is it's Michael in the coffin.

[uncdrew]

That rocked.

:up:

It feels like months since I've watched something good on TV. :o

[nrrhgreg]

So did "Jacob" look like Christian Shepherd to anyone else but me?

[Peter000]

What's this talk about "flash forwards"? I just assumed that the "main setting" of the show is right now when they are off the island, so the flashbacks are back to the island, not the other way around.

Not that it matters much, the effect is the same, but I still see the flashbacks as flashbacks.

I LOVED this episode, was bummed when it was over. I'm dying to find out why only six people got off the island, and how it was people from both factions.

No the main setting is still the island. The flash forwards have the exact same format as the flashbacks did, all jumpy in time and telling one person's story. The island story is much more linear within each episode and week to week, and provides the backbone to the whole series. And deal more with the whole group rather than just one person.

[Mike Farrington]

Did anyone watch Eli Stone and catch what the announcement from Oceanic Air was?I saw the ad (didn't watch the show). It was an Oceanic Air advertisement about winning a golden ticket. They showed their URL FlyOceanicAir.com. But there was someome trying to "hack" into the signal. Trying to tell people that "they are lying to you", etc. It quickly overlaid a URL of find815.com.

There was also intercut footage of underwater dive footage of an Oceanic airliner.

Then, oddly, one of the last images appeared to be someone holding their hands over their bare chest.

[cherry ghost]

Just because they're referred to as the "Oceanic Six' doesn't mean that only six got off the island.

[getbak]

Did anyone watch Eli Stone and catch what the announcement from Oceanic Air was?
It was a commercial for Oceanic Airlines offering a "Golden Ticket", but the ad was getting cut into and disrupted by someone who's trying to find Flight 815, and the Oceanic website gets cut over by "Find815.com".

It wasn't identical, but it was similar to the video on this site (which was the Oceanic website in the commercial): Flyoceanicair.com

[Mike Farrington]

So did "Jacob" look like Christian Shepherd to anyone else but me?Did anyone catch that horrible painting of the dog? It belongs in MOBA (http://www.museumofbadart.org/). The dog's arms were freakishly long.

[stalemate]

Did anyone catch that horrible painting of the dog? It belongs in MOBA (http://www.museumofbadart.org/). The dog's arms were freakishly long.And apparently, it was a painting of a dog with ARMS!!!!! :p

[getbak]

So did "Jacob" look like Christian Shepherd to anyone else but me?
Yes, the person in the rocking chair in the cabin that Hurley looked into, looked like Jack's (and Claire's) dad. Presumably, that was Jacob.

[Turtleboy]

So who are the other 3?

Claire and her baby as 2?
Jin and Sun?
Bernard and Rose?

Maybe just one of a pair?

Would Desmond or Ben count, as they weren't on Oceanic?

[Mike Farrington]

And apparently, it was a painting of a dog with ARMS!!!!! :pOk, well... front legs. Trust me, look at the painting. They look like arms.

[stalemate]

So who are the other 3?

Claire and her baby as 2?
Jin and Sun?
Bernard and Rose?

Maybe just one of a pair?

Would Desmond or Ben count, as they weren't on Oceanic?Michael and Walt!

[stalemate]

Yes, the person in the rocking chair in the cabin that Hurley looked into, looked like Jack's (and Claire's) dad. Presumably, that was Jacob.I was even watching in HD and I was doing good to make out a silhouette of a person. To say it looked like someone baffles me. :confused:

[nrrhgreg]

Don't think this is a spoiler since it aired, but if so sorry. Here's a screen cap of "Jacob", brighten up for ya.

http://www.nrrh.net/jacob.jpg

[stalemate]

Don't think this is a spoiler since it aired, but if so sorry. Here's a screen cap of "Jacob", brighten up for ya.

http://www.nrrh.net/jacob.jpgThanks!

[betts4]

Has Hurley ever seen Christian Sheperd?

[Mike Farrington]

I have a feeling Jacob can take the shape of whomever he pleases, and Christian Shephard is a common form.

[cherry ghost]

Don't think this is a spoiler since it aired, but if so sorry. Here's a screen cap of "Jacob", brighten up for ya.

http://www.nrrh.net/jacob.jpg

and from last year

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x20-curtain/2/normal_curtain-cap536.jpg

[tgmii]

I count only left unaccounted for if there are 6.

Jack
Jin
Sun
Hurley
Kate
--?--

[betts4]

and from last year

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x20-curtain/2/normal_curtain-cap536.jpg

Thanks!

[Mike Farrington]

I count only left unaccounted for if there are 6.

Jack
Jin
Sun
Hurley
Kate
--?--What makes you think Sun & Jin made it off? Desmond's precognitive abilities says that Claire and Aaron get off the island, but that isn't written in stone. I don't remember any such hints that Jin and Sun get off.

[Kamakzie]

This TV show certainly is thought provoking, something rare in television these days!

[uncdrew]

Just because they're referred to as the "Oceanic Six' doesn't mean that only six got off the island.

It does to me. :)

[Waldorf]

Assuming Michael and Walt made it... Jack, Hurley, and Kate... and Desmond says Claire and Aaron make it... Maybe they don't count Aaron as the "Oceanic 6" because he's so young?

[MickeS]

Scenes like the rocking chair in the cabin always freak me out. Just looking at the pictures above gives me the creeps.

[DUDE_NJX]

Just because they're referred to as the "Oceanic Six' doesn't mean that only six got off the island.

I'm thinking it's the 6 that the public knows about.

[skinnyjm]

What's this talk about "flash forwards"? I just assumed that the "main setting" of the show is right now when they are off the island, so the flashbacks are back to the island, not the other way around.

Not that it matters much, the effect is the same, but I still see the flashbacks as flashbacks.

I LOVED this episode, was bummed when it was over. I'm dying to find out why only six people got off the island, and how it was people from both factions.

Well, Yes, I see your point. :)
And I agree, it was over too soon, see post 8, 26 & 36 :D

[skinnyjm]

Plus, It's only a matter of time before DevdogAZ replies and makes us all look bad! :eek:

[MickeS]

No the main setting is still the island. The flash forwards have the exact same format as the flashbacks did, all jumpy in time and telling one person's story.

Good point.

[JYoung]

Huh, and I thought it was Fisher Stevens since I saw his name in the credits. Who did he play?

(just googled, wow, is my memory of what Fisher looks like off! ;) )

Fisher Stevens was the voice on the phone.
I'm assuming that he'll make an appearence in an upcoming episode.

Interesting that Hurley is now seeing Jacob and the cabin (which seemed to move as well).
Wonder how Ben is going to react if he finds out that Hurley can see Jacob as well.

Obviously, the Oceanic 6 have to keep the secret of the island. It was probably the price they had to pay to leave the island.
Perhaps the other 815 survivors would be killed if they talked.

As for the Six, my guess:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Aaron
Claire

Wild thought, was Aaron the "he" Kate was refering to at the airport?

[spikedavis]

Creepy Jacob scene. Hurley ran as fast as he could from the cabin and when he opened his eyes-bam. Right back where he started.

Oh-and I loved the episode. Very emotional scenes with Hurley. Very well executed.

[madscientist]

Loved it!

If Sun doesn't get off the island she'll be dead in a month (says Juliet). So, she has the most incentive to go with Jack and is one of the most logical to be a member of the six. Of course, that doesn't mean she is a member of the six!

[CarynFromHermosa]

Hurley said <something like> "Dude, I'm sorry I went with Locke and didn't stay with you". Is this another example of Live Together, Die Alone?

I don't think the person in the coffin is any of the Oceanic 815 people (or Juliet). When Jack says that person is neither family, nor friend, I think he means it. No matter what happens/happened on the island, I think Jack would still consider them all friends (or would have said something like "we used to be friends").

[CarynFromHermosa]

So, was Charlie really there when he was talking with Hurley??

[Peter000]

So, was Charlie really there when he was talking with Hurley??

No, Charley was all in Hurley's head.

That was my impression, anyway.

[gchance]

After watching this episode I couldn't help but wonder, did I enjoy it so much because it was really good, or did I enjoy it based on the fact that I hadn't had a new episode of Lost in so long?

Either way I really enjoyed it. I think this is the most reactions we've gotten out of any death on Lost.

When Hurley saw Jacob and dropped his torch, I fully expected the whole thing to go up in flames.

Here, Hurley tries to convince Jack they'll have to go back; in the season finale, it's Jack trying to convince Kate. Maybe the last 3 of the Oceanic Six are Michael, Waaaaaaaaaalt, and Vincent... Vincent will be the last one who needs to be convinced.

Greg

[hefe]

After watching this episode I couldn't help but wonder, did I enjoy it so much because it was really good, or did I enjoy it based on the fact that I hadn't had a new episode of Lost in so long?


Both, for me. :)

[laststarfighter]

Did they just blow my mind? I think they just blew my mind!

[hefe]

No, Charley was all in Hurley's head.

That was my impression, anyway.
Didn't another patient point Charlie out to Hurley, though? Or was that a different visitor...

[skinnyjm]

Did they just blow my mind? I think they just blew my mind!
Yes. Same here. :up:

[skinnyjm]

Didn't another patient point Charlie out to Hurley, though? Or was that a different visitor...
I thought it to be those who died in the past of "815 people" are able to come back, either before the crash or after. I expect Mr Ecko may return as well, for example. But I don't know, who does at this point?

[jkeegan]

Just wanted to say great episode.. More comments after a rewatch tomorrow.

..Jeff

[jpwoof]

can someone please sum this up for me in 3 sentences? what happened to michael and walt? and who is jacob?

[balboa dave]

can someone please sum this up for me in 3 sentences? what happened to michael and walt? and who is jacob?

We don't know.
We don't know.
We don't know.

[smak]

Great episode.

The amazing thing about this show, is that for every episode before last year's finale, we were all assuming that the final Lost episode would be them triumphantly getting off the island, and now it seems that the final Lost episode will be them triumphantly getting back on the island.

Whoa!

-smak-

[Sirius Black]

I'm sure the fact that Dominic Monaghan is still listed in the main cast and wasn't a guest star is interesting to some people. A show will sometimes do this (put previous main characters in the opening credits) but Charlie was clearly killed in the finale. I'd wonder if his death and all the press of him leaving the show was actually a red herring akin to another show on a different channel. Yeah, he's dead but that doesn't we won't see Charlie again.

This was a great episode. I didn't catch that the 'present' time with Hurley in the institution was way before the last scene in the finale with Jack and Kate. In that scene, I would say Jack and Kate are the only remaining survivors.

If the 'present' time episodes are going to cover the lives of the oceanic 'six', what are they going to do with the other two episodes. There are seven episodes left but five survivors with stories to tell - if you don't count the finale from last season.

As for Jacob, are we really supposed to see him? Those pictures are screen caps of the show and then someone used Photoshop (or something like it) to enhance the picture so that we can see his face. That clearly isn't something the producers intended for most viewers to do.

[cwoody222]

If the 'present' time episodes are going to cover the lives of the oceanic 'six', what are they going to do with the other two episodes. There are seven episodes left but five survivors with stories to tell - if you don't count the finale from last season.


Do we know that flashbacks are completely gone? I just thought that flashforwards were an option now, not a guarantee for every episode.

[tgmii]

What makes you think Sun & Jin made it off? Desmond's precognitive abilities says that Claire and Aaron get off the island, but that isn't written in stone. I don't remember any such hints that Jin and Sun get off.

In the episode where Jack is shone flying back home (or flying somewhere in a flash forward) Jin and Sun are sitting behind him. about 2 rows to the left.

Tom

[Turtleboy]

In the episode where Jack is shone flying back home (or flying somewhere in a flash forward) Jin and Sun are sitting behind him. about 2 rows to the left.

Tom

You sure?

[sshedlock]

You sure?


I thought that was true in the pilot.I don't remember that in any flashback.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Good point.
On the other hand, the "flashback transitions" go from the present to the island now, instead of from the island to the present...
Creepy Jacob scene. Hurley ran as fast as he could from the cabin and when he opened his eyes-bam. Right back where he started.
No, actually...he was in a different place. The cabin moved. (At first it was in a forest, then it was in a clearing.) Hurley was seeing things again...OR WAS HE?!?

[jwehman]

I don't understand the whole "Charlie" angle back in the flash-forward (or present time, whatever). Another patient clearly sees Charlie, mentions that Hurley better watch out, because someone is, essentially, stalking him, and then Hurley looks over and sees Charlie. So, both people were able to see Charlie. What is that?! Is there some presence (or Jacob?) that can project themselves off the island and appear on the mainland? Is it the Black Smoke/monster making itself appear to Hurley?

[caslu]

So, in the past we've theorized that the 'monster' can assume the shape of different people (i.e. Jack's father, Mr. Eko's brother). So, now that it seems that Jacob is Jack's father does that mean Jacob and the 'monster' are one and the same? That would explain the moving cabin since it can probably assume any shape it chooses... still doesn't explain what the 'monster' really is...

Also, has anyone offered a guess on who was in the cabin with Jacob? (if anyone's offered a theory on this one then I've missed it).

[stalemate]

I don't understand the whole "Charlie" angle back in the flash-forward (or present time, whatever). Another patient clearly sees Charlie, mentions that Hurley better watch out, because someone is, essentially, stalking him, and then Hurley looks over and sees Charlie. So, both people were able to see Charlie. What is that?! Is there some presence (or Jacob?) that can project themselves off the island and appear on the mainland? Is it the Black Smoke/monster making itself appear to Hurley?Easy explanation: Hurley also imagined that someone pointed out Charlie to him.

[Turtleboy]

Here's something I thought of.

The public (in the future) believes that the Oceanic Six were the only people to survive the crash. The 6 haven't told anyone about anything on the Island. Maybe the public doesn't even know about the island.

Anna Lucia's partner asked Hurley if he met her in the airport or on the plane. He didn't ask him if he met her while on the Island before she died.

[jlb]

The "friend" that Hurley was referring to was Charlie. Your post sounds like you think he meant Locke so I'm just clarifying.

I know that. I inferred that by Hurley saying Charlie was his friend that Jack also was not. And it is possible in the "time" between getting off the Island and whenever Hurley dies (using the assumption it is him in the coffin) that he could have lost weight.

Hurley said to Bernard (?) that when he gets off the Island he won't have any of his money since everyone thought he was dead, thus he would be "Free". Someone who has a ton of stress lifted off of them after a long time often feel "free" and use that to make big "changes" in their lives. Maybe Hurley ends up slimming down. Or, maybe he dies a horrible death and what's left of him fits in the coffin.

All that being said, I go back to my original thought that it might be Locke in there.......

I can't wait for next Thursday!!!!!!

[danterner]

I don't understand the whole "Charlie" angle back in the flash-forward (or present time, whatever). Another patient clearly sees Charlie, mentions that Hurley better watch out, because someone is, essentially, stalking him, and then Hurley looks over and sees Charlie. So, both people were able to see Charlie. What is that?! Is there some presence (or Jacob?) that can project themselves off the island and appear on the mainland? Is it the Black Smoke/monster making itself appear to Hurley?

I see four possibilities, here:

1. It's all in Hurley's head. It's not really Charlie, it's just a manifestation of Charlie from Hurley's own subconscious. If that's the case, the physical slap that Charlie gave Hurley to prove his 'reality' is interesting, as is the fact that Hurley asked Charlie questions about what happened leading to his death ("did you know you were going to die, etc.,") and Charlie answered with what we the viewer know to be the truth but which Hurley would not have known if it was just his own subconscious making up answers.

2. It's the smoke monster, manifesting itself as Charlie, just as it has manifested itself as the horse, Jack's dad, and many other forms on the island. This would be interesting, because it would mean that the smoke monster can manifest itself off the island.

3. It's the smoke monster, but it is not manifesting itself off the island... because Hurley isn't really off the island. He just thinks he is, but we'll later learn that they never actually did leave the island, after all.

4. It really is Charlie's ghost.

Personally, I think I'm leaning toward #1

Other thoughts:

1. Hurley's conversation with the police detective in the station, after he was apprehended, was very interesting. The detective mentioned Ana Lucia and asked Hurley if maybe Hurley had talked with her "before the flight." To me, this means that the detective (and, by extension, the rest of the world) believe that the only survivors of the flight were the Oceanic 6. Not just that they were the only to be rescued, but that they were the only to survive the crash. Why else would the detective not have even considered the possibility that Hurley had known her from the island, after the crash?

{Edited to add: Turtleboy beat me to the punch. Darn my maximum verbosity.}

2. The lawyer that visited Hurley in the institution was creepy. Thought it was interesting that his last name was Abbadon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbadon).

[stalemate]

Here's something I thought of.

The public (in the future) believes that the Oceanic Six were the only people to survive the crash. The 6 haven't told anyone about anything on the Island. Maybe the public doesn't even know about the island.

Anna Lucia's partner asked Hurley if he met her in the airport or on the plane. He didn't ask him if he met her while on the Island before she died.I was just thinking about the same thing. It seems that they might be hiding the fact that anyone else had even survived the initial crash. I think he asked Hurley something along the lines of "Maybe you met her on the plane before it went down?" I'm not sure of the exact wording.

[Indiana627]

Finally must see TV again on Thursday nights!

What a great show. I had forgotten how good it was but then watched about 10 minutes of the season 3 finale Wed night and just couldn't believe how good this show really is.

And I must say, I think this is one of the best looking HD shows on TV. Just beautiful. Of course the location is a big advantage to that.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Easy explanation: Hurley also imagined that someone pointed out Charlie to him.
Slightly more difficult explanation: The person pointing somebody out to Hurley was pointing to somebody other than Charlie (I was expecting the fake lawyer; perhaps he or somebody else was really there, staring at Hurley, and Hurley didn't notice because he "saw" Charlie).

On the other hand, Charlie made a point to say repeatedly that he really was there. For some reason, it seems to me that it would be unfair for that to be a lie...

[Paperboy2003]

Its Ben in the coffin...here are my thoughts:

1)Ben said he was raised on the island....no friends off the island
2)His extended family wouldn't know him since he grew up away
3)Jacks drawn to the funeral, but no one else seems to be
4)Kate is almost repulsed at the obit

Gotta be Ben....if he's one of the Six (would he be?), does that mean there are only five now?

[Turtleboy]

Its Ben in the coffin...here are my thoughts:

1)Ben said he was raised on the island....no friends off the island
2)His extended family wouldn't know him since he grew up away
3)Jacks drawn to the funeral, but no one else seems to be
4)Kate is almost repulsed at the obit

Gotta be Ben....if he's one of the Six (would he be?), does that mean there are only five now?

I think all six are the Oceanic Six, meaning people on the flight


Jack
Kate
Hurley

My guesses:
Jin and Sun and Sayid.

[MickeS]

Its Ben in the coffin...here are my thoughts:

1)Ben said he was raised on the island....no friends off the island
2)His extended family wouldn't know him since he grew up away
3)Jacks drawn to the funeral, but no one else seems to be
4)Kate is almost repulsed at the obit

Gotta be Ben....if he's one of the Six (would he be?), does that mean there are only five now?

I think it's him too. He would die if he left the island.
He might not be one of the Oceanic Six, nothing says he has to be.
Then again, didn't Jack see the news about the death in a newspaper article? That would mean it was someone with a modicum of celebrity who died... and the Oceanic Six seem to have that, while Ben wouldn't.

Then again AGAIN, they could have said he was on the plane.

[stalemate]

On the other hand, Charlie made a point to say repeatedly that he really was there. For some reason, it seems to me that it would be unfair for that to be a lie...Unfair to Hurley or unfair to the audience?

[Paperboy2003]

I'd say that Jin and Sun have to be a part of the 6 since Sun would've died if she gave birth on the island. So while other's might've wanted to stay, Jin and Sun couldn't...

[TriBruin]

If the 'present' time episodes are going to cover the lives of the oceanic 'six', what are they going to do with the other two episodes. There are seven episodes left but five survivors with stories to tell - if you don't count the finale from last season.

Are they really going to use the same routine as Reunion. Reveal the identity of one of the Oceanic 6 each week.

(BTW, speaking of Reunion, can I just add Burn In Hell Fox! for old time sake. :D)

[MitchO]

can someone please sum this up for me in 3 sentences? what happened to michael and walt? and who is jacob?

We don't know.
We don't know.
We don't know.

Well, yeah, but what we DO know:

Michael and Walt left the island on a boat (with navigation) given to them by Ben in exchange for Michael's help. We haven't seen them since.

Ben claims that Jacob is the "true" person in charge of the Others. We know that he can't be/can barely be seen, and supposedly only Ben can see him amongst the Others.

[hefe]

I'd say that Jin and Sun have to be a part of the 6 since Sun would've died if she gave birth on the island. So while other's might've wanted to stay, Jin and Sun couldn't...

If it all came down to a simple choice, then sure. But there's a lot of guilt over "what they did," so I'm guessing it's not that simple.

[Paperboy2003]

Is there ANY chance that Michael and Walt are 'affiliated' with the boat people who claim they're associated with Penny? I know it's a stretch, but just wondering...

[jehma]

I was just thinking about the same thing. It seems that they might be hiding the fact that anyone else had even survived the initial crash. I think he asked Hurley something along the lines of "Maybe you met her on the plane before it went down?" I'm not sure of the exact wording.

Maybe time passes differently on the island than off and the 90 days on the island seemed like no time at all to everyone else, so they couldn't reveal they were "on the island". We know there's something odd about time there "you do remember birthdays, don't you?"

[Magister]

Hurley didn't just say he didn't meet Anna on the plane, he said he didn't know her.

I think the Oceanic 6 are the only ones to have gotten off the island of the losties. Ben wouldn't count.

So we have:
1. Jack
2. Kate
3. Hurley
4. ? Coffin person (don't think it was hurley)
5. ? Claire
6. ? Aaron

I don't think Locke would have left the island. He likes it there.

But maybe not Claire and Aaron, we only know they make it to the Helicopter. Possible they only make it to the ship, or the new peoples base.

Benard/Rose? I think Rose has to stay on the island to stay healthy.
Sawyer? I think he might have left w/ Kate and could be one of the 6.
Sayid wouldn't have left the island. He wouldn't have abondoned them.
Jin/Sun possible. But assume her death was one of the horrible things that happens.

[jehma]

A very interesting theory here (http://lost-theories.com/theories/2007/may/24/kates-he-and-price-redemption/). If you click on the episode title further up on the page, you'll see other theories.

[tiams]

In the episode where Jack is shone flying back home (or flying somewhere in a flash forward) Jin and Sun are sitting behind him. about 2 rows to the left.

Tom


No, they were not.

As for the man in the coffin, we can rule out any of the Oceanic 6. Those 6 were celebrities and their deaths would have attracted some public attention. And since only 6 supposedly got off the Island, it probably wasn't anyone on on Oceanic 815.


And I think the man in the cabin with Jacob had to be Locke because he appeared to Hurley right after he saw the cabin.

[stalemate]

Shone is a form of shine.
Shown is a form of show.

Sorry, had to, compulsion.

[stalemate]

Hurley didn't just say he didn't meet Anna on the plane, he said he didn't know her.Right, but the guy asking didn't seem to consider it a possibility that maybe she lived for a while on the island after it crashed. He asked Hurley if he met her on the plane. He didn't ask, "Hey Hugo, did you live with Anna Lucia for a while on the island but she just didn't make it off the island?"

I just interpret the wording of his question to mean that everyone thinks the Oceanic 6 are the only ones to survive the initial crash and that the big secret that the Oceanic 6 are hiding is the fact that there are other people alive on the island.

I'm reading a lot into it I know but that's what these threads are for right? :)

[loubob57]

Do we really know that Charlie is dead?

We didn't see much of him after the room flooded. There whould have been an air bubble at the top of the room. He could have gotten a few breaths from that. He might have been able to squeeze through the window and swim to the surface. Presumably Desmond would have seen enough through the door to be sure he was dead, but they didn't show us that. If Mikhail can survive a speargun shot in the friggin' heart ...

[ElJay]

I'm watching this show as if it's a comedy now. I have to laugh it it or else I'd be pissed off to no end about it. If I wanted to be lead on endlessly I'd just go back to college and help out hot girls with their computers.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Do we really know that Charlie is dead?
Yeah, that was my thought last year--this isn't exactly a place where dead means dead.

[danplaysbass]

I also think that the eye we saw in the cabin was Locke. We obviously know that Locke knew where the cabin was (assuming it is stationary) and it would make sense that a man like him would go back there to try and figure out what upset Ben so much.

[Skittles]

Here's something I thought of.

The public (in the future) believes that the Oceanic Six were the only people to survive the crash. The 6 haven't told anyone about anything on the Island. Maybe the public doesn't even know about the island.

Anna Lucia's partner asked Hurley if he met her in the airport or on the plane. He didn't ask him if he met her while on the Island before she died.This is my opinion, as well. I think the Oceanic Six are the only ones that 'escaped' the island. The six of them told the public that the rest of the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 died, when in reality, they're still on the island, defending it from The Naomi Group.

And now, they are each feeling different levels of guilt for abandoning The Island, and abandoning the rest of Flight 815. Hurley's mind (with the chemical imbalance) delves into a level of insanity, and visions of Charlie, to have that guilt manifest itself before him. We see that Jack has taken a vested interest in Hurley's sanity (and his silence) and that Hurley's guilt is tearing him apart. And that's going to end up affecting Jack, who will go into a downward drunken spiral trying to assuage a similar guilt.

It also explains why Jack says, at the end of Through The Looking Glass, that they made a mistake leaving the island behind.

When characters in the real world are interacting with Hurley, they never mention his stay on the island. I honestly think that The Six have told the public that they were the only six to survive the crash. They're hiding the island, they're hiding the rest of the 815'ers that are still on the island, protecting it in the same manner that The Others have.

That explains the Oceanic "representative" that visits Hurley in the mental institution, who's very curious about finding out about the island.

What's most puzzling to me is how at the start of the episode, Jack sees the top of Hurley's Camaro and just *knows* it's him, after seeing the top of his car for a few seconds. And there's zero doubt in his mind that it's Hurley.

[jr461]

But what about the numbers? :eek:;):D

[stalemate]

This is my opinion, as well. I think the Oceanic Six are the only ones that 'escaped' the island. The six of them told the public that the rest of the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 died, when in reality, they're still on the island, defending it from The Naomi Group.

And now, they are each feeling different levels of guilt for abandoning The Island, and abandoning the rest of Flight 815. Hurley's mind (with the chemical imbalance) delves into a level of insanity, and visions of Charlie, to have that guilt manifest itself before him. We see that Jack has taken a vested interest in Hurley's sanity (and his silence) and that Hurley's guilt is tearing him apart. And that's going to end up affecting Jack, who will go into a downward drunken spiral trying to assuage a similar guilt.

It also explains why Jack says, at the end of Through The Looking Glass, that they made a mistake leaving the island behind.

When characters in the real world are interacting with Hurley, they never mention his stay on the island. I honestly think that The Six have told the public that they were the only six to survive the crash. They're hiding the island, they're hiding the rest of the 815'ers that are still on the island, protecting it in the same manner that The Others have.I'm with you 100%

[MickeS]

Right, but the guy asking didn't seem to consider it a possibility that maybe she lived for a while on the island after it crashed. He asked Hurley if he met her on the plane. He didn't ask, "Hey Hugo, did you live with Anna Lucia for a while on the island but she just didn't make it off the island?"

I just interpret the wording of his question to mean that everyone thinks the Oceanic 6 are the only ones to survive the initial crash and that the big secret that the Oceanic 6 are hiding is the fact that there are other people alive on the island.

I'm reading a lot into it I know but that's what these threads are for right? :)
That's how I interpreted it too. It might not be the case, but it's how it came across.

[jamesbobo]

Well, yeah, but what we DO know:

Michael and Walt left the island on a boat (with navigation) given to them by Ben in exchange for Michael's help. We haven't seen them since.


But we did see Walt, he helped Locke out of the pit.

I corrected my post. Not very good with names.

[MickeS]

What's most puzzling to me is how at the start of the episode, Jack sees the top of Hurley's Camaro and just *knows* it's him, after seeing the top of his car for a few seconds. And there's zero doubt in his mind that it's Hurley.

I just assumed he knew what car Hurley had (it was pretty distinctive), and knew he might be crazy enough to end up in that situation.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote.

[Skittles]

But we did see Micheal, he helped Locke out of the pit.I think you mean to say that we did see Walt.

[Paperboy2003]

But we did see Micheal, he helped Locke out of the pit.


That was actually Walt and I think we were meant to believe that was just a 'vision' imploring him to get up and not die in the pit...that he had more work to do for the island.

[Skittles]

I just assumed he knew what car Hurley had (it was pretty distinctive), and knew he might be crazy enough to end up in that situation.

I agree with the rest of what you wrote.Yeah, but in a city like Los Angeles, where there are millions of people and millions of cars, how did he know it was Hurley's car?

He turns on the TV, he sees the car chase, and in seconds he just knows it's Hurley. When I re-watched that scene, I had no doubt in my own mind that Jack knows it's Hurley right away.

I think something happened to The Oceanic Six in the days leading up to the high speed chase, because Jack doesn't seem terribly surprised to see Hurley doing this, nor does he require that much of a leap to believe that it's Hurley in the car.

[cwoody222]

This is my opinion, as well. I think the Oceanic Six are the only ones that 'escaped' the island. The six of them told the public that the rest of the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 died, when in reality, they're still on the island, defending it from The Naomi Group.

And now, they are each feeling different levels of guilt for abandoning The Island, and abandoning the rest of Flight 815. Hurley's mind (with the chemical imbalance) delves into a level of insanity, and visions of Charlie, to have that guilt manifest itself before him. We see that Jack has taken a vested interest in Hurley's sanity (and his silence) and that Hurley's guilt is tearing him apart. And that's going to end up affecting Jack, who will go into a downward drunken spiral trying to assuage a similar guilt.

It also explains why Jack says, at the end of Through The Looking Glass, that they made a mistake leaving the island behind.

When characters in the real world are interacting with Hurley, they never mention his stay on the island. I honestly think that The Six have told the public that they were the only six to survive the crash. They're hiding the island, they're hiding the rest of the 815'ers that are still on the island, protecting it in the same manner that The Others have.

That explains the Oceanic "representative" that visits Hurley in the mental institution, who's very curious about finding out about the island.

What's most puzzling to me is how at the start of the episode, Jack sees the top of Hurley's Camaro and just *knows* it's him, after seeing the top of his car for a few seconds. And there's zero doubt in his mind that it's Hurley.

I agree with everything you just said. That was what I thought too.

As for Jack knowing the Camaro I think the entire short scene with Jack was just to establish it was a flash-forward ('cause Jack was drinking) and I think the fact that Jack recognized his car was just to establish they were friendly and in contact.

[jeffo13]

Here's something I thought of.

The public (in the future) believes that the Oceanic Six were the only people to survive the crash. The 6 haven't told anyone about anything on the Island. Maybe the public doesn't even know about the island.

Anna Lucia's partner asked Hurley if he met her in the airport or on the plane. He didn't ask him if he met her while on the Island before she died.


Nobody survived the crash. 6 made a deal with the devil to come back from the dead.:eek: They are now feeling guilty.

I knew it was Hurly because that was the car he was building with Cheech.

Jeff
PSN=bender313

[Bierboy]

....The season is 16 episodes, but when we see the "back eight" is an open question. The producers are upset that ABC is showing the first eight now, since the whole sixteen were designed to be seen in consecutive weeks...Wondering if they may decide to re-air the front eight right before the back eight (when the back eight are ready to go)?

[MickeS]

Yeah, but in a city like Los Angeles, where there are millions of people and millions of cars, how did he know it was Hurley's car?

If I saw a car chase on TV and the car was the EXACT same car that a friend of mine had, I would take notice. Considering what Jack and Hurley have gone through, it's not much of a stretch to me to imagine that when Jack sees that it's a car that is exactly like Hurley's, he knows that it indeed IS his car.

[TAsunder]

My theory is not entirely solid but ties together a lot of elements. Spoiler tags are because of assumptions based on the lost experience. Of course, based on the approach the producers have taken to the lost experience and how much they have downplayed it, my theory is most likely 100% horse crap.

Given that

The Dharma Initiative intended to change the valenzetti equation predicting the end of the world, but failed

I believe therefore that Naomi's people are with the Dharma Initiative, which has been looking for the island for some time, unable to find it due to the islands natural or technological "cloaking" properties ever since their people "went missing" (aka were gassed by Ben). There will be much misunderstanding between the groups since Naomi is dead and they will be naturally suspicious of jack's crew, being that Ben (who is with them) slaughtered all of their people.

I think the Oceanic Six were informed of the nature of the island, and that the island is
Meant to be an oasis / isolation from the rest of the world where various science and technology are employed in conjunction with whatever weird properties the island has to try to change one of the factors without directly interacting with the rest of the world

They were given a choice to return to the real world or stay and help, but never be able to see anyone again.

Given the nature of the island, they would not be permitted to reveal the truth about it due to "contamination" by the real world interfering with their work to alter one of the factors. Which would thus perhaps explain the quarantine hatch, or that could just be a red herring.

The six chose to enter the real world again and either the others didn't or they were told that only they six would be allowed to leave. Over time they are feeling compelled to return to the island due either to guilt, stockholm syndrome type stuff, or similar reasons, or because they want to help the others leave. But they know that They shouldn't return or talk about it because it could affect the outcome of the initiative

It seems strange to me to think that the reason they can't talk is just because of some many-tendriled organization spying on them and threatening to kill everyone left on the island. I can't imagine that would lead to such broken down people. I think their choice has to be partly a noble one.

[stiffi]

I'm sure the fact that Dominic Monaghan is still listed in the main cast and wasn't a guest star is interesting to some people. A show will sometimes do this (put previous main characters in the opening credits) but Charlie was clearly killed in the finale. I'd wonder if his death and all the press of him leaving the show was actually a red herring akin to another show on a different channel. Yeah, he's dead but that doesn't we won't see Charlie again.



It looks like the producers just put everybody in the opening credits, to throw off the snoops. I noticed Harold Perrinau (Michael) for instance, but he never showed up last night. Were the Alcoholics (Michelle Rodriguez) listed too, just in case?

[Bierboy]

...Perhaps the other 815 survivors would be killed if they talked....?There were that many who survived?....WOW....;)

[markz]

This is my opinion, as well. I think the Oceanic Six are the only ones that 'escaped' the island. The six of them told the public that the rest of the survivors of Oceanic Flight 815 died, when in reality, they're still on the island, defending it from The Naomi Group.

And now, they are each feeling different levels of guilt for abandoning The Island, and abandoning the rest of Flight 815. Hurley's mind (with the chemical imbalance) delves into a level of insanity, and visions of Charlie, to have that guilt manifest itself before him. We see that Jack has taken a vested interest in Hurley's sanity (and his silence) and that Hurley's guilt is tearing him apart. And that's going to end up affecting Jack, who will go into a downward drunken spiral trying to assuage a similar guilt.

It also explains why Jack says, at the end of Through The Looking Glass, that they made a mistake leaving the island behind.

When characters in the real world are interacting with Hurley, they never mention his stay on the island. I honestly think that The Six have told the public that they were the only six to survive the crash. They're hiding the island, they're hiding the rest of the 815'ers that are still on the island, protecting it in the same manner that The Others have.

That explains the Oceanic "representative" that visits Hurley in the mental institution, who's very curious about finding out about the island.

What's most puzzling to me is how at the start of the episode, Jack sees the top of Hurley's Camaro and just *knows* it's him, after seeing the top of his car for a few seconds. And there's zero doubt in his mind that it's Hurley.

I'm with you 100%

I agree with everything you just said. That was what I thought too.

As for Jack knowing the Camaro I think the entire short scene with Jack was just to establish it was a flash-forward ('cause Jack was drinking) and I think the fact that Jack recognized his car was just to establish they were friendly and in contact.

Sign me up! I agree with Skittles' theories too!

[Sirius Black]

It looks like the producers just put everybody in the opening credits, to throw off the snoops. I noticed Harold Perrinau (Michael) for instance, but he never showed up last night. Were the Alcoholics (Michelle Rodriguez) listed too, just in case?

Casting Spoiler:Harold Perrinau wasn't in last night's episode but he is back on the show per imdb.

[TriBruin]

As for the man in the coffin, we can rule out any of the Oceanic 6. Those 6 were celebrities and their deaths would have attracted some public attention. And since only 6 supposedly got off the Island, it probably wasn't anyone on on Oceanic 815.

This is Lost we can't rule out anything. :D

However, we don't have any time line for the last two episodes, so "Through the Looking Glass" could have taken place a couple years in the future. By that time, Britney would have her one thousandth breakdown and most people would have long stopped caring about the Oceanic 6. The general public may remember the story, but they would probably not be able to tell you any details, much less recognize them on the street. A simple Obituary for a member of the Oceanic 6 would not be suprising.

[MickeS]

Casting Spoiler:Harold Perrinau wasn't in last night's episode but he is back on the show per imdb.

He was listed in the main credits last night, so I figured he'll be back. Unless he's been listed in the main credits this whole time he's been gone?

[betts4]

Sign me up! I agree with Skittles' theories too!

I can see the 'sense' in a lot of Skittles theories - good thinking! As for the car? I can't figure out how he knew it was Hurley's car either. He has not yet been shown seeing Hurley with that car.
This is the stuff that makes me nuts. Hurley seeing 'Christian' in the shack. Well, we all know it was christian (though I am not sold on it) but Hurley has no idea who that guy is. He never met him before.

Kate's lack of guilt or worry when Hurley and Jack are both suffering from it seems significant. She pulled up in a pretty nice car with a nice 'do and all when meeting Jack at the airport.

I actually hope they don't show us more of the oceanic six and let us keep guessing. This is fun!

[peitsche]

Do we know that flashbacks are completely gone? I just thought that flashforwards were an option now, not a guarantee for every episode.

From a long interview (http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2008/01/lost-shockers-a.html) with Damon Lindelof:

I didn't spoilerize it because IMO there are no spoilers in these excerpts.

"The change is “exciting for us as writers, because we were so sick of writing flashback stories,” Lindelof said over lunch at a Los Angeles restaurant. “We’ve changed the paradigm of the show, but in doing so, it’s a fairly new world in terms of how it’s going to be watched.”

The show hasn’t entirely abandoned flashbacks. But figuring out the “new rules” that “Lost” plays by “is going to be part of the fun of the new season,” he said. “All I’ll say is, we’re done telling flashback stories that are not relevant to the uber-story of the island.”

And that story has far more momentum now that the flash-forwards contain small but tantalizing clues about how the islanders were rescued and what happened after they got home.

“When you watch the flash-forwards, there’s an emotional component, but you’re also completely engaged on a plot level, because you’re like, ‘How did they get here?’” Lindelof noted.

“My fundamental thinking is, half the people are going to think it’s great, and half the people are going to say, ‘This is not the “Lost” that I know and love, and I want it to go back to being the way it was.’ And of course those will be the same people who were kvetching about the flashbacks being boring,” Lindelof said.


“It’s not a different show, but the whole paradigm of the show [has changed]. Every week it was like, ‘Here’s a conflict on the island and here’s something about this character that helps explain why they’re acting this way or what’s motivating them.’ It was more emotional -- [the flashbacks] were never plotty. The flashback stories always were, Carlton likes to say, these little New Yorker short stories. They had a beginning, a middle and an end. ‘This is the time that Kate got caught in Australia, this is the time that Sawyer decided to stop conning, this is the time that Locke went on walkabout, this is the time that Jack ratted out his dad.’

“Now, when you talk about doing flash-forwards on the show, the paradigm shifts entirely, because you’re showing the audience A, which is, they’re on the island, and you’re showing them Z, which is, they’re off the island. But the audience doesn’t know B through Y.

“So when you watch the flash-forwards, there’s an emotional component, but you’re also completely engaged on a plot level, because you’re like, ‘How did they get here?’ Every little sentence they say is a clue to what B through Y may be. You have to watch the show in an entirely different fashion.

“I think it’s great, and exciting for us as writers, because we were so sick of writing flashback stories. So we’ve changed the paradigm of the show, but in doing so, it’s a fairly new world in terms of how it’s going to be watched. My fundamental thinking is, half the people are going to think it’s great, and half the people are going to say, ‘This is not the “Lost” that I know and love, and I want it to go back to being the way that it was.’ And of course those will be the same people who were kvetching about the flashbacks being boring.”

So you said something interesting at Comic-Con last summer [more on that here], that flashbacks are going the way of the dodo. Are they gone?

“No, they’re not.”

Will it be a gradual transition to more flash-forwards?

“I don’t really want to say. I feel like, what the new rules are that the show plays by – [figuring that out] is going to be part of the fun of the new season. All I’ll say is, we’re done telling flashback stories that are not relevant to the uber-story of the island.”

One flashback I loved was Claire’s flashback to what happened when she was kidnapped on the island. Also Ben’s flashback to his own history on the island, that was cool.

“Or Juliet’s. She still has some chapters left in her story. It’s all a matter of how you want to tell it. I’ll just say again, we’re not done with flashbacks, but the flashbacks we want to do and are doing are relevant on a story level to the macro story of ‘Lost.’”

[brettatk]

For all we know Hurley may have gone to visit Jack (or vice versa) after they got back from the Island. We do not know how long they had been back when Hurley saw Charlie and fled in the camaro.

[betts4]

“So when you watch the flash-forwards, there’s an emotional component, but you’re also completely engaged on a plot level, because you’re like, ‘How did they get here?’ Every little sentence they say is a clue to what B through Y may be. You have to watch the show in an entirely different fashion.

I love it!

[JYoung]

I don't think that they are going to tell Libby's story in flash forward.

[JYoung]

Do we really know that Charlie is dead?

We didn't see much of him after the room flooded. There whould have been an air bubble at the top of the room. He could have gotten a few breaths from that. He might have been able to squeeze through the window and swim to the surface. Presumably Desmond would have seen enough through the door to be sure he was dead, but they didn't show us that. If Mikhail can survive a speargun shot in the friggin' heart ...

The producers have said in interviews that Charlie's dead.
(shrug)

[Mike Farrington]

Wait a second.

I bet Kate isn't a member of the "Oceanic Six". She obviously got of the island, but was allowed to do so in stealth. Sure, I guess she could have escaped custody after-the-fact. But I think she's too wise to have been lumped together with the other's who were "rescued". Obviously Jack had to use cloak-and-dagger techniques to get in touch with her.

Using this logic, we only know that Jack and Hurley are members of the "Oceanic Six". There are still 4 spots up for grabs.

[Bryanmc]

Wait a second.

I bet Kate isn't a member of the "Oceanic Six". She obviously got of the island, but was allowed to do so in stealth. Sure, I guess she could have escaped custody after-the-fact. But I think she's too wise to have been lumped together with the other's who were "rescued". Obviously Jack had to use cloak-and-dagger techniques to get in touch with her.

Using this logic, we only know that Jack and Hurley are members of the "Oceanic Six". There are still 4 spots up for grabs.

Interesting point.

[ireland967]

Wait a second.

I bet Kate isn't a member of the "Oceanic Six". She obviously got of the island, but was allowed to do so in stealth. Sure, I guess she could have escaped custody after-the-fact. But I think she's too wise to have been lumped together with the other's who were "rescued". Obviously Jack had to use cloak-and-dagger techniques to get in touch with her.

Using this logic, we only know that Jack and Hurley are members of the "Oceanic Six". There are still 4 spots up for grabs.

By cloak and dagger, do you mean calling her with his Razr phone? :D

There is definitely something separating Kate from Jack and Hurley. Hurley seems to have struggled fairly quickly after his return from the island, and Jack eventually succombed to some severe guilt, but Kate seems to be thriving off the island, she looked great when she met Jack at the airfield.

[Waldorf]

She's probably off the grid and not living under the stress of being one of the 6 celebrities like Jack, Hurley, Michael, Walt, Claire, and Aaron. :)

[latrobe7]

There is definitely something separating Kate from Jack and Hurley. Hurley seems to have struggled fairly quickly after his return from the island, and Jack eventually succombed to some severe guilt, but Kate seems to be thriving off the island, she looked great when she met Jack at the airfield.

Yeah, she does seem better off. I can't decide if I think she's part of the "6" or not. With Hurley and Jack they made to point to emphasize that they are celebrities because of being from Oceanic 815, and neither seemed to be handling it well; while with Kate she was doing great, but we didn't get to see enough of her to know if she is a celebrity or not. I mean, maybe she accepted the "upgrade" that Hurley declined...

[Mike Farrington]

By cloak and dagger, do you mean calling her with his Razr phone? :DWell, not using names on the phone and asking to meet at (paraphrasing) "The usual place", which is a strange place to meet for someone who isn't in hiding.

[JYoung]

Yeah, she does seem better off. I can't decide if I think she's part of the "6" or not. With Hurley and Jack they made to point to emphasize that they are celebrities because of being from Oceanic 815, and neither seemed to be handling it well; while with Kate she was doing great, but we didn't get to see enough of her to know if she is a celebrity or not. I mean, maybe she accepted the "upgrade" that Hurley declined...

Well, Hurley himself could afford the upgrade so he stays there because it's familiar and comfortable.
Bribing Hurley wouldn't work.
Threatening to kill his friends would.

[jehma]

Well, Hurley himself could afford the upgrade so he stays there because it's familiar and comfortable.
Bribing Hurley wouldn't work.
Threatening to kill his friends would.

He said that when he got back, his money would be gone because they thought he was dead.

[Mike Farrington]

Well, Hurley himself could afford the upgrade so he stays there because it's familiar and comfortable.
Bribing Hurley wouldn't work.
Threatening to kill his friends would.Hurley seemed to think that being labeled as dead for just a few months would mean that all of his money was gone. I can't imagine that to be the case. But even if his money was waiting for him, he probably would have given it all away -- believing as he does that it is cursed (and seeing firsthand that the supernatural is possible).

[JYoung]

He said that when he got back, his money would be gone because they thought he was dead.

Hurley seemed to think that being labeled as dead for just a few months would mean that all of his money was gone. I can't imagine that to be the case. But even if his money was waiting for him, he probably would have given it all away -- believing as he does that it is cursed (and seeing firsthand that the supernatural is possible).

Perhaps, but even if his money was gone, I still don't think that money would be the best way to keep him quiet.

[MickeS]

If you read a theory linked to earlier in this thread... (spoilerizing theory but it's not based on any knowledge of upcoming events, so really, just read away :))
Hurley might never even have won the lottery in the "return timeline". The more I think about it, that theory appeals to me.

[Paperboy2003]

So now that they've been split into two groups, Locke's and Jack's, what do you think the first immunity challenge will be?

[hefe]

So now that they've been split into two groups, Locke's and Jack's, what do you think the first immunity challenge will be?

:D

[Mike Farrington]

As for Jacob, are we really supposed to see him? Those pictures are screen caps of the show and then someone used Photoshop (or something like it) to enhance the picture so that we can see his face. That clearly isn't something the producers intended for most viewers to do.Are you kidding me? You think the producers don't realize that every frame is put under the proverbial microscope? Do you think John Terry was just hanging around the set that day and they threw him in Jacob's chair?

And speaking of over-analysis? Has anyone decoded the whispers from this episode yet?

[Paperboy2003]

Just a thought, but if Kate was one of the six to leave the island, as we've seen she was, then why isn't she in jail?? I'm sure this has been discussed here and in the thread from last season's finale, but I'm kinda curious....

[JYoung]

Just a thought, but if Kate was one of the six to leave the island, as we've seen she was, then why isn't she in jail?? I'm sure this has been discussed here and in the thread from last season's finale, but I'm kinda curious....

Her freedom was part of the price for her silence.

[getreal]

So, was Charlie really there when he was talking with Hurley??

That was "Charlie's Angel".
:cool:

Still reading through the posts, but couldn't resist this ...

[ducker]

As for Jacob, are we really supposed to see him? Those pictures are screen caps of the show and then someone used Photoshop (or something like it) to enhance the picture so that we can see his face. That clearly isn't something the producers intended for most viewers to do.


I believe there are lots of aspects to the show that most viewers don't do, but the producers put it in the episode for those super-fans.

like Jacob.

[gchance]

I bet Kate isn't a member of the "Oceanic Six". She obviously got of the island, but was allowed to do so in stealth.

This post got me thinking of the exchange she and Jack had at the airport:


[Kate looks near tears as does Jack]
KATE: This is not gonna change.
JACK: No, I'm sick of lying. We made a mistake.
KATE: I have to go. He's gonna be wondering where I am...
[Jack grabs her]
JACK: We were not supposed to leave.
KATE: Yes, we were.
[She releases herself]
KATE: Goodbye, Jack.
[She heads for her car]
JACK: We have to go back, Kate.
[She gets in her car and drives away]
JACK: We have to go back!!


At the time we were thinking, "She must be 'with' someone from the cast, who is it? Sawyer?" I'm starting to think that she's not in a relationship with a person at all, that it all just goes back to the island.

"He" could be Ben... or Jacob.

Oh and as far as John Terry is concerned, he was in the opening credits for gosh sakes. I don't think they give him credit for his "Previously on Lost" voiceover. :)

Greg

[stalemate]

This post got me thinking of the exchange she and Jack had at the airport:



At the time we were thinking, "She must be 'with' someone from the cast, who is it? Sawyer?" I'm starting to think that she's not in a relationship with a person at all, that it all just goes back to the island.

"He" could be Ben... or Jacob.

Oh and as far as John Terry is concerned, he was in the opening credits for gosh sakes. I don't think they give him credit for his "Previously on Lost" voiceover. :)

GregOr maybe "He" is the officer in charge of overseeing her house arrest. :p

[danterner]

Anyone else find it odd that after they get the sat phone working and call in for help from the boat off shore, it's not a 'rescue party' that comes (whatever their true motivation is), but rather a single guy that parachutes in, dropped from a helicopter like Naomi was? Is he it, or are others on the way to shore and we just haven't seen them yet because the episode ended exactly when the first one arrived? I was expecting a team of people to arrive by dingy, or something like that - not one lone guy. Wonder what his plan would be to get back off the island and to the ship again?

[DUDE_NJX]

When Jack dials Kate's phone, Sawyer answers, and gives her the phone. (in last season's finale)
Unless I'm remembering it wrong?

[getreal]

On the other hand, the "flashback transitions" go from the present to the island now, instead of from the island to the present...

No, actually...he was in a different place. The cabin moved. (At first it was in a forest, then it was in a clearing.) Hurley was seeing things again...OR WAS HE?!?

Re: Jacob's cabin ...

I also got the impression that Hurley turned and was running away from the cabin when it appeared in front of him. Then he closed his eyes and wished it away and it disappeared.

He does the same thing in the asylum with visions of people (e.g. Charlie's Angel).

But it would seem to me that Jacob's cabin is only visible to certain "special" people, as well as Jacob himself. So other people could be tromping through the woods and not see the cabin at all. But Locke and Ben and Hurley can see the cabin and Jacob.

The obvious metaphor is to God. Certain people (of faith) claim to know God and speak with God. Non-believers do not see or hear God. Certain people can hear and see Jacob while most others cannot.

[stalemate]

Anyone else find it odd that after they get the sat phone working and call in for help from the boat off shore, it's not a 'rescue party' that comes (whatever their true motivation is), but rather a single guy that parachutes in, dropped from a helicopter like Naomi was? Is he it, or are others on the way to shore and we just haven't seen them yet because the episode ended exactly when the first one arrived? I was expecting a team of people to arrive by dingy, or something like that - not one lone guy. Wonder what his plan would be to get back off the island and to the ship again?My only thought was that his job was to lead the losties to wherever it is that the full "rescue" party will be meeting them. I don't really get it thought.

[MitchO]

Everyone thinks it was Locke's eye inside of Jacob's house? I thought it very distinctly looked like Mikhail's; particularly since with Mikhail, that is all you'd see ... one eye.

Screen cap please. :)

[jlb]

I like the theory that Naiomi is working with Dharma to re-find the Island. The reason a say that is that it plugs a major hole in the theory of just the Oceanic Six got off the Island. Unless they were magically or mystically taken off the Island, some transportation methodology (read: boat) would have had to rescue them. If the method, and more importantly, its people were not with Dharma, or some group that wants to keep the Island secret, then when these folks were resuced, it would be a totally different news story.

Of course, someone like Ben could always have said, "you can leave, but don't forget we can monitor you and if we find out you "tell", we will kill you".

Maybe the person in the coffin is not dead because they are "now off the Island". Maybe the person in the coffin was getting ready to divulge the secret of the Island and the Island and/or the Others had the person killed. If one buys this theory, I could see it being Ben in there. Maybe after all this time of being a baddie, he decides that he wants to seek forgiveness and truthfulness, and as such, decides to be part of the 6 and then tell the world. Maybe some "thing" knows what Ben is going to do and has him killed. Maybe Ben, like Charlie, accepted his fate and made decisions that were for the best of other people.......

I know...all hogwash, but that's the fun of the show, to speculate wildly.


I wonder if C/C and the cast are operating in the same way. I wonder if C/C know how the final end-game will shape up. I wonder if they have told the cast. If so, I bet C/C Burnett the cast and require them not to dilvulge the secrets of the end-game.

[Paperboy2003]

You have a sat phone in hand, wouldn't want to perhaps call a friend of a loved one? Not just some guys who claim to be on a boat close by?? I mean c'mon...call ANYONE in addition to those on the boat!

[jehma]

Everyone thinks it was Locke's eye inside of Jacob's house? I thought it very distinctly looked like Mikhail's; particularly since with Mikhail, that is all you'd see ... one eye.

Screen cap please. :)

Here you go (http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/2008/02/hurley-jacob-christian-and-mystery-eye.html)

[MitchO]

You have a sat phone in hand, wouldn't want to perhaps call a friend of a loved one? Not just some guys who claim to be on a boat close by?? I mean c'mon...call ANYONE in addition to those on the boat!

Neither Jack nor Kate seemed to have any clue how to work anything other than the "receive" button. The screen itself did not appear to have normal dialing choices.

[getreal]

All that being said, I go back to my original thought that it might be Locke in <the coffin>.......


Locke and Ben are two characters who have established the point that they clearly do NOT want to leave the island. Why would anybody think that they might be part of the Oceanic Six? :confused:

[jkeegan]

By cloak and dagger, do you mean calling her with his Razr phone? :DActually, it was his KRZR (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5184330#post5184330). phone. :)

[getreal]

1. It's all in Hurley's head. It's not really Charlie, it's just a manifestation of Charlie from Hurley's own subconscious. If that's the case, the physical slap that Charlie gave Hurley to prove his 'reality' is interesting, as is the fact that Hurley asked Charlie questions about what happened leading to his death ("did you know you were going to die, etc.,") and Charlie answered with what we the viewer know to be the truth but which Hurley would not have known if it was just his own subconscious making up answers.


Remember "Dave" -- Hurley's imaginary bald-headed asylum-mate?
Hurley challenged Dave a couple of times about not being "real", and Dave responded by slapping Hurley's face on one occasion, then throwing a gourd at him another time. Hurley "felt" each of those instances, just as Charlie's Angel's slap to his face.

[wprager]

Rose and Bernard stayed with Jack, so they are possibilities. But who knows? If so that leaves one more.

Could it be Waaaaaalt! ?

[JYoung]

There was speculation back in May of 2007 that the man in the coffin was Michael.
It would explain why Jack said "Neither" and why Kate wouldn't go (for shooting Libby and Ana Lucia and betrayal).

If so, the Oceanic 6 could be:

Jack
Kate
Michael
Waaaalttt!
Sawyer
Hurley

[Paperboy2003]

There was speculation back in May of 2007 that the man in the coffin was Michael.
It would explain why Jack said "Neither" and why Kate wouldn't go (for shooting Libby and Ana Lucia and betrayal).

If so, the Oceanic 6 could be:

Jack
Kate
Michael
Waaaalttt!
Sawyer
Hurley


I guess it could be Michael, but he'd have family or friends that would show up.

[Bryanmc]

There was speculation back in May of 2007 that the man in the coffin was Michael.
It would explain why Jack said "Neither" and why Kate wouldn't go (for shooting Libby and Ana Lucia and betrayal).

Then why wouldn't Waaaaaalt have come?

[johnperkins21]

What's most puzzling to me is how at the start of the episode, Jack sees the top of Hurley's Camaro and just *knows* it's him, after seeing the top of his car for a few seconds. And there's zero doubt in his mind that it's Hurley.

My guess is the horrendous CGI they used for the chase scene. The island transmitted it to his TV and he knew, based on how awful it looked, that it was Hurley.

[stiffi]

Neither Jack nor Kate seemed to have any clue how to work anything other than the "receive" button. The screen itself did not appear to have normal dialing choices.

It kind of looks like the LG Voyager for Verizon screens.

[danterner]

Remember "Dave" -- Hurley's imaginary bald-headed asylum-mate?
Hurley challenged Dave a couple of times about not being "real", and Dave responded by slapping Hurley's face on one occasion, then throwing a gourd at him another time. Hurley "felt" each of those instances, just as Charlie's Angel's slap to his face.

Right, but I thought the physical interaction between Hurley and Dave on the island was explained by Dave really being a manifestation of the smoke monster at that point. In the "Dave" episode, were there instances where Hurley and Dave physically interacted within the flashbacks, which took place off-island, too? (I don't count Hurley putting his arm around Dave for the photo to be a physical interaction, since in the photo his arm is just resting on the back of the empty chair).

[Cindy1230]

[QUOTE=JYoung;5936693]There was speculation back in May of 2007 that the man in the coffin was Michael.
It would explain why Jack said "Neither" and why Kate wouldn't go (for shooting Libby and Ana Lucia and betrayal).
QUOTE]

I haven't looked at the post from the season finale in awhile.. but wasn't it speculated to be Michael because he was from new york and the obit was speculated to read, "The body of ..... of New York"

Walt would not have come, because, well, i dunno.

[Tsiehta]

When Jack dials Kate's phone, Sawyer answers, and gives her the phone. (in last season's finale)
Unless I'm remembering it wrong?

I don't think this was ever established.

[Sirius Black]

Why would Michael's death cause Jack's actions throughout this episode? He see the paper on the airplane at the beginning of the episode, goes to the bridge intending to jump off, saves the woman from the wreck, goes the funeral all distraught, calls Kate... no I just don't think Michael's death could possibly cause that kind of reaction in Jack. In fact, other than Kate, I can't think of anyone that we've met thus far that would cause the Jack on the island that we know to have that kind of reaction.

[Cindy1230]

Why would Michael's death cause Jack's actions throughout this episode? He see the paper on the airplane at the beginning of the episode, goes to the bridge intending to jump off, saves the woman from the wreck, goes the funeral all distraught, calls Kate... no I just don't think Michael's death could possibly cause that kind of reaction in Jack. In fact, other than Kate, I can't think of anyone that we've met thus far that would cause the Jack on the island that we know to have that kind of reaction.

That is a good point but maybe we have yet to see an interaction between jack and michael to cause him to react that way.

[DevdogAZ]

Plus, It's only a matter of time before DevdogAZ replies and makes us all look bad! :eek:
:confused: What would I say to make you look bad? What were you saying that you thought I would have input on?
In the episode where Jack is shone flying back home (or flying somewhere in a flash forward) Jin and Sun are sitting behind him. about 2 rows to the left.

Tom
No they're not.
Yeah, but in a city like Los Angeles, where there are millions of people and millions of cars, how did he know it was Hurley's car?

He turns on the TV, he sees the car chase, and in seconds he just knows it's Hurley. When I re-watched that scene, I had no doubt in my own mind that Jack knows it's Hurley right away.

I think something happened to The Oceanic Six in the days leading up to the high speed chase, because Jack doesn't seem terribly surprised to see Hurley doing this, nor does he require that much of a leap to believe that it's Hurley in the car.
I think Jack and Hurley have clearly communicated with each other since getting off the island, and Jack knew what kind of car Hurley had. It wasn't until the announcer on the TV specified what the car was that we saw Jack's recognition. I'll bet that we'll see an episode some time that will include a flash-forward that took place prior to this one where Hurley is showing off his newly restored Camaro to Jack.
Casting Spoiler:Harold Perrinau wasn't in last night's episode but he is back on the show per imdb.

He was listed in the main credits last night, so I figured he'll be back. Unless he's been listed in the main credits this whole time he's been gone?
That makes sense. Now that they're showing flash forwards, we'll be able to see Michael off island. However, I'll bet he's not considered one of the Oceanic Six since he got off in a different method and probably rejoined society in a more stealthy manner.
By cloak and dagger, do you mean calling her with his Razr phone? :D

There is definitely something separating Kate from Jack and Hurley. Hurley seems to have struggled fairly quickly after his return from the island, and Jack eventually succombed to some severe guilt, but Kate seems to be thriving off the island, she looked great when she met Jack at the airfield.
I assumed it had to do with the fact that Jack and Hurley were fairly moral before going to the island and had to do some things they were not comfortable with to get off. It truly changed them. However, Kate was a killer and a fugitive before she went, so the things she had to do to get home were probably not all that unsavory to her.
When Jack dials Kate's phone, Sawyer answers, and gives her the phone. (in last season's finale)
Unless I'm remembering it wrong?
You're remembering it wrong.
Why would Michael's death cause Jack's actions throughout this episode? He see the paper on the airplane at the beginning of the episode, goes to the bridge intending to jump off, saves the woman from the wreck, goes the funeral all distraught, calls Kate... no I just don't think Michael's death could possibly cause that kind of reaction in Jack. In fact, other than Kate, I can't think of anyone that we've met thus far that would cause the Jack on the island that we know to have that kind of reaction.
But keep in mind that Jack told the funeral director that the deceased was neither friend nor family. I can't think of anyone we've met that would cause Jack to have that reaction but that he would disavow as a friend.

[JYoung]

I guess it could be Michael, but he'd have family or friends that would show up.

Then why wouldn't Waaaaaalt have come?

Why would Michael's death cause Jack's actions throughout this episode? He see the paper on the airplane at the beginning of the episode, goes to the bridge intending to jump off, saves the woman from the wreck, goes the funeral all distraught, calls Kate... no I just don't think Michael's death could possibly cause that kind of reaction in Jack. In fact, other than Kate, I can't think of anyone that we've met thus far that would cause the Jack on the island that we know to have that kind of reaction.

Weell since Michael is back for this season, I think that there might be some story elements that we aren't aware of yet.

And if I was Waaaalt, I'd be tempted to disown or run away from Michael due to his actions.....

[teknikel]

I see four possibilities, here:

1. It's all in Hurley's head. It's not really Charlie, it's just a manifestation of Charlie from Hurley's own subconscious. If that's the case, the physical slap that Charlie gave Hurley to prove his 'reality' is interesting, as is the fact that Hurley asked Charlie questions about what happened leading to his death ("did you know you were going to die, etc.,") and Charlie answered with what we the viewer know to be the truth but which Hurley would not have known if it was just his own subconscious making up answers.



Could Desmond have not related the story to him?

[JYoung]

BTW, are there 4 or 5 "a"s in "Waaaaalt!"?

[cwoody222]

Re: Jacob's cabin ...

I also got the impression that Hurley turned and was running away from the cabin when it appeared in front of him. Then he closed his eyes and wished it away and it disappeared.

He does the same thing in the asylum with visions of people (e.g. Charlie's Angel).



Didn't Hurley magically "wish" the Dharma van to start in the first episode he found it in?

I think Hurley's got some mojo going on...

[Figaro]

I think Hurley's got some mojo going on...

Probably some major B.O. too!

[Sirius Black]

Wasn't the reason why Ben shot Locke because he was able to hear Jacob. Last night Hurley was able to see and hear Jacob or even more interesting it would seem that Jacob was looking for Hurley. That probably has some significance.

[jkeegan]

Why would Michael's death cause Jack's actions throughout this episode? He see the paper on the airplane at the beginning of the episode, goes to the bridge intending to jump off, saves the woman from the wreck, goes the funeral all distraught, calls Kate... no I just don't think Michael's death could possibly cause that kind of reaction in Jack. In fact, other than Kate, I can't think of anyone that we've met thus far that would cause the Jack on the island that we know to have that kind of reaction.Here's my thought why (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5933174#post5933174) Michael's death could cause Jack's actions.

[getreal]

But what about the numbers? :eek:;):D

Yes, the numbers ... consider this:

Oceanic 815 ... "The Oceanic 6" ...
815 + 6 = 821
8 + 2 + 1 = 11
1 + 1 = 2
2 squared = 4
"LOST" has 4 letters!!! :eek:

Coincidence? I think not!

:D

(just being silly)

[dba62]

Hmmm.

We seem to know 3 (or 2) of the Oceanic 6:

Jack
Hurley
Kate (?)

It's hard to believe that Sun wouldn't have left the island (provided she didn't end up dead). Given the prognosis of her pregnancy.

Jin would have followed Sun.

Is there any chance that Juliet would have stayed on the Island? She wanted to leave as much as Jack.

BTW - it's too bad the gun wasn't loaded when Jack pulled the trigger.

[dba62]

BTW - I think the funeral was for Ben. That makes perfect sense.

[MickeS]

Hmmm.

We seem to know 3 (or 2) of the Oceanic 6:

Jack
Hurley
Kate (?)

It's hard to believe that Sun wouldn't have left the island (provided she didn't end up dead). Given the prognosis of her pregnancy.

Jin would have followed Sun.

Is there any chance that Juliet would have stayed on the Island? She wanted to leave as much as Jack.

BTW - it's too bad the gun wasn't loaded when Jack pulled the trigger.
I think what they wanted will be shown to have very little effect on what actually happened.

[balboa dave]

BTW - I think the funeral was for Ben. That makes perfect sense.Then why would news of Ben's death cause Jack to attempt suicide?

[DevdogAZ]

Then why would news of Ben's death cause Jack to attempt suicide?
Clearly Jack is feeling guilty about whatever they did to get off the island. Whether that meant leaving people behind, or that people died in the rescue attempt, some combination of the two, or something entirely different, clearly Jack is having a hard time coming to terms with it. Perhaps the fact that Ben was alive was his one hope that maybe he could somehow use Ben's knowledge to right the wrongs he committed. However, if Ben died (and it seems like I remember that the bits and pieces of the obituary we were able to decipher indicated that it was a suicide), perhaps that brought the reality home to Jack that he's never going back and he'll never be able to correct his mistakes.

[jwehman]

Clearly Jack is feeling guilty about whatever they did to get off the island. Whether that meant leaving people behind, or that people died in the rescue attempt, some combination of the two, or something entirely different, clearly Jack is having a hard time coming to terms with it. Perhaps the fact that Ben was alive was his one hope that maybe he could somehow use Ben's knowledge to right the wrongs he committed. However, if Ben died (and it seems like I remember that the bits and pieces of the obituary we were able to decipher indicated that it was a suicide), perhaps that brought the reality home to Jack that he's never going back and he'll never be able to correct his mistakes.

Except in S3 finale, Jack is yelling at Kate (at the end) that they *HAVE* to go back...that doesn't sound like he's never going to be able to...it's like he's insisting they *must* go back.

[johnperkins21]

But keep in mind that Jack told the funeral director that the deceased was neither friend nor family. I can't think of anyone we've met that would cause Jack to have that reaction but that he would disavow as a friend.

Ben, Locke, Sawyer, Jacob, Michael, his ex-wife, and Hurley all fit that description. Heck, since we haven't seen points B through Y for everyone yet, everyone but Kate could fit that description other than Claire and Aaron.

[danterner]

Originally Posted by danterner
I see four possibilities, here:

1. It's all in Hurley's head. It's not really Charlie, it's just a manifestation of Charlie from Hurley's own subconscious. If that's the case, the physical slap that Charlie gave Hurley to prove his 'reality' is interesting, as is the fact that Hurley asked Charlie questions about what happened leading to his death ("did you know you were going to die, etc.,") and Charlie answered with what we the viewer know to be the truth but which Hurley would not have known if it was just his own subconscious making up answers.

Could Desmond have not related the story to him?

Yes, good point. Then again, if Hurley already knew the answers because Desmond had related the story to him, then why would Hurley have needed to ask Charlie about it? Just for confirmation, I guess. I can accept that. At the same time, it didn't seem like Hurley was trying to confirm anything when talking to Charlie, so much as it seemed like he was asking because he wanted information he didn't already have.

[brianp6621]

Yeah, that was my thought last year--this isn't exactly a place where dead means dead.

I contended in the last thread that it was definitely a possibility and was lambasted for it.

[getreal]

New theory:

The people on the freighter work for Oceanic Airlines and are there to retrieve the fuselage and any other remnants of Flight 815, and they may also be headed up by Mr. Widmore (Penny's dad).

In rescuing the Oceanic Six, the six castaways had to do a "deal with the devil" in order to get off of the island and return to society. This deal includes keeping quiet about certain details (like the very existence of the island), in order to spare the lives of their fellow castaways.

According to Naomi, Oceanic Airlines had already publicized the fallacious news item that the fuselage had been located at the bottom of the ocean and that there were no survivors. So they probably had to fabricate a new scenario for the public in order to explain the "six survivors".

The "Powers That Be" are closely monitoring the movements of the six survivors. That's why they need to speak without identifying each other on the phone, and meet at the noisy airport runway in the dark, etc....

[Bryanmc]

I thought that the producers have said that when a character dies on Lost, they're really dead. No "cheating" and bringing them back.

[DUDE_NJX]

Then why would news of Ben's death cause Jack to attempt suicide?

Because only Ben knew how to get back to the island?

[unicorngoddess]

So has anyone been keeping up with find815.com. I think that explains who is on that freighter and what they are doing out there. And I wouldn't doubt that the company that's funding the freighter is affiliated with Whitmore.

I don't think we can assume that WAAAAALT and/or Michael are a part of the Oceanic Six. Just because we saw them leaving the island doesn't mean they were rescued.

My theory is that for whatever reason, Kate and Jack go back for Locke's side of the group to try to convince them to switch sides. We all know Jack has to fix things and Kate can't stay in one place so she'd follow Jack. So Jack and Kate leave their group and try to get the rest over on their side. But something happens so then the only people that end up getting rescued are Kate, Jack, Locke, Hurley, Claire and Aaron and possibly Sawyer. I don't think Aaron would count as being an original Oceanic passenger because he was never "really" on the plane.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I thought that the producers have said that when a character dies on Lost, they're really dead. No "cheating" and bringing them back.
I have a hunch that when all is said and done we will be able to parse what exactly they said and what exactly happened, and see why they weren't saying what we thought they were saying.

[latrobe7]

So has anyone been keeping up with find815.com?
Yes. (the find815 game WILL be spoiled for you if you read below)
It does not explicitly say that it is the same freighter; in fact there is more of an implication that it is not. At the end of the find815 game, they find the wreckage of flight 815 in the Sundra trench. This sounds like the story Naomi told when she first landed on the island of how the wreckage of flight 815 was found. When Naomi told it, it sounded as if that was a while back. Also, in the game there is no indication of the island itself, Naomi or helicopters.

It is made clear that the company sponsoring the expedition in find815, the Maxwell Group, is a subsidiary of Widmore Industries

[TiVoter123]

The "Powers That Be" are closely monitoring the movements of the six survivors. That's why they need to speak without identifying each other on the phone, and meet at the noisy airport runway in the dark, etc....

Decent... but then how come Jack could straight up visit Hurley in the nut house in broad daylight.

[Vito the TiVo]

No one has pointed out that Locke already knows all about Charlie when Hurley shows up at the cabin, including the exact contents of the message that Charlie wrote on his hand...

And I think the fact that Hurley's fellow patient pointed Charlie out to him is definitive proof that at least something was physically there with him.

[FlugPoP]

Does anyone know why Hurley threw the "walkie"?

[latrobe7]

No one has pointed out that Locke already knows all about Charlie when Hurley shows up at the cabin, including the exact contents of the message that Charlie wrote on his hand...
I just took that to mean that Hurley and Locke had an off-screen conversation.

And I think the fact that Hurley's fellow patient pointed Charlie out to him is definitive proof that at least something was physically there with him.
I don't. I think that just as easily could be part of Hurley's hallucination.

[jwehman]

Does anyone know why Hurley threw the "walkie"?

He wanted to prevent the Freighter people from intercepting their communications, and Sawyer wasn't listening to his demands to stop using it (? IIRC)

[hefe]

Plus, It's only a matter of time before DevdogAZ replies and makes us all look bad! :eek:

Does anyone know why Hurley threw the "walkie"?

Because he didn't want it used. The people on "not Penny's boat" would hear them, and Charlie had warned them that they are not who they say they are, and he doesn't trust them.

[Vito the TiVo]

And, let me point out the show has gotten very complicated with my fiancee and I counting no less than twelve groups that are either currently or have had some influence on the island at different times, with no clear establishment of which are the same and who's motives line up.

As of last night there's:

1) Jack Castaways
2) Locke Castaways
3) Original Others (possibly immortal like Batmanuel, Mikhail)
4) Recruited Others (Ben, Juliet)
5) Dharma (likely extinct on the island)
6) Naomi's Searchers
7) Penny's Searchers
8) Rousseau's people (possibly now others? Or dead - Rousseau and her daughter are the only known survivors)
9) Adam and Eve (the skeletons in the caves w/ black and white stones)
10) The Black Rock crew and slaves (probably long dead -- but possibly part of the immortal others?)
11) Jacob (unclear as to what he is or where his loyalties are)
12) Smoke Monster (the same)

You could probably add additional ones that don't quite fit any other group, but these are either clearly over with or their intentions were/are clear:

1) Desmond
2) Tailies
3) The original Henry Gale
4) Eko's brother's plane

And there's others that aren't on the island that may or may not line up with the above groups including:

1) Widmore Searchers (not Penny's, but this may be Naomi and co.)
2) Oceanic Airlines
3) The lawyer from last night, who is probably not Oceanic as he claimed

Whew. Its a lot to try to follow and to understand how they play off and with each other.

[unicorngoddess]

Yes. (the find815 game WILL be spoiled for you if you read below)
It does not explicitly say that it is the same freighter; in fact there is more of an implication that it is not. At the end of the find815 game, they find the wreckage of flight 815 in the Sundra trench. This sounds like the story Naomi told when she first landed on the island of how the wreckage of flight 815 was found. When Naomi told it, it sounded as if that was a while back. Also, in the game there is no indication of the island itself, Naomi or helicopters.

It is made clear that the company sponsoring the expedition in find815, the Maxwell Group, is a subsidiary of Widmore Industries

Thanks...I'm not sure how far along I was in the find815 game. I think I'll go back and check it out.

I remember them saying they found the Black Rock and I remember the Maxwell group was behind the search for the Black Rock but didn't know it was mentioned the Maxwell was a part of Widmore...but I figured it would turn out that way.

So I wonder if this Maxwell group (if not the same freighter) funded both these missions...because Naomi sure did know a lot about flight 815 off the top of her head.

[latrobe7]

List of Island people
Don't forget whoever built the four-toed statue!

[latrobe7]

Thanks...I'm not sure how far along I was in the find815 game. I think I'll go back and check it out.

I remember them saying they found the Black Rock and I remember the Maxwell group was behind the search for the Black Rock but didn't know it was mentioned the Maxwell was a part of Widmore...but I figured it would turn out that way.

So I wonder if this Maxwell group (if not the same freighter) funded both these missions...because Naomi sure did know a lot about flight 815 off the top of her head.

I think the Black Rock part of the story was ruse to get the main character, Sam, involved in the search for 815 without telling him. I think the Maxwell Group knew what they were really looking for all along - further, I suspect they also know darn well where the Black Rock is (even if they don't know how to get there), and I think they planted the wreckage.

I definitely think they are behind both expeditions.

Of course, I have no idea what their motive for any of this is...

[gchance]

And I think the fact that Hurley's fellow patient pointed Charlie out to him is definitive proof that at least something was physically there with him.

Unless the patient was in Hurley's mind as well.

Greg

[dianebrat]

Because only Ben knew how to get back to the island?
:up: exactly my thoughts!
it explains the small'ish casket too, he's not a tall man

[dba62]

Then why would news of Ben's death cause Jack to attempt suicide?


Could be many things I guess. Ben insisted leaving the island was a mistake - maybe Jack blames himself for Ben's death.

I said perfect sense - should have qualified it - based on what we know today (which is nothing) - he's someone's funeral that I would expect to be lightly attended.

[latrobe7]

Why didn't Desmond go with Locke's group?

And if Ben is in the coffin, why would he leave the Island at all?

[stellie93]

Except in S3 finale, Jack is yelling at Kate (at the end) that they *HAVE* to go back...that doesn't sound like he's never going to be able to...it's like he's insisting they *must* go back.

The question is, do they know how to go back? Jack talked of flying and hoping to crash there. Not the most efficient way back. Also, if he thinks he should go back, and he knows the way, just GO already. Why does he need Kate? He never wanted her along on dangerous missions before.

"Go back" Any chance that could be back in time rather than back to the island. Or maybe that's the same thing.

Did the bad guys maybe take the leaders--the stronger ones--off the island thinking the rest won't get in their way, whatever they want to do? That would explain why Jack is here, when he surely would have been the last one to board a rescue plane after everyone else was safely on. They seemed concerned about finding Jack. Also they would have had to force Locke and Ben to go, so that's the only explanation I can think of for why they would've gone. The whole coffin thing fits Ben to a T, but they would have had to drag him off the island kicking and screaming.

[Rob Helmerichs]

And I think the fact that Hurley's fellow patient pointed Charlie out to him is definitive proof that at least something was physically there with him.
I repeat, there is no indication that the other patient was actually pointing at Charlie. I still think it's possible he was actually pointing at the "lawyer."

[Vito the TiVo]

I repeat, there is no indication that the other patient was actually pointing at Charlie. I still think it's possible he was actually pointing at the "lawyer."

Same argument, there is no indication that the "lawyer" is present in that scene... only Charlie.

[latrobe7]

Same argument, there is no indication that the "lawyer" is present in that scene... only Charlie.

There's also no indication that the other patient was there, other than Hurley seeing him.

[scheckeNYK]

I'm going to guess that Locke is the body in the coffin. We already know that people from both Jack and Locke's group get off the island, so it can go either way for the Six.

We already know he was disabled before he got to the island, and despite it's healing abilities, he's definitely added a major toll on his body since arriving. Once getting back to life off the island I imagine he wouldn't last long. Amputation would explain the unusually short casket.

This type of adverse affect on someone might illustrate to Jack that leaving the island was a mistake. We know that Hurley regrets not going with Locke, but that could just mean in the initial split we saw last night. It would be an interesting twist to see Locke wind up off the island if either forced or through a turn of events.

[DevdogAZ]

Except in S3 finale, Jack is yelling at Kate (at the end) that they *HAVE* to go back...that doesn't sound like he's never going to be able to...it's like he's insisting they *must* go back.
But I don't think he knows how. That's the point.
No one has pointed out that Locke already knows all about Charlie when Hurley shows up at the cabin, including the exact contents of the message that Charlie wrote on his hand...
There was a cut in that scene between when Locke found Hurley and when they were sitting there talking. Clearly Hurley had explained about Charlie during that cut.
Why didn't Desmond go with Locke's group?

Desmond has always wanted off the island. He just came thisclose to being able to talk to his long-lost love, Penny. He now knows she's still looking for him. Of course he'd go with the group that he thinks has the best chance of getting rescued.

[JMikeD]

Amputation would explain the unusually short casket.

Somehow I don't think that's credible.

Would they have one that's narrower for people who have lost both arms?

:):)

[sushikitten]

Is anyone else as much of a sap as I am, and cried when Hurley told Claire that Charlie was dead? I know I can't be the only one.

I want a LOST for dummies. I can follow along for the most part but I still can't keep everything straight (others, other others, dharma people, etc.). LOL

I missed some dialogue at the end. The online version wouldn't play and then when I watched it live tonight (since basketball pre-empted it last night) the same part crapped out... after the parachutist lands and says "Are you Jack?" is there anything else?

[Bryanmc]

Is anyone else as much of a sap as I am, and cried when Hurley told Claire that Charlie was dead? I know I can't be the only one.

I want a LOST for dummies. I can follow along for the most part but I still can't keep everything straight (others, other others, dharma people, etc.). LOL

I missed some dialogue at the end. The online version wouldn't play and then when I watched it live tonight (since basketball pre-empted it last night) the same part crapped out... after the parachutist lands and says "Are you Jack?" is there anything else?

No, that's the end.

[Roadblock]

Why didn't Desmond go with Locke's group?

And if Ben is in the coffin, why would he leave the Island at all?

I was also a little bothered by Desmond not joining Claire & Hurley. Yes he wants to get off the island and he saw Penny, but he was also there when Charlie died giving him the message that these people are not working for Penny! Wouldn't he go with Locke's group instead? He could still try and figure out what the other group is up to, but it's hard for me to understand why he would just give himself up to this group Charlie died warning him about.

As for Ben, he obviously wouldn't leave on his own, but he is a prisoner and they could easily force him to leave.

Also, I'm sure this has been debated to death in an 80-page thread from last season, but was there a consensus for why Charlie closed that door before he drowned? Why didn't they just swim out while the station was flooding and go back and warn everybody?

[DevdogAZ]

I was also a little bothered by Desmond not joining Claire & Hurley. Yes he wants to get off the island and he saw Penny, but he was also there when Charlie died giving him the message that these people are not working for Penny! Wouldn't he go with Locke's group instead? He could still try and figure out what the other group is up to, but it's hard for me to understand why he would just give himself up to this group Charlie died warning him about.

As for Ben, he obviously wouldn't leave on his own, but he is a prisoner and they could easily force him to leave.

Also, I'm sure this has been debated to death in an 80-page thread from last season, but was there a consensus for why Charlie closed that door before he drowned? Why didn't they just swim out while the station was flooding and go back and warn everybody?
I think the general consensus was that he had already resigned himself to death. He knew it would happen in that room. Whether he would have had time to swim out probably didn't even cross his mind. He probably simply shut the door to save Desmond and never considered that they both could have lived.

[Figaro]

Wouldn't the base have stopped flooding at some point anyway? Where would all the air in there have gone?

[avery]

Is anyone else as much of a sap as I am, and cried when Hurley told Claire that Charlie was dead? I know I can't be the only one.
I did too... also, every time I've watched Charlie's death scene.

[dianebrat]

I want a LOST for dummies. I can follow along for the most part but I still can't keep everything straight (others, other others, dharma people, etc.). LOL

With no writers on staff right now, I don't think we'll be getting podcasts from Carlton and Damon for a while, but last year I found they really helped.

and well, I'm a Lost junkie, so I hit here, and TV Squad every day after it shows, and have been known to cruise over to lostpedia.com for a fix of trivia.

YMMV ;)

Diane

[avery]

I think the general consensus was that he had already resigned himself to death. He knew it would happen in that room. Whether he would have had time to swim out probably didn't even cross his mind. He probably simply shut the door to save Desmond and never considered that they both could have lived.
True. And he had to fulfill the prophecy of Desmond's visions. First that there was no way to cheat his destiny to die - and second, so that Claire and Aaron would be taken off the island by helicopter.

[johnperkins21]

Wouldn't the base have stopped flooding at some point anyway? Where would all the air in there have gone?

Would have stopped coming in almost immediately after reaching the height of the portal that blew up. At that point he would have had enough oxygen for Desmond to put on his scuba pack, grab a second one for Charlie, then swim around and give it to Charlie. That would have given them enough time to get him out as it looked like he could have easily fit through that hole.

When they showed the room completely filled, above the port hole, it was just bad writing.

[Figaro]

Would have stopped coming in almost immediately after reaching the height of the portal that blew up. At that point he would have had enough oxygen for Desmond to put on his scuba pack, grab a second one for Charlie, then swim around and give it to Charlie. That would have given them enough time to get him out as it looked like he could have easily fit through that hole.

When they showed the room completely filled, above the port hole, it was just bad writing.

I meant even if he had left the door open. The entire base would not have flooded.

[Bryanmc]

Would have stopped coming in almost immediately after reaching the height of the portal that blew up. At that point he would have had enough oxygen for Desmond to put on his scuba pack, grab a second one for Charlie, then swim around and give it to Charlie. That would have given them enough time to get him out as it looked like he could have easily fit through that hole.

When they showed the room completely filled, above the port hole, it was just bad writing.

I thought it was brilliant writing. Charlie chose to accept his fate this time, after fighting against it for so long. He'd resigned himself to it, in order to save Claire and Aaron. Even though he could have put up another valiant fight against the latest "Charlie death situation" he opted to accept it.

Charlie's death didn't happen because there was no way to prevent it, it happened because he knew it must to save the others. It wasn't an accident, it was a choice.

Wonderful writing.

[MickeS]

I thought it was brilliant writing. Charlie chose to accept his fate this time, after fighting against it for so long. He'd resigned himself to it, in order to save Claire and Aaron. Even though he could have put up another valiant fight against the latest "Charlie death situation" he opted to accept it.

Charlie's death didn't happen because there was no way to prevent it, it happened because he knew it must to save the others. It wasn't an accident, it was a choice.

Wonderful writing.

I agree, except that they should have chosen a more scientifically accurate way to do it. :)

[johnperkins21]

I thought it was brilliant writing. Charlie chose to accept his fate this time, after fighting against it for so long. He'd resigned himself to it, in order to save Claire and Aaron. Even though he could have put up another valiant fight against the latest "Charlie death situation" he opted to accept it.

Charlie's death didn't happen because there was no way to prevent it, it happened because he knew it must to save the others. It wasn't an accident, it was a choice.

Wonderful writing.

The acceptance of his fate was good writing. They way they had him die was sloppy and amateurish.

I meant even if he had left the door open. The entire base would not have flooded.

Yes, even if he had left the door open the water would have stopped pouring in once it reached the top of that port hole. At that point the air pressure equalizes the water pressure in the same way that allows there to be a hole in the floor of the base that they could swim in to. The air needs a chance to escape for it to fill completely, and once that port is covered there is no way for air to escape.

The simplest experiment is to fill your sink with water then take a glass and plunge it straight down into the water with the opening of the glass pointing down. Very little will get into the glass and it will be filled with a pocket of air if you keep it straight. Tilt it slightly and you'll see that the amount of water that creeps in is equal to the amount of air that escapes.

[betts4]

I missed some dialogue at the end. The online version wouldn't play and then when I watched it live tonight (since basketball pre-empted it last night) the same part crapped out... after the parachutist lands and says "Are you Jack?" is there anything else?

No, that's the end.

Actually the guy also says "I'm here to rescue you."

Which made me laugh because I then pictured Kate saying "aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper....." /ducking and running