Bad news for Unbox

[Kilarney]

Fox studios is supposed to sign a deal with ITunes. http://www.rttnews.com/sp/breakingnews.asp?date=12/27/2007&item=11&vid=0

This is disappointing. I really like Unbox, and want them to do well.

What's not clear from the articles I've seen is if it's an exclusive deal. Nonetheless, it looks like ITunes is about to become and 800 pound gorilla in the movie rental market. (Other articles note that they are in talks with other studios.)

Maybe this is a good thing, since their movies will rent for $2.99.

[pdhenry]

Nothing in the article suggests that this an exclusive deal.

[bicker]

And nothing in the article indicates that they'll support Closed Captioning for the 35 million Americans with hearing impairment.

[Kilarney]

I think if any of the non-ITunes services survives it will be Unbox. That's because Amazon has found a way to get their service into the homes of thousands of Americans - thanks to TIVO. Let's face it, Apple TV was a flop. And why would you buy an Apple TV when you can get a TIVO for the same price? However, ITunes can get the movies onto portable devices. That's something Unbox can't do. So they each have their strengths and weaknesses.

Still... Apple is a brutally tough competitor. Just ask Napster.

[jmoak]

And nothing in the article indicates that they'll even support a simple audio track on any Fox movie on any other service than iTunes. Millions of Americans will not want to watch silent movies! (it's not mentioned even once!):eek:

This is disappointing. I really like Unbox, and want them to do well.

:(





do i even need a winky here?

[pkscout]

iTunes has yet to dominate the video market the way they did the audio market. I don't think one rental deal (if it's even true) will kill Unbox or any other video rental competitor. And since Apple has yet to release any video with 5.1 surround, it might not be any better than the Unbox stereo sound. And with my TiVo Unbox will likely be much more convenient to use.

[kas25]

When is Unbox going to format for widescreen? I am tired of the huge black bars at the top/bottom?

[flatcurve]

It would be silly for Fox to lock themselves into an exclusive deal when no service has emerged as the front runner for download rentals.

[Einselen]

It would be silly for Fox to lock themselves into an exclusive deal when no service has emerged as the front runner for download rentals.

Just like it is silly for movie studios to lock themselves into exclusives for HD-DVD or BluRay? It happens and that is part of business plans and exclusives.

[nrc]

Unbox already has both movies and TV available from FOX. It seems doubtful that a studio would enter into an exclusive deal with iTunes for video downloads at this point.

The good thing for Amazon is that portable video isn't nearly as compelling a product as portable audio and so far Apple has made slow progress in the home video marketplace. I'll start to worry if TiVo doesn't announce some improvements in their video download capabilities (ahem HD) and start to market them more widely soon.

[rainwater]

This is disappointing. I really like Unbox, and want them to do well.

Fox is on iTunes, Hulu, and Unbox. This is great news for Unbox users. It means studios are willing to have their content on all of these services.

[flatcurve]

Just like it is silly for movie studios to lock themselves into exclusives for HD-DVD or BluRay? It happens and that is part of business plans and exclusives.

hey, just because I think it's silly doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

[pdhenry]

However, ITunes can get the movies onto portable devices. That's something Unbox can't do.Not true (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=atv_dp_cs_pd?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3782#transferring).Transferring to a Device

Transferring a video to your hand-held device is as simple as clicking on the cover image or title of the video and dragging it to the device listed in the right-hand frame. Purchased Unbox videos contain a smaller portable file that is specially encoded for hand-held devices. When you transfer a video, the file on the device will actually have a smaller file size than the video file on your computer.

If a you visit the Devices tab and do not see a portable file listed for a video you purchased, click on the My Videos tab, locate the desired video, and click on the title with your right mouse button. This activates a menu that allows you to access available options. From the menu, choose "Download portable file to this PC."

Supported Devices

Most Plays for Sure (http://www.playsforsure.com/) compliant portable video players will work with the Amazon Unbox service. To see a complete list of Unbox-approved portable video players, please see our Unbox Compatible Devices (http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000038721) page.

[ZeoTiVo]

The good thing for Amazon is that portable video isn't nearly as compelling a product as portable audio and so far Apple has made slow progress in the home video marketplace.
not many people want to watch a video multiple times versus playing a song many multiple times. I am not a big fan of buying video but would rather rent it. To me the big gap in all these services is being able to rent video for portable devices.

oh and the obligatory rant about only 24 hours to watch a rental

[Kilarney]

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess what I meant was that ITunes can get movies onto 90% of the portable devices out there. Unbox doesn't have access to IPods.

[ZeoTiVo]

Thanks for the clarification.

I guess what I meant was that ITunes can get movies onto 90% of the portable devices out there. Unbox doesn't have access to IPods.

I play shows, movies and music(including Rhapsody) on my smartphone - did you count that into your 90% figure

[Kilarney]

Man... you guys are tough. Surely you aren't denying that Apple and Ipod dominate the portable media market? That was my point.

[flatcurve]

oh and the obligatory rant about only 24 hours to watch a rental

I don't know how it is on unbox or netflix but on the Vudu, you have 30 days to watch a rental. Once you press play though, you only have 24 hours to finish watching it. 30 days to watch beats renting from the store. Too bad that box costs $400.

[Kilarney]

Same with Unbox. 30 days to start watching. 24 hours once you do start.

Just 30 hours would make a HUGE difference.

[Einselen]

I don't know how it is on unbox or netflix but on the Vudu, you have 30 days to watch a rental. Once you press play though, you only have 24 hours to finish watching it. 30 days to watch beats renting from the store. Too bad that box costs $400.

I believe most if not all studios have the 30 day storage, 24 hours once hit play option. This is due to the fact that it is the movie industry setting these limits and not the services. The issue lots have is with 24 hour watching is say something comes up in the middle of watching (cranky kid, falling asleep, friend in need, etc.) it is hard to get back within the 24 hour window to complete the viewing, especially since most have jobs the next day, etc.

[acvthree]

When is Unbox going to format for widescreen? I am tired of the huge black bars at the top/bottom?

Is that for OAR?

I have to say that all of my rentals have been widescreen. Am I doing something wrong?

Al

[nirisahn]

Not true (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=atv_dp_cs_pd?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3782#transferring).
Quote:
Transferring to a Device

Transferring a video to your hand-held device is as simple as clicking on the cover image or title of the video and dragging it to the device listed in the right-hand frame. Purchased Unbox videos contain a smaller portable file that is specially encoded for hand-held devices. When you transfer a video, the file on the device will actually have a smaller file size than the video file on your computer.

If a you visit the Devices tab and do not see a portable file listed for a video you purchased, click on the My Videos tab, locate the desired video, and click on the title with your right mouse button. This activates a menu that allows you to access available options. From the menu, choose "Download portable file to this PC."

Supported Devices

Most Plays for Sure compliant portable video players will work with the Amazon Unbox service. To see a complete list of Unbox-approved portable video players, please see our Unbox Compatible Devices page.



And it works quite well, too. I've transferred movies to my Zen this way. The transfer is really fast, and the picture quality is excellent.

[ZeoTiVo]

Man... you guys are tough. Surely you aren't denying that Apple and Ipod dominate the portable media market? That was my point.
they dominate the pay per song market, were first out there and do indeed have a great hardware line in the iPod. But the iPod line is your only choice.
Apple does have a very large clout in the market.

Rhapsody dominates the per per month market but relies on 3rd parties for hardware. However my one child out of 4 has 389 songs which would have been 389$ at iTunes :eek: With 4 kids to keep in songs my choice had nothing to do with hardware or market size.

in the video market ther is no dominate player yet though UNBOX has taken a big leap forward, iTunes is using its audio dominance and hardware expertise to good advantage. Netflix is still dithering around and the other early entrants are all seeming to take a back seat though deals with Microsoft Xbox seem to be picking them back up.


in short this is still a horse race and the smart content providers will place their bets evenly across the board despite curent size.

[flatcurve]

I just have to throw out there that I've had an opportunity to play around with a Vudu, and it's pretty cool. The interface is awesome and so is the remote. The only major drawbacks are the lack of content and the cost... but my guess is that this will be changing eventually.

[HDTiVo]

That's because Amazon has found a way to get their service into the homes of thousands of Americans - thanks to TIVO.

ROFLMAO

[ZeoTiVo]

I just have to throw out there that I've had an opportunity to play around with a Vudu, and it's pretty cool. The interface is awesome and so is the remote. The only major drawbacks are the lack of content and the cost... but my guess is that this will be changing eventually.

kind of like the Kindle for Amazon then. Content and price will make my descisions in these kinds of things. I am not loking for a technological answer just for convenience itself. I do have Netflix and it works well. I can get books/newspapers and that works well enough.

It is when a download service works like netflix that I will jump in whole heartedly. I want a known amount of money monthly that my kids can not accidently exceed and I wnat to watch it on my time frame - if that means watching it twice in one week or in parts over a few days or whatever.

[CrashHD]

I believe most if not all studios have the 30 day storage, 24 hours once hit play option. This is due to the fact that it is the movie industry setting these limits and not the services. The issue lots have is with 24 hour watching is say something comes up in the middle of watching (cranky kid, falling asleep, friend in need, etc.) it is hard to get back within the 24 hour window to complete the viewing, especially since most have jobs the next day, etc.

What doesn't make sense to me, is how the unbox rental that disappears after 24 hours is different from the PPV I can record and keep until the end of electricity?

[flatcurve]

What doesn't make sense to me, is how the unbox rental that disappears after 24 hours is different from the PPV I can record and keep until the end of electricity?

new distibution, new rules. believe me, it probably doesn't make the studio happy that you've recorded PPV, but what can they do?

[Einselen]

new distibution, new rules. believe me, it probably doesn't make the studio happy that you've recorded PPV, but what can they do?

Also a lot of PPV now add flags (that work with the Tivo IIRC) in which you can only keep that recording for so long. But it is just different distribution methods. Like I can go out to Blockbuster and rent a movie and keep it from 3 "days" to 8 "days" (not full days hence the "days") and watch it multiple times or stop and start it over the course of the rental period yet that same movie from Movielink, Vongo PPV, Unbox, etc. only gives me a 24 hr viewing period.

[kas25]

Is that for OAR?

I have to say that all of my rentals have been widescreen. Am I doing something wrong?

Al

I don't notice as much for TV shows but movie rentals have black bars at top and bottom which take up a lot of the screen.

[wmcbrine]

When is Unbox going to format for widescreen? I am tired of the huge black bars at the top/bottom?The Aspect button is your friend.

Of course it would still be nice to have true widescreen, since that's 480 lines instead of 360. HD would be even nicer. I'm kinda doubtful that the SD will ever be delivered to Tivos in widescreen, because apparently some models have an issue with it, and they won't want to bother with multiple encodings. But maybe someday they'll give us HD?

[SnakeEyes]

Not true (http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=atv_dp_cs_pd?ie=UTF8&nodeId=3782#transferring).

Plays for Sure is a dead end, was never heavily supported by the consumer, and certainly isn't supported on the overwhelmingly dominate portable device with video viewing capabilities.

[acvthree]

I don't notice as much for TV shows but movie rentals have black bars at top and bottom which take up a lot of the screen.

As was stated, just use the aspect button.

For me, preserving OAR is important. I would prefer to see the entire movie I paid for, you would prefer to chop off the ends in order to fill the entire screen. It's all about choices and preferences and Tivo gives some control over this.

Al

[Phantom Gremlin]

As others have said, I too am astonished that the electronic distribution mechanism has so many more restrictions on it than the physical distribution mechanism. The studios do it because they can, not because it makes sense to.

There's an enormous cost to Netflix for them to let you keep a movie for a week or a month. It means they can't deliver that movie to anyone else! And yet they allow this. But there's no incremental cost to the studios to let you watch a movie several times over the course of a week. The cost is in delivering the movie to you. Not in letting you keep it on your box.

This behavior by the studios is from stupidity, malice, spite, or contempt. It has no rational business purpose.

I'm probably preaching to the choir with my rant.

[wmcbrine]

I would prefer to see the entire movie I paid for, you would prefer to chop off the ends in order to fill the entire screen.I didn't take his message that way. He asked for it to be "formatted for widescreen". To me that implies that he has a widescreen set, but is viewing a letterboxed 4:3 presentation in "postage stamp" format, because he has his aspect ratio set to "Panel" (or even "Full"?) instead of "Zoom", and doesn't know about the Aspect button.

Of course 2.35:1 movies still get letterboxed when presented 16:9, but I don't think that's what he was talking about.

As I think of it, Panel and Zoom probably only make sense if you're upconverting. If you're sending SD material as "Native" (480i or 480p), then you may have to rely on the TV to zoom. (But a widescreen TV is sure to have such a function.) I have my S3 set to send everything as 720p, but I don't remember what the default behavior is (much less do I know kas25's setup).

[JaneiR36]

There's an enormous cost to Netflix for them to let you keep a movie for a week or a month. It means they can't deliver that movie to anyone else! And yet they allow this.

Really? And I thought I was the loser in that situation. I have the 3 DVDs a month plan and of recent I just might rent only those three in a month. This means they don't have to ship me any more DVDs thoughout the month, yet they take their monthly fee as though they did. Renting 3 DVDs or 30 DVDs for me would cost the same.

Also, a lot of those disks do not look like originals. Almost as if Netflix has paid a flat rate to movie Studios so they can stock the DVDs and create enough copies to supply and satisfy their customer base.

I hear the shipping fees cost Netflix a lot of money, hence it's probably better for them if costumers only rent a few disks. However, Unbox et al do not have to deal with this either, so your point is well taken :D

[pkscout]

Man... you guys are tough. Surely you aren't denying that Apple and Ipod dominate the portable media market? That was my point.

Yea, but that isn't what you said. You basically said Unbox was dead because iTunes might be getting video rentals from one studio. I, at least, disagree with that assessment.

And I'd probably argue with "dominate." Apple has a strong market share for portable devices, and they are currently the one to beat. But there are many, many decent players out there for folks who don't want an iPod.

[RonDawg]

As was stated, just use the aspect button.

For me, preserving OAR is important. I would prefer to see the entire movie I paid for, you would prefer to chop off the ends in order to fill the entire screen. It's all about choices and preferences and Tivo gives some control over this.

The newer TiVo's (the S3 and HD) give you a choice as to how it's displayed on your TV. Older Tivo's do not, and I suspect that's the reason why Unbox automatically letterboxes downloads sent to TiVo's. Otherwise those of us still using 4:3 TV's would be forced to watch "tall and skinny" movies.

I do wish that Unbox would give you a choice between widescreen and letterboxed or full screen versions, the way many studios do with the DVD version.