Samsung HD300LD bad vibrations

[benallenuk]

Hi Guys and girls, I ve check the forums for keywords samsung and vibrations but no joy.

Ive just moved house, removing tivo from a wooden tv cabinet with a circular hole the size of the fan cut out on the back so Tivo suck in cold air from outside, temps are in the normal range. Anyway after setting Tivo up in the new house I noticed bad vibration comming from tivo, like you would get if a blade snaps off a 12volt fan and it becomes un balanced. So first thing i do is check the fan, not wanting to take tivo appart I poked a piece of paper in the grill to stop the fan, Fan stops and the vibration still remaimns. I think that the Samsung drive maybe at fault, or could it be a mains supply problem, like off frequency or low power?

Cheers

Ben

[blindlemon]

All 7200rpm drives vibrate a bit and when transmitted to a resonant chamber like an AV cabinet, this can sometimes result in an audible hum.

Some are worse than others but Samsungs are normally pretty good - especially the T133 series. Have you tried putting the TiVo on some bits of mousemat or other soft rubber to isolate it from the shelf? Also, check that the drive is securely mounted inside the TiVo.

Failing that, if the drive is vibrating very badly then raise an RMA request via www.rexo.co.uk, send it back and they will replace it. They normally take about 3-4 days.

If you are especially sensitive to hum, or if your AV cabinet is extremely resonant then you might want to consider swapping to an HA250JC instead. These run at 5760rpm and normally have so little vibration I have to double-check they're plugged in! :up:

[benallenuk]

WOW, thanks for the useful info. I will take TiVo apart tonight and see if its all ok inside, if the hd is faulty i'll get it replaced, cheers.

ben

[benallenuk]

OK, Latest update. Taken TiVo apart, cleaned the dust out of the fan. I checked the HD mountings and all are tight. When you turn TiVo on the samsung HD makes all the usual sounds, 1 sec later it spins up to 7200rpm but sounds like an old 52x CDROM drive taking off Is the drive poorly? If i get it replaced under waranty will i have time to copy one drive to another before i send the old one back?

Thanks

Ben

[Pete77]

Is the drive poorly?

Sounds like it but can you post on an audio file for blindlemon to listen to.

If i get it replaced under waranty will i have time to copy one drive to another before i send the old one back?

Unfortunately they make you send back the old drive under the RMA process before you get sent a new one. So you would have to copy the drive to some other drive you have before you send it back.

[TCM2007]

Unfortunately they make you send back the old drive under the RMA process before you get sent a new one. So you would have to copy the drive to some other drive you have before you send it back.

Really? That's not been my experience of RMA'd hard drives. You give a credit card, they send you a new drive and you have x days to return the faulty one to them. If you don't they charge the credit card.

[blindlemon]

Really? That's not been my experience of RMA'd hard drives. You give a credit card, they send you a new drive and you have x days to return the faulty one to them. If you don't they charge the credit card.You're thinking of Maxtor - the company with the fastest, slickest RMA process in the world! :p:D

Samsung don't get that many returns...

[blindlemon]

When you turn TiVo on the samsung HD makes all the usual sounds, 1 sec later it spins up to 7200rpm but sounds like an old 52x CDROM drive taking off Is the drive poorly? They all make a rising whine and a clunk when spinning up - that's normal. Excessive vibration after that is not.

[Pete77]

Really? That's not been my experience of RMA'd hard drives. You give a credit card, they send you a new drive and you have x days to return the faulty one to them. If you don't they charge the credit card.

I have never RMA'ed a hard drive so perhaps they have different procedures to allow for the data copying issue.

Other products I have RMA'ed require the faulty item to be sent in to them first.

[Pete77]

You're thinking of Maxtor - the company with the fastest, slickest RMA process in the world! :p:D

Samsung don't get that many returns...

Looks like a case of Pete being right and TCM being wrong then.;):p

I was pretty sure that in his earlier posts regarding Samsung RMA'ng that blindlemon had mentioned having to send the faulty drive back first.

[benallenuk]

Its a low pitch humm, It been in the cabinet before and not made the noise, so its gotta be a duff hd.

Ill arrange a collection and replacement.

Thanks for the advice

[mikerr]

You're thinking of Maxtor - the company with the fastest, slickest RMA process in the world! :p:D

Maxtor sell more drives than anyone else....
Samsung don't get that many returns...
..because they don't sell that many drives either ? ;)

It's rare to see a samsung in an OEM PC or PVR etc, it's all maxtor.

Samsung have quietness in their favour, but maxtor suffers from a reputation more than any solid evidence IMO

[blindlemon]

..because they don't sell that many drives either ? ;)Samsung has about 10% of the global hard drive market (after Seagate, WD, Hitachi) which is expected to run to about 520m drives this year (http://isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=8622&m=11&y=2007) - and I wouldn't personally call 52m drives 'not many"... ;)

[Pete77]

Samsung has about 10% of the global hard drive market (after Seagate, WD, Hitachi) which is expected to run to about 520m drives this year (http://isuppli.com/news/default.asp?id=8622&m=11&y=2007) - and I wouldn't personally call 52m drives 'not many"... ;)

Also not being one of the big boys may allow them to focus on quality instead of quantity.;):up:

[blindlemon]

If i get it replaced under waranty will i have time to copy one drive to another before i send the old one back?One way round this would be to buy a second drive first, copy the stuff across then sell the RMA replacement on eBay.

Unlike Seagate (who send out reconditioned drives with a green band around the label), www.rexo.co.uk always send out new drives IME (although with a correctly reduced warranty period) so you could sell the replacement drive as new, sealed and with x years warranty. Depending on how much you pay for the second drive, you shouldn't be out more than a few ££ ;):up:

[RichardJH]

One way round this would be to buy a second drive first, copy the stuff across then sell the RMA replacement on eBay

Why not take a backup and wait for new drive then restore the backup

[Pete77]

Why not take a backup and wait for new drive then restore the backup

What about a backup with loads of recordings?

[RichardJH]

That was what I meant a full backup

[Pete77]

That was what I meant a full backup

What do you take the backup on to if you don't have the new drive?:rolleyes::(

[RichardJH]

Put the compressed image on another PC HD cannot remember the exact command line using MFStools and keep it until ready to restore.

[TCM2007]

Looks like a case of Pete being right and TCM being wrong then.;):p

I was pretty sure that in his earlier posts regarding Samsung RMA'ng that blindlemon had mentioned having to send the faulty drive back first.

Indeed, although that seems to be a big black mark against Samsung which Samsung fans fail to mention when singing their praises over other brands!

And it's not as if Samsungs never fail so it's not relevant!

[Pete77]

And it's not as if Samsungs never fail so it's not relevant!

May be the Samsung HA250JCs never fail but certainly their other drives do.

I have a failed Samsung MP0804H 2.5" notebook drive from my Notebook PC that needs RMA'ng sitting here in front of me. It lasted 30 months.

[blindlemon]

Then you'd better RMA it ASAP! The warranty is 36 months ;)

All manufactures have drives that fail. That's what RMAs are for. I have even had to send back HA250JCs (although very few)!

[benallenuk]

Hi I have a reference to send the Samsung drive back, but I dont want to be without Tivo for a week or so. What options do I have? I have a spare 8GB drive can I copy across the tivo system + hacks without any recordings? If not I have a 500GB SATA drive in my media PC, what command for mfs tools would I use to copy across the tivo files and settings as an image so I can restore to a new drive? The 500Gb drive has 2 partitions, c: (20GB) and d: (the rest). I plan to do this tommorrow.

Thanks for previous help.

Ben

[blindlemon]

You need a drive >= 30gb to create a working UK TiVo image.

You should be able to use the 500gb SATA drive with a converter.

[benallenuk]

Hmm, think i'll just do an image on the 500gb, which i'll restore to new drive when it arrives.

Cheers

Ben

[blindlemon]

Yes, you could use that as a temporary staging drive even if you don't put it in your TiVo. Delete all the unwanted recordings first and then run my PurgeDeleted (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=4416485#post4416485) script to clear them from the deleted shows list, so that you only copy what you want to keep. A suitable command line for MFSTools would be

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdX | mfsrestore -s 300 -r4 -xzpi - /dev/hdY

You would use exactly the same command to re-copy the image and recordings back to the replacement drive which should arrive pretty quickly (normally within a week) from www.rexo.co.uk.

[Pete77]

I have a spare 8GB drive can I copy across the tivo system + hacks without any recordings?

You need a drive >= 30gb to create a working UK TiVo image.

Why is 30Gb minimum needed for an image if he ditches all his recordings first? If that is actually the amount of space needed for an image with no recordings then surely a standard Tivo couldn't hold more than 10 hours or so of recordings at Basic and/or expanding my Tivo to 500Gb would have increased the recording capacity 50 to 60 fold rather than 15 fold?

Previous info I have read on taking backup images suggests only around 1Gb is needed for the Tivo image without any recordings.

For instance:- www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html

Where it says:-

Now connect your existing Tivo hard drive (the one you took out of Tivo), to your PC as follows:

* Primary Master IDE cable - FAT32 hard disk of size > 1Gig. (remember to set the jumper switch on the drive to Master). This be used to save the backup image.
* Primary Slave IDE cable - empty (if you have a twin drive machine - connect your B drive here, jumper set to SLAVE)
* Secondary Master IDE cable - Tivo drive (Place your A drive here if you have a twin drive machine). Set the jumper to MASTER
* Secondary Slave IDE cable - CDROM drive (jumper set to Slave).

So how does a hard drive with 1Gb of free hard drive space needed for an image now become one with 30Gb of free space??????????

[mikerr]

I have a spare 8GB drive can I copy across the tivo system + hacks without any recordings?
You need a drive >= 30gb to create a working UK TiVo image.
Why is 30Gb minimum needed for an image if he ditches all his recordings first?
Confusion reigns ;)

30GB is the minimum size of disk to be used inside a tivo.

The OP maybe wanted to run the tivo off an 8GB drive...not possible.
He'd need an IDE/PATA drive of 30GB+ to do that.

Storing the compressed image file itself only takes up around 350Mb though.
So we do that, and later expand it out onto a drive of over 30GB...

[Pete77]

Confusion reigns ;)

30GB is the minimum size of disk to be used inside a tivo.

Does the Tivo software check hard drive A is at least 30Gb in size and refuse to run if it is smaller than this then?

We already know it doesn't mind hard drive B only being 15Gb in size (due to all the two drive Tivos with 15Gb Drive Bs on board)

[mikerr]

I might have to go back on that statement, as there were 13GB tivos sold originally... ;)
It depends on the image you use.

Either way, 8GB is too small.

[Pete77]

I might have to go back on that statement, as there were 15GB tivos sold originally... ;)

I *think* the currrent UK tivo images will only shrink to 30GB using current mfstools.

Either way, 8GB is too small.

So why does steve conrad seem to think that 1Gb is enough to image a Tivo OS that does not have any recordings?

[mikerr]

..because storing an image file (1GB) on a disk and booting a tivo from a disk (30GB) are different things !

[blindlemon]

So how does a hard drive with 1Gb of free hard drive space needed for an image now become one with 30Gb of free space??????????The key word in what I said was working ;)

An archived backup takes around 1gb (uncompressed) or 350mb (compressed) as mikerr says. However, to get that backup working on a UK TiVo you need a drive of at least 30gb as the smallest original "A" drive (and hence the smallest working image) was 30gb. In the US, smaller "A" drives were initially used, but we can't use backups from US machines so that's irrelevant. The size of the "B" drive is also irrelevant. The OP's question implied that he was thinking of making a working system with an 8gb drive, which is not possible.

Sorry to disappoint you by not slipping up there Pete :p:D

[Pete77]

Sorry to disappoint you by not slipping up there Pete :p:D

I know you always appreciate the opportunity to demonstrate your own superior practical expertise in these matters compared to my pathethic lack of regular actual hands on Tivo upgrading experience.:o:(

[blindlemon]

I know you always appreciate the opportunity to demonstrate your own superior practical expertise in these matters compared to my pathethic lack of regular actual hands on Tivo upgrading experience.:o:(And I thank you for giving me that opportunity on such a regular basis Pete ;)

Have a very Happy New Year :)

[Pete77]

And I thank you for giving me that opportunity on such a regular basis Pete ;)

As I'm sure mikerr also does.

I notice he has now also adopted your tactic of listing his Tivo upgrading website as part of his Tivocommunity member profile description.;)

[mikerr]

Listing the website on the left isn't really a tactic as such, more a declaration of bias ;)

You'll notice this if I start saying every problem is due to bad disks, and you need to buy new ones :eek:;)

[Pete77]

You'll notice this if I start saying every problem is due to bad disks, and you need to buy new ones :eek:;)

I have to say I'm still inclined to believe that the increasing shortage of formerly plentiful spare Tivo power supplies and the consequent spiralling up in prices is because a certain Tivo upgrader at one stage suggested replacing one's Tivo power supply as a magic cure for all manner of Tivo ills. This included spontaneous Tivo rebooting when using Tivoweb but as we now know this is largely inherent in the instability of the software with an EPG the size of Sky's.

I see that lately the upgrader in question has instead moved towards getting people to turn up the blue pot on their power supply first as an alternative to simply ripping out the old power supply and replacing it straight away. I only hope that there aren't any deceased former Tivo users who owe their demise to attempting to replace the power supply without first disconnecting the mains current...................

[blindlemon]

a certain Tivo upgrader at one stage suggested replacing one's Tivo power supply as a magic cure for all manner of Tivo ills. [...] I see that lately the upgrader in question has instead moved towards getting people to turn up the blue pot on their power supply first as an alternative to simply ripping out the old power supply and replacing it straight away.Strange that, isn't it?

You would have though that with the spiralling price of PSUs anybody selling them would be more keen than ever to push people into an unnecessary purchase - especially when they have ultra-capitalist monopolistic tendancies :cool:

As for my ever suggesting replacing the PSU as a 'magic cure for all manner of Tivo ills' - please show me the posts. There are a number of situations - including spontaneous reboots - where replacing the PSU is the most sensible option. As I make (and always have made) more profit on drives than PSUs I have no reason to push PSUs any more than anything else.

Once again I find it quite disingenuous for you who has never spent a cent with me but who has benefited numerous times from my free advice on this forum, including throughout your own ridiculously tortuous twin-drive upgrade saga and the 'how should I cut the cable-tie' fiasco during your PSU replacement to be making these kind of remarks.

Once again, have a happy New Year.

[benallenuk]

LATEST!!

I managed to delete nearly all the shows on TiVo apart from 8 Top Gear episodes which I watched yesterday...sad I know.

I tried but failed to backup the 300GB Samsung Drive to an Old 8gb IDE drive I had knocking around.

Using the MFSTOOLS V2 with large drive support from Steve Conrads site I got the IDE drive mounted but came across the same error over and over, no matter what I did. I even tried to use the MFStools Live CDs which supported my SATA drive. The 8GB drive is freshly fdisk'd and formatted as FAT.

Screen Shots of errors below.

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/9233/copyofdsc00383sq7.jpg
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3592/copyofdsc00382gk1.jpg

[mikerr]

hdb: ... 33820 MB ...

Your 300GB drive is only being seen as 33GB ?!

Check your bios/jumper settings ... as hdb is primary slave.

[Cainam]

Not a Linux expert, but as well as the problem MIKERR reports, another problem is the line

mount: /dev/hdc1: unknown device

If it cannot find the CD drive, it will not be able to find the tivo.bak image file to restore from.

I could be wrong, but I was not aware CD drives had partitions as such...there is certain no mention of HDC1 in the screenshot when it lists hdb1 to hdb16 and hdd1.

Try mounting it with hdc instead i.e.
mount /dev/hdc /mnt/dos

[benallenuk]

Silly Me!:rolleyes: I mis-understood the jumper configuration and had somehow put the drive into a 32gig limit state. I removed all the jumpers and it worked first time to my amazement. Silly me!!:rolleyes:

Have sent the HD off to Rexo using Special Delivery Next Day, I'll let you all know when it arrives back.

Thanks for all your help!!:)

[benallenuk]

Well Im well impressed with Samsungs warranty process. Sent the drive off on Wednesday and recieved a replacement on friday. Im now in the process or restoring the image back to the new drive. Cheers for your help.

[Pete77]

Well Im well impressed with Samsungs warranty process. Sent the drive off on Wednesday and recieved a replacement on friday.

Impressive indeed bearing in mind that this was immediately after the xmas shut down period when I doubt that they were sending out any replacement hard drives.