Progressive Downloads not working

[byrann]

I've only had my TiVo HD for a few weeks now, and so far this is the only real issue that I've seen: Progressive Downloads for Amazon Unbox content don't work. For those that don't know, Progressive Downloads offer you the ability to watch a show that you are downloading without waiting for it to download completely.

Progressive downloads are supposed to be supported for TiVo Series 3 and TiVo HD boxes, but alarmingly, there is not one person that I spoke to in customer service that had any idea what I was talking about. They all blissfully maintained their ignorance, even when I told them about the press releases (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/tivo-updates/tivo-upgrades-its-series-3-and-tivo-hd-313857.php) that tell about the progressive downloads, and even Amazon's FAQ page (http://www.amazon.com/gp/video/tivo) regarding Unbox content. I spoke to 3 different people yesterday who in turn spoke to 3 different people- all of which had no idea what I was talking about. One person suggested I call TiVo corporate, which is what I did today.

I spoke to Executive Customer Support at TiVo, and they had no idea what I was talking about. What gives? Has anyone been able to get an Amazon Unbox movie and have it play inside the 10 minute window that it is supposed to? How about just playing before it downloads the show in its entirety?

Hopefully someone here has gotten it to work.

[jaredmwright]

I have been using progressive downloads on Unbox since the last Series3 software update. Double check that you are on the latest version and there is not a pending restart. Search the threads also, I think you will find many people who are successfully using this now.

[byrann]

I have been using progressive downloads on Unbox since the last Series3 software update. Double check that you are on the latest version and there is not a pending restart. Search the threads also, I think you will find many people who are successfully using this now.

Thanks for the quick reply, but I haven't had much luck searching the threads. I am using the latest TiVo version (9.2a-01-2-652), and although I very much want progressive downloads to work, I think the bigger issue is that TiVo has absolutely no idea what progressive downloads are. Everyone I have spoken to maintains that (after being shown the Amazon FAQ page) it is an Unbox supported issue, but progressive downloads are not supported by TiVo, which is contrary to the truth.

How have you been able to jumpstart the progressive download feature? My internet isn't blazingly fast (1.5 down/780 up), but I shouldn't have to wait until the entire movie downloads to watch the thing.

[jaredmwright]

I do know that initially upon downloading an Unbox media and/or something from TiVoCast, it will buffer about 6 minutes or so before updating the download time on the information screen for the download. After about 6 minutes are download (in my experience) I can then start watching the show as it downloads. I get a prompt warning me that the viewing may be interrupted since it is still downloading.
I have quite a different connection to the internet though. I have cable and have measured my download to be between 10-20Mb/s which is about 10-15 times faster than yours. This may or may not have anything to due with the speed. One other note, I am located in the Bay Area, where I believe that Amazon and TiVo each server their download content to TiVo's. This means I have a low latency connection because of the proximity as well.

BTW my Series 3 version is: 9.2a-01-2-648

[byrann]

Yes, your internet connection is much faster, but that should only mean that you can download a show quicker, and have less time to wait for a show to buffer before watching it. According to Amazon, on a 5 Mbps connection speed, it should take about an hour for the entire movie to download, which would mean that on a 10 Mbps connection, a movie should be available in 30 minutes. I have no doubts that a faster connection would give you less buffer time needed, but I'm wondering why I have to download the entire movie on my TiVo HD- there's no buffer whatsoever.

TiVo executive level customer support just got back to me, and they said that the press release is wrong, and so is Amazon's FAQ page. TiVo does NOT support progressive downloads, and there are no plans to. The lady I spoke with intimated that the Amazon page would be "corrected" within the week. WTF?

[morac]

Okay first off, progressive downloads do work, but at 1.5 mpbs it probably won't work for you. Take for example, Live Free of Die Hard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011MZOEI/ref=atv_pp2/105-9316364-4230807?pf_rd_p=336852501&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=16261631&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0WTCHHFAZ4XR4PM1W1SC). The bitrate of this movie is 2800 kbps which is almost double your download speeds. This means you'd need to download over half the movie before you could start watching it progressively otherwise you'd catch up to the download while playing.

What error do you get when you try and play a movie/program while it is downloading? It should either say you haven't waited long enough or give you an estimated time frame until you can play the download. To test this just go to Download Movies and TV in the Find Programs menu and either pick a TiVoCast to download or go to Amazon and download a free program.

[rainwater]

All Series 3 and TiVo HD units have progressive downloads enabled. You never explained why you needed to call TiVo support. Maybe if you posted the actual issue you are having someone could help you.

[byrann]

Okay first off, progressive downloads do work, but at 1.5 mpbs it probably won't work for you. Take for example, Live Free of Die Hard (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0011MZOEI/ref=atv_pp2/105-9316364-4230807?pf_rd_p=336852501&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_i=16261631&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0WTCHHFAZ4XR4PM1W1SC). The bitrate of this movie is 2800 kbps which is almost double your download speeds. This means you'd need to download over half the movie before you could start watching it progressively otherwise you'd catch up to the download while playing.

What error do you get when you try and play a movie/program while it is downloading? It should either say you haven't waited long enough or give you an estimated time frame until you can play the download. To test this just go to Download Movies and TV in the Find Programs menu and either pick a TiVoCast to download or go to Amazon and download a free program.

I'm testing a Break.com TiVoCast- it's 6:15 long, and a free Amazon UnBox show (16 minutes), and I'll post the results. When I download a movie, it will tell me that I can watch the movie in __ hours and __ minutes. Usually this is about 3-4 hours. I realize that the buffer needs to be there, the problem is that the ENTIRE program has to download- there is nothing progressive about it. One would think that if it has downloaded 75% of a 2 hour movie in 3 hours, the last 25% (or 1/2 hour) wouldn't take 1 1/2 hours to download (the already downloaded amount). Theoretically, I should be able to watch at that point, but I can't. I have to literally wait until it is 100% before watching.

Of course, the bigger problem is that TiVo has disavowed all things "Progressive Download".

Update: When I click "play" on the 16 minute (Looney Tunes) program that is downloading, I get a screen that states "This program is downloading. It cannot be played now because the download speed is not fast enough or not enough video has been received. Please try to play this program again after 15 minutes have passed". It started the download at 12:01, and is 16 minutes long.

[byrann]

All Series 3 and TiVo HD units have progressive downloads enabled. You never explained why you needed to call TiVo support. Maybe if you posted the actual issue you are having someone could help you.

I called Customer Support because my Progressive Downloads don't work- it's not progressive (ie., I have to wait until something is 100% downloaded before I can watch it). And according to TiVo, progressive downloads are not something that exists, nor supports. Don't believe me? Call TiVo and ask someone. Anyone.

[morac]

Hmm, the algorithm TiVo uses to estimate how long it will take to download might be off in your case. I'll try and throw out some numbers and see what should happen.

Assuming your free Unbox show also uses a 2800 kbps bitrate (without the title I can't check that or the file size), for a 16 minute show this would be about 328 MB. At 1.5 mbps this would take about 30 minutes to download which is almost 2 times realtime. Theoretically the TiVo should allow you to start streaming about 15 minutes into the download, but it might disable progressive downloads since your download speed bitrate is less than the movie playback bitrate.

My download speeds are 6 mbps so I don't know what it normally does for someone downloading at 1.5 mbps.


That customers support is unaware of the progressive download feature is not surprising, as it isn't mentioned anywhere in the TiVo web site's knowledge base for downloads (it was never updated for progressive downloads). If support is searching the KB, they won't find anything and tell you that feature doesn't exist.

[byrann]

Morac-

Thanks for the numbers- I didn't realize the title would help, but here it is: "Looney Tunes- Acrobatty Bunny/What's Up, Doc?". I'll let you at what time I can actually start playing the movie. In trying to figure out the root of the issue, I suspected that my download speeds might be a mitigating factor, but with TiVo maintaining that Progressive Downloads don't exist, it's hard to justify switching from DSL to Cable just to troubleshoot the problem.

Although I understand that their Knowledge Base never got updated, it's ludicrous to me that the Executive Level support would research the issue, and say that Amazon is wrong and that their FAQ would have to be changed. For them to state that their press release is wrong is also just as asinine. Thankfully, people on this board are trying to help.

btw- I've been trying to play the show each time the TiVo downloads another minute. So far, nothing, and it's 11 minutes in to the 16 minute show.

UPDATE: It took the entire 16 minutes for it to play.

[morac]

Well I checked the page for that program and it specifically says that the video should have been ready to watch in about 10 minutes based on a 1.5 mbps connection. How long did it take the show to download? It should have taken about 30 minutes to download, if it took longer then your speeds are slower than they should be.

In any case, for whatever reason it appears the TiVo is severely overestimating the download time and is preventing you from watching it until it's already finished.

If you call TiVo support again, I'd try going to tier-2 support or maybe TiVoStephen can chime in here as to what might be going on.

[rainwater]

In any case, for whatever reason it appears the TiVo is severely overestimating the download time and is preventing you from watching it until it's already finished.

Download times have always been overestimated for the start time for progressive downloads. So for the original poster, based on their connection speeds they will not be able to play most downloads until they are mostly finished. It is possible they can tweak it, but I think they are playing it safe and slightly overestimating so if a user starts a video, they are almost certain it will be complete before they get to the current download point.

I would imagine that is most likely because of Unbox since they don't want users to be automatically paused to wait for more data to download since they paid for the content.

[byrann]

Thanks for all the suggestions- I'm switching to a faster connection tomorrow (6mbps), so hopefully that will solve the problem. I'll update when I get it.

[HDTiVo]

TiVo executive level customer support just got back to me, and they said that the press release is wrong, and so is Amazon's FAQ page. TiVo does NOT support progressive downloads, and there are no plans to. The lady I spoke with intimated that the Amazon page would be "corrected" within the week. WTF?

I suppose it is an accomplishment you found someone that's heard of Unbox or could answer a phone. Did you inquire as to the drug of choice they were using over there to ring in the New Year?

[CharlesH]

TiVo executive level customer support just got back to me, and they said that the press release is wrong, and so is Amazon's FAQ page. TiVo does NOT support progressive downloads, and there are no plans to. The lady I spoke with intimated that the Amazon page would be "corrected" within the week. WTF?It's not supported on the Series2 yet, but lots of us find it works just fine with the 9.2 software on the S3/THD TiVos. It was even listed in the "new features" message on myTiVo when 9.2 was installed. Perhaps TiVoPony or TivoJerry need to have a word with some of their colleagues about this.