Which way and how long before we get there?

[KrazyKevin]

Right now we have an old samsung series 2 tivo. We now have a sony wega 50" and I'm wanting HD. What should I do? Wait for tivo or go Directv way? How does the pic quality compare to comcast HD? I'm ready to move forward, but I really love tivo? What would you do?

[JimSpence]

Comcast in one area can be quite a bit different from another, so it makes it difficult to make a comparison. Having said that, I have DirecTV with the HR20 MPEG4 capable HD receiver and the picture is very good. I've been a TiVo user for many years and moved to the HR20 with an open mind. Is it different than a TiVo? Yes. But, it is a good DVR.

[milominderbinder]

...I'm wanting HD. What should I do? Wait for tivo...?Wait for TiVo to do what?

The current TiVo-DIRECTV agreement goes until 1/1/2011. TiVo gave DIRECTV every one of their 82 patents.

Are you thinking that DIRECTV might go a different dirrection in 2011?

- Craig

[TyroneShoes]

Comcast in one area can be quite a bit different from another, so it makes it difficult to make a comparison...
That would be a true statement for analog cable systems in general, but for digital HD channels, as long as a cable company uses the standard techniques of demodulating 8VSB (or accepting a fiber feed from the station) for local channels, and does not decode/re-encode sat-delivered channels, PID-filters, and remodulates to QAM, there should be no degradation in quality whatsoever, meaning that cable-delivered HD should be of exceptionally-similar quality everywhere, and should be virtually the same as OTA quality.

[KrazyKevin]

I thought I had read somewhere on the board that tivo and directv were having issues. I thought that directv was making there own DVRS and tivo was left behind as far as directv is concerned. Thats why I asked.

[RS4]

I thought I had read somewhere on the board that tivo and directv were having issues. I thought that directv was making there own DVRS and tivo was left behind as far as directv is concerned. Thats why I asked.

Yes, DirecTV has their own dvrs now. You cannot get any of their new HD channels with the existing DTivo dvrs so you will have to use one of theirs if you want to stay with DirecTV.

DirecTV has no trial period of the new dvr, so it will cost you $480 (or less - on a sliding scale) if you don't like it, and you have to sign up for a 2-year commitment. Also, be aware that they have their own user interface that is not like Tivo. While many people get used to it, others don't like it at all.

[20TIL6]

TiVo gave DIRECTV every one of their 82 patents.
- Craig

Craig, can you provide a link to that information? I only understood that there was a 3 year support extension. I have never read a PR from TiVo or DTV that spells out that DTV can continue to use TiVo IP beyond that three years. I am not saying it is not the case, just that I have never seen evidence of it.

BTW, I have emailed TiVo investor relations and asked this question. Basically, does DirecTV have the rights to use TiVo IP and patents beyond the 3 year extension that was agreed to in early 2006? I'll let you know how they respond.

[KrazyKevin]

thanks for all the replies. Looks like I got some deciding to do!!!

[Citivas]

That would be a true statement for analog cable systems in general, but for digital HD channels, as long as a cable company uses the standard techniques of demodulating 8VSB (or accepting a fiber feed from the station) for local channels, and does not decode/re-encode sat-delivered channels, PID-filters, and remodulates to QAM, there should be no degradation in quality whatsoever, meaning that cable-delivered HD should be of exceptionally-similar quality everywhere, and should be virtually the same as OTA quality.

Perhaps, but either that's not happening or people have very subjective interpretations. Comcast's HD signal where I live is substantially better than DirecTV's. I have the DirecTV signal but my neighbors all have Comcast and always complain about my HD PQ. And I tried Comcast free for 6 months and noticed the difference immediately and did some side-by-side comparisons... The DirecTV signal is fine for the most part so I am not dissing it. I am just pointing out that local Comcast feeds looked better, particularly PBS, which I still can't get on DirecTV. PBS was the channel I always used to demo to friends because it was stunning -- closest comparison is how the Planet Earth series looks on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD on a 1080p set.

[ebonovic]

BTW, I have emailed TiVo investor relations and asked this question. Basically, does DirecTV have the rights to use TiVo IP and patents beyond the 3 year extension that was agreed to in early 2006? I'll let you know how they respond.

No they don't....

The inclusion of that clause to the extension, was at the same time TiVo was going after DishNetwork.

It basically protect DirecTV if one of their developed technologies infringes (but isn't directly copied), on one of their patents.

It doesn't give DirecTV "free" access to their patent's.

As for what happens after the time period... in 2011... time will tell.

[milominderbinder]

Craig, can you provide a link to that information? I only understood that there was a 3 year support extension. I have never read a PR from TiVo or DTV that spells out that DTV can continue to use TiVo IP beyond that three years. I am not saying it is not the case, just that I have never seen evidence of it.

BTW, I have emailed TiVo investor relations and asked this question. Basically, does DirecTV have the rights to use TiVo IP and patents beyond the 3 year extension that was agreed to in early 2006? I'll let you know how they respond.

TiVo Contract/Patent Licenses Extended Through 2010 (http://seekingalpha.com/article/9028-directv-can-t-kick-the-tivo-habit-dtv-tivo)
• TiVo (TIVO) announced yesterday that they have extended their agreement with DirecTV Group (DTV) for three years. In addition to this, both parties have agreed to not assert patent rights against each other. The previous agreement was due to expire in 2007.

- Craig

[joed32]

Yes, DirecTV has their own dvrs now. You cannot get any of their new HD channels with the existing DTivo dvrs so you will have to use one of theirs if you want to stay with DirecTV.

DirecTV has no trial period of the new dvr, so it will cost you $480 (or less - on a sliding scale) if you don't like it, and you have to sign up for a 2-year commitment. Also, be aware that they have their own user interface that is not like Tivo. While many people get used to it, others don't like it at all.

Where did you see $480? CC has them for $299.

[robnalex]

Where did you see $480? CC has them for $299.Consider the source. RS4 has a fondness for hyperbole. New customers or current customers who are not currently under a service agreement can get one for free and/or with the cost offset by credits. Current customers should talk to a rep in the Retention department for the best deal.

[20TIL6]

TiVo Contract/Patent Licenses Extended Through 2010 (http://seekingalpha.com/article/9028-directv-can-t-kick-the-tivo-habit-dtv-tivo)
• TiVo (TIVO) announced yesterday that they have extended their agreement with DirecTV Group (DTV) for three years. In addition to this, both parties have agreed to not assert patent rights against each other. The previous agreement was due to expire in 2007.

- Craig

So the big question is.... and I guess it is open for interpretation.

Did they agree to not assert patent rights against each other during only the three years, or is this statement apart from the three year agreement? Can DTV use the TiVo IP and patents that existed at the time of the agreement for time periods beyond 2010?

If I read Earl's comments correctly, it sounds like things reset (patent rights issues) between the two companies after this current agreement runs out.

I still have this question pending an answer from TiVo IR.

[Church AV Guy]

Consider the source. RS4 has a fondness for hyperbole. New customers or current customers who are not currently under a service agreement can get one for free and/or with the cost offset by credits. Current customers should talk to a rep in the Retention department for the best deal.

I think RS4 was saying that if you get a DirecTV DVR, they have no trial period. When you get it, you also sign up for a two year commitment, no grace period. If you hate the new DVR, it will cost you $20 per month to buy out your commitment, for 24 months, meaning $480 to get RID of the DirecTV DVR if you hate it. In order to get the service at all, you must sign for the commitment. There are very few exceptions.

[TyroneShoes]

Perhaps, but either that's not happening or people have very subjective interpretations. Comcast's HD signal where I live is substantially better than DirecTV's. I have the DirecTV signal but my neighbors all have Comcast and always complain about my HD PQ. And I tried Comcast free for 6 months and noticed the difference immediately and did some side-by-side comparisons... The DirecTV signal is fine for the most part so I am not dissing it. I am just pointing out that local Comcast feeds looked better, particularly PBS, which I still can't get on DirecTV. PBS was the channel I always used to demo to friends because it was stunning -- closest comparison is how the Planet Earth series looks on Blue-Ray or HD-DVD on a 1080p set.

My statement had nothing to do with DTV vs. cable as far as PQ goes, it was strictly information about how cable companies, should they use standard procedures, will have virtually no plant or STB PQ degradation from the original signal they receive at the cable headend, which by default makes HD cable PQ at the STB nearly identical system to system and vendor to vendor.

There is indeed some degradation of DTV quality compared to cable or OTA. While it should not be noticeable for the most part, it seems to be by many. I, personally, see a slight difference in quality between the two myself. Cable PQ should be virtually the same as OTA quality. DBS quality, especially DTV 1080i quality and MPEG-4 quality (by virtue of it being re-encoded with a different algorithm), can't technically ever meet the same quality level as OTA or cable. But it's pretty close.

[TyroneShoes]

No they don't....

The inclusion of that clause to the extension, was at the same time TiVo was going after DishNetwork.

It basically protect DirecTV if one of their developed technologies infringes (but isn't directly copied), on one of their patents.

It doesn't give DirecTV "free" access to their patent's.

As for what happens after the time period... in 2011... time will tell.

Well, we know for certain the agreement ends and when, but we don't know if another agreement or another extension will change the outcome. Unlikely on both counts, would be my best guess.

Maybe this is well known, but is the reason for the extended agreement (on DTV's part) strictly insurance against a lawsuit? IOW, might DTV agressively have killed the DirecTivo had they not been cowed into this agreement, with the stipulation that Tivo would not then sue them as well? If so, that is virtually the same as having free reign of Tivo's technology, other than exact GUI construction and exact naming of features.

Although the agreement was reached in 2006 and is a "3-year" extension, would not that extension be to the point in time when the original agreement ends (likely 12-31-2007) rather than 3 years from the point in time the agreement was reached?

[TyroneShoes]

Consider the source. RS4 has a fondness for hyperbole...
I'm not sure about RS4, although that sounds a little slanderous. Whether hyperbole is rampant or not, the $480 number is right there in black and white in the fine print. If I knew where I saw it I would direct you, but RS4 is accurate about this.

Now what the number means can be something altogether. I think it could be decided on a case-by-case basis, meaning if you have a good story and a good relationship with whoever you deal with at DTV, the entire thing or part of it could be waived. IOW, if they can keep you as a customer and you didn't cause them to reimburse a "free" $200 install just last month and then cancel service, you're probably not going to have a $480 problem. If your story is fishy or you piss them off, they have the right to hit you for the entire $480, and likely will. And they should. My advice would be to not do that.

[gio1269]

While many people get used to it, others don't like it at all.And many more people prefer it to the Tivo Interface. I do, but I will also say there was nothing wrong with the Tivo GUI.

[gio1269]

Right now we have an old samsung series 2 tivo. We now have a sony wega 50" and I'm wanting HD. What should I do? Wait for tivo or go Directv way? How does the pic quality compare to comcast HD? I'm ready to move forward, but I really love tivo? What would you do?

Where I live Comcast HD stinks. There SD sucks as well. D* HD is better as the SD stuff. To my eyes, D* HD is as good as OTA here. Or very, very close. I really can't tell which is which on my Plasma.

The HR20/21 DVR is NOT Tivo. Somme like it better and some don't. With the latest updates the past few months it's a very stable machine. Much better than the 6.3 Tivo crap.

Go to your local BB store and check out the interface. Spend a few minutes looking it over and see if you will like it. t has some nice features, but it's missing some as well that die hard Tivo lovers will miss. You will know in a few minutes if you will like it.

I had no choice as I hat Comcrap. There DVRs suck and I not buying a S3.
I in general like D*. I only paid $99 (owned and 1 yr commit)for my HR10 and received my HR20 for free. Plus I now prefer the HR20/21 GUI over Tivo and would probably not wan to go back. Unless D* came back with a Tivo that had all there features plus the HR20' and it's performance.

[gio1269]

I'm not sure about RS4, although that sounds a little slanderous. Whether hyperbole is rampant or not, the $480 number is right there in black and white in the fine print. If I knew where I saw it I would direct you, but RS4 is accurate about this.

Now what the number means can be something altogether. I think it could be decided on a case-by-case basis, meaning if you have a good story and a good relationship with whoever you deal with at DTV, the entire thing or part of it could be waived. IOW, if they can keep you as a customer and you didn't cause them to reimburse a "free" $200 install just last month and then cancel service, you're probably not going to have a $480 problem. If your story is fishy or you piss them off, they have the right to hit you for the entire $480, and likely will. And they should. My advice would be to not do that.Yes, $20 a month is accurate.