No CableCards for my new TiVo

[thomamon]

Just found out that my Cable Company does not have any cards in stock and there is no clue as to when they will be getting them. So now I have my brand new TiVo, but its nothing more then a paper weight at this time. I am extremely disappointed.

[bkdtv]

I assume your cable provider is Comcast? They are required by federal law to supply CableCards.

I would call them back, ask for the supervisor, and then mention you will be filing a formal complaint with the FCC if they cannot supply CableCards in a timely manner.

Is Verizon FiOS available in your area?

[thomamon]

I assume your cable provider is Comcast? They are required by federal law to supply CableCards.

I would call them back, ask for the supervisor, and then mention you will be filing a formal complaint with the FCC if they cannot supply CableCards in a timely manner.

Is Verizon FiOS available in your area?

No, unfortunately it is not :(

I will try that tomorrow, its just ridiculous.

[bicker]

What's evidently happening is that the manufacturers are not able to fill orders, placed by the cable companies, in a timely manner, and the FCC, in their infinite "wisdom" forgot to impose any regulations on the manufacturers of CableCards. "Oops." :rolleyes:

[windracer]

So now I have my brand new TiVo, but its nothing more then a paper weight at this time.
You can still use it to tune to your analog cable channels. Plus, do a channel scan and it should pick up any in-the-clear QAM channels.

[bicker]

Actually, you can tune to any OTA channels, if you have an antenna connected.

However, without the CableCards you cannot marry in-the-clear QAM channels to program guide data.

[thomamon]

You can still use it to tune to your analog cable channels. Plus, do a channel scan and it should pick up any in-the-clear QAM channels.

But I wouldn't be able to watch any digital channels at all? What about the local stations that are in HD?

[Makmcm]

When the FiOS techs were here last week to install FiOS tv, they told me that they have been inundated with new installations due to the offer FiOS is running in which new subscribers get a free HD television. As a result, they ran out of cable cards. They were told by the supply office that the cards were on order, but had no idea when they would come in. It will be one week tomorrow. I'm getting frustrated only being able to see a handful of channels, most of which have been showing football for the past week!

[bkdtv]

But I wouldn't be able to watch any digital channels at all? What about the local stations that are in HD?The digital HD channels are broadcast over the air. With a small antenna, you'll get those local HD channels and they'll have guide information.

Where do you think the cable companies get them? :D

Ok, they get them via fiber from the affiliate too, but it's the same signal.

[mike3775]

I assume your cable provider is Comcast? They are required by federal law to supply CableCards.

I would call them back, ask for the supervisor, and then mention you will be filing a formal complaint with the FCC if they cannot supply CableCards in a timely manner.

Is Verizon FiOS available in your area?

Your continual posts blasting Comcast is getting very old.

Nowhere in the OP's post did he mention Comcast, and yet you automatically blast them, just because you hate them.

People like you are the main reason I get sick of these forums, what is the point of asking for help or even posting when the high and mighty bkdtv will post his usual "comcast is the devil" posts.

Now that it is known that it isn't Comcast's fault, how about saying you were wrong and and post so? Oh yeah I forgot, the almighty bkdtv can't ever say it isn't Comcast's fault.

[thomamon]

Your continual posts blasting Comcast is getting very old.

Nowhere in the OP's post did he mention Comcast, and yet you automatically blast them, just because you hate them.

People like you are the main reason I get sick of these forums, what is the point of asking for help or even posting when the high and mighty bkdtv will post his usual "comcast is the devil" posts.

Now that it is known that it isn't Comcast's fault, how about saying you were wrong and and post so? Oh yeah I forgot, the almighty bkdtv can't ever say it isn't Comcast's fault.
I have Patriot Media... LOL

[dwit]

The digital HD channels are broadcast over the air. With a small antenna, you'll get those local HD channels and they'll have guide information.

Where do you think the cable companies get them? :D

Ok, they get them via fiber from the affiliate too, but it's the same signal.

The cable companies also carry many more digital(HD and nonHD) channels
that are not broadcast ota nor analog cable.

[windracer]

But I wouldn't be able to watch any digital channels at all?
Right, until your CableCARDs are properly paired and authorized.

What about the local stations that are in HD?
The local HDs should be available OTA via antenna (as someone else mentioned) but should also be in-the-clear QAM channels. If you do a channel scan, your TiVo should pick them up. As also mentioned, though, there won't be any Guide data for those channels so you won't be able to create any Season Passes (though you can do manual recordings).

[bkdtv]

Your continual posts blasting Comcast is getting very old.

Nowhere in the OP's post did he mention Comcast, and yet you automatically blast them, just because you hate them.

People like you are the main reason I get sick of these forums, what is the point of asking for help or even posting when the high and mighty bkdtv will post his usual "comcast is the devil" posts.

Now that it is known that it isn't Comcast's fault, how about saying you were wrong and and post so? Oh yeah I forgot, the almighty bkdtv can't ever say it isn't Comcast's fault.I think you confused me with someone else.

There was nothing specific in my post about Comcast. The comments apply to any major provider. I just wanted to confirm that he had a major cable provider. Smaller, independent cable companies with <750MHz systems are not required by FCC mandate to supply CableCards in a timely manner.

Do a search on my username with keyword Comcast. I don't think you are going to find much -- if anything -- negative about Comcast. I've posted some negative things about the SA8300HD DVR with SARA a long time ago, but that is about it. In fact, I was very happy with my TiVo under Comcast.

[halo0]

Your continual posts blasting Comcast is getting very old.

Nowhere in the OP's post did he mention Comcast, and yet you automatically blast them, just because you hate them.

People like you are the main reason I get sick of these forums, what is the point of asking for help or even posting when the high and mighty bkdtv will post his usual "comcast is the devil" posts.

Now that it is known that it isn't Comcast's fault, how about saying you were wrong and and post so? Oh yeah I forgot, the almighty bkdtv can't ever say it isn't Comcast's fault.

I'm sure not everything is Comca$t's fault. However, having been a customer of theirs on several different occasions, for a substantial period of time - I can say without reservation that by immediately making the assumption that something is their fault, you will turn out to be correct more times than not. Hands down, they have easily the worst customer service I've ever experienced, in any industry.

[ah30k]

I'm sure not everything is Comca$t's fault. However, having been a customer of theirs on several different occasions, for a substantial period of time - I can say without reservation that by immediately making the assumption that something is their fault, you will turn out to be correct more times than not. Hands down, they have easily the worst customer service I've ever experienced, in any industry.There was a recent article which I can't readily find now that ranked customer respect for corporations and Comcast was second to last in front of only Haliburton. I'm sure Haliburton that they got robbed.

[Adam1115]

I assume your cable provider is Comcast? They are required by federal law to supply CableCards.

I would call them back, ask for the supervisor, and then mention you will be filing a formal complaint with the FCC if they cannot supply CableCards in a timely manner.

Is Verizon FiOS available in your area?

On your point about comcast, they told me EXACTLY what the op was told. (We have none, we don't know when they will.)

Tell them about fcc complaints, (btw I did file one along with a BBB complaint) didn't help They could care less.

[Adam1115]

Your continual posts blasting Comcast is getting very old.

Are you kidding me? Have you been in the Comcast Cablecard thread? It's hardly surprising the amount of frustration these cable companies are providing wouldn't bleed over into other threads.

[bicker]

However, misdirected angst is still misdirected angst. People love to blame cable companies for providing them just what they're obligated to; people love to interpret requirements in the manner most favorable to themselves as customers, then impose such obligations on the cable companies, and then express outrage when they don't get their way. :shrug:

[jrm01]

People who hate Comcast will continue to bash them, and people who love them (well, at least are supporters of them) will continue to defend them. In truth (IMHO) they have a lot of room for improvement in the way that they support cablecards for Tivo (and probably for TVs as well).

In their defense, the process is far too difficult in the way that it is implemented and I believe that their problem is that they have so many different systems they can't establish just one standard practice. They have Motorola systems and SA systems. They have home-grown systems and systems from buyouts and mergers. The authorization system has to be linked to the billing system and they probably have scores of different billing systems.

I have to believe that they have had success stories in each office for cablecard installations and it would be nice if they would just document those successes and establish guidelines in each office. However, Tivo cablecard issues are a small percentage of their users and it probably isn't a high priority. In my own experience (10-12 different cases) they had to lose money on the installation. They charge $16.99 for a truck roll and $1.50 a month for two cards. In over half of these cases they had to make 2-3 additional visits (at no additional charge) to fix their own errors. In these cases (and undoubtably others like it) it would have been well worth their effort to establish a Best Practice standard.

[bicker]

You didn't account for the costs associated with documenting and training all staff on these best practices, especially in light of what you said earlier about how few customers use CableCards. Remember, labor is typically the most cost-dense aspect of any service. You also didn't account for the additional profit gained from customers that switch back to the cable company DVR after having trouble with getting the TiVo working well.

[jrm01]

The cost-dense aspect of labor is the exact reason why I think it would be worthwhile in order to avoid the countless hours lost in the field trying to re-invent solutions. I really don't think it would involve a lot of training, just well documented procedures (including troubleshooting answers) that would need to be developed.

[bicker]

You're putting up the labor associated with the comparatively few times they'll have to send a tech out to fix something versus the labor associated with administering training to every single tech. Sorry, but documentation is pretty much ignored (and the documentation provided by TiVo is actually sufficient), and classroom or practical training is incredibly expensive, especially for something that I basically helped the tech do based solely on my reading of these threads. Most of the techs can figure it out themselves, and do it well, as long as the equipment is cooperating. So training, which must be administered to all, because you cannot tell in advance which techs won't "get it", would likely be more expensive.

[AJRitz]

You're putting up the labor associated with the comparatively few times they'll have to send a tech out to fix something versus the labor associated with administering training to every single tech. Sorry, but documentation is pretty much ignored (and the documentation provided by TiVo is actually sufficient), and classroom or practical training is incredibly expensive, especially for something that I basically helped the tech do based solely on my reading of these threads. Most of the techs can figure it out themselves, and do it well, as long as the equipment is cooperating. So training, which must be administered to all, because you cannot tell in advance which techs won't "get it", would likely be more expensive.

Tough luck. When you are in a regulated industry, complying with industry regulations is an expected cost of business. If you've failed to budget for regulatory compliance, you're an idiot and your business deserves the public thrashing administered by your customers. The FCC mandates that cable companies provide CableCARDs to customers at reasonable cost, essentially on demand. All cable companies, Comcast included, had PLENTY of time to order the necessary cards, distribute them to local franchises, and train staff on installation. But instead of working on compliance, many cable companies instead fought implementation of the Rule all the way down to the wire - arrogantly refusing to prepare for compliance in case their well-paid lobbyists were unable to convince the FCC to further delay implementation of the Rule. The cable companies are NOT in compliance with the Rule if they just toss you a CableCARD. The card has to work. It's their obligation to provide a card that works.

Classroom training on CableCARD installation should be unnecessary. All that's needed is a simple, step-by-step, instruction card, to which the onsite Tech and the call-in CSR can each refer during the pairing process. If cards have to be initialized before they're sent out for installation, that should be handled as the stock of cards arrives, not as the tech is leaving for the day of installs.

Avoiding compliance with FCC rules by lying to customers and actively attempting to annoy them into giving up and making a different choice (a choice that generates a higher revenue stream for the cable company) is petulant, childish behavior and ought not be tolerated.

[acvthree]

You didn't account for the costs associated with documenting and training all staff on these best practices, especially in light of what you said earlier about how few customers use CableCards. Remember, labor is typically the most cost-dense aspect of any service. You also didn't account for the additional profit gained from customers that switch back to the cable company DVR after having trouble with getting the TiVo working well.

You have definitely defined the least effective solution.

It seems to me that an effective solution would be to train a few individuals in each area and any call that included that technology would be transfered to the appropriate individual.

High mix, low volume products have known business solutions. This is not rocket surgery.

Al

[Adam1115]

You didn't account for the costs associated with documenting and training all staff on these best practices, especially in light of what you said earlier about how few customers use CableCards. Remember, labor is typically the most cost-dense aspect of any service. You also didn't account for the additional profit gained from customers that switch back to the cable company DVR after having trouble with getting the TiVo working well.

Hmmm, well good for them, I guess it's worth it for them to lose out on my $120/month.

BTW, I bet cable company expenses (burry a cable, headend equipment) is a lot cheaper than 14 satellites and uplink facilities....

[vstone]

Cable Company bosses do NOT get paid on the basis of customer satisfaction or the quality of the HD signal provided (vs that of a different provider). They are paid on the basis of increasing company profits. We are not looking at a case of "better is the enemy of good enough". We are looking at a case of "if it wasn't good enough, it wouldn't be the minimum." And the minimum is not the legal minimum, but the old tried and true "the minimum we can get away with," practiced by companies, governments, and individuals alike.

[bicker]

Tough luck.But it isn't. The regulations clearly don't extent to whether training you specify is deployed to techs. That's an internal matter, and given how few people use CableCard, almost surely won't rise to the level of significance necessary to capture any officials' attention. So basically, you're just peddling wishful thinking.

The FCC mandates that cable companies provide CableCARDs to customers at reasonable cost, essentially on demand.Don't make stuff up. Neither the term "on demand" nor even "essentially on demand" appear in the regulation. This is left up to the MSO's discretion. Let's keep things real, here. You may want the enforcement of the regulations to be more consumer-biased, but they are not.

All cable companies, Comcast included, had PLENTY of time to order the necessary cards, distribute them to local franchises, and train staff on installation.No reasonable official or judge would consider a four month delay from the manufacturer to be the fault of the MSO.

Again, let's keep things real, here. You may want things to be different, but they aren't, and they're not going to change. I've said it several times before, just look at how things have gone in this country over the last thirty years... you know that consumerist-bias is not on the rise, but rather has been on the decline for a long time.

[bicker]

Hmmm, well good for them, I guess it's worth it for them to lose out on my $120/month.None of us, alone, matter, and as pointed out by others in this thread, the number of customers using CableCards is pretty minimal. It just isn't going to make an impact, revenue-wise.

BTW, I bet cable company expenses (burry a cable, headend equipment) is a lot cheaper than 14 satellites and uplink facilities....However, you don't know, so mentioning it isn't really a smart idea. You are as likely as not to be wrong.

[ZeoTiVo]

You didn't account for the costs associated with documenting and training all staff on these best practices, especially in light of what you said earlier about how few customers use CableCards. Remember, labor is typically the most cost-dense aspect of any service. You also didn't account for the additional profit gained from customers that switch back to the cable company DVR after having trouble with getting the TiVo working well.

what about TiVo/cable card customers who are in a minimum one year contract and if the cable card works well are likely to never think about switching to DBS. There is plenty of gold in the cable card hills to make doing some work to get at it long term profitable for the cable companies, and once they get the process down it would be short term profiatble as well.

[bicker]

I think too few customers use CableCards to matter much to the MSOs. Folks who jump to DBS may have done so anyway. Heck, I still might jump to DirecTV. It's not off my radar, and indeed, I do check every few months to see if pricing and service have changed enough to make that decision myself. And I have a TiVo S3 with (currently) working CableCards. And folks who get fed up with CableCards are as likely as not to just switch back to the cable company DVR. I was, myself, THIS close giving up on my TiVo S3 and just using my Comcast DVR from now on, due to the problems I've been having with my TiVo S3 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=379282).

[Adam1115]

However, you don't know, so mentioning it isn't really a smart idea. You are as likely as not to be wrong.

I know that satellite companies invest heavily in their equipment. I bet more than cable. No, I don't know, but it's not like the poor cable companies have to invest in cablecard technology and satellite companies don't have to spend anything. Just providing LIL and HD-LIL fills 3 satellites on DirecTV!

I also know that DirecTV hands out heavily subsidized boxes in exchange for your business. Comcast doesn't have to subsidize anything, just hand me a cable card and activate it.

None of us, alone, matter, and as pointed out by others in this thread, because Comcast makes it virtually impossible to use CableCARDS, the number of customers using CableCards is pretty minimal. It just isn't going to make an impact, revenue-wise.

FYP.

No amount of me loving my TiVo is going to make me put up with a company that doesn't want my business.

[bicker]

I know that satellite companies invest heavily in their equipment. I bet more than cable. No, I don't know, but it's not like the poor cable companies have to invest in cablecard technology and satellite companies don't have to spend anything. Just providing LIL and HD-LIL fills 3 satellites on DirecTV!Satellite is able to invest all its money in service. Cable has to invest lots of money on compliance. An innate unfairness in the system. I suspect all told, they both invest comparable amounts in their various obligations and objectives, and I believe my guess is as good as yours.

I also know that DirecTV hands out heavily subsidized boxes in exchange for your business. Comcast doesn't have to subsidize anything, just hand me a cable card and activate it.Huh? Do you know how much those cards COST? I don't believe they allow cable companies to charge nearly enough to ensure that they will EVER make back their cost, within their expected life-span.

No amount of me loving my TiVo is going to make me put up with a company that doesn't want my business.It isn't a matter of not wanting your business. It is a matter of prioritizing investments based on what the customer-base as a whole values. BIG difference.

[BobCamp1]

High mix, low volume products have known business solutions. This is not rocket surgery.

Al

Rocket surgery? I'll have to ask a brain scientist about that. :D

It's not difficult, but it is easy to screw up, especially when you really don't care.

[Adam1115]

It isn't a matter of not wanting your business. It is a matter of prioritizing investments based on what the customer-base as a whole values. BIG difference.

I agree. But proof of my opinion about cable companies is in their own equipment. Compare a cable DVR to the DirecTV HR20. Not even a comparison.

Here comes cablecards to bale out their crappy equipment and they refuse to install them. I'm TRYING to give them money.

Their 'prioritization' is short-sighted. You can't just sit back and hope people sign up for your content. The cable companies have competition now.

[bicker]

Compare a cable DVR to the DirecTV HR20. Not even a comparison.Yeah -- you have to buy the HR20 yourself, and pay for repairs to it yourself, and pay to replace it if it cannot be replaced, yourself.

Was that your point?

Here comes cablecards to bale out their crappy equipment and they refuse to install them.Oh wait... DirecTV won't even ALLOW you to use your TiVO HD with their service.

Their 'prioritization' is short-sighted.Yeah, DirecTV's prioritization is short-sighted, now that you point it out.


Seriously, your personal priorities don't dictate their business priorities. That doesn't make their priorities "short-sighted" -- it makes it "sighted" on something other than just you.

[mlcarson]

Whatever they cost -- it can't be more than the labor cost associated with trying to reuse the ones they suspect are dead over and over again on new customers. I suspect most of the horror stories of cable card installations would disappear if they would use known good hardware rather than trying to salvage "suspect" hardware from other failed installations.


Huh? Do you know how much those cards COST? I don't believe they allow cable companies to charge nearly enough to ensure that they will EVER make back their cost, within their expected life-span.

[bicker]

Whatever they cost -- it can't be more than ...Past experience has shown that we generally have no idea how much things cost large companies. Some things are much less expensive than we expect them to be, and some things are much more expensive than we expect them to be. The safest bet is to assume that everything costs companies far more than we expect it to, especially when their pricing seems to indicate that.

[Adam1115]

Oh wait... DirecTV won't even ALLOW you to use your TiVO HD with their service.

Yea, those crazy idiots won't ALLOW me to use a completely incompatible technology that isn't designed for satellite on their system.

Just how on earth do you expect directv to support cablecards? It's technologically impossible, unless they remodulated every single channel as QAM and distributed it to you over coax. How DARE they not build a cable plant in each persons home!

[bizzy]

Just how on earth do you expect directv to support cablecards? It's technologically impossible, unless they remodulated every single channel as QAM and distributed it to you over coax. How DARE they not build a cable plant in each persons home!


Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't that basically what FIOS does? :)

[ah30k]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't that basically what FIOS does? :)Who/what were you replying about?

[bizzy]

Who/what were you replying about?

I was replying to the post directly previous to mine. Sorry if that was confusing.

[ah30k]

I was replying to the post directly previous to mine. Sorry if that was confusing.Ah, sorry. Yes Verizon does build an RF plant in each home (ONT converts fiber to RF). I guess what you are suggesting is feasible. Maybe.

[Adam1115]

Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't that basically what FIOS does? :)

No, FIOS is not a satellite company.

[Adam1115]

Ah, sorry. Yes Verizon does build an RF plant in each home (ONT converts fiber to RF). I guess what you are suggesting is feasible. Maybe.

No, they broadcast the entire cable spectrum the same as cable companies, just over Fiber. The only thing that happens at the home is the translation between fiber optic and coax.

[ah30k]

No, they broadcast the entire cable spectrum the same as cable companies, just over Fiber. The only thing that happens at the home is the translation between fiber optic and coax.Are you saying that satellite does NOT broadcast the entire spectrum? I thought they did. If there is selective transmission then you are correct.

[bizzy]

Are you saying that satellite does NOT broadcast the entire spectrum? I thought they did. If there is selective transmission then you are correct.

I think that technically there is a switched aspect as there are multiple LNBs pointed at different transponders; but effectively there is no reason that can't be aggregated.

[ah30k]

I think that technically there is a switched aspect as there are multiple LNBs pointed at different transponders; but effectively there is no reason that can't be aggregated.As long as they are both broadcast but the poster was implying that there was selective transmission based on what is being requested.

[bizzy]

The quote from Adam115 was "It's technologically impossible, unless they remodulated every single channel as QAM and distributed it to you over coax." but I can't tell if we're agreeing or disagreeing anymore. :)

[ah30k]

and in post 45 he says that FiOS and cable broadcast the entire spectrum implying that satellite does not.

I say that your claim of satellite rebuilding a plant in the home is technically possible (perhaps not financially). Adam115 seems to think it is not since satellites don't sent the whole spectrum.

[Adam1115]

and in post 45 he says that FiOS and cable broadcast the entire spectrum implying that satellite does not.

I didn't imply anything, I was talking about FIOS not satellite. Reread the thread. It was stated that Fios remodulates the signals in your home as QAM, and that satellite could do the same. I said that this was incorrect, FIOS broadcasts the entire spectrum from their cable plant to your TV. The 'box' only switches from Fiber Optic cabling to Coax.

What I said was, it's technologically impossible for satellite to remodulate every channel in QAM and distribute it to your TiVo and support cablecards. They're are two different technologies. They can't do it.

But if your going to nitpick, I guess the word I should've used is 'not feasible'. The satellite dish cannot receive all of the frequencies from the satellite directly. Even if it could, it's not in QAM, it uses different encryption and compression. You would have to build an MDU installation with hundreds of receivers and expensive switches and QAM modulation. AS I SAID, you'd have to build an entire cable plant in each house.

[DingoAce10]

Well if anyone is in the area of MA, has Verizon FIOS and needs a CC...I have an extra one that is sitting a top my HT cabnit...My last TV has a CC slot and I have contacted Verzion to come and get it (there are no drop-offs near me I guess)...They said they would send a box to ship it back to them, but it has been over 2 months now....
:-)

[bkdtv]

Yea, those crazy idiots won't ALLOW me to use a completely incompatible technology that isn't designed for satellite on their system.

Just how on earth do you expect directv to support cablecards? It's technologically impossible, unless they remodulated every single channel as QAM and distributed it to you over coax. How DARE they not build a cable plant in each persons home!I think bicker's point was that DirecTV -- under News Corp ownership -- has no interest in licensing TiVo the encryption technology necessary for them to build a compatible solution.

[Adam1115]

I think bicker's point was that DirecTV -- under News Corp ownership -- has no interest in licensing TiVo the encryption technology necessary for them to build a compatible solution.

And neither do the cable companies, evidenced by their making it as difficult as possible to get cablecards.

I guess the point is that the TiVo works half ass with cable and not at all with DirecTV.

[sloan]

Find out what you can do with OTA.

I was so surprised at what I was getting, my TivoHD is OTA only now.

A $30 Radio Shack antenna in the attic might surprise you.

(Of course, I have no idea where you're at exactly, but if you're close, I'd give it a try).

[ah30k]

Find out what you can do with OTA.

I was so surprised at what I was getting, my TivoHD is OTA only now.

A $30 Radio Shack antenna in the attic might surprise you.

(Of course, I have no idea where you're at exactly, but if you're close, I'd give it a try).Go to http://antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and plug in your address. It will show the stations near you and recommend an antenna.

[bicker]

Yea, those crazy idiots won't ALLOW me to use a completely incompatible technology that isn't designed for satellite on their system.It isn't "completely incompatible" technology, and it wasn't designed for satellite because satellite refused to allow it be designed for satellite -- they refused to open their network, the way cable was forced to.

Just how on earth do you expect directv to support cablecards?I don't. You're missing the point.

I think bicker's point was that DirecTV -- under News Corp ownership -- has no interest in licensing TiVo the encryption technology necessary for them to build a compatible solution.That'll do the trick.

[Adam1115]

It isn't "completely incompatible" technology, and it wasn't designed for satellite because satellite refused to allow it be designed for satellite -- they refused to open their network, the way cable was forced to.

You think if DirecTV had called cablelabs and said 'hey, we'd like cablecards to work with our satellite system.', they would've designed them to be compatible out of the goodness of their hearts? You are aware that cablelabs is run by cable operators?

Founded in 1988 by cable operating companies, Cable Television Laboratories, Inc. (CableLabs®) is a non-profit research and development consortium that is dedicated to pursuing new cable telecommunications technologies and to helping its cable operator members integrate those technical advancements into their business objectives.

I seriously doubt Cable Labs would've been willing to voluntarily design a satellite conditional access system as you suggest.

[bicker]

I'm saying that if the FCC didn't provide the satellite companies waivers from the separable security mandate, then a cable-only solution would not have satisfied the requirements, and therefore cable companies would have been required by law to work out a solution with D* and E*.

[Adam1115]

I'm saying that if the FCC didn't provide the satellite companies waivers from the separable security mandate, then a cable-only solution would not have satisfied the requirements, and therefore cable companies would have been required by law to work out a solution with D* and E*.

They would be mandated to do the impossible? Satellite is COMPLETELY different than cable. Ther eis NO WAY what works for cable would work for satellite and vice versa.

You could argue that they could be mandated to open up there technology to vendors, but it would result in a complete different solution. Cablecards have been out for four years, and we finally just a year ago have a cablecard TiVo. There is no guarantee a company like tivo would develop a satellite box. Especially when sat dvr's are much more competitive than cable dvr's.

[bicker]

They would be mandated to do the impossible?No, they would have mandated comprehensive inter-operability. Instead, the mandated partial inter-operability.