How many replacements can you get

[wheresmy6.3]

After being tortured with re-boots for a year, I finally broke down and used my protection plan to get the HR-20 for free. Of course I got to keep my HR10-250, which has been reliable after C&DE and disabling auto-recording of favorites. it seems that keeping the disk at a lower capcity eliminates re-boots.

So here's the question, since the "broken" HR10-250 is still active on my account can I use the protection plan again to get another HR-20? By the way, it's not like this was yesterday; it was few months ago. The HR-20 is not TIVO, but it's not horrible. With all the HD channels, I can live with the inferior interface.

[JimSpence]

I doubt you could "replace" the broken HR10 again.

Seems fraudulent to me.

And who knows? The 6.3f upgrade for the HR10 might fix its problem.

[incog-neato]

No.

So here's the question, since the "broken" HR10-250 is still active on my account can I use the protection plan again to get another HR-20?

[fjwagner]

I cant believe you would even ask. Sounds about as unethical as you can get even if they let you get away with it.

[wheresmy6.3]

As unethical as charging customers $299 for equipment they are leasing?; as unethical as changing the technology and charging customers to adapt to their technology?; as unethical as eliminating 3 of a handful of HD channels from the MPEG-2 receiver lineup and charging $4.99 to get them back; as unethical as putting people under contract for calling them?

As an owner of 4 add'l TIVOS (in addition to my HR20 and including 2 HR10-250s); and oh yes I paid big $$ for all of them as a 12 year D customer; I wanted to see if there was a limit on how many they would replace with what they consider advanced equipment. My first ever use of the protection plan was for the HR-20 and they had been begging me for months to give up the TIVO. Let's face it, if they were honorable, they would just replace all of my receiving equipment for free since they changed the technology. Me unethical, no; D unethical, yes.

[TonyTheTiger]

Not taking sides here, but according to you, if one side is unethical, it's NOT unethical for the other to screw them?

Two wrongs make a right in your book?

Don't think so!


(BTW, who are you really? We know you with another name, don't we?)

[kanderna]

When I finally decided to migrate, I just called retention and asked when my agreement was up (knowing I was not currently in an agreement). They asked why I was wondering and I mentioned a couple of the things you described above and thought this was an opportunity to explore further options. The rep promptly offered to swap all of my remaining receivers (H10, 2 HR10s)... I already owned one HR20.

This method has even worked when I was not out of agreement, but YMMV. Try ethical methods first... after that it's up to you.

[jimb726]

As unethical as charging customers $299 for equipment they are leasing?; as unethical as changing the technology and charging customers to adapt to their technology?; as unethical as eliminating 3 of a handful of HD channels from the MPEG-2 receiver lineup and charging $4.99 to get them back; as unethical as putting people under contract for calling them?

As an owner of 4 add'l TIVOS (in addition to my HR20 and including 2 HR10-250s); and oh yes I paid big $$ for all of them as a 12 year D customer; I wanted to see if there was a limit on how many they would replace with what they consider advanced equipment. My first ever use of the protection plan was for the HR-20 and they had been begging me for months to give up the TIVO. Let's face it, if they were honorable, they would just replace all of my receiving equipment for free since they changed the technology. Me unethical, no; D unethical, yes.

I dont see how those items are unethical. Maybe a bad idea in terms of the hundred thousand or so customers who still have a HD Tivo. And I am not sure that number is right. The conversion to MPEG4 was well known and documented. Everyone assumed that there would be a Tivo. You didnt pay 299 for a leased reciever you got a owned reciever for free, and you got to keep the old one to do with what you please. As much as this debate gets made, I wonder if people would be having it if there was an Mpeg4 Tivo?

[Scott D]

I dont see how those items are unethical. Maybe a bad idea in terms of the hundred thousand or so customers who still have a HD Tivo. And I am not sure that number is right. The conversion to MPEG4 was well known and documented. Everyone assumed that there would be a Tivo. You didnt pay 299 for a leased reciever you got a owned reciever for free, and you got to keep the old one to do with what you please. As much as this debate gets made, I wonder if people would be having it if there was an Mpeg4 Tivo?

Money making machine. When I purchased a TiVo, they put me on a contract. Called retention, and they took it off.

When I got the HR20, put me on a contract. During negotiations, tried to tell them that this was not an upgrade. I already had HD package and since they were changing the programming package to be MPEG4 which FORCES customers to get the MPEG4 machine, they said I must have contract. No exceptions. So I proceeded to say since I can't get all these new HD channels, can you cut the price a bit. Nope. Pay full price to get nothing, which will happen shortly.

Why do I say this? The DirecTiVo's hold their customers. There's no fear of losing them. As far as the new DVR goes, it's a must to put you on a 2 year contract because many people WILL leave. I know I would of, but I didn't. And do you know why??

oh, it's that darn contract!!:cool:

[fjwagner]

As unethical as charging customers $299 for equipment they are leasing?; as unethical as changing the technology and charging customers to adapt to their technology?; as unethical as eliminating 3 of a handful of HD channels from the MPEG-2 receiver lineup and charging $4.99 to get them back; as unethical as putting people under contract for calling them?
.

D* is not being unethical, they have developed a pricing strategy that you can either agree to or move on. That is the way business works.

[jimb726]

Money making machine. When I purchased a TiVo, they put me on a contract. Called retention, and they took it off.

When I got the HR20, put me on a contract. During negotiations, tried to tell them that this was not an upgrade. I already had HD package and since they were changing the programming package to be MPEG4 which FORCES customers to get the MPEG4 machine, they said I must have contract. No exceptions. So I proceeded to say since I can't get all these new HD channels, can you cut the price a bit. Nope. Pay full price to get nothing, which will happen shortly.

Why do I say this? The DirecTiVo's hold their customers. There's no fear of losing them. As far as the new DVR goes, it's a must to put you on a 2 year contract because many people WILL leave. I know I would of, but I didn't. And do you know why??

oh, it's that darn contract!!:cool:

I certainly understand the whole contract issue. But my point was, they had the contracts before they had HR20's, there are countless posts of people who are finding out that the HR10 they have is leased and not owned and that brought me to my final thought, would we be having this discussion about commitments if it was a poorly designed TiVo HDDVR? Then people would have to blame the TiVo programmers. I only toss that out because as even the most spirited defenders of the TiVo will recognize the speedbumps 4 or 5 years ago upon launch. As you have said to others, it is fine for what I want and does what I want, I didnt use most of the missing features with the exception of Dual Live Buffers. And again as far as the commitment is concerned you either take it or leave it, fortunately in your case you found out about it and were able to make the decision based on that information.

[Scott D]

I certainly understand the whole contract issue. But my point was, they had the contracts before they had HR20's, there are countless posts of people who are finding out that the HR10 they have is leased and not owned and that brought me to my final thought, would we be having this discussion about commitments if it was a poorly designed TiVo HDDVR? Then people would have to blame the TiVo programmers. I only toss that out because as even the most spirited defenders of the TiVo will recognize the speedbumps 4 or 5 years ago upon launch. As you have said to others, it is fine for what I want and does what I want, I didnt use most of the missing features with the exception of Dual Live Buffers. And again as far as the commitment is concerned you either take it or leave it, fortunately in your case you found out about it and were able to make the decision based on that information.

If TiVo was poorly programmed I would do the same thing. And I have too.

It's not the point I am making. Perhaps I didn't explain myself. Maybe because it was my fault for not doing it.:D

DirecTV said that the HR20/21 DVR's are far more superior than the HR10 TiVo's. So, when I got one, I checked it out and what I found out is they're nowhere close to being a complete DVR system. These items I looked at were the very same things that both machines were capable of doing and I wanted to see if the new unit was equal to, greater than or not up to specs, feature by feature. It is totally unfair to test two systems when one of them doesn't contain that function. As I said about comparing the built in GPS systems in cars to portable GPS's, is it fair to compare Bluetooth technology on the portable GPS when the built in GPS doesn't contain that feature? No it wouldn't. And so I did the the right thing. A fair test.

It doesn't matter if you use this or that feature or not. The question is, if you were to put that particular feature in there, does it work or does it display useful information. Some are good and some need to be fixed or removed. Simply put, after looking it over carefully, the HR20, which is what I have, needs some serious work.:cool:

[jimb726]

If TiVo was poorly programmed I would do the same thing. And I have too.

It's not the point I am making. Perhaps I didn't explain myself. Maybe because it was my fault for not doing it.:D

DirecTV said that the HR20/21 DVR's are far more superior than the HR10 TiVo's. So, when I got one, I checked it out and what I found out is they're nowhere close to being a complete DVR system. These items I looked at were the very same things that both machines were capable of doing and I wanted to see if the new unit was equal to, greater than or not up to specs, feature by feature. It is totally unfair to test two systems when one of them doesn't contain that function. As I said about comparing the built in GPS systems in cars to portable GPS's, is it fair to compare Bluetooth technology on the portable GPS when the built in GPS doesn't contain that feature? No it wouldn't. And so I did the the right thing. A fair test.

It doesn't matter if you use this or that feature or not. The question is, if you were to put that particular feature in there, does it work or does it display useful information. Some are good and some need to be fixed or removed. Simply put, after looking it over carefully, the HR20, which is what I have, needs some serious work.:cool:

Scott I see where you are going and I absolutely agree. I guess what applies to the user is the most important and in this case, the HR20 does what I ask it to and it does it as well as any DVR I have ever had. At the bottom of the whole issue is the fact that the Directv box was designed to work for the majority, and I think that once you get away from the users at this site it really does apply. For Directv a dvr is a means to their service, and the dvr was secondary. For TiVo I think they had to design a niche box so it would give a person a reason to switch over. If all you are concerned with is recording shows and watching shows than whether a dvr comes from directv or tv or the cable company, it isnt going to matter whether it has a zillion features. If a person is looking for the additional bells and whistles than certainly the tivo is the way to go with it.

[Scott D]

Scott I see where you are going and I absolutely agree. I guess what applies to the user is the most important and in this case, the HR20 does what I ask it to and it does it as well as any DVR I have ever had. At the bottom of the whole issue is the fact that the Directv box was designed to work for the majority, and I think that once you get away from the users at this site it really does apply. For Directv a dvr is a means to their service, and the dvr was secondary. For TiVo I think they had to design a niche box so it would give a person a reason to switch over. If all you are concerned with is recording shows and watching shows than whether a dvr comes from directv or tv or the cable company, it isnt going to matter whether it has a zillion features. If a person is looking for the additional bells and whistles than certainly the tivo is the way to go with it.

Yes, the recording side works fine. It's not the recording side I'm complaining about. Yes it's true that the HR20 never missed a show. Kudos to it. My problem is that I can't successfully look for a show I like in certain categories. I sometimes look into the recording history to find out why certain programs didn't get recorded. It very rare but I use it nonetheless. Well, I can't use it with this one. It doesn't tell me anything except a show didn't get recorded. At least TiVo did and did it very well.

You can have your own style of liking or disliking a product all you want but consider this for a moment. If you are going to put a function into the DVR, shouldn't it work well to some degree? shouldn't it bu useful to a point where, when used, will give you some sort of logical information? If you don't want any of those features, that's fine. Kind of like the TiVo Suggestions thing. At least they made it where you can turn it off!:D

That's what I'm saying. If DirecTV didn't want to put those things in there, then remove them. Most of them don't work.:o

[jimb726]

Yes, the recording side works fine. It's not the recording side I'm complaining about. Yes it's true that the HR20 never missed a show. Kudos to it. My problem is that I can't successfully look for a show I like in certain categories. I sometimes look into the recording history to find out why certain programs didn't get recorded. It very rare but I use it nonetheless. Well, I can't use it with this one. It doesn't tell me anything except a show didn't get recorded. At least TiVo did and did it very well.

You can have your own style of liking or disliking a product all you want but consider this for a moment. If you are going to put a function into the DVR, shouldn't it work well to some degree? shouldn't it bu useful to a point where, when used, will give you some sort of logical information? If you don't want any of those features, that's fine. Kind of like the TiVo Suggestions thing. At least they made it where you can turn it off!:D

That's what I'm saying. If DirecTV didn't want to put those things in there, then remove them. Most of them don't work.:o

Yes it should, but at the same time, when you say that something isnt working as it should or work well to a degree I guess I misunderstood what you were talking about. Other than the Channels I get feature not working, what else doesnt work properly or as advertised? And believe me I am not asking to be a jerk, just wondering. As I said for what I need and for the way I use mine, I dont see anything that doesnt work exactly the way it should. Other than the CIG issue. I guess what I am getting at, are the features not working the way TiVo did them or are they just not working. I guess my example would be the guide, I hear people say that the guide is terrible because its a grid style, instead of TiVo style, for lack of a better word. So just because it isnt TiVo style doesnt mean its poorly designed, it means its not designes as a TiVo user would design it.

[Texceo]

As unethical as charging customers $299 for equipment they are leasing?; as unethical as changing the technology and charging customers to adapt to their technology?; as unethical as eliminating 3 of a handful of HD channels from the MPEG-2 receiver lineup and charging $4.99 to get them back; as unethical as putting people under contract for calling them?

As an owner of 4 add'l TIVOS (in addition to my HR20 and including 2 HR10-250s); and oh yes I paid big $$ for all of them as a 12 year D customer; I wanted to see if there was a limit on how many they would replace with what they consider advanced equipment. My first ever use of the protection plan was for the HR-20 and they had been begging me for months to give up the TIVO. Let's face it, if they were honorable, they would just replace all of my receiving equipment for free since they changed the technology. Me unethical, no; D unethical, yes.

They probably have to charge this much to make up for the lose that people like you try to steal from them!

[Scott D]

Yes it should, but at the same time, when you say that something isnt working as it should or work well to a degree I guess I misunderstood what you were talking about. Other than the Channels I get feature not working, what else doesnt work properly or as advertised? And believe me I am not asking to be a jerk, just wondering. As I said for what I need and for the way I use mine, I dont see anything that doesnt work exactly the way it should. Other than the CIG issue. I guess what I am getting at, are the features not working the way TiVo did them or are they just not working. I guess my example would be the guide, I hear people say that the guide is terrible because its a grid style, instead of TiVo style, for lack of a better word. So just because it isnt TiVo style doesnt mean its poorly designed, it means its not designes as a TiVo user would design it.

I sent the information you wanted to know about in your PM.:D

[jimb726]

I sent the information you wanted to know about in your PM.:D

Got it. Thanks Scott.

[Mark Lopez]

I sometimes look into the recording history to find out why certain programs didn't get recorded. It very rare but I use it nonetheless. Well, I can't use it with this one. It doesn't tell me anything except a show didn't get recorded. At least TiVo did and did it very well.


LOL. Yeah like the very informative and accurate Someone in your household (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/search.php?searchid=3312410) red herring. :rolleyes: