Lost - 1/31 - Beginning of the End

[gchance]

Actually the guy also says "I'm here to rescue you."


That's Sawyer's line. ;)

Greg

[thelastvoice]

But keep in mind that Jack told the funeral director that the deceased was neither friend nor family.

Didn't the funeral director ask Jack if he was friend or family and Jack replied, "Neither"? It seems to me that if it was either Michael or Walt in the casket, he would have made the superficial assumption that Jack was not family and therefore wouldn't have asked that question. I think it's more likely to be Ben or possibly Sawyer.

Rob

[madscientist]

With no writers on staff right now, I don't think we'll be getting podcasts from Carlton and Damon for a while, but last year I found they really helped.It doesn't seem to me there was any writing involved with the Lost podcasts: they basically just ad libbed the entire thing (other than reading questions from fans). Of course they may well not do them for other reasons: solidarity, or else because they're upset these first 8 shows are being aired when they didn't want them to be.

[Bierboy]

Didn't the funeral director ask Jack if he was friend or family and Jack replied, "Neither"? It seems to me that if it was either Michael or Walt in the casket, he would have made the superficial assumption that Jack was not family and therefore wouldn't have asked that question. I think it's more likely to be Ben or possibly Sawyer.

Rob

If he had said "Friend of the family?" then it would be completely different.

[Turtleboy]

I thought he simply said "Friend or family?"

I think that guy's point was, b/c Walter and Michael are black, the funeral director wouldn't have asked Jack, who is white, if he was family.

:rolleyes:

[Bierboy]

I think that guy's point was, b/c Walter and Michael are black, the funeral director wouldn't have asked Jack, who is white, if he was family.

:rolleyes:

Yeah, I realized that after first posting my reply, so I edited. Thanks.

[ADG]

I agree, except that they should have chosen a more scientifically accurate way to do it. :)

Let's see - these people are on an island that has the power to either cure infirmities and illnesses or perhaps even prevent them all together and is inhabited by a smoke "monster", a polar bear, an invisible monster, ghosts or resurrections of dead people, and a group of people who worked for a secret company that was running experiments on life extension and controlling a magnetic power that could potentially have destroyed the world. Some people are endowed with extraordinary powers (seeing into the future, making comic book characters come to life, apparently never aging, seeing and hearing a mysterious figure, etc.) while others travel back and forth by submarine and kidnap people from the "normal world" - and we're worried about the scientifically accurate way to kill someone???? :D :D

[jamesbobo]

I think that guy's point was, b/c Walter and Michael are black, the funeral director wouldn't have asked Jack, who is white, if he was family.

:rolleyes:


In-laws?

[Paperboy2003]

Wouldn't the base have stopped flooding at some point anyway? Where would all the air in there have gone?


And to take that tought out a few steps further, the door opened out, so technically, since they had tanks there, Desmond couldve jgotten a few and just had Charlie open the door (outward) and they coludve each grabbed a tank and been fine.

Would've been a lot less dramatic though...oh well

[TiVotion]

I'm convinced that the person in the casket is in fact John Locke.

As posted elsewhere, screen caps of the newspaper clipping that Jack was reading off the island have been transcripted to read that a man by the name of John Lantham (I believe that was the spelling) was discovered dead in a downtown loft. This was the newspaper clipping that drove Jack to the funeral parlor.

My theory is this. We all know that Locke didn't want to leave the island. For yet unknown reasons, somehow, some way, perhaps Jack tricked, coerced, or outright forced Locke to leave the island with them. Perhaps this is after the two "camps" were at odds. Jack and Locke have a somewhat adversarial relationship. Maybe that relationship was bad until the very end, when Jack finally gets Locke to leave against his will.

Locke gets back to the "real world", and his legs don't work anymore, either all at once, or gradually, he reverts to being unable to walk. He shuns the publicity that the survivors are getting (he wouldn't have wanted it), so he changes his last name to try to blend in (Lantham?). Finally, he either kills himself out of grief...or...who knows. This would explain why the newspaper didn't have it reported as more of a "big deal" (Locke was incognito), AND would explain why Jack is a little bit greiving over the incident - he feels guilty for "forcing" Locke off the island. When the man at the funeral parlor asks Jack "Friend or family?", he says "neither", because he didn't really consider him a friend given their adversarial relationship.

And for the record, I don't believe that the casket is a "mini casket", so it doesn't have to contain a small person. I think it's a normal casket, and the angles don't really do it justice.

[MickeS]

Actually the guy also says "I'm here to rescue you."

That was from the preview for next week.

[sushikitten]

Regarding the talk about Charlie being able to survive due to air pressure and equalization and all that being sloppy writing... That's assuming HE knew those scientific properties. If Charlie didn't know about those or understand it, or even just in the panic of the moment (added to the thought that he had already accepted his death), it makes perfect sense that he would shut the door to prevent harm to Desmond.

[wprager]

When the "lawyer" asks Hurley "Are they still alive", was I the only one who didn't think he was asking about Dharma Initiative people? I thought he was talking about The Others. The ones who have been there since who-knows-when. Why did I think that? No idea, just a gut feel.

[thenightfly42]

The helicopter seemed to do OK when flying over the island. Was the Looking Glass Station not just a signal blocker, but also an electronics jammer of some sort?

[Turtleboy]

When the "lawyer" asks Hurley "Are they still alive", was I the only one who didn't think he was asking about Dharma Initiative people? I thought he was talking about The Others. The ones who have been there since who-knows-when. Why did I think that? No idea, just a gut feel.

Dharma, or the Others, or the people on the boat. . . I dunno.

[madscientist]

Regarding the talk about Charlie being able to survive due to air pressure and equalization and all that being sloppy writing... That's assuming HE knew those scientific properties. If Charlie didn't know about those or understand it, or even just in the panic of the moment (added to the thought that he had already accepted his death), it makes perfect sense that he would shut the door to prevent harm to Desmond.Whether Charlie knows about the scientific properties or not, they are still scientific properties. They will save even the ignorant!! :p

The "bad writing" part is not Charlie closing the door, but rather the entire closed-off water-tight compartment filling with water through the porthole. That is not possible.

I don't care, really, but I do see why people are saying it's sloppy writing.

[Fl_Gulfer]

I think the wife and I are giving up. we have no idea whats going on. We have seen every episode and are more lost now than last year. We just can't understand why the show would go into the future unless they are just dragging out the show for the money. I hope you all enjoy this nutty show.

[Mike Farrington]

When the "lawyer" asks Hurley "Are they still alive", was I the only one who didn't think he was asking about Dharma Initiative people? I thought he was talking about The Others. The ones who have been there since who-knows-when. Why did I think that? No idea, just a gut feel.Really? I thought he was talking about the bodies in the row houses.

[MickeS]

I think the wife and I are giving up. we have no idea whats going on. We have seen every episode and are more lost now than last year. We just can't understand why the show would go into the future unless they are just dragging out the show for the money. I hope you all enjoy this nutty show.

We do! :)

[hefe]

I think the wife and I are giving up. we have no idea whats going on. We have seen every episode and are more lost now than last year. We just can't understand why the show would go into the future unless they are just dragging out the show for the money. I hope you all enjoy this nutty show.

I think you take that view if you view getting off the island as the "end point" or "goal" of the show. It's clear now that it isn't, and I think that's pretty cool, actually.

[pjenkins]

I think the wife and I are giving up. we have no idea whats going on. We have seen every episode and are more lost now than last year. We just can't understand why the show would go into the future unless they are just dragging out the show for the money. I hope you all enjoy this nutty show.


i'm not giving up, b/c there isn't much else on TV really :)

that said, the show is pretty crappy after a stellar start from my point of view. but i've watched much worse, for much longer, so i'll stick with it to see if there is something worthwhile in the end :cool:

[Delta13]

2 questions that have no known answer yet, but here goes.

- Why couldn't Jack do surgery right away after he came back? He was only gone for 90 days + the time of these episodes (which can't be very long, time-wise). Was he in the surgery minor leagues or something?

- If the bad guys make the Oceanic 6 promise not to say anything about the island as a condition of leaving, why let anyone leave? What's in it for the "bad guys"?

Don't forget that Christian was also on Flight 815. Him being one of the 6 would explain Jack's little rant in "Looking Glass" as well as the prescription. Might be a trick explaining how he got dead first in Australia and is now alive, but this is Lost after all. :p

[DevdogAZ]

The acceptance of his fate was good writing. They way they had him die was sloppy and amateurish.
It's not bad writing. As Bryanmc said, it's brilliant writing because he didn't HAVE to die. He could have cheated death again, just like he already had many times. But this time he accepted his fate and made the choice to let karma catch up to him so he could save Claire, Aaron and the rest of the Losties.
I think the wife and I are giving up. we have no idea whats going on. We have seen every episode and are more lost now than last year. We just can't understand why the show would go into the future unless they are just dragging out the show for the money. I hope you all enjoy this nutty show.
I can't understand that view at all. I think these last two episodes have added so much intrigue to the series, I can't even imagine someone being turned off by them. Before, we all just wondered about the island and whether they'd ever get off. Now we have not only those questions, but why/how/who got off and why/how/if they're going to get back.

Besides, don't forget that the overall arc of the show was planned out from the beginning, so if you're getting turned off by the show simply because you think they're making it up as they go, you're dead wrong.

[Rob Helmerichs]

It's not bad writing. As Bryanmc said, it's brilliant writing because he didn't HAVE to die. He could have cheated death again, just like he already had many times. But this time he accepted his fate and made the choice to let karma catch up to him so he could save Claire, Aaron and the rest of the Losties.
But the point they're trying to make is that he COULDN'T have died unless he ducked down under the air and sucked water, because the air would never have left the room above the level of the window. That part is indeed bad writing, unless they have an explanation for why the laws of physics don't apply on the island. (And speaking as somebody who has ENORMOUS respect for the writers of this show, my guess is that in this case they don't have an explanation; they just don't understand the laws of physics well enough to write the scene well.)

[balboa dave]

But the point they're trying to make is that he COULDN'T have died unless he ducked down under the air and sucked water, because the air would never have left the room above the level of the window. That part is indeed bad writing, unless they have an explanation for why the laws of physics don't apply on the island. (And speaking as somebody who has ENORMOUS respect for the writers of this show, my guess is that in this case they don't have an explanation; they just don't understand the laws of physics well enough to write the scene well.)
Isn't this unnecessary rush to judgement based on the assumption that the grenade blast only blasted the porthole open and didn't rupture something else, say a seam above Charlie, that the camera doesn't see (out of frame)? There doesn't have to be much of one to let the air out.

[smickola]

Anyone notice the drawing that Hurley was doing just before getting his visit from Charlie? An igloo with a guy in a snow suit...looked kind of reminiscent of the ice station guys who reported to Penny about seeing the abnormality after the hatch blew up...

[jamesbobo]

It's possible that the writers strike will end this week. If that happens, what are the chances that all 16 episodes will air as originally planned? I would think quite good.

[cherry ghost]

Anyone notice the drawing that Hurley was doing just before getting his visit from Charlie? An igloo with a guy in a snow suit...looked kind of reminiscent of the ice station guys who reported to Penny about seeing the abnormality after the hatch blew up...

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season4/4x01/normal_4x01cap-0573.jpg

[gchance]

Anyone notice the drawing that Hurley was doing just before getting his visit from Charlie? An igloo with a guy in a snow suit...looked kind of reminiscent of the ice station guys who reported to Penny about seeing the abnormality after the hatch blew up...

I thought of this IMMEDIATELY when I saw it. They didn't do anything with it, but I'm telling you right now, there was a point for it. Don't forget about Chekhov's Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun)...

Greg

[Turtleboy]

I thought of this IMMEDIATELY when I saw it. They didn't do anything with it, but I'm telling you right now, there was a point for it. Don't forget about Chekhov's Gun (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chekhov's_gun)...

Greg

Why would Chekhov use a gun and not a phaser? :confused:

[gchance]

Why would Chekhov use a gun and not a phaser? :confused:

Oh you must be kidding. Anton Chekhov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Chekhov), not Pavel Chekov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Chekov).

If you show a gun in the first act, it must go off by the third act.

Greg

[madscientist]

Isn't this unnecessary rush to judgement based on the assumption that the grenade blast only blasted the porthole open and didn't rupture something else, say a seam above Charlie, that the camera doesn't see (out of frame)? There doesn't have to be much of one to let the air out.I thought of that too but there are some pretty clear views of the porthole and the wall above it when the water is first rushing in, and also after all the water is in, and there doesn't appear to be any damage at all. All the water is coming in through the porthole: there's no other leak visible.

As I said I don't really care: it in no way diminishes my enjoyment of the show. But, the folks who called them on it do have a point.

[mqpickles]

I can't understand that view at all. I think these last two episodes have added so much intrigue to the series, I can't even imagine someone being turned off by them. Before, we all just wondered about the island and whether they'd ever get off. Now we have not only those questions, but why/how/who got off and why/how/if they're going to get back.

Besides, don't forget that the overall arc of the show was planned out from the beginning, so if you're getting turned off by the show simply because you think they're making it up as they go, you're dead wrong.I couldn't agree more. This would be such a strange time to give up on this show.

I know people who called it quits right after the polar bear showed up. I can see that. And I can see people giving up after Season 2, which was really hit or miss. But if you've hung on this long, well, now things are getting good.

I'm frustrated that they're doing 3 16-episode seasons (not accounting for writer's strike) so that we're still more than 2 years from the finale, but I think the show is still great, and even if I didn't, I'd have a hard time giving up now.

What could anyone expect from the season's first episode other than setting up for action the rest of the season?

[Bryanmc]

Actually the guy also says "I'm here to rescue you."


No, he didn't. The last thing that's said is, "Are you Jack?"

Information from previews should be in spoiler tags. ;)

[stellie93]

I just rewatched the ep--it seemed odd to me that when Jack told the guy on the walkie he was from flight 815, the guy didn't register any surprise. Naomi told them that whole story about finding the wreckage and bodies, so was that a lie, or did she just not know everything the other guy knew? Or maybe that was what happened in the press, but they knew it wasn't true.

Also, Hurley seemed to have the power to wish Charlie away--Charlie couldn't stay when he closed his eyes and told him to go. But when he did it to Jacob's cabin, it only moved. And when Jack saw him shooting hoops, he said, "don't you ever miss?" which it seemed like he didn't. Sort of like Walt always getting the roll he wanted when he played backgammon. He seemed to be winning at connect four too, but I assumed it was because he was playing with a zombie--maybe not. So has Hurley brought island power back with him? :confused:

[pjenkins]

I can't understand that view at all. I think these last two episodes have added so much intrigue to the series, I can't even imagine someone being turned off by them. Before, we all just wondered about the island and whether they'd ever get off. Now we have not only those questions, but why/how/who got off and why/how/if they're going to get back..

your new "intrigue" is my "sloppy go nowhere storytelling". to each his own. it's still better than most shows, even with the disjoint writing :)

[gchance]

Also, Hurley seemed to have the power to wish Charlie away--Charlie couldn't stay when he closed his eyes and told him to go. But when he did it to Jacob's cabin, it only moved. And when Jack saw him shooting hoops, he said, "don't you ever miss?" which it seemed like he didn't. Sort of like Walt always getting the roll he wanted when he played backgammon. He seemed to be winning at connect four too, but I assumed it was because he was playing with a zombie--maybe not. So has Hurley brought island power back with him? :confused:

Well, he IS a warrior of sorts where he comes from. That should count for something.

Greg

[BeanMeScot]

IF Ben is the one in the casket, he might have come back because he had to. Remember, the island heals most people, but Ben got cancer on the island. Maybe he has to leave the island to live.

[Bryanmc]

IF Ben is the one in the casket, he might have come back because he had to. Remember, the island heals most people, but Ben got cancer on the island. Maybe he has to leave the island to live.
If all that is true, it didn't work out so well for him, did it? :D

[BeanMeScot]

If all that is true, it didn't work out so well for him, did it? :D

Nope! But didn't the person commit suicide? In which case maybe he didn't want to live anymore away from the island but he couldn't go back there. Both because he would have gotten sick again and it's hard to find the island once you leave it.

[jeff125va]

Nope! But didn't the person commit suicide? In which case maybe he didn't want to live anymore away from the island but he couldn't go back there. Both because he would have gotten sick again and it's hard to find the island once you leave it.
Yes, suicide is a very plausible interpretation of what can be read in the obituary.

I'm still leaning toward it being a character who has yet to be introduced. It just seems unlikely to me that anyone we already know (other than Kate) would have assumed some other identity but Jack and Hurley did not. Actually, Sawyer would be another one but I can't see him passing himself off as a New Yorker.

My theory on Hurley's money: If Naomi's story about them all being found dead is true (true in the sense of the general public believing it to be the case), then his parents inherited the money and squandered it. But I tend to think Naomi was lying, because she lied about being sent by Penny, although I can't even imagine why she or whoever she was working with making up such a thing. Anyway, if she was, then I'm sure they'll have to have been on the island a while longer before Hurley would have been presumed dead.

[jeff125va]

Did Rose and Bernard go with Jack? Lostpedia says that they did. Why would they if they (specifically, Rose) had no intention of leaving the island?

[sushikitten]

Did Rose and Bernard go with Jack? Lostpedia says that they did. Why would they if they (specifically, Rose) had no intention of leaving the island?

Rose has cancer (or something) that went away on the island. They want to stay.

ETA: Oops, I didn't read your post clearly. Did we see who they went with? I know Bernard said to Rose that he would follow her whoever she wanted to go with, but now I don't remember who they went with or if we were shown...

[DancnDude]

I think Rose said something like she didn't want to go with that mad man (referring to Locke).

[woolybugger]

I believe she said something along the lines of "I'm not going ANYWHERE with that man". which surprised me with the whole cancer thing.

[jeff125va]

It doesn't surprise me that she chose Jack over Locke based solely on the two men, just the implication that Jack means leaving the island and Locke means staying.

Speaking of Bernard, I'm surprised that no one (well, Sayid and Jin) said anything about Bernard spilling his guts to the Others. I guess they gave him a break since he'd had a gun pointed at his head, and everything turned out alright.

[TriBruin]

Speaking of Bernard, I'm surprised that no one (well, Sayid and Jin) said anything about Bernard spilling his guts to the Others. I guess they gave him a break since he'd had a gun pointed at his head, and everything turned out alright.

It would do no good for Sayid (or Jin) to spill on Bernard. Bernard is not trained to withstand torture. He is a simple man and, rightly or not, believed he was saving Jin's life by giving out information. Why would Sayid or Jin want to cause even more friction in the group?

[jkeegan]

A few thoughts after a rewatch:

1) At the beginning of the episode, when Hurley was driving the Camaro, he eventually crashes through at least a dozen mirrors, which I thought was interesting.. (again, showing that we're through the looking glass?)..

2) Jack looked up and really took notice exactly when the reporter said that the car was a vintage Camaro.. (to those wondering how Jack immediately knew).. He's got to have seen it, or at least heard Hurley talking about it. (by the way, on my first viewing, as soon as I saw the car from up top, I knew it was Hurley too).

3) I may be crazy, but there's this guy filming Hurley crashing into the mirrors (wearing an orange vest), and I could have sworn it was Hurley's former boss/employee from the chicken place.. Haven't checked imdb though.

4) The line Charlie was saying to Hurley (that he claimed Hurley already knew and didn't want to hear) was "They need you. You know they need you.". Again - gotta wonder which "they" he's talking about.. Losties? Natives? People on the boat? Dharma people? Pieces of the island?

It it the same "they" as the probably-satan-devil-guy-who-had-no-business-cards asked about? (again, was he talking about Losties? Natives? Dharma people?)

Can't wait to see next week.

[jeff125va]

A few thoughts after a rewatch:

3) I may be crazy, but there's this guy filming Hurley crashing into the mirrors (wearing an orange vest), and I could have sworn it was Hurley's former boss/employee from the chicken place.. Haven't checked imdb though.

4) The line Charlie was saying to Hurley (that he claimed Hurley already knew and didn't want to hear) was "They need you. You know they need you.". Again - gotta wonder which "they" he's talking about.. Losties? Natives? People on the boat? Dharma people? Pieces of the island?

It it the same "they" as the probably-satan-devil-guy-who-had-no-business-cards asked about? (again, was he talking about Losties? Natives? Dharma people?)

Can't wait to see next week.
Don't rush off to Santa Rosa just yet... According to Lostpedia, it was in fact Randy Nations (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Randy) with the camera.

I think it's a safe bet that "they" are people we know - there are certainly more than 6 major characters - and that something happened where the six had to make some sort of choice where they were rescued and everyone else was not. I am sure that if that's correct, that there is MUCH more to the story, especially since at this point Hurley and Jack have gone separate ways. Does the fact that Hurley apologized to Jack mean that Jack was right and Locke (and Ben, if he wasn't just making something up to talk them out of getting rescued) was wrong? We don't even really know if their rescue has anything to do with the supposed freighter that Naomi was on or if it ends up being by some other means entirely.

Personally, I'd be surprised if Claire and Aaron aren't among those rescued. And I think that something will happen that results in their rescue that wouldn't have happened if Charlie hadn't died. It's not like he really NEEDED to lock himself in that chamber in order to ensure that the jamming got turned off. He just did it to fulfill Desmond's vision because he believed Desmond when he said that it wouldn't happen otherwise. I think the only reason he locked Desmond out was to prevent Desmond from saving him. I don't see him getting killed off and then it turning out to have been in vain.

[Mabes]

Excellent point!!! :D

My wild guess is that it's Ben. Based solely on Kate's comment last year "why would I go to his funeral."

[jeff125va]

IF Ben is the one in the casket, he might have come back because he had to. Remember, the island heals most people, but Ben got cancer on the island. Maybe he has to leave the island to live.
Did we actually find out that he had cancer? I remember Juliet or Jack saying something about doing a biopsy after the surgery but I don't remember anything about results. And it seemed like a pretty fast recovery from the spinal surgery - I don't think he was in the wheelchair very long.

[Globular]

2 questions that have no known answer yet, but here goes.

- Why couldn't Jack do surgery right away after he came back? He was only gone for 90 days + the time of these episodes (which can't be very long, time-wise). Was he in the surgery minor leagues or something?


Maybe he was declared dead and had to go through red tape to get a medical license again?


- If the bad guys make the Oceanic 6 promise not to say anything about the island as a condition of leaving, why let anyone leave? What's in it for the "bad guys"?


Dunno (yet) :)

[jeff125va]

My wild guess is that it's Ben. Based solely on Kate's comment last year "why would I go to his funeral."
When Kate said that, she emphasized the "I", which to me implied that she had some unique reason(s) for not going that wouldn't apply to Jack. I guess a lot could have happened in between, but I would think that if Ben took on an alias that Jack and Kate wouldn't have known about it.

[DevdogAZ]

I think it's pretty naive of Hurley to think that if he was missing (presumed dead) for 3-4 months, that his estate of over $150 million would be gone. Estates of that size end up in litigation and there's no way it would be settled that quickly. When he returned, he'd basically get it all back, unless he disclaimed it.

[jeff125va]

2 questions that have no known answer yet, but here goes.

- Why couldn't Jack do surgery right away after he came back? He was only gone for 90 days + the time of these episodes (which can't be very long, time-wise). Was he in the surgery minor leagues or something?

- If the bad guys make the Oceanic 6 promise not to say anything about the island as a condition of leaving, why let anyone leave? What's in it for the "bad guys"?

Don't forget that Christian was also on Flight 815. Him being one of the 6 would explain Jack's little rant in "Looking Glass" as well as the prescription. Might be a trick explaining how he got dead first in Australia and is now alive, but this is Lost after all. :p
We really have any idea how long Jack was gone. We don't know for sure that their rescue is imminent as it seems to be in this episode. For all we know the current series of events doesn't work out and they end up being on the island for a year or two. The only date we can tie any post-island events to is the date of the newspaper where Jack sees the obituary: April 7, 2007.

Also, we don't know how much time passed between their return and the events in this episode, nor between their return and Jack's return to work. It may not have been an inability to return to practicing medicine. I think most people go ahead and take a few weeks off after returning home after plane crashes on not-so-deserted islands. :-)

That's a good point if your assumptions is correct, but I've been thinking that it was the Oceanic 6 who had sworn themselves to secrecy. There seems to be a great deal of guilt (on Hurley's part in this episode, and Jack (and to a small degree Kate) later on in "Through the Looking Glass) so it might not be out of coercion that they're not talking.

Christian is dead. Appearing to Jack (assuming it wasn't just hallucinations) is not the same thing as coming back to life and being known to the general public. Jack's references to his father in "Through the Looking Glass" were meant to confuse us as to when it was taking place, and to show us, once we had figured that out, how far off the deep end Jack had gone.

[jeff125va]

I think it's pretty naive of Hurley to think that if he was missing (presumed dead) for 3-4 months, that his estate of over $150 million would be gone. Estates of that size end up in litigation and there's no way it would be settled that quickly. When he returned, he'd basically get it all back, unless he disclaimed it.
Unless he believes Naomi's account that their bodies were found, meaning that they were confirmed dead*, not presumed dead. It might still take some time to settle, but their bodies having been (believed to be) found would certainly have sped things up enough that a reasonable amount of artistic license could make up the difference.

*The use of an upcoming episode title in no way implies any foreknowledge of said episode. :-)

[getreal]

After watching the recap before the episode, it occurred to me that Locke healed from his gunshot wound to the gut in about one day. And he didn't seem to have a big blood stain on his filthy t-shirt when he showed up again. I doubt that he changed shirts in between crawling out of the mass grave of Dharma corpses and throwing the knife into Naomi's back.

I was also expecting Hurley to fall into the mass grave while running away from Jacob and the shack.

[thenightfly42]

I just rewatched the ep--it seemed odd to me that when Jack told the guy on the walkie he was from flight 815, the guy didn't register any surprise. Naomi told them that whole story about finding the wreckage and bodies, so was that a lie, or did she just not know everything the other guy knew? Or maybe that was what happened in the press, but they knew it wasn't true.
Thanks for bringing that up, I noticed that as well buy forgot to raise that question. And in addition to that, why did Naomi lie to her ship just before she died? She knew that death was imminent for her, what's the benefit in not saying "The natives are dangerous, one of 'em knifed me"?

[MickeS]

Thanks for bringing that up, I noticed that as well buy forgot to raise that question. And in addition to that, why did Naomi lie to her ship just before she died? She knew that death was imminent for her, what's the benefit in not saying "The natives are dangerous, one of 'em knifed me"?

Because she used the code "Tell my sister I love her" (or something to that effect) for that. ;)

[Church AV Guy]

As I see it, the "mirror" is the direction the show is now looking. Previously, we had been shown the "present" on the island, and events in the past that forced various people to make decisions. Their actions on the island were in great part a result of decisions and actions from their past. NOW, we are seeing decisions and actions that they are making on the island, and the effects of these on their future. The consequences of past decisions influence what happened on the island, and the decisions that are made on the island influence the future, post-island.

I really don't think that Charlie could possibly have made it through that broken window. His shoulders would never have made it through. This does not excuse the compartment completely filling with water. He knew he was dying, and even made the Catholic "Sign of the Cross" at the end.

Ben told Jack that Naomi and her people have been trying to find the island, and that everyone on the island would be killed. He didn't say that they would die (passive voice) but be killed (active voice). He never said that her people would do the killing though. The assumption is made because the two ideas were voiced together, but it is never definitively stated that Naomi or her people would be the killers. Outsiders (Naomi's people) finding the island could have repercussions resulting in someone else killing the islanders.

Hurley is really good at some games. Wasn't there a ping-pong incident earlier on?

[JYoung]

Hurley is really good at some games. Wasn't there a ping-pong incident earlier on?

Yep. Hugo whupped Sawyer at Ping Pong last year.

[DevdogAZ]

Unless he believes Naomi's account that their bodies were found, meaning that they were confirmed dead*, not presumed dead. It might still take some time to settle, but their bodies having been (believed to be) found would certainly have sped things up enough that a reasonable amount of artistic license could make up the difference.

*The use of an upcoming episode title in no way implies any foreknowledge of said episode. :-)
I don't think it matters whether he was missing or dead. Even if it's clear as a bell who gets the money when he dies, there's still $150 million, and most of it would still be there when he gets back. It's not like his family is going to burn through that much money in a few months.

[IndyJones1023]

Sorry for just jumping in at the end here - but wasn't John shot?

[MickeS]

Sorry for just jumping in at the end here - but wasn't John shot?

It's just a flesh wound.

[jeff125va]

I don't think it matters whether he was missing or dead. Even if it's clear as a bell who gets the money when he dies, there's still $150 million, and most of it would still be there when he gets back. It's not like his family is going to burn through that much money in a few months.
It might still "be there" but being (supposedly) confirmed dead, rather than missing, would speed things up as far as turning it over to the new owners. Even if it did go to his family, if it no longer belonged to him and he made no effort to get it back, then he would be free of it.

Of course, this argument is moot since he could just give it away if he wanted to. But I guess it gave him a sense of relief believing that the "paperwork" had probably already been completed.

[ced6]

Okay, so just a few random votes that I think weren't already covered.

1. This may have been mentioned in previous threads, but it's not in this thread to the best of my knowledge - is it possible that the "he" that Kate referred to in last season's finale (when meeting Jack at the airport) is her son. I seem to vaguely remember some sort of indication last season that Kate is pregnant.

2. As for why Desmond doesn't go with Locke. Is it possible that, given his assumed knowledge that once it's time for you to die, it can't be avoided, he decided to go with Jack's crew because it's a chance to be rescued, and if he dies then it was unavoidable anyway.

3. Based on the link to the video that was posted earlier, I think the eye in Jacob's cabin was Jacob's. The noses look similar. Which means that the figure in the chair is the smoke monster? Or something else?

4. I'm confused by those who say Jack didn't drink in the flashbacks, only in the flash-forwards. Well, we know he was drinking on the plane before it crashed. Wasn't there also some issues with alcohol after his wife left him?

[thenightfly42]

Sorry for just jumping in at the end here - but wasn't John shot?
The general assumption was that the bullet went through the spot where is kidney should have been - but remember, his dad stole it from him. Plus, people heal really quickly on this island.

[jeff125va]

Okay, so just a few random votes that I think weren't already covered.

1. This may have been mentioned in previous threads, but it's not in this thread to the best of my knowledge - is it possible that the "he" that Kate referred to in last season's finale (when meeting Jack at the airport) is her son. I seem to vaguely remember some sort of indication last season that Kate is pregnant.

2. As for why Desmond doesn't go with Locke. Is it possible that, given his assumed knowledge that once it's time for you to die, it can't be avoided, he decided to go with Jack's crew because it's a chance to be rescued, and if he dies then it was unavoidable anyway.
Juliet and Ben had discussed getting a "sample" from Kate to do a pregnancy test, that's all. Well, that and sperm counts are about 5x normal on the island, we know that Sawyer isn't sterile and it seems unlikely that they'd been using birth control. In any case, if she got pregnant during one of the encounters we've seen between her and Sawyer, that baby would be about 2-1/2 years old during the flash-forward scene with her and Jack. I can't see her leaving the baby alone, and even if she did, "wondering where I am" doesn't seem like the appropriate phrase to describe the child's state of mind.

It could be as simple as Desmond feeling similarly about Locke as Rose did. She's adamant about never wanting to leave, but still went with Jack. I think the incident with Locke's refusal to enter the code might have been enough for him to question Locke's judgment. Plus, while I think he respects Charlie's warning, he has to be wondering about Penny's connection to the Naomi and the freighter people. She did have the picture after all, my guess is he wants to find out what's going on.

[jeff125va]

The general assumption was that the bullet went through the spot where is kidney should have been - but remember, his dad stole it from him. Plus, people heal really quickly on this island.
That's right, I forgot about the kidney speculation - I've just been thinking about him seeing Walt and the island healing thing. I think we'd have gotten an explanation about that by now but given everything that's intervened it doesn't seem like there'd be any reason to bring it up since they haven't already. He and Ben have been in each other's presence and neither has mentioned anything about it, IIRC.

[DevdogAZ]

Okay, so just a few random votes that I think weren't already covered.

1. This may have been mentioned in previous threads, but it's not in this thread to the best of my knowledge - is it possible that the "he" that Kate referred to in last season's finale (when meeting Jack at the airport) is her son. I seem to vaguely remember some sort of indication last season that Kate is pregnant.

Yes, it's been speculated many times that she was referring to a son.

And there was an exchange between Kate and Sawyer in last season's finale where she started to tell him that Juliet had come to their side of the island to do a pregnancy test on Sun, and had done one on Kate as well. Before she got a chance to tell him what the results were, Sawyer snarled something like "I hope it was negative" leaving Kate standing there looking shocked and hurt. So it's possible she was about to tell him she was pregnant, but didn't get the chance.

[milo99]

Also, we don't know how much time passed between their return and the events in this episode, nor between their return and Jack's return to work. It may not have been an inability to return to practicing medicine. I think most people go ahead and take a few weeks off after returning home after plane crashes on not-so-deserted islands. :-)


along these lines, why the heck is everyone here assuming that this episode's flash forwards are BEFORE last year's finale's flash forwards?? I figured it was AFTER.

And the whole deal about Jack back to doing doctor things that Hurley asked, was that he has now stopped drinking and gotten back into his life. This would also make sense that Jack has accepted that they are never going back.

That is, in the Looking Glass, Jack was drunk, still looking to go back. But in this episode, he has accepted that they can't go back, sobered up, and is practicing medicine again.

am i missing something??

did someone else already post this and i just missed it?

[Peter000]

I was just assuming the opposite. That this was before Jack went off the deep end and grew the beard. I don't know if there was some sort of time reference in the flash forwards or not, like on the TV screen or something.

[jeff125va]

along these lines, why the heck is everyone here assuming that this episode's flash forwards are BEFORE last year's finale's flash forwards?? I figured it was AFTER.

And the whole deal about Jack back to doing doctor things that Hurley asked, was that he has now stopped drinking and gotten back into his life. This would also make sense that Jack has accepted that they are never going back.

That is, in the Looking Glass, Jack was drunk, still looking to go back. But in this episode, he has accepted that they can't go back, sobered up, and is practicing medicine again.

am i missing something??

did someone else already post this and i just missed it?
I don't think that people normally go from Jack's condition in the season finale to his sober condition in this episode, but still have a glass of vodka and OJ first thing in the morning. I think for most recovering alcoholics, a drink in the morning like that would be the first of many. I think that, and the "thinking of growing a beard" remark were hints of things to come. As for being adamant about not going back, I think he was at the time but the encounter with Hurley is what put him on the path to wanting to go back, as in the meeting with Kate. As for "practicing medicine again I took Hurley to mean "again since returning home from the island. Also, Jack's comments about the repoters leaving him alone and people asking for autographs made it seem that his "fame" had just started to fade, unlike Looking Glass where people only seemed to recognize him because he'd been in the news again after the car crash.

[ced6]

I assumed the Hurley flash-forwards happened before the Jack flash-forwards from the finale because of Jack's statement that he might grow a beard. Hurley then stated that Jack would look weird with a beard. Now, it's possible that Jack had grown a beard and shaved it off already, and Hurley had never seen it, but I just assumed this was a hint to the viewers as to the timeline.

Oh, and how do we know that the Jack and Kate meeting was 2.5 years after they got off the island? Did they say this or is this just speculation (sorry, can't remember).

[jeff125va]

Right, but the guy asking didn't seem to consider it a possibility that maybe she lived for a while on the island after it crashed. He asked Hurley if he met her on the plane. He didn't ask, "Hey Hugo, did you live with Anna Lucia for a while on the island but she just didn't make it off the island?"

I just interpret the wording of his question to mean that everyone thinks the Oceanic 6 are the only ones to survive the initial crash and that the big secret that the Oceanic 6 are hiding is the fact that there are other people alive on the island.

I'm reading a lot into it I know but that's what these threads are for right? :)
I think that's clearly what they're suggesting. The phrasing of the question and Hurley's lie and hurrying to change the subject leave me no doubt. Whatever it is that they're keeping secret certainly had nothing to do with A-L herself, since she was dead. Hurley's a nice guy; I think he would have shared the info with the cop if it weren't an integral part of the secret they're hiding.

[jeff125va]

I assumed the Hurley flash-forwards happened before the Jack flash-forwards from the finale because of Jack's statement that he might grow a beard. Hurley then stated that Jack would look weird with a beard. Now, it's possible that Jack had grown a beard and shaved it off already, and Hurley had never seen it, but I just assumed this was a hint to the viewers as to the timeline.

Oh, and how do we know that the Jack and Kate meeting was 2.5 years after they got off the island? Did they say this or is this just speculation (sorry, can't remember).
The newspaper in which Jack found the obituary was dated April 5, 2007. He was flying home April 7, which was a Saturday (he had been flying to various places every Friday night). The current on-island date is December 23, 2004. So actually if Kate is pregnant the baby would only be about 1-1/2, not 2-1/2, sorry.

[milo99]

I don't think that people normally go from Jack's condition in the season finale to his sober condition in this episode, but still have a glass of vodka and OJ first thing in the morning. I think for most recovering alcoholics, a drink in the morning like that would be the first of many. I think that, and the "thinking of growing a beard" remark were hints of things to come. As for being adamant about not going back, I think he was at the time but the encounter with Hurley is what put him on the path to wanting to go back, as in the meeting with Kate. As for "practicing medicine again I took Hurley to mean "again since returning home from the island. Also, Jack's comments about the repoters leaving him alone and people asking for autographs made it seem that his "fame" had just started to fade, unlike Looking Glass where people only seemed to recognize him because he'd been in the news again after the car crash.

see that's interesting because i took the beard comment as Jack thinking to grow it back (that he kinda missed it from his alcy days), and chuckled at Hugo's comment because while sporting it, he was a drunk and did kinda look bad with it (and Hugo hadn't seen him with it).

but that's interesting.. especially regarding the fame. i totally forgot about that.. he got recognized in the previous episode.. in the hospital was it? shoulda watched it again before this premiere :)

[jeff125va]

see that's interesting because i took the beard comment as Jack thinking to grow it back (that he kinda missed it from his alcy days), and chuckled at Hugo's comment because while sporting it, he was a drunk and did kinda look bad with it (and Hugo hadn't seen him with it).

but that's interesting.. especially regarding the fame. i totally forgot about that.. he got recognized in the previous episode.. in the hospital was it? shoulda watched it again before this premiere :)
He was in line at the pharmacy trying to get the prescription refilled. But it wasn't until he was in an argument with the pharmacist and was drawing attention that the guy recognized him. That didn't make it seem as though reporters were just starting to leave him alone.

As for the humor, I thought it was just because growing a beard is what someone would do while stranded on a deserted island. Not particularly funny, which is why I think it was really just a device to establish a time sequence.

FWIW, Lostpedia says that this one happened first, although no specific dates are known.

[Steve_Martin]

Maybe the guy in the coffin is some parallel time-travelling version of Jack himself...

[stellie93]

Maybe part of the reason they lied about how everyone died is that EVERYONE DIED! If they tried to explain what happened to them--Nikki and Paulo, Anna, Libby, Charlie, Boone and Shannon etc.-they start to sound like a bunch of crazy murderers. Especially if more die in the rescue attempt. Maybe there aren't any other people from the plane who want to be found. Locke and Rose might still be there, and the Others, but a lot of people are gone in suspicious circumstances. Especially if you don't understand "island magic." ;)

[Church AV Guy]

If everyone had died, then why the messages "They need you"? I fear that "the six" made some kind of deal to get off the island leaving everyone else there. The terms of that deal included a demand that no one else ever know that there were any other survivors. Jack asks Hurley if he was thinking of telling. As soon as Jack was satisfied that Hurley was going to maintain his silence, he left in a big hurry. Whatever deal they made, it's eating at Hurley's sanity, and in the future, it's triggering Jack's alcoholism, (not solely responsible, but a crucial, contributing factor). I sense, Kate isn't too far behind.

Off topic:
Was that model airplane in the safety deposit box ever fully explained? If I remember, Kate killed at least one person to get that plastic model.

Didn't Ben say that he had a machine that would give you whatever you wanted? Were there conditions to it's use? Maybe "The Six" used it to get home, somehow. Locke joked that the box had better be big enough to fit a replacement submarine, but having a sub wasn't what Ben wanted, at that moment, he wanted it gone, and Locke did that for him.

[jeff125va]

If everyone had died, then why the messages "They need you"? I fear that "the six" made some kind of deal to get off the island leaving everyone else there. The terms of that deal included a demand that no one else ever know that there were any other survivors. Jack asks Hurley if he was thinking of telling. As soon as Jack was satisfied that Hurley was going to maintain his silence, he left in a big hurry. Whatever deal they made, it's eating at Hurley's sanity, and in the future, it's triggering Jack's alcoholism, (not solely responsible, but a crucial, contributing factor). I sense, Kate isn't too far behind.

Off topic:
Was that model airplane in the safety deposit box ever fully explained? If I remember, Kate killed at least one person to get that plastic model.

Didn't Ben say that he had a machine that would give you whatever you wanted? Were there conditions to it's use? Maybe "The Six" used it to get home, somehow. Locke joked that the box had better be big enough to fit a replacement submarine, but having a sub wasn't what Ben wanted, at that moment, he wanted it gone, and Locke did that for him.
I'm with you on the "they need you" making no sense whatsoever if the rest of them died. Why would Jack or Hurley even be thinking of going back if everyone else were dead? I'm not convinced about too many details beyond that, but all of them being dead doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

But I disagree about Kate. She didn't seem to be nearly as bothered about things as Jack was. She seemed more like Jack seemed in this episode - saying there was no need to go back. Of course, something could trigger a change in her, but I just don't think we've seen any indication of that yet.

I don't think we were ever given any conclusive reason to believe that Ben should be taken literally about that box.

Yes, the toy plane (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Toy_airplane)was fully explained. Well, I certainly can't think of any significant unanswered questions. She shot her three accomplices but as far as we know didn't kill any of them.

[ced6]

Also, why would they have to lie about everyone dying if they were actually dead? They were in a plane crash. No one would assume they were murderers, just that they were the only ones that survived the crash.

[Fool Me Twice]

Didn't Ben say that he had a machine that would give you whatever you wanted?Ben then said the "box" was just a metaphor. Cruse and Lindelof have said the same thing, but they've been known to mislead people from time to time and have also said "the entire island is a magic box". http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Box

On the Blu-ray Lost S3 DVD Cruse and Lindelof mentioned that Cooper was kidnapped, drugged, and brought to the island by submarine.

[jeff125va]

Also, why would they have to lie about everyone dying if they were actually dead? They were in a plane crash. No one would assume they were murderers, just that they were the only ones that survived the crash.
Yes but we know they didn't die in the crash. We seem to agree that they most likely didn't die so the point is somewhat moot, but if they had died then it seems that it would have been a consequence of whatever the Six did to ensure their own rescue, so they would have something to lie about. Not murder necessarily, but something.

However, evidently not everyone believes their story that they were the only survivors, hence Hurley's visitor in the hospital. He evidently doesn't think they were murderers since he seems to believe that "they" are still alive, but he clearly doesn't believe they were the only survivors of the crash. Which sort of begs the question, how plausible is it that in a crash that killed probably over 100 people (~48 beach survivors, ~23 tailies, however many who actually did die), that 6 of them got through it just fine? If the story that the Oceanic Six told people is what we are speculating it is, I'd be surprised that more people don't question it.

[jeff125va]

Ben then said the "box" was just a metaphor. Cruse and Lindelof have said the same thing, but they've been known to mislead people from time to time and have also said "the entire island is a magic box". http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Box

On the Blu-ray Lost S3 DVD Cruse and Lindelof mentioned that Cooper was kidnapped, drugged, and brought to the island by submarine.
I think we were able to surmise that from what Cooper said in that episode, but I guess you never know if a narrator is reliable in this show.

[Philosofy]

I haven't read the whole thread, but can someone refresh my memory on what the coffin was?

My guess for the Oceanic Six are the ones they highlighted in the recap episode:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Locke
Sayid

Oh, and was this the first season that didn't start with a closeup of an eye?

[DancnDude]

I haven't read the whole thread, but can someone refresh my memory on what the coffin was?

In the finale, Jack went to a funeral parlor for a viewing. The funeral directior said that no one showed up and Jack was the only one. He also asked Jack if he was "friend or family" but Jack told him neither. The casket was closed, so we have no idea who was in there.

Later on, Jack asked Kate if she had heard about the death. He thought she would have been to the ceremony but she looked shocked saying something to Jack like "why would I go to the funeral?".

[jeff125va]

I haven't read the whole thread, but can someone refresh my memory on what the coffin was?

My guess for the Oceanic Six are the ones they highlighted in the recap episode:
Jack
Kate
Hurley
Sawyer
Locke
Sayid

Oh, and was this the first season that didn't start with a closeup of an eye?

Yes. Also the first season premiere where the off-island scenes were not Jack-centric.

Jack and Hurley are confirmed barring some pretty convoluted false narration. Maybe Kate, but it begs a lot of questions as to how she avoided prosecution. Of course, not counting her begs the question as to how she made it back, so who knows. I'd be surprised if Locke came back. Sayid I could see. I have a hard time not including Sun and Jin.

[rondotcom]

Oh you must be kidding. Anton Chekhov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Chekhov), not Pavel Chekov (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Chekov).

If you show a gun in the first act, it must go off by the third act.

Greg

SO is Anton PAvel's father or brother. If father, would he not have used the predecessor of the phaser the disruptor? If brother I suppose he could favor a photon weapon of some kind.

[JYoung]

Jack and Hurley are confirmed barring some pretty convoluted false narration. Maybe Kate, but it begs a lot of questions as to how she avoided prosecution. Of course, not counting her begs the question as to how she made it back, so who knows. I'd be surprised if Locke came back. Sayid I could see. I have a hard time not including Sun and Jin.

Again, Kate could have been returned to the mainland with the condition that her arrest warrants would be "taken care of" as long as she kept silent.
Or they could have given her a new identity....

[jeff125va]

Again, Kate could have been returned to the mainland with the condition that her arrest warrants would be "taken care of" as long as she kept silent.
Or they could have given her a new identity....
There are lots of plausible explanations. Actually, while I think it would be much more "lost-esque" that she isn't one of the six, I think that would be more difficult to explain, given what we know at this time. Their return was evidently very high profile, so I can't imagine she took on the identity of one of the other survivors. And it certainly would have been known to the Feds that she'd been on the flight. Only thing I can think of is that they hid her somehow on their way back.

Either way, my point is simply that her status as an Oceanic Six member is uncertain.

[TheMerk]

Either way, my point is simply that her status as an Oceanic Six member is uncertain.

Agreed. Kate cannot be one of the Oceanic 6. No way would she be pardoned or given a new identity just for being in a plane crash. I'm not going to go into details, but personal experience tells me that the law doesn't cut you any slack, even when you've been in an unfortunate circumstance like a plane crash.

[chavez]

but personal experience tells me that the law doesn't cut you any slack, even when you've been in an unfortunate circumstance like a plane crash.

does personal experience tell you that smoke monsters exist? it's a tv show. it's entirely plausible that kate had strings pulled for immunity from prosecution.

[TheMerk]

does personal experience tell you that smoke monsters exist? it's a tv show. it's entirely plausible that kate had strings pulled for immunity from prosecution.

I realized the inherit contradiction as I wrote it. Here's how I rationalized it:

The supernatural things that we've been shown have happened on the island: visions (Walt, Christian Shepard, Horse, etc.), the Smoke Monster, Patchy's apparent 9 lives. I'm fine with all of those things because it's a TV show, and weird stuff happens on the island.

Off island though, suspension of disbelief is less of a necessity. Yes, Hurley used the numbers to win the lottery, and Walt can make wierd stuff happen, but by and large, the real world on Lost plays by the same rules as the real world that we are in.

Count me in the Kate is not one of the Oceanic 6 camp...

[jeff125va]

Agreed. Kate cannot be one of the Oceanic 6. No way would she be pardoned or given a new identity just for being in a plane crash. I'm not going to go into details, but personal experience tells me that the law doesn't cut you any slack, even when you've been in an unfortunate circumstance like a plane crash.
It doesn't sound like we actually agree. I said it's uncertain, you seem certain that she isn't. There are other possibilities besides those you mentioned, including, I'm sure, some that we haven't seen enough yet to be able to even think of.

[Steve_Martin]

Off island though, suspension of disbelief is less of a necessity. Yes, Hurley used the numbers to win the lottery, and Walt can make wierd stuff happen, but by and large, the real world on Lost plays by the same rules as the real world that we are in.

Count me in the Kate is not one of the Oceanic 6 camp...


Hmm, I still think there's some time travel involved.

[Philosofy]

This isn't a spoiler, but in the preview for next week, I caught site of a short asian actor who seemed very famliar: I'm positive he played a mental patient, and helped a main character escape, but I can't remember the show (or movie.) Was it the final Journeyman?

edit: he wasn't playing a mental patient on Lost, just in the show I remembered.

[Steve_Martin]

To me, the guy at the mental facility that told Hurley someone was looking at him looked like Hurley's imaginary friend Dave, but with hair.

[ced6]

This isn't a spoiler, but in the preview for next week, I caught site of a short asian actor who seemed very famliar: I'm positive he played a mental patient, and helped a main character escape, but I can't remember the show (or movie.) Was it the final Journeyman?

edit: he wasn't playing a mental patient on Lost, just in the show I remembered.

I think he was on Burn Notice. He played the guy who was house-sitting and his girlfriend thought it was his house. I believe she was kidnapped for ransom, though I don't remember the details.

[MickeS]

I keep thinking about the theory linked to earlier in the thread (I'm spoilerizing because I like the theory so much and don't want those who would like to be left completely in the dark see it, in case it's true :)):that when they were taken off the island, the events that led them to the island (Kate murdering her dad, Jack "ratting out" his dad, Hurley winning the lottery etc) have been erased. They have been given a second chance.
But for some reason, it just doesn't work for them. That's why Jack needs to go back, but can't - he realizes that getting the do-over is a curse, not a blessing.
I think it's a really cool theory, though I'm not sure if it would work.

[avery]

Gee... I was just about to make comments really similar to the ones MickeS made above! I think it's a pretty intriguing premise.

Also, regarding all the talk about what kind of a secret deal did the Oceanic 6 make, in return for being rescued... The freighter people obviously would want their real objective for coming to the island (whatever that is exactly) to be concealed. I'd think that covering their tracks would have to be a factor in *the Deal*, in addition to any other terms.(like who was alive/what went on)

[Rob Helmerichs]

...assuming it's the freighter people who got them off the island...

[jkeegan]

12.5 hours left...

[woolybugger]

12.5 hours left...

YAY!!!!! :D

[jeff125va]

...assuming it's the freighter people who got them off the island...
And that there was a "deal." They may have just done something so unspeakable that they made a pact among themselves never to tell anyone. Not that I think they would have done something like that unless they were facing a nearly impossible moral quandary, just saying that the reason they're keeping a secret might not have been something imposed upon them.

As for the theory MickeS mentioned, I sure hope not. I like the level of supernaturalness that the show has, especially the way it's been given to us in small doses, and usually with the possibility that there is indeed a rational explanation behind it (which there sometimes turns out to be). But something like that would just be completely over the top in terms of suspension of disbelief.

[betts4]

YAY!!!!! :D

Or is it "Yea!!" :D

Either way - I am ready!!!!

[betts4]

I keep thinking about the theory linked to earlier in the thread (I'm spoilerizing because I like the theory so much and don't want those who would like to be left completely in the dark see it, in case it's true :)):that when they were taken off the island, the events that led them to the island (Kate murdering her dad, Jack "ratting out" his dad, Hurley winning the lottery etc) have been erased. They have been given a second chance.
But for some reason, it just doesn't work for them. That's why Jack needs to go back, but can't - he realizes that getting the do-over is a curse, not a blessing.
I think it's a really cool theory, though I'm not sure if it would work.

It is a cool theory and would explain a few of the things we all wondered about.

I have found with Lost I am going to think about it all just for so long and then sit back and enjoy the ride. The twists and turns and tosses of new stuff make this show so much fun!

[jkeegan]

As for the theory MickeS mentioned, I sure hope not. I like the level of supernaturalness that the show has, especially the way it's been given to us in small doses, and usually with the possibility that there is indeed a rational explanation behind it (which there sometimes turns out to be). But something like that would just be completely over the top in terms of suspension of disbelief...plus, the real problem that would cause for me is.. (well I guess I'll continue the spoiler tags)
.. why they remember anything..

If things in their lives changed to keep them from arriving on the island, then why do they even know each other, and why are they the Oceanic Six? Even if you said the six of them now all fell in a raft mid-free-fall and didn't even see the island (which is now the only way they'd know each other and still be the famous Oceanic Six AND not get on the island in the first place), then why would they think there was a "they" to get back to?
Plus, Jack said to Kate that it was a mistake to leave.. They left - they'd been there and they left. Hurley remembers Charlie diving down to the looking glass!

[cwoody222]

Maybe Mephisto erased stuff :)

(Spider-Man reference)

Forgive me for not going back thru all the pages but as this week's ABC.com mini-movie been discussed here yet? It's got what I consider to be a pretty major reveal.


Jack's father is shown on the island - sans shoes - sorta Charlie-ghost-like - at the time of the crash and sends Walt's dog to wake Jack up. Meaning that perhaps Jack's dad was not merely a figment of Jack's imagination in season 1. If so, it brings some validation to the theory that Charlie also just isn't in Hurley's mind and Hurley did see Christian in Jacob's chair.

And maybe Jack continues to see him off-island which is why he mentions him being "alive" in the season 3 finale.

Of course, the way we Jack's eye it COULD be all his dream :)

[gchance]

Forgive me for not going back thru all the pages but as this week's ABC.com mini-movie been discussed here yet? It's got what I consider to be a pretty major reveal.


It was discussed in this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=373966&highlight=mobisode).

Greg

[SocratesJohnson]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, i did a search and couldn't find anything. Anyone else notice on the commercial for this weeks episode, (and presumably all commercials) at the end when the Lost logo comes up with the island in the background, there is a reflection of a city skyline in the water instead of a reflection of the island.

[Mike Farrington]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, i did a search and couldn't find anything. Anyone else notice on the commercial for this weeks episode, (and presumably all commercials) at the end when the Lost logo comes up with the island in the background, there is a reflection of a city skyline in the water instead of a reflection of the island.Yes, I noticed that too and was wondering what it meant.... But I never delved into it. A search of Lospedia for "skyline" doesn't turn up anything about it.

Edit:
I just turned up two threads about it at the Lostpedia forums:
http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=8936
http://forum.lostpedia.com/showthread.php?t=8428

I didn't even realize there were forums over there. I just thought it was a wiki and some blogs.

[stellie93]

What is abc.com's mini movie?

[gchance]

What is abc.com's mini movie?

It's the "mobisodes" that were originally sent to cell phones but were placed on the web later.

All of them are here (http://lostmobisodes.blogspot.com/). If you watch them, do yourself a favor and watch in order. Not that it matters I suppose, but you'll want to wait for #13.

Greg

[sonnik]

Forgive me if this has been discussed before, i did a search and couldn't find anything. Anyone else notice on the commercial for this weeks episode, (and presumably all commercials) at the end when the Lost logo comes up with the island in the background, there is a reflection of a city skyline in the water instead of a reflection of the island.

I think that's just ABC's marketing of a season that covers island life vs. return to the civilization life.

I've seen some speculation in this thread about the timelime of return of Oceanic six. All we know is that it's sometime between December 2004 and April 2007. (The last known reference to time is a few episodes before the season finale, someome said they crashed "three months ago" - the printout in the hatch revealed this to September 22, 2004 - the same as the show's premiere date).

I'm suspecting that the writers will soon intro an episode with something with a caption like "two years later" - where we are lead to believe that the Locke Faction and the Jack Faction seperate further. Perhaps the "Naomi-boat people" take hostages of one of the factions for a year or so, and those remaining free attempt a rescue - but are given the option of returning to civilization, with some "conditions"...

[barbeedoll]

Oops! Duplicate.

[skinnyjm]

:confused: What would I say to make you look bad? What were you saying that you thought I would have input on?
Nothing of the sort, I was just saying you are NOT afraid to speak your mind. For example, see the rest of your post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5937032#post5937032) ! :)
The only thing we differ on, is that I like the Wildcats. :D

[Hunter Green]

When they showed the room completely filled, above the port hole, it was just bad writing.
It's clear to me that Charlie drowning was the point, as required by the plot. The bad writing is simply having the porthole in the wrong place.

Hurley's a nice guy; I think he would have shared the info with the cop if it weren't an integral part of the secret they're hiding.
Hurley is also agonizing over a lot of bad stuff, not least of which is the murder of the first woman ever to give him hope he'd be loved. Ana Lucia's death might just be something he doesn't want to talk about. Not that I'm disagreeing with you: it will probably turn out to be part of the secret, but it doesn't have to be.

[teknikel]

Hurley is also agonizing over a lot of bad stuff, not least of which is the murder of the first woman ever to give him hope he'd be loved. Ana Lucia's death might just be something he doesn't want to talk about. Not that I'm disagreeing with you: it will probably turn out to be part of the secret, but it doesn't have to be.
While I am sure Hurley is concerned about Ana Lucia's death, I believe he would be more distraught about Libby's.

[Rob Helmerichs]

While I am sure Hurley is concerned about Ana Lucia's death, I believe he would be more distraught about Libby's.
But the cop was asking him about Ana Lucia, wasn't he?

[Hunter Green]

I think to Hurley they're both one big topic he'd rather not think about, not two separate and unrelated events.

[teknikel]

But the cop was asking him about Ana Lucia, wasn't he?

Yes. you are right. I missed something when I replied. Ignore me as usual.

[jeff125va]

It's clear to me that Charlie drowning was the point, as required by the plot. The bad writing is simply having the porthole in the wrong place.


Hurley is also agonizing over a lot of bad stuff, not least of which is the murder of the first woman ever to give him hope he'd be loved. Ana Lucia's death might just be something he doesn't want to talk about. Not that I'm disagreeing with you: it will probably turn out to be part of the secret, but it doesn't have to be.
That's a good point, it was basically a double-murder of A-L and Libby. But, (Spoiler from "Eggtown") based on what Jack said on the witness stand, we know for sure that they are claiming that there were only 8 who even initially survived the crash.
By the way, you're forgetting about his girlfriend Starla. IMHO, way hotter than Libby, and she's not too shabby herself.