H20 Upgrade: Which Channels Will I Keep, Which will I lose??

[Flogduh]

Calling all you Gurus (Earl, Mark, etc) for your perspective..I've been putting off the move from the HD DTivo to the new H20, not only waiting for the H20 to become "usable & reliable", but because I have a somewhat odd package of channels and I don't really want to lose some of what I have. I'm a legacy DTV customer (remember USSB anyone?), back in '95-'96 IIRC. I'm in the SF-Bay Area (CA) and outside of the normal and "gradfathered" Total Choice Plus package, my channel line up looks like this:

Network: NBC from NYC
Network: CBS from NYC
Network: FOX from NYC
DIRECTV DVR Service
Network: CBS HD
Network: FOX HD
Network: NBC HD
Network: ABC HD
TOTAL CHOICE PLUS
Courtesy HD Channels
HD Access

I realize I'll begin to receive the Bay Area Locals in HD and receive more HD channels, but should I expect to lose access to the SD NYC feeds and the HD Network feeds from LA? I expect to eventually lose the HD Network feeds from LA, but I really don't want to lose the SD feeds from the East Coast (I can get football games and can watch network shows earlier in the evening).

Any thoughts?

[ebonovic]

You will probably lose all HD DNS out of NY.

The SD feeds... depends on the waiver you received... some people have been allowed to keep them, since they are paying for them.

And yes... I remember having to pay two bills... one to DirecTV and one to USSB

[Flogduh]

Thanks Earl - The East Coast feeds are all SD, the only HD Networks I get are LA based - Already lost the East HD Networks a year ago.

Dan

[Flogduh]

Well, I got the "Free" Upgrade email today...finally. I asked the CRS to check my programming to tell me what I'd keep, what I'd lose, if I'd now have to pay more in programming costs. Remember, I don't pay a DVR fee today since I had a "Lifetime" Tivo subscription with all my Direct TV Tivos.

His response was....no change at all. I'd keep my East Coast SD Networks, keep the LA HD Networks, and of course get my locals in HD and all the other new HD offerings relevant to the current similar DTV programming package. Install is this Sunday, we'll see what we get......

[stevel]

I added an HR20 to my setup in August but have not (yet) lost CBSE and FOXE (the only distant networks I get). I do still have an HR10.

[TyroneShoes]

First, let's clear one little thing up. There is no official "grandfathering" of SD DNS channels, and hasn't been for many years. There was a NAB-driven landmark Florida circuit court judgment that struck that down completely about 2000, effectively eliminating all grandfathering, and instructing DBS vendors to cut anyone off who did not have a waiver from each local station in question.

But, lots of folks assume they are still grandfathered. Why? because there has not been anything other than tacit enforcement ever since right after that decision. There was a flurry of cutoffs, and then if just fell off everyone's radar. Bottom line? lots of illicit DNS subs still out there, all of them officially not protected by grandfathering or anything else.

The dirty little secret is that DBS is not motivated to cut you off, because you having that service (and thinking you're grandfathered) keeps you from straying somewhere else. They can continue to give it to you, don't really have to compensate anyone beyond what they get from you, don't therefore lose any revenue, and can simply look the other way, and that is pretty much what is done, and everybody's happy, including the local broadcasters who think DNS went away, yet it didn't.

Bottom line? You take a risk that they will notice an odd channel you are getting that you are not supposed to (and no one inside a red zipcode without a waiver is now supposed to get SD DNS, period), every time you call them for anything, but it is highly unlikely that some CSR "hall monitor" will narc on you or cut you off. They just don't need or want the hassle. Of course try to get DNS added without a waiver, "moving" to a white area, or an act of congress, and it's just not going to happen. If you have DNS in a red area, it "fell off the back of a truck".

But you won't want old SD DNS anyway, after HD. As far as HD channels go, some folks (if not all) who upgrade to the HR2x have lost 74 and 78, and may lose 79. It may eventually effect everyone. Once they move SD DNS to MPEG4, who knows who will still get it? Probably a lot fewer than who get it now, if they start checking the list closely.

HD DNS is a completely different ball game. There is no red zone waiver process, and if there were, net affils have solidarity about zero waivers these days. HD DNS is for some odd reason based solely on whether there are network owned and operated stations in your market. For instance in Phoenix, the FOX station is the only O&O (other than the FOX-owned MyTV outlet) which means that folks in that DMA who have HD access also get the FOX DNS station from LA automatically (usually--sometimes you have to prompt the CSR to get it added). But nothing else from DNS.

[JeffZ81]

Calling all you Gurus (Earl, Mark, etc) for your perspective..I've been putting off the move from the HD DTivo to the new H20, not only waiting for the H20 to become "usable & reliable", but because I have a somewhat odd package of channels and I don't really want to lose some of what I have. I'm a legacy DTV customer (remember USSB anyone?), back in '95-'96 IIRC. I'm in the SF-Bay Area (CA) and outside of the normal and "gradfathered" Total Choice Plus package, my channel line up looks like this:

Network: NBC from NYC
Network: CBS from NYC
Network: FOX from NYC
DIRECTV DVR Service
Network: CBS HD
Network: FOX HD
Network: NBC HD
Network: ABC HD
TOTAL CHOICE PLUS
Courtesy HD Channels
HD Access

I realize I'll begin to receive the Bay Area Locals in HD and receive more HD channels, but should I expect to lose access to the SD NYC feeds and the HD Network feeds from LA? I expect to eventually lose the HD Network feeds from LA, but I really don't want to lose the SD feeds from the East Coast (I can get football games and can watch network shows earlier in the evening).

Any thoughts?

You are "grandfathered" in (albeit I agree with Tyrone Shoes comments). You will NOT lose your DNS as long as you maintain your same address. However, if you switch to a current package I am not sure whether that would trigger a "replugging" in of all your channels and, thereby, a reexamination of your eligibility and possible a denial of the DNS? Your thoughts?

[Flogduh]

Took the dive this afternoon. Didn't lose either the east coast SD network feeds, nor the LA HD feeds. Did of course pick up my Bay Area HD locals and the other HD programming as expected.

Oh, and I did need to change the service address since it reflected an old address.....

Dan

Call it grandfathered, call it forgotten, or ignored, makes no difference to me. In my case, I have wavers from all my local networks for my East Coast SD feeds.

When I spoke to granfathered, I meant my base DTV package - I'm still identified as a Total Choice Plus ....